Noobs vs. Vets, Game Over, Noobs are Victorious! Hail Noobs!

[Septimius Severus]

The vet team has conceeded @ turn 20. Thanks to all for your participation. Join us in our new game:

Noobs vs Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge.

Septimius Severus wrote:

"In a victory for noobs everywhere, the intrepid team of fresh young noobs, roundly and soundly defeated the team of seasoned battle-hardened vets, who though they fought valiantly and contested every inch, were ultimately humbled and brought low."

Here are the settings for the game:

Hosting via Llamaserver

Late Age
CBM 1.41c
Teams: 10 Noobs vs 5 Vets
Hosting interval: 36 hour/quickhost, 48 @ 10, 72 @ turn 40 (or by consensus).
Map: The Desert Eye. Fixed starts hand selected and optimized by myself for balance, defense, access, proximity to other team members, etc.
Score graphs: ON
Research: Standard
Indie strength: 6
Victory conditions: No vps/victory, annihilation of opposing team.
Delays: Liberal. Automatically granted provided I receive a PM in time and you post on the thread as well to let everyone know, and there are no major objections.

Teams:

Noobs
Septimius Severus - [R'lyeh]
Lavaere - [Bogarus]
rdonj - [T'ien Ch'i]
Alpine Joe -
Lumen Placidum - [Ulm]
Darloth - [Jomon]
pyg - [Midgard]
Aristander - [Gath]
Amonchakad [Agartha]
Giant Moth - [Man]

GrudgeBringer (standby/alternate)
PsiSoldier (standby/alternate)
Arcturus42 (standby/alternate)
Jachra (standby/alternate)

Noob Forum: Team Noob HQ (http://teamnoob.forumotion.net/forum.htm)

[U]Vets (1 more alternate needed)
Lingchih - [Pangaea]
Iron Hawk - [Abysia]
Evil Homer - [Mictlan]
Big and Scary - [Ermor]
Quantum_Mechani [Pythium]

Zeldor (standby/alternate)

Backup Admin: rdonj

Alternates will be contacted/selected to fill vacanies during the game.

Thanks.
CAESARIMPERATORLVCIVSSEPTIVSSEVERVSPERTINAXAVGVSTV S

[llamabeast]

The CBM mod nations are not any stronger than the vanilla nations, so they won't really help with balance. They might be fun though.

This sounds like an interesting game! I would join it if I had a little more time.

[Tifone]

I'd partecipate gladly, of course on the n00bs side :D

[BesucherXia]

In my personal experience, teams with more than 2 members will make the game very burdensome, as the team members will spend too much time arranging cooperation. (exchange boosters, group gems for GE, assign different strategy, etc.)

Newbies will not clearly understand how important it is to discuss and cooperate with teammates. But I still think it is not a good way to play Dom in big group, even just to the learning aspect. That is to say, noobs can not learn too much by cooperation with other noobs, while the teams of veterans will be far stronger than any noobs' imagination.

So I suggest: let newbies make groups of 2-3 players/team, while the veterans must fight sololy as usual.
This seems to be more attractive at least for me. (Though I have no more time for another game...)

[Apsophos]

I'd like to play this, but I am not really noobish anymore and I am not a vet either.

[Lavaere]

I'd certainly be interested, noob as it would be my first MP game

[rdonj]

I like the idea behind this game :) I'd like to play, I'm not a completely green noob as I've played a fair amount of sp but I've only finished one mp game. There aren't many LA nations I'd be interested in playing though.

I'd prefer 24 hour quickhost at the beginning but I can live with 48. Of the maps you listed I would prefer Cradle, but I think Orania would probably be better suited to the scenarion (wrap around maps drive me crazy). I think a fixed start version should be made though for whatever map is used, to put players on different sides. Or you could put the experienced players in the middle surrounded by the inexperienced players, though honestly I wouldn't do that.

Victory by elimination or surrender sounds good.

I think the 9:3 version would probably work better. Idea: What if the noob team had a more experienced player leading it, coordinating battle plans and there to advise the noobs? This would work better with the 8:4 version. They could also be given a less powerful nation to offset the advantage of having them on the noob team.

[Tifone]

I vote for the 48 hrs qh 'cuz I'm always a little busy.
I agree with rdonj that we need a proper map not to have the n00bs all together and forced to clash - sorrounding the gurus would be great.
The coordinator idea seems a bit difficult because nobody likes getting orders, even if he's a n00b, or seeing that his orders are not obeyed because someone finds (rightly) funnier to do another thing :D

[Trumanator]

What about something Baalz suggested in another thread, a kind of "Cold War" scenario, where you have a few vets who are required to be hostile to one another, and the newbies will sort of coalesce around them as their "sphere of influence" so to speak. Would make for a very interesting game. As far as maps go, personally I would prefer something other than Cradle since I'm currrently playing a game on it already, but anything is fine.

Edit: if you want to use fixed starts, know that Cradle only has 11 land starts and 1 water.

[Tifone]

I'd have the game of SeptSev as it is - and go for the Cold War in another game ;) (to which I'd love to partecipate... damn, we could play that on a real world map! :D Except that the America would be pretty much cut from the rest... )

[Alpine Joe]

I'm interested, in as a noob who has yet to finish a multiplayer game.

I like the cold war idea.

[LumenPlacidum]

I'm new and would love to participate in something like this. I agree that the very large team probably wouldn't work, so the 2v2v2v2v1v1v1v1 is probably a better idea (or the 3v3v3v1v1v1). I'd also be very interested in the Cold War sort of game. It would be awesome playing as the oceanic nations while people on either side work against each other. Of course, it would be nice if it were possible to just ferry over people who could pay you ;).

[darloth]

I'd be interested, I think.

[rdonj]

I don't really see a large team game being that unwieldy personally, you just have to make sure not to step on each other's toes... so as long as you communicate you should be fine. Plus in a big team you have access to all sorts of gems and should be able to spend them very efficiently.

[Micah]

3 on 1 is pretty brutal no matter how you stack the teams, especially so early on before there's much magic available.

[Septimius Severus]

The CBM mod nations are not any stronger than the vanilla nations, so they won't really help with balance. They might be fun though.

This sounds like an interesting game! I would join it if I had a little more time.

I've played with Nehekhara, they did seem to bit over-powered. I wonder why most games don't incorporate them then? If they are not over powered, I mean?

[Septimius Severus]

In my personal experience, teams with more than 2 members will make the game very burdensome, as the team members will spend too much time arranging cooperation. (exchange boosters, group gems for GE, assign different strategy, etc.)

So I suggest: let newbies make groups of 2-3 players/team, while the veterans must fight sololy as usual.
This seems to be more attractive at least for me. (Though I have no more time for another game...)

Part of the reason is to teach us cooperation.

I worry that a team of 2/3 noobs having to contend with other teams of noobs (if that is what your suggestion was) as well as vets might easily be overwhelmed.

[Septimius Severus]

I'm new and would love to participate in something like this. I agree that the very large team probably wouldn't work, so the 2v2v2v2v1v1v1v1 is probably a better idea (or the 3v3v3v1v1v1). I'd also be very interested in the Cold War sort of game. It would be awesome playing as the oceanic nations while people on either side work against each other. Of course, it would be nice if it were possible to just ferry over people who could pay you ;).

Small teams might are also more likely to have to worry about (what if their partner stales, drops, what have you). If not against multiple small teams of noobs, as long as they are not pitted against each other.

[Septimius Severus]

What about something Baalz suggested in another thread, a kind of "Cold War" scenario, where you have a few vets who are required to be hostile to one another, and the newbies will sort of coalesce around them as their "sphere of influence" so to speak. Would make for a very interesting game. As far as maps go, personally I would prefer something other than Cradle since I'm currrently playing a game on it already, but anything is fine.

Edit: if you want to use fixed starts, know that Cradle only has 11 land starts and 1 water.

That cold war scenario thing would end up pitting noobs (as vassals of the vets) against other noobs and that is a bit different than what I had in mind. Nice idea though.

If it were possible, I'd like to pick and choose where I place the nations, so that the noobs would occupy one portion of the map, while the vets the other. 1 water vet would be fine, they should know how to handle themselves, vs land as well.

[Ironhawk]

Doesnt seem like you've really settled on a game format yet, but the idea is interesting, conceptually.

Put me on standby as a vet.

[Trumanator]

Well what I was getting at was the fact that with only one water start, whoever ends up there just gets to sit and build up without being harrassed, until they just burst onto the scene where everyone else has been beating each other bloody. Its just imbalanced for them not to have any water competition.

