David & Goliath - Running noob game

[GrudgeBringer]

I was asked to make sure no one staled during the Holidays....

I apologize but I let you all down and 2 people staled because I said it would not host until Jan 2ND.

I know there are people at war and I know this may not be fair to everyone but I am rolling the turn back as of 7:19 CST US time ( I 'Think' that's about 12:20 GMT).

I have included the directions from llamaserver on how to do it and what not to do...

Any comments should be directed at me as I am soley to blame as I had /have relatives in town and have had a winter storm and computer access was unavailable for a short time.

Not am excuse...just an explanation, sorry folks:

(Read this next bit carefully. I seem to be having difficulties explaining it coherently:

Note that once the game is rolled back, it will appear that the game is waiting for 2h files from all players. However, the 2h files from last time the turn was played will in fact be there, and will be used if the game hosts without them being overwritten. This can be useful; often, a game is rehosted in order for only one or two players to retake their turns, while everyone else is expected to make no changes. The game admin can therefore wait till just those players have submitted, and then force hosting. None of the other players will stale (assuming they actually submitted a 2h file last time the turn was played).

I hope all that makes sense!

[Louppatient]

No problem for me, and I am in contact with one player who staled, and at war with the other :)

[GrudgeBringer]

Now, I have a question on this turn back...

I am not sure if it means this...Say you don't see the turn has been rolled back (no one has submitted a turn yet) and you go ahead and overwrite the files but don't send it in.

Will you automatically have the previous turn sent in when it force hosts?

OR, do you have to do something because you have overwritten the files but didn't send them in?

Anyone experienced with this as I certainly am not):confused:

[thejeff]

I'm unsure what you mean by "Will you automatically have the previous turn sent in when it force hosts?"
Turns are sent in by email. The llamaserver does not know what you've done on your home computer, unless you email the 2h file. It cannot make you send in a turn.

The only weirdness I know of is that if you have played the new turn before it gets rolled back, you may need to delete the 2h file since it doesn't match the new turn information. Try this if dominions starts crashing when you open the turn.

[GrudgeBringer]

So I can't just 'overwrite' the new turn with the rolled back turn I just received and mail it in?

Brcause like an idiot I just went ahead and overwrote the turn without paying attention (I am in 4 games) and then started freaking..

[Stagger Lee]

Without looking at my turn I will say that I won't be redoing my turn. The last time this happened, I did not redo the turn, nor did I send in the same turn again. I did nothing. It worked. Please only the two nations who staled (I'm not even sure who they were, was Caelum one?) send in turns. The rest of us should do nothing. Let's hear from anyone who disagrees on this point.

GB - I think if you just delete your new 2h file and retrieve the old one from your sent emails you should be fine.:)

[thejeff]

You can overwrite the new turn with the rolled back one.

Assuming you're not one of the 2 who staled, there's no need to. Or are you saying you sent in orders for the new turn that was then rolled back? If so, then you can and should send in another 2h file for turn 27. It's simplest to use the one you sent before if your email program saved a copy. If not you can just overwrite the trn file for 28 with the rolled back trn file for 27 and try to duplicate your old turn. You may need to delete the 2h file first.

Did that make any sense?

[GrudgeBringer]

OK, I looked at the new turn...I then got the rolled back turn overwrote the new turn. I haven't sent in anything so am I ok or do I need to redo the turn and send it in...

I guess what people don't understand is ...Do we need to do anything? I mean do we need to send in the same turn or just let it go when it hosts and it will pick up the old turn.

And then there is someone like me that loaded the new turn and then the rolled back turn...do I need to redo the turn or will it pick up the rolled back turn IF I didn't send in the new turn.

IF I/someone would need to delete the old 2h file do we just go in the turn file and delete it and then redo the old turn which would put a new 2h file in the folder.

Thanks for taking the time to help us J:up:eff

[thejeff]

You don't need to do anything. The last 2h file you sent to the llamaserver will be used.

Except, of course, for the 2 who staled.

Or if you sent in the new turn before it was rolled back. Then you need to send the old 2h file back in, or play the rolled back turn and send a 2h file for that.

Don't worry about deleting the 2h file unless dominions crashes when we finally get a new turn. If it does, just delete the old 2h file and then play the new turn as normal.

The llamaserver knows nothing about what you've done, just what you've sent in. And your local dominions only knows what's in the trn file from the llamaserver and what it's written to the 2h. The only problem is when they don't match.

What I believe happens there is that dominions stores the turn number in both the trn and 2h files. If you have a 2h file for a different turn it just gets deleted. If you have one from the same turn it gives you the "continue or redo" option. If they are the same turn number, but the turn was rolled back it gets confused. Maybe there are orders for dead commanders or new recruits have different id numbers, whatever. Something has changed and it can't make sense of it. I don't know if this always happens in this situation or not.
You might even get to the Continue or Redo prompt and be able to pick Redo, I can't remember when it crashed.
If that confused you, ignore it unless dominions crashes when we get a new turn.

[Yskonyn]

I staled because I was abroad and for some reason llama decided to host. But I think I can send in the turn still due to the rollback? No real trouble if I can't we'll just continue from there. :)

I hope everybody had a nice christmas!

EDIT: Apparently I did stale twice as the game tells me that I did not turn in a 2h file.

[Stagger Lee]

Welcome back Y. Hope you had a merry Xmas yourself. :)

Who was the other stale btw? Ulm & Niefelheim are the only two who have resubmitted turns, but I don't think it was either of them.

[Stagger Lee]

EDIT: Apparently I did stale twice as the game tells me that I did not turn in a 2h file.

Currently llamaserver is not showing a recent stale by Caelum so I think the rollback will keep you current.

[Xanatos]

I think Nifleheims turn is in, I hadn't updated to the newer turn when I saw that it had staled, so I merely resent in my own turn that time, should work, no? Llamaserver gave me the OK.

[Stagger Lee]

I think Nifleheims turn is in, I hadn't updated to the newer turn when I saw that it had staled, so I merely resent in my own turn that time, should work, no? Llamaserver gave me the OK.

I'm confused. You had troops moving. Are you saying you were the other stale?

[Xanatos]

No, for the rerolled turn. I had seen the rerolled turn and resubmitted that turn file before reading the forums and also before getting the new turn file for the turn we didnt do (due to the reroll) so im still good, right? since I never changed turn files?

[GrudgeBringer]

Yes he was the other stale...

He mentioned that he saw the turn bit before he could load it he saw the roll back that I caught.

He insists that he only loaded the rollback turn and if thats the case (as thejeff) thinks, then there is no reason to wait and to go ahead and force host.

The only other (public) potential problem is ME...

I loaded the other turn but never turned it in, thejeff says that also is ok as it will oNLY pick up stuff that was turned in.

soooooooooooo, If the 2 that turned their turn in, DIDN'T turn in the new turn and then tried to turn in the rolled back turn we should be OK.

Guess we will know soon.

Should we force host NOW and see if its screwed up we can get it fixed?:doh:

[Stagger Lee]

No, for the rerolled turn. I had seen the rerolled turn and resubmitted that turn file before reading the forums and also before getting the new turn file for the turn we didnt do (due to the reroll) so im still good, right? since I never changed turn files?

Yeah, my understanding is you should be fine.

I get that we rolled back because two people staled, but are we waiting til sunday just so they can stale again? Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought Yskonen and Caelum were back a couple of days ago. When he gets his turn in we are only waiting for one more and then force host, right?

I guess what I'm asking is - does that player, whoever he or she is, even realize we're waiting for only two players, and not the whole lot of us?

Or did I get into someone's crazy pills? :crazy:

Happy New Year!

[Xanatos]

ugh yes please, I would hate to stale, ive been submitting my turns within an hour or two of each new turn going out usually.

[Stagger Lee]

Maybe I'm not picking this stuff up as well as I thought I was.

Niefelheim (Xanatos) had troops moving, so he could not have been one of the stales, right?

And he should be fine doing nothing or sending the same turn again, right?

GB, you rolled back because you said two people staled, right?

Caelum (Yskonen) was one, right?

I don't suggest force hosting until the two who staled send in turns, but if someone looks at llamaserver only, they might think we're all just waiting to do our turns on sunday, right?

So if you force host now, we will still have two stales, right?

[GrudgeBringer]

Yes Calem was one tat staled.

And YES you make sense, It seems he should submit his turn so the game has his records.

Hell, I don't know....PM thejeff, he knows how this thing works better than I do.:eek:

[thejeff]

I've completely lost track of who's done what and who needs to do what.
Who originally staled?

[GrudgeBringer]

This is what I know for SURE...Yskonyn Caelem) Staled.

I 'Thought' I saw a second nation.

I KNOW that there where 2 nations when I realized that Caelem was not back in town and the turn had hosted that has sent in turns.

Niefl and Caelem.

I rolled the turn back.

Niefl says he saw both turns and only sent in the rolled back turn and did NOT send in a turn with the new information.

I have not talked to the other team so have no idea what he has or hasn't done.

I (Arco) did load the new turn and complete it but had something to do so didn't send it in and when I came back the new turn had hosted and we had the stales. SO, I also did not send in any NEW information to llamaserver.

That's what I KNOW for certain.

ANYBODY with any other info please copy this and paste it along with your info (NOT SUPPOSITION) that you know to be true so thejeff can get a handle on it and we can move forward.

