Momentum 2 - Finished - Psycho/Pan wins!

[yandav]

So, nobody can spend 1 or 2 turns to get rid of me? Come on! :p

[Valerius]

Well, I was working on that until I was distracted by other matters. :) Now I'm not really sure when I'll get to your last fort in the north.

[Psycho]

Val, feel free to continue your crusade against Ctis, I don't mind waiting a bit more before you engage me. :)

[SciencePro]

I know I said I am normally a fast player and I am. But I have my wife's parents over for Thanksgiving (a big U.S. holiday) and I still have to work today. Could we do a 24 hour extension?

[Valerius]

No problem; hosting has been delayed until 7:10 GMT Friday.

[Psycho]

I am having internet connection problems again. I can send my turn from work tomorrow, I just need a 3 hour delay, so the game doesn't host before I get there.

[Valerius]

I added 6 hours. New hosting time is 13:10 GMT Friday.

[Psycho]

Didn't need it after all, internet working again.

[Valerius]

Val, feel free to continue your crusade against Ctis, I don't mind waiting a bit more before you engage me. :)

Sorry, but I'm afraid I can't do that. :) Annoying that Fire King escaped, though. I went to a lot of trouble to get him. Bad luck that he respawned right near the edge of the battlefield after being killed. :mad:

[Psycho]

Val, feel free to continue your crusade against Ctis, I don't mind waiting a bit more before you engage me. :)

Sorry, but I'm afraid I can't do that. :) Annoying that Fire King escaped, though. I went to a lot of trouble to get him. Bad luck that he respawned right near the edge of the battlefield after being killed. :mad:

Ouch, that's a loooot of thugs. Need delay - 24h for start, maybe more later.

[Valerius]

Ok, I postponed hosting. The llamaserver isn't responding at the moment but I'll have a chance to check before the original hosting time to see if the request took (hopefully it will be working by then).

[Psycho]

Well, at this point it's obvious that I can't stop Vanheim. I am just going to keep losing ground slowly, which will increase his gem and gold advantage more and more. Is everybody else content with letting Vanheim win?

[Psycho]

Another 24h delay please.

[Valerius]

Ok, hosting postponed until 7:35 GMT Thursday.

[SciencePro]

Well, at this point it's obvious that I can't stop Vanheim.

well you would have a had a lot better chance if you hadn't foolishly decided to attack me just out of spite.

[Psycho]

Well, at this point it's obvious that I can't stop Vanheim.

well you would have a had a lot better chance if you hadn't foolishly decided to attack me just out of spite.

I don't do things out of spite (although I made it sound that way :)). I quickly and easily acquired some land which was supposed to give me a better chance. Think where I would be now without that.

[Valerius]

Sorry, but I'm going to need to postpone hosting another day.

[Psycho]

Well, at this point it's obvious that I can't stop Vanheim. I am just going to keep losing ground slowly, which will increase his gem and gold advantage more and more. Is everybody else content with letting Vanheim win?

Seriously, what do others think? I am considering conceding to Vanheim. Do you want to try to do something or do you prefer ending the game?

[SciencePro]

I just started in this game - I'm not going to concede anytime soon.

[Valerius]

I hope you don't concede, Psycho. All I have done is raid - I haven't won a single battle and I haven't taken a single one of your forts. By attacking Mictlan you chose an interesting strategy - one that has held your province count even and netted you two forts while I launched my attack. Though I wonder if you might have been better off staying at peace with Mictlan and devoting those resources towards me. You certainly have the tools to kill my thugs.

As I said earlier, the one thing separating us was GoNB - gems, research, etc, were all comparable. GoNB is no small thing but let's face it: in a fair fight you are likely to defeat me. GoNB certainly gave me an edge but not as much as if we were equally good players.

As SciencePro mentioned, I don't think other nations have given up. It's understandable you'd want help against me but if the end result is you take my place, then the calculation becomes which nation and which player would I rather face in the end? I know what my answer would be.

[Psycho]

I hope you don't concede, Psycho. All I have done is raid - I haven't won a single battle and I haven't taken a single one of your forts. By attacking Mictlan you chose an interesting strategy - one that has held your province count even and netted you two forts while I launched my attack. Though I wonder if you might have been better off staying at peace with Mictlan and devoting those resources towards me. You certainly have the tools to kill my thugs.

As I said earlier, the one thing separating us was GoNB - gems, research, etc, were all comparable. GoNB is no small thing but let's face it: in a fair fight you are likely to defeat me. GoNB certainly gave me an edge but not as much as if we were equally good players.

As SciencePro mentioned, I don't think other nations have given up. It's understandable you'd want help against me but if the end result is you take my place, then the calculation becomes which nation and which player would I rather face in the end? I know what my answer would be.

This is the end war. Nobody else has a shred of a chance of winning the game (SciencePro would have had a small chance if he joined me back then), I can't believe anyone thinks otherwise. You don't need to take forts, you are winning the numbers game. Raiding and dom push are winning the game for you. Eventually you'll be able to take forts as well without hassle. Even though my defeat is many turns away, if I feel it is certain, I will rather concede than play all those turns needlessly. And stop being so modest about yourself - you are an excellent player, probably the best I fought so far.

[Valerius]

I'm not sure if I agree with your assessment (and, more importantly, at least one other player doesn't) but I see what you're saying. But if that's the case, then the role of other nations is to play kingmaker - it doesn't really matter what side they choose as it won't win them the game.

[SciencePro]

it seems to me that the only point in attacking me was to "prove" that only vanheim can win and convince us to quit.

It won't work.

[Psycho]

I'm not sure if I agree with your assessment (and, more importantly, at least one other player doesn't) but I see what you're saying. But if that's the case, then the role of other nations is to play kingmaker - it doesn't really matter what side they choose as it won't win them the game.

What I am saying is act now if you are interested in prolonging the game. If the tables switch and I become the first runner, then by all means everyone attack me. Don't play kingmaker - always attack the one currently winning the game no matter who he is. That is all.

I understand why you say you don't agree with my assessment. :) After all this is a game of diplomacy as much as of skill. The one other player who doesn't agree with my assessment is deluding himself.

it seems to me that the only point in attacking me was to "prove" that only vanheim can win and convince us to quit.

It won't work.

Absolutely not. I already said what the point was there. I still hope I can win, but it's mostly wishful thinking. You cannot win by any means. Still, that's not a reason to stop playing. I am not trying to convince anyone to quit, but rather to act.

[SciencePro]

I am not trying to convince anyone to quit, but rather to act.

Okay well then lets do more playing and less talking then.

[Psycho]

I am not trying to convince anyone to quit, but rather to act.

Okay well then lets do more playing and less talking then.

I am doing my playing the best I can. Talking doesn't hurt it. And talking of playing, I need a 24h delay.

[Valerius]

What I am saying is act now if you are interested in prolonging the game. If the tables switch and I become the first runner, then by all means everyone attack me. Don't play kingmaker - always attack the one currently winning the game no matter who he is. That is all.

But if there's no chance of winning why would anyone want to prolong the game? I understand the idea of playing it through for the sake of the game, but to keep prolonging it by one dogpile after another doesn't seem very fun. Better to spend one's time joining a new game.

Eventually someone comes out of those fights with enough power to take on everyone else. So then everyone did play kingmaker; they just weren't sure going into the cycle of dogpiles who that would be. And of course I think you figure you could pull that off in this case. :)

And talking of playing, I need a 24h delay.

Ok, hosting has been postponed 24 hours.

[Psycho]

But if there's no chance of winning why would anyone want to prolong the game? I understand the idea of playing it through for the sake of the game, but to keep prolonging it by one dogpile after another doesn't seem very fun. Better to spend one's time joining a new game.

