Remove Artifacts?

[JimMorrison]

Okay call me lazy, but since I have done no modding thus far, I'm just curious on one point, before I go about making my first mod.

Anyways - Is it possible through a mod to remove Allows Creation of Magical Artifacts, not just from Cons8, but from the game altogether?

I find that Artifacts can be extremely imbalancing to the game in general, but yet that in smaller games that very imbalance makes sense to the flow of the game. However, in larger games, it seems to me that in many cases (WoG remake, anyone?), that geography and other factors can make it impossible for everyone to deal with the guy who shot straight for Cons8, and managed to forge all of the best artifacts first.

Anyway, my thought is to perhaps see if it's worthwhile to make a bundled mod that removes artifacts, removes the Banned Spells, and perhaps puts a few other modifications in place specifically for games with 20+ players.

[Redeyes]

Sure, just:
#selectitem "Item Name"
#constlevel 12
#end

For every artifact you want to remove.

They'll still be wishable, you might have to solve that by removing every effect from the items so there isn't any reason to.

[Redeyes]

Here's a mod doing moving all artifacts to const12.

[JimMorrison]

Actually, that's awesome. I don't mind if they're Wished, as that is a massive investment, and makes them unattractive for most purposes.

Thank you, I think I will use this for the base of my mod. I'm going to couple it with Banned Spells, and then I am going to start working out a mod to introduce thug and SC chassis for the paths other than Death and Blood.

Thanks for your help!

[llamabeast]

Jim, re adding thug and sc chassis to other paths, I'm nearly done with a mod to do that. I've slowed down on it dramatically recently, but I think I will hopefully get started again shortly. I've pretty much done all the graphics and most of the coding, so I just have to sort a couple of sprites and the descriptions. Should be a beta before too long.

[JimMorrison]

Jim, re adding thug and sc chassis to other paths, I'm nearly done with a mod to do that. I've slowed down on it dramatically recently, but I think I will hopefully get started again shortly. I've pretty much done all the graphics and most of the coding, so I just have to sort a couple of sprites and the descriptions. Should be a beta before too long.

I'm very much looking forward to seeing it. I've been really inspired to make the game friendlier to larger games, and I think these are important steps in that process.

[Burnsaber]

Have you thought about replacing the Cons8 artifact items with less powerful normal ones? With the artifacts removed, I don't think that the Construction path seems that viable after level 6. Sure, Poison Golems are nice, but are they that nice that you'd use up your research to go through empty level 8?

[Endoperez]

Have you thought about replacing the Cons8 artifact items with less powerful normal ones? With the artifacts removed, I don't think that the Construction path seems that viable after level 6. Sure, Poison Golems are nice, but are they that nice that you'd use up your research to go through empty level 8?

I think anything at level 8 Construction will be unique. So you'd just create new artifacts to replace the old ones.

[Aezeal]

I don't see why everything at cont 8 would automatically be an artifact. Guess someone should try to find out though.

[Redeyes]

Thanks for your help!

No problem, was in a bit of a hurry when I wrote the earlier but I just scavenged the code from an earlier mod by KO removing all level 6 spells and up.

I don't see why everything at cont 8 would automatically be an artifact. Guess someone should try to find out though. I can confirm that moving constr8 items to level 2 makes them freely craft able, so at least it works the other way around.

[Aezeal]

Aw.. still needs to be tested though :D

[JimMorrison]

Thanks for your help!

No problem, was in a bit of a hurry when I wrote the earlier but I just scavenged the code from an earlier mod by KO removing all level 6 spells and up.

I don't see why everything at cont 8 would automatically be an artifact. Guess someone should try to find out though. I can confirm that moving constr8 items to level 2 makes them freely craft able, so at least it works the other way around.


Woah woah woah WOAH!

Wait a second, back the truck up here.

Are we implying that "Construction Level 8" has a hardcoded Artifact item restriction? So if, for example, all the Artifacts were moved to Cons9, would they then also be freely craftable??

I could see the value in doing so, while just removing a few of the most insane pieces, like Kurgi's Gift, The Aegis, The Ark, etc, while still allowing global access to the rest of the selection. Then there is still the late game excitement and brutality of Artifact warfare, but no one can corner the market.

[Redeyes]

Yes, constr 8 has the artifact restriction hardcoded.
No, you can't move items to an odd number construction level, they simply behave as if they were an item available at one level lower than the one you allotted.
I.e. moving artifacts to level 9 wouldn't be any change

[Burnsaber]

I think that the best "compromize" would be to take away the truly powerful artifacts and leave some of the weaker ones, so that reaching con8 would have some reward. I mean, it's not like I instantly lose if my opponent got Krupp's Bracers before me.

Looking at the artifacts, I think that these coulde remain:

One-Handed Weapons:
O'al Kan's Spectre, The Summit, Twin Spears, Rod of Death, Picus % Proca's Axe of Rulership.

Two-handed weapons:
Flailing Hands, Sword of Justice, The Oath Rod of Kurgi

Shields:
Barrier

Armors:
Aseftik's Armor, Robe of Calius the Druid, Fenrir's Pelt

Helmets:
Crown of the Ivy King,

Items:
The Flying Ship, Tomes of Power, Krupp's Bracers, Percival, Holger the Head, Alchemist's Stone, Bell of Cleansing, Ardmon's Soul Trap, Igor Könhelm's Tome

[JimMorrison]

I've been thinking about your post, and since this is intended to be for a package mod for large games, I'm tentatively going to break all Artifacts into 3 groups -

Minor Artifacts - Moved to Cons6 to allow multiple construction, perhaps with increased gem costs

Major Artifacts - Stay at Cons8, perhaps with increased gem costs

Insane Artifacts - the ones that truly can change the face of the game, singular artifacts that can ruin armies (a la The Ark), these will be removed entirely


So for example, Krupp's will likely have an increased cost to construct, but will be at Cons6. Asfetik's Armor will retain its high cost, and move to Cons6. Monolith Armor, The Barrier, The Flying Ship, The Magic Lamp, are good examples of Artifacts that will remain at Cons8. Aegis, The Ark, The Chalice, are some that would be removed to even the playing field.

I'll try to work out the full list later when I get the chance. The mod that Redeyes posted should make an excellent template to work from, thanks again, Red. <3

[lch]

Are we implying that "Construction Level 8" has a hardcoded Artifact item restriction? So if, for example, all the Artifacts were moved to Cons9, would they then also be freely craftable??
Yes, level 8+ is for artifacts. All the "unforgeable" artifacts are at level 12. Somebody came up with a way to research Construction up to level 12, by having such insane research that he researches four consecutive levels of Construction at the same time, and he could forge the "unforgeable" artifacts then. That's probably why they're not at 10.

Insane Artifacts - the ones that truly can change the face of the game, singular artifacts that can ruin armies (a la The Ark), these will be removed entirely
I don't know if you can "remove them entirely", as they probably would still be wishable. If there's some reset-like mod command, you can make them useless, though.

[lch]

Also, internally the levels are half those numbers, artifacts are 4, unforgables are 6, and so on. The construction level just has to be twice that value, or rather, the construction level is halved to determine what can be forged at which level. Probably the same applies to the mod commands, which is why it makes no difference to use even numbers or the next odd number, rounding down.

[JimMorrison]

Insane Artifacts - the ones that truly can change the face of the game, singular artifacts that can ruin armies (a la The Ark), these will be removed entirely
I don't know if you can "remove them entirely", as they probably would still be wishable. If there's some reset-like mod command, you can make them useless, though.


Well like I said, if someone wants to have an S9 mage with Alteration 9 spend 100 pearls for one of those artifacts, I don't see it as the end of the world, as it's far more expense and effort than it currently is, for those items. Plus, with Forging, once you get that item, it's sort of yours forever, but if everyone who really wants The Chalice knows that they'll HAVE to Wish for it, then multiple people may go that route, and they can Wish it back and forth all they want. :p


As far as the integers for crafting level go, that's interesting, but like I said, I think that this solution will work out pretty well. There won't be nearly as many actual Uniques to forge when using this mod, but there will be enough to make it a worthy research goal sooner or later. Oddly, I think even more people will shoot for Cons6 early on, with the added goodies there. Lucky for my conscience that this will be coupled with my thug/SC summons package, so everyone should have access to something worth putting that gear on.