Thanks:up:

[Tollund]

If you want to see who has staled on Llamaserver, then you just need to check that option under the admin options.

[thejeff]

But not once you've rolled back. You can only see who staled in the previous turn. Since the current turn hasn't run, you can't tell who staled when it did run.
(This is like time travel, the worst problem is the tenses.)

I'd say at this point, Caelum is the only one we know needs to submit a turn. If there is someone else who staled originally, they have until Caelum plays to either get their turn in or speak up. Once Caelum is in, force host it.

[Xanatos]

aye i never staled ..yet - nifle

[Alehkhs]

Alright, I'm officially confused...


For what it might be worth, here are my details:

I sent in turn 27 for the original turn.

I received a message that that .2h had been received by the server.

I next received a message that turn 28 had begun.

Before I had gotten around to overwriting my .2h with the new one, I received the email that the turn was rolled back to 27.

I then simply sent the EXACT SAME .2h that I had sent originally.


Hope this helps...

[Yskonyn]

Hi guys, it has been stormy over here I see. :) That's what happens when daddy leaves I guess. ;) :D

Anyway we're at turn 27, and I was the only one who staled so it seems. Weird, because my turn has been sent in anyway. I forces hosting so we'll continue from here with turn 28, which many should already have on standby, right?

I hope everyone had a nice x-mas and a great newyear?? All the best wishes to everyone and their close ones! :up:

[Xanatos]

I'm confused as well - I seem to have the same turn, including all my previous moves (was given the continue option) when I had already replaced teh turn file with the new one. I suppose this means I staled, but it also told me no stale message.

[Xanatos]

I think it staled me.

[thejeff]

You didn't stale. You didn't get a stale turn message. The llamaserver doesn't show you as staling. My scouts saw your troops attacking.

What probably happened is that you'd saved some orders under the old turn, before the rollback, so you had a valid 2h file. When you opened the new turn, those orders were for the correct turn and still made sense so they were loaded.

Ermor and Caelum did stale, though I'm not quite sure how.

[Xanatos]

hmm, gnarly. So we rollin back again?

[Xanatos]

ok false alarm - apparently the folder it was saving to had changed, i was saving the turn file in my music folder.

[Immaculate]

I will not be able to play dominions after january 7th. I will need a replacement substitute. I will post in the appropriate thread to advertise for one.
Sorry.

[Agusti]

Maybe someone could tell to Mictlan player that it would be the best for the game and for the other players to put his nation under the IA command. He is about to be eliminated but if we have to wait always till the end of the next turn due it's a waste of time. It's clear that Mictlan is not going to send the turn because he hasn't provinces, troops and anything, only his god (I guess). We can improve the frequency of the turns if players about to be eliminated respect the others and put their nations under the IA before quitting the game.

[thejeff]

Mictlan is out. We'll only have to wait on him this turn. After that he'll be gone. The game sends out one last turn, so the player can see his defeat.

It would be nice if he sent the last turn in, but it's only an hour or so at this point.

[Immaculate]

i wonder if he could take over for me...?

[Dark Kitty]

Sorry, I saw that llamaserver still expected a turn from me but with no units, no castles, no provinces, I thought an "empty" orders file might create some problems.
But I saw your posts and just sent one. Sorry about that, it's my first MP ending so I didn't know you still had to send a turn after you were defeated.:doh:

To Immaculate : I wonder if it would be ok, from a diplomatic point of view, as I was already in this game before, with allies and ennemies, etc... But if no other "impartial" sub is found, sure, I will do it :)

[Agusti]

Hi. Something very strange has happened to me this turn and I would be interested in knowing if someone else has had similar problems in this turn.

One of my units has mysteriously lost all its magical items (4 items) without any explanation or event that could be related with it. The unit had orders to move one province but now is placed in the same province than the turn before but without the items and they're not in the laboratory either.

Please, all these magical items were very important to me and I want to know if it's possible that something wrong happened with Llamaserver when processing the turn.

BTW, my unit has also lost its research points and its magical paths. WTF???

PD: Yes, something has happened. The name of some of my units has changed mysterously (?????). Please, report if anyone has experimented something similar or strange things (units or armies not moving, not researching, etc.). There're also 2 host messages about a suspicious increase in the income of two nations (it's not the first time I see these messages but what happened to me IS inexplicable).

[thejeff]

Possibly one of your immortals dying, maybe of disease, and coming back feebleminded?

Edit:
Or something did go wrong. I got 2 maenads as commanders. Not sure how that happened, probably some kind of unit ID screw up? Which might explain your renames and mysterious unit.

Not sure what to do about it. We could rollback again, but there's no guarantee that'll work.

[Agusti]

Possibly one of your immortals dying, maybe of disease, and coming back feebleminded?

No, it was an unit summoned a turn before. No problems with old age, no message, no event, no explanation.

I will try to explain myself better. I summoned one unit two turns before. In the last turn the unit summoned was available. I gave them a lot of magical items and I ordered to it to move to an adjacent province. So far so god.

In the last turn I gave orders to summon another unit of the same kind. So in this turn I should have two units: yes. Of the same type/kind: yes. But the unit summoned two turns before and with the magical items has disappeared (I don't find the name of the unit and I didn't rename it, I'm sure because I never rename them).

Well, I open the current turn and check the province where my first summoned unit should be. But it's not there. Ummm, what happened?

I check my nation briefing and find the two units summoned in the previous turns. One is the summoned the last turn but the other is not the unit I had previously. Its name has changed and it hasn't magical paths, no research points and no magical items. Nothing. Who has changed the name of my unit and why it has lost all his items and RP and magical paths?

WTF???

[Agusti]

Possibly one of your immortals dying, maybe of disease, and coming back feebleminded?

Edit:
Or something did go wrong. I got 2 maenads as commanders. Not sure how that happened, probably some kind of unit ID screw up? Which might explain your renames and mysterious unit.

Not sure what to do about it. We could rollback again, but there's no guarantee that'll work.

Clearly something has broken and it would be better if we try to rollback again. We can wait what the other player has to say but i'm sure something has broken and could be worse in the next turns.

My magical items were very important, I have spent a lot of gems to forge them and I don't want to lost them without any reasonable explanation.:rolleyes:

Cheers

[GrudgeBringer]

I have no problem with Dark Kitty taking sauro's place as long as he agreesthat it is a different nation with different allies and friends and acts accordingly.

Don't want to unbalance the game bu having someone go to war with a Nap mate who has no troops on the border ect.

No Grudges (LoL, no pun intended) carried over.:D

[thejeff]

I agree that a rollback is probably worth trying.

Until we rollback or decide not to, no one else should send their turns in.

[Stagger Lee]

I will not be able to play dominions after january 7th. I will need a replacement substitute. I will post in the appropriate thread to advertise for one.
Sorry.

Sorry to lose you. Hope all's well with the family. Good game - maybe we'll play again. Good luck. :cool:

[GrudgeBringer]

oK, now we have 2 people that have sent there turns in...

We have our Admin who has to withdraw (he will pick someone to take his place as admin) and Dark kitty may take his nation if everyone feels OK with it..I have no problem with it.

We have this roll back problem that now has perhaps produced a bug and we have people sending in their new turns.

What do we want to do with all this....we need to make a decision and all get on the same page.

[Stagger Lee]

I have no objection to Dark Kitty taking over for Immaculate. Our alliance was with Mictlan and the dead god Huehueteotl, not with Helheim. :fight:

[Stagger Lee]

oK, now we have 2 people that have sent there turns in...

We have our Admin who has to withdraw (he will pick someone to take his place as admin) and Dark kitty may take his nation if everyone feels OK with it..I have no problem with it.

We have this roll back problem that now has perhaps produced a bug and we have people sending in their new turns.

What do we want to do with all this....we need to make a decision and all get on the same page.

I suppose you're talking about Immaculate, admin of casual ea, not our admin. Unless something's happened to Yskonen?

[Stagger Lee]

Hi. Something very strange has happened to me this turn and I would be interested in knowing if someone else has had similar problems in this turn.

One of my units has mysteriously lost all its magical items (4 items) without any explanation or event that could be related with it. The unit had orders to move one province but now is placed in the same province than the turn before but without the items and they're not in the laboratory either.

Please, all these magical items were very important to me and I want to know if it's possible that something wrong happened with Llamaserver when processing the turn.

BTW, my unit has also lost its research points and its magical paths. WTF???

PD: Yes, something has happened. The name of some of my units has changed mysterously (?????). Please, report if anyone has experimented something similar or strange things (units or armies not moving, not researching, etc.). There're also 2 host messages about a suspicious increase in the income of two nations (it's not the first time I see these messages but what happened to me IS inexplicable).

I lost 10 summoned units without explanation. They had already been summoned and were part of a company of 30 under 1 commander. They were part of a larger army sent out to break a siege. Only 20 of them took the field - no reason given.

I also got the message about 2 nations with unexplainable increases in wealth. Let me say now that I don't believe there was any form of cheating, I just want to know if we all got the same messages. Mine said Caelum & Pangaea. If this is a bug, one of them may have gotten your items and my troops. :smash:

I would have liked to keep the good luck event of much needed cash, but fixing the problem is paramount. I support a rollback. I also support GB's call for us to all get on the same page or it won't help. Speak up!