On a different note, what about a regular free for all team game, but try to have each team consist of a vet plus a newb. It would be like having a mentor. The small teams would make the diplomacy less unwieldly and open to misunderstandings, while people would still have the benefit of playing at least against some vets.

Go ahead and just ignore me if you want, I'm just throwing off ideas here.

[Tifone]

I think all n00bs against all v3ts teams would be funnier. :) But the map must of course be made so that the n00bs don't need to stomp over other n00bs to attack the v3ts, or we're screwed :D

[Septimius Severus]

I think all n00bs against all v3ts teams would be funnier. :) But the map must of course be made so that the n00bs don't need to stomp over other n00bs to attack the v3ts, or we're screwed :D

Thus the need to cooperate, i.e. keeping PD low in provinces bordering friendly team members (should you need to exchange provinces to allow access to the enemy, etc.), allowing each team member access to the sea, the enemy, etc. In the event someone should find themselves landlocked or with access blocked, well there lots different roles and ways to contribute, focusing on developing flying units, stealth, etc.

I'm open to any map suggestions, though I'm leaning toward Cradle with the fixed hand-placed start locations.

[Septimius Severus]

Well what I was getting at was the fact that with only one water start, whoever ends up there just gets to sit and build up without being harrassed, until they just burst onto the scene where everyone else has been beating each other bloody. Its just imbalanced for them not to have any water competition.

On a different note, what about a regular free for all team game, but try to have each team consist of a vet plus a newb. It would be like having a mentor. The small teams would make the diplomacy less unwieldly and open to misunderstandings, while people would still have the benefit of playing at least against some vets.



True, in that case, I'd rather the water nation be a noob, I wouldn't want a vet "bursting onto the scene". I'm open to any other map suggestions though.

[rdonj]

If there is a water nation it should definitely be 8 on 4, since water nations could be very annoying to try and stop from raiding in that situation.

[Evilhomer]

Put me in as a standby for the veteran team, not decided yet if I like the game idea.

The problem in balancing this I belive is the early and late game. Early on it does not take much skill for the noob team to just read a few guides and bust out with some bless strategy and ganging upon the few vets playing (and 8 vs 4 this will be painfull to stop for sure).

In the late game I do believe the vets will have an advantage since they know how to build sc/thugs, what spells to get and how to use them to maximum effect.

[Amonchakad]

Hi guys, I'm new to Dominions 3(i have yet to play a single MP game) but i already got some experience agains the AI,and i'd like to join as a noob :D

Regarding the game,i think the "vet+noob" team would be better (or also vet+2 noobs if there aren't the numbers); we'd be able to learn a lot more.I'm in for any game mode anyway.

[rdonj]

Put me in as a standby for the veteran team, not decided yet if I like the game idea.

The problem in balancing this I belive is the early and late game. Early on it does not take much skill for the noob team to just read a few guides and bust out with some bless strategy and ganging upon the few vets playing (and 8 vs 4 this will be painfull to stop for sure).

In the late game I do believe the vets will have an advantage since they know how to build sc/thugs, what spells to get and how to use them to maximum effect.

Part of this will be negated a bit by the map. If we're going with cradle of dominion, it's a very good map defensively that would make it very hard for the noob team to swarm over the vet team, as the terrain is very restrictive. On Orania that would be a bit easier, but orania has about 21 land provinces per player, and I can guarantee you the noob team will expand slower on a per person basis. Basically with an 8:4 ratio I would expect the noobs to hopefully hold their own in the early game, and then get slaughtered in the late game. At 9:3 I would expect the noob team to press the vet team more in the beginning and possibly be able to challenge them throughout the game. No guarantee there, though.

[Tifone]

Can I innocently ask why the choice of LA if I might? :)

[BigandScary]

I also find the idea interesting, and since I am closer to a vet than a noob, I guess put me on that list as a possible player

[Slobby]

Interesting idea, coming from playing kohan (rts) and my experience there going noob vs vet I think the size of this game isn't quite right. In kohan at the top of my game I could do a 3v1 assuming the 3 were completely clueless, but that is coming from an rts (think on the fly) as opposed to a tbs (time to think your turns through). 2v1 against players that had some idea of what they were doing sometimes wasn't even close. Also there is a unit cap in kohan of 20 companies while in dominions it's open ended (it doesn't take alot of skill to just recruit massive amounts of chaff and swarm and in a game like this numbers mean alot in the early game).

Another thing to consider is that the vet team is in all likely hood going to have to rush to even the playing field. This doesn't necessarily promote a good learning experience as it only shows that one aspect of the game.

I would suggest scaling the size back to 5noobs vs 3vets, on a randomly generated wrap around map with no water provinces, set starting spots, and a no attack/rush rule in effect for the first 14-20 turns. This way every one has time to set up, assuming the noobs get 15 prov each and the vets get 20 prov each and that the vets potentially will be surrounded it should make for a much more interesting and fun game for both the vets and the noobs.

[Septimius Severus]

Can I innocently ask why the choice of LA if I might? :)

The LA emphasis on military might vs magic (coupled with their numerical edge) I thought might give the noobs a bit of a boost as they are often unfamiliar with the magic system. Also, wanted to try another age other than the MA game I've already played.

[Trumanator]

That actually makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't underestimate the edge vets might have on placement and the like though :D

[Septimius Severus]

Interesting idea, coming from playing kohan (rts) and my experience there going noob vs vet I think the size of this game isn't quite right. In kohan at the top of my game I could do a 3v1 assuming the 3 were completely clueless, but that is coming from an rts (think on the fly) as opposed to a tbs (time to think your turns through). 2v1 against players that had some idea of what they were doing sometimes wasn't even close.

Seems 2:1 is definately more balanced early on, I don't want the vets scared away or anything. The vets will need to work together just like the noobs.


I would suggest scaling the size back to 5noobs vs 3vets, on a randomly generated wrap around map with no water provinces, set starting spots, and a no attack/rush rule in effect for the first 14-20 turns. This way every one has time to set up, assuming the noobs get 15 prov each and the vets get 20 prov each and that the vets potentially will be surrounded it should make for a much more interesting and fun game for both the vets and the noobs..

Good ideas, though I worry about a randomly generated map, nightmare scenario where 1 noob ends up surrounded by vets, or even vice versa. Cradle seems to be a fairly balanced map (in terms of expansion, access, defense,etc.) though I'm still looking to see if I can find something more suited to team play.

If everyone would like a no attack/rush rule that is fine, though it is probably not important on a map with evenly placed starting locations.

Before starting, the vet team will have the right to review and reject any member of the noob team (check main post) on account of non-noobness. I want it to be as fair as possible for the vets.

[Trumanator]

the point of set starts is to avoid someone getting surrounded. Also, another problem with cradle is are the numerous chokepoints, it might be easy for the vets to fortify and weather the n00bs' assault.

[Septimius Severus]

Yep, though chokepoints can work either way.

Voting will begin soon (check first post) once we get a few more vets to commit/signup. We can then proceed to nation selection.

[Ironhawk]

Speaking as a vet, rushing is certainly an option but its not actually a good one. Because you can only rush one nation at a time and if you are facing 2-1 or 3-1 odds then by the time you get to the enemy capital, you will already have lost your own.

What is more likely to happen is that the noobs will rush the vets. Because in the early game, until lots of magic and summons come into play, combat is fairly straightforward and gameplay experience will not give you too much of an edge. Its only when there are lots of spells researched and thugs and whatnot summoned where vets will really outshine more inexperienced players.

[rdonj]

I agree with Ironhawk. The noobs have the advantage early on due to numbers and cumulative income. The longer the game lasts, the better the vets chances of winning grow. So a map that provides strong defensive advantages and chokepoints will heavily favor the veteran team, and highly diminish the numerical advantage the noobs get. I think a map along the lines of orania with pre-set start locations is probably ideal for this setup, though certainly a random map could work also. Just as long as it is mostly open to prevent people from being boxed in and unable to fight the other team.

[Septimius Severus]

I agree with Ironhawk. The noobs have the advantage early on due to numbers and cumulative income. The longer the game lasts, the better the vets chances of winning grow. So a map that provides strong defensive advantages and chokepoints will heavily favor the veteran team, and highly diminish the numerical advantage the noobs get. I think a map along the lines of orania with pre-set start locations is probably ideal for this setup, though certainly a random map could work also. Just as long as it is mostly open to prevent people from being boxed in and unable to fight the other team.

Yep, having a balanced map with a decent defense would be key, what do you think of any of the others I listed on the main post? Alexander, Symmetry, Cradle?

