Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysterio's Revenge, EA, CBM, Game Over. Vets defeat Noobs.

[quantum_mechani]

Next game I'm thinking my own Maori culture. Though not sure which maori god to use yet.

I started making a Maori mod once... I still have some moa rider sprites somewhere. :D

[Lavaere]

hmm, a Maori nation could be interesting if it also had Morioris. but with only patu and taiaha, can't think of any ranged weapons at the moment

[Lingchih]

Ermor, Formoria, wtf? Get your turns in. This is not lackadaisical game.

[Lingchih]

Ermor, Helheim? It's like turn three. Let's go man!!!

This ain't an exercise. It's an extended blitz.

[Ironhawk]

Ironhawk, aren't you just frustrated with your capital placed on the Inkpot End?

Yes actually the presence of Inkpot End in my capital is causing some persistent problems for my nation. My Helhirdings persist in treating it as a "test of bravery" to go in there and almost invariably come out diseased. I must then rush them to the front to get any use at all out of them!

[Ironhawk]

Ermor, Helheim? It's like turn three. Let's go man!!!

I apologize for the late turn. I was hammered out of my mind on friday night and only just barely returned to a functioning state by saturday night. Just in time to notice the turn was about to generate - yikes!!

[Lingchih]

Hehe. Just doing my part as the "turn enforcer".

[atul]

Ermor needs some enforcing again.

Oh, and how was this NAP thing again, first fights on turn 10 or first orders on it (and fights on turn 11)?

[Septimius Severus]

Ermor needs some enforcing again.

Oh, and how was this NAP thing again, first fights on turn 10 or first orders on it (and fights on turn 11)?

You may place your orders on turn 10. Actual hostilities begin turn 11. Of course, non-intentional "bumps", where either side moves into an indy province don't count.

My Internet has gone down at home, I expect till Friday. Rather than stale, or delay the game, I think it best if one of our alternates, or even former players can temp sub for a few turns for me. May delay the turn an hour or two to faciliate this.

First to see this, please PM me your e-mail address so we can get the current turn in. Thanks.

[atul]

Hm, do your alternatives frequently read this thread? Wouldn't it be better to PM them?

[Septimius Severus]

Hm, do your alternatives frequently read this thread? Wouldn't it be better to PM them?

Already did, but just in case.

[Septimius Severus]

Grudgebringer will temp sub for me (Ermor).

I expect to be back in the game in a week. I'll still be able to admin though.

[GrudgeBringer]

Somebody help me...

I am subbing for Ermor but I can't get the cb141 complete to lad without killing the Dom game completely.

I don't meam it won't let me in THIS game...it won't let me in the server at all until I delete it.

I have less tham 1 hour to post his turn and I don't want to let him or the game down but I need some help with this..PM me please

GrudgeBringer:confused:

[atul]

Did you take the attachment from the first post? You mean it crashes your dominions, or what?

If you want online help and can access IRC, #dominions has people on it that can help out too.

[Ironhawk]

Grudge, calm down. Judging by the charts, Ermor's position is so bad right now that one turn of staling is not going to be a game-changer.

Now, what are you talking about with "cant get into the server"? This is a PBEM game, you shouldnt be connecting to any servers.

[GrudgeBringer]

Yeah, I took it from the first page of the forum post..

It has 2 different 141 files on it.

I took the bottom one.

Kickes me back to windows.

LLama is helping me right now..I am going to try the top patch.

[GrudgeBringer]

I am somewhat computer challenged...

When I say server I mean the place where all the games are listed so I can play them.

I know its not a server...but honestly, I'm not sure what a server really does either..LOl

I'm going to keep trying, llama set the turn back a couple of hours to try and help me.

[Ironhawk]

What is the error you see when you are kicked back to windows? In all liklihood, you are just missing a mod or map file. Don't pick and choose files out of the download - place them all into your mod folder.

Also, post the error you are getting that forces you back to windows.

[GrudgeBringer]

I copy the whole file and extract it IN the Mod file...NO files show up.

I just D/l the TOP 141 thinking maybe the bottom one was for Mac or domething and files DID show up but when I went to play the game it said I needed 141c (i take it this means complete)

The bottom file on the first page of the Noobs vs Vets forum is the one I am having problems with.

I am going to try it agian

[Illuminated One]

You need to extract both files into your mod folder.
The first one is the normal CBM the second one contains some additional changes to CBM.

Once you have done that the mod folder should contain the following files

WorthyHeroes
cbcomplete.tga
CBcomplete_1.41.dm
CBcomplete_1.41c.dm

and whatever else you had before that. Then the game should start without problems. If it really does not give you the last file maybe instead of extracting you could try to double click on the zip file. Select CBcomplete_1.41c.dm in the window that opens hit CTRL+C (press and hold CTRL, press and release C, release CTRL). Go to the mod folder and hit CTRL+V (same procedure).


P.S.: Don't worry I was somewhat confused about that at the start as well. :D

[Ironhawk]

The two zips in the first post of this thread are:

zip1: Worthy Heros, Conceptual Balance Mod 1.41
zip2: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.41c

Don't try and pick and chose one or the other or any files from either. Extract the contents of all of them to your mods folder. If, as you say, no files are extracted from the second zip - then I dont know what to tell you. Perhaps your extraction program is broken? I just tried downloading both zips now to test them and they are working.

EDIT: Yeah atul just pointed out to me that it could be a naming error. Make sure that your files are named exactly as Illuminated One has listed them.

[GrudgeBringer]

I just did the top one and it was fine

The bottom one gave me this

Nagot gick fel!
myloadmalloc: can't open/
cbcomplete_1{1}{1}.41cdm

I just copied the whole file in and extrated it there like I do all the others...no luck

Maybe it is broke..

[Illuminated One]

PM me your email and I'll mail you mine without zip.

[GrudgeBringer]

OK I'm in...Subbing for Ermor.

I need to get a turn in quickly and don't know my relationship with who...

Offers from players, any special team (or starting Naps for that matter), and is there a special room for Noobs to know or plan things.

any info would be helpful and I will get this in quickly

[Lingchih]

Well, the teams are listed on the first page. We are all at peace until turn 10, when orders can go in to attack the other team. There is a forum set up for both the Vets and the Noobs, but I think you will have to go to the Noobs forum, sign up to join, and then the admin will let you in. Should not take more than a day.

Good luck subbing, and thanks for getting the turn in Grudge.

[rdonj]

Well, the teams are listed on the first page. We are all at peace until turn 10, when orders can go in to attack the other team. There is a forum set up for both the Vets and the Noobs, but I think you will have to go to the Noobs forum, sign up to join, and then the admin will let you in. Should not take more than a day.

Good luck subbing, and thanks for getting the turn in Grudge.

Yes, exactly so. The noob forum is here (http://teamnoob.forumotion.net/forum.htm). Register on that forum, and then on THIS forum, send me a pm saying what the nickname you chose for the noob forum is, and that it's you, and I will set you up.

[Lingchih]

C'tis, get your turn in! Don't make me scold you again.

[Septimius Severus]

Grudgebringer, I'm sorry you had some difficulties with CBM and so forth, but I'm glad you got it straightened out. The info in my sitrep should have helped you a bit in terms of the situtation.

I see Ctis stalled one turn. :(

[Ironhawk]

Intelligence reports of vet-team spies have revealed that CTis staled in protest over mistreatment by the rest of his team. As the non-human member race of the coalition, they believe that thier interests are not being adequately represented in the council of noobery!

[Lavaere]

Wait does that mean Lankans are human. You wound us deep with your vile words.

[Ironhawk]

Yes. Filthy humans!!!

[Ironhawk]

Can we get the turn postponed till tonight for TheDemon? He had some family stuff to do for the easter weekend - said he thought he would be back in time to get his turn in but he's still incommunicando so something must not have gone to plan.

[TheDemon]

its cool, I got it in

[Septimius Severus]

Can we get the turn postponed till tonight for TheDemon? He had some family stuff to do for the easter weekend - said he thought he would be back in time to get his turn in but he's still incommunicando so something must not have gone to plan.

I'm going to do a small delay for darloth (Ctis). I will not have access to the Internet again till Monday or Tuesday. Rdonj is admin till then.

[Lingchih]

C'tis, get your turn in!

[darloth]

I'm trying, I'm trying! It keeps complaining it wants turn 7, and I'm sending it turn 8, but the llamaserver status page clearly says it's on turn 8, and it's turn 8 I played...