[Tollund]

Rollbacks require that you redo the next turn from scratch. If you don't, then weirdness happens every single time.

[Agusti]

We can use Llamaserver to send an email to all players and inform them that we're rolling back one turn. I prefer to redo the last turn because the current one is a mess.

[Stagger Lee]

Rollbacks require that you redo the next turn from scratch. If you don't, then weirdness happens every single time.

I was discussing this with Xanatos via PM. I guess I keep a closer eye on the forums than some (having begun my dominions career as a lurker here), and did nothing with the turns that we rolled back on. He gets the turn and does it, which should not be a problem. The results of our battles have not changed, but some details did, not because of a bug, just random randomness. One of his big Niefel Jarls was killed on the turn we first rolled back. In the do-over, he retreated and survived. Xanatos had done the next turn already before realising we were rolling back and had orders in his .2h file saved. If it had happened the other way around and the Jarl survived the first and died the second, there would have been orders in his .2h file for a dead unit, and may have crashed then.

I really am new to this stuff, but maybe if we can all agree to move our existing .trn and .2h files to a new folder (emptying the davidandgoliath folder completely), then wait for llamaserver to send out the turn we roll back to, and all of us go on from there, we might be OK?

Before we do that though, we need to think about whether we need to roll back 1 :sick: or 2 turns :puke:

[thejeff]

If I understand this correctly, and I might not, moving/deleting our existing .trn and .2h files should have no effect on this problem. A .2h file mismatch can cause a crash, but shouldn't cause unit id weirdness in the next turn.
OTOH, doing so can't hurt and it might help, so if we're going to rollback we might as well try it.

I'm about 95% sure we can't roll back 2 turns.

[Agusti]

What we need now is a delay in the next turn due or Llamaserver will play the next turn.

We can send an email to the Llama Admin an ask advice.

[GrudgeBringer]

I am the emergency Admin for D+G...I am going to set it back 24 hours until someone takes control and has a definitive plan.

[Stagger Lee]

Can we turn off the timer until we get that plan?

[Agusti]

I am the emergency Admin for D+G...I am going to set it back 24 hours until someone takes control and has a definitive plan.

Rolling back the turn is not enough? It seems easy and Llama has an option to do that. Or the problem is that is not so easy and there are other complications? It's the first time I see this problem so sorry if my questions bother you.

[GrudgeBringer]

Guys,

Here is the problem, if we turn the timer 'off' or we keep vacillating on this, we are going to start losing players OR they will not see when we are starting and THEY will stale the next time and we will NEVER get this going.

thejeff is probably the most knowledgeable on this and I for one trust his judgement on what we should do.

IF we want to redo the turn agian then so be it, but we have to address the 2 nations that have already turned the NEW redone turn in. So they will have to delete the 2h files or whatever it is we do and go from there.

Its my expieriance that the longer we wait on this the more people will lose interest and drift away.

So, whatever it is you want to do, lets do it by tomorrow evening...Please.

[Agusti]

Guys,

Here is the problem, if we turn the timer 'off' or we keep vacillating on this, we are going to start losing players OR they will not see when we are starting and THEY will stale the next time and we will NEVER get this going.

thejeff is probably the most knowledgeable on this and I for one trust his judgement on what we should do.

IF we want to redo the turn agian then so be it, but we have to address the 2 nations that have already turned the NEW redone turn in. So they will have to delete the 2h files or whatever it is we do and go from there.

Its my expieriance that the longer we wait on this the more people will lose interest and drift away.

So, whatever it is you want to do, lets do it by tomorrow evening...Please.

+ 1

[pyg]

Just tuning in here as my dismal position in this game has lessened my interest.... although I have my capital again albeit the former occupant removed some of the important buildings :mad: I don't have much knowledge about rollbacks but something seems seriously broken about the *feature*. Anyway, I'm fine how ever it gets resolved and will continue to make life harder for my enemies and easier for my friends.

[Xanatos]

--excerpted from Thus Spake Puppet: Divine Servant of Vano

:doh:

[thejeff]

Well, if I'm being touted as the expert here, I'd say do the rollback.
There's two things we could try. And it may be worth doing both if problems persist.

First, simply rollback and try to rehost. We know only Ermor and Fomoria have submitted turns and no one staled, so have them and only them submit new turns. Then host and hope all the problems go away. That has the virtue of being simple.

If they don't, we can roll back again and have every one submit new turns. In this case, everyone should delete any .2h file they have and redo the turn from scratch. If there is something weird from the previous rollback causing these problems this may get rid of it.

It may be easier to go straight to that, to avoid having to do extra rollbacks. No guarantees either will work, though.

Whichever, use llamaserver to send an email to everyone telling them what you expect them to do.

[GrudgeBringer]

OK Folks!!!

Lets all check in and get on the same page and lets do this.

If you don't understand what he is saying, just ask and we will get you fixed up.

C'mon and lets get this thing GOING!!!!:up:

[Immaculate]

I have yet to find a player to take my spot. Any suggestions?

[Yskonyn]

Aren't we going already? The rollback has already happened as far as I know? Don't make this any more confusing as it already is! ;)

I just wanted to point out that the game thinks Pangaea and Caelum may be cheating because of some unexpected increase in wealth. I am not sure what did this, but as me being Caelum I can ASSURE you all that I am NOT cheating. It must have got something to do with the rollback or something.

If some feel this game has derailed beyond repair we'll forfeit.

[Agusti]

I just wanted to point out that the game thinks Pangaea and Caelum may be cheating because of some unexpected increase in wealth. I am not sure what did this, but as me being Caelum I can ASSURE you all that I am NOT cheating. It must have got something to do with the rollback or something.

I've seen these messages a lot of times and don't mean you're cheating, maybe you've had a couple of very good events, for example :)

I don't know if this issue with the IDs is affecting your game or not, but for me has been a very bad one "event" because I've lost a very important unit and all its magical items (20-30 gems).

A mess.

[Immaculate]

Hi- i thought i would advertise here. I got a good position with sauromatia in CASUAL EA FOR BUSY SCHEDULES which is mostly a newbie game too. first in research, second in gems and territory... carving up the enemy (helheim) with big stacks and got some nice SCs coming up too...

Please check out that thread... its a SUPER fun game and the position is getting really interesting.... it would be a shame to AI.

[Stagger Lee]

Yesterday, I posted a request for advice on rollbacks in the multiplayer thread. What comes through most clearly is that it should be avoided at all costs. I'm not sure we have that luxury any more. One veteran player kindly gave us four options, though. Unfortunately three of those options were don't do it! :re:

The fourth option included deleting all .2h files.

We are either going to put our heads down and bull forward hoping no future unit or item strangeness occurs, or we are rolling back. If we roll back, I think we should all delete (or move to a backup folder) all files in the davidandgoliath folder. As for Agusti's unit and items - is there any way you could unequip and get the items to your lab this turn? I know that is like changing orders, but if the unit is doomed for no good reason, maybe the items can still be saved.

Really just thinking out loud. Please, we need to hear from more players on this.

[Xanatos]

how do we get the new .trn file?

[Immaculate]

Ossa is going to take over for me as Helheim in this game.
Yskonyn: are you still admin? Can you set Helheim to accept turns from an e-mail i will send you via PM (its ossa's). its one of the admin option under the game settings.

[thejeff]

Xanatos: There is no new .trn file. We're still on hold. I'm not sure why.
We'll need to roll back or postpone again soon.

Grudge? Yskonyn? What's the plan?

Farewell Immaculate!
And welcome aboard, Ossa. You come at a most confusing time.

[Stagger Lee]

Hello Ossa.

This game's been a lot of fun so far. We'll be going again soon.

Right?

right?...

[GrudgeBringer]

I want the game to continue as it seems to have the most even fighting I have seen in many games...

I am somewhat computer challenged so whatever you guys want to do, just tell me how to do it and lets get it done, even if we screw it up its better than NO movement )in my opinion).

Sooooooooo, thejeff, your in charge as far as I am concerned.

Tell us what to do and we will do it and if it works fine..if it doesn't we will figure it out from there.:up:

[Agusti]

As for Agusti's unit and items - is there any way you could unequip and get the items to your lab this turn? I know that is like changing orders, but if the unit is doomed for no good reason, maybe the items can still be saved.

Really just thinking out loud. Please, we need to hear from more players on this.

I can assure you that all the magical items will be put in the laboratory and I'll wait some turns before summoning my units. I don't want to spend gems and not get what I was expecting.

Thank you for the tip :)

[thejeff]

Alright then. No promises it'll work.

Roll us back.

Then send an email to everyone (There's an option on the admin page.) telling them:
1) Delete the .2h file before opening the turn.
2) Redo the turn from scratch
3) Send it in
4) Pray that it works.

[Stagger Lee]

Are we trying to recreate the previous turn? Should I overwrite the turn llamaserver has stored, or let it re-host with the old turn?

I feel like we should redo the turn to make this work, but I don't think I remember exactly what I did. It'll have to be an approximation.

And I really think all of us need to delete those .2h files.

[Stagger Lee]

less than 4 hours to hosting

I'm going to bed.

I'll be disappointed if I find I staled overnight.

[Ossa]

Hello guys;)

[Yskonyn]

Hi Ossa, welcome! I have put you in command of Helheim so any and all turn will be dropped in your email box from now on.