[Trumanator]

I think symmetry looks like a cool map, but in this case I would say its unsuitable. The design of the map seems to look like it would isolate some of the noobs on the same half as the vets, where they could get ganked before all the others could pile on.

Could you provide a link to Alexander?

[Zeldor]

I may consider joining that, being in one team with Ironhawk is tempting. I'm not a vet yet, but after winning Kingmaker, I'm far from noob stage now.

[Septimius Severus]

I'll add you to our list of standby/alternates and otherwise undecided vets.

It looks like Orania and Glory of the Gods don't have fixed starts, so I'm going to drop them from consideration in the main post, you may still vote for them when the time comes of course.

Added a link for the Alexander map to the main post, the mad war version (the version I'm considering using) is viewable from the llamaserver map and mod browser.

More brave vets needed, ask around!

[Zeldor]

Fixed starts can always be added to the .map file. Assuming no one takes LA MArignon or LA Atlantis that is.

[rdonj]

Alexander - Might be possible but it seems too messy for what I'm envisioning.
Glory of the Gods - Probably a better choice than alexander. You'd have to array the noobs around the top and left side of the map to give them enough space, with the vets in the bottom right area. Problem is I think you'd have trouble leaving routes for all the noobs to attack the vets without stepping on each other's toes.
Symmetry - I agree with trumanator here, at least one of the noobs is going to be left largely on their own to deal with at least one of the vets early on. I wouldn't give that player much chance.

This is why I think Orania is a good choice, you can place people however you want and there are no natural funnels that will hamper logistics. On the other hand, maybe orania is a little too open, and a random map with a few mountaints would be better.

It wouldn't be very hard to make up a preset start version of whatever map is chosen, so really that part isn't a big deal.

[Ironhawk]

Yeah adding fixed start positions is a breeze. Just pick the map that you feel works best geographically.

[quantum_mechani]

I'd consider joining, but only if we were to use a very packed map (I have enough big map games).

[Septimius Severus]

I'd consider joining, but only if we were to use a very packed map (I have enough big map games).

What map did you have in mind? I intend to use something ranging from 200-300 provinces for 12 players, if that's what you were refering to in terms of packed. In the meantime I'll add you to the vets as standby/alternate. You can opt in or out once the results of the vote are posted.

[Lingchih]

I'll join. I'm a vet. Remind me now, through PM, please. I don't check this thread all the time.

[Septimius Severus]

This is why I think Orania is a good choice, you can place people however you want and there are no natural funnels that will hamper logistics. On the other hand, maybe orania is a little too open, and a random map with a few mountaints would be better.

It wouldn't be very hard to make up a preset start version of whatever map is chosen, so really that part isn't a big deal.

Well if I can add preset starts then I'll add Orania and Glory back to the main post for consideration. You guys will need to either point me to a tutorial or explain the process to me though.

Tell me, is it possible on any map to specify exactly where a particular land or water nation starts?

[Lingchih]

Yes, you can preset the start positions of each nation. I don't know how, since I have never modded. But I know it can be done.

Hmm. Lazy me. Never modded a game. Perhaps. I should get busy.

[rdonj]

All that you need to do, is open the .map file and add "#specstart <nation nbr> <province nbr>" for every province/nation you want to use. I've not done it before but it would probably look something like this:

#specstart 1 1
#specstart 2 2
#specstart 3 3
#specstart 4 4
etc

It might want the <> around the numbers but I don't think so. In any case that is not so hard, you just have to know the nation numbers (they're in edi's database) and pick appropriate start provinces.

[quantum_mechani]

I'd consider joining, but only if we were to use a very packed map (I have enough big map games).

What map did you have in mind? I intend to use something ranging from 200-300 provinces for 12 players, if that's what you were refering to in terms of packed. In the meantime I'll add you to the vets as standby/alternate. You can opt in or out once the results of the vote are posted.That I'd call too big, I was thinking something under 10 provs per player.

[Tifone]

Ouch, sorry, I have to exit the game. I was expecting to be thrown off another game soon but looks like it'll last a bit more. I'll sub eventually if needed, but I can't afford the time to start another game :(
Sorry, guys. Have fun :)

[Septimius Severus]

Ouch, sorry, I have to exit the game. I was expecting to be thrown off another game soon but looks like it'll last a bit more. I'll sub eventually if needed, but I can't afford the time to start another game :(
Sorry, guys. Have fun :)

No prob, I'll move you to standby, I'd like to have 8 noobs in and 4 in the alternate/standby slots as well as 4 vets (decided) and 2 in the alternate slots before we begin voting (18 all together, check the main post regularly). Almost there.

[Septimius Severus]

That I'd call too big, I was thinking something under 10 provs per player.

What map did you have in mind exactly? Go ahead and let me know which one you think most approriate, I'm sure your opionion will carry much weight when it comes time to vote on one.

The only thing to remember with such a small map is that hostilities will break out much sooner, perhaps making a rush much more likely.

[Trumanator]

Well if one of the vets makes a rush he's opening himself up to be smacked down by the combined forces of 2 or 3 noobs.

[Septimius Severus]

Well if one of the vets makes a rush he's opening himself up to be smacked down by the combined forces of 2 or 3 noobs.

That is certainly a possibility.

[Lingchih]

Nah, Noobs will side with Vets. Almost a certainty.

[Trumanator]

I thought the entire purpose of this game was to pit n00bs against vets? Thus, they will hopefully defend their own to preserve their advantage.

[Septimius Severus]

I thought the entire purpose of this game was to pit n00bs against vets? Thus, they will hopefully defend their own to preserve their advantage.


That's right, that is and was my original intention, to pit very green noobs against the best of the best. Some of you though, have suggested breaking up the game into competing combinations of noob and vet teams, but I'll let everyone decide in the upcoming vote. I personally don't think an 8 man noob team will be a problem, but I want to be fair to everyone.

[Ironhawk]

I think he was joking :)

[Trumanator]

lol, my bad :p

[Lingchih]

Yes. I was joking. Don't take my posts too seriously. I am usually joking about something in them.

[Septimius Severus]

As we've gotten about as many players as we are likely to get at least for now, I'll go ahead and conduct the vote/poll. Everyone listed on the main/first post please send me a single PM with your vote on the following three game options/settings.

1. Your Map Preference, or indicate NP for no preference.

2. Teams: Either the original 8 noobs vs 4 vets idea, or as some have suggested 3x3x3x3 (4 competing teams of 2 noobs and 1 vet each), which would necessitate we rename the game Noobs and Vets

3. Whether or not to allow inclusion of LA CBM mod nations (yes or no). Keep in mind, that if we use them, everyone will need to download a copy of whatever nations players are using.

When the results are in, they'll be posted on the main post and at the end of this thread. Those on the fence may opt in or out, and if we've got enough participants, nation selection will begin.

In the meantime, anyone else wishing to join may do so, still likely to need alternates/replacements.

Thanks.

[Zeldor]

1. NP
2. 1st option only, I'm not interested at all in mixed teams
3. nah, what for? we have enough normal nations

[Apsophos]

Actually I would prefer not to play in this game.

[BigandScary]

1. NP
2. Either is fine
3. No additions please

[rdonj]

Technically we're supposed to be Pming him here... no big deal though, really.

[Evilhomer]

1. NP (maybe some balanced map is best with fixed start positions for the vets and for the newbs)

2. 1st option

3. No additions

[Septimius Severus]

Actually I would prefer not to play in this game.

I'll remove you, no problem.

[Septimius Severus]

Technically we're supposed to be Pming him here... no big deal though, really.

Yeah, I prefer PM's but whatayagonnado.

[Ironhawk]

1. No preference
2. 8x4
3. I dont understand what you are asking. If you are asking if I want CBM, then yes. If you asking if I want additional special modded nations, then no.

[Lingchih]

1. No preference
2. 8x4
3. I dont understand what you are asking. If you are asking if I want CBM, then yes. If you asking if I want additional special modded nations, then no.

Same vote as Ironhawk.

[Septimius Severus]

This game should prove interesting.

A good way of allowing the vets to show how good they really are, and noobs can prove they are worth their salt by taking on such formidable, unstoppable opponents. :)

[Aristander]

1. Alexander

2. No Preference.
Option 1. I get to pound on a vet (sweet revenge).
Option 2. I get to learn tips from a vet. A Win Win.

3. No additions, looking forward to learning more about the late age.

[Septimius Severus]

looking forward to learning more about the late age.

Me too.