Help?

[darloth]

odd... It seemed to work -this- time.

It was the same .2h and everything.

I am perplexed. Sorry it got held up, although I'm not entirely sure what was up with it or if it was anything to do with me.

[quantum_mechani]

Same thing happened to me, llamaserver hiccup.

[Ironhawk]

My Helhirds are getting hard to control. They keep asking me:

"Great leader - when will be able to spear some actual noobs from the backs of our mighty steeds, laughing while we do so??"

Soon, I tell them, soon.

[Lavaere]

Well time to eat some of annoying flappy birdie thingies. Down with Caelum

[Lavaere]

:( why can't I see an edit button

anyway, looking at the score how can I with the smallest nation possible have the largest army. it just seems weird

[Lingchih]

You can't see the edit button, because, after 60 minutes, this forum will not let you edit your post.

[TheDemon]

Well time to eat some of annoying flappy birdie thingies. Down with Caelum

Roast monkey.

[Lingchih]

Time for war noobies! Let's get it on!


Mysterio craves his revenge.

[Septimius Severus]

I'm back up. Will resume from Grudgebringer on turn 11. NAP is ending with turn 10. Thanks to rdonj for keeping watch.

Ye gods!

I don't like the stats I see. Sure I expected the vets with their giants to expand at a rapid clip, but not this fast. A quick look at the stats shows the vets with a province lead. 97 to 108.
Perhaps, I've given the vets too many advantages this time around. Well, some of it was necessary to coax those who would otherwise chaff (and most do) at the 2:1 odds. Will be corrected for the next game.

[atul]

Chill Sept, provinces are only potential, the current power is in income and gems. And those your team still has more.

But I must say, I don't think this expansion pace would've been possible without that NAP. So thanks.

[Lavaere]

no kidding, the Lanka/Caelum war would of started a few turns ago. exspecially since I've been making a nice map of what they have.

but we can fix that now. and atleast my fear of Caelum builing a fort next to me didn't come true

[atul]

So, only Fomoria left, then we get to see how much your words are worth.

[Hoplosternum]

I know you both have your secret forums but I hope both teams will post some updates here so the rest of us can follow what is going on?

Cheers :)

[atul]

Seen "Saving Private Ryan"? It was like the opening scene of that movie... Except for the part where the bad guys get slaughtered.

That report enough for you?

[Ironhawk]

Ye gods!

I don't like the stats I see. Sure I expected the vets with their giants to expand at a rapid clip, but not this fast. A quick look at the stats shows the vets with a province lead. 97 to 108.

Tut tut, sept! This has nothing to do with the game settings - this is just what it looks like when vets take off the kid gloves and play for the win. Our whole team worked on our expansion strategies in order to completely dominate the early game. And so, we have done it. Now get ready to see the next phase of our strategy...

Oh, and welcome back - TO YOUR DOOM! ;)

[TheDemon]

no kidding, the Lanka/Caelum war would of started a few turns ago. exspecially since I've been making a nice map of what they have.

but we can fix that now. and atleast my fear of Caelum builing a fort next to me didn't come true

Well, if I had been able to hit you when I found you, you would never have been able to combine your army at your cap. So I guess we're both lucky in a way, although you might want to check for that non-existent fort of mine again.

[Lingchih]

Niefelheim comes knocking at your door. You might not want to answer it.

[Septimius Severus]

Tut tut, sept! This has nothing to do with the game settings - this is just what it looks like when vets take off the kid gloves and play for the win. Our whole team worked on our expansion strategies in order to completely dominate the early game. And so, we have done it. Now get ready to see the next phase of our strategy...

Oh, and welcome back - TO YOUR DOOM! ;)

I thought you guys didn't like micromanagement. Better leave the province aquistion to us or relinquish some of what you do have to the noob team.

[Septimius Severus]

Niefelheim comes knocking at your door. You might not want to answer it.

Bring Mysterio to the front ASAP and place him in the front rank of your attacking army. :smirk:

[Ironhawk]

I thought you guys didn't like micromanagement. Better leave the province aquistion to us or relinquish some of what you do have to the noob team.

Hahaha, well said. However, we have already worked out a solution for this: Instead of executing the disgraced generals of the noob team, as would be normal, we are instead going to employ them as regional governors. With Slave Collars, of course!

[TheDemon]

In all seriousness, it probably has a lot to do with both the game settings and our specific expansion strats, and I'd be happy to discuss it after the game in detail, win or lose.

[Lingchih]

Sorry about your prophet, Abysia. I meant to let him go, but my troops got carried away.

[quantum_mechani]

And don't miss the third and final installment in the critically acclaimed Noobs vs. Vets series, coming to a Dominions server near you: Twice as large as NvVII, more than 30+ players, and massive battles. Reserve your spot today.Oh god that sounds horrific. I could go again into why that's a bad idea, but I'll take a different tac:

Let's up the ante, winning team decides settings for the next one (tradition has already been somewhat established). You are hereby challenged, there is only one honorable response. ;)

[Septimius Severus]

And don't miss the third and final installment in the critically acclaimed Noobs vs. Vets series, coming to a Dominions server near you: Twice as large as NvVII, more than 30+ players, and massive battles. Reserve your spot today.Oh god that sounds horrific. I could go again into why that's a bad idea, but I'll take a different tac:

Let's up the ante, winning team decides settings for the next one (tradition has already been somewhat established). You are hereby challenged, there is only one honorable response. ;)

What's so horrific?

I'm going to wait to see how this one plays out before we delve into specifics. I believe the playing field has been leveled this time around and possibly tipped slightly into the favor of the vets, however this may prove incorrect. Suggestions though, as always, are welcome. :)

[Lavaere]

30+ just ain't gonna be possible. you'll never all of your team on the forums and working as a team
unless you break that down to 3-5 different teams maybe

[quantum_mechani]

And don't miss the third and final installment in the critically acclaimed Noobs vs. Vets series, coming to a Dominions server near you: Twice as large as NvVII, more than 30+ players, and massive battles. Reserve your spot today.Oh god that sounds horrific. I could go again into why that's a bad idea, but I'll take a different tac:

Let's up the ante, winning team decides settings for the next one (tradition has already been somewhat established). You are hereby challenged, there is only one honorable response. ;)

What's so horrific?

I'm going to wait to see how this one plays out before we delve into specifics. I believe the playing field has been leveled this time around and possibly tipped slightly into the favor of the vets, however this may prove incorrect. Suggestions though, as always, are welcome. :)A coward's answer! Do not shame your team further by refusing.

Speaking of cowardly tricks, I have another bone to pick with you. Nowhere in the settings was it mentioned rare events, this is effectively a 240 (!) point disadvantage for a nation such as mine with luck 3.

Even worse though, is what it means about last game. Assuming that it was in effect then too, I'd cite it as one of the top reasons for the vets getting taken out. My entire build there was built around the income from luck, at the time I thought I had somehow just gotten phenomenally unlucky. So instead of events I had to rely on handouts from the rest of the team since my other scales were so bad, draining everyone. Additionally as I recall Ermor and Mictlan took luck as well, this proved especially deadly to Mictlan. Just imagine what one 1000-2000 gold event would have changed in the first few turns, a huge hydra army from the start.

[TheDemon]

You can find that out if you load the old game and check in the escape menu.

As for a 30+ game, I can't imagine organizing a vet team bigger than 5 the way we do things right now. As it stands, we're lucky there's a time in the day when we're typically all online so we can get proper planning done. I can't imagine how you noobs organize, or what would happen with teams of 10 and 20.

But hey, it might work, I'll just leave it to other vets to actually play it.

[archaeolept]

ah yes, that's not at all kosher. any settings other than standard (and almost no games are ever played w/ rare events) need to be explicitly stated. oh well - I guess the vets are playing w/ a disadvantage :)

[Ironhawk]

Rare events, heh. That just increases the irony of me getting plague in my capital yet more :)

[Illuminated One]

Speaking of cowardly tricks, I have another bone to pick with you. Nowhere in the settings was it mentioned rare events, this is effectively a 240 (!) point disadvantage for a nation such as mine with luck 3.

Oh well, I have luck 3, too.

[TheDemon]

well it's annoying, but it affects both sides more or less equally

[Lavaere]

well thats annoying, because I also hope for the bonuses from luck. if I new it was rare then I probably would of made that -3 for the extra points

[Lingchih]

If this is true (about the rare events), it should have been listed.

[Septimius Severus]

30+ just ain't gonna be possible. you'll never all of your team on the forums and working as a team
unless you break that down to 3-5 different teams maybe

To clarify for everyone, that figure "30+" includes a bunch of alternates who typically don't participate in the forums until they are needed and thus are not counted as active team members. I'd like to have around 9 alternates altogether for the next game. Let's not freak out people. I figure around 24 active players with a few carefully chosen mod nations. :)

[Septimius Severus]

A coward's answer! Do not shame your team further by refusing.

Speaking of cowardly tricks, I have another bone to pick with you. Nowhere in the settings was it mentioned rare events, this is effectively a 240 (!) point disadvantage for a nation such as mine with luck 3.

Even worse though, is what it means about last game. Assuming that it was in effect then too, I'd cite it as one of the top reasons for the vets getting taken out. My entire build there was built around the income from luck, at the time I thought I had somehow just gotten phenomenally unlucky. So instead of events I had to rely on handouts from the rest of the team since my other scales were so bad, draining everyone. Additionally as I recall Ermor and Mictlan took luck as well, this proved especially deadly to Mictlan. Just imagine what one 1000-2000 gold event would have changed in the first few turns, a huge hydra army from the start.

Excuses, excuses. Yeah, that was why your team lost. Come now.

A minor oversight. It slipped my mind, didn't want to bore everyone with every little detail. I usually choose it in SP games as it cuts down on some of the annoyances and extra turn messages. But as stated it helps and hinders both teams. I assure you twas not intentional. I also didn't mention HOF entries. I'll remember to state it next time though. Works out good for me though, as I usually take some misfortune. Lucikly Ermor's augurs help to counteract the misfortune scales. :)

[atul]

Event setting is hardly a minor thing since it affects order/turmoil balance heavily. But come to think of it, it at least used to be a common meme that turning down events would make the game more "strategic". Which is faulty logic.

In a different vein, what's up with Sauromatia? They staled once already. Get your team together, noobs!

[quantum_mechani]

Excuses, excuses. Yeah, that was why your team lost. Come now.

A minor oversight. It slipped my mind, didn't want to bore everyone with every little detail. I usually choose it in SP games as it cuts down on some of the annoyances and extra turn messages. But as stated it helps and hinders both teams. I assure you twas not intentional. I also didn't mention HOF entries. I'll remember to state it next time though. Works out good for me though, as I usually take some misfortune. Lucikly Ermor's augurs help to counteract the misfortune scales. :)Just to be clear, the difference between changing the HoF and changing events from common to rare is orders of magnitude. In fact, in terms of being able to screw up a particular pretender build it is probably more important than all the other settings combined. I do not overreact when I talk about it utterly ruining my nation last game. If I had been playing solo and not been able to drain cash from my teammates, it would have been more obvious just how crippling it was.

Anyway, no hard feelings about it, it would be a nice gesture if you'd at least let the vets handle the settings next game if we win though.

[Lavaere]

I always wondered when we played that game, why some of the vets had such dismal income.

[archaeolept]

that's a terrible answer severus, and really you should not be organizing games w/ an attitude like that. If I were involved in a normal game, and the game creator had done that, I would be quitting. luckily, in this team game, it is partially balanced out. It is not at all a minor oversight; it is a major violation of trust.

[TheDemon]

I have a theme for this turn:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvoeeq-BH4w

[namad]

I'm pretty damn outraged. I keep typing posts and then deleting them for being inflammatory.

[atul]

"this video is not available in your country"

...damn...

[P3D]

I agree it's not fair at all.

[Ironhawk]

As someone who's actually playing in the game and not commenting from the wings, the events thing is bad, yes. But its neither unforgivable nor the end of the world - it's just an oversight. Sept is new to hosting games and made a mistake. This should not come as a huge surprise to anyone? After all, its not like he intentionally did it and only kept that knowledge for the noob team so they could all take Misf-3 or something.

*shrug* Game on.

[atul]

Aye, lets move on. Still many scalps to collect, haven't even begun yet.

...but I still want to know what that video clip is about...

[archaeolept]

it's a clip of AC/DC's "Thunderstruck"

i'm pretty sure you can find some version of it available in "your country" :)

[atul]

Well, given the today's decision by our friends the swedish courts, probably pretty much nothing will be found from the interweb soon...

Anyway, after reviewing the army graphs, I must say the description probably fits. High voltage must be bad for poor monkees.

[Septimius Severus]

that's a terrible answer severus, and really you should not be organizing games w/ an attitude like that. If I were involved in a normal game, and the game creator had done that, I would be quitting. luckily, in this team game, it is partially balanced out. It is not at all a minor oversight; it is a major violation of trust.

I should not be organizing games? What is wrong with my attitude? It is best to let those remarks slide I think.

Ironhawk is correct, it was not intentional. It was not something I revealed only to my team or anything. Our noob archive is open to the public for all to see, if you doubt me. So what if it meant less points for some pretenders and less of those ridiculous "A hurricane struck the coast..." messages.

Let's have more concentration on basic strategic generalship rather than on random events and game exploits. Something the vets seem to know all to well. It will be listed for the next game. Now, lets have no more talk of this nonsense.

[Septimius Severus]

Just to be clear, the difference between changing the HoF and changing events from common to rare is orders of magnitude. In fact, in terms of being able to screw up a particular pretender build it is probably more important than all the other settings combined. I do not overreact when I talk about it utterly ruining my nation last game. If I had been playing solo and not been able to drain cash from my teammates, it would have been more obvious just how crippling it was.

Anyway, no hard feelings about it, it would be a nice gesture if you'd at least let the vets handle the settings next game if we win though.

Yes, I'm aware of the difference.

But enough of this whining and complaining. Ye gods, are you vets or what? Accept your lot and make the most of it.

I've given you first nation choice.
I've given you control of the seas and the only water nation.
I've given you veto power over membership in both teams.
I've given you a 10 turn NAP to expand unmolested.
I've given you a longer playing game with easy research which gives you an advantage based on your overall experience and knowledge of the magic system in the mid and late game.

With regard to letting the vets decide the settings, as I said let us see how the game plays out. Feel free to make suggestions, any sticky disagreements can be worked out democratically via a vote if it comes down to it. In the unlikely event the vets lose, I may give extra weight to your suggestions.

Understand, I have a vision for this series of games. I created the games to make that vision a reality and to suit those who share similiar ideas and playing habits, so there are certain things I will not compromise on.

[quantum_mechani]

I've given you first nation choice.
I've given you control of the seas and the only water nation.
I've given you veto power over membership in both teams.
I've given you a 10 turn NAP to expand unmolested.
I've given you a longer playing game with easy research which gives you an advantage based on your overall experience and knowledge of the magic system in the mid and late game.

First off, most these 'privileges' were unasked for and many in fact unwanted. Personally I was hoping newb water nations were allowed so I could duke it out with them underwater. And vets expressed disapproval or disinterest in the NAP (it was also pitched as an idea to help the newbs at the time).

In any case, you seem to be under the mistaken impression I was lobbying for more vet control of the settings in order for more advantage for that team. On the contrary, I simply think vets are best able to determine balanced settings (I think we would have made this game tougher on ourselves if given the choice). You may interpret the frequent issues brought up as 'whining', but it's simply an expression of frustration that the game could be/have been that much better.

If you want specifics about the settings I think need tweaking:

*The map size/player number: Bigger is not better. Bigger games move slower, take more turns, more micromanagement, and in most cases don't even offer bigger battles or more magic used. In fact the biggest battles tend to be on the most tightly packed maps- big maps just means tons of raiding micromanagement. The bottom line for the purposes of the stated goal of teaching newbs- less turns played/games played means the newbs learn slower.

*Rare events. This is a much lesser issue, but I still strongly believe it is a misstep. By nearly eliminating events, you entirely gut the strategy from 2 out 6 scales. Anyone not taking order 3/misfortune 3 would be crazy. And it hardly cuts down on the amount of chance involved anyway, luck with independents and magic sites is in general of far greater importance than fluctuations in events.

[Lingchih]

Oh hey Lanka, nice attack. I should probably remind you that Neifel Jarls do not run, ever,(at least mine don't), and they are pretty hard to kill. You might want to keep that in mind in the future as you try to put your army back together.