One thing that I am just plain confused about at this point is the state of our game.
We already rolled back once before X-Mas. Then during X-Mas there were some problems and some countries staled. We rolled back a second time. What's the deal with talking about ANOTHER rollback at this point? Aren't we all where we are supposed to be?
Doesn't everyone have sent their 29th turn in to the server yet?

Please enlighten me, because I really do not understand what the problem is now.

[Agusti]

Please enlighten me, because I really do not understand what the problem is now.

The problem is that the game is now a mess, units with the wrong ID, magical items disappearing, units losing his magical paths, more units disappearing without any explanation, etc.

Someone sent a wrong turn with a wrong file or the previous rollbacks "broke" something.

[Yskonyn]

Oh then let's all delete our current turn files on your PC's. We will rollback as thejeff suggested and start fresh with those files send by Llama, although I am not too sure this will cure the problems, as we already did a rollback before which might have caused the game to go tits up.

So EVERYONE delete your current files and wait for the new Llamaserver round of turns it will send and use that turn to process a new turn.
If this doesn't work then the game is broken beyond repair and we will have to forfeit unfortunately as I understand it.

My sincere appologies for the troubles. It looked like a great game and it would be a pitty to have to forfeit.
Expect a new turn in a few mins.

Please note that I do understand that if you're in a battle a rollback might cause a different output or other uncomfortable things while at war, but please understand this is a decisive action to try to repair the game so we can continue normally with the following turns.

[Immaculate]

Ossa- now that the game thinks you are the helheim player, you can request a turn resend yourself (its under admin options). Yskonyn- you CAN resend a turn to a single player without it going out to all players.

[Yskonyn]

It doesn't matter as we are rolling back. So Ossa, you don't have to do anything. You will get a turn sent by the server automatically.

[Immaculate]

Thank you very much Yskonyn for hosting such a fun game. i wish i could have stayed to play this out. i had some interesting ideas that i haven't seen on these forums. i told ossa about them- maybe he will have a chance to implement them...

anyway, i hope the problems all get ironed out and you all have a great time.

Thanks also to ossa for stepping up.

[Xanatos]

I understand deleting the .2h file and replacing it with the new llama file, what about the .trn file?

[thejeff]

The new llama file is the .trn file. You need to delete the .2h and replace the existing .trn with the .trn from the llamaserver.

[Louppatient]

Old files deleted, turn redone from the trn sent by the llamaserver and sent :)

[Xanatos]

ok that was a dumb question nm, lol

[Xanatos]

ok my turns good.

[GrudgeBringer]

I'm in

[Stagger Lee]

It seems we're only waiting on Caelum. Yskonen - everything OK?

[Yskonyn]

Yes sorry, the turn has come through, but I seem to be missing one whole army.
Maybe it got wiped out by a battle before but I don't recall one.
Anyway let's continue and hope we wont see any more anomalies. :)

Imma, glad you liked it. Sad to see you go, though. :)

[Agusti]

Now the turn seems ok, nothing weird.

I hope all we can play without any more problems.

[pyg]

Well for me, instead of retaking my capital Niefleheim is sieging Ulm (his ally).

--Thus Spake....

TNG, Arco, Pan, and if possible my ally C'tis have an obligation!

[Stagger Lee]

Nothing wrong with troop count, just with me. I still have all 30 of 'em, but I guess this time I forgot to tell them to break the damn siege! :doh:

Coming out this turn, I hope. (Why try to mask it at this point?)

And boy, could I have put that good luck 600 gold to use! Oh well, moving for'rd then. :cool:

[Alehkhs]

Well for me, instead of retaking my capital Niefleheim is sieging Ulm (his ally).



Naw, he's just passing through... stopped by for a dash of tea.

[Yskonyn]

Bad news, people. I had hoped my tour of duty abroad was over, but I have been called to Denmark once again for 5 days today. I already fly out tomorrow morning and will be back on the 14th.
I have no access to Dominions in the mean time unfortunately.
It hampers our game, just as we were getting ahead full steam again, I am sorry.
I would like to postpone the game until then as I have no time to find a sub.

If people want to bail out because of this and our previous problems, please discuss this with Grudge.
Grudge would you take care of things once again, please?
I have already set the game on hold in Llama.

Sorry guys, but I did not expect this either.

[thejeff]

Would you object to us looking for a sub?

I don't know if you're at war or have other plans you don't want a uninformed sub to mess up.

We may have trouble finding one anyway.

[GrudgeBringer]

Guys....We have fought off a lot of adversity in this game with roll backs, extensions and the like.

NO ONE has quit, we have about 4 wars going on and they are taking different paths every turn.

This has been One of the best games I have ever played in and I salute ALL of you...The new, not so new, and the wily 'ol' vets.

It would be a shame to quit now. A temp sub would be great until you got back, but that seems out of the question. The way I see it we have 2 options (and I have NOT looked at the scores so I may be completely off base).

You can go AI or we can wait until he gets back...for myself, we are having severe winter storms and my Internet connection is going on and off. But I can get thru that.

Its 5 days do we want to wait and if he can't get it together them we go to one of the other options...OR do we decide now.

Lets have some input (and I don't want to hear we need to bag this game)...

Thanks guys:up:

And yes I will fill in as admin till you get back.

[Stagger Lee]

We're on turn 29. Turn 28 first came out on 12/29. 10 days/turn seems like the pace we've been on. :smirk:

I'm not happy about a delay, but I'll be here when he gets back.

[thejeff]

Stagger Lee: Yeah but we've had all these turns multiple times, so that should bring the average down. :)

Waiting is proabbly the best thing, though I hate to say it.
These things happen. It's only a week.

I do encourage everyone to get their turns in early anyway. That way you don't have to remember to get back to it, you get the pleasant surprise of a turn in your mailbox.

[GrudgeBringer]

LOL, Yeah I forgot it took only ten days to solve our rollback problem!!

Heck, its the weekend (and the playoffs, in the US anyway) and I have snow storm every other dang day. Its only 5 days and I agree with thejeff.

PLEASE get your turn in and in a couple of days I (as I have the code) will give you a brand new turn to play with until he gets back and catches up.

We owe him a little time as he IS the one who put it together, don't you all think?:up:

[Yskonyn]

I see it has been nice and quiet here while I was away! ;)
Thanks for the support guys! I am back for action again so I will fire up Llama so it'll start pumping out the turns again. I hope everyone will chime in again! *thumbs up*!

Cold here, by the way. There hasn't been so much snow since '83 here!

EDIT: Tig na N'og needs to send in their turn and the game will quickhost so we can continue.

[Stagger Lee]

Loupp - you still with us? :poke:

[Stagger Lee]

So I'm thinking we're gonna need a sub for Tir na n'Og :cry:

[GrudgeBringer]

If he stales this turn I will submit a request on the forum. He has been on and off in a number of games. I don't know if he is having computer problems or not.

[GrudgeBringer]

I just checked staling record and he only has 2 and has made the last 4 turns, so I may not jump too quick but WILL keep an eye on the situation.

Thanks for pointing it out.

[Yskonyn]

Loupie needs to check in here... :) Waiting patiently.

[GrudgeBringer]

Just putting back on first page

[Yskonyn]

Alright guys! Interesting turn this was.
First I am at peace, next thing I am at full war! O_O

I finally got around to updating the first page too! Everyone has the correct name with the correct nation now, at least I think so. ;) If you're missing from the list, drop a note please.

Is everyone going along nicely now and are all the rollback problems solved?

[thejeff]

We haven't seen Tir since the rollback, have we? He's staled the last 3 turns.
We should probably try to get a replacement.

[Yskonyn]

We do. He's my only chance of backup as well as things are right now in the game. :S
I need him to answer my call for help!

[Stagger Lee]

Tir looks to be in pretty good shape. Is there someone (Yskonen) on his side of the map who can write a decent description for a sub request post in the appropriate sub finder thread? If we go back to 1 turn/10 days I will completely lose track of what was going on. :smirk:

[GrudgeBringer]

I was just checking the syale data myself...We need to find a replacement SOON or set it AI. Nooooooo easy pickens:envy:

[Yskonyn]

Ok a sub it is then, preferably. How can I write anything about T'ir? I can only vaguely see what provinces he still has, nothing more? Or am I wrong?

[GrudgeBringer]

I know nothing about them in this game

[Agusti]

Hi all. Since I'm at war with Caelum, might be best to extend the deadline to find a replacement for Tir and specially if Tir is the nation to which Caelum is asking for help. And if it's not possible, then I can remake my turn and don't move my armies in order Caelum can have enough time to find a sub. But I would need more time to remake my orders, 12 hours because i'm at work. I can send the turn at 18:00 GMT (19 in Spain). Ok?

[thejeff]

Since I don't think anyone has posted about a sub for Tir, I'll do so.
We should delay until we get one. (Or give up and set him AI)

[Agusti]

Ok.

[Stagger Lee]

Since I don't think anyone has posted about a sub for Tir, I'll do so.
We should delay until we get one. (Or give up and set him AI)

Thank you :cool:

[Yskonyn]

Thanks jeff. I was just about to figure out how we should file for a sub, but you've taken care of it. Excellent. I'll put the game on hold.

