Gem Use for Fatigue/Boosting Skill

[Mysterio]

Hey, folks. I'm a bit confused on gem use as it relates to being able to cast a spell. According to the manual:


only 1 gem can be used to temporarily boost a mage's skill by 1 to cast a single spell
1 gem is needed for every 100 spell fatigue
a mage can not use more gems for skill boosting and spell fatigue than his native skill in a path

Are these all true, and is the gem limit based on the mage's native skill or his current skill prior to casting the spell (i.e., increased via Summon Earthpower, Summon Storm Power, etc.)? I have an example:

I have an E2 mage that wants to cast Earthquake. I use Summon Earthpower to get him to E3 for the battle, and then an earth gem to get him to E4 to be able to cast the spell. Since Earthquake has 300 fatigue, he needs an additional 3 earth gems, bringing the total number of gems for skill boosting and spell fatigue to 4, which is two more than his native skill in earth (E2). According to the manual, he would not be able to cast Earthquake in this manner. Is that correct?

Also, assuming he could cast Earthquake in this manner, would he have to use an additional 3 earth gems, since the spell description says the spell requires 3 earth gems?

I feel like I'm not reading the manual correctly. TIA for any help!

[Frozen Lama]

I THINK that he cannot cast it since with earthpower he only has E3. (i think that lets him use another gem) but then he still needs 4 to cast the spell. either way, he can't cast it

[Shadrach]

Testing confirms that an E2 mage casting Summon Earthpower will not cast Earthquake (he will happily spam Summon Earth Elemental at three gems a pop, however). Adding Boots of Earth, the mage will cast Earthquake with four gems, if available, three for Earthquake and one which cuts fatigue in half, giving himself 150 fatigue + encumbrance.

[Psycho]

Hey, folks. I'm a bit confused on gem use as it relates to being able to cast a spell. According to the manual:


only 1 gem can be used to temporarily boost a mage's skill by 1 to cast a single spell
1 gem is needed for every 100 spell fatigue
a mage can not use more gems for skill boosting and spell fatigue than his native skill in a path

Are these all true, and is the gem limit based on the mage's native skill or his current skill prior to casting the spell (i.e., increased via Summon Earthpower, Summon Storm Power, etc.)?

Everything here is true. Gem limit is based on the current skill prior to casting the spell.

In the example, the mage has E3 after summon earthpower and needs 4 gems to cast earthquake (1 for boosting his level to E4 and 3 for the spell itself). He cannot do it because he can use up at most 3 gems in one casting with his current skill of E3.

[Mysterio]

Hey, folks. I'm a bit confused on gem use as it relates to being able to cast a spell. According to the manual:


only 1 gem can be used to temporarily boost a mage's skill by 1 to cast a single spell
1 gem is needed for every 100 spell fatigue
a mage can not use more gems for skill boosting and spell fatigue than his native skill in a path

Are these all true, and is the gem limit based on the mage's native skill or his current skill prior to casting the spell (i.e., increased via Summon Earthpower, Summon Storm Power, etc.)?

Everything here is true. Gem limit is based on the current skill prior to casting the spell.

In the example, the mage has E3 after summon earthpower and needs 4 gems to cast earthquake (1 for boosting his level to E4 and 3 for the spell itself). He cannot do it because he can use up at most 3 gems in one casting with his current skill of E3.

So any spells (not gems) that boost a skill also boost the number of gems that can be used to cast the spell?

I guess I'm confused by spell descriptions and the manual stating that one gem is needed for every 100 fatigue. Looking at the description for Earthquake, it says it needs 3 earth gems and has a 300 fatigue. Assuming I have an E4 mage, does that mean it takes 3 earth gems + another 3 for the 300 fatigue (1 gem per 100 fatigue), or is the "Requires 3 earth gems" in the spell's description a result of the spell's fatigue cost (so only 3 gems are required instead of 6)?

[Psycho]

Hey, folks. I'm a bit confused on gem use as it relates to being able to cast a spell. According to the manual:


only 1 gem can be used to temporarily boost a mage's skill by 1 to cast a single spell
1 gem is needed for every 100 spell fatigue
a mage can not use more gems for skill boosting and spell fatigue than his native skill in a path

Are these all true, and is the gem limit based on the mage's native skill or his current skill prior to casting the spell (i.e., increased via Summon Earthpower, Summon Storm Power, etc.)?

Everything here is true. Gem limit is based on the current skill prior to casting the spell.

In the example, the mage has E3 after summon earthpower and needs 4 gems to cast earthquake (1 for boosting his level to E4 and 3 for the spell itself). He cannot do it because he can use up at most 3 gems in one casting with his current skill of E3.

So any spells (not gems) that boost a skill also boost the number of gems that can be used to cast the spell?

I guess I'm confused by spell descriptions and the manual stating that one gem is needed for every 100 fatigue. Looking at the description for Earthquake, it says it needs 3 earth gems and has a 300 fatigue. Assuming I have an E4 mage, does that mean it takes 3 earth gems + another 3 for the 300 fatigue (1 gem per 100 fatigue), or is the "Requires 3 earth gems" in the spell's description a result of the spell's fatigue cost (so only 3 gems are required instead of 6)?

Yes, any spell that boosts a path also boosts the number of gems that can be spent on later spells.

The gem cost for a spell is what the description says and it's a result of the spell's fatigue. So, for earthquake it's 3 gems, not 3+3.

[FAJ]

How much fatigue would a natural 4 earth mage accrue from casting Earthquake with just 3 gems? 38+encumberance?

[thejeff]

Earthquake is E4, 3 gems, 300 fatigue, right?
He's casting it with the minimum requirements, so he'd take 300 fatigue + encumbrance, which will get capped at 200.
Gems for the spell's cost don't reduce fatigue.

[chrispedersen]

The formula is rather simple btw.

1/(Mage Path +1 - Path Required) * listed fatigue + Enc Fatigue.


So if your mage is e4, with enc 3, casting an e4 spell

1/((4+1 -3) * 300 = 150 + 3 = 153 fatigue

If you cast Summon Earthpower...so you are now an e5:

1/((5+1) - 3) * 300 = 100 + 3 = 103 fatigue.

[thejeff]

Except it's an E4 spell so wouldn't that be:

1/((4+1 -4) * 300 = 300 + 3 = 303 fatigue -> capped to 200.

153 after Summon Earthpower or with a gem.

[FAJ]

what if it is a multi-path spell? Does the reduced fatigue come from your excess skill in both paths, or just one?

[thejeff]

Only the main path, the first one listed.
Just as spells can only use one type of gem, possibly to simplify that calculation.

[Illuminated One]

Everything here is true. Gem limit is based on the current skill prior to casting the spell.

In the example, the mage has E3 after summon earthpower and needs 4 gems to cast earthquake (1 for boosting his level to E4 and 3 for the spell itself). He cannot do it because he can use up at most 3 gems in one casting with his current skill of E3.

So any spells (not gems) that boost a skill also boost the number of gems that can be used to cast the spell?

I guess I'm confused by spell descriptions and the manual stating that one gem is needed for every 100 fatigue. Looking at the description for Earthquake, it says it needs 3 earth gems and has a 300 fatigue. Assuming I have an E4 mage, does that mean it takes 3 earth gems + another 3 for the 300 fatigue (1 gem per 100 fatigue), or is the "Requires 3 earth gems" in the spell's description a result of the spell's fatigue cost (so only 3 gems are required instead of 6)?

Yes, any spell that boosts a path also boosts the number of gems that can be spent on later spells.

The gem cost for a spell is what the description says and it's a result of the spell's fatigue. So, for earthquake it's 3 gems, not 3+3.

I don't think this is true. At least it has happened to me that I summon earthpowered someone to be able to cast a spell and he didn't do it. Considering this was against LA Ermor enemy force to small can't be the reason.

[Psycho]

So any spells (not gems) that boost a skill also boost the number of gems that can be used to cast the spell?

I guess I'm confused by spell descriptions and the manual stating that one gem is needed for every 100 fatigue. Looking at the description for Earthquake, it says it needs 3 earth gems and has a 300 fatigue. Assuming I have an E4 mage, does that mean it takes 3 earth gems + another 3 for the 300 fatigue (1 gem per 100 fatigue), or is the "Requires 3 earth gems" in the spell's description a result of the spell's fatigue cost (so only 3 gems are required instead of 6)?

Yes, any spell that boosts a path also boosts the number of gems that can be spent on later spells.

The gem cost for a spell is what the description says and it's a result of the spell's fatigue. So, for earthquake it's 3 gems, not 3+3.

I don't think this is true. At least it has happened to me that I summon earthpowered someone to be able to cast a spell and he didn't do it. Considering this was against LA Ermor enemy force to small can't be the reason.

In my experience so far it is true. Give more details about your case.

[Shadrach]

My test showed an E3 mage using four gems to cast Earthquake after using Summon Earthpower, so boosting with spells definitely lets you cast things you couldn't cast otherwise, and also use more gems than you could otherwise.

[Mysterio]

My test showed an E3 mage using four gems to cast Earthquake after using Summon Earthpower, so boosting with spells definitely lets you cast things you couldn't cast otherwise, and also use more gems than you could otherwise.

Actually, you didn't prove that. As an E3 mage, he's allowed to use 3 gems max total for boosting his path + paying the cost to cast the spell. Since Earthquake (an E4 spell) costs 3 earth gems, he can not boost his path by +1 with a gem (he'd need 4 earth gems total when he's only allowed to use 3). But casting Summon Earthpower boosts his path to E4 for the entire battle, so he no longer needs to use a gem to +1 boost. At E4, he's now at the level required to cast it and uses the 3 earth gems to pay the spell's cost.

[Illuminated One]

In my experience so far it is true. Give more details about your case.

Iirc e1 mage with summon earthpower + 2 gems for rain of stones.

[Shadrach]

At E4, he's now at the level required to cast it and uses the 3 earth gems to pay the spell's cost.
Which is why I mentioned that the fourth gem was used for fatigue reduction. Showing definitively that those gems could all be used for raising a level and paying required costs would take additional tests.

[thejeff]

In my experience so far it is true. Give more details about your case.

Iirc e1 mage with summon earthpower + 2 gems for rain of stones.

I am unsure what happened in your case, but I tested it. Vandrott with 3A1E and 6 gems, scripted to Summon Earthpower, Rain of Stones.
Used 1 gem to cast Summon Earthpower.
Used 2 gem to cast Rain of Stones.

(The barbarians mostly died or ran, except for 1 of the leaders who went berserk, ran up and ran the poor unconscious Vandrott through. The price we pay for science)

[Shadrach]

thejeff beat me to to it, but

Iirc e1 mage with summon earthpower + 2 gems for rain of stones.
Summon Earthpower is E2, so casting it would use up a gem. Rain of Stones is E3 and requires one gem, so casting it requires two more gems, making a total of three for this combo. I ran a test, and an E1 mage will do this given three gems to work with. So an E1 mage can use two gems to cast an E3 spell with the help of Summon Earthpower, even though none of them were used for fatigue reduction.

Now an observant person will note that this still doesn't prove that both gems could be used to cast an X2 spell that requires two gems. As it happens there is no such earth spell, but an S1 mage can cast Power of the Spheres and then use two gems to cast Returning, so that seems to work also.