[Septimius Severus]

Results of the 11 votes recieved are reflected on the main post. Choose your nations now, first come, first serve. I claim R'leyh though. Once we've got all nations in (which will also reflect your decidedness), we'll begin pretender uploads.

Thanks

[Alpine Joe]

I would like Utgard

[rdonj]

T'ien Ch'i please.

[Trumanator]

I'll hold off and fill in if we have any gaps.

[Trumanator]

FYI, 1.41 has an issue with LA agartha's blindlords having A8 magic. Either we could hold off till 1.42 or we could all just dive in and fix our mods.

[Aristander]

I would like Gath

[Lingchih]

Pangaea please.

[BigandScary]

I prefer Ermor, but if people are against having them, I'll be Midgard.

[Septimius Severus]

I prefer Ermor, but if people are against having them, I'll be Midgard.

I haven't mentioned any restrictions in terms of nations, I don't see why you can't have Ermor, that is unless anyone has objections or perhaps people think it better it go to a noob.

Depending upon how many vets are active and decided (possible 5), we may need to increase the number of noobs to 10 to compensate, or one vet can go to standby, we'll see.

With regard to the error Trumantor mentioned, if the fix is easy, I suppose we all could do it, or if no one chooses Argartha, it won't be an issue, or we could go back to the earlier CBM, or wait for a newer one. Didn't plan to begin the hosting anyway till Friday next week (Feb. 6), as I'll be out of town on a business conference. But we could start sooner if we get all nations and pretenders in before then.

[rdonj]

If it matters, Zeldor has fixed the errors in a version he made up for the madness game. If necessary we could use that version.

I would rather the vet team not have an LA ermor, but I'm not going to worry about it too much, especially with R'lyeh on our team.

Team Noob: A lot of our chance of success relies on organization. We are going to want to communicate as to where we are and what we're doing every turn. This means we need a way to talk to each other during the turn, therefore relying on the in-game messaging system isn't going to work, unless we're excessively organized.

I'm not going to try to enforce a specific strategy for the game or anything, but I think we should commit from the beginning to declaring what provinces we're taking every turn and sharing as much intel as possible. To that end, I think it would be best if we all had each other's email addresses for ease of communication. If people would rather we stick to pming instead that's fine, but it would make it slightly more difficult to do team-wide communication, and possibly give away information to the enemy if we accidentally message the wrong person.

Whatever method of communication we end up using, it would really be best to try to check on it at least once every turn so the rest of the team knows what's going on. We absolutely do NOT want any early blunders with our own armies running into each other. Anyway, if you could please state your preference in the thread that would be great.

I of course would prefer emails, for ease of mass-messaging.

[Trumanator]

No preference. I'm an alternate anyway.

[ano]

I of course would prefer emails, for ease of mass-messaging.
Maybe skype (or other) conference-chats will help you. I think it is a good option.

[rdonj]

I of course would prefer emails, for ease of mass-messaging.
Maybe skype (or other) conference-chats will help you. I think it is a good option.

You're right, I should have mentioned that too. A conference chat like you said or a private room in IRC are also possibilities. Though with something like that it does require us all to be connected at the same time. In the early phase of the game I'm not sure if we'll need to go quite to that level of organized communication, but it would definitely help when things get going in earnest. Thanks for the suggestion Ano.

[Trumanator]

Well the obvious first step is finding out peoples' time zone so we know how tough it will be to get together for IRC or what have you.
Just to start off, I'm US Pacific TZ

[Aristander]

I have no objection to email.

[rdonj]

Well the obvious first step is finding out peoples' time zone so we know how tough it will be to get together for IRC or what have you.
Just to start off, I'm US Pacific TZ

US central time zone here. Not that I necessarily act like it, I tend to be around more later in the day than early. From 7 am-4 in the afternoon, for example, is pretty much the worst possible time to try and reach me.

Edit: I also want to have a little bit of a discussion with Team Noob™ before we get going to get an overall feeling of what each player is going to try to do. Again, I'm not going to try to completely plan a cohesive strategy for us. I don't know enough about all the nations for one thing, and I think it would probably be less fun for everyone. But I have a specific idea in mind about how I'm going to play, and I'd like to see if anyone else has specific intentions so hopefully we can figure out ways to support each other.

[ano]

Just thought of it...
Probably the best option for you will be organizing a temporary forum board. There're plenty of free board services available nowadays. It was very useful for cooperation in times I played another PBEM-game, Mafia and I'm sure it will be more convenient for you than both e-mail and chat because you will have full message history easily available and won't have to be online at the same time to talk.

[rdonj]

That's a great idea. Any suggestions for something that would be super easy to set up?

[BigandScary]

Well, nevermind about the Ermor thing. I forgot that I am an alternate, so it doesn't really matter.

[ano]

That's a great idea. Any suggestions for something that would be super easy to set up?
Well, I am Russian and I always used russian free board services such as www.borda.ru. Probably you want English as the language of your forum so it won't suit you. But I'm sure there're such services

[ano]

Here are some of the options I found:
http://www.forumotion.com/
http://www.createforum.com/tos.html
http://www.forumer.com/

and many others - just ask Google;)

[darloth]

I would like Jomon please

In regards to communication, I'm fine with forums or email or IM software for that sort of thing (I have AIM and MSN and ICQ), but... and not implying that any of the vets would stoop so LOW as to do such a thing... *grin* if you go for forums, a passworded one might make sense, if we're going to be putting details of strategy and such on it.

[Zeldor]

What are the teams after all? And which CBM version are we using?

[Trumanator]

Sorry for the lateness, but I'm just not feeling too motivated for this. I would like to withdraw. Hopefully since I'm an "alternate" this isn't a problem. I think though that being in 3 team games at once might be more than even a history major has time for. :)

[rdonj]

I would like Jomon please

In regards to communication, I'm fine with forums or email or IM software for that sort of thing (I have AIM and MSN and ICQ), but... and not implying that any of the vets would stoop so LOW as to do such a thing... *grin* if you go for forums, a passworded one might make sense, if we're going to be putting details of strategy and such on it.

Oh don't worry, I'm definitely going to make the forum private. I have a reasonable degree of trust for the players here, but there would always be questions about the sanctity of our communications if it was left open.

[rdonj]

Okay, we have a forum now. I'm going to work a little bit on it and then I'm going to send pms to everyone in team noob and tell you where you can find the forum. If it is possible to do it how I want, I will also give you a unique password that you will have to post before I will allow you into strategic command. If not, well, I'll see how I have to do it.

PLEASE sign up for that forum using your name for this forum. I don't want to have to guess who you are and keeping names the same will reduce confusion as to who is saying what. Also, using a signature or something else that is displayed in every post to say which nation you are would be helpful once we get those straightened out as well.

[Septimius Severus]

What are the teams after all? And which CBM version are we using?

The teams are listed on the main post. We'll be using the latest version of CBM, whichever one that is, which I thought was 1.41, but may have changed since then. Whatever version we use, I'd like it to be relatively bug free.

[Septimius Severus]

Well, nevermind about the Ermor thing. I forgot that I am an alternate, so it doesn't really matter.

You'll be in the game, if I don't hear from Ironhawk and Zeldor. Who's knows, we may even have 5 vets if everyone responds with their nation choices.

Trumanator, no prob, I was thinking that perhaps you might have bitten off more than you could chew.

[rdonj]

Well, nevermind about the Ermor thing. I forgot that I am an alternate, so it doesn't really matter.

You'll be in the game, if I don't hear from Ironhawk and Zeldor. Who's knows, we may even have 5 vets if everyone responds with their nation choices.

Trumanator, no prob, I was thinking that perhaps you might have bitten off more than you could chew.

Might want to pm them and see if they're still on board.

[rdonj]

Alright! The forum is done being configured I think, so I'm sending out pms now. Check your inboxes shortly.

[Lingchih]

Alright! The forum is done being configured I think, so I'm sending out pms now. Check your inboxes shortly.

Can I join your forum?

[rdonj]

Sure! After we finish the game :)

PMs have been sent now to all players who are not currently listed as standby/alternate. If anyone drops out I will send a pm to whoever takes their place. If someone doesn't want to use the new forum that's fine, but be sure and tell me how you're going to want to communicate so we can make sure you're getting all the information also.

[Septimius Severus]

Sure! After we finish the game :)

PMs have been sent now to all players who are not currently listed as standby/alternate. If anyone drops out I will send a pm to whoever takes their place. If someone doesn't want to use the new forum that's fine, but be sure and tell me how you're going to want to communicate so we can make sure you're getting all the information also.