[Stagger Lee]

Yskonen - I'm pretty sure you can edit the OP so that David&Goliath can be seen by people browsing the main multiplayer forum. I am going to post there for a sub for Tir along with the one thejeff put in the sub thread. I will ask anyone interested to PM you or Grudge if that's OK.

Although if anybody could use a pile of uncontested provinces, it would be you guys on the other side of the board, eh? ;)

[Yskonyn]

Done. :)

[Stagger Lee]

Sorry, I meant so that the name of our game - "David&Goliath" can be seen. Something to let a potential sub find the thread knowing only the game name. Something like

Running: David&Goliath - First Newbie game...

Not complaining, you know. Just trying to make us easier to see now and going forward. :)

Anyway, did you get a PM from donPablo?

[Yskonyn]

Right! Good tips Stagger Lee! :)
donPablo has been allowed to take a peek on Tir. He will report back to me to confirm he want to sub or not.

[GrudgeBringer]

I just resent the turn to him as he e-mailed me last night but said he hasn't got it yet.

I hope both of us messing with it didn't screw it up for him.

I changed his E-mail either last night or EARLY this morning (before I went to the gym)

[GrudgeBringer]

I also suggest that if he doesn't want it we ask him to set it AI....just an opinion.

[don_Pablo]

Well, I've got the turn at last. I'll complete my orders in a couple of hours.

If you have a treaty or NAP with Tir - PM me.

[GrudgeBringer]

WELCOME DON_PABLO....

I have not met Tir yet but I will give you a 3 turn Nap sight unseen for tjumping into the fire blind.

Grudge (Arco)

[don_Pablo]

2Ermor: should I understand your attack as a declaration of war?

[Stagger Lee]

To be fair to Klepto (Ermor), we all had our turns in a while ago. Maybe he didn't know there was a new lord of Tir when he sent his invading armies.

Maybe.

And this game really is all about teaching us how to live in peace and harmony right? ;)

BTW: Thanks for jumping in, it's been fun so far. For lots of us, this is our first MP game. :)

[Yskonyn]

Great you jumped in Don, welcome!

Caelum is an ally of Tir and you should have received an in-game message from us, if not please say so and I will send it again.

[GrudgeBringer]

Lets take the looking for sub label off the heading....:up:

[Yskonyn]

The end is drawing near for the mighty realm of Caelum...
This is a desperate cry for help to all surrounding nations to aid us in the defense against the looters of Tir na N'og!

[don_Pablo]

Tir na n’Og?
Not TienChi?
How very interesting..

Yes, I’m sorry, I was going to answer you but always put it off till next time.
So...

1) I’ve no borders with TC. It’s difficult to help you with main army.
2) If using thugs I need some turns to prepare.
3) You gave none of the information of his bless, magic and favourite tactics. I don’t know how can you be at war and know nothing of that.
4) And finally, you seem to be doomed. You have very low research (but it should be your main weapon) And you have very low dominion strength. I expect you to lose all the candles in some months.

[Yskonyn]

I have to correct that.. :)
Indeed Tien Chi. With you swapping in on Tir na N'og I guess that name stuck in my head. :)

I don't have any info on their tactics, because they steamrolled over my forces.
It's a sort of blitzkrieg.
But it's very soothing that you say I will be gone in the next few turns. :(

:D

[Stagger Lee]

I will be gone before you Y, if it's any consolation. 11 Niefel Jarls standing on my cap. :cold: Killed a couple of them before the rollbacks, but with so many it was only a matter of time.

3 things I learned:

1) Scouting is very important, and C'tis has the worst scouting in history.

2) If there is a nightmare start for C'tis it would be within 3 steps of Niefelheim. I'd have been gone long ago if he wasn't busy with others too.

3) Rollbacks really can screw up your perception of game flow. Concentration suffers, when you remember having done something, but you never really did it. Whether it's forging an item, or adjusting research priorities, or any of so many things that we do each turn.

Anyway, I'm in it til the end, but my turns will be short now. Congrats Xanatos, you killed me before my plan for global domination could be implemented - GG all! :)

[pyg]

I'm also nearly eliminated (second game today!). It was fun and I enjoyed our alliance with Stagger Lee and Dark Kitty. Although treacherous Alehkhs was a fun opponent. I also greatly enjoyed setting a new level of unrest (~400) in my former capital as well as killing off 8000 of the population. Hopefully Alehkhs/Xanatos will appreciate it. I learned a lot about MP politics in this game, esp. how not to do it. Additionally my opponents used [future] knowledge during rollbacks to my great disadvantage, resulting in the [permanent] loss of my capital. I hope other players in this game will take away the importance of not (pretty much ever) doing rollbacks.

Cheers!

[rdonj]

Additionally my opponents used [future] knowledge during rollbacks to my great disadvantage, resulting in the [permanent] loss of my capital. I hope other players in this game will take away the importance of not (pretty much ever) doing rollbacks.

Cheers!

Boo! Hiss! Rollbacks=the devil.

[GrudgeBringer]

You fought to the end in both and from what I understand made evryone pay for each province they took.

Thanks for everything and for playing.

Yeah, rollbacks can be a REAL drag (I am in that same game also).

How did you get it to 400? Man, that will take forever to use for anything..lol, good job!!

See you in the next one:up:

[pyg]

How did you get it to 400? Man, that will take forever to use for anything..lol, good job!!


Bloodhunting and taxes 200. I didn't bother to siege as I only had commanders left. Significant population loss as well.

[thejeff]

I hate to do this, but I'm going to start looking for a replacement. I took this position as a temporary and got stuck with it.

Now my life and work are getting busy again. It's manageable at the moment, mostly since I'm not at war, but where's the fun in that.
I'll keep going until I find someone, but I may need an occasional delay.

[don_Pablo]

I think Veto could replace you.
He is my friend and he likes Pangaea very much.
I ask him if you don't mind.

[thejeff]

Sure, ask him. That would be great.

[veto]

Sure I'd like to lead Panga:)
My e-mail
ivanovmaxim@inbox(dot)ru

[Belac]

Veto, you're back! You're the last one we're waiting for in the OneFort game. Get your pretender in!

[GrudgeBringer]

OK VETO...I will set you as Pangea if you PM me and tell me thats what you want. (include you e-mail adress agian in the PM).

[GrudgeBringer]

Veto is now Pangea...I have asked him to Pm thejeff for his diplomacy obligations.

My thanks to thejeff who started out as a temp sub, and stayed with it after the other player could not continue.

You have left Veto with a strong Nation, Thank you and will see you in another game:up:

[veto]

Execuse me... work troubles.
Waiting for PM with information I should know.
May I ask for a little delay to have a chance not to make a lot of mistakes 1 turn?
And I wish all a good luck!

[GrudgeBringer]

I extended the game 6 hours....if that isn't enough you need to let me know.

[GrudgeBringer]

first page

[Xanatos]

Guys sorry to have to ask but I need an emergency hold please, my PC crashed and I may've already stalled once, its in the shop and should be out by tomorrow, I hope.

[GrudgeBringer]

24 hour postponment for Xanatos

[Xanatos]

I will have the pc back by tomorrow evening and will try to get my turn submitted, hope I havent/do not stall, sorry about the trouble!:doh:

[GrudgeBringer]

first page

[pyg]

Report from the bottom of the graph: Well, I haven't had my capital for over half the game, but for some reason no one seems interested in a sub 20k pop. fort with ~450 unrest (peaks at 500 btw). Even the occupant of said province is so disinterested that he has failed to send a .2h in for ~15 turns. Between this and Pythium/Overlords I think I've been charting new territory in marginal positions that just go on and on and on and....

please kill me!

[thejeff]

Good lord, put him out of his misery.

And shouldn't you just set Ulm AI, if he's staled 15 times?

[Yskonyn]

Well it took me a while but here's my goodbye post. Caelum lays in ruin, our pretender vanquished, never to return... at least in this story.

I had a great time playing with you guys!
I would like to push the admin to Grudge, so I can focus on another game perhaps.

Hope to play with you guys again~!

[veto]

May I ask for a 24 hours delay too? very hard time on the work doubles the problem:
Pangea is engaged with a very hard conflict with helheim.
But this turn I,m to revise all because of NAPignoring attack of niefelheim.
So I need some time to have chances.(

[GrudgeBringer]

24 hour extension as requested by Veto.

I guess I am sole admin now...I will look into getting someone to kill Pyg (you have my respect for staying in there Pyg) or you could set yourself to AI with all honor.I will check the staling data and see who has been staling and figure out something to do about it.

I have never seen either of those nations so I had no idea. any input would be helpful.

[Klepto]

Apologies everyone for my silence in this thread, my new girlfriend has been soaking up a lot of my time :)

Also apologies for missing the last few turns but MY COMPUTER CAUGHT FIRE! So I can't currently play. Just set me computer controlled, I was pretty much destroyed anyway. Thanks for the game everyone, well played to Tir na n'Og who crushed me so convincingly :)

[GrudgeBringer]

I have posted for someone to set Ulm and Ermor to AI asap.

I have also PM'd pyg and told him to retire with all honors as he has fought to the bitter end to set hinself to AI.

If anyone knows someone to help us in this please PM me.

[GrudgeBringer]

Ermor has been set to AI and SENSORI has agreed to play ULM to the bitter end. I have asked pyg to set himself to AI as he also fought to the bitter end.