Eventually someone comes out of those fights with enough power to take on everyone else. So then everyone did play kingmaker; they just weren't sure going into the cycle of dogpiles who that would be. And of course I think you figure you could pull that off in this case. :)

I understand your point of view. But, if people who realized they can't win the game anymore just stopped playing and went on to join a new game, that would create unfun games with massive numbers of stalers and AIs. The other solution is help the one winning win even faster, so you could go on to a new game. Both these scenarios seem much more unfun than dogpiling the strongest. Besides, what's unfun in dogpiles? :)

In dominions everyone is always playing kingmaker in some sense. That can't be avoided. For me, at least, it's more fun when it's done to create a balance of power, rather than to promote a chosen player/nation.

I certainly hope I could pull it off. So could you.

[Valerius]

But, if people who realized they can't win the game anymore just stopped playing and went on to join a new game, that would create unfun games with massive numbers of stalers and AIs.

I definitely wouldn't advocate staling/AI but I think many times there are other choices. For instance, in the first Cripple Fight game Meglobob and I fought a long war - it was a fun 1 vs 1 fight but largely irrelevant as more powerful nations decided the game winner. I don't really feel we had a responsibility to stop our war and dogpile the leader(s) but some might disagree and say we should have done exactly that. I think there's a responsibility to the game but not an obligation to proceed with a certain course of action.

Both these scenarios seem much more unfun than dogpiling the strongest. Besides, what's unfun in dogpiles? :)

Well, I guess that all depends on which side you're on. As I recall Executor wasn't too fond of his experiences with them. ;)

In dominions everyone is always playing kingmaker in some sense. That can't be avoided. For me, at least, it's more fun when it's done to create a balance of power, rather than to promote a chosen player/nation.

That's an interesting point but I have to admit if someone has been a good ally but played a better game, such that they are a leading nation and I am out of the running, I would hesitate to turn on them. If I weren't giving myself a chance to win but just helping a third nation get the win I doubt I would do so (If the third nation has also been my enemy then the decision is easy :)).

I certainly hope I could pull it off. So could you.

Hmm, so maybe it's better to be the second ranking power so that you can capitalize on such a situation than it is to be the leader who gets dogpiled? Guess I should have thought of that before casting GoNB. :)

[Psycho]

I definitely wouldn't advocate staling/AI but I think many times there are other choices. For instance, in the first Cripple Fight game Meglobob and I fought a long war - it was a fun 1 vs 1 fight but largely irrelevant as more powerful nations decided the game winner. I don't really feel we had a responsibility to stop our war and dogpile the leader(s) but some might disagree and say we should have done exactly that. I think there's a responsibility to the game but not an obligation to proceed with a certain course of action.

Yes, that is also a nice option. I don't know the exact game situation, so I can't say what I would do, but if my nation was irrelevant in the big picture, it could be fun to pursue a private little war against a good opponent.

Well, I guess that all depends on which side you're on. As I recall Executor wasn't too fond of his experiences with them. ;)

Haha, yes I remember some of his frustrations. But, there were really some over the top situations with him. He was dogpiled by 3-4 nations at times when he wasn't near to being the game leader.

That's an interesting point but I have to admit if someone has been a good ally but played a better game, such that they are a leading nation and I am out of the running, I would hesitate to turn on them. If I weren't giving myself a chance to win but just helping a third nation get the win I doubt I would do so (If the third nation has also been my enemy then the decision is easy :)).

Well of course there are different positions on the matter. I stated mine, but I respect others as well. I guess it's situational. I try to keep in mind that this is not a team game and that playing it as a team may be unfair to other players who didn't have a team of their own.

Hmm, so maybe it's better to be the second ranking power so that you can capitalize on such a situation than it is to be the leader who gets dogpiled? Guess I should have thought of that before casting GoNB. :)

It proved not to be the case in this game, but it most often is. Keep that in mind for your future games. ;) Also, there's the Sun Tzu's principle - try to appear weak when you are in fact strong. That was much easier done with gem gens. Graphs off would help as well.

[Psycho]

Bah, I just keep making one error after another. I was thinking last night over my nearly done turn - should I take the safe path and leave most of the job to Ctis or should I try to annihilate the whole army by myself. I knew a thug in the army could be my doom, but then I though "Fortune favours the bold". Yeah, right. :doh:

Well at least Ctis knew what he was doing. One of your armies is gone, although it doesn't seem like a big dent in the army graph. And Hrimmner, the most beloved hero of the Van, has gone to Valhalla. May others follow him shortly. :)

[Valerius]

Bah, I just keep making one error after another. I was thinking last night over my nearly done turn - should I take the safe path and leave most of the job to Ctis or should I try to annihilate the whole army by myself. I knew a thug in the army could be my doom, but then I though "Fortune favours the bold". Yeah, right. :doh:

Well at least Ctis knew what he was doing. One of your armies is gone, although it doesn't seem like a big dent in the army graph. And Hrimmner, the most beloved hero of the Van, has gone to Valhalla. May others follow him shortly. :)

Ha! Yeah, I was using the same "fortune favors the bold" thinking. As you know, I got lucky storming one of C'tis' forts earlier so I figured how could my luck not hold up? But it appears that while fortune may favor the bold it doesn't favor the stupid. Let the roll call begin:

* I used an insufficient force to storm a fort that I knew was strongly defended.

* Though I knew it was strongly defended I didn't know the details of what was waiting inside and couldn't be bothered to send in a test force to check things out.

* I also couldn't be bothered to guard my only province to retreat to (why would I need a province to retreat to - what could possibly go wrong?).

* I neglected to give my F1 dwarf a skull of fire so he couldn't cast flaming arrows (this is one of my favorites).

* I assigned the valiant Hrimmner to cast mistform *after* I had already cast fog warriors. While a great warrior, Hrimmner doesn't make the best decisions and promptly cast Thunder Ward, sending his fatigue up to 75. By the time he engaged the AQ his fatigue was at 98 (!).

The AQ's attack did weaken me by killing a lot of troops (skinshifters without a MR boost don't fare well against the Aegis) and causing my fog warriors caster to burn through all 8 A gems (no fog warriors for the storming attempt). But even if I hadn't lost those forces and actually had flaming arrows I think I would have lost to C'tis ... well unless I got lucky. :rolleyes:

The worst loss wasn't the troops but the cap only mages - I only get so many of those per game so each vanadrott/dwarf is valuable. And the magic items - you'll have to ask C'tis for your Aegis back.

The good news is sometime soon you can expect to see Hrimmner again in his new, higher HP undead form. :)

Anyway, nice job yandav. I didn't really want to attack that fort until you mentioned it and I'm not inclined to try again soon. :hurt:

[Psycho]

* I neglected to give my F1 dwarf a skull of fire so he couldn't cast flaming arrows (this is one of my favorites).

I saw your army two turns ago when Hrimmner didn't arrive yet and the dwarf was without the skull. But I figured you'll bring it in, so I expected flaming arrows.

* I assigned the valiant Hrimmner to cast mistform *after* I had already cast fog warriors. While a great warrior, Hrimmner doesn't make the best decisions and promptly cast Thunder Ward, sending his fatigue up to 75. By the time he engaged the AQ his fatigue was at 98 (!).

That was some bad scripting on your part, but you got extremely lucky with Hrimmner, since he managed to hit the AQ with his first strike and bring mistform and mirror image down.

Also, on turn 8 of the battle, Hrimmner should have died to aegis when he lost a MR roll, but instead lost only 15 hp and stayed alive. That is probably a bug, since he lost the amount of hp he would have normally (without heroic obesity). So, go figure my luck in this game.

The good news is sometime soon you can expect to see Hrimmner again in his new, higher HP undead form. :)

I don't know. His main advantages were the mirror image, stealth and high defence. He will lose all of those. I would bother with calling him back. Mummies are underwhelming.

[Valerius]

That was some bad scripting on your part, but you got extremely lucky with Hrimmner, since he managed to hit the AQ with his first strike and bring mistform and mirror image down.

Definitely; that's what I couldn't believe - that he scored a hit with that fatigue level.

Also, on turn 8 of the battle, Hrimmner should have died to aegis when he lost a MR roll, but instead lost only 15 hp and stayed alive. That is probably a bug, since he lost the amount of hp he would have normally (without heroic obesity). So, go figure my luck in this game.

I didn't notice that. I thought the Aegis would work like soul slay - 999 damage. But if in fact heroic ability HP increases save you I kind of like it - it would be a nice added perk of the heroic ability.

I don't know. His main advantages were the mirror image, stealth and high defence. He will lose all of those. I would bother with calling him back. Mummies are underwhelming.

Yeah, mummies aren't that great, especially because they'll disease your own units if you mix them with your armies, but I thought it might be worth it because the heroic obesity would give the mummy a decent amount of HP.

[Psycho]

I didn't notice that. I thought the Aegis would work like soul slay - 999 damage. But if in fact heroic ability HP increases save you I kind of like it - it would be a nice added perk of the heroic ability.

It does work like soul slay. In fact, the debug logs says 990 points of damage to the vanadrot. Oh, well.

Can I have my standard 24h hour delay, please.

[Valerius]

Hosting postponed. We are slackers. :) Though you ask for the delays I usually submit my turn later than you. It would be good if we could speed things up a bit for the sake of the other players...

[Psycho]

Hosting postponed. We are slackers. :) Though you ask for the delays I usually submit my turn later than you. It would be good if we could speed things up a bit for the sake of the other players...

Sorry, but I am not in a position to be able to do my turns quickly. Fighting a losing war where you still have a chance to pull it off is the worst scenario time-wise. In fact, I must ask for another 24h extension.

[Valerius]

Understood. I wanted to keep the game moving quickly throughout but at this crucial stage it's even more important everyone have time to do their turns properly. But as game admin I at least should be doing a better job of getting my turns in more quickly so I'll work on that. Hosting postponed 24 hours.

[Psycho]

I unexpectedly went on a trip for the weekend. I'll be away from my computer until tomorrow evening. It would be nice to have 48h delay.

[SciencePro]

sigh, i know that delays are necessary sometimes but this game is really going in slow-mo

[Valerius]

Sorry about that. The delay Psycho just asked for was a different situation than the recent postponements the two of us have asked for, since he was away for the weekend. But aside from this we have been on a slow pace. As I mentioned above, I need to pick up the pace myself but Psycho has indicated that he can realistically only manage a 72 hour pace. Not really sure what to do.

Having said that, I've added 48 hours to the hosting.

[Psycho]

Well, if you'd prefer I can try to find a sub. I just don't know how any sub would be able to stay alive for more than a few turns, especially if doing their turns in 48h.

[Valerius]

No, I don't want that. It's a tough situation when you reach the late game balancing between people you have lengthy turns and others who don't. How about we go with 72 hours during the week (but stick with 72 and not go to a fourth day) and try to get turns done in 48 hours over weekend?

[Psycho]

I can't promise anything. I am doing my turns as fast as I can. I can only be less thorough, but then I might as well concede now.

Suggestion to people with more time: join more games.

[AreaOfEffect]

Also, on turn 8 of the battle, Hrimmner should have died to aegis when he lost a MR roll, but instead lost only 15 hp and stayed alive. That is probably a bug, since he lost the amount of hp he would have normally (without heroic obesity). So, go figure my luck in this game.

The Aegis does a death attack, just the same as soul slay. However, a dominions style death attack is nothing more then an absurd amount of damage, namely a base damage of 999. The actual damage will very from this amount based on DRN rolls from both sides.

This leads to several interesting details. Though improbably, it is possible for a DNR roll to decrease this damage to a survivable level. Since it is also simply just a lot of damage, it also means that units with a second forms may be able to survive the attack.

If the a unit took only 15 points of damage while attacking you, it is more likely that they succeeded on the MR check versus the Medusa effect and instead took damage from another effect, such as charged body, which is auto-cast on any unit wearing copper plate.

[Psycho]

The Aegis does a death attack, just the same as soul slay. However, a dominions style death attack is nothing more then an absurd amount of damage, namely a base damage of 999. The actual damage will very from this amount based on DRN rolls from both sides.

This leads to several interesting details. Though improbably, it is possible for a DNR roll to decrease this damage to a survivable level. Since it is also simply just a lot of damage, it also means that units with a second forms may be able to survive the attack.

If the a unit took only 15 points of damage while attacking you, it is more likely that they succeeded on the MR check versus the Medusa effect and instead took damage from another effect, such as charged body, which is auto-cast on any unit wearing copper plate.

Yes, I know about this. I once saw a feebleminded sphinx with 1400 hp survive a soul slay and lose around 1000 hp. But, here the debug log actually said 990 damage, so that's it.

There was no other effect that could have made damage to the Vanadrott. He had all possible resistances and the only other damage dealing thingy on my AQ was a single lightning swarm attack.

[Valerius]

Well, that was certainly a fiasco. You taking GoNB bounty was bad ... but expected. With Mother Oak, your natural N income and those forest provinces I expected you to take it a long time ago. But it's the little things that get me: of all the commanders in that province your vampire assassin had to target my S random spectre, me not assigning bodyguards and forgetting to script returning on the aforementioned spectre (though I nicely gave him the gems for it), losing a thug to harpies, etc. Really just a bad turn. :sick:

On the bright side, this makes clear to all nations who the real threat in this game is. :)

[Psycho]

Well, that was certainly a fiasco. You taking GoNB bounty was bad ... but expected. With Mother Oak, your natural N income and those forest provinces I expected you to take it a long time ago. But it's the little things that get me: of all the commanders in that province your vampire assassin had to target my S random spectre, me not assigning bodyguards and forgetting to script returning on the aforementioned spectre (though I nicely gave him the gems for it), losing a thug to harpies, etc. Really just a bad turn. :sick:

On the bright side, this makes clear to all nations who the real threat in this game is. :)

Bah, with GoNB I only managed to equal our incomes and you have ~20 turns of accumulated income. Research was the problem in taking it sooner.

You had many commanders in the province? I figured you gatewayed troops in with the specter and had at most a few thugs teleporting from there who therefore couldn't get targeted. Finally some luck for me then.

You didn't lose a thug to harpies (to my great dismay), he managed to retreat. You did lose Ganglere, though, so my curse upon your thugs may be starting to fulfill. You had some bad luck this turn, but nothing mayor. I still lost more since the beginning of the war and I pull in less money and gems, not to speak of blood slaves. How on earth can you afford to spam those dark citadels around?

[Psycho]

Sorry guys, I am going to need another 24h.

[Valerius]

Sorry guys, I am going to need another 24h.

Ok, hosting postponed.

Bah, with GoNB I only managed to equal our incomes and you have ~20 turns of accumulated income.

I do have the advantage of the accumulate income (though I'm not sure I've capitalized very well on that) but you have a 700 gold income advantage now and since we take turns exchanging provinces once you take back the ones I've raided recently your strong dominion in those provinces will push your income far ahead of mine.

You had many commanders in the province? I figured you gatewayed troops in with the specter and had at most a few thugs teleporting from there who therefore couldn't get targeted. Finally some luck for me then.

I had enough commanders that a single assassin managing to target my spectre was not too likely. But the really frustrating thing is that I forgot to script returning.

You did lose Ganglere, though, so my curse upon your thugs may be starting to fulfill.

That's right, poor Ganglere. Stupid life for a life. :mad:

How on earth can you afford to spam those dark citadels around?

A better question is how did you get enough blood slaves for that army of vampire lords you've got. :)

[Psycho]

I do have the advantage of the accumulate income (though I'm not sure I've capitalized very well on that) but you have a 700 gold income advantage now and since we take turns exchanging provinces once you take back the ones I've raided recently your strong dominion in those provinces will push your income far ahead of mine.

That's an "if", not a "when".

A better question is how did you get enough blood slaves for that army of vampire lords you've got. :)

I summoned them one by one over a looong period of time. They were pretty much central to my strategy.

[Valerius]

A better question is how did you get enough blood slaves for that army of vampire lords you've got. :)

I summoned them one by one over a looong period of time. They were pretty much central to my strategy.

I also found it took a long time to accumulate them the one time I tried it which is why I'm impressed with how many you have.

I've got a bit of a problem. Whenever I try to view my turn I get a message that "turn file is corrupted" and the game quits. I found this thread (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=40777) on the topic and I'll try the suggestions mentioned there, though they didn't work in that case. In that case the problem resolved itself by having the person with the message stale a turn. If I am the only one affected by this I'm inclined to do the same. Could I ask, though, that the Pan vs. Van/Mictlan war be put on hold for one turn since I can't view my current turn or respond to anything that happened? And out of curiosity I'd be interested in any highlights I missed this turn. :)

[Psycho]

Nothing major happened. We exchanged some provinces, so we are still on the same numbers. You lost two thugs. Mictlan took my castle. That's pretty much it.

I had the corrupted turn problem once, and I resolved it back then, but can't remember how. Maybe we even did a rollback. I have no problem with stopping the wars for a turn. Maybe even everyone taking a stale wouldn't be a bad idea.

[SciencePro]

Okay I won't attack anyone this turn as instructed. If there is anything else differently I should do let me know

by the way I will be out of town dec 24-27 and would appreciate a holiday hiatus.

[Valerius]

Thanks, guys. I wasn't clear from the other thread if a rollback would help - since they rolled back so many times for various reasons - and I figure with that incertainty it might be best to proceed rather than deal with the drawbacks of a rollback. I appreciate the offer of everyone staling but I think as long as the war is put on hold you can complete the rest of your turns. I will have a chance today to reinstall the game and if I have any luck I'll let you know and we can proceed as normal.

SciencePro, no problem with the holiday break. I'll postpone hosting as needed.

[Psycho]

So, you don't mind any defensive actions? If there is anything you think would be out of line to do, please say.

If you can't get your turn to work, we should hurry this turn, since there is going to be no battle planning. I can finish mine in 10 mins.

[Valerius]

No, go ahead with any non-combat actions. Last turn you had one of my forts under siege. I'm not sure if there's more now but if you could avoid adding troops to any sieging forces I'd appreciate it (no need to lift the siege - just not add to your forces there).

Just so everyone is clear: Pan, Van and Mictlan will not fight this turn, Eriu and C'tis can continue with their fight since this doesn't affect them.

[Psycho]

You lifted that siege, so don't worry about it. You lost the thugs in 106 and 123.

If Mictlan wants to continue fighting this turn that is fine by me. We can only make a ceasefire between Van and Pan.

[Valerius]

You lifted that siege, so don't worry about it. You lost the thugs in 106 and 123.

Thanks for the info. Life for a life got them, I assume? Did we fight a battle in 69? (Aside from your monthly scout visits :))

If Mictlan wants to continue fighting this turn that is fine by me. We can only make a ceasefire between Van and Pan.

I'd like to request the ceasefire apply to you and Mictlan as well since with me out of action you can bring more forces to bear against him. I think SciencePro would agree but if he says otherwise then of course whatever you two agree on.

Also, I tried loading the turn on a different computer and got the same result so we will proceed with this plan. Once all turns are in I will force hosting.

[Psycho]

You lifted that siege, so don't worry about it. You lost the thugs in 106 and 123.

Thanks for the info. Life for a life got them, I assume? Did we fight a battle in 69? (Aside from your monthly scout visits :))

No and no. One thug was killed by my pan thug, the other by overwhelming pd and no retreat route. My harpy made her regular monthly visit to 69.

If Mictlan wants to continue fighting this turn that is fine by me. We can only make a ceasefire between Van and Pan.

I'd like to request the ceasefire apply to you and Mictlan as well since with me out of action you can bring more forces to bear against him. I think SciencePro would agree but if he says otherwise then of course whatever you two agree on.

Also, I tried loading the turn on a different computer and got the same result so we will proceed with this plan. Once all turns are in I will force hosting.

I'll wait for SciencePro to reply about this. Whatever he decides will be final.

[SciencePro]

a one-turn truce is fine by me.

[Valerius]

I forced hosting and can open my current turn so we're good to go.

[Psycho]

Valerius, glad to hear your problem is resolved.

While SciencePro said that he wants a one turn truce, he didn't act like that. He mind-hunted and killed my harpy that was carrying 19 death gems. So, what are we going to do about that?

[SciencePro]

anonymous attacks don't count. That could have been anyone...

[PsiSoldier]

Notice, he didnt say, "It wasn't me" hehe.

[Psycho]

anonymous attacks don't count. That could have been anyone...

I honestly don't understand why you are being such a jerk. I offered you to choose whether you want to fight the turn or not. You said no and then decided it would be nice to do some mind hunts? :confused: Seriously, what is your problem? From now on you are on my black list. I will not participate in any more games with you. Just stop and think for a moment about the kind of reputation you are building for yourself here and in the Setsumi game. :down:

To admin: Will there be any consequences to Mictlan player for his actions? I'd like to remind that 19 death gems is quite a lot - that's practically a specter.

[Valerius]

anonymous attacks don't count. That could have been anyone...

You can make that case within the context of the game (see the arguments re: NAPs being inviolate or not). But this was a metagame situation in which all parties to this war agreed not to attack due to a technical issue.

SciencePro, I hope you just misunderstood the context of the situation. If so, then you need to send Pan the 19 D gems and we can move on.

[SciencePro]

I honestly don't understand why you are being such a jerk. I offered you to choose whether you want to fight the turn or not. You said no and then decided it would be nice to do some mind hunts?

"SOME mind hunts?" Seriously? Exactly how many mind hunts are we talking about here? I'll admit that I accidently threw one at you (i forgot about it when I revised my turn after I heard about the truce). But the other ones didn't come from me and if you don't believe me I can provide screen shots.

I honestly didn't think to check spells when i was revising because i've been told a million times on these forums that anonymous spells don't count towards diplomacy.

But if you had a problem with it you always could have just asked me nicely on PM instead of whining about it on the forum thread. 19 D gems sent. And 7 gold for the harpy. And sorry. And merry freaking christmas.

[Psycho]

"SOME mind hunts?" Seriously? Exactly how many mind hunts are we talking about here? I'll admit that I accidently threw one at you (i forgot about it when I revised my turn after I heard about the truce). But the other ones didn't come from me and if you don't believe me I can provide screen shots.

I honestly didn't think to check spells when i was revising because i've been told a million times on these forums that anonymous spells don't count towards diplomacy.

But if you had a problem with it you always could have just asked me nicely on PM instead of whining about it on the forum thread. 19 D gems sent. And 7 gold for the harpy. And sorry. And merry freaking christmas.

There was one mind hunt, but that's all it takes. If you threw it accidentally, then you could have said so in the first post and apologized, instead of being immature.

Wherever you heard that anonymous spell don't count towards diplomacy, you heard wrong. Each player decides for himself what he will take into account when conducting diplomacy. I can hardly believe that someone will suffer under anonymous rituals and not change his diplomatic stance against a likely suspect. Anyway, this was not about diplomacy, as Valerius stated earlier.

My Christmas in not in another two weeks, but thanks anyway. Merry Christmas to you too.

[PsiSoldier]

Meh. I dont know about the whole Anon spell thing. If I'm in a game and ive got a truce with someone I may still throw a boat load of spells at them but not physically attack. Of course I would only do that If I didnt particularly care if they tried to retaliate or not.

If I felt I could win regardless then diplomacy be damned I'm going to do what I want, the way I would look at that is "At least I'm not actually taking your provinces when I could be" In that case I'd say if the person I had a truce with really thought it was me casting and they had the balls to counter attack or hit me back with spells then I cant cry about it.

But of course thats not exactly the case here. To be honest I havent checked the game thread for a while and I'm too lazy to go back and see what this Technical problem you were having was so I guess maybe my point doesn't apply here. If there is some sort of Technical issue where you for some reason cannot actually attack then its not entirely fair for one person to be able to use spells like that if they other isn't able for some reason.

[SciencePro]

well i guess i never really understood what the point of the truce was anyway, but since valerius asked nicely I don't mind saying yes. But I figured a truce meant a truce just like a NAP is a truce. If you meant something more than that then I'm sorry i didn't understand what you meant so I don't mind sending restitution which i have done.

I do feel that psycho was a bit disrespectful in the way he brought it up but it could have been worse and I guess he may not have meant it that way. So I hope we can just move on.

[Psycho]

Valerius had a corrupt turn and was unable to do anything. He had to take a stale turn. The point was for me not to make any hostile actions towards him as he was unable to do anything to counter them. It wouldn't be fair to make any attacks or cast any rituals for the simple reason that he couldn't do anything.

He asked to extend this truce to me and Mictlan as well, which Mictlan supported. Taking the truce with Mictlan was obviously to my disadvantage, but I had no problem with it. There was no reason to make any diplomatic truce/NAP, the idea was rather that we all have the same possibilities for attacking that Valerius had - that is none.

I suppose the tone with which I brought the issue up was not the nicest, but I was pissed. I kept my part of the deal, but Mictlan didn't keep his, although it was his choice what to do. That's how it appeared, at least.

[Valerius]

I'm glad it was just a misunderstanding. SciencePro, thanks for sending the gems to Psycho.

I should have made it more clear that this wasn't a normal in-game truce but a metagame situation. Actually I should have just let everyone proceed as-is and taken my stale and thereby avoided all this trouble. :doh: SciencePro, I thought I was actually helping you by including you in the cease fire. Even though I was only out of action for one turn it was still one turn where Psycho didn't have to concern himself with me and could direct all his efforts towards you. But as it turned out, my "helpfulness" wasn't that helpful after all. :)

[Valerius]

Close call: I forgot when the hosting time was and almost staled again. I've postponed hosting by a few hours so I can complete the turn.

After this turn hosts I will postpone the next hosting by several days as per SciencePro's request.

[Valerius]

Ok, hosting for the next turn has been postponed until 10:30 GMT on Tuesday.

[Psycho]

Thanks a bunch Psi :hurt:

[Psycho]

Please extend turn by another 24h.

We should also have a longer turn over new year holidays.

[Valerius]

I think SciencePro may have mentioned in another thread that he won't be back until the 30th so I went ahead and postponed hosting by 48 hours. So it looks like we'll host once this week, then a delay for New Year's and then get back on track next week.

[SciencePro]

I just got back in town. All my little dwarves are pretty hung-over from their insane dwarven holiday parties, but they persevere nonetheless.

[Valerius]

I'm thinking this comment was directed at the Dramatica game? :)

[SciencePro]

oh yeah oops wrong thread. I was posting from my iphone and got a bit confused. anyway, i'm back now. I'll send my momentum turn in soon

[Psycho]

So, can we have a new year vacation? I probably won't start with my turn before Monday.

[Valerius]

Ok, hosting has been postponed until 9 GMT Wednesday.

BTW, it looks like my earth attacks have run their course. Nice defense on your vampire lords this turn. I'm not sure it was worth all the E gems I spent but I guess in the end I got about 6 vampire lords?

[Psycho]

Great, thanks. Happy New Year everyone!

@Valerius: Maybe it's not wise for me to say this, but you can't kill vampires with assassinations. Unless you manage to make them retreat, that is. So, you killed exactly 0 of them.

[yandav]

I've set myself to AI. Anyway, I was doomed since the first turn and the loss of my pretender.
Thanks to all of you (to Valerius in first place) for this game.

[Psycho]

Would you mind not setting to AI? Currently it would be better to just stale the rest of the turns. That way at least the AI cannot suicide itself. Val can just force host once all turns are in. Or I can try to find a sub whose only responsibility would be to hit end turn once in three days.

[Psycho]

Valerius, you own jarls are deserting you and coming over to Pangaean side. They have realized the greatness of Silena. Maybe it's time you did the same and surrendered your empire to the future Pantokrator. :)

[Valerius]

@Valerius: Maybe it's not wise for me to say this, but you can't kill vampires with assassinations. Unless you manage to make them retreat, that is. So, you killed exactly 0 of them.

Doh! I've got to pay closer attention to the battle replays. I thought I was causing some of them to retreat. Why didn't they rout? They lost over 75% of their HP more that once. Was it because they were immortals inside your own dominion?

I've set myself to AI. Anyway, I was doomed since the first turn and the loss of my pretender.
Thanks to all of you (to Valerius in first place) for this game.

Yandav, thanks for playing and for hanging in there so long. Psycho, is it really that important to not have C'tis go AI? While my earth attacks may be useless against you, I think I killed a good number of C'tis' mages in that province with them. We may as well just make it another province to fight over in our war.

Valerius, you own jarls are deserting you and coming over to Pangaean side. They have realized the greatness of Silena. Maybe it's time you did the same and surrendered your empire to the future Pantokrator. :)

I appear to be doing quite a fine job of surrendering my empire to Silena, though it isn't my intention. Nice job with the charming Pan - this war is quite educational. This does prove my point, though, that GoNB helped balance the odds between us. :) With that spell having changed sides, things aren't looking good.

[Psycho]

Doh! I've got to pay closer attention to the battle replays. I thought I was causing some of them to retreat. Why didn't they rout? They lost over 75% of their HP more that once. Was it because they were immortals inside your own dominion?

I don't think that's the case, since I did see them retreat in the past. Maybe they were too fatigued from casting spells. I didn't watch those battles closely myself.

Psycho, is it really that important to not have C'tis go AI? While my earth attacks may be useless against you, I think I killed a good number of C'tis' mages in that province with them. We may as well just make it another province to fight over in our war.

Well, it has proven quite important so far. It was a big stopper to you. I didn't know about earth attacks, though.

I appear to be doing quite a fine job of surrendering my empire to Silena, though it isn't my intention. Nice job with the charming Pan - this war is quite educational. This does prove my point, though, that GoNB helped balance the odds between us. :) With that spell having changed sides, things aren't looking good.

We are fighting in my territory all the time. Your empire is still pretty safe. But, you've been awfully quiet the last couple of turns. I have a bad feeling you are preparing something big.

[Valerius]

Well, it has proven quite important so far. It was a big stopper to you. I didn't know about earth attacks, though.

It certainly had an impact earlier in the game, when I tried to storm his fort on the cheap and payed for it. Since then I've just ignored it and to some extent (especially now that the tide is turning) I don't mind having him between us. I'd estimate I've killed a third of his mages there. I was going for another batch this turn. It's up to you: if you think it important not to have C'tis go AI we can ask yandav to change his orders and I'll just force host when all the other turns are in.

We are fighting in my territory all the time. Your empire is still pretty safe. But, you've been awfully quiet the last couple of turns. I have a bad feeling you are preparing something big.

Well, we were. As this turn demonstrated, that is changing. As for planning something big ... the problem is I'm not. For some reason, I'm experiencing financial difficulties so there's not much recruitment going on. This has made me hesitant to risk the forces I've got since there won't be replacements. I liked it better when I could max out my recruitment queue each month. :)

[Valerius]

I've postponed hosting by 24 hours since we're still waiting for most turns and we still need to decide about C'tis going AI.

[Psycho]

Sorry for not replying. I was traveling and without internet access since I sent my turn. I only just now came home and need an extension to do the current turn.

[Valerius]

No problem. Hosting has been delayed 24 hours.

[Psycho]

I cannot believe that those skinshifters managed to kill the heliophagus.

[Psycho]

So, Val, I guess you lucked into an ES specter as well. What was the idea behind Magoth and that golem - you weren't trying to magic duel with such expensive units, were you?

[Valerius]

I have had terrible luck getting S random spectres. The one I got a threw away when when I forgot to script Returning and your assassin killed him. Obviously you have at least one S spectre; I guess I should have figured you'd have mind hunt protection for your bane lord.

As far as Magoth and the golem, yes that was exactly what I was trying to do. Desperate times calling for desperate measures and all that. Of course I had forgotten that the lab in that province made the whole exercise pointless.

[Psycho]

I can't finish my turn tonight, I need a 24h delay.

[Valerius]

I'll probably need one as well. Hosting postponed 24 hours.

[Psycho]

Hmm, all of a sudden you have vampire lords all over your provinces. I didn't notice them before, it that a recent development? And look at Psi's gem income. If he uses a part of it for some research boosters, he might just get back into the game.

P.S.

Val, I noticed this morning that you submitted your turn 5 minutes before the deadline. Please don't do that. That's an invitation to stale by accident and then we are in a mess.

[Valerius]

Hmm, all of a sudden you have vampire lords all over your provinces. I didn't notice them before, it that a recent development?

I hear they're all the rage so I figured I'd get some of my own. Though I'm not sure if they're "all over". I think it's more like they're occasionally seen. All over is how frequently vampire lords are seen in your territories. :)

Val, I noticed this morning that you submitted your turn 5 minutes before the deadline. Please don't do that. That's an invitation to stale by accident and then we are in a mess.

No worries on that count. If, as admin, I manage to stale then it's my own fault and I won't be asking for a roll-back.

[Psycho]

Vamps are uber and should be nerfed back to 77 slaves. And vamp queen is uber as well.

I am going to be really busy tomorrow and will have no time for dominions, so I'll need another 24h delay. Sorry.

[Valerius]

Hosting has been postponed 24 hours.

[Psycho]

Again I got lucky while assassinating a specter. :p Was he set to retreat?

[Valerius]

No, he was set to cast spells. According to the log it looks like the vampires failed a morale check. If they could have only done 4 hp more damage to your vampire lord they could have killed him. :hurt:

With one fort lost this turn and another two ready to be stormed, this is turning into a rout...

[Psycho]

No, he was set to cast spells. According to the log it looks like the vampires failed a morale check. If they could have only done 4 hp more damage to your vampire lord they could have killed him. :hurt:

Ouch, how unlikely was that.

With one fort lost this turn and another two ready to be stormed, this is turning into a rout...

How cool is that Dark Citadel, I've never before stormed one. It would be even better with auto darkness.

[Psycho]

PsiSoldier, how should I interpret your attack?

[Valerius]

I'll need some more time for this turn; hosting postponed by 4 hours.

[PsiSoldier]

PsiSoldier, how should I interpret your attack?

Eh I hired a Merc commander hoping that she would have Magic Paths I needed but all she had was lousy Nature that I already have plenty of. So better to suicide her and get something out of the money I spent on hiring her.

If I "Attacked" you, you would know...

[Psycho]

PsiSoldier, how should I interpret your attack?

Eh I hired a Merc commander hoping that she would have Magic Paths I needed but all she had was lousy Nature that I already have plenty of. So better to suicide her and get something out of the money I spent on hiring her.

If I "Attacked" you, you would know...

I figured it was a mistake or some such, just wanted to be sure.

[Valerius]

Ha! A small victory: that annoying bane lord with boots of the planes is dead.

Surprisingly, considering your disease demon caused my golem to cast returning before he could extract the forces in that fort, the battle in 81 wasn't a complete disaster.

With how badly things have been going for me I'll consider this turn a success. ;)

[Psycho]

Good to hear from you again.

Ha! A small victory: that annoying bane lord with boots of the planes is dead.

I should have stuck to Mictlan lands now that you have all those vamps flying around. But, he has 20+ pd everywhere, so I was worried about the time limit and also figured you wouldn't patrol the castles.

Notice also the same thing I mentioned when Hrimmner survived the aegis. My bane had two extra hit points due to experience and the first disintegrate took 42 hps and didn't kill him. Too bad vamps are disintegrate machines - just 4 fatigue for one casting.

Surprisingly, considering your disease demon caused my golem to cast returning before he could extract the forces in that fort, the battle in 81 wasn't a complete disaster.

That was the idea - hoping that one of those assassins would make him return without the army. But then the first paralyze went through and my vamp queen was paralyzed for 30 turns. Not enough time to slaughter all the defenders.

[Psycho]

Can I have extra 24h for this turn?

[Valerius]

Can I have extra 24h for this turn?

Sure, no problem. Actually, Psi is having computer problems so we would have needed to postpone hosting anyway.

Good to hear from you again..

I'm afraid I haven't had much to say other than "well, there goes another fort." ;)

I should have stuck to Mictlan lands now that you have all those vamps flying around. But, he has 20+ pd everywhere, so I was worried about the time limit and also figured you wouldn't patrol the castles.

That was a reasonable assumption as I hadn't really been patrolling them until this past turn. There was actually supposed to be two vamp lords there but I forgot to move one of them.

Notice also the same thing I mentioned when Hrimmner survived the aegis. My bane had two extra hit points due to experience and the first disintegrate took 42 hps and didn't kill him. Too bad vamps are disintegrate machines - just 4 fatigue for one casting.

In a way I really like this mechanic for commanders with that much experience: they can heroically survive the first spell that would otherwise kill them. But it probably doesn't hold up as well when applied to troops with recuperation and especially immortality.

[Psycho]

Guys, what happened?

[Valerius]

$%&@*! You may have noticed Psi is looking for a temp sub while he waits to hear back from Shrapnel about a replacement CD/manual. This is why I've been delaying hosting, which I should have done again and completely forgot about. Sorry about that!

[Psycho]

I saw Psi's thread and assumed you would be delaying hosting, that's why I was surprised to see you two staling. It's a lucky coincidence I concentrated mostly on Mictlan this turn.

[Valerius]

In order to avoid another mishap this turn I went ahead and postponed hosting by a few days. The good news is Psi's order is placed so the replacement game should be on its way shortly.

[Psycho]

In order to avoid another mishap this turn I went ahead and postponed hosting by a few days. The good news is Psi's order is placed so the replacement game should be on its way shortly.

Let's hope so. I waited three weeks for mine to arrive.

[Psycho]

This is a pretty huge delay. I am going to forget what I was doing. Can't we get the game moving somehow?

[SciencePro]

Or maybe we could just all give up and declare psycho the winner?

[Valerius]

I've PM'd Psi to see if he's heard from Shrapnel and also bumped the sub request. I don't think we can just let Eriu stale but we also can't wait weeks for the game to arrive.

[Valerius]

Or maybe we could just all give up and declare psycho the winner?

I'm ok with this. I'd like to hear from Psi, though, before calling it a game.

[Valerius]

Well, we got a couple of responses so I'll switch Eriu temporarily to Alpine Joe's e-mail. Alpine played Jotunheim earlier in the game but I don't think this is a problem.

It would be nice if Psi could update Alpine on the situation so I'll keep the current hosting time at 8:50 GMT Tuesday.

[Psycho]

Or maybe we could just all give up and declare psycho the winner?

I'm ok with this. I'd like to hear from Psi, though, before calling it a game.

I didn't think you would want to end the game, so I was reluctant to ask for concession. I don't object to everyone surrendering, of course. Let's hear from Psi about it as well, provided you two don't change your mind.

In the meantime, welcome Alpine and thanks for subbing.

[Valerius]

I didn't think you would want to end the game, so I was reluctant to ask for concession. I don't object to everyone surrendering, of course. Let's hear from Psi about it as well, provided you two don't change your mind.

I like to put up a good fight but not drag the game out when the result is inevitable. I didn't think we were quite at that point - but close enough that I'd be willing to concede if Mictlan and Eriu also were. Ideally I'd like to play a few more turns and give it one more try.

[Psycho]

I didn't think you would want to end the game, so I was reluctant to ask for concession. I don't object to everyone surrendering, of course. Let's hear from Psi about it as well, provided you two don't change your mind.

I like to put up a good fight but not drag the game out when the result is inevitable. I didn't think we were quite at that point - but close enough that I'd be willing to concede if Mictlan and Eriu also were. Ideally I'd like to play a few more turns and give it one more try.

Of course. Like I said I didn't think we were there yet either. Fight on.

[Valerius]

In case you don't check the sub request thread, I'll mention that Psi's replacement game arrived and he's up and running. Back to normal hosting.

[Psycho]

I got used to momentum hosting at a certain time and completely forgot that it's different this turn. Can I have a delay?

[Valerius]

Sure, I'll add 24 hours to hosting.

[Psycho]

A heliophagus assassin with a mage bane - ouch that's nasty! I should be more careful.

SciencePro, a question for you. I cast two disease demons on your castle in Validun this turn. For some reason I cannot watch one of the battles - when I click on the "watch battle" text, nothing happens. Can you tell me if the other disease demon was successful?

[SciencePro]

i only got notification of one disease demon that killed a coutal. Then the army of the dead attacked that province and killed the p.d. there.

[Psycho]

i only got notification of one disease demon that killed a coutal. Then the army of the dead attacked that province and killed the p.d. there.

That's weird. But, I think I know what happened. The other one must have attacked the ghost riders commander and for some reason that battle cannot be seen.

[Valerius]

A heliophagus assassin with a mage bane - ouch that's nasty! I should be more careful.

I'm hoping we can arrange a meeting with your VQ. :) But the crazy thing was that the first heliophagus failed to kill that golem. I haven't run the battle in debug mode but after some good hits on the golem all of a sudden it seemed the heliophagus couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, while the golem with its measly attack of like 11 kept scoring hits on the heliophagus. I told you brands didn't need to have their cost increased - that sad performance proves it. :)

[Psycho]

A heliophagus assassin with a mage bane - ouch that's nasty! I should be more careful.

I'm hoping we can arrange a meeting with your VQ. :) But the crazy thing was that the first heliophagus failed to kill that golem. I haven't run the battle in debug mode but after some good hits on the golem all of a sudden it seemed the heliophagus couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, while the golem with its measly attack of like 11 kept scoring hits on the heliophagus. I told you brands didn't need to have their cost increased - that sad performance proves it. :)

It was a truly interesting battle, so I analyzed the log to see what went on. Here's what happened: Heliophagus started well scoring five hits in the first round. One was negated by luck, two didn't penetrate through 45 protection (23 armor + 22 shield), the last two did a lot of damage. On the second round heliophagus scored 6 hits - the two from tail are too weak and can't penetrate armor. The four from brands are all negated by luck. Then the golem scores his first and crucial hit - good roll of 33 att does 26 dmg on heliophagus, but more importantly freezes him reducing his att and def and halving his AP. From this point on, heliophagus has trouble hitting the golem and all hits are either negated by luck or can't penetrate through protection. Golem can't score a hit either, but area frost damage occasionally rolls high and slowly kills the heliophagus.

So, basically the lack of luck and cold protection cost you.

As for meeting with Silena - I'd be happy to arrange it. But since she gets homesick easily, it's going to have to be closer to my capital.

[Valerius]

It was a truly interesting battle, so I analyzed the log to see what went on...

So, basically the lack of luck and cold protection cost you.

Thanks for looking into that. I think it was round two with the golem's luck avoiding all 4 hits that left me speechless. The heliophagus certainly had plenty of holes in his defenses - I was more counting on him doing a lot of damage quickly than surviving a long fight. Even so, I think the brands weren't the best choices. I would have been better off with weapons that had a damage multiplier against undead, constructs, or magic beings (or just a lot of mage banes :)).

And now for some good news: though it may be too late to make a difference GoNB has been restored to its rightful owners. Even without GoNB Pan has a higher income than Van but at least I can actually buy mages (it's been a long time since I could do that). :up:

[Psycho]

The heliophagus certainly had plenty of holes in his defenses - I was more counting on him doing a lot of damage quickly than surviving a long fight. Even so, I think the brands weren't the best choices. I would have been better off with weapons that had a damage multiplier against undead, constructs, or magic beings (or just a lot of mage banes :)).

They certainly weren't the best choice - all my guys have 100% FR. I would probably go with something more universal such as dual duskdaggers or swords of swiftness. Or dual mage-banes, those should work well also.

And now for some good news: though it may be too late to make a difference GoNB has been restored to its rightful owners. Even without GoNB Pan has a higher income than Van but at least I can actually buy mages (it's been a long time since I could do that). :up:

That's a risky move. You can easily end up wasting a bunch of gems.

[Valerius]

They certainly weren't the best choice - all my guys have 100% FR. I would probably go with something more universal such as dual duskdaggers or swords of swiftness. Or dual mage-banes, those should work well also.

I didn't really care about the fire effect as much as I wanted an AP attack. I considered dusk daggers ... but then realized I had no one to forge them. Hadn't really considered swords of swiftness; I like them but didn't think the heliophagus was at a high enough strength level to really maximize their benefit.

That's a risky move. You can easily end up wasting a bunch of gems.

True, but I was pretty confident it would work. I've had a good N income all game and have tried to conserve it. When you took GoNB I actually had a large stockpile of N gems but it wasn't enough that I felt I could get the global back. The problem is that in order for me to feel confident of overriding your casting I had to wait a long time and, as mentioned, it may now be too late. However, I'll be curious to find out after the game ends how many gems you put into your casting and if I overspent by much.

[Valerius]

Hosting has been postponed until 5:30 GMT Friday.

[Psycho]

I am having some virus related problems. That's what happens when you let family use your computer. I am going to spend tomorrow formatting and reinstalling from scratch. Please delay 24h.

[PsiSoldier]

I am having some virus related problems. That's what happens when you let family use your computer. I am going to spend tomorrow formatting and reinstalling from scratch. Please delay 24h.

That's always fun. I had thought my computer had come down with a virus a few weeks back and formatted and reinstalled windows several times before I realized my 9800GX2 was simply dying on me. Sent it back to BFG and they replaced it with a GTX285 that I got in the mail 2 days ago. Still haven't gotten to try it out yet though since it doesn't have an HDMI output and had to order a DVI to HDMI converter from newegg which hasn't gotten here yet (By the way dont buy crap like that from Best Buy because they overcharge you about 400%, those are 35$ from bestbuy and I got one from newegg for 5.99 plus 2$ shipping). Until then I'm using a Radeon 5770 that I guess I'll sell once I can install the GTX285. Unless of course the 285 doesn't benchmark much better than the 5770 and then I'll sell the 285 since it goes for about twice as much on Ebay.

Anyways who knows, you might have a vid card or hard drive or some Ram dying that's just making you think you have a virus like I initially thought. I got pretty frustrated after about 5 or 6 formats and reinstall's and still having trouble. But I'm using win 7 and thought maybe the install process might have been screwing up or there was a boot sector that was infected that wasn't getting cleaned in the reinstall/format since it was the first time I'd been through it since the initial install. But at least I got an upgraded video card for free out of the deal or at least free minus the shipping I paid to RMA the old one.

That was all what had caused the big delay with the game earlier when I was having trouble. Ive got two 1.5TB seagate Baracuda's that are identical and accidentally clicked the wrong one to format during one of my many reinstall where I was getting tired and accidentally wiped out my Dom3 when I couldnt find the disk or manual to reinstall. Normally I physically unplug the harddrives I do not want to install windows on so something like that cant happen but after about the 4th reinstall I got lazy and it cost me.

[Valerius]

I am having some virus related problems. That's what happens when you let family use your computer. I am going to spend tomorrow formatting and reinstalling from scratch. Please delay 24h.

Good luck. Hosting has been postponed 24 hours.

[Valerius]

I postponed hosting since SciencePro's turn wasn't in with only a few minutes to go.

[Psycho]

That's always fun. I had thought my computer had come down with a virus a few weeks back and formatted and reinstalled windows several times before I realized my 9800GX2 was simply dying on me. Sent it back to BFG and they replaced it with a GTX285 that I got in the mail 2 days ago. Still haven't gotten to try it out yet though since it doesn't have an HDMI output and had to order a DVI to HDMI converter from newegg which hasn't gotten here yet (By the way dont buy crap like that from Best Buy because they overcharge you about 400%, those are 35$ from bestbuy and I got one from newegg for 5.99 plus 2$ shipping). Until then I'm using a Radeon 5770 that I guess I'll sell once I can install the GTX285. Unless of course the 285 doesn't benchmark much better than the 5770 and then I'll sell the 285 since it goes for about twice as much on Ebay.

Anyways who knows, you might have a vid card or hard drive or some Ram dying that's just making you think you have a virus like I initially thought. I got pretty frustrated after about 5 or 6 formats and reinstall's and still having trouble. But I'm using win 7 and thought maybe the install process might have been screwing up or there was a boot sector that was infected that wasn't getting cleaned in the reinstall/format since it was the first time I'd been through it since the initial install. But at least I got an upgraded video card for free out of the deal or at least free minus the shipping I paid to RMA the old one.

That was all what had caused the big delay with the game earlier when I was having trouble. Ive got two 1.5TB seagate Baracuda's that are identical and accidentally clicked the wrong one to format during one of my many reinstall where I was getting tired and accidentally wiped out my Dom3 when I couldnt find the disk or manual to reinstall. Normally I physically unplug the harddrives I do not want to install windows on so something like that cant happen but after about the 4th reinstall I got lazy and it cost me.

At first I actually thought I had a graphics card problem as well - whenever I started a 3D game or tried to watch a video, the blue screen of death would appear. It's an old 8600GT, so I though it was dying on me. But then I noticed that if I started a game as soon as windows desktop appeared, I could start it and it would run fine until I alt-tabbed from it, at which point the blue screen of death would appear again. I figured that I must be starting the game before the virus gets loaded. Anyway, I've finished the reinstall (which isn't at all fun for me) and everything is running smoothly now.

[Psycho]

:):):) Lol at that battle. My troops couldn't scratch anyone, but it was funny watching the thugs suicide themselves. And especially lich who was one square away from retreating when the lightning hit him. :):):)

[Psycho]

For some reason I thought that hosting was due tomorrow. I just got the reminder and I'm not home. Can I have 24h?

[Valerius]

Sure, hosting postponed 24 hours.

[Valerius]

I won't be around at hosting time and there's still a couple of turns missing. Psycho, I know you sometimes submit close to the deadline but Psi doesn't so I'm postponing hosting.

[Valerius]

Psi and I have talked and we are willing to concede to the game to Psycho. Since SciencePro earlier indicated that he was of the same mind the game has ended. Congratulations, Psycho! As in the first Momentum game, you fought off multiple opponents for a well-deserved win. If there is a third game in this series I may rename it the "Psycho Invitational."

I'll post some thoughts on the game later but am interested in everyone's feedback on the game settings.

Thanks everyone for playing and especially to SciencePro for stepping in as a sub.

[Psycho]

Heh, just when I was about to launch a massive attack on Psi. I have several raiding parties in his lands and made preparations to take all his lands in two turns.

Well, thanks. Since this was my only game, I will have some free time, so I'll try to write a detailed AAR. And comment on game settings, of course. Not today, though.

Thanks for the invite Val, but I doubt I'll be joining another momentum in a foreseeable future. Due to lack of free time, I'll have to stick to slowboat games. I'd like to see you all again in future games, especially Val.

[PsiSoldier]

Congrats Psycho. And yeah, I learned a good lesson from watching my pretender die in that battle lol. Ive never seen a commander use more than one extra gem for a battlefield spell before and he goes and uses 2 leaving himself with none to cast returning like he was scripted. Ahh well live and learn. At least the game went out with one final halfway interesting battle and I learned a little something. The annoying thing was that he completely did not need to use any extra gems at all for the spell being S7 casting an S4 100 fatigue spell, although I had given him one extra gem which I assumed the AI would use but using 2 just kind of flabbergasted me.

Dom3 really needs an improved scripting system to do a way will hogwash like that. But at least I now also know that I can take advantage of a commander using more than one extra gem to reduce fatigue as well, so it could prove advantageous in some circumstances.

[SciencePro]

Yes that is still fine by me. Congrats Psycho!

Good game everyone

[Psycho]

So, it's been a week, I took a rest off Dominions and I am probably going to start that AAR soon.

Val, I was preparing a trap for your heliophagus last turn. I was going to put all dryads into hiding and teleport djinn there scripted to cast gifts from heaven, which should kill heliophagus with a high degree of certainty on the first round. It's smart you didn't assassinate again. I was also going to cast Well of misery with all my death gems (132) and a D8 caster. How much did you put? My GoNB was cast with an N5 caster and 224 nature gems - everything I had, since my nature income was quite poor. GoH was cast with just base 50 gems and I am thrilled it stayed up the whole game. How much did you put into overcasting GoNB? If you're wondering, I had around 700 revelers scattered over your lands increasing unrest. I'd also like to know where you blood hunted in the end. I put much effort into trying to disable your blood hunting, but you always seemed to have enough blood slaves.

Re settings: I really liked the settings. Not having killer globals and the limited number of SCs made for a slower game, where armies played a much more important role than they usually do. I had some elemental royalty, some demon SCs and just two tartarians. Most of the problems were brought by the fact that CBM makes some spells too cheap - vampire lords, even without the summon allies command, are overpowered at 66 blood slaves. Banes are also too cheap at 4D. With the GoH up, banes essentially become bane lords with -1 att/def, for a third of the price. Even without GoH, they are too cheap compared with sleepers, for example, who aren't nearly as useful at 8N due to high encumbrance. The only complaint I have regarding nerfs that Momentum mod made is about tartarian summoning spells. The air cyclops is the best choice by far - a guaranteed teleporting SC, that can also do rain of stones. Why choose anyone else at all? The cost is too much to summon a commander that you hope may bring some diversity and there are better ways to get it. I don't know what should be done about it. Is it possible to make the spell to summon a random non-afflicted, non-insane commander tartarian?