[TheDemon]

Let's just leave the settings discussion until this one's over. I don't see the point rehashing it anymore when we haven't even finished this game.

And yeah, for those of you who can't see the video clip it's just the music video to AC/DC's Thunderstruck.

[Septimius Severus]

QM, the concept is by its very nature umbalanced. Whenever you've got noobs facing vets, that will be the case. In a 1:1 game, the vets must be handicapped in order to give the noobs a fair shot. Ideally, it should be green noobs vs hall of famers(my vision).

With 1 noob and 1 vet in the water, you've basically got a 1:1 matchup, who do you suppose would have the upper hand under the waves? I would think the noob water nation would be wiped out rather quickly, before getting a chance to learn how to play.

With a 2:1 ratio, well things start to even out a bit especially if the vets can survive into the midgame and/or netrualize the noobs early numerical superiority(at least that seemed to be the consensus back then). However, many have said that 2:1 is too much and took the last game as proof, so I attempted to correct for it with some advantages for the vets in this game and a greater prov/player ratio and larger map/longer game which is what you guys suggested was one of your mistakes (I refer you to Ironhawk, et. al closing comments from game 1, prov/player ratio was too small, so forth, and so on..).

I do intend to make it harder for the vets next game, depending upon what happens here. One way to do that is to go to 3:1. Now tell me, do you really want to give up any advantages you might have? I'd rather think you'd want more (a no first attack rule for the noobs might be good). :)

I don't intend to increase the prov/player ratio, don't worry. Yes, vets may be more qualified to judge balance. NAP or no NAP, it is arguable whether it had any effect. I put it in to keep Atlantis from attacking early.

Rare events, standard events, makes no difference to me, whatever everyone wants, I don't have the time to put into this game that others seem to have. I've got other priorities. I like the heroes and the occasional gold, that comes with the events, that's about all.

I'm sure we will find a way to compromise between my "vision" and the balance the vets seek.

Now Vets, let me hear your suggestions for a perfectly balanced game. If you were admining tell me the exact settings you would choose and why: prov/player ratio, noob/vet ratio, and every other setting.

It will save time next game, by getting this stuff out of the way now, also will keep the thread alive.

[atul]

I don't have the time to put into this game that others seem to have. I've got other priorities.

Okay, I must bite this. The premise of this game was something like that the noobs learn from experience of playing against the vets. The most useful thing I am going to teach anyone during this game is this:

Even if we're all playing a strategy game this is a social forum. What you say and how you behave yourself is remembered far longer than whether you manage to beat many opponents.

Acting smug, condescending and throwing stuff like that does nobody any good. Being a game admin requires a thick skin, because people ***** about stuff that can't be affected. And usually correct answer is "Mea culpa, won't happen next time" instead of trying to prove one is correct to the last. Usually one just ends up contradicting himself and all the battles of the egos that result serve no-one.

So, lets keep on playing. I really think that the game setting conversation and the reasons why we are at this situation in-game are things that are better discussed when everyone can openly state what they have done and why, instead of the current war-time fog of war.

[Septimius Severus]

I don't have the time to put into this game that others seem to have. I've got other priorities.

Okay, I must bite this. The premise of this game was something like that the noobs learn from experience of playing against the vets. The most useful thing I am going to teach anyone during this game is this:

Even if we're all playing a strategy game this is a social forum. What you say and how you behave yourself is remembered far longer than whether you manage to beat many opponents.

Acting smug, condescending and throwing stuff like that does nobody any good. Being a game admin requires a thick skin, because people ***** about stuff that can't be affected. And usually correct answer is "Mea culpa, won't happen next time" instead of trying to prove one is correct to the last. Usually one just ends up contradicting himself and all the battles of the egos that result serve no-one.

So, lets keep on playing. I really think that the game setting conversation and the reasons why we are at this situation in-game are things that are better discussed when everyone can openly state what they have done and why, instead of the current war-time fog of war.

Your quite correct, though no one is being smug. What I said is quite true. I enjoy the game, but I don't take it that seriously and barely have time for it. I'm a noob and never claimed to be anything else, I've said it was unintentional if those outside of the game feel otherwise, that is on them. I've said the settings can be discussed later, but I'm not opposed to discussing them now, inevitably we wind up having a long debate about them anyway, especially between me and QM. If the vets have the elusive recipe for a balanced game I'd like to hear it. I do want the game to be larger (in terms of players) as befitting a final showdown.

Noob team:

Ossa (Sauromatia) and Alansmithee(Formoria), please check into the noob forum and coordinate/participate. Thanks.

[quantum_mechani]

I do intend to make it harder for the vets next game, depending upon what happens here. One way to do that is to go to 3:1. Now tell me, do you really want to give up any advantages you might have? I'd rather think you'd want more (a no first attack rule for the noobs might be good). :)

I'm fairly sure 3:1 would be too much unless the other settings were truly insane. Personally, if I were to pick settings it would look a lot like the first one, except easy research and normal events.

As has been said though, I guess talk of settings can wait until the game is over. I don't think the current settings are catastrophic or anything, it's just the talk of an even more gigantic game in the OP scared me. ;)

[Septimius Severus]

I'm fairly sure 3:1 would be too much unless the other settings were truly insane. Personally, if I were to pick settings it would look a lot like the first one, except easy research and normal events.

As has been said though, I guess talk of settings can wait until the game is over. I don't think the current settings are catastrophic or anything, it's just the talk of an even more gigantic game in the OP scared me. ;)

I think we can come to an agreement now and thus save time when the next game begins.

I will insist on two things, that fit my vision and the backstory. Number of players and noob/vet ratio.

24 players, 18 green noobs vs 6 HOF/experienced vets. I'd like 6 noob alternates and 3 vet alternates. I don't think organization will be a prob for the noob team, but I'll probably split the team into two groups based on geography(eastern and western noobs). It will only require a single additional thread on our forum.

You see, Mysterio's dastardly actions have stirred up outrage throughout the countryside. Noobs from every corner of the globe are responding to avenge this outrage.

All other settings including prov/player ratio, map, everything else will be left up to the vets. How does that sound? The vets can tweak everything else to compensate and ensure balance.

[quantum_mechani]

All other settings including prov/player ratio, map, everything else will be left up to the vets. How does that sound? The vets can tweak everything else to compensate and ensure balance.There is only one problem with that... with the odds staked so heavily vs. the vets I think we would be forced to choose a very large map to get it at all balanced. I defiantly want a small prov/player ratio, but the smaller it gets the tougher it gets on outnumbered team. I mean, I guess I'd still rather play a small game where the vets get crushed than a huge one that is just annoying to play, but it would kind of just be a repeat of the first game.

[Septimius Severus]

All other settings including prov/player ratio, map, everything else will be left up to the vets. How does that sound? The vets can tweak everything else to compensate and ensure balance.There is only one problem with that... with the odds staked so heavily vs. the vets I think we would be forced to choose a very large map to get it at all balanced. I defiantly want a small prov/player ratio, but the smaller it gets the tougher it gets on outnumbered team. I mean, I guess I'd still rather play a small game where the vets get crushed than a huge one that is just annoying to play, but it would kind of just be a repeat of the first game.

And we don't want a repeat of the first game, do we? So seems like a great compromise to me. I get what I want, you get what you want. Everyone's happy. If you want first choice or any other balancer that's fine with me. :up:

[Septimius Severus]

Anyone want to volunteer to post a regular summary of the action and/or stats on the thread to keep our alternates and observers up-to-date? Lingchih?

[atul]

I'd like the summary to come from the noob side. You can take turns, shouldn't be more than few summaries each. ;)

[quantum_mechani]

And we don't want a repeat of the first game, do we? So seems like a great compromise to me. I get what I want, you get what you want. Everyone's happy. If you want first choice or any other balancer that's fine with me. :up:I don't think it's what everyone wants- presumably no one wants a game that ends before it even really begins, and I certainly don't want a big map game. With your edict those seem to be the options.

[Lavaere]

Oh hey Lanka, nice attack. I should probably remind you that Neifel Jarls do not run, ever,(at least mine don't), and they are pretty hard to kill. You might want to keep that in mind in the future as you try to put your army back together.

I really though I'd have done alot better in that fight. But between that single battle and a very annoying Caelum. It could be awhile if at all.

[Lingchih]

I usually post some crap after every turn anyway Sept. So yeah, I can do that.

I think your vision for the third game is too big. I don't think you'll be able to find the players for it. The number of vets that actually still play is dropping slowly. That's why you have us instead of a full group of hall of famers. You might be able to find 18 noobs for it.

I say go with a smaller game simply for the fact of finding enough players.

[TheDemon]

Oh hey Lanka, nice attack. I should probably remind you that Neifel Jarls do not run, ever,(at least mine don't), and they are pretty hard to kill. You might want to keep that in mind in the future as you try to put your army back together.

I really though I'd have done alot better in that fight. But between that single battle and a very annoying Caelum. It could be awhile if at all.

The funny thing is, I'm the one who's supposed to be gunning for your armies, but Nief is getting all the big hits. I need more guys in the HoF damnit.

[Lingchih]

More massive hits from my Jarls. Yes, Noobs, I know you will say that you killed one. But that was an ill-placed move into unfriendly territory. Yes, a Jarl can be killed. But oh, they do not die easily.

[Lingchih]

I think Zeldor is the first sub up. Then Namad. Either one of you will do. PM me and I will send you the details.

[Lingchih]

Hehe. Don't get your hopes up Noobs. Zeldor is actually better than I am.

[Septimius Severus]

Hehe. Don't get your hopes up Noobs. Zeldor is actually better than I am.

Yes, that's right. Looks like Zeldor will be the temporary caretaker for Mysterio.

Considering how much you post, you can give a summary every 5 or 10 turns if you want.

An easy unbiased way to do this would be to record the stats for a given turn and say 5 turns later, comment on the difference.

[Septimius Severus]

I don't think it's what everyone wants- presumably no one wants a game that ends before it even really begins, and I certainly don't want a big map game. With your edict those seem to be the options.

If the vets lose the current game, you won't have to worry about 3:1. Otherwise, I'm afraid the insolence and arrogance of Mysterio, the vets, and their ilk must be punished.

I'm sure you'll figure something out to deal with it. I would like to have you in the next game, as I would everyone from the previous games.

Of course, as Lingchih says, I'll be limited by practicality, and to who I can get to go along with the idea. :) I'll be shooting for MA, btw. A taste of things to come.

[Lingchih]

This is all so premature. Mysterio has not even been spotted yet, and his Jarls are causing significant damage.

[Lingchih]

Mysterio, in his slumberings, see that his Jarls have indeed done the damage that he had intended. Worldwide chaos, and the chance to enslave this world. It is only a matter of time now.

[darloth]

More massive hits from my Jarls. Yes, Noobs, I know you will say that you killed one. But that was an ill-placed move into unfriendly territory. Yes, a Jarl can be killed. But oh, they do not die easily.

I dunno, trading 8 freespawn for 1 and 5 skinshifters seems like a good deal to -me- ^_^

[Lingchih]

Hehe. Don't get your hopes up Noobs. Zeldor is actually better than I am.

Yes, that's right. Looks like Zeldor will be the temporary caretaker for Mysterio.

Considering how much you post, you can give a summary every 5 or 10 turns if you want.

An easy unbiased way to do this would be to record the stats for a given turn and say 5 turns later, comment on the difference.

Yeah, I do kind of post a lot. I should probably just shut up and play the game.

[Lavaere]

no no, excessive talking is perfectly fine. you've just been neglecting to report on army composition and deployment about veterans to the rest of us

[Lingchih]

Of course Lavaere, how neglectful of me. I will be sure and post all vet deployments and troop composition in the future :)

to wit: Niefelheim has 42 Jarls in the field, with over 800 skinshifters. I will defer stating the other vet team members forces, until they give me the OK. Though their numbers are similar to Niefs.

[atul]

Dont tell them my army composition. We don't want them to get a clue about those glamoured amphibious indies I found before it's too late, remember?

[LumenPlacidum]

Hi. I'm not going to be able to get this turn in in time because I have to get off to work. Can we delay hosting for 12 hours? I might get it in before then, but that will leave me until tonight to submit it. Sorry for requesting the delay, but I simply couldn't do the turn before tonight.

I'll also send a PM to the administrator of the game.

[atul]

And I rushed home from work just to get a revision in on time... :/

Can't be helped, hope admins are awake.

[Ironhawk]

Heheh sept: welcome to the world of hosting a game. It is a thankless job, I know it :)

So on that note, let me just take a minute to thank you for putting the game together. I'm having a good time and it looks to be some interesting wars brewing up here too! So, thanks! :clap:

And dont lose any sleep over the setting mistake either. Nothing ever comes out 100% right in a hosted game, there is always some problems and you just have to live with them. Another thing to keep in mind is that two of the people who complained most about the events thing were Arch and Namad - and they arent even in the game.

[archaeolept]

WTF? how is it relevant to an argument or an issue whether or not I am in a game? And any complaint I made was not about the setting, since why would I care, but the atrocious attitude Severus displayed.

now, I had my say, and it would have stayed dead, but Ironhawk seems to feel the need to stir the pot.

As it stands, the previous game's results are vitiated by the settings issue, and any subsequent noobs vs. vets game would I think be in dubious standings if organized by the same personage.

My statement about the settings issue: ah yes, that's not at all kosher. any settings other than standard (and almost no games are ever played w/ rare events) need to be explicitly stated. oh well - I guess the vets are playing w/ a disadvantage What about this do you feel is incorrect Ironhawk? Do you feel such settings do not need to be explicitly stated? ie., like wtf.

I made that one 3 line post, and another of about equal length concerning Severus' attitude. I fail to see how that qualifies me for being the one who "complains the most".

Now, if you want to suck up to Severus in order to make him feel all valued and all, that's quite fine. Just leave me the hell out of it.

[Ironhawk]

WTF? how is it relevant to an argument or an issue whether or not I am in a game?

Uhh... Because if you arent in the game then it doesnt effect you in any way? You could think it was the best decision or the worst decision - but if you arent directly involved in the impact then Sept doesnt need to worry about your complaint.

Personally I think Sept is running a decent game for being a new hoster. If you dont then just dont sign up for his next one. There's no need to rant about it in the game thread.

[archaeolept]

as was indicated, my comment was neither a litany of complaints, nor a rant. You decided to flame me as part of some pathetic attempt to pander to Severus. What, I ask again, do you feel was incorrect in my statement? I am surely open to modifying my stance if you would be so kind as to show my mistake.

To think that whether one should "worry about a complaint" is unrelated to the validity of said "complaint" is the worst kind of soft thinking. My position in this, ie. my status ad hominem, is irrelevant.

[Lingchih]

Oh, Sept wanted me to post a running commentary on the game I think. Well, here goes.

Vets continue to roll, pathetic Noobs are reeling.

[Lavaere]

Well heres my running commentary then. Monkeys keep chasing Birds that keep flying around. They ran into giant bipedal Wolves which ate Monkeys. Monkeys limp home to plead to Demons. Demons having not had a good meal in a while, go on Iron Chief America with this weeks special ingredient 'Caelum Birdmen'

[Lingchih]

Hehe. Nice post Lavaere.

[Lavaere]

well next time I just hope its a different era. maybe mid so I can play Shinuyama or Skaven. or late so I can play Bogarus

[Septimius Severus]

well next time I just hope its a different era. maybe mid so I can play Shinuyama or Skaven. or late so I can play Bogarus

It will be MA most likely, we've done the other era's.

[Septimius Severus]

Heheh sept: welcome to the world of hosting a game. It is a thankless job, I know it :)

So on that note, let me just take a minute to thank you for putting the game together. I'm having a good time and it looks to be some interesting wars brewing up here too! So, thanks! :clap:

And dont lose any sleep over the setting mistake either. Nothing ever comes out 100% right in a hosted game, there is always some problems and you just have to live with them. Another thing to keep in mind is that two of the people who complained most about the events thing were Arch and Namad - and they arent even in the game.

Get him Ironhawk!

Many noobs start games with far less preperation/discussion than I put into the first game, how long was it before we even started?

I've already answered Arch's comment, by not responding to it.

Your right, while I generally welcome commentary, suggestions, and contstructive criticism from all who may follow our game, ultimately, those who are actually involved are the only ones who will be affected by any game settings.

[atul]

On a completely different note:

That much PD would've bought you a mage. Money well spent, Ermor? :p

[darloth]

Hey vets, are you giving me stuff by accident, or as some sort of insult?

Edit: Or is there a third option I have failed to see. Some sort of cunning plan?

[atul]

Probably by accident. Please return to sender.

[Ironhawk]

I definitely didnt mean to send anything to you. Except the point of a lance ;) Yeah please return to sender - and thanks for being honest!

In other news - Sauro if you have any more Hydras, please send them my way. It appears my people have a real taste for hydra meat! Mmmmmmmmm. So good with soy sauce.

[TheDemon]

On that note, none of us can figure out what's missing as all the stuff we sent last turn seems to be accounted for, so have fun I guess (or send it back and we'll be all "OHHHHH THAT").

[Illuminated One]

And there was I assuming that Ring of Wizardry was from a lucky event...

[Septimius Severus]

On a completely different note:

That much PD would've bought you a mage. Money well spent, Ermor? :p

Any money spent to kill some of your troops (no matter how many) is worthwhile IMO.

Odd, I didn't see a commander for them, at least not a priest.

[darloth]

It was a chunk of 20 death gems, and since you aren't missing them immediately, I'll hold onto them for one more turn while I check with -my- team that someone didn't send them intentionally and for some perplexing reason they showed up as coming from Niefel.

[Ironhawk]

We are missing them. Ling definitely intended to send a shipment of D gems, but just got it mixed up somehow. He thought he *hadnt* sent the gems that turn, but was planning on sending them next turn. Thats why we surprised. However, it appears he in fact did send them. Can you please return to sender?

[TheDemon]

If it were me, I'd put them to immediate use so I could go all "what death gems?". But you might be a less malicious soul than I.

[Lingchih]

:doh:

[darloth]

Then I'll return them this time (next turn I play), but most certainly not the next time. You are lucky I'm not the competetive your-fault-not-mine sort. Careful with those mouse clicks in future *grin*

[atul]

So, the game's waiting for Fomoria only...

...some action required!

[Lingchih]

Thanks Darloth.

[Lingchih]

Turn report. Vets seem to gaining the upper hand. It could go either way now, but the vets seems to have the advantage. I have many Jarls in the field.

[Lavaere]

Think you could loan me some of those Jarls then.

[Lingchih]

Sure. Just research Charm. You can have as many of my Jarls as you want then.

[darloth]

I was up too late when I played my turn yesterday, and I entirely forgot to send those gems, sorry. I have now done so. Enjoy using them to continue stamping all over me -_-

[Illuminated One]

Times look grim.

[Lingchih]

Oh, don't worry Illuminated One. The times will look much grimmer soon.

[TheDemon]

Times look grim.

Mictlan, Sauro, and Vanheim (your three biggest) are still 100% intact, TC is doing well, all Ermor has lost are mercs, and I hear Argatha beat a Hinnom army this turn. So we still got work to do.

[Lavaere]

I hear chilled monkey is quite the delicacy. Wouldn't know myself, cannibalism being a taboo and all.

[darloth]

I need a turn delay please - issues with my webhost and possible trojan javascript code mean I might not have access to email for a while. 48 hours should do, but I'll report back if things are fixed sooner.

Sorry!

[Septimius Severus]

I need a turn delay please - issues with my webhost and possible trojan javascript code mean I might not have access to email for a while. 48 hours should do, but I'll report back if things are fixed sooner.

Sorry!

I see you've already got your turn in, so I assume you mean you need extra time on the next turn, no prob, just keep me informed by pm as well since I can no longer access this forum at work (darn), so we can keep delays before turn 20 at a minimum.

[Septimius Severus]

Oh, don't worry Illuminated One. The times will look much grimmer soon.

We (the noob team) certainly have a challenge this time around.

[Ironhawk]

Hey Vanheim - how's your pretender feeling?

:evil:

[darloth]

Okay, problem solved, was thankfully less terrible than it could have been. I'm playing my turn now.

[Lingchih]

So, Ermor has now joined the Elite "Killed a Jarl" club. I hope it was worth the cost to you, Ermor. And, that was one of my favorite Jarls... so there will be vengeance for him.

[atul]

Didn't yet see my turn but rumour has it that hydras are somewhat double edged swords.

:-P

[Ironhawk]

Yes it is confirmed - it was a classic Noobs vs. Vets moment. Sauro lost 70+ andro archers to his own foolishness in our little trap. Perhaps he will think twice next time before he uses poison cloud units

:poison: Danger! Call poison control immediately if you inhale Hydra vapors!! :poison:

[Illuminated One]

It's kind of sad that our only info about Sauro comes from a vet.

We have three players who are completely silent. Maybe they don't have the time in that case would you mind slowing down the game a bit?

[TheDemon]

Why not send them some in-game messages? It'll be delayed, but at least you'll get something out of them.

[Illuminated One]

I did that asking for a PM at least, and got no response. And I think Septimus did so some time ago.
Well, maybe I get one in game.

[TheDemon]

Well, if all you ask for is hey talk to me, I'm not sure what you'll get in reponse. If people aren't on your boards by now I doubt they'd get on board at this point. But if you send a PM and sum up your currrent strategy and how they fit in and ask "how soon can you get an army to X" or "could you focus on Caelum because he's really annoying and we'll defend your northern front" or something like that, you could keep them updated that way.

And if all else fails just fill their land with scouts like we do :D

[Ironhawk]

It's kind of sad that our only info about Sauro comes from a vet.

That is a bit silly, yeah. If you were curious, Sauro in a nutshell expanded really quickly but then switched to a defensive posture. Basically only been attacking me. First with hydras, which were turned back in a rather shameful fashion which probably made him overcautious. So then he built this mega Andro / Hydra army which he threw at me. On the face of it, it wasnt a terrible idea, however the Sauro player was clearly not accquainted with the incredible danger of deploying poison cloud units with non-PR units. So that offensive is likely hamstrung now too.

[Illuminated One]

That's more or less what I did. Even the part about please bash Caelum a bit. :D

And as you are so nice already, would it be to much to tell us a bit about your armies in Abysia? :angel

[TheDemon]

Abysia


He's dead, Jim.

[atul]

Got into accident. Broke a bone in hand. Could we please postpone hosting for a day or two?

[Lingchih]

Hey, sorry to hear that Atul. Hope you are OK.

Septimius, can we delay a bit? It's about time to go 48 hour anyway, is it not?

[Stretch]

I also broke a bone in my hand (a couple weeks ago), but it's a small one (5th metacarpal). Feel better soon Atul.

[Septimius Severus]

Hey, sorry to hear that Atul. Hope you are OK.

Septimius, can we delay a bit? It's about time to go 48 hour anyway, is it not?

Hmm, let's see the schedule calls for 44 about now, no prob Atul, I'll monitor the turn submission and extend as needed.

[atul]

Thanks Sept.

And ya, 5th metacarpal here too. But they're having some problems setting it I think.

[TheDemon]

Hey everyone.

I'm moving starting today, tomorrow and friday. Hopefully I won't miss a turn, but if it gets close, an extension on the timer would be nice. Thanks!

[Septimius Severus]

Both atul and TheDemon have gotten their turns in so I'll assume no futher extensions are needed unless I hear from someone else.

[Septimius Severus]

Where is that cowardly Mysterio?

Hmmm...

Noobs vs. Vets III: The Death of Mysterio.

Noobs vs. Vets III: Die, Mysterio, Die!

Noobs vs. Vets III: Genocide.

[atul]

Yeah, my hand didn't require surgery so I was able to submit my turn in time. TheDemon's request is about the next turn, I believe.

But, Sept, you're the only one not to submit!

[Lingchih]

Hah! Well met indeed C'tis. You have proven yourself a worthy adversary. But we shall meet again.

[darloth]

I must say, this raiding lark is an absolute jaunt when the sparrow is on the other foot.

No, I'm not sure why I used sparrow either.

Also, I looted the body.

[Ironhawk]

I heard that your victory was only due to the movement bug darloth, no?

[Lingchih]

Yes, that was supposed to be three Jarls hitting your cap darloth, not one. But due to the movement bug, two Jarls just sat there and picked their noses.

Nice turn anyway though, to you and all the noobs. You have kicked Big N in the crotch, and bloodied his nose when he bent over. But, you guys know you are only making me mad, right?

[Stretch]

What's the movement bug?

[namad]

around 0.1-1.0% of the time a movement order simply doesn't occur generally if the same movement issue is not changed the order will NEVER occur (but giving a different order of some sort clears the bug)


the bug only ever happened to me once ever in a multiplayer game so i don't know as much about it as others

[Septimius Severus]

Yeah, my hand didn't require surgery so I was able to submit my turn in time. TheDemon's request is about the next turn, I believe.


Was it? Well, I'll keep my eye on the turn submission for the current turn as well.

[Lingchih]

PS: I don't want to scare anyone off from the game with the movement bug. It does happen, very, very rarely. It just happened to me at a bad time.

That said, everyone should be aware that it occasionally happens that your units do not move as ordered. Probably less than 1% of the time, as Namad said.

You could put this into game terms as, the runner with the orders got killed by a snake, or something, so the orders never got to the commanders.

[Stretch]

Interesting... I thought I was seeing that happen in my first MP game, but it was on an oversized map for the number of people and we were slinging so many armies around I always figured I must have inadvertently cancelled the move. Thanks for the explanation.

[Ironhawk]

Guys, I need a 24hr extension. I had planned to do my turn last night but I had to help a friend move and it ran way too long and I was totally wiped when I finally got home. And now I have to head to work and then go help him pack out again (he was supposed to be out today, the 1st, but he still isnt!@).

[darloth]

Yes, that was supposed to be three Jarls hitting your cap darloth, not one.

That's sad to hear. I would have liked to see the actual outcome of that, as with just the one jarl, my PD and elephants killed him before my attempt at thugs even got close. For that reason, I wouldn't say the movement bug is the ONLY reason I won... it almost certainly meant I won without losing anything really expensive, true.

You'll probably have better luck next time.

[Stretch]

Has anyone discussed a Pro-Am for NvV3? 1 Vet + 1 noob per team, if we have disparate numbers of players signing up then we can do some teams with 3 noobs instead. If team A's 1st player picked first, its second player would pick last. We'd have to figure out where the teams of 3 would pick but you get the idea.

Working with skilled players in the other game I'm in has taught me a lot. Plus, no forum needed, just private messaging on this forum.

[namad]

the general premise for preponderance1 was that each time would have a skilled and a less skilled player... although it ended up being the case that some teams had two skilled players because there weren't enough people signing up? i'm not totally sure... i definitely remember something zeldor posted in the beginnings of the thread about this...


i'm not sure if zeldor is planning to try and get something like this going for preponderance2 but it would be a bit silly to start starting two games with the same premise at the same time

[Stretch]

I looked at the beginning of that thread and saw

Teaming Rules: [may be relieved if we don't have enough people]
- no hardcore teaming [so 2 of the best of the best cannot play in one team]
- no newbies [unless teamed with experienced player]

Maybe that changed later on, though. I guess with 2 of these NvV games done that many of the new players might be getting above the 5 MP games or less mark in any case.

[Lingchih]

Yes, that was supposed to be three Jarls hitting your cap darloth, not one.

That's sad to hear. I would have liked to see the actual outcome of that, as with just the one jarl, my PD and elephants killed him before my attempt at thugs even got close. For that reason, I wouldn't say the movement bug is the ONLY reason I won... it almost certainly meant I won without losing anything really expensive, true.

You'll probably have better luck next time.

I think with the three Jarls, it would have been a tossup. You had a good patrolling force in there, but three Jarls could have wiped out those pesky Behemoths earlier. Your nationals can't really hurt multiple Jarls much, and the Banes probably would not have lasted long either. They don't have enough HP. The Jarls do an average of 50 hp on a hit. Those banes would die in one hit.

Anyway, I'm sure we'll get to try it all again before too long.

[Septimius Severus]

Guys, I need a 24hr extension. I had planned to do my turn last night but I had to help a friend move and it ran way too long and I was totally wiped when I finally got home. And now I have to head to work and then go help him pack out again (he was supposed to be out today, the 1st, but he still isnt!@).

No prob. I'm extending the turn another 24 hours for Caelum and Helheim.

[Lingchih]

Ahh, I may have forgotten to mention that I am not going on vacation this week. I had to cancel. I will be out of town sometime this month, but should be able to do my turns myself.

[Septimius Severus]

Has anyone discussed a Pro-Am for NvV3? 1 Vet + 1 noob per team, if we have disparate numbers of players signing up then we can do some teams with 3 noobs instead. If team A's 1st player picked first, its second player would pick last. We'd have to figure out where the teams of 3 would pick but you get the idea.

Working with skilled players in the other game I'm in has taught me a lot. Plus, no forum needed, just private messaging on this forum.

The idea has been brought up variously at times, though I've always been willing to consider it, I generally have resisted it as other games usually incorporate that idea in some fashion. I'd like to keep the game concept as pure as possible at least through NvV 3. Some argue you can learn more by playing with vets, I had argued that you can learn best by playing against them. It is debatable. There is also the thrill of facing the unknown. The concept is not for everyone, some green noobs are scared stiff of going up against legends of the game, while some vets baulk at the idea of facing 2:1 or even 3:1 odds. I do admire the bravery of all who have participated and continue to do so.

[quantum_mechani]

Teaming with the vets is probably more educational. Teaming against the vets is probably more fun (for both sides).

[Ironhawk]

No prob. I'm extending the turn another 24 hours for Caelum and Helheim.

None of the vets have seen Demon yet, so I guess his indefinite-delay for home moving this weekend would have covered me anyway. But just for forms sake I wanted to say thanks for the extension anyway.

[quantum_mechani]

If it will keep thedemon from staling (and the game moving), another option is you could send me his turn to sub.

[namad]

i'll submit a turn or two if need be... you guys can tell me what to do on IRC and/or use someone else.... or give him an extra day before you bother

[Septimius Severus]

If Namad wishes to sub without thedemons approval, and the other vets are OK with it, well no problem, as I am loathe to do another long delay without a specific request. If this is the case I'll need your e-mail PM'd to me ASAP and the amount of time you'll need.

[Septimius Severus]

If it will keep thedemon from staling (and the game moving), another option is you could send me his turn to sub.

Wouldn't that issue with your being in the game already prevent you subbing?

[quantum_mechani]

If it will keep thedemon from staling (and the game moving), another option is you could send me his turn to sub.

Wouldn't that issue with your being in the game already prevent you subbing?No, I have two keys, and in any case I don't think it effects PBEM.

[Septimius Severus]

If it will keep thedemon from staling (and the game moving), another option is you could send me his turn to sub.

Wouldn't that issue with your being in the game already prevent you subbing?No, I have two keys, and in any case I don't think it effects PBEM.

I'll need someones e-mail PM'ed to me along with the how long you'll need ASAP.

[Septimius Severus]

Teaming with the vets is probably more educational. Teaming against the vets is probably more fun (for both sides).
While you might learn some things a bit faster by teaming with the vets, I maintain there are some things you just can't learn like that. Things that your vet partner simply won't tell you. And I agree with you, it is alot more fun.

[rdonj]

One of us was going to sub for another noob in the first game, and it didn't work out. One of the nations ended up staling anyway. So if you do it you will have to use the other key or one of the two turns will stale.

[Septimius Severus]

One of us was going to sub for another noob in the first game, and it didn't work out. One of the nations ended up staling anyway. So if you do it you will have to use the other key or one of the two turns will stale.
QM must have used the other key as the turn came in anyway.

Of course, if Thedemon, will be out for any length of time, Namad should called in to take over.

Game report: Noobs have had some victories of late, could the tide be turning against the vets? Stay tuned.

[Lingchih]

We still have not heard from TheDemon. I assume after the move, he has no internet access. If we do need to sub out for a while, Zeldor would be the first choice, and then Namad.

And I have not yet heard about any victories, but then the team seems to be mostly offline, perhaps due to the late night last night. C'tis raided me some. Not a big deal.

[quantum_mechani]

QM must have used the other key as the turn came in anyway.
Nope, used the same key.

[Lingchih]

I've only run into the CD Key violation on server based games. Not in PBEM.

[Septimius Severus]

We still have not heard from TheDemon. I assume after the move, he has no internet access. If we do need to sub out for a while, Zeldor would be the first choice, and then Namad.

Oh yes, Zeldor that is whom I meant.

[Septimius Severus]

I've only run into the CD Key violation on server based games. Not in PBEM.
We ran into it last game, Rdonj can vouch for it. How then does one account for it?

[Lingchih]

I think QM is willing to both his and Caelum's turns until TheDemon returns.

As for the CD key violation, I don't know. I have only run into it on network server games, but you say it does happen in PBEM? I guess we shall have to investigate it more.

[atul]

Hm. Only noob victory I'm aware of was a successful assasination of my Fishman commander. Congrats, some troops didn't get to participate in Siege of Abysia! Too bad (for you) there are hundreds of us already there!

[TheDemon]

I'm back. I've asked that qm take one more turn for me. If you could switch emails back after the current turn hosts, I should be able to continue playing as I was before.

[Ironhawk]

Game report: Noobs have had some victories of late, could the tide be turning against the vets? Stay tuned.

Hahaha, "victories"! That's cute Sept.

[Septimius Severus]

Hm. Only noob victory I'm aware of was a successful assasination of my Fishman commander. Congrats, some troops didn't get to participate in Siege of Abysia! Too bad (for you) there are hundreds of us already there!

I count sucessful defenses as victories too and some noobs were gaining/regaining lost provinces, that is something at least.

[Septimius Severus]

I seem to have reset Caelum's e-mail prematurely, but I see that QM and Thedemon were able to communicate/transfer the turn file in time. My apology.

In the event I cannot be reached and there is an issue you need addressed right away, please always remember this game has a backup Admin "rdonj" who can make adjustments in my absence.

[Lingchih]

Oh, Lanka. My dear foe Lanka. You do not attack multiple Jarls that way. I am afraid you are dead now.

[atul]

And abysia is decapitalized.

Who's next?

[Lingchih]

Mysterio looked out upon the lands of the living, and upon his future dominion, and he saw that it was good. Many of his Jarls had died, but many still lived, and new and interesting mages were his to commmand.

Abysia, the foe to be feared, was near to dead. Lanka, another mighty foe, was being driven back with heavy losses. And C'tis, that foe that was not feared, was raiding into his hinterlands, but he could not succeed. His raiding could only come to naught, in the end. Mysterio saw all this, and decided it was a good time to come into his lands, and rule his people.

[Ironhawk]

I count sucessful defenses as victories too and some noobs were gaining/regaining lost provinces, that is something at least.

Well, thats a bit much, however you do have a point. CTis has effectively repulsed two cobbled-together invasions now. He is definitely getting a major education.

[Illuminated One]

I guess the game is practically over.


Well at least I can say I killed the only eagle king that stayed for the fighting. *taunt*
More seeking arrows, right?

[atul]

Over?

Not by a long shot. It's still 9 against 5.

[Illuminated One]

Well, how about decided?

You have an advantage in provinces and income (and for one nation research).

Anyway I'm not leaving, just guessing. :)

[Lavaere]

Well its certainly over for Lanka. Took so many turns just to take there first region. And then Caelum showing up before the NAP ended halted any furthur expansion.

[Ironhawk]

Well, how about decided?

That's too strong of a term. We took the advantage early in the game and we have now capitalized on it to take out one of our enemies quickly. So our plan is basically still on track. However with all the magic coming online now there will be plenty of nasty tricks available to you to try and derail us.

Time to start innovating! :idea:

In other news: Is Sauro ever going to learn with these Hydras? It seems not...

[Septimius Severus]

Well its certainly over for Lanka. Took so many turns just to take there first region. And then Caelum showing up before the NAP ended halted any furthur expansion.
Lanka, I'm sure you have and will continue to fight tenaciously:fight:,making the vets pay dearly for every inch of sacred noob territory they steal.

You did the best you could and I for one won't have you speaking like that. The same holds true for Abysia and Fomoria.

On behalf of the noob team I salute you.:clap:

[Lavaere]

Only probably I have now is finding a way to eat me some giant meat.

[Lingchih]

Giant meat is tough and stringy. I doubt you would enjoy eating it.

[Ironhawk]

Ctis, Formaria, and Van still out with an hour left to go. Should we extend a bit for them?

[rdonj]

Probably. I will give them an 8 hour extension, hopefully that will be sufficient.

[TheDemon]

Fomoria staled last turn too, but make sure Vanheim gets his turn in. All of the frontline guys on both sides are in critical situations at this point, would be a shame to let a stale turn decide the battle.

[darloth]

I got my turn in! 5 minutes to spare!

... and then I noticed the extension. So, I'll take that back, and fiddle a bit.

[Stretch]

In too, but thanks for the extension anyway. :D Submitting my turn from work, didn't have to stop working quite so early once I saw the extension.

PS: Fight on until your last breath if you can, noobs. You might be dying, but you can still pull all kinds of dirty tricks on our vet buddies, and we're going for team victory here!

[P3D]

Giant meat is tough and stringy. I doubt you would enjoy eating it.

An it comes frozen.

[Lingchih]

Giant meat is tough and stringy. I doubt you would enjoy eating it.

An it comes frozen.

Although the lizards of C'tis seem to enjoy it. I imagine they cook it pretty well-done though.

[Lingchih]

I think Fomoria needs to be set to AI.

[quantum_mechani]

Why would they do that when they could put in a sub?

[Stretch]

Yeah, I'd rather not set Fomoria AI just yet, considering that they're right next to me and we're supposedly on the same team. They aren't in position to do much besides launch guerilla attacks on Atlantis (or rituals on other vets), but hey, that's a fun little diversion, right?

[quantum_mechani]

Actually, they border me (we have had a few battles).

[Stretch]

Cool... two players available to raid, with some nice giants. Let us contact our designated alternates to see who wants to take part in this!

[Illuminated One]

Well, as I didn't want a large empire (well, as far as large goes) with to much fighting I could imagine to switch with one of the outgoing players and try to defend Formoria if their position is still viable.

I'm fine to continue with Mictlan though.

[Ironhawk]

Are there no alternates available? Could always post to the MP forums looking for a player if nothing else.

[Lingchih]

Umm, that was bit foolish Sept, don't you think? I mean, four Jarls?

[Septimius Severus]

I think Fomoria needs to be set to AI.
QM ia correct. As this is a team game, it makes no sense to set anyone to AI. Either one of noob alternates can take over for a last ditch defense or else I'll force host till Fomoria is finished.

Any noob alternates wishing to try to Fomoria PM me your email ASAP.

[quantum_mechani]

Any noob alternates wishing to try to Fomoria PM me your email ASAP.You should probably PM them to let them know they are needed.

[Septimius Severus]

Umm, that was bit foolish Sept, don't you think? I mean, four Jarls?
Perhaps, haven't looked at my turn yet. My goal is of course to help Ctis on that front, so I imagine anything I can do is worthwhile. Btw, Ctis seems to have recovered a few more provinces that turn.

[Septimius Severus]

Any noob alternates wishing to try to Fomoria PM me your email ASAP.You should probably PM them to let them know they are needed.
I usually do both, though with Fomoria down to 3 provinces, I think I might wait and see what develops.

[Ironhawk]

Btw, Ctis seems to have recovered a few more provinces that turn.

Yeah. It galls me to say it, but CTis has actually been doing a pretty good job of keeping both myself and Nief off of his back. Which is no small order, you know. Ling and I have both noted to each other on several occassions how he is picking up on our tricks quite fast.

[Illuminated One]

Imo we shouldn't just let Formoria stale until they are out.

They seem to have many mages and ok research, even if they can't hold they could still try to inflict some casualties.

If nothing else any of the alternates could just do a turn and send their remaining resources to a team member.

[Ironhawk]

Also, if you cant get an alternate for this turn, you should just send formaria's turn to one of the other noobs. Better that someone plays it, than no one at all.

[Stretch]

Yeah we need to make a good attempt to get someone to take Fomoria's place. At the very least, free gold and gems. I forget if the capital-only summons for Fomoria are fun but at least it'd give us a little more diversity in our attack options. If one of our alts doesn't want to do it then maybe the next one will... no pressure to perform, just free reign to kick a little ***.

[Septimius Severus]

Forgot about the gold and stuff. Let's see... Who's available right now?

Only a few more hours till host, so if Grudge doesn't want it, Lavaere or Stretch can try and see if there's no key problem. If not rdonj will have to do it, as I won't be in in time to change anything. Otherwise it'll have to wait to next turn.

[Septimius Severus]

Turns out Fomoria's pretender/turn file is password protected, so oh well. If we can reach him for it ok, if not they'll just have to stale.

[Lingchih]

Nice move Sept. I'm down two Jarls now. I guess I need better intel.

[Septimius Severus]

Nice move Sept. I'm down two Jarls now. I guess I need better intel.
Hmm, have to check the turn file and see what happened. I'm guessing you counter-attacked.