If youhave diplomatic relations with Ulm, PLEASE give him the courtesy of PMing him and letting him know your status.

I have set a 24 hour extension for the request of another player (see earlier post), and have told Sensori I would give him an additional 12 hours if needed.

WELCOME SENSORI!!:up:

[Sensori]

As GrudgeBringer said, I've taken over Ulm. I'm looking at the current turn, and I gotta say I'm a bit, um, pessimistic about my chances. Let's just say that even though I might not qualify as a newbie, I don't think that'll make a difference considering the state of affairs (perfectly visible on the graphs) with this nation. :p

And I won't be needing any extra time!

[13lackGu4rd]

"Ermor set to AI"? :o
you gave it to me, but honestly I don't see what I can do to have any survival chances... all I got is 3 forts and they're all sieged right now with no way visible to break out, if I had troops now that would be something... ;)

so basically there's not much for me to do besides wait for those last 3 fortresses to fall...

oh well, tried to help, but the situation was more desperate than I imagined when you were looking for a sub instead of simply AI, absolutely nothing I can actually do here, even though I want to, as there are no recruiting options(all forts are sieged), no expansion(obviously), not even troops/commanders to break out... so I'll just end turns until I'm finished off, to the conqueror goes the spoils, congratulations ;)

[Sensori]

The thread said "need 2 nations set to AI PLEASE", not that they were looking for subs! :p Now, even though I may be willing to play this not-so-well-off Ulm, even I would've just set Ermor to AI.

Oh yes, can I expect not to get hammered to death in the first few turns I'm in (seeing that Ulm's not at war with anyone but an even deader nation)? It's not like I'm a threat in this lil corner of mine, and I'm quite peaceful anyway!

[GrudgeBringer]

If youwant to set it to AI, I have no problem with it..just tell me.

I don't want you wasting your time if the nation is really bad.

And you will have out thanks either way.

[GrudgeBringer]

Pangea
I had sent you a cancelation of our Nap agreement last turn but got no response and then you staledd.
So to be fair I will post it here, effective last turn (51). Hostilities (if any, I am not declaring war)could begin on turn 54.

[GrudgeBringer]

Seeing how we have some players newer to MP in this game, I thought I would bring out a general rule.

IF you put any stealth troops that CAUSE harm (Harvestor of Sorrows etc)into someones province, it can be construed to be an act of war. I have seen where someone found a malignant being sent by his ally into his nation and changed sides and attacked his ally without notice.

So take it seriously when you do that.:(

[GrudgeBringer]

We will be having an extension till Monday Midday starting thursday evening LATE.

However if we get our turns in by Thursday evening we will have a much less extension time.

Also, I have been asked to take time up 24 hours. We have done a GREAT job so far but we have 4 to 6 nations at war and I cna see the dilima. I think 12 hours would be enough rather than 24.

What say you nations of D&G?

PLEASE try and get turns in by Thursday nite so we have a turn to mull over this weekend

[veto]

Thanks GrudgeBringer. I wish you good luck in war with us.

DonPablo asking for a delay till saturday because of marriage)

[GrudgeBringer]

Since I also am leaving town over the weekend, we have extended the turn until Monday late evening.

If Don Pablo and others get the turn in quickly, we can host and have another turn that will host Monday, but will at least have a turn to mull over. I am leaving at 5:30 AM CST USA time and I will check and see if all turns are in..if so I will force host with the extension in place.

[veto]

I suppose it will be rollback?

[GrudgeBringer]

No rollback. I was just stating that we could get another turn in before I left town and everyone would have a turn to to instead of waiting.

[GrudgeBringer]

first page

[GrudgeBringer]

Please don't anyone D/L the new patch to we see if we want to finish this game first.

Opinions please

[Sensori]

Uh, won't we have to patch since Llamaserver's patched, and the game's on Llamaserver? Doesn't leave much space for not patching, does it. :confused:

[GrudgeBringer]

You may be right, but no one is sure of anything right now.

Please don't D/L the patch until its posted on the forums what the actual procedure and alternatives are, then we will all do it at one time.

[GrudgeBringer]

From all I have read, questions asked, and info from friends and foes alike....

I am going to go ahead and load the new patch and recommend we all do the same. From what I understand, you can go ahead and submit your waiting turn NOW either with or without the patch.

But next turn you will need to have it patched.

Everyone one here has played before and I am just relaying what I understand. Any other comments are welcome.

[GrudgeBringer]

first page

[Agusti]

We need someone to put Pangaea under IA command. This is a waste of time, he is doing stales every turn and the other players are waiting hours to play the next turn. I propose to find a volunteer to put Pangaea under IA.

[Xanatos]

I agree, Pangaea has been hit from 4 sides, its over for him and it seems he has given up.

[don_Pablo]

I'm sorry but I have 2 requests.

1) Tir na n'Og needs any help against TienChi, the strongest nation on the map. (Don't forget that Forge of the Ancients actually doubles his gem income.)

2) I ask to change hosting interval up to 72 hours. It takes much more time to complete orders now

[GrudgeBringer]

I have had a couple of PM's wanting to up the time but not to 72 hours.

However, we will add 12 more hours and take it to 60 hours and see how it goes. I will change it effective this turn.

[GrudgeBringer]

I agree that Pangea is dead...let me check the scores because he may be out of it before anyone can put him yo AI...I will force host if it is only him that is left.

[GrudgeBringer]

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[Yskonyn]

Just peeking in here again... How is it going, guys? Or has the game ended?
I am planning on doing another noobs vs experienced players game again. Anyone wants to come along for the ride again?

[Xanatos]

are you going to wait on this one to finish? I think theres 4-5 players left now.

[Yskonyn]

No not at all. But I just popped in here to see how things stand currently.

[chrispedersen]

Grudge's cable has been knocked out, and he has asked me to delay the game, pending its fix.

24 hours is therefor added to the timer.

Best wishes to all..

[GrudgeBringer]

It took them 12 hours to fix the Road runner but I am back on...will complete my turn and force host if need be.

[GrudgeBringer]

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[Xanatos]

Where you from grudge? I use roadrunner as well, I also have a second business class line with them, but I've heard there are much better options for faster connections out there.

[Yskonyn]

Good to hear everything is under control again. :)

[don_Pablo]

As far as I remember casting Arcane Nexus, Utterdark or Astral Corruption usually means cancelling all Nap's (in dom3 dip.practice)

[GrudgeBringer]

Not always....sometimes a group will have one person cast say Arcane Nexus to keep someone else from getting it (same as Well of Misery etc)

[Sensori]

Arcane Nexus is just the ultimate gem generating global, it's not a direct attack on anyone, unlike Utterdark or Astral Corruption. Rather, it's the same sort of claim on victory as Forge of the Ancients.

As such it's not considered the same as cancelling all NAPs, but rather a reason for the caster's neighbors to cancel NAPs and dogpile the said caster. :p And of course, often it's done as a team effort, so who ever decides to attack the AN caster has to prepare for other nations to show up to defend the caster.

[GrudgeBringer]

Sensori Is correct...

If the person with AN is a threat and you think he is using it for himself only, then by all means attack him...

However, usually he is the top dog in the game and is casting it to fuel summons for his large empire.

If he isn't that large, you might want to ask yourself "Why would he take that chance". The answer is as Sensori said.

It is usually a joint effort and you will end up going to war with 3 or 4 nations so that AN doesn't fall in the wrong hands.

Think it thru and then declare your intentions.

[Sensori]

Two Armageddons? Now that's gonna leave a mark. :(

[GrudgeBringer]

ohhhh, ohhhh, I havn't looked at my turn yet....2 armageddens?

Who would kill off 40% of their own POP?

[Xanatos]

going to need a delay of up to 72 hours please, computer is messed up, it kept locking up and i'd shut it down and reboot and it would make a noise when it hit desktop, and now its getting worse, i need to take it to the tech guy and hes got a 2 day wait time right now.

[GrudgeBringer]

First...We have a 72 hour extension for Xanatos...

Second...Who the H*** is casting Armmegedon!!!

I have been on here 2 years and have never seen that cast.:(

[Xanatos]

I've never heard of that spell, or seen it, can everyone cast it?

Whomever is doing it, wants to do it multiple times, I think they are either going to try and starve the world out (because they have all undead or something) or something to that extent, I have no doubts we will see 2 more next turn.

Thanks for the delay, I am on a different machine now that has no dominions on it, or disk drive to install it. Hoping to have the other machine back in 2 days.

[rdonj]

Everyone can cast it, yes. Armageddons are cast via the Wish spell. So that is 200 pearls spent in one turn. This game seems to be running without cbm, so the likely candidate for a wish caster is someone who has a lot of gem income and a lot of clams, who either has fairly high hp units or has the gems to forge armor for every single mage they have. Being a nation that does not "need" gold also helps make it easier, but again, having a strong gem economy allows you to mostly ignore the income loss, especially if you have all research done.

Grudge - it's not exactly 40% of the population. It's 20% of 80% of the population... which is... more like 34%? My math is probably wrong. Anyway, each successive armageddon does less economic damage than the last.