An interesting idea for inter-turn communication amongst team members, should the need arise. A PM (with e-mail notification on) or intergame message will probably suffice, at least early in the game, but this should put to rest any issues anyone has with poor communications due to team size. It is good to see such fervor and interest in the game.

[Lingchih]

Gee, I wish we vets were as organized as you noobs. I have not even heard from the other vets. Are they actually going to play?

[rdonj]

Your account has been activated septimius, I'll see about getting you into the user group in a fwe minutes. You didn't post as guest with your username and the password I pmed you though, so if that wasn't you, tell me now :P

You're right, for the first several turns it should be completely unnecessary. But hopefully it will make communication run a lot more smoothly when we do need it. Everyone will be able to see everyone else's input in one spot. I figure, communication is going to be one of the key hurdles we have to pass in order to have a fighting chance in this game, so anything that makes it easier and run more smoothly is worth exploring. Setting up the forum was pretty easy, I only spent about an hour configuring everything for our purposes. So it wasn't a big deal :) I just hope that when the time comes, it gets used by enough of us to help.

I still don't expect to win but I want to put on a good show ;)

Edit: Thanks again for the forum suggestion Ano, that was brilliant.

[rdonj]

Gee, I wish we vets were as organized as you noobs. I have not even heard from the other vets. Are they actually going to play?

Fear my, um, pushy organizational skills. Maybe you guys should set up a board for yourselves, and after the game is over we can open them up to public viewing for a little bit of post-game analysis :)

You or septimius might want to contact the rest of the vet team, lingchih, just to make sure who still intends to play. It would be a shame not to get this going.

And we still need more nation submissions. Team Noob, I believe we have 3 of 8 nations picked now?

Edit: I take that back, we have 5.

[Septimius Severus]

Your account has been activated septimius, I'll see about getting you into the user group in a fwe minutes. You didn't post as guest with your username and the password I pmed you though, so if that wasn't you, tell me now :P


That was me, no worries.

We've got 4 noobs and 2 vets (including Big and Scary a possible Ermor) with nations picked so far.

Still waiting on Zeldor, and Ironhawk among the vets.

[rdonj]

You should now be able to view the hidden forum. Please tell me if it works.

[Lingchih]

Well, I guess we Vets don't need a board. We know what we have to do. I wish the remaining Vets would sign in though.

[Evilhomer]

Sign me up with Marignon, blood and fire all the way. As a note I am slightly against the idea of including Rlyeh and Ermor in a game like this.

In a normal game usually rlyeh and ermor is kept somewhat in check due to people teaming up against them, since this is not the case these two nations might be overpowered (also I am against a lone water nation being able to goble up all the water without anyone able to stop him). Anyway, its not a big deal but I thought I would mention this.

[rdonj]

The dom effects could be pretty annoying to deal with too.

[Evilhomer]

hmm, just remembered I am playing mari in another game starting up, switch me to agartha.

[BigandScary]

I would like to make one statement in the defense of Ermor. Ermor's greatest strength is in playing opposing players off against one another. Most players don't want to invade Ermor, so they sit idly by while Ermor swallows up their weaker neighbors. Ermor survives by making alliances to secure their borders, then praying on non-allied players. I know this because I almost won with them in the BAG last year, only losing because the other three players joined forces against me. While Ermor is often hindered by being in fixed alliances, meaning it has to hold back its dominion and be careful how it opperates, it is also weak in the face of allied groups, because they present a force that can exploit all of Ermor's weaknesses while protecting their own.
I just like to play Ermor, I enjoy them. Not because they are a powerhouse, as they have been repeatedly nerfed, but becaus ethey are fun, until micromanagement sets in.

[LumenPlacidum]

I wish to try my hand at Ulm - Black Forest.

Oh, and I'm in US Eastern time zone (GMT-5).

[Septimius Severus]

Sign me up with Marignon, blood and fire all the way. As a note I am slightly against the idea of including Rlyeh and Ermor in a game like this.

In a normal game usually rlyeh and ermor is kept somewhat in check due to people teaming up against them, since this is not the case these two nations might be overpowered (also I am against a lone water nation being able to goble up all the water without anyone able to stop him). Anyway, its not a big deal but I thought I would mention this.

Agartha you shall have. The way the map is, it works out to a bit more than 20 provinces per player, there are only 20 water provinces, I was considering giving the Vets a water nation too, but I thought that a noob might easily and quickly be defeated that way (it only be ten provinces per water nation). I don't think it will be an issue. Remember too, I know nothing about playing Rlyeh, I'm sure vets can win with any nation they choose. :)

[rdonj]

Lumen, please post on the other forum with your unique password so I can move you to the group that can see the hidden forum.

I'm going to change the forum to automatically accept new applications, since the way I've been doing it seems to have confused everyone but me. For future reference: Register, then post in the guest forum with your unique password. I will then allow you to see the other forum as soon as I check my email. Thank you.

And I can see how ermor wouldn't be as big a deal as normal here... at least in a way. Because your allies would undoubtedly not be very happy to have a strong ermor destroying the landscape. Well, unless they had a strategy planned around it. If you want to play ermor I probably don't personally have a problem with it.

Edit: Okay, automatic activation is done. So feel free to register whenever.

[Lavaere]

I really don't mind who I am, a random from what remains is good for me.

[Ironhawk]

I'm toying around with playing Abysia, if you can believe that!

However, I would like to reserve Mictlan as well if you'll allow it, pending more conversations with the rest of the vet team.

[Septimius Severus]

I'm toying around with playing Abysia, if you can believe that!

However, I would like to reserve Mictlan as well if you'll allow it, pending more conversations with the rest of the vet team.

That's fine, though I would like everyone decided upon something as soon as possible. I was hoping to create the game and start pretender uploading before I go out of town on Tuesday (2/3). But that may have to wait till I get back on Thursday or Friday, depending upon how fast people get back to me on nation choice.

I've kept the pace slow and relaxed, and will continue to do so as I'm pretty busy and I want players who will be in it for the long haul, but we do need to get the game off and running soon.

We've got enough vets to begin, but I'm still short a noob who's not been in contact, Therefore, I'm switching in a noob alternate, so we'll have enough to start pretender uploads by Monday night.

[Septimius Severus]

Assuming the server cooperates that is.

[Amonchakad]

Sorry for the delay, I was quite busy in the weekend.
I suppose i'll just stay in as a possible alternate, now.
Oh,i almost forgot...if i'll still be able to join from the start,i'd like Pythium.

[pyg]

Noob reporting in. I'll take Man I guess or if another choice might go better, I'm open. I'm really new to LA (haven't even looked at most of them) so I'm open to guidance here.

[Ironhawk]

pyg is in the unique position of overhearing a lot of our plans from IRC, too. Inside intel!!!

[rdonj]

:shock:!

Quick pyg, to the noob cave!

[rdonj]

Okay, nevermind the password thing, it's a pretty redundant measure as it is. I'm just going to put people in now.

[rdonj]

Alpine joe is the only one who hasn't registered on the other forum. AJoe, you out there? Please let me know if you're not going to sign up, I want to know beforehand how we're doing things in case I need to send you information differently from others. Also sending you a pm, please respond.

[Septimius Severus]

I'm going to delay pretender uploading till Thursday night or Friday as I'm awaiting nation selection from a few people and there's a good possibility we'll have enough to begin with 10 noobs vs 5 vets. But that will be the max. Always accepting alternates though.

[pyg]

Ok I made a snap choice picking Man and I would like to switch to Midgard which seems still available.

[Lavaere]

Never played them before, but I'll try Bogarus

[Ironhawk]

BTW - it hasnt been discussed here but we were talking with evilhomer in IRC and I'm pretty sure he is taking Mictlan.

[quantum_mechani]

I know settings have been more less decided on, but I was talking with Ironhawk about them and it seems like things may be a little out of whack. With Orania, we are looking at around 18 provinces per player... that is an awful lot of space and makes rushing quite difficult.

That's a situation that would seem to over-favor the vets, generally much faster expanding vs indies, and more time to reach the magic to knock out the newbie players. That's apart from the sheer tedium of playing it out on such a large map, regardless of whop is winning.

Anyway, if we really are using this map I think a few more newbie slots are in order. However, I would advise instead switching to the desert eye, 10 provinces per player is still very reasonable.

[Ironhawk]

LOL, QM ninja'd me. Didnt know he was posting...

So, QM and I were talking about the map and it has 280 provinces, right? 20 water. With 15 players, that means that each player will get about 18 or so provinces to themselves. That means that its going to be a long time before nations even encounter each other. Probably not even until the end of the first year - and thats if you are really pushing for it.

And... basically you guys just wont win in a situation like this. Every turn you let us survive means that we are that much closer to reaching some dominanting spell or summon. I think we should use a smaller map. QM wants to do 8-10 provs/player. I was thinking for something more in a middle ground like 12-14, so we'd still have some breathing room.

Either way we are gonna need a new map

[Lingchih]

Desert Eye is cool with me. It's a good map that everyone knows, as well.

[rdonj]

Well... desert eye is open enough to satisfy me. I'm not quite sure how we'd place people best to avoid cutting people out, but I think it's doable. If it works for everyone else it works for me.

I agree it's unlikely our team is going to win if the game lasts too long. Unfortunately it seems most of the good early nations are in the hands of the vet team, so we may be in for a bit of an uphill battle ;)

[Lingchih]

Yes, prepare for a nasty rush, you noobophiles. Still, it's basically 2 vs 1, right? So us vets could have some problems.

[rdonj]

Pretty much, though as it stands we need another noob to meet the desired ratio. Somehow our numbers don't give me much comfort though.

[Ironhawk]

Stay organized, be aggressive, dont let your morale break and you'll do ok :)

Who is the last noob?

[rdonj]

Well, tifone is if he's still interested in playing. Otherwise we don't have enough signed up to field 10 noobs. Plus I still haven't heard from alpine joe, so he may be out as well.

[Tifone]

Sorry, I'm at my maximum MP capacity and under heavy exams session at the moment :(

[darloth]

I may be able to scrounge up another. We shall see.

Edit: Yep - He's registering for the forums now, username of "Giant Moth". Still in the registration queue at the moment but he says he'd be interested, so if you need another for the noob side feel free to add him to the list. He's new, just got the full game but has experience with the demo and a couple of singleplayer games experience.

[Giant Moth]

Oh hey, I just got my account activated.

I'm darloths friend, and I'd like to join the game on the noob side, if the spot is still open. Have played a bit of singleplayer, but I got most fun out of the game by playing the demo in multiplayer.

[Septimius Severus]

In the original votes, the majority of people had no preference with regard to map, the two that were mentioned most were Orania or Alexander, so I went with Orania.

I know QM and most of the vets favor a smaller map, however as I've mentioned, a smaller map makes rushing more likely. In my opionion though the noobs have numbers on their side, their inexperience makes them more susceptable to being overwhelmed early.

Further, while the vets will have more time on a larger map, so too will the noobs, who'll also have more time to learn and amass forces.

I generally favor larger maps, with time for research and expansion, I want to see what the vets come up with, and I'm not in any rush, and am often busy anyway (which is why I won't get into more than two games at once). Short rush type games won't give us noobs a chance to get research accomplished, and to reach the more powerful spells. Our advantage in numbers will not decrease, regardless of how long the game goes, it will only increase, and provide up more time for coordination and communication as well.

However, I want everyone to be satisfied and everyones voice to be heard, so I'd allow a revote on map preference if it comes to that, though I'd prefer not delay the game any further.

Septimius Severus

[Septimius Severus]

Oh hey, I just got my account activated.

I'm darloths friend, and I'd like to join the game on the noob side, if the spot is still open. Have played a bit of singleplayer, but I got most fun out of the game by playing the demo in multiplayer.

Have a look at the main post and pick a nation not already choosen.

[Ironhawk]

I'm not going to insist on a new map being picked - I just wanted to state publicly that I think a bigger map favors the vets a lot. If people are fine with it tho, I certainly won't complain :)

[Giant Moth]

Have a look at the main post and pick a nation not already choosen.

I'll play man then, they seem interesting enough.

[quantum_mechani]

I know QM and most of the vets favor a smaller map, however as I've mentioned, a smaller map makes rushing more likely. In my opionion though the noobs have numbers on their side, their inexperience makes them more susceptable to being overwhelmed early.

I have a very hard time seeing a bigger map as better for newbies. Individually, perhaps, they are in more danger early, but as a team I think early game is their only window. Once the vets reach a certain level of magic research, if their gold and gem income has not been crippled, I believe it will likely be possible to handle almost indefinitely sized. This is of course is not factoring in newbies wising up during the game, but you can only learns so much in the course of one game.

As far as a revote, I'd point out that the people playing now is a different set than voted the first time, and some that didn't vote did not realize how thinly spread the players would be on such a huge map.

[rdonj]

I know QM and most of the vets favor a smaller map, however as I've mentioned, a smaller map makes rushing more likely. In my opionion though the noobs have numbers on their side, their inexperience makes them more susceptable to being overwhelmed early.

I have a very hard time seeing a bigger map as better for newbies. Individually, perhaps, they are in more danger early, but as a team I think early game is their only window. Once the vets reach a certain level of magic research, if their gold and gem income has not been crippled, I believe it will likely be possible to handle almost indefinitely sized. This is of course is not factoring in newbies wising up during the game, but you can only learns so much in the course of one game.

As far as a revote, I'd point out that the people playing now is a different set than voted the first time, and some that didn't vote did not realize how thinly spread the players would be on such a huge map.

I about halfway agree. I do prefer larger maps myself, and I would like to see the game get far enough that at least some of the stronger magic starts coming into play. With the desert eye map it is very likely we'll lose a few noobs by the end of the second year. But we'll have hurt the vets a lot more than we will on a larger map like orania. Orania being a less cramped map would allow us to help each other easier, and would almost certainly allow us all to survive long enough to start seeing some of the stronger magic come into play. But I do admit it is a lot more likely for us to lose on that map.

While I would like to win I also want everyone to have fun, and I'd be more inclined to play the map that appeals to more people's sense of fun than the map that will allow us the best chance of victory. Of course, if more people think winning is fun, that's a win-win ;)

[quantum_mechani]

I'm of the opinion more challenge is fun. ;)

I really don't think a tedious late game stomp down would be much fun for either side.

[rdonj]

No, probably not. It's much more fun when the fighting is hard, but closely matched.

[Lingchih]

Umm, could we decide on a map, and start this thing? The endless speculation of the outcome is getting a bit boring.

[Amonchakad]

It looks like Severus has yet to see it,so i'll just restate: I'm taking Pythium,if that's ok.

[llamabeast]

If I may poke my nose in uninvited, I'd also suggest a smaller map would be good. 18 provinces per player is on the large side in any case to my mind, and like the vets say, their advantage will increase with map size.

[rdonj]

I believe septimius said elsewhere that he was intending to get the game set up on friday. As for the map, I do not care too much either way. I suspect it would go better with desert eye, but septimius seems to favor orania. If that's the decision I'm willing to go with it. We've taken a pretty long time and a lot of pages getting this game organized, it would be best if we could get started soon.

[Ironhawk]

It looks like Severus has yet to see it,so i'll just restate: I'm taking Pythium,if that's ok.

Amon - QM is already playing Pythium. And Evilhomer is playing Mictlan so that frees up Agartha if they are interesting to you

Lingchih - the host is away until tomorrow I believe. And anyway, speculating on the win is what this game is all about! It is, for all intents and purposes, a duel.

[Lingchih]

Septimius. Are we using CBM 1.4.1C? That's the one I presently have installed and am using in another game.

[Septimius Severus]

There are benefits and drawbacks to both larger and smaller maps.

Orania = 279 provinces (avg 18 per player, with 1 water nation).
The Desert eye = 125 provinces (avg 8 per player, with possibly 2 water nations).

Rather than force a force a re-vote (and make everyone choose between the two maps) and taking into account Llamabeast's suggestion of the smaller map, and assuming there are no major objections, we shall use The Desert Eye. I'll just need to reconfigure starting locations.

For balance purposes, though, it might be best for one of the vets to switch to Atlantis, otherwise I'll have as the single water nation, 17 provinces to myself. I won't force it, but it would even everything out and provide me with some competition.

Once you vets decide we can begin pretender uploads.

Edit: It would have been nice to get a chance to learn mid and late game magic without having to worry about hostilities so soon, or rushing, but oh well...

[Lingchih]

I don't think we should worry about you being the only water nation Sept. We can get into the water when need be.

Any clarification on which version of CBM we are using?

[Septimius Severus]

I don't think we should worry about you being the only water nation Sept. We can get into the water when need be.

Any clarification on which version of CBM we are using?

QM has suggested either 1.4 or 1.41b (which fixes the Agartha bug). I think it'd be better to go with 1.41b, if I can locate it, should you wish to download it, I'll post a link on the main page, assuming it's not the same one on the main page of the CBM 1.41 thread. I think though, the one on the server is the one that really matters, so it shouldn't make much difference.

[Lingchih]

I have no idea what the differences are in the iterations of the CBM 1.4.1 mod. I'll just use the one I have. It's quite confusing. Or, if you post a link to the one to use on the initial post, I will download and use that one.

Guess I could actually read the mod post for it.

[Septimius Severus]

I don't think we should worry about you being the only water nation Sept. We can get into the water when need be.

I'm definately on the greener side, so can I assume you speak for all the other Vets?

[quantum_mechani]

For balance purposes, though, it might be best for one of the vets to switch to Atlantis, otherwise I'll have as the single water nation, 17 provinces to myself. I won't force it, but it would even everything out and provide me with some competition.

Late era, Atlantis starts on land. LA Mictlan is actually about as good as LA Atlantis for going underwater.

[Lingchih]

I don't think we should worry about you being the only water nation Sept. We can get into the water when need be.

I'm definately on the greener side, so can I assume you speak for all the other Vets?

Yes, I speak for all the other vets. Except for QM, who outranks me. And Evilhomer, he's better too. Hmm.... Actually, they all outrank me... better shut up now.

[quantum_mechani]

Hmm, if you think there won't be a chance to use high-tech magic, there is the option of easy research. Of course this would be somewhat similar to a bigger map size as far as a vet advantage, but at least there would still be less micromanagement.

[Septimius Severus]

I'll post a link in the main thread to CBM 1.41b, so everyone can get it.

With regard to the many different versions of 1.41, QM says "It should not matter for pretender uploading. For the game itself you need whatever version is selected though."

[Septimius Severus]

Yes, I speak for all the other vets. Except for QM, who outranks me. And Evilhomer, he's better too. Hmm.... Actually, they all outrank me... better shut up now.

I'd better watch it, before I know it, you guys will be talking me into switching to a 24 hour initial host.

[Lingchih]

Yeah, that's a great idea Septimius. 24 hour initial host is almost a given for most games.

[Septimius Severus]

Yeah, that's a great idea Sept. 24 hour initial host is almost a given for most games.

Quickhost takes care of hosting in the event turns come in early, so I don't see the need and I those of us who are busy (with other things in life) might need the time, perhaps I'll compromise on a 36 hour host. :)

[Lingchih]

What?? You are saying I don't have a life?

Well, you might be correct in that. 36 hour sounds good to me.

[Ironhawk]

Let me know when the game is up. I'm ready to upload

[Septimius Severus]

Let me know when the game is up. I'm ready to upload

I've got you down as Abysia, if that is not correct let me know.

Amon, I need you to select some other nation aside from Pythium. Agartha, Caelum, or something else.

The game will be up soon, sorting out this CBM stuff, b,c, 1.41.

[Giant Moth]

What's all this about CBM? Some sort of mod that I need to download?

[Amonchakad]

Woops...i noticed now that this forum doesn't warn about incoming PMs...
So i read Sep's ones now. :S Feeling a little dumb here.
Anyway, if Pythium isn't available,i'll take Agartha.
And sorry again for the delay.

[llamabeast]

You should set it up to e-mail you. I don't think I could cope without that feature.

[rdonj]

Yes, I set it to receive emails whenever I receive a pm. And on the other board I receive emails whenever someone posts :P If I didn't I would constantly be refreshing the forums and that would just get ridiculously annoying after a while.

Yeah, CBM is a mod. Theoretically there will be either a download or a link to the download on the first page of this thread once we're ready to send in pretenders. Then you download it, unzip the mod and place the folder and .dm file in your dominions mods folder (C:\Program Files\dominions3\mods is the default path on windows).

On second glance, actually it seems CBM probably won't have a folder, but will have a .tga file alongside the .dm. There's no real difference really, you still just copy both of them into your mods folder.

CBM alters the costs, stats, and abilities of things a little in order to encourage more variety in gameplay. It strengthens some of the less used gods, reduces some summon prices and path costs, changes light cavalry to make it more useful in melee, etc. I believe it comes with a full changelog, so you can look through that to see what all changes it makes. I think the changelog is a little out of date though.

[Septimius Severus]

Since I cannot determine whether the 1.41 custom on Llamasever is the same as 1.41c, and can't find 1.41b, and to avoid confusion, we'll be using CBM 1.41, a link will be provided on the main page. The vets will just have to deal with the small Agartha bug.

Hosting will probably be set to 36 for the initial 20. Bear in mind though, this will mean less time for organization and communication between turns.

[Lingchih]

Just ask Quantum Mechanic what the most recent build is, and where to get it. He made it, after all. I think it is 1.4.1 C though. That's what I am running on Llamaserver in another game.

[Septimius Severus]

Just ask Quantum Mechanic what the most recent build is, and where to get it. He made it, after all. I think it is 1.4.1 C though. That's what I am running on Llamaserver in another game.

I've spoken with QM, my problem is what's available for selection on Llamasever. There's a 1.41 custom listed, if this is 1.41.c then we can use it, otherwise we'll just use 1.41.

[Septimius Severus]

Pretender uploading is underway.

[Giant Moth]

Right! Tell us what to do, and when.

[darloth]

I've dug up the Llamaserver FAQ and IMed details to Giant Moth, and also uploaded my own pretender.

[rdonj]

My pretender is in.

[BigandScary]

Is the name of this game "Noobs vs. Vets"?

[rdonj]

NoobsvsVets is how it shows up on the llamaserver page.

[Giant Moth]

Man is in, but the gamefiles keep calling me Chelms, which is the same(Man, Tower of Chelms). So I'm in :)

[Aristander]

Gath is in.

[Ironhawk]

Abysia is locked and loaded

[BigandScary]

Ermor is sent and recieved

[Lingchih]

Pan is in the house.

[LumenPlacidum]

Whoa, whoa, whoa... the vets have someone who's both Big AND scary? I don't know that I signed up for this.

Ulm is in.

[Septimius Severus]

God, you guys are fast, have you been slavering to play?
I've been so busy, I've not even had a chance to even consider what my pretender might me, I'll need to look at a strategy guide pronto!

Though, I don't think the Agartha bug will mean much, since I beleive it means a blindlord has lvl 8 in air or something, it would still require the requisite reseach to make use of it, and in the hands of noobs? I think we'll use 1.41 c (apparently, this is the same as the 1.41 custom listed on the server and used by Lingchih in the Wild Pansies game. "Wild pansies"
Where do people come up with these crazy names?

I'll put an attachment on the main page for it, we'll use it in the actual game, to be fair to the vets, unless everyone is ok with just using 1.41.

[Ironhawk]

Level 8 air magic is hugely powerful. Theres no way that unit could be allowed to play. I've no objection to using the newer cbm.

[Septimius Severus]

Assuming the vets are OK with the noob team, we'll be starting soon, I think I may do 36 for the initial 10 on the hosting interval given the likelyhood of hostilities early on and to allow time for communication amongst teams.

It is in each team's best interest to insure they've got enough alternates for their side in case someone drops, stales, needs a sub, or whatever.

[darloth]

They may be hugely powerful, but they also start around 40 years past their old age limit, so they die pretty quick and have some hefty stat penalties.

I think it's the magic adding to their age ^_^

[rdonj]

The game should work properly without resubmitting pretenders to make sure they aren't affected by the CBM version switch, but just to make sure I have resubmitted my pretender.

[Lingchih]

I sure hope it does. A mod switch at this point would be a nightmare. Almost everyone has already sent their pretenders in.

[Giant Moth]

If it doesnt work, we'll juts have to play with the old mod?

[rdonj]

From what I've read in other games, we would only have to resubmit pretenders if the pretender was changed by the mod. Using the updated version of the mod should still work as long as the pretenders weren't changed by the new version of CBM, which I am pretty sure is the case. But I redid my pretender with the new version on the off chance they were changed just to be extra sure.

[Lingchih]

12 players in. Who are we waiting on? Oh, where is EvilHomer?

[rdonj]

Septimius and Amonchakad from our team, and Evilhomer from yours.

[Amonchakad]

My pretender is in, I think that only Evilhomer's missing now.

[rdonj]

R'lyeh is in, so yeah, evilhomer is the only one not in yet.

[Evilhomer]

Pretender has been sent

[rdonj]

Alpine Joe, you're still not registered on the other forum ;) You left a message registered as a guest but never went through the registration process. If you're going to use the other forum you'll need to do that, and I would suggest sooner rather than later. I have left you a few pms to that effect, I guess you didn't see them?

[Giant Moth]

So the game has started it seem!

May the best noob win!

[Ironhawk]

BTW, if you appreciate the awesome service that llamabeast gives us in hosting this server you should drop a buck or two into the donate button on his site. I'm gonna do it when I get home from work and drop my first turn.

[Lingchih]

Indeed, please donate to the llamaserver. I have done so, but need to do so again. Such an awesome server.

[Lavaere]

OK so how the hell do I upload my turn. Without it replying with no game for pretender to be uploaded too

[Septimius Severus]

If there are no objections, I'm going to post a link to the noob forum for convienence purposes on the main page of the thread. Security should not be an issue.

[Septimius Severus]

OK so how the hell do I upload my turn. Without it replying with no game for pretender to be uploaded too

I don't know why your getting this message, could be an e-mail issue or a server problem. You didn't have any issues getting your pretender in I assume?

[Lavaere]

NoobsvsVets and no subject both came back with it saying that I couldn't upload a pretender because that game didn't exist. And yeah when I first uploaded my pretender everything went ok.

[rdonj]

Well, I'm going to assume that since the turn hosted with no stales you figured it out :)

[Ironhawk]

I'm happy to report a successfull first turn for Abysia. We even found the magical site The Throne of the World. All the peoples of the world will now tremble before our might!!#

[Lavaere]

Yeah for my first time I had some stuff ups. Needing the first turn resent, and then not until the 5th try did I finally get my turn in.

[Giant Moth]

I'm happy to report a successfull first turn for Abysia. We even found the magical site The Throne of the World. All the peoples of the world will now tremble before our might!!#

Wait, you can find magic sites in your home province? I've been told that no additional magic sites can be found at your capitol.

[LumenPlacidum]

He found the Throne of the World just like I received a squad of affliction-less tartarians at my capital.

[Ironhawk]

Hahah yeah I was just fooling around. :) The Throne of the World is like the best site in the entire game. I dont think it can even be found randomly - has to be part of a map file. And you cant find sites in your capital either, correct.

[BigandScary]

Wait, your Throne of the World didn't come with its own Tartarians? Wow, how unlucky. I'm going to have to make do with the Seraph that just arrived at my capitol.

[Lingchih]

Hmm. 50 Aboms just showed up at my capitol. Wonder what I should do with them.

[rdonj]

In the first month of noob wars, illwinter gave to me?

Your abominations can play with all the chayots I got this turn.

[darloth]

those are all very impressive, but -I- found a massive expanse of pink dots and green graphics corruption! Now my laptop boots up with six tiny subscreen screens that flicker at random!

...

I think it's dead.

So, uh, yeah... I'd like to request a 48 hour extension while I work out what the heck I'm going to do about that, please.

:(

[rdonj]

Uh oh. That can't be good.

[Ironhawk]

Yeah that does sound bad :/ Sorry bout your computer probs, darloth.

Any chance that one of your teammates could cover a turn or two for you tho? After all the delays starting, I'd hate to only get two turns in and then stall again. Early turns are so short, anyway.

[darloth]

Hopefully I can play the turns on another computer, if I can find my CD code... That or recover the hard drive, or even boot through the graphics corruption and just copy stuff. I'll try and keep you posted.

[pyg]

Yeah that does sound bad :/ Sorry bout your computer probs, darloth.

Any chance that one of your teammates could cover a turn or two for you tho? After all the delays starting, I'd hate to only get two turns in and then stall again. Early turns are so short, anyway.

I could play for darloth, unless you think you can swing it. Your call darloth.

[Giant Moth]

Perhaps boot the computer in safe mode, and toss everything over on a USB?

[darloth]

can't boot, the graphics are corrupted from the post onwards. If I don't manage to submit a turn tonight (within 8 hours or so) please anyone on the Noob team feel free to take my turn instead (Septimus, as the game Admin, should be able to set that up). If GiantMoth wants to then give him first pick please. I'm attempting to shift computers, reinstall and update Dominions, and find my manual. I knew I should have written the CD key on the CD wallet -_-.

[Septimius Severus]

I shall institute a short delay for now. In the meantime, Giant Moth, if you wish to take Darloth's turn, you need to PM me your e-mail address. I'll be monitoring the situation till then.

Early turn staling on such a cramped map is not desirable.

Don't forget to PM me as well, whenever anyone needs a delay as I check my E-mail first.

[Lingchih]

Oh, I was wondering about all the sequential delays. I had hoped to do my turn tonite.

I can empathize about the computer problems though. I know I have had my share of them.

[darloth]

Apologies all, I've checked and I have a fairly good idea where my CD key is, but it's not where I am at the moment. Looks like no dominions for me for the next two weeks or so until I can get it back again.

Sorry again, but I can't play in the meantime. I'll keep watching the thread and update you if anything changes.

[Giant Moth]

That's alright, I have stolen your turns. Well, as soon as I get it emailed to me :)

Fix your IM so you can tell me what to at least.

[llamabeast]

darloth: If you can even get access to your laptop files (through some recovery mode or boot disk or something, depending on how disastrously it's died), there's a file called "key" in the dominions3 folder which contains your CD key.

[darloth]

Thankyou for the advice, and I do know of it, but unfortunately I can't get it to boot at all. Harddrive is fine as far as I know so I'm considering getting a separate enclosure for it and reading it that way but it won't be instant, and I can't seem to get it to boot into safe mode or dos or anything - damn vista :)

[Giant Moth]

PROBLEM!

Dominions 3 snarled angrily at me for playing Darloths turn, and thus cancelled all my orders as Jomon, saying there was a cd-key violation.

So he did nothing for his last turn =/

It said that he was using the same cd key as another player(that is, me, since I sent it in), thus we need to find a substitute for Darloth that is not in the game.

[Ironhawk]

I know that it is possible for one player to play more than one nation in a game. Seen it happen several times as teammates cover for each other just like this. I talked it over with some people and they said that you must play both turns from the same computer. What dom3 doesnt like is if you play one turn on one machine, and then another turn (in the same game) from another computer. That makes it think that you've illegally shared your key w/ someone else.

Hopefully that addresses your problem.

[rdonj]

On a different note, is it just me or are the independants unusually strong in this game?

[lch]

You can see the independents strength under Options > Game options, in-game.

[Septimius Severus]

So he did nothing for his last turn

Not good news for the noob team, at a crucial early stage, something I feared might happen, but not a fatal blow either.



It said that he was using the same cd key as another player(that is, me, since I sent it in), thus we need to find a substitute for Darloth that is not in the game.

Either that or wait till Darloth can get back up and in the game.

I had anticipated this, that was the purpose of having alternates. We need more for both teams.

[Septimius Severus]

On a different note, is it just me or are the independants unusually strong in this game?

Independent strength is set at 6, it's also noted on the main page of the thread. Though, they do seem rather strong. Though I think 6 is managable. Another way to alter the speed of the game (expansion-wise) is via this option, I was considering lowering it had we kept the orginal larger map.

[rdonj]

Oh, I didn't even notice they were turned up a notch, heh. It's just strange having so many independants near my capitol. Oh well, nothing that interesting.

[Giant Moth]

Can we get into contact with one of the substitutes then? I'm not sure if it will complain about the cd-key if I try another turn as Darloth.

[Septimius Severus]

Can we get into contact with one of the substitutes then? I'm not sure if it will complain about the cd-key if I try another turn as Darloth.

I'll see if Tifone is interested in a temp sub for Jomon. Meanwhile, lets do what we can to bring in some more alternates.

[darloth]

I've tried to contact Jachra, possibly known as Jachranit, as a sub for me. Please set Jomon's turn-email to jachranit@gmail.com - that should clear things up. I've also taken steps to recover my harddrive, best case tuesday, worst case next week saturday, I hope.

[rdonj]

I've tried to contact Jachra, possibly known as Jachranit, as a sub for me. Please set Jomon's turn-email to (hidden by llamabeast to prevent spam-harvesting) - that should clear things up. I've also taken steps to recover my harddrive, best case tuesday, worst case next week saturday, I hope.

In case that doesn't pan out I may have found someone willing to sub a position for us.

[Lingchih]

Can we get into contact with one of the substitutes then? I'm not sure if it will complain about the cd-key if I try another turn as Darloth.

Yeah, it will. I don't know if it is a fairly recent change, but you can't play two nations in a game from the same CD-Key. You get that message, and then the turn orders are ignored.

I've had it happen to me in two recent games where I was trying to set a staling nation to AI.