Mists of Time: Early Era Game [full]

[hoo]

I'd postpone 12 hours due to llama server being en transit.

[thejeff]

The web site isn't showing the updated time, I assume since the server is down.
Hopefully it won't decide to host at once when he plugs it back in.
And hopefully LoloMo actually got sent the turn so he can look at it while the server is in transit.

[LoloMo]

I got the files, thanks! I'm off to bed now, but will work on my turn tom. I should be able to submit my file within 24 hours. If any nation has existing agreements with Caelum, please PM me the details.

[Sambo]

Hmmm, looks like it won't accept my (Lanka's) turn. Hopefully everything will work out!

[thejeff]

Fair warning.

If we host tonight due to the llamaserver's confusion, we will rollback.
Ignore any turns you get tonight. Do not upload a new turn, except for those hadn't sent yours in before the llamaserver went down.

We should be scheduled to host tomorrow 22:45 GMT to give our new Caelum a chance to play.

[Stretch]

It looks like llamaserver is hosting Mists of Time at Thursday at 1045 GMT (as I recall) and only T'ien Chi has not put a turn in. So it checked its email before hosting, thankfully! I got about 14 messages from it, as I had sent in 2 versions of my turn, and it repeated both receipt messages about 7 times. :D I sent in the "good" version again, just to make sure.

[shard]

I had put in a placeholder turn actually, but i haven't gotten any reply from llama - i'll leave it alone for now.

[GrudgeBringer]

Do you still need time in VC3? I am leaving town Thurs Morning and would like to get the turn in.

[thejeff]

Well, we're up and running again.
Due to the llamaserver's recent excursion it appears turns were not actually emailed out when it hosted. If you ask the website to resend it should work now.

[shard]

Of course, to continue the saga of tc's woes my 15 minute put together placeholder turn got used instead of the one i spent a few more hours on wheeeeeee

[LoloMo]

The Caelum nation of Eagle Kings is now under new management. After an extensive financial audit of the nation's coffers, we have come to the conclusion that the previous administration had been remiss in properly disbursing the hard earned cash of our industrious birdmen. This will not do at all. Therefore, as consciensious beaurocrats, we have decided to embark upon a rigorous program of spending. If you have gems, we have gold. If you have blood slaves, we have gold. If you have magic boosters of any path, we have gold. Contact us with what you have and how much you want for it, and we'll negotiate.

[hoo]

Should we postpone for 12 hours for those handful that haven't gotten their turns in? While it's frustrating to postpone, we need these countries active at this pt.

[thejeff]

I did. I wasn't going to, but you said this and it was last minute, so I did. I'm not going to do so again, unless asked specifically by someone for more time.

This game has to start moving. I'm happy to pause when someone is away or needs more time, but it's been 5 days. This isn't about not having enough time to get the turn done. Nor did anyone ask for more time or say they were going away.

12 more hours. Then anyone left stales. If they do it again next turn I'll assume they've dropped and look for yet another sub.

[Iron Duke]

Here I am asking for my first extension.. I'll be off the city till sunday, and won't have internet access.. I'm in a hurry so I couldn't send my turn, I'd be glad if the game is delayed a bit.. Till sunday evening?

[thejeff]

Yomi has staled for the second time in a row.
I've tried to contact statttis, who does still seem to be around the forums.

We may need to look for another sub. Does anyone know what shape Yomi is in? Is he at war?

[majuva68]

I must retire of the game. I must do a course for 3 months.My free time is out.I must retire of all my games.Sorry but I need this promotion to my job

[thejeff]

Alright. Good luck with the course and promotion.

I'll post for a sub.
As far as I know Neifelhiem is doing well. Is he at war with anyone at the moment.

On the previous topic: Apparently Yomi is in pretty bad shape. I'll be setting them AI before the next turn runs.

[shard]

Niefelhelm is at war with Lanka, don't know about anyone else.

Yomi has been in pretty bad shape for a loooong time; kudos to Stattis for staying for so long when he could have gone AI 2 months ago.

[Frozen Lama]

I think i can take over as Niefel. their position doesn't look untendable. i'd like at least two days to do the turn though since i'll likely be busy tomorrow

[thejeff]

Great. Welcome aboard.

I've bumped up the timer. one more delay won't hurt this game.

[Stretch]

It didn't get bumped! It's still hosting at 140 GMT Thursday (2.5 hours)!

[Frozen Lama]

well we're in luck since i managed to do the turn. a little rushed, but it should do. now to return Niefel to greatness. (once i clean up the organization first.)

it would be nice if my neighbors would send me a PM regarding our relations though. ;)

[thejeff]

OK, I tried again.
It seemed to work this time. 24 hours.

I thought I'd checked the first time, but I guess not.

[Frozen Lama]

ok all set

[shard]

Hiya - I'd like to request a 12hr delay I'm still out of town with a dead laptop not sure if I can get back in time

[Stretch]

I checked llamaserver and I'd just like to point out that in the last 4 turns we've had 2 stales TOTAL for the 14 nations left in the game. That's phenomenal in a game this size, especially after some of the technical difficulties/confusion we had previously. Thanks to thejeff for keeping this thing on track, and to our wonderful subs who are helping us all keep playing what has turned out to be a really fun EA game.

[Sambo]

What a wacky game. Lots of fun!

I'd like a 14 hr extension on the turn; I'm away for the weekend and may need it. Thanks!

[thejeff]

I'm abusing my admin privileges to give myself an extension. Various computer and connection issues plagued me most of the weekend.

[Frozen Lama]

does shard get an extension for his sub-hunt? its a bad time for him to stale i think

[shard]

Haven't been able to do my turns from my office for the past couple of weeks and the late nights are really getting intolerable. I'll be flying off again this December anyway so may as well look now

[shard]

Grijalva is the new High Celestial Master of Tien Chi.

Grijalva will probably need some extra time to review the past turns and my notes at hand.

It has been an extremely useful learning experience, and I am still available for consultation as at the very least I am not denied access to forums. It has been a pleasure to play with you all, and I hope we have the chance to cross swords once more.



PS - My money is on Atlantis winning, though all the nations at the edge of the map are powerful. Also, no more gemgen and non-wraparound maps for me - the advantage of starting in the corner is very strong.

[thejeff]

Grijalva should also probably send me an email address so I can switch control over to him.


As for Atlantis winning, I wish I was that confident. I'm in a good position, certainly, but Atlantis is a mid-game power, with no native real Death, Astral or Blood access. I've tried to compensate for that of course, but it's no substitute. Having a lot of provinces doesn't mean a lot at this point.

This map also had way too much water, with nice convenient chokepoints. I had ~30 water provinces before having to fight anyone.

[thejeff]

I've postponed for a day to let T'ien Ch'i sort its new ruler out.

Let me know if you need more time.

[Grijalva]

thanks for the postponement...I should have my turn sorted out by then...snd thanks to shard for filling me in on the situation of his empire...

- Grijalva

[TwoBits]

Would it be possible to have the first page updated, as to which nations are in or out, and especially who is currently in charge of the remaining nations?

[thejeff]

Not unless we can get Firewalker to do it.

The llamaserver page tells you which nations are still in, but not who plays them.

[Frozen Lama]

my favorite global!

its about to get very very cold in the world. enjoy!

[hoo]

Can we get a 24 hour delay for turkey day?

[Stretch]

Good game, shard. It was fun, and hopefully we can play in the same game again sometime. I see that the Illwinter has arrived and the Rimtursar grow restless in their slumber. This game continues to be very interesting.

[Sambo]

Can we get an additional 6 hours? Sorry for requiring more time, but our demon monkeys ate too many elephants for demon monkey thanksgiving.

Thanks, and please send winter boots and scarves to Lanka; we'll need them!

[hoo]

I just got with a rather nasty bug. In a big fight, one of my mages started off on the enemy side of the board. Needless to say, he didn't last long with cost me some goodies and an unique artifact. Anyone else had this happen? Is there are any recourse? I don't mind losing the mage but I want the artifact back. (I won the battle but didn't get all the gear). In the fight, he cast spells during my turn and then he swiftly died during the attacking players turn.

[Frozen Lama]

sorry hoo, but that's kinda hilarious. :)
never heard of that happening.. poor guy never had a chance

[thejeff]

That's one I've never heard of. Might be worth posting on the bug thread.

Otherwise, the only thing I can suggest is to request that no one else forge that artifact. If you lost it due to a bug, you should be able to reclaim it.

[hoo]

Apparently it's a fairly rare bug but people have had it before. I'm gonna forge Nethgul again and will be bummed if someone swipes it from me!

The rest of his gear was non-unique and it's not a gamebreaker. More funny in retrospect.

[vfb]

Hey, you didn't say it was Nethgul in the bug thread!

It's not a bug. He likes to blink. :)

[hoo]

Hey, you didn't say it was Nethgul in the bug thread!

It's not a bug. He likes to blink. :)

Don't think it was blink..would be embarrassing. mostly b/c he started at the other side. But i'll check again tonight.

[hoo]

Nethgul cast horror mark. He started next to enemy before the combat started. Just weird. It was the 2nd fight in the province so I think he got stuck from his positino in the first fight.

[Firewalker]

Hi guys,

I updated the player list on the first page a bit. Feel free to PM me any player changes I missed.

[Stretch]

Could we change the due time to 0600 GMT on Thursday instead of 1135 GMT Wednesday? I'm out of town on a work trip for this week and I will probably not have time to get the turn in tomorrow as we've got a ton of stuff due Wednesday that I'll be working on in my hotel. I will get the turn done on my trip just not as fast. Sorry for the delay, I will be done after Thursday and back on track after that.

[Trumanator]

Water pipe burst right over Frozen's computer, so he will probably need a delay until he can figure out a way to get his turns done.

[Sambo]

I vote to let Frozen's neighbours plunder his provinces while he figures things out.

But seriously, could I get another delay too? Major deadline Friday morning. 37 hours would be great. Thanks!

Lanka

[thejeff]

Ok, postponed til 19:35 GMT on Friday December 11th.

I'll push it back farther as necessary until we hear from Frozen Llama

[Trumanator]

I notice that people still insist on thinking he put one L by mistake :P

Thanks for delay. Hopefully we can figure something out real quick.

[thejeff]

Oops, sorry about that, Lama. Apparently my fingers have their own opinions.

[rdonj]

It's just confusing having both a llama and a lama.

[Stretch]

That sucks about your PC, Lama, good luck getting something working!

[Frozen Lama]

i managed to figure something out. turn sent

[hoo]

Need a 24 hour delay. having been able to do anything this weekend, sorry

[hoo]

As Holiday season approaches, should we discuss going off timer for a week or so? I'll be able to get the next 2 turns in no problem but turns around Christmas might be a littler trickier...

[Iron Duke]

I would like to request a 12 hour delay

[TwoBits]

And I'm going to second Hoo about X-mas. I myself will be out of town the 23rd through 26th. Might need to be ready for long hiatuses during the holiday season I guess.

[thejeff]

While I'm certainly willing to grant any specific requests, I'm hesitant to just turn off the timer.
Without the pressure of a deadline, it's easy to procrastinate even when you could get a turn in. At least for me.

[TwoBits]

OK, that makes sense. I guess just be alert to those specific requests at this time of year (I know, an admin's work is never done ;) ) :)

[thejeff]

I'm abusing that admin's power to give myself another 12 hours. I'll find time tomorrow.

[Grijalva]

sorry for the stale everyone, was stuck in an airport for two days on account of the Northeast US blizzard...its seems yet another tragedy has befallen Tien Chi :(

[hoo]

Can we postpone 24-36 hours? Thx.

[thejeff]

Tir has staled 3 times in a row.

Has anyone had any recent contact with him?
Should we look for another sub?

[Iron Duke]

Tir here, ouch!! that wasn't according to plan.. I had to be away from my computer for more than a week, hence the stales.. Also in a week I'm departing for another city for 3 and a half months, so I'll have to either find a sub or switch to ai.. Sorry people, I had been a dedicated and a patient player, this was most unexpected...

[Frozen Lama]

I was under the impression we were getting holiday relaxed schedualing. can i have a delay? say 10h?

[Grijalva]

I second that...

[Sambo]

I'd actually like a delay till after new years. It's a busy time of the year with a lot of traveling and entertaining.

Should be able to get this turn in though.

[thejeff]

Iron Duke, are you looking for a sub or should I? It's generally best if the player does, since you know the situation.

I postponed again, since you hadn't played. Should we just wait until a sub is found?

[Stagger Lee]

The new (temporary?) Thain of Tir na n'Og says hi!

All contracts and diplomatic arrangements are to be brought to our attention and are hereby subject to renegotiation. If for example Iron Duke owes you 100 fire gems, tell us, and we will return them to you in one form or another. :tough:

We would also like to ask for a reasonable extension to track down that drunken sot of a prophet of ours. He should at least know where the books were kept.

slainte

[Stagger Lee]

Are you guys still playing this game?

I'm sorry, but 3 stales in one turn seems like a lot, and we've gone a full day without a word in this thread since.

[TwoBits]

Hopefully it's just the season. Welcome aboard, BTW :)

[LoloMo]

Welcome! I'm a late comer to this game myself. Fighting is everywhere!

[Stretch]

Yep, we're still going strong here. The holiday season did screw up scheduling, though. A lot of people, myself included, were out of town for a week or two at a time between Dec 23rd and Jan 3rd.

[thejeff]

T'ien Ch'i has staled two turns in a row.
Grijalva, are you still around? I know you missed one turn during the blizzard.

I also know TC's being taking a pounding lately. If he is gone, are they still viable?

[Stretch]

He has one fort, soon to be none, or so my scouts show. Not tenable.

[Stagger Lee]

thejeff - did our agent get through the mountains? We have heard that you are very busy, but we fear he may have met a bad end, possibly at the hands of our former prophet. Or worse, he may have joined the old fool.

We still hold out hope, though, that our emmissary is simply enjoying your world famous beaches and casino, and will return with your answer as soon as his money runs out. ;)

[Stagger Lee]

Is the first page correct about who is who (with the obvious exception of Tir na n'Og)

[Amonchakad]

Is the first page correct about who is who (with the obvious exception of Tir na n'Og)

At least for Hinnom, it's outdated;)

[LoloMo]

Oops I staled. I got confused by the time stamp on the llamaserver page. It appears that the last updated time stamp is stuck at 1030 Jan 17, while the current time doesn't have a "day" designation. I thought I still had a day left to turn in my moves.

Good news is I now have twice the gold to spend!

So how are you all doing? Who are the big uns left? I can see Atlantis and Marveni as the two superpowers, but my view is limited to my half of the world.

Caelum

[LoloMo]

I just realized were still using CBM 1.5 in this game without the gem generator nerf. Anyone want to declare their clam income and claim victory? ;)

[hoo]

So how are you all doing? Who are the big uns left? I can see Atlantis and Marveni as the two superpowers, but my view is limited to my half of the world.

Caelum

As Marv, I put myself in the top 5 hopefully #3. #1 and #2 are Atlatnis/Vanehim. Caelum and Pan are top 5 as well. I had discounted Pan but he took apart TC so fast ann is taking out the Giants capitol too boot. Caelum has 4 capitols and a ton of territory so I put them in the top 5 as well.

Vanheim has at least 4 caps and seeming the entire middle of the board norther of Tir/Lanka. Atlantis has 3 I believe but a ton of SCs.

I have 3 caps and some SCs but not quite as many as I used to as I've lost a bunch in the last few turns.

The top 2 are pretty clear. Marv, Pan and Caelum all seem to make stateks in the top 5. I think Lanka could be in the top 5 too but I just don't know much or who'd they'd replace. Tir only has 1 cap so they have soem ground to make up.

That's how I see it.,

[thejeff]

I think this game is remarkably open for this late in the game. Several nations who'd seemed to be in good positions fell apart quickly and some who seemed to be far behind have moved to dominant positions.
6 of 10 remaining nations being strong contenders is rare.

Of course what that means is the game is going to go on forever, becoming ever more unmanageable.

Unfortunately, I've failed at my stated late-game plans:
...my late game plans.

Which are, pretty much, get killed in the mid-game to avoid late-game burnout.

[Stagger Lee]

Does noone fear Tir na n'Og? So my plan to have Iron Duke sing a Tuatha lullaby for 70 turns before stepping in and leading my people to victory has worked! Now for the final phase...dang...where'd I leave that notebook? :doh:

[Sambo]

Lanka declares war on Hoo's nation for declaring us not in the top 5. The audacity!

Two of the best bars in my town are called the Tir na n'og and the Iron Duke. You're all right, Stagger, for a bunch of Karaoke singers.

[Stagger Lee]

Did anyone have a scout in mictlan's cap for my assault? I made mistakes, sure, but I don't get something that happened at the end. If nobody saw it I will ask in the general thread. How do I get the debug log?

[Stretch]

Stagger,

Your light cavalry routed but got bottlenecked in the castle door. You did enough damage to Mictlan to rout his armies, but his blood fountain is immobile and your ranged spells couldn't kill it. Eventually you hit the auto-rout at 50 turns and your army routed as well. Since your army was the one who could actually run away, he won. I think that if you both stuck around to round 75 you would have both died.

[Stagger Lee]

Stagger,

Your light cavalry routed but got bottlenecked in the castle door. You did enough damage to Mictlan to rout his armies, but his blood fountain is immobile and your ranged spells couldn't kill it. Eventually you hit the auto-rout at 50 turns and your army routed as well. Since your army was the one who could actually run away, he won. I think that if you both stuck around to round 75 you would have both died.

Good, you saw the battle. Please watch it again and see if you can tell me what happened to my golems. They just disappeared - no damage taken, no reason that I can see.

[Stretch]

That's weird... it's like the game treated your high magus as the commander for the southwest golem (and it dissolved when he left the field) and the sidhe lord as the commander for the northwest one. Not sure who the eastern one was apparently tied to. They all had lower than 100 fatigue and could move just fine, but didn't move or cast a spell.

With some searching I believe that this is what you ran into:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?p=643940&highlight=golem+rout#post643940

mindless units can't retreat, and are eliminated if they should have retreated. It's in the manual somewhere.

mostly the issue just comes up w/ Golem SCs

So apparently the mindless units can't retreat, but they also can't attack if the army is in the auto-rout state. As for why they disappeared in the order they did... not sure. I feel for you though... it sucks to find out about a bug by losing 90S worth of golems and about 70S+30 other gems worth of items (that's assuming you used hammers for the items).

[LoloMo]

The Great War as arrived upon the Eagle Kings of Caelum. Uncountable awarms of Basalt Kings, amphibious monstrosities, and legions of Summoned Commanders have in a sudden stroke, descended upon the cities of Caelum. Let the cries of our fallen provinces and besieged forts resound throughout the land. Atlantis is nearing the end of its march towards Godhood! Rally now or forever live under the yoke of the Basalt Toads!

[Stagger Lee]

Thanks Stretch.

It seems to be known by some of the venerable old ones that Golems dissolve if they are still on the field at turn 50 (autorout). Now I (we) know too. ;)

[thejeff]

Yes, it's the penalty of being mindless. I've never quite seen how a mindless thing can cast spells and act on its own, anyway.

They dissolve randomly, just like any mindless unit. If you watch longdead disappear after the last commander flees or die, they don't go all at once.

What I didn't expect is that the Blood Fountain stopped acted when Mictlan routed. Immobile, so it couldn't flee, but it didn't keep casting either. Maybe I've never seen an immobile in that situation before.

[Stagger Lee]

What I didn't expect is that the Blood Fountain stopped acted when Mictlan routed. Immobile, so it couldn't flee, but it didn't keep casting either. Maybe I've never seen an immobile in that situation before.

That's why I'm here. To show you guys new stuff. I'm glad my mission was a success. I should be getting my biscuit any time now. :up:

[LoloMo]

I would like to request for a 24 hour delay of this game please. Thanks!

[thejeff]

Base Betrayal! Foul Treachery!

Vanheim has broken their non-aggression pact with us and launched a sneak attack. This betrayal shall be punished and the seas shall run red with Vanir blood.

We caution all who might think they have arrangements with Vanheim that those are little more than tissue paper.

Atlantis

[Stretch]

The generals of Vanheim will not stand by and watch as Atlantis leverages it's massive clam farming industry to drown the nations of the world under a tide of chayots and tartarians. If we allow Caelum to fall, it will be too late to save ourselves from the yoke of Atlantean oppression! Attack now, before the Basalt Kings can break out of their icy prison!

On a side note, we urge everyone who was close with Hrugner the Vanjarl to say goodbye while you still can. After inadvertently picking up an amulet of lycanthropy in the aftermath of a battle years ago, he has finally turned into a skinshifter. He went from a hale, middle-aged vanjarl to a skinshifter 442 years past his prime. Although he is frail almost beyond belief, he has still managed to be a terrible nuisance at the Vanhalla Home for the Elderly, where his constant berserk state is driving our nurses up the walls. The soul contract he signed isn't helping things...

[thejeff]

Vanheim paints their actions as concern for others rather than an open grab for power themselves. After destroying T'ien Ch'i and Neifelheim with their allies and while crushing the last of Hinnom, these protests sound somewhat hollow. Save yourselves from the yoke of Atlantis and submit to Vanheim instead? Who has shown himself willing to break his sworn word?

Yes, Atlantis is strong. Yes, Atlantis has clams. I suspect we are not the only ones and I would hardly call our efforts massive. (At least not by the standards I've seen in other games.) Nor am I the only one with Tartarians. And someone else holds the Chalice.

[Ossa]

But noone else holds a conjuration discount site I guess;)

[thejeff]

Wait, I've got a Conjuration discount site? Where? Did I take it from you? In which case it's underwater, which is somewhat limiting.

[thunderbird]

I am not long for this reality (my first game), but have had a great time! Thanks to all and good luck.....

[TwoBits]

Well played Thunderbird! I'm sure all us Mists survivors appreciate your sticking it out to the bitter end.

On that note though, I think Niefelheim needs to be set AI - they don't have much left now, and they've staled their last 4 turns.

[thejeff]

Yeah, I probably should have done that awhile ago. I'll do it tonight.

[LoloMo]

This month, swarms of Marveni troops launched multiple waves of surprise attacks on the cities and forts of Caelum. These attacks targetted Caelum cities and not Atlantis troops. Do these two super powers have a deal between themselves?

Caelum has killed multiple Atlantis SCs this turn, and destroyed Atlantis's two largest armies besieging two of our forts. This brings to Three the number of massive troop and mage armies from Atlantis that we have destroyed. Forts that Atlantis have been able to storm: ZERO. We still have a few tricks up our sleeves.

We now pose a question to Atlantis and to Marveni. To whom shall we cause the most pain? Who shall we aid?

After Atlantis's setback over the last few months, Marveni's pretender is well on its way to Godhood. They now control a quarter of the world, and will increase this to a third of the world were they to consume the fertile lands of Caelum. Surviving nations of the world, plan and deal accordingly!

Caelum

[hoo]

Hurt Atlantis, please.

We're equal oppportunity jackals. We took land from both Atlantis/Caelum and will hopefully continue to do so. We will avenge Helheim and Arco that fell to Caelum. We will continue our attacks south of the Ermorian mtns to west of Lanka/Tir. That is land that has always been promised to Marverni.


In other notes, Nifel winter has hit me. I'm not sure if my power is gonna stay on so please don't host without me. thx

[thejeff]

Hey, what have we done to you? Other than poach on your conquest of R'lyeh, I suppose, but the seas are ours by right.

We are very disappointed with the performance of our troops in storming castle and are revising our tactics. Again. (OOC-Very good battles in both castles, LoloMo. I'm still not sure how I can counter, though I've got a few ideas.:) )

With most of the world attacking us and the seas closed, we are hardly the preeminent threat we are painted as. Still, if we are to fall, we will drag our enemies down with us.


OOC: I'll keep an eye on the server and try not to let it host. Someone's generally wanted an extension these last few turns anyway. And I've often been grateful for it. :)
This game has been a lot of fun, but I'm never getting involved in anything this size again. The turns are eating up my life and getting to be too much like work.

[Stretch]

Dear comrades and hated enemies,

The generals of the Vanir feel your plight. Often, they have wished that they could merely inform their lieutenants "Go have the troops kill something, or a lot of somethings, in such a way that they don't immediately get killed themselves" and leave it at that. If only the propagation of this war did not require such diligence in its leadership. It is still very enjoyable to see the battle reports come in, even when we have to watch as another poor gargoyle loses its unlife (or its eyes).

The Illwinter recently recast by the frozen lama has passed through the planes and afflicts both the Mists of Time and our guiding intelligence's homeworld. If this new ice age should destroy the ability to send orders, we ask that hosting be delayed for us as well. Damn you, Niefelheim!

-PIMPDROTT 5000, Vanheim

[hoo]

Quick question. does Vanheim own the entire northern part ofthe world? It seems they own everthing sligtly south of Agartha due straight north across the top. I can't decide who owns more betwene Atlatnis/Van. I'm hopefully third in territory after stealing from Atlantis/caelum.

[Stretch]

Powers on and everything's fine again but with the superbowl and all I will not have the chance to submit a turn tonight. Please extend 24 hours. Thanks.

[thejeff]

Well, that sucked. My fault, but still frustrating.
I haven't had time to look at the results yet, so I don't know how bad a disaster this was.

I've been crazy busy lately, but I found some time to work on it last night, then eventually decided to postpone hosting another day and get some sleep. Except that I only decided to postpone it, I didn't actually do it.
I really don't have time for this game right now, and it's only likely to get worse in the near future. And, frankly this part of the game is far to draining for the bits of free time I do have. On the other hand, I've gotten this far, I'd at least like to be brought down under my own power. If it wouldn't disrupt the game so much, I'd probably try to get a sub, but then in a different situation it probably wouldn't be eating 3-4 hours a turn.

For now, I think the best thing is to keep playing, but I'll probably have to delay even more than I have been. Hopefully I'll have won before things get too hectic, or have been knocked down small enough that I can keep up.

Also apologies for any diplomacy I've been ignoring. That's been falling by the wayside too, which probably hasn't been helping Atlantis.

[Sambo]

Why not increased hosting interval? I'd be down for an additional 24 (or even 48) hours. Our demons will continue to plan our turns last minute, but at least we'll have some respite in between.

[Stagger Lee]

I wouldn't argue with increased hosting interval, if it will help. However, if the Lord of Atlantis would find it more helpful for the brave warriors of Tir na n'Og to join the rest of the known world in the valiant struggle to reduce Atlantean turn times by reducing their land holdings and army, we are at his service.

We just want to help. ;)

[thejeff]

While we thank Tir na n'Og for their concern and their kind offer, I don't think it would be helpful at this time. While their help might well decrease turn times in the long run, it would require more effort and planning in the short term. This would be counterproductive.

I will add a day to the host time. We've pretty much been doing that anyway.

[Stretch]

I had sent in a turn early, but had forgotten a number of key revisions and cleanup activities. As I was putting them in but before I could send the turn, it quickhosted... terrible terrible turn, and about 50 items lost due to lab filling or stupid mistakes. A good lesson on never sending in a turn before you're finished. Just wait for it, and hope it reaches llamaserver within 30-45 minutes after you send it.

Note: It just means that the forces of Vanheim will redouble their efforts next turn. Prepare for pain!

[TwoBits]

Well, recently I've been busy, sick, and injured - god, I hate this time of year :( Anyhow, I delay would be much appreciated :)

[Sambo]

The demons of Lanka will be pillaging throughout the Eastern Seaboard from March 14th to 21st. We will likely miss a turn; should we look for a sub, or will our enemies grant us a temporary delay?

[Stagger Lee]

"Noggies" is usually the last word heard before someone's gotta call the cops. If you're planning ahead for your convalescence, well, we think that's pretty smart. We'll be right here when you get back. :tough:

[Stretch]

I see no problem with a delay if you need one. If you can get whatever the current turn is in before you leave, then we can just delay the next turn until March 22nd.

[thejeff]

No problem with a delay here.

That's not really much longer than our usual turn lag anyway.

[hoo]

Can we delay the current turn 48 hours. I'm going on travel.

[Stretch]

To the Noble Pretenders in the Mists of Time,

I believe that I have your attention.

We have fought one another long and hard for nearly 10 months and 83 turns, now. Some of us have been here from the beginning. Some of us have bravely taken up the standards of mighty nations when their guiding principles could stand no longer. I want to start with saying that this has been an amazing game, a great learning experience, and that I deeply appreciate and respect the quality of opponents that made this world so rich and fun to wage war in. Whether we fought each other or worked together, the pretenders here and the guiding principles behind them have shown a classiness, level of sportsmanship, and ability for entertaining prose that I am proud to have been a part of.

Now, down to business.

I have the Nexus. You will not be able to dispel it. By the time you make an attempt that is even close to good enough, I can recast it such that it is impossible to dispel. The amount of pearls it grants me every turn is indicative of the massive amounts of forging, rituals, and in the end, time that we invest into this war. Time that we find ourselves ever shorter of.

The armies of Vanheim are large and varied. Our bag of tricks is nearly limitless. They can destroy any massive army and even chayots fall before them. Banding together, the forces of this world may be able to destroy us, but it is no sure thing, and due to our preparations it would take an eternity in additional turns before Vanheim fell. The victors would be left with an even more interminable war amongst themselves, and they would find that it took ever longer to give orders to their commanders. Perhaps, the war would never end.

You would also face my most mighty ally, the Slayer of Tien Chi and Niefelheim, she who charges into the teeth of Atlantis' tartarian and angel-filled armies with nary a backward glance, though ritual and earth attack besiege her on all sides: The Mighty Queen Pony. With her against me, the balance could be tipped to my defeat, but if she is with me we form an unstoppable core in the center of this world that would slowly crush all foes on the periphery to paste, and let us decide the fate of the world between ourselves.

You may also face, should he choose to stand with us after this new revelation, the fearsome Lanka, who fought T'ien Chi and Niefelheim combined to a standstill for years on end. His wit is incomparable, his demons feared by all, his battle-savvy unquestioned. With his aid, the Blood Alliance would be a powerful threat to all other nations and even if we were somehow defeated, it would take quite literally years to complete the conquest, at which point those who defeated us would find themselves fighting their old allies for an equal amount of time.

Were we to enter this coming conflict, the war would last for eons, and our guiding principles would soon find themselves sapped of all willpower. (OOC: These turns are taking forever to do and we're hosting slower and slower... let's not end such a good game like this!)

We have a better way.

Let us not go softly into the dark night. Let us not bow down to the tragedy of stagnation. Let us free our spirits, one way or another, to pursue other goals. Let our valor light up the sky.

We propose a vote, yes or no, to finish before the next turn hosts. Please give us all the time to see the results of the vote and respond accordingly before sending in our turns, theJeff.

If the vote is unanimously "Yes", or if at least the nations who still have a legitimate shot at victory (Vanheim, Pangaea, Atlantis, Lanka, Mavreni), then I, PIMPDROTT 5000, Lord of Vanheim, will do the following.

This month, I will wish for a death match. We will all forge or acquire whatever we can in order to slay our enemies. Given my absurd number of resources, I do not expect the loss of a wish to significantly impact my chances of winning the tournament.

Next month, we will send our champions forth to do battle.

The month after that, the tournament will be fought. Keep in mind that, though 8 nations remain, those who are strongest also have the best chance of fielding a powerful champion. However, all nations will field a champion, and may find that cunning and skill can enable a victory over a better-equipped adversary.

The nation whose champion wins will become ascendent over all others, their pretender exalted as the new Pantokrator, ruler of this world, victor of this contest. We will form a pantheon of gods behind this transcendent entity, and together our reign shall never end. United behind the ruler of this world, we will be free to explore and wage war on countless other worlds using the tricks we've honed to such razor sharpness against each other, to sow the seeds of strife and blood wherever we may choose, unshackled and unstoppable!

And now I ask... what say you?!

[Stretch]

Note: If someone still possesses the previous champion's trident, and needs that champion killed such that they may enter the tournament with a new champion, I'm sure we can find someone to help out with the killing.

A further note that this idea loosely popped into my head immediately before sending in last month's orders, and took a few days to fully flesh out. As such, I have not been preparing for months on end wishing for strength and things of that nature (as you may have guessed, my wish-caster was my arcane nexus caster as well) and will start on the same playing field as the rest of you (especially considering my mages still have not unlocked the secrets of artifact construction).

I would recommend that, if we are to agree to this final contest to end all contests, that we appoint a trusted third party to be Master of Ceremonies, such that we can send him/her our .2h files or champion layouts/scripting, in case some bug with epic death match competitions (or the fact that the game version just updated on llamaserver, after turn 84 was sent out) rears its ugly head and things do not go as planned. It would only be done as an insurance policy in case some unknown game bug were to screw things up, as this would be a fairly significant turn. We would have a little while to decide on someone from outside this game (I don't really care who) to take this role, as we'd only need to know who it was for turn 85.

[TwoBits]

Powers of the World of the Mists of Time,

Greetings from the Realm of Pangaea. Know that we too were caught by surprise by last months events, despite our usually close relations with Vanheim. Not a few among us counseled for an immediate war against the Vanir and their grievous provocation, despite our friendship!

And perhaps we would have taken that counsel, if we thought it would at all serve our purposes. But we realized that destroying Vanheim and tearing down the Nexus would do nothing for Pangaea.

If the key to the Pantakrator's throne had lain in total victory over any and all foes, perhaps we would have taken our chances on our endless hordes, superior mass-battle magic, complete mastery of magical research, and our massively expanding blood economy, and waged a titanic war of attrition, inexorably grinding down our foes, until only Pangaea remained.

After all, did we not march into the heartlands of both T'ien Ch'i and Neifelheim, and defeat their strongest defenses, with only minor losses? Even now, we move into Atlantian lands, and despite the insane amount of ritual attacks they have sent our way (and Atlantis, we are duly impressed by the shear number of Flames from the Sky, Murdering Winters, Earth Attacks, etc., you have sent our way the last few months - where did you find all the gems?), our advance is merely slowed, but not stopped by any means (for every Maenad or Foul Spawn that falls, a dozen more stand ready to take their place).

But the previous Pantakrator, in her wisdom, set the bar for victory lower than total conquest - the first to control 10 capitals would succeed to her throne, a fact we were unaware of until quite recently! That is not the kind of war Pangaea has a good chance of winning. As noted before, our armies are strong, but slow. We lack the Astral or Air magic to take ground quickly enough to do well in such a land-grab conflict. Also, we cannot hope to put up the Arcane Nexus ourselves, nor prevent another from doing so in the event of Vanheim's demise.

Then should we destroy Vanheim, only to elevate another, more nimble, Clam-fueled power, to the Throne? No! We will take this unique chance offered to make Queen Pony, Terror of the Endless Green, the next Pantakrator!

Therefore, know this: Pangaea wholeheartedly supports Vanheim and PIMPDROTT 5000 in his mad scheme (indeed, the concept of a 'winner take all' Death Match tickles the Lady Pony's fancy to no end!)!

If the other powers choose to fight on, Pangaea will steadfastly remain in the Blood Alliance, sharing in the spoils, and contributing fully, to the Arcane Nexus. We will take our chances with our faithful Vanir friends, who have always dealt with us honestly in the past, rather than take a desperate gamble to side with other powers who have no cause to love us.

Agree to the Final Conflict, and let us end this titanic contest of the Gods finish with all the excitement and drama it deserves! Or face an unbreakable union of Vanheim and Pangaea (backed by the Nexus) which would almost certainly prevail (undoubtedly after a painfully long drawn out war though).

Sincerely,

Servant of Queen Pony, Empress of the Crimson Forest, Tyrant of Merciless Wild, Mistress of the Green Hell.

[LoloMo]

The shattered empire of Caelum agrees to this proposal of a Champion deciding the fate of the world! And we will throw in whatever meager resources we have to aid the Vanirs if the war were to wage on.

[Sambo]

The Oracle awoke from her slumber, haunted by the misty visages of time past. The death, destruction, and doom wrought by her commands weighed heavily, a lodestone on her mind. Memories of those who had defied her power flitted through her thoughts. The bones of the Ulmish, long cracked by the feet of her demon armies, as brittle as their plated armour and shields turned out to be. The C'tis lizard men, their flesh long consumed by her ravenous unholy maidens, their skulls now adorning her commanders' tents. The Celestial wizards, commanders and troops traded like undesirable pokemons, vanquished like smoke on a windy day. Giants of all shapes and sizes, from the misshapen cripples, to the frozen behemoths, to the man-eating warrior kings; all crumpled beneath her fiery gaze.

Exhausted, she sighed.

And the present? The wind warriors of the North, claiming dominance. Freakish beings rising from the ocean. Druids, claiming divinity. Greenland warriors, following the tide of battle. All destined to bow before her demon armies. Rivers of blood waited, a dam barely holding the arterial flow.

Yet she was tired; tired of the planning, tired of forging items for her unstoppable war machine, tired of plucking virgins from their families, tired of teleporting forces into the ocean by accident and watching them drown, tired of... war.

The future, clouded her mind, inscrutable through the gathering storms. The proposal from Vanheim intrigued her; a tournament of the gods! Was it a noble end to the war, or a cowardly submission to a greater power? Much to ponder.

She sent for her messenger, to give word to the gods of her intent.

Tell the rest of the gods, "Let's do this!"

Her champion, Demon King Kong, sharpened his blade. He had a month to prepare.

[thejeff]

Even after all these years the ways of the surfacers remain strange. The pretender of Vanheim believes he has the advantage and yet is willing to gamble it away for time. What is time to such as us?

Still, our ascension is not assured. These battles on the surface do not go as well as we had hoped. With the Nexus draining our very magics to fuel Vanheim's power and too many other pretenders following him to their dooms, we could even be driven back into the water. There we could hold out long, but Vanheim would only have to take capitals from his allies and his victory would be complete. This gamble gives us a chance. If it fails we can always sink into the ocean depths and sleep away another age.

What if he is bluffing, though? What if his hold on the Nexus is not as strong as he claims? We will make trial of his words. If the Nexus falls to a casual attempt, then his bluff is revealed. If it stands, we shall send our champion.

Atlantis


OOC: Well that's what the old squid thinks. Personally I'm a surfacer and the time is big factor for me. I'm ready to be done, one way or the other. His estimate of my chances is pretty much on target, but I never thought I had much chance. The Sea of Ice was really what crippled me.

I am going to throw away any pearls I don't need to equip a Champion on a Dispel attempt. Why not? What happens if it does drop is up to everyone.

A couple of things I'd like to know, just out of curiosity. How many gems were in Sea of Ice and how much did you get from the Nexus? (Obviously you may want to wait until after the battle to reveal that.) I'd also be curious what everyone had for clams or other gem gens.


Pan: The fire gems had been storing up for awhile. There really isn't much else to do with them in late game and neither Vanheim nor Caelum presented good targets for mass ritual damage. Water gems are more useful, at least as long as clamming makes sense. Scraping those up was harder. I wasn't impressed with either FftS or Murdering Winter. ~1500 targets, mostly Maenad chaff and I'm getting reports of around ~100 killed? They're supposed to hit half the army and either should have a good chance of killing chaff. The Earth Attacks were more effective, especially the first round. They're cheap. The main limitation was casters, not gems. That was the only real use I got out of R'lyeh's Conjuration discount site. Not a lot of underwater conjuration spells that are useful for a land war.

Also, if we do go ahead with this contest, do you want to attack the fort you've got sieged? I've been lousy at storming this game and I'd like to see how my defense works out.

[Ossa]

Though only few aboleths remain, we agree to the proposual.

[Stretch]

To my worthy adversaries,

It is refreshing to see such support for this final contest. I am more than happy to release some of Vanheim's secrets, to ease my noble opponents' agreement to the death match (all but Mavreni and Tir Na Nog, but I hope that they agree). Feel free to test what I say here with your spells.

I have 275 gems in the Sea of Ice (18 base cost).
I have 417 gems in the Arcane Nexus (75 base cost). I didn't use all of my gems to cast it.
I have the Oak of Ages (50% enchantment discount site) which is what lowered the base cost for Sea of Ice and Arcane Nexus. It is locked under 2-4 domes at all times, and the forces within would destroy any sieging force.

My gem income is currently:
300 non-pearl income per turn.
62 pearl income per turn.
About 100 blood slaves or so per turn, easily expandable as I need.
394 pearls last turn from the nexus.

I could immediately recast the arcane nexus with 750 total gems in it (meaning, 675 to dispel it, assuming you had a cast with 2 levels over dispel's cost). If you had failed to dispel it immediately, I'd have over 999 pearls available to up into it next turn.

As you can see, it takes a little while to figure out what to do with all of these resources, as well as swap items between commanders (I've got pages and pages of amazons and such with items they don't need so that my lab isn't constantly filled, and am mostly limited in my attacks by time available to put in a turn and not items/gems/commanders). It will be nice to bet it all on one last, mad roll of the dice!

-PIMPDROTT 5000, Vanheim

[Sambo]

Sweeeeeet. So we don't have to plan to hard for this turn. Expect Dakini air-drops on random provinces.

[Stagger Lee]

We in the land of the ever-young reckon time differently from the rest of the inhabitants of this world. In fact, it does not seem like we have been fighting very long at all. However the great powers see things, we care not if the next brawl is in some miserable, hot, swamp province with no civilization or in an air conditioned facility, with all the comforts of home. Indoor plumbing, beer, food, beer ... yeah, actually we like the idea of beer. Can there be beer? If there's beer, we're in.

[TwoBits]

Would-be-Pretenders,

All who have yet spoken have agreed to this glorious, foolish and desperate last gamble. Wonderful!

Perhaps PIMPDROTT 5000, seeing as this is his mad scheme, should contact the lords of Marverni, to make sure all are willing to partake in the Final Festival of Carnage?

If all goes according to plan, Pangaea wishes to make sure it, er, understands the plan correctly - is it this month Vanheim intends to Wish for the Death Match? Meaning we have this month only to prepare?

Or did Vanheim intend to recast (or at least save the gems for) Arcane Nexus, and then make it's Wish next month? We wish to know the time frame we are operating under.

As for information on gem income and such, and other recent events of note, Pangaea will agree to full disclosure if the Last Battle goes ahead as planned. Heck, we might even be moved to create a chronicle of the incredible events of this war, at least as we recall them (we believe such a work is known as an ehi-ehi-ahr?), once this are Decided Once and for All.

Sincerely,

Servant of Pony, Terror of the Infinite Forest, the Emerald Doom

PS - Atlantis, we would not dream of of skipping out on the immanent Apocalypse at Pirenna (sp?)! Hm, two Fire Royals, a passel of Litches, and more Basalt Kings than you can shake a stick at, etc., etc.. Should be most interesting...

PPS - TNN, yes, the Revelers assure us there will definitely be beer! But for non Pangaeans, it is strictly BYO ;)

[thejeff]

How about wine? I don't think beer has been implemented. Someone should send a scout with 2 bags of wine.:)

More seriously:
Marveni is away for the weekend. I'm not sure if he saw your proposal before he left or not.

That's impressive income from the Nexus. In a game this size, even one turn with it up is almost a game winner, since you can just recast it if it gets taken down. And I almost cast it myself when Lanka attacked me, but wanted to wait for more pearls to throw into it...
I could take it down this turn, but I'd have to alchemize pretty much everything to do it. And you'd just throw it up again with more gems behind it. Waiting for contributions from anyone else would just let you rake in more gems.

275 gems in Sea of Ice? That's frustrating. I tried to Dispel it with 250 and a S9 caster, then gave up because I couldn't afford failing again. If I'd used a few more or gotten lucky it could have been a very different war.

Maelstrom was at or near the base cost. Putting too much into the gem gens just delays the pay off time. I figured if it stayed up for 3-4 turns it would pay off.

For future reference though: bonus sites don't count towards the strength of globals. You could put up the Nexus with 75 gems, but if you used 200 you'd still only have 50 extra gems.

[thejeff]

Would-be-Pretenders,
PS - Atlantis, we would not dream of of skipping out on the immanent Apocalypse at Pirenna (sp?)! Hm, two Fire Royals, a passel of Litches, and more Basalt Kings than you can shake a stick at, etc., etc.. Should be most interesting...


Great! I spent a lot of time scripting for that battle, when you first took the province. I'll have to tweak it, but I'd hate see all that work go to waste.

Not quite so many BKs, unfortunately. They're mostly sent off as thugs or just stuck underwater with no way to get on land.

[Stretch]

Interesting revelations concerning the use of discount sites... it definitely would let me cast the enchantment for half price, but I did not realize that extra gems 76 through 150 had no effect on the overall strength of the enchantment. If it makes you feel any better on your dispel attempt (which it appears was incredibly close... how intruiging that the fate of the world could have hinged on an extra bottle of elemental water or frost brand's worth of gems), dear Atlantis, I had a surplus of water gems saved up in case you managed to dispel the Sea of Ice that I eventually alchemized for other purposes once it looked like it was staying up. If it were to go down, it would have gone back up quickly, although you would have perhaps been able to move massive quantities of sea troops onto land before it kicked in, depending on whether the enchantment would take place before your move orders kicked in.

The lord of Mavreni may just be returning from his travels today. I sent him a messenger previously, but will send another beseeching him to agree the tournament so that we may 'pull the trigger' so to speak. I look forward to a turn that does not take hours to script.

I will indeed cast a Wish for a death match tournament this month (84). The announcement will be made next month (85) and we will indicate what champions we wish to send, and then the tournament itself will happen such that month 86 is the last month of this war.

[thejeff]

I think it would worked. I'm pretty sure Sea of Ice going up doesn't cancel existing move orders, it just blocks you from issuing new ones. I haven't tested that though.
Troops would have been nice, but an extra dozen+ Basalt Kings & 40-50 Mages of the Deep hitting the beaches was what mattered. Plus some Tarts and Elemental Royalty that got trapped.

[TwoBits]

Perhaps we should save the what-ifs and what-woulds until after the Last Battle has been agreed upon?

As Pangaea too had its own plans and machinations. Our own Tartarian factory was humming along nicely (Atlantis has witnessed the first experimental anti-SC fruits in that regard), to supplement our massive fodder generation and dramatically expanding Blood capacity (we pulled in 200+ slaves last month, and were gearing up for much more supply, while spicing things up with some select empowerments, etc.). And the only things capable of slowing our field armies have been the gem-expensive Flames From the Sky and Murdering Winter (OK, we'll see the truth of that boast in Pirenna soon).

But all that is neither here nor there. While the Sea of Ice holds, and Vanheim has the Arcane Nexus, and Pangaea chooses remain in the Blood Alliance (and we fully intended to 'extort' Vanheim for a full share of the Nexus, along with other conditions, in order to ensure Pangaea's support in the face of otherwise universal hostility), the Vanir hold the 'whip hand'!

That they choose not to use it to try to enslave us all, but to encourage us to partake in this most Magnificent Contest, must be seen for what it is - a great gift!

PCC (Pangaean Central Command)

[Stretch]

Brave Combatants,

My guiding principle will be engaged for much of the next couple days, but he has sent the orders that will Wish for a "death match." Please ensure everyone enough time to get their orders in, and hopefully Mavreni will agree to this plan.

-PIMPDROTT 5000, Vanheim

[thejeff]

I expect he will, but if he does not I'll make sure the game is delayed until I hear from you.

[hoo]

Since almost everyone wants to do this, I'll agree. I think I have a much better chance than Van thinks. I almost match him in gem income and double his astral income w/o the nexus. I'm also growing more quickly than Van currently is.

I figured on taking 20-30 Van provinces with my opening attack.

But if Lanka and Pan are going to fight for Van, then I can't win. I doubt I can win the death match b/c I'm assuming most SCs will be wished up.

[Stretch]

Lords and Combatants,

It is official! All nations have signed the pact, and all nations shall abide by the result of the Tournament of Champions. The Wish will be cast this month. Call forth your champions! Fire up the forges! Prepare yourselves!

The people of all nations breathe a vast sigh of relief. The constant eradication of townsfolk, province defense, national troops, and the best and brightest of each nation will come to a close. Soon, this war shall end, and in spectacular fashion. Bets fly back and forth as to what nation will send what champion, and who will win out. The populace is in a frenzy which will culminate 2 months hence when the battle is fought.

Eight champions enter! One champion leaves!

- A courier from Vanheim

[Stagger Lee]

Now that score tables are available on llama, we can judge for ourselves how this was going. I'm not changing my mind or anything. But it is nice to see that I wasn't as far out of the top five as some thought.

[thejeff]

I'm not sure how much they really reveal at this stage. They don't show blood or gem gen income. Or the Nexus apparently? Though income from it may just have dropped drastically this turn. I know I didn't bother casting or forging anywhere near as much as I had when the wars were continuing.

And the other measures mean very little at this stage.

It would have been more interesting to see the history, not just the one-turn snapshot.

[hoo]

Graphs aren't too meaningful other than I had Van pegged at 6 caps. I normally wouldn't have agreed as I can get 7 caps pretty quickly (R'lyeh falls this turn and Hel/Arco are pretty much mine). Then it's a question of where to get the other 3 and Ermor would have been 1.


Anyway, what are the rules for this contest, if any?

[Stretch]

Equip and send your champion this turn. Have the last champion standing when the reports come through next turn. Revel in victory or wallow in defeat!

I do think that it would behoove us to find someone that we could send 2h files to when we're done, just in case something (god forbid) screws up with dominions 3/version 2.34/etc and wished-for death matches.

[TwoBits]

So most everyone has finished research? I'd be interested to know when. I'm very surprised that TC finished before they were done in - I guess that makes me feel good having fought through all that ;)

Here's full disclosure for Pangaea:

Regular gem income you can see from the charts. Must have been pulling in around 100 or so E gems from Blood Stones as well. Not as useful as S gems of course, but the Blood Stones have good combat use as well. After finishing research, Slave income was steadily increasing, probably close 300 last turn, and going up quickly (lots of Transformed Pans, otherwise unfit for combat, now available; Circle Masters taken from TC; and Garnet Sorceresses; combined with a low need for cash = lots of growth opportunity). I was beginning to spam vampires like mad - might have been fun with Dom push (Jade Knives are easy, cheap temples, Dom-9 pretender chassis) and Army of Lead, etc.. Plus Tarts galore coming on line, Dust Priests, Troll Kings, and so on.

But the victory conditions would have been damn hard to achieve (and a 'traditional' victory damn long) with Pangaea's plodding style of wearing down foes with massive numbers.

Oh, theJeff, you wondered why your bombardments were not so effective? I'd guess Gift of Health helped out a lot there - 20+ HP Maenads, Foul Spawn, Vine Creatures, and such, probably hold up a lot better than the 10+ HP variety. Basically, they were just a big gem sink, although you did kill a few Dryads and Lizard Shamans with valuable gear on them with those spells. But probably not close to what you spent in casting them.

Hm, lots of interesting stuff this game. Maybe I'll write up a little AAR of what I remember after the Elite 8 is over with :)

[TwoBits]

Götterdämmerung! The twilight of the Pretenders is here. We are down to mere hours to see who shall survive Ragnarök (Lanka, Marverni, TNN, and Vanheim have yet to submit, with only about 8 hours to go until hosting).

Queen Pony, the Mistress of the Emerald Void, stands ready (or has she chosen a champion, great or small, to represent her?)!

Atlantis, the decision at Pirenna shall be decided now! We hope you are prepared - the battle should be most spectacular!

In this last month of the World as we know it, Pangaea also seeks other venues of entertainment, and to test it's strength. Marverni! We see you have many Chayots, Iron Dragons, and a Seraph, in the Yellow Mountains - we cannot let this opportunity for a challenge go unanswered, so prepare for a visit!

Others who might like to join the fun there, well, I'm sure Reality can be delayed long enough for all to give the appropriate orders.

Let us end things with a bang, not a whimper. There can be only ONE!

Sincerely,

Servant of Pony, the Sole Queen, Eternal and Alone in the Endless Greene.

[Stagger Lee]

Congratulations TwoBits and Pangaea! Two players staled, and it looked to me like R'lyeh's golem got two tries, can you escape Cocytos and get back into the tournament?

[Frozen Lama]

Could you guys post a .trn so we can see the arena battles? i assume its over now?

[thejeff]

My apologies to Hoo and Sambo for not delaying the game for them. I had intended to, but made it back to my computer about 5 minutes too late. OTOH, neither asked for an extension.

I was also concerned with the two tries that both R'lyeh's golem and Tir's Eater got and was worried that we had hit some kind of bug, but I think I understand what happened. Banishment to Cocytos does not actually kill, just sends them elsewhere. They still exist and still have orders to fight in the death match so they do.

So with that out of the way: Congratulations to our new Pangaean overlords! Can we at least have some revels before the purges commence?

[thejeff]

TwoBits:
Pirenna was something of an epic battle. It was quite fun to watch all your Maenids vanish in the first couple Rains of Stones, but then we got to prove that 2 buffed endgame armies essentially can't kill each other.
So we ran the clock out and I won. Though with your berserk Ice Devil I wasn't sure of that for a bit. I think he would have gone down faster if my troops had surrounded him rather than chasing after everyone else.

I was also disappointed that my Champion didn't even get a spell off. Petrify slowed him down and then he was in melee and just hacked instead of dropping Gifts from Heaven on you.

[Stretch]

All hail our glorious Pangaean overlords! Mavreni and Lanka were missed at the tournament, but I find it hard to believe that they could have beaten a GoH'd father Illearth wielding mage bane with a built-in army of undead, who opened at point blank range with petrify. That was quite a fine strategy. I had considered sending my tartarian blood master in with a wraith crown, but the Hat of Zapping did ok as well. My blood magic plan (claws of kokytosx2, attackx1, clawsx2) went horribly awry when Caelum's Spenta of fire started off our combat with Firestorm... 20+ blood slaves wiped out, just like that! Damn you Caelum! As soon as I saw the wave of fire come through the air my perceptions paused and I spent a couple seconds thinking "Oh... crap."

On a side note, how many military troops did everyone lose due to my armageddon? Vanheim lost around 380.

The tournament has finished and the world rejoices with the cessation of hostilities! A new era of peace is upon the world... let the drinking begin!

If anyone would like to watch the battles, the file is here: http://www.filedropper.com/earlyvanheim

[thejeff]

Of course, Illearth also got lucky and defended in both of his fights (IIRC, I know he did with mine.) Claws or GfH first round would have finished him just as nicely.
I almost scripted Petrify first myself, but decided that I wanted more scripted meteors instead. Not that it mattered since he went for the 50% chance of physical attack instead of casting every round once the petrify wore off.

[LoloMo]

My fire Spenta burned through all 30 fire gems in the first battle! Next time I'll script Living Fire twice only :)

Without the gems, the AI took over, and boy did it like prison of fire!

Congrats Pan!

[TwoBits]

New Converts to the One True Faith,

In the name of Pony, Pantakrator, Queen of Heaven and Earth, the Emerald Goddess!, all Pangaea welcomes you with its green embrace! Indeed, now that the terrible and bloody Last War has ended, and Lady Pony has Ascended to true Godhood, a new era of Freedom and Revelry shall sweep the World! Let all living things rejoice!

Your people shall be glad, as their cities are thrown down (to be covered once again by the forests), and they are released from their artificial prisons of walls, streets, towers, gates and other such abominations. Your menfolk will be relocated to reeducation camps in the wilds, there to learn the joys of revelry and a proper respect for nature, while your women shall embrace the cult of the bacchanalia, to swell the ranks of the Maenads, and enjoy the ecstasy of the Orgy with the Beast-men of Pangaea!

Let the World be covered over in mighty trees and green vines, and let this one mighty Forest be filled with wine, song, dance and carnal pleasure!

So the Lady commands, so let it be done!

Troes the Pan, Master of Revels and Servant of the Pantakrator.

[TwoBits]

I think I did get lucky in some respects. Indeed, Father Illearth (my script was Petrify, Living Earth, Reinvigoration, Attack) was on the defensive in both his fights, and that first round Petrification probably did a lot to screw up opponents' scripting. And anyone facing Caelum's Spenta in the first round would have had their hands full as well.

But then again, he came into the fights with 234 HP, 20 HP regeneration, and luck. He might have been able to survive a Gift of Heaven strike or two, long enough to get off that Petrify. And Claws of Kokytos would just have sent him back into the tournament pool (he might have lost his Blood Slaves though, I'm not sure, but skipping the Reinvigoration might not have mattered much). And in the end, he never had to even use Mage Bane.

Yeah, I kicked around a lot of ideas for the tournament. Plan A was a Blood empowered Garnet-Sorceress casting Infernal Prison (with a Bag of Winds, so the Air Elemental would be the target of any enemy spell). But when I tested it, I realized that it just sent the victim back into the contest, so eventually she would have run out of Slaves, and would almost certainly get squished by the last competitor.

I also thought about an GoRed Ettin armed with Mage Bane, the Hammer of the Mountains, and the Gift of Kurgi, but I had no Ettins in a lab when the tournament was announced.

And I also Blood empowered a Vampire Lord, with the plan to give him a bunch of Blood boosting items and Slaves, place him in the back, and scripted with Life for a Life x 5. But I worried that enemies with high HP, regeneration, and/or luck might be able to shrug it off, and toast him in close combat. I didn't even think about all the Slaves getting toasted by Flame Storm and the like!

And my Gorgon pretender was another option (armed with Mage Bane of course, with flying, and Petrification for crown control).

But Illearth seemed to have the best combination of survivability, crowd control, and offensive capability - with Mage Bane at least. If it had been wished away, I may have gone for one of the other options (probably the Vampire Lord).


TheJeff: Yeah, Pirenna was crazy! Boy, when all my Maenads got wiped by the RoS, and many other units blasted by Neifel Flames and Flame Storm, I thought I would break and retreat in the first round!

And yeah, once both sides got up their buffs, and the gate got clogged with Sea Trolls (I think the same two stupid buffed - but not with an attack bonus - and regenerating Trolls stood in that gateway for 30 or so turns, or so it felt), it was stalemate, until the timer expired. Yeah, I thought I was going to get lucky with the berserk Ice Devil, and I would have too, if he hadn't gotten in the way of your retreating Fire Snakes ;)

If one side uses storm to stop fliers, I don't know what can be done in that kind of situation.

Maybe just use the Maenads to tear down the walls, but only send in the high HP mages and some tough SCs? But then those few SCs just become targets for everything, so I don't know. In the future though, I definitely would have continued using Maenads and such on offense - they just die too easily before they can get buffed.

[TwoBits]

BTW, Stretch, Pangaea lost 399 units to Armageddon (and I saw a handful of commanders with random Afflictions too). Considering Pangaea's huge number of chaff, I think I came off pretty well there. But I'm sure Gift of Health played a big role, as it did with Atlantis' Flames from the Sky and Murdering Winter strikes.

If the Armageddons had kept up, it would have been the population loss, and resulting drop in gold and Blood Slave income, that would have hurt Pangaea the most.

[Sambo]

Tarnations!

Our plan was to bring a Mandeha. Auto darkness, undead horde, rush of strength, mists of deception, attack! By my calculations, he would have dominated.

Looking forward to the next game... on a smaller scale! Good fighting everybody.

[TwoBits]

That Mandeha sounds tough. The Auto Darkness would have been tough. Petrification might have threw off his casting though, and I think a bunch of Earth Elementals may have dealt easily with any hangers-on. But close combat in Darkness may have been rough (the Stone Bird might have helped there though).

Dang, I'd almost say "wish for another Death Match" just to see how it would come out, but now Illearth is stuck with the stupid Trident, so I guess we'll never know :(

Anyhow, I'd like to thank everyone for a cool game. Mists was my first foray into Llamaserver games, and was quite an experience, especially going from start to finish (how long was it, almost a year?).

[thejeff]

It is a shame you both didn't make it to the death match. The Mandeha would have been interesting.

I'll second the thanks to everyone for a good game, especially the subs who came in and helped out.
The announcement post went up 5/21/09 so just about 10 months. A good, but occasionally rough ride.

Unless someone has strong objections, I'm going to take the game down from llamaserver so it doesn't start emailing us stale turns.

[hoo]

Congrats to Pan and sorry I missed it. I was debating sending a Chayot equipped with either a) the unique 2 handed sword that banishes to inferno or b) Summitt/Aegis. Would also have had the monolith army for protection/regen, boots of calus for endo, and ardamon's soul trap for insta undead warriors & mages.

A good game that sadly fizzled as I think it was a long way for ending and the turns were more of a chore than a pleasure for most players. By the end, I think I have 10+ chayots/serpahs, 2 air queens, a host of golems/irondragons probably about 60% of the unique artifacts. I had a construction bonus site so I was pumping out multiple iron dragons/golems a turn. I also had the blood 40 or 50 site as well as a few other bonus sites like evocation.

I was going to unleash an offensive on Van aimed at taking 30 provinces around one of the capitols and being able to construct a lab and then take over one of the main armies using gateway. I know that Van probably had enough for about 100 seeking arrows saved up so I was preparing counters for that. I would lost a lot but I had a few other tricks up my sleeve since I had a lot of mobility and magic diversity. Still don't think it would have been enough unless Atlantis was able to get going.

[Stretch]

My last turn is available online earlier in the thread. Massive armies would fall like chaff before the might of the vandrotts and vanjarls, which could be summoned to strike at any place, any time. Atlantis and I were busy throwing SCs and thugs at each other non-stop or else Mavreni would not have grown so quickly. It was good that you took advantage, but any large armies would be decimated by an airborne strike, and any grouping of thugs or SCs would be banished to kokytos/life-for-a-lifed/thugged into oblivion. Chayots and Seraphs were not much of a trump card any longer, and Vanheim had vast blood reserves that it was never forced to use. None ever successfully assaulted a Vanir castle, and none even took Vanir lands and held them unless they were given over of our own free will. Our capitals were stuffed with troops, with more on the way should I have chosen. I was eagerly awaiting the day that someone would bring a force of note into my lands, as I had several horrible traps in wait (a battalion of immortal demiliches, more 4A vandrotts than I could count ready to unleash air magic on armies who tried to protect themselves via army of lead, high level mages in all paths at the likely attack points, ubiquitous blood magic, etc).

Regrettably, I was putting less and less effort into my turns (and trying to win the game by attacking TNN and then wrestling 3 more capitals from someone else), but were someone to launch a huge assault on me would have spelled doom for many of their raiding troops and near-immediate retaking of all lands, with horrible reprisals for any scouted armies, I guarantee you! Everything except massed tartarians would have had a nightmarish time taking down myself (or, likely, Lanka) since end-game blood magic coupled with air magic on the same unit (i.e. vandrotts, vanjarls, and dakinis) is brutally powerful. What air queen or chayot could stand against massed blood sabbath/life for a lifex4 communions except tartarians (who I do not think it effects), unless you were using blood magic yourself? Seraphs are so vulnerable to mind duel I'd hesitate to ever summon one against a diversified opponent (I had about 20 sorceresses and the skullcaps/crystal coins to equip some nice mind dueling strikeforces which took out 2 seraphs without a hitch via power of the spheres/mind duel/returning scripts). Chayots are fun but they lose forms quickly and route somewhat easily against life for a life spam, when they don't just get banished to inferno by a vandrott that they have to get a lucky roll to even strike.

[thejeff]

Seraphs are vulnerable to Magic Due, but you got ridiculously lucky with the duels you won.

Remember, though I wasn't going to point it out to you at the time, only base Astral level counts for Magic Duel. Not items, not booster spells.

I played around with the first of those duels using Ctrl-U to add chaff and rejigger the RNG. Several times the Seraph surived, I think once one of the Sorceresses suicided to take him out.

[Stretch]

Ahh, really? I did not know that! Another good thing to keep in mind for games in the future. As you can see, fantastic luck was on Vanheim's side as well! In any case, that'd lower the cost of magic dueling to just the cloud trapeze which isn't bad, and after seeing life for a life in action I have trouble being scared of any SC that doesn't have insane regen or is immune to it (I assume that undead are immune but I didn't have any time for testing late game).

[Gregstrom]

Lifeless units are immune to L4AL, not undead. Many chaff undead are lifeless, but not Tarts IIRC.

[Sambo]

Interesting, seeing how powerful the main players were. Lanka, unfortunately, was a broken nation after our war with T'ien and Neifel, and we never recovered. Our ultimate plan was to throw up a Astral Corruption / Utterdark combo and rampage through the world, but it looks like they would have been dispelled (even though we had the gems / slaves to cast them at full power).

We had just started an exploratory campaign against Atlantis / TNN, but we were seriously considering shifting course and invading our old allies, Vanheim (sorry, Stretch!), when the death match idea came up. Considering how long turns were already taking, and that we were a minor power, it was an easy decision.

Great game, I certainly learned a lot!

[Stagger Lee]

Hey guys. The second Thain of Tir na n'Og here. My predecessor was not acquainted with the theory of clamming. When I took the reins on turn 70 or so, we had some gems in reserve, but we were generating one earth gem/turn by bloodstone with no clams or fetishes. By the time of the tournament, we were getting more than 40 pearls/turn via clams, and a dozen or so fetshes. Blood slaves were impossible for me to come by. I kept hoping for my small random chance mages to produce a blood hunter or two, but I should have traded for them.

On the turn before the tournament, I got to cast my first wish. I wished for a cyclops. I got one, non tartarian, and not a leader. Should have looked at the list. I had been pumping out tarts for 6 turns by then. All bad. My best was a limp cyclops that I GoR'd anyway, and he was working his way to the front with an impressive (to my mind) army. I know I was well behind most of the leaders. Blood was off the table, and death was rare. I had Tarrasques, and that Eater, and an Air Queen.

Marverni and I were in discussions, and though I probably wouldn't have been much help, he would not have stood alone against the rest of you. A doomed campaign against Lanka would have been interesting, and hopefully fun. But against Van too? No, the tournament was the only chance.

When I subbed in, I'd only had the game a little more than a month, and I'd never seen turn 70 in MP. I found all of this new and fun, and I did what I was there to do - nobody got free provinces while I was watching. Thanks for the game, and the chance to try some things I'd never been able to before. :)

btw:I don't mean to knock Iron Duke, wherever he went. I think he did remarkably well without gem gens in this sort of game. My position was solid, and the nation is not a traditional power.

[hoo]

"It was good that you took advantage, but any large armies would be decimated by an airborne strike, and any grouping of thugs or SCs would be banished to kokytos/life-for-a-lifed/thugged into oblivion."

I think a lot of it is countering what's thrown at you and the reactor has the advantage.

I figure I'd take my licks but be able to draw you out. I also planned to attack and then script returning. So you attack me, I teleport out and re-attack outside a lab.

Marverni is a pretty solid late-game powerhouse b/c of their diversity and since every druid has a good astral/spells recruitable at every castle.

And I agree that L4L and claws are 2 gamewinner spells. But there's others as well.

I still think Van would have won since Pan was going to support him. Getting the Nexus up was the gamewinning move.

[Stretch]

I had to consult this game thread for a few things and wound up reading the last few pages. What a great game of Dom3!