[Sensori]

My guess is it's the nation that I heard is getting dogpiled by a bunch of others, who most likely doesn't have the HP on his mages/commanders for them to live through Armageddons. So they'd have to be armored through items, or then that nation lost a bunch of mages. There's only one giant nation left in the game, and I don't see the player of that nation having any inclination to do so. What with not having full research (thus not probably even having the ability) and likely being somewhat reliant on blood, which is the only magic path severely hurt by Armageddons.

Luckily for me though, Ulm's mages come with some armor out of the box, so my losses there were quite conservative. I think I lost more silly ape archers than anything else. :p Only really bad thing is that if this keeps up, I'll be running out of gold, and soon after I'll be running out of regular troops (like everyone else).

[Xanatos]

ok, i have installed dom3 on another pc now, it has windows 7.

first, I cannot seem to make the savedgames folder appear in the dominions directory, even after making a game and saving it, no savedgames folders appear (though they DO show up in the game itself to play)

any suggestions on this?

also which patches does this game run again?

[Gregstrom]

Latest Dom3 patch is on the game's page on the Shrapnel website. You only need that one.

Savegame folders appear somewhere wierd in Win7 when you install to Program Files. Search for .trn files and something might turn up, perhaps.

[Xanatos]

im not sure HOW to search on windows 7, i cant find a search feature.

[Xanatos]

wow 7 is a real POS...i found search, but i cant find any saved games folder.

the only .trn files are in tutdata, which i think are the game si made to see if i could create a saved folder when i first installed it on this machine...no saved game folder and i dont know how to open up the .trn file to play the turn.

[Xanatos]

i have cbm/worthy heroes dl'd as well now, we need worthy heroes on this game - but i dont know how to get the files to the right folder on win7

[Sensori]

Why does it pretty much always end up so that the guy who the extension was given for ends up not being the last guy uploading his turn. :confused: I really don't get it. Just because the host extended the time you can make your turn in, it doesn't mean that people who didn't need the extension have to upload at the last minute. :(

The only reason I can come up with is that people are prone to procrastination.

[GrudgeBringer]

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[GrudgeBringer]

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[GrudgeBringer]

I will be leaving Friday afternoon to play Rugby in Indy.

Depending on the turn and when it would host, I will be extending it until Monday morning when I leave. I will be back Sunday eevening and depending on weather and what time I arrive, I may be able to get it in Sunday night.

[GrudgeBringer]

I had an emergemcy and had to take a 24 hour extension...I may be able to get it in earlier.

[GrudgeBringer]

I am leaving for Tulsa to play ball Friday 5/14/10 around 1 PM and be back Monday. If we can all get the turn in by FRIDAY before I leave we will not have much of an extension.

Thanks

[GrudgeBringer]

I have to leave today instead of tomorrow, sorry it can't be helped.
This turn is extended until Monday. Have a great weekend guys!!

[GrudgeBringer]

It is Friday afternoon and I am back...Drove all the way to Tulsa and got rained out at 6 AM so we drove back today.

Will get turn in ASAP this evening...

[GrudgeBringer]

Gents,

I am leaving Friday AM to play ball in Reno for the Memorial day weekend (for those ourside the USA it is a big travel weekend). Since the turn just came in there won't be much of a delay, but I will be extending it until Tuesday.

I more than likely will have it almost done by tonight and will finish it up Monday.

Everyone have a safe and peaceful Memorial day and remember those that arn't with us anymore.

[GrudgeBringer]

Gentlemen,

Being in 3 end game matches, the middle of Rugby and Softball seasons (traveling every other week), work and family is taking its toll on my quality of turns and the amount of time I have to spend on them.. I would like to add 24 hours to the turns. I can try 12 but 24 would be better.

Your opinions please:up:

[Agusti]

I agree. I need more hours to make the turns. And I need 12 hours more to the next turn, please, at least. I have a wedding today and cannot send the turn before the next hosting.

[GrudgeBringer]

OK, I am going to add 24 to hosting time and extend it 24 hours as requested.:up:

[GrudgeBringer]

Who is playing Tir? It has been a long game and many replacements.

I just had my first contact with TiR and have no idea who it is.

It says donPablo in the game thread but he doesn't show up in PM.

If anyone knows please post or pm me...better yet if YOU are playing Tir PM me please.:confused:

[don_Pablo]

Hi! I'm still playing Tir.
And it sounds amusingly about first contact because (as I remember)we have a NAP5 treaty and I see you with my scouts for at least last 40turns. :)

As for my view of situation I accept you as a winner of the game mainly because of Arcane Nexus. We can do nothing with it. So I just want to get some fun fighting Helheim. I don't mind you taking that province and don't think that's a reason to break nap.

[GrudgeBringer]

Sorry, it has been a looooong game, I honestly didn't remember the nap and I didn't attackt YOU directly...it was both of us attacking a white flag province.

I accept that we have a Nap of 5 turns. Glad your still with us....you have been real quiet.

And Btw, I DON'T think I am the winner, just because I have AN doesn't mean I win the game. In fact I have not even used it for ANY bad spells on anybody. Remember Arco is peaceful with her philosophers running around asking "Why is there air":)

(the dummies....the reason for air is to blow up footballs and basketballs, EVERYONE knows that!!:p)

[GrudgeBringer]

By the way, I am off agian (sorry guys, it is what I do) to play Minn this weekend. I will not delay this turn but may have to extend the next one 24 hours as I don't get back till late sunday night.

[GrudgeBringer]

The 3 turn Nap with Tir is broken on turn 98 and hostilities if any can begin on 101.

[GrudgeBringer]

I have not heard from Helheim...you still with us Ossa?

[don_Pablo]

The 3 turn Nap with Tir is broken on turn 98 and hostilities if any can begin on 101.

Sad to hear that.. :(

But we have nap5. So on turn 103 if you seek war.

[GrudgeBringer]

I didn't remember us having a Nap 5 so I went thru ALL the postings on here...Look to when you first subbed and you will see I gave you a Nap 3 sight unseen as a way of welcoming you to the game. If you have something different in writing I will honor it but I believe you are mistaken.

I don't want war.....I am happy in my little hole, but you have grown to over 40 provinces at the expense of Helheim (who has 28 now) and after him it will be me. So I might as well get involved although I am very weak compared to the rest of you.

Besides, we are on turn 98 and it is time to finish this up. It has been a good game but the length of time it takes to do the turns (I am in another one that is in the 80's also) is getting tedious.

I must say, I thank you for subbing in and staying with it so well and you are an honorable player.

There are no hard feelings and I would look forward to playing with you agian and having you as an ally.

I want you to notice that I put the Nap termination in the forum for all to see, as I NEVER break my word.

Good luck and it will be fun.:up:

[rdonj]

Sorry, it has been a looooong game, I honestly didn't remember the nap and I didn't attackt YOU directly...it was both of us attacking a white flag province.

I accept that we have a Nap of 5 turns. Glad your still with us....you have been real quiet.

And Btw, I DON'T think I am the winner, just because I have AN doesn't mean I win the game. In fact I have not even used it for ANY bad spells on anybody. Remember Arco is peaceful with her philosophers running around asking "Why is there air":)

(the dummies....the reason for air is to blow up footballs and basketballs, EVERYONE knows that!!:p)

:P

Message too short so I need to add an unnecessary sentence.

[Sensori]

And you guys who're saying that Arco's the winner should remember that even though Arco has AN, Helheim had another supposedly winning global (the Forge) and look where that got him. :p

[GrudgeBringer]

Don_Pablo,

Rdonj, isn't in this game and doesn't know the facts.

I gave you the 3 turn Nap (see the forums) as a reward for subbing and to reassure you that you would not be ganged up on.

When we ran into each other you said we had a 5 turn Nap and while I had said I didn't remember doing that I would accept it.

Well, The more I thought about it the more I couldn't find it in my notes or remember giving a person I had never met a 5 turn Nap, so I read EVERY post until I got the one that stated we have a 3 turn Nap.

You could have said a 10 or 20 turn nap but unless we discussed it (actually I got confused between you and TC who I DO have a 5 turn Nap with) I am not going on an error.

We have a 3 turn Nap and I will honor that...I did not wait until next turn or the turn we where to fight. I looked it up and corrected it the SAME turn I gave the original Nap and I will stick to the 3 turn Nap.

I hope you understand, but if you don't you might want to start taking notes so these things don't reoccur.

As I said, I have no hope to win this game but I am ready to fight now while I have some type of alliance. This game has been fun but slow paced and I am ready for it to come to a climax. As far as I am concerned, you and TC can fight it out for the winner (although Niefl might have something to say about it). I am not a quitter and leaving you with an AI this late in the game is unfair to everyone. So lets wait till turn 98 and Start slapping each other around.:up:

[rdonj]

Okay, grudgebringer sent me a pm a bit worried that I might have been stirring up problems that didn't need to exist, and I apologize for that. I should have explained coherently (rather than just in my head) that I was pointing out where don pablo may have gotten the impression that there was in fact a 5 turn NAP, and that was all I was intending to do. I apologize for any confusion that may have resulted from my action. I of course know nothing about the specific details of NAPs between the players of this game,as I am merely an outside observer.

[don_Pablo]

Well..
I'm confused very much for I can't show you a screenshot of that our dialogue. My old account was deleted so I have no access to messages of that period. :(
As I remmember you offered NAP3 via public forum but later offered NAP5 in private message. But I can't prove that.

So...
I can't but apologize to you.
You are free in your actions.

[GrudgeBringer]

Don_Pablo,

I keep all my messages and the only one I have offered a Nap 5 to is TC, who accepted.

You are an ally with TC, ask him to look thru the forum for the Nap 3.

Listen, I am not picking on you personally as I think both you and TC are very good and honorable players. I would be proud to have you as allies in another game.

This game is dragging on too long and we need to finish it up, you guys will win but at least I will go out fighting and not running...Good luck my friend.

[don_Pablo]

2Niefel: that was a foul trick. Stop spamming my artifact pool.

[GrudgeBringer]

OK, I just checked as I couldn't believe that Helheim's provinces dropped so fast and found out he has staled the last 3 out of 4 times.

Being that Tir and TC are the only ones at war with him and have benefited GREATLY (they have each picked up approx 8 to 10 provinces that I can see from the last time I checked the scores).

The game has become somewhat unbalanced because of this. It is not Tir or TC's fault Helheim staled and it is probably mine for not noticing as admin.

But I personally would not have broken my Nap with Tir if I had known I could attack Helheim with impunity and I believe Niefl and Ulm would feel the same way.

I am putting the game on hold until we figure this out, so let's have opinions please.

What does everyone want to do? This game will NOT be over for 50 more turns I promise you (that might be a record for a MP game).

This has been a good game and we have all learned a lot and got to do some things we haven't got a chance to do before. But personally, the micro management is becoming more of a chore than a joy and 50 more turns will probably not see us all finish the game for one reason or another..

We have a few choices...

1. we can try and find a sub for Helheim and give him a moratorium on attacking him for a spell to let him repair himself.

2. We set Helheim to AI and we all jump on him (but I see that as a problem as some would feel that they are getting a short share).

3. We declare exhaustion, no winner or losers and we let the game die an honorable death.

4. We continue and have real life come into play and people decide the game has gone on long enough.

Let me know what everyone wants to do....

[don_Pablo]

1) I'm sure that the game will be finished in 50 turns or sooner in any case.

2) Helheim started staling after being defeated in some battles not so long ago.

3) Most of prov's he lost are underwater. He has a few possibility to defend them agains remote attacks. And he lost them BEFORE his stales. After stales I took just a couple of his forts and almost none of the provinces.

4) there was a period I thinking stales to be a part of his strategy. He shows his weakness and vulnerability and thus involves you at our war.


As for your suggestion I can agree with any but №3.

[GrudgeBringer]

OK, I appreciate your opinion and will note it.

No one else has made a move to let me know. And YES it WILL go on for 50 turns as there are some suprises next turn from what I understand.

What I am saying is that I am starting to lose interest in 2 seperate 4 hour sessions every turn, and it will only get longer. Helheim going AI is NOT an option I am afraid and I have PM'd Ossa.

Let us see what everyone else has to say. If you could PM TC and ask him to read this I would appreciate it.

Thanks for responding:up:

[GrudgeBringer]

Niefl (Xanatos) sent me this by E-mail as he doesn't use the PM mmuch.

"I am up for it as well, if helheim quit it ruined the game."


I am waiting on Ulm to say what they think and TC what they think.

However, IF Helheim is done, and Niefl is done if Helheim quits, and I don't want to pursue it for the same reasons (along with length of game and turn obligations (although, IF we continue I am going to want to increase the time between turns), then if you guys want to fight it out we can set it to AI and you guys can fight it out although it won't go in the winners HOF.

I did that one time all by myself just because I wanted to try some stuff out.

Like I said, I will put this game on hold till I hear from everyone and hopefully Helheim.:(

[GrudgeBringer]

OK, have not heard from TC, Helheim (who is missing in action),and ULM.

WE have 2 that say if Helheim is gone the game is ruined (Niefl and Arco)

We also have one of them who is getting tired of the micro management and it looks like another Mega game to finish (Arco).

And last but not least we have 1 vote to continue (Tir).

I have set the game to extend for a week, if I can't find a sub for Helheim or we don't come to an agreement, I am pulling out and will try and find a sub for me.

If I don't hear from anyone else quickly I will count the votes as 2 against continuing and 1 for continuing.

It is up to you guys to check these forums and make your feelings known.

[don_Pablo]

Send them a message via Llamaserver interface.

I have an idea what to do. I'll post in a couple of hours.

[don_Pablo]

One of my previous games crashed because of large battles and we had to abandon it. After that I found a way to finish a long game in act of chivalry.

One of players wishes for a Death Match.

Each pretender chooses a Beloved Champion and sends him to win a victory.

I suppose that the more strong your empire is - the more powerful your Champion will be (incl.gears, spells and so on.)

The only spell supposed to be forbidden is banish to Inferno/Cocyto.

So I suggest to declare the winner of that match as a winner of entire game.

It takes us 2 turns only to decide the game.
1st - wishing and sending in-game messages (those who is interested surely will react)
2nd - enjoing the duels and congratulating the winner.

Opinions?

[GrudgeBringer]

As far as winning the game that way is fine....going into the winners HOF that way is not.

That is a list that should not be decided by 1 battle. We have had 100 turns to find a winner and next turn (if we have one there are a number of suprises from what I understand that will tilt the game back to a even position).

Everyone left in this game should be very proud of themselves for going thru all the player changes, rollbacks, delays, and general problrms that we had. This wasn't a Mega-game, I think we had 12 players in it and we still have 6 left. And don't count Ulm out...he has been sitting there untouched, building away and is a VERY good player.

I personally could care less about winning this game. It has been fun interacting with all of you and getting to do some things I have never done before (both prety neat and pretty dumb!!)

But I don't have it in me to spend 8 hours a turn micro managing it with my wife sick and possibly VERY sick (tests this week...results in 2weeks), but that is real life and we all have to go thru it.

I am only speaking for me and you may feel you have an overwhelming position...but I have been in games that someone has an overwhelming position and this isn't one of them...yet.

Go ahead and advertise for players if you want, I have sent a message to Ulm and Helheim and got Niefls response and feeling on it...since TC is your ally I asked you to PM him and have him post. We have a week, and then we will see what we want to do.:up:

[Sensori]

Well, as far as I'm concerned, if Helheim actually just keeps staling, the game IS ruined. It'd be the equivalent of a free meal for its neighbors, and that sucks. Helheim was, and still is, a major player in the game.

And I agree that if we were to do a silly Death Match kind of thing to decide a winner, it shouldn't be a grounds for getting into HoF. :p

[GrudgeBringer]

Ossa (Helheim) Pm'd me today and apologized for not being diligent on his turns and the reason why.

It seems work has taken over his life almost 100%. He also asked me to remember (which I had forgotton) that he was a sub and tried to take a nation with a strong Early and mid game build but a pretty bad late game build and run with it.

He also is being run over by micromanagement and is of the opinion that if there is no clear winner by turn 100 then there is no reason to go another 50 turns to MAYBE find a clear winner.

He has asked that he be allowed to retire from the game, and is trying to find a sub. He doesn't believe anyone is going to want to take over the nation at this stage of a heavy investment of time but he will try.

Gentlemen, that leaves everyone accounted for except TC for an opinion.

I see it this way...If he doesn't find a competent sub for Helheim I believe the game will have become unbalanced and it seems the consensus (Niefl, Arco, Ulm, Helheim) that we abandon the game due to exhaustion. even if TC votes to continue (and I have not heard from him either)Then it is 4 to 2 in favor of letting the game die an honorable death.

I want to thank Ossa for taking over Helheim when he did or we would not have got this far.

Don_Pablo for also subbing and doing a FANTASTIC job and a player to look out for.

Agusti for his masterful play at TC and another up and comer.

Xanatos for never wavering in our alliance and taking all the lumps and setbacks he did without complaining and making his nation a viable contender.

Sensori, the quiet one....who just stayed below the radar and continued the game. Who I also believe just a might more powerful than he puts on.

Thank you all, and I hope we will square off agian. I know I enjoyed it and as I said, I got to do some things (good and bad) that I have always wanted to try. Next turn was going to be a strange one I admit. Best leave it there.

If we don't get a sub for Helheim (and I will be seeking one for me also) and in the absence of a strong argument that will sway the others, I will kill the game Monday, until them it is on hold.

[don_Pablo]

Well,
If all of the rest players are tired there's no sense to look for subs.

I'll send this turn just to see what surprises GB means.
I suppose that to be the last turn.

[GrudgeBringer]

Don_Pablo

I had cast Utterdark (which wouldn't affect you as much as it would nullify TC) and was getting ready to cast Burden of time in 3 turns.

After that I was casting armegeddens every turn to get rid of your mages and any clams you had on them.

We where prepared for that.

Maybe it wouldn't do anything to you but it woul dhave been fun to see if it did.

No sense turning in the turn, now that you said you agree I will just hit kill on Monday, you will get a notice.

Sorry, this is the second game that has gone 100 turns I have been in that no one was wat ahead and we had to kill the other one also. Guess there are just to many equal players around!!:)

[GrudgeBringer]

A HEARTY Thank you to all of us for playing, subbing, being steadfast to your word and alliances and hard fighting for all of us.

There are no losers in this game, and I think we all got a little better, and met some very nice people and good players.

I look forward to playing with all of you agian and hope each and every one of you feel the same.

I am killing this game right at 7 months after its inception.

No quitters in this group!!

Good luck to all:up: