SP, MLRS and SPAA Developments

[Suhiir]

No they don't arrived and is no any information that they are in transfer. Poland ordered 500 Himars. First mentioned will be on Oshkosh American truck rest 480 will be build on place on Jelcz chassis.
500???

I seriously doubt the US Army and USMC have 500 M270s/Himars between them.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The sale of HIMARS is still in the proposal stage. The Dept. of State has approved the sale and has notified Congress which will have to approve it. From there it goes to the President. All will approve of the sale. It will take some time.

Before I continue that'll be 18 launcher systems (Truck mounted) and 468 HIMARS Launcher Loader Module kits (Weapons Pods.) plus more as ref below breaks down nicely.)

As is mostly the case correct my "marine buddy" is seriously correct.

One of my "*****es" out here but please contain your enthusiasm, take a deep breath and proceed to read your sources carefully and slowly to avoid confusion and possible unnecessary work.

And I've been there myself and for those that have been here awhile, might remember my fun with MRAPS (For your entertainment as time allows, you'll find it all at the start of that Thread.) back when I thought I could be of some help out here!?! :rolleyes: ;) :D

Indications are unlike the ones sent to the Ukraine, Poland's will be "new build" ones and not from USA inventory for which we've also have contracted Lockheed Martin to build new units to replace (Ones sent to the Ukraine.) and to further increase our inventory of HIMARS.

If the decision in the end should change and be taken from USA inventory instead, I feel your date should be about right.

But this article clearly states Lockheed Martin has been contracted to fulfill the Poland contract in which case you'll be looking at 1 - 1.5 years.

If we continue sending more from our stocks to the Ukraine in the interim, you can guess who'll have priority in the new production units. It won't be Poland.

The world is focused on the Ukraine but given recent events here in regard to China to include the cancellation of the Sec. of State visit that was scheduled for next week, things are a little more tense now.

Some reputable "think tanks" see the possibility we might go to a limited war with China as early as 2025 given current events. This has been reported by the "mainstream" media here.

This of course is hypothetical at this point but, if the trend continues, you'll see a policy shift more towards the Far East from us over time.

My best guess is at least a year away or more for Poland. The para below from the ref would seem to support this.

"The principal contractor will be Lockheed Martin, Grand Prairie, TX. Implementation of this proposed sale will require U.S. Government or contractor representatives to travel to Poland for program management reviews to support the program. Travel is expected to occur approximately twice per year as needed to support equipment fielding and training.

This notice of a potential sale is required by law. The description and dollar value is for the highest estimated quantity and dollar value based on initial requirements. Actual dollar value will be lower depending on final requirements, budget authority, and signed sales agreement(s), if and when concluded."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_february_2023_global_security_army_in dustry/poland_buying_18_m142_himars_launchers_and_rockets _for_usd_10_billion.html

On a side issue while "We are fighting our annual War on Terror" please PM me for "drop dead date" to send my final submission to include 5 new build tanks (Across 4 countries.) with some changes to an OOB (Done with one new build and an export almost finished. ).

And no, I'm NOT saying for who or what. You stay with the Ukraine etc. as I've invested too much on this project not to finish it myself for this submission or next with all due respect.

I need some sleep next week "the world is going to ****" and we're just ramping up to it. :p

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Suhiir]

Before I continue that'll be 18 launcher systems (Truck mounted) and 468 HIMARS Launcher Loader Module kits (Weapons Pods.) plus more as ref below breaks down nicely.)

OK, 500 Launcher Loader Modules make far more sense.
Still a lot for 18 launchers, 26 each.
Thanx !

[DRG]

FWIW ( and it's always a moving target ) I would want all info / scenarios etc to me by late March for both games. That is not a release date. Late march gives us time to assemble check and recheck without a "Columbo" "just one more thing...." distraction..... there will ALWAYS be "just one more thing" but a line needs to be drawn

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

And as I discussed in my last post comes this today.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-general-to-aggressors-allies-are-battle-ready-in-asia/ar-AA17hbgZ?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=747a2a87c5b54f56a6e5fbeafb786884

Now to lunch and work.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

There is a lot of info regarding the US sending Ukraine RIM-7 ( or maybe it's the ESSM....maybe, maybe not ) for use with Ukraines 9K37/SA-11's


There seems to be a number of different potential configurations

I have seen photos of twin set ups but that was with the ESSM
I have seen photos of a Czech project that mounts the ESSM with 3 missiles each in an enclosed tube
I have seen 4 missiles exposed
Naval launchers have 4x2 missiles


FOR NOW I have them in the OOB with 4 just as the existing SA-11 with the Buk

This is NOT a request for anyone to start digging but if anyone sees something in a week or two or three... post it here.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I've got an old friend I've known for 50yrs+ on the road to here now.

So, I can have the night free to spend with us, I came across these two articles concerning the GEPARD apparently, they're performing better than maybe was anticipated.

I posted on the planned "minor" tweaks made to improve the systems but, more importantly the "newer" round it's also using that I previously posted on and provided a video showing its use in combat by the Ukraine.
"They fire the potent 35×228 mm standard NATO round in a range of types, such as HEI (High-Explosive Incendiary), FAPDS (Frangible Armor-Piercing Discarding-Sabot) and SAPHEI (Semi Armor-Piercing High-Explosive Incendiary). Usually Gepards are loaded with around 320 anti-aircraft rounds and 20 armor piercing rounds per gun."

This the first time they've been used in combat from what I can find. So bottom-line it works very well.

So, you can consider this post a SITREP.
https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-war-german-tanks-destroy-iranian-drones-1756993
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/what-are-gepard-panzers-german-anti-aircraft-tanks-sent-to-ukraine/ar-AA17oBrA?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=7a5333b2683d4d7c9b44c01f1323b93f

Anyway, company is here!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I'll try to keep this "short and sweet" the Sea Sparrow (RIM-7) is a USN system that's been around for decades but has had several modifications over the years which has been continued to this day.

Take NOTE of the picture in ref 1, my Son-in-Law is in charge of those and associated systems on his Carrier. Those SAM systems are highly accurate" and can attack "sea skimmers" down to 6 or 8 meters and anything above that. If it fly's it's a target.

That being said the primary purpose is to take out cruise missiles.

Ukraine is not receiving the USA version at this time. We were smart enough in its development to introduce a variant that was/is capable to operate with the 9K37 Buk missile system which is what the Ukraine currently operates.

I believe this will be a more capable missile than the currently used 9М38M1 missile.
https://www.technology.org/2023/01/06/rim-7-sea-sparrow-missiles-coming-to-ukraine-why-receiving-this-weapon-is-important/
https://weaponsystems.net/system/1391-RIM-7%20Sea%20Sparrow
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/ukraines_buk_sam_will_receive_rim_7_sea_sparrow_mi ssiles_which_solves_missile_shortage_problem-5354.html
https://www.navy.mil/Resources/Fact-Files/Display-FactFiles/Article/2168965/seasparrow-missile-rim-7/

With a 90lb. warhead moving at Mach 3/3.5 that's a BAD DAY for a HIND or anything else within its range.

Just "BUK'em out!!" :D

If you have any questions let me know-I'm out, seeing the Doc later in the morning.

Oh, before I forget the timing on them receiving those missiles should coincide with the delivery of BRADLEY as they were in the same weapons package.

EDIT: TAIWAN uses them for land purposes as the SKYGUARD SHORAD system as well as in Naval capacity. Other operators as listed in ref. 2 I believe are used only for Naval applications.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

While digging around for info I found this.....

In December 2020, Germany's Federal Security Council issued a final export license for the sale of 15 Gepard self-propelled anti-aircraft tracked armored vehicles to Qatar, which were delivered in 2021.

https://i.imgur.com/o8omJFq.png

So I dutifully put the Gepard into the Gulf States OOB and built an icon.........
https://i.imgur.com/Cf8Ngxl.png

and got it all done then found this...........

as of Feb 2023 it was announced that Germany wants to buy the 15 Gepard anti-aircraft tanks with ammunition back from Qatar and send them to the Ukrainian Armed Forces

:banghead :banghead :banghead

< I LOVE my job........>:rolleyes:

SERIOUSLY.... How many times has a weapon been sold then 6 months later the seller asks for it back so they can give it to someone else? WHAT ARE THE ODDS?

[scorpio_rocks]

I love the icon though please keep it in the files!

[DRG]

I love the icon though please keep it in the files!

No worries.........:)

https://i.imgur.com/Ikp06ky.png

I just followed the camo pattern and colours from the photo. I did not realize when I did it would match the map that came up so well

[blazejos]

Also Viktor will be produced in bigger number in Czech. On first glance this vehicle look like simple technical Toyota with AA ZPU-2 but is more complicated. They must be some simple computer onboard because is possible to rotate turret and elevation by automatics so looks like something in between technicals and fully professional vehicle.

https://en.defence-ua.com/news/netherlands_will_buy_hundreds_of_anti_shahed_mount ed_guns_for_ukraine-5774.html

https://en.defence-ua.com/media/contentimages/a8663ef7455b3ea6.jpg

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Russia appears to have a "new toy" in service.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/ukraine_-_russia_conflict_war_2022/russian_army_uses_in_ukraine_2s34_hosta_latest_gen eration_of_120mm_self-propelled_mortar.html

What is very useful is its listing of current and stored artillery systems.

Had a wonderful day/evening in the "oldest city" in the U.S. just a fast hour down the road-well worth a day off from work!! ;)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

I will get that in and in the process of checking "discovered" Russian unit 581 is NOT a SP mortar the GAZ-66 is just the transport. The mortar is not fired from the truck..... at least that's what it appears at 3:30 in the morning. Will dig deeper tomorrow but 581 may end up being replaced with the 2S34 Hosta....... at least I think it might be. We'll see when I have a better look at things tomorrow and it turns out it's only used in one scenario it seems

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

GAZ-66 you are correct it is only a mortar transport.
https://military-today.com/trucks/gaz_66.htm
"The GAZ-66 is used to carry a Vasilyek 82 mm automatic mortar. This vehicle/weapon combination known as the 2B9."
https://weaponsystems.net/system/1140-120mm%202B11%20Sani
"When introduced in 1981 the 2F510 4x4 light truck was used, which is a modified GAZ-66. In the 2000's the 2S12A was developed, which is based around the larger and more capable Ural-43206 4x4 truck."

Hopefully this will cover the issue for you. ;)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Hopefully this will cover the issue for you. ;)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Unit 581 - 2S12 Sani has been removed. The truck-transported Mortars are already covered so it is only removed as an "SP mortar" because it never was

One scenario used that unit and it has been adjusted.

Unit 581 in the RUS OOB is now the S34 Hosta which actually is kinda a gun/mortar hybrid but it's under the SP mortar UC now

[blazejos]

Article about Hosta service on frontline and aparently one of them is trophy of Ukrainian Army

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/russians_bring_more_rare_hosta_hybrid_spgs_to_ukra inian_frontlines-5843.html

[MarkSheppard]

Guys....I hate to break it to you, but the Russians have added even MORE variants.

https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1632079968237649922

Some more Russian MT-LBs now equipped with 14.5mm 2M-7 and 12.7mm DShK naval gun mounts.

One MT-LB fitted with a 2M-7 naval gun mount has already been captured by Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/clashreport/status/1632037542466920448

New Russian innovation: MT-LB APC with 25mm naval gun 2M-3.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I'm only speaking for myself here but, I think we need to be careful with some of these type units especially for ones like Russia where slots are and, in some cases, have been an issue for many years now.

Though now unlikely at this point, we still might see some of these long-projected projects possibly being able "see the light of day" from domestic production.

With Russia we (I already am.) we need to keep our eye on the ball as Iran is offering other weapons and I'm not quite sure what China is going to do with arms being sent to Russia.

On the Diplomatic side things aren't currently looking to good at the moment for the West.

However, since Xi already ordered his military to be ready to execute a possible invasion of Taiwan by 2027, it makes sense to me if I was him to see how well my equipment will hold up not only in the battlefield but, in the battlefield against Western equipment and tactics.

That's how Taiwan was equipped and trained.

And China is in a much better position to supply them (As compared to the West.) very easily 300 - 400 tanks within a year or less if they wanted to via the secure rail network that both countries operate.

Domestically not much we can do about sanctions as both our countries are so intertwined economically.

A demonstration to validate my immediate above comment, we look to Germany. Even before the war I posted somethings out there concerning the overall tank shortages in the West and Germany was one of them. I believe I had pinned them done with around 250 tanks this is to include the LEOPARD 2A5 (20/22) that currently use for advanced tank operational training before the crews are assigned to their units.

In short Germany is trying to buy back some of the LEOPARDS they sold to neutral Switzerland. These are not for the Ukraine but to replenish to BUNDESWEHR.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/germany-also-wants-switzerlands-leopard-1-tanks-swiss-newspaper/ar-AA18dFN6
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/germany-aims-to-replace-leopards-sent-to-ukraine-by-buying-back-swiss-tanks/450070804.html
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/germany-aims-to-replace-leopards-sent-to-ukraine-by-buying-back-swiss-tanks/450070804.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

There are already three MT-LBM variants in the Russian OOB that have been renationalized by me because their status was "iffy" so technically there are three slots that could be used but that does not mean they will or won't

[blazejos]

Now info about self-propelled mortars in Ukrainian army

They snatched on the beginning of war 2x Hosta from Russians with tractors

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/ukrainian_tractor_troops_saptured_the_rare_hosta_2 s34-2443.html

but haven't analogous vehicle so the went this way and created 2S17-2 Nona-SV which is BMP-1+2S9 Nona self-propelled 120-mm mortar tower

https://en.defence-ua.com/industries/ukrainian_version_of_the_nona_self_propelled_morta r_on_the_bmp_chassis_went_into_series_video-6004.html

But that is short term solution for now improvisation during wartime for longer term they consider use of Polish RAK tower on Gvozdika chassis wich they have themself
https://en.defence-ua.com/industries/ukraine_lacks_mortar_systems_what_the_potential_so lutions_to_the_problem_are-5865.html

Sivalka MLRS is based on Grad-P and different chassis like HMMWV and pickups
https://en.defence-ua.com/industries/the_optimal_mobile_mlrs_in_service_with_the_armed_ forces_of_ukraine_the_looks_and_specs-5968.html

Here about new usage upgrade of old DShK
https://en.defence-ua.com/media/illustration/articles/098640c38a8cec56.jpg

A Ukrainian warrior hunting on some air target with DShKM heavy machine gun that is equipped with a Canadian GSCI Advanced Photonics TI-GEAR-S thermal optic, complete with HMD-800-MOD monocular attached

[Suhiir]

Guys....I hate to break it to you, but the Russians have added even MORE variants.

Take for instance the HMMWV.
Unarmored vs armored (2)
Unarmed vs 7.62 MMG vs 7.62 Gat vs 12.7mm HMG vs 12.7mm Gat vs 40mm AGL vs TOW ATGM (7)
No night vision vs typical night vision vs thermal (3)

So we have 2x7x3=42 variants on the simple HMMWV.

And these are just the probable not possible variants; i.e ground radar, forward observation, configured for passengers or cargo, ambulance, etc. etc. etc.

All OOBs are an exercise in "probable" vs "possible".

[blazejos]

New Russian innovation: MT-LB APC with 25mm naval gun 2M-3.

Saga with MT-LB-2M-3 continues now even in Russia they have serious question that this is a serious adequate AA vehicle :doh: if they have also simple MT-LB with ZU-23?

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/unexpected_issues_with_their_new_hybrid_aa_gun_eve n_russians_are_skeptical_about_the_compatibility_o f_ml_lb_and_2m_3-6046.html

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Along with what will be the CHALLENGER 2 EXPORT the AS-90 has not been delivered yet. However, the 2nd Group of AS-90 crews has just completed training in the UK from Ukraine.

What is other noteworthy here is the article gives us the accelerated training timeframe for those crews at 2 months. The ref is sourced from UK Defence Ministry on Twitter.

"A group of Ukrainian military personnel arrived in the United Kingdom for training with AS-90 self-propelled howitzers in early February."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/second-group-of-ukrainian-artillery-crews-completes-training-on-as-90-self-propelled-howitzers-in-uk/ar-AA19nVzi?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=fb69f67f15174026aea6d924770d67da&ei=363


A fair amount of the AS-90 are going to the Ukraine, because of this they'll need to replace these quickly to maintain their defense posture but, with what? One of the BEST in the world.
https://des.mod.uk/des-secures-archer-artillery-systems-to-replace-as90-for-british-army/
(These appear to be new build systems with FOC April 2024.)

On the "face of it" I would've dismissed this system BELOW out of hand, however, after reading it's CEP and Blast Radius data, I'm going to post it and see what happens. From the ref.

FOC/START MAR 2023.

"The Grim-2 operational-tactical missile system is being developed to target individual and group stationary targets at distances ranging from 50 to 280 km. The single-stage ballistic missiles warhead is designed with a mass of 480 kg. The payload can be configured as a unitary or cluster. The unitary configuration uses a fragmentation-high-explosive or penetrating fragmentation-high-explosive payload. The cluster payload is equipped with fragmentation-high-explosive sub-munitions. The missile's estimated impact area with a fragmentation-high-explosive payload is over 10,000 m², while a cluster charge covers 2-3 hectares. The missile, together with its 7.2-meter launch container, weighs 3.5 tons. The missile's onboard control system is inertial and comes with various navigation and guidance systems, such as radar-based and optoelectronic systems (Mine-In other words it's a precision guided weapon.) .

Multiple sources suggest that the 280 km range is a formal limitation for the export version of the missile. However, for its own army's requirements, the system's firing range could be increased to 450-500 km."

Someday soon say maybe they'll say "Goodbye" to that bridge at that extended range (Or without.).
https://www.armyrecognition.com/ukraine_-_russia_conflict_war_2022/ukraine_deploys_its_new_grim-2_mobile_ballistic_missile_to_fight_russian_troops .html
http://www.military-today.com/missiles/grom_ballistic_missile.htm
(REPORTS, IT CARRIES 2 MISSILES.)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Also this month the Ukraine has reactivated their KS 19 100mm AA systems. They are being used as Field Artillery and in the AT mode as well. They originally entered service in 1947.
"It has a maximum firing range of approximately 15 km and can reach targets flying at up to 10 km. The gun can fire up to 15 rounds per minute with a variety of ammunition types: high explosive, armor-piercing, and fragmentation rounds. “Effective against light armor and other ground targets,” is how the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency described the KS-19 in 1969."

It is unsure fully whether they'll be used in Combat or Training of Artillery personal.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/ukraine_-_russia_conflict_war_2022/ukrainian_army_reactivating_early_cold_war-era_ks-19_100mm_guns.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_russian_army_light_heavy_weapons_uk/ks-19_100mm_anti-aircraft_gun_cannon_technical_data_sheet_specifica tions_description_pictures_video.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

in the game for about a week or so now and it has a greater range than 15km. Three sources, one armyrecognition gives 15,000 m vertical and 21,000 m horizontalwhich is 211 in the game

[blazejos]

Now because is not enaugh MT-LB such 2M-3 naval guns are mounted on ATG-59 Arty tractors

https://andrei-bt.livejournal.com/2073124.html

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiWY-emCIodLoR-BFYoYdq7kOFGDA2IygaG0PHb8dCDGVotw1Ycwd75m-ckaK9kOY5SwCmHiXfX6RWQnG7OiEFldMWx-whUCrfyrC9C5ZwACJu_VOVDEmg5DjPp6rxALqtia3yc5nS7JQT qBWPpdQ0W-b6Jjmkl29rRDBMZ2UW5WgDu6726Im2IPdw_hQ/s1495/320908.png

[DRG]

Now because is not enaugh MT-LB such 2M-3 naval guns are mounted on ATG-59 Arty tractors

Funny how things work out. Looked into the ATG-59 and discovered the Egyptians have used them to build MLRS.......

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS7u-i9hFZLkDjK3laRlsb1fNqiTsA9N404JN53tXWzvqe3NlMPytDm CUoAmhmq1dv0FDA&usqp=CAU

.....which are now in the game........:D

https://i.imgur.com/1beThua.png

[blazejos]

My mistake is called ATS-59

ATS-59 https://weaponsystems.net/system/1005-ATS-59
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/ATS-59-batey-haosef.jpg/300px-ATS-59-batey-haosef.jpg


ATS-59G https://weaponsystems.net/system/1006-ATS-59G
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f4/ATS-59G_tractor.jpg/300px-ATS-59G_tractor.jpg

AT-S https://weaponsystems.net/system/1004-AT-S was build earlier

https://photo.weaponsystems.net/image/s-carousel/n-ve_prime_at-s_p05.jpg/--/img/ws/ve_prime_at-s_p05.jpg

Poland have also their own vehicle called D-350 Mazur was build in year 1960 to 1961 then Art tractors where unified amongs Warsaw Pact members and ATS-59G was build in Poland until 1989 but Mazur's which where alredy build where used by LWP until around 1985. Many around 218 in 1960 were sold to Czechoslovakia and know there as "Gomulkova pomsta" [Gomulka revenge]. Small number were given to North Vietnam army during Vietnam war and also used there during fights

Czechoslovak army photo
http://opisybroni.pl/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/d_-_350_mazur_136-300x255.jpg

LWP
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/61/Mazur_D-350_ci%C4%85gnik_artyleryjski.jpg/290px-Mazur_D-350_ci%C4%85gnik_artyleryjski.jpg

LWP
https://www.reddit.com/r/tanks/comments/sjct9h/mazur_d350_polish_artillery_tractor_it_shared_75/

http://the.shadock.free.fr/Surviving_D-350_Mazur.pdf

[DRG]

Yep-----It's the ATS-59G I built

https://i.imgur.com/nIwBrnk.png

[blazejos]

But front cabin look's more like ATS-59 without G ;) anyway is great


More info if you are intrested or meaby not ;)
ATS-59
https://www.mojehobby.pl/zdjecia/8/4/6/36324_zrzut-ekranu-2020-12-10-o-08-57-08.png
https://mortarinvestments.eu/userfiles/files/00032231.jpg

ATS-59G there was even a dozer variant :rolleyes:
https://mortarinvestments.eu/userfiles/files/ats59g_blade05.jpg

https://www.mojehobby.pl/zdjecia/2/2/1/36325_zrzut-ekranu-2020-12-10-o-11-00-59.png

[DRG]

But front cabin look's more like ATS-59 without G ;) anyway is great

Really ?....... how many front windows does the basic ATS-59 have and does the cab go all the way to the edge?

answer ----- 3 and No.

This would be an early 59
https://i.imgur.com/nvY6nK1.png

[blazejos]

Right good point meaby that is a hybrid between both versions ;)

[DRG]

https://i.imgur.com/F8L0ryE.png

[blazejos]

will be not too much If I ask also about Mazur D-350 [correct name] :)
Dimensions will be the same as ATS-59 both vehicles are based on the same T-54/55 chasis only arangament of cabin is slighty different (may be used in Vietnam scenerios :D)

Plans
https://www.hubertcance.com/large-multi-view/Plan-Drawings-Tracked-Vehicles-Post-1945/3500768-111-271870/Drawing/mazur-d-350.html

Detailed scale model
http://www.kartonowki.pl/modele-galeria/model/4290,mazur-d-350

data and Chechoslovak version pictures
https://www.armedconflicts.com/POL-D-350-Mazur-t19582

[DRG]

???????????????

Polish unit 549

[blazejos]

???????????????

Polish unit 549

You have right is existing :doh:

{5453, -1}, //3053. D-350 tractor- green
{5454, -1}, //3054. D-350 Tractor Polish

Proposition of improvment of this two icon's for usage by
- Czechoslovakia
- North Vietnam
- Poland

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16865&stc=1&d=1681862701

To finish Artilery tractors in WP forces the have also

AT-L light tractor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT-L
https://www.armedconflicts.com/SOV-AT-L-t19954

AT-T heavy one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT-T (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT-T)
http://www.os1.ru/article/6371-tyajeliy-artilleriyskiy-tyagach-at-t

[DRG]

[

Proposition of improvment of this two icon's for usage by
- Czechoslovakia
- North Vietnam
- Poland


I made corrections

https://i.imgur.com/3jyBPei.png

The engine cover is smooth and there were five cross supports over the body of the vehicle

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/MAZUR_D-350_%281%29.jpg

[zovs66]

Those look really good!

[DRG]

AT-T heavy one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT-T (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT-T)
http://www.os1.ru/article/6371-tyajeliy-artilleriyskiy-tyagach-at-t


Done with icons for this year now. I will be starting both games patch/upgrade assembly soon so any new additions or adjustments will only be made for very significant items


https://i.imgur.com/B4aOBDd.png

[blazejos]

2M3 Naval Guns became famous after all this installations on MT-LB & ATS-59G

Here meme from twitter https://twitter.com/Me_of_EE Tolkien fans

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqjNsbyWAAoeouY?format=jpg&name=small

Look also on two of their maps

How would it be if Mordor was russia?
Map made in Mordor:
https://twitter.com/Me_of_EE/status/1599534449217048576?cxt=HHwWgMCoueuG2LIsAAAA

Middle-earth of Eastern Europe:
https://twitter.com/Me_of_EE/status/1570392439969689600/photo/1

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The following is HUGE in its ramifications and breaks the "myth" of "Hypersonic" missiles and its "invincibility".

Your teaser the rest is on you the "reader"!
"CNN notes that while the Patriot system has been successful in countering ballistic missiles, its ability to stop air-launched hypersonic missiles was purely theoretical before last week."

And that has been the thinking for quite some time now even beyond our Patriot Systems.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-does-not-doubt-veracity-of-ukraine-s-statement-about-kinzhal-interception-cnn/ar-AA1aShBo?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=e73ad17716734adb8bbd0b0d08728a59&ei=12
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/for-the-first-time-a-patriot-missile-has-killed-one-of-russia-s-hypersonic-missiles/ar-AA1aTAXj
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/u-s-patriot-system-behind-downing-of-russian-hypersonic-missile-ukraine/ar-AA1aPGkQ
(NOTE: THE BOTTOM UKRAINIAN PICTURE THAT IS A TRUCK MOUNTED SYSTEM WHICH MOST EUROPEAN COUNTRIES ARE USING. THAT SYSTEM APPEARS TO BE A GERMAN ONE AS IT'S MOUNTED CLEARLY ON A MAN 8x8 TRUCK. WE ALSO HAVE THEM MOUNTED ON THE OSH KOSH TRUCKS AS USED WITH HIMARS.)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Suhiir]

Hats off to the crew of that Ukrainian Patriot battery!
One of the main issues with hypersonic missiles is limited target acquisition time.

[blazejos]

New invention on Russian side T-54&57mm AA gun hybrid

https://v.wpimg.pl/ODJjNzgzYCUrCDhJSAFtMGhQbBMOWGNmP0h0WEhCd3IyXndCSB wmKC8YKwoIVCg2PxovDRdUPyhlCz4TSAx-ay4DPQoLGzZrLwcsHwNVeXd4DHwfBhlidyxTeFdTTXd3Z1J6GV VXLnd4XHZIBE13dytbbAc

here more photos
https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1658899886190874629?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1658899886190874629%7Ctwgr% 5E47db4b94f1c590f920dffb10a5dbf7c14c063b7d%7Ctwcon %5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftech.wp.pl%2Frosyjski-pancerny-frankenstein-armata-z-czasow-stalina-z-czolgiem-t-546899280065493920a

[blazejos]

I love the icon though please keep it in the files!

https://i.imgur.com/Ikp06ky.png

Jordan Gepards will go to Ukraine too https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/ukraines_armed_forces_to_receive_gepard_spaag_from _jordan_through_the_us_delivery_deadlines_and_cost _have_been_announced-6886.html

[MarkSheppard]

It's official; directed energy weapons are here to stay.

https://twitter.com/JulianRoepcke/status/1678371280616329216/photo/1

Ukraine has received the Blighter AUDS Anti-UAV Defence System (being incorrectly reported as a Laser weapon system -- probably because it doesn't look like anything seen before)

https://www.blighter.com/products/auds-anti-uav-defence-system/

Which basically zaps UAVs with microwave jamming.

EDIT: The reason people got confused is that apparently AUDS is currently used with the PHEL Laser prototype under test -- AUDS in that application provides support to the PHEL laser unit by locating, tracking and (if necessary) jamming hostile UAVs -- presumably to keep PHEL from being targeted by enemy UAVs in swarm attacks?

[Suhiir]

I suspect we'll see SEAD suicide drones come out in the next couple weeks/months.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well, I'm putting this here so I can track it easier as it seems the Thread it's in seems to have been "hijacked" to a degree.

Increment 1 testing was completed just a short time ago and the first unit equipped was chosen to complete that and the OP-EVAL which was successful.

We will see these soon. The ref. is seriously "downplaying" M-SHORAD Increment 2 and we won't see it even if approved as FY 2024 which starts in 2 weeks for funding just still only for R&D.
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12397
(Updated on 1 June 2023.)

We already have a decades long technology of being able to both jam radars and communications signals simply called "jamming".

We use them on in the air, sea and land. With a little research you will find that Russia has already started to equip their tanks with such systems they won't require a lot of power and they'll be compact. It'll only need to create a "bubble" around the tank similar to what APS does. With oscillators' that can scan the frequency band in a matter of milliseconds it'll do the nicely. Generally, the process is referred to as heterodyning.

Anyway, I need some sleep as work calls later today. My relief on Saturdays has informed me we "knock out" 7.5+ miles of walking in just over 6 hrs. (We just use our units to get from point A to B unlike the majority of others.) in our secure area.

No wonder I feel so "chipper". :D

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Found this as well

https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/R46463.html

[DRG]

I've added MLRS to the thread title

There are "issues" am hoping to resolve

MLRS in the game now pretty much behaves like WW2 rocket arty. It's an area weapon but it has evolved and the game is stuck in the past. I'm not saying it's way out of line for a lot of unguided MLRS systems but it is for something like HIMARs

I have read various articles about Himars accuracy and the game cannot come close with it as O/M rocket artillery unit class as the accuracy of the GPS rounds is commonly stated to be in the 1-3 meter range from the intended POI and that is the LR Himars and the long-range Missile has a 300 KM range.

In game terms, it should be able to hit a target that is stationary in a single hex........one missile, one target, one hit. It should NOT be doing what it does in the game now which is spread the POI over half a Km or more

But also Himars is not a weapon designed to be used on front-line targets although in a pinch it could. These are deep-strike weapons intended for targets far behind the lines. The ones Ukraine has "only" have an 80km range and what makes them effective is it is hard to hit back at a Himars once it has fired because it can move almost immediately

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-62512681

"Himars is very accurate when it is used against fixed targets when you have the exact co-ordinates,"

"But it is not so effective against moving targets such as troops, so it cannot push back an advance."

....and that is the focus of the game so it's possible that these would be best used in the game for counter-battery or with ROF drastically reduced from what it is now and used like NLOS weapons but still..... these things shine when taking out critical targets far outside the area of the front line covered by even the largest map

.......so.....open to comments..

I have built test units that operate as NLOS but the problem with NLOS targeting is it needs a target and you have to pick what is given, you cannot target a bridge and you can target things HIMARS was not intended to target like an individual tank ( it does a SPECTACULAR job doing that though..... but that isn't what it is supposed to be used for..........they also shine as counter battery........ mostly "BATTERY DESTROYED" messages when they do CB but at 100 grand a pop there are cheaper ways )

( they are used on....... )targets such as command posts and ammunition depots.........(and) has also been used to target bridges



Further....... I just "discovered" that HIMARS system has eleven different missiles it can fire so I need to dig into what the capability is for each

[Suhiir]

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12397
(Updated on 1 June 2023.) [/B]
Looks amazingly similar to the LAV-AD (1996-2004).

[Suhiir]

There are "issues" am hoping to resolve
Maybe two versions of the HIMARS?
(YES I know many OOBs don't have open slots.)
One "as is" for counteer-battery/area targets and a NLOS veersion?

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

My thought is you should still be able to assign HIMERS (Or similar.) targets as normal. Bridges and Buildings should hit those targets more accurately. FCS will take an inputted GPS Coordinates and drop the missiles where you want them to go regardless of source like HQ/Observer etc. etc. all you need is an electronic map or paper as some might still use map along with some means of comms.

And yes, HIMARS and all the artillery using STRIX, EXCALIBUR, BONUS and others will by extension be much more accurate.

What's killing these targets is the CEP is SO SMALL there really is no such thing as a near miss anymore UNLESS you fire off a defective round or have an FCS malfunction.

Those odds would be extremely low.

Modern (Over the last 30+ years until the last ten years when we first start to see these CEP <5m systems.) artillery FCS's compensate for all of the below.
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/AD1043284.pdf

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

On a separate issue, this what I tried to convey concerning the German PATRIOT System as being mobile as the picture shows where Germany is sending more of those systems to the Ukraine.

Europe was smart enough to figure out that since so many of their countries are so small a more mobile PATRIOT (NASAMS, IRIS-T, IRON DOME etc. ) system was needed to shoot and scoot with a reload capability of less than 15 minutes.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_november_2023_global_security_army_in dustry/germany_strengthens_ukraine_s_air_defense_with_add itional_patriot_missile_system.html

PATRIOT with a truck and trailer is much less maneuverable and much more time consuming in set up and reloading even though the PATRIOT can be fired while trailer mounted.
https://newatlas.com/military/ukraine-patriot-missiles-game-changer/

WHAT's Coming...
https://www.army.mil/article/154848/multi_mission_launcher_delivery_ceremony

The German MAN 8x8 (And the others named above.) doesn't have those limitations to include they're much faster as well.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Suhiir]

Given that Patriot is a two-part (missile and radar) system mobility for the launcher isn't near as important as for the radar.
BUT since WinSPMBT doesn't have separate radars ...

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

That of course has always been the case.

But launchers are also prime targets, and the AI knows this well that's why mobile units are important in the game as in the RL.

I've suffered both air and artillery attacks on my "stationary" SAM sites.

Fortunately, I defend in layers and ensure I have some artillery on hand to minimize my losses.

AI Russia has consistently in the last 3-4 Campaigns come at me with aircraft/helos or both.

So, I find myself reacting to the threat. It's happening so much during those campaigns I've spent assets to include them in my core units now.

But I also maintain the AI at near peer or at peer "financially" if you will to see what it buys and how it's used in battle.

It "seems" to keep things fresh, challenging and unpredictable.

Though seems at times to have a "thing" for mobile ammo supply units.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Suhiir]

For my part whenever possible I move SAMs the turn after they fire (via transports if needed) and ALWAYS leave at least one off-map artillery battery (when available) with no orders because that increases the chance they'll do counter-battery.

[DRG]

Re: HIMARS rockets
https://www.dote.osd.mil/Portals/97/pub/reports/FY2014/army/2014gmlrs.pdf?ver=2019-08-22-110519-813#:~:text=The%20PQT%20demonstrated%20the%20GMLRS ,miss%20distance%20of%202.1%20meters).

The 200-pound GMLRS-AW high-explosive warhead contains
approximately 160,000 preformed tungsten fragments. This
warhead change eliminates the unexploded ordnance found in
the GMLRS Dual-Purpose Improved Conventional Munitions
rockets.

The PQT demonstrated the GMLRS-AW rocket is reliable
(17 successes in 17 flights) and accurate (median miss
distance of 2.1 meters). Reliability and accuracy were further
demonstrated in the June 2014 DT/OT (15 successes in
15 flights, and median miss distance of 2.7 meters). There
is no system requirement for accuracy. The contractor
specification is less than 15 meters Circular Error Probable

[MarkSheppard]

https://kyivindependent.com/denmark-to-donate-all-its-artillery-to-ukraine-says-pm/

Denmark has decided to deliver all the artillery rounds from its stockpiles to Ukraine, Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen told the Ukrainian Lunch at the Munich Security Conference on Feb. 17.

Artillery shells are among the most crucial military supplies for Ukraine, as they are used daily in high numbers on the Ukrainian battlefields.

“If you ask Ukrainians, they are asking us for ammunition now, artillery now. From the Danish side, we decided to donate our entire artillery,” Frederiksen said.

There's a lot of translation wariness. Is it just shells or is it also the artillery pieces as well?

[Aeraaa]

Well, if they give all their ammunition stocks to Ukraine, they might as well give all of their tubes.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Denmarks real contribution in hardware will be the Caesar 8x8 which has the FCS of the newer Caesar 6x6 NG. Both will feature new redesigned armored cabs with the 8x8 having much better mobility AND carry more onboard ammo (Off the top I believe that to be 46 to 48 Rds. to include BONUS.)

Denmark had 8 or 10 and as I’ve already posted, France is fulfilling the order of a total of 18 units Denmark wanted and ship them to the Ukraine when completed.

With the improvements on the Caesar NG, as of last reporting Denmark will probably buy them as they are “cheaper” and can buy a few more of that version.

Denmark is/was the ONLY operator of the 8x8 version prior to the donation to the Ukraine.

The NG will also be more mobile than the original Caesar from the lessons learned from all the other user countries.

Since I’m at it, the UK testing of the Archer is going very well to include the very recent live fire tests that were conducted. My impression is they are definitely “fast tracking” it. With that in mind I wouldn’t be surprised if it doesn’t reach FOC by JUL or early Fall. We’ll see. ;)

Since I’m on the UK, AJAX just recently completed Winter Ops testing in SWEDEN. However, as already posted from MOD and Parliament sources; there are no changes to IOC and FOC status of which both are after 2025.

At least for UK RL this bodes well for the Army overall thus far.

And since we’re on SWEDEN welcome to NATO! :party: :clap: :cheers:

For the “Other Guy” all he gets will be a mean :viking: !

Back to vacation mode since we saw them Sunday they’re undefeated (They lost the opener on Saturday.) and hope they keep it up for our last game later today. I’m happy to have had such an influence on the team!?! :D :rolleyes: :cool:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I should've asked all the questions from the previous page.

First Denmark has ONLY USA imported HIMARS and the afore mentioned CAESAR 8x8 with 19 UNITS.

This will include their entire stock of ammo of unknown quantity.

Also, regarding further ammo resupply the Czech Republic has a ready stock of 800,000 rounds of artillery shells made up of 500,000 155mm and 300,000 122mm. All they need is for someone to pay for it and then they can have them all delivered within a few weeks.
https://www.businessinsider.com/denmark-to-send-all-artillery-ukraine-pm-russia-war-2024-2
https://www.defensemagazine.com/article/denmark-pledges-full-artilleryssupport-to-ukraine-prime-minister-announces

Germany as part of its most recent arms package will send 14,000 155mm rounds and 4 WINSENT 1 MCV's etc.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_february_2024_global_security_army_in dustry/germany_offers_new_large_package_of_various_weapon s_to_ukraine.html

Netherlands has approved 100 million Euros for several 100,000's worth of artillery shells.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_february_2024_global_security_army_in dustry/netherlands_joins_czech_project_to_purchase_artill ery_munitions_for_ukraine.html

And they're NOT done; it's not the DANA or DANA 2 it is a new system of SPA called the DITA. It has a 2-man crew with a fully automated turret/ROF 5 Rds. PM/Onboard 155mm Ammo 40 Rds./TATRA 8x8 w/ Tatra T3C-928-90 engine with 300 kW output, giving it a maximum speed of 90 km/h on roads and 25 km/h off-road, with a range of 600 kilometers. /Armored Cab and Turret etc. etc.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_february_2024_global_security_army_in dustry/netherlands_acquires_czech_dita_self-propelled_howitzer_for_ukraine.html

Seems like we need a few more Female Prime Ministers and maybe a President here as they've been more aggressive in doing what's necessary to support the Ukraine to avoid a wider war which Germany and a couple of others think will happen by 2025/or 2026.

I hope they're wrong. I'm more about the old 1942 song written in response to the attack on Pearl Harbor; "Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition" to include Tanks/Tubes and everything else.

Concerning my Mets ball club, well they stayed undefeated while there and today when we left to head home yesterday morning. I guess we just have this "Aura" around us from today on we just wish them luck until the first "Subway Series" in the regular season, you see CINCLANTHOME is a true Yankee Fan!?! :p :down: :angel

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[MarkSheppard]

Hope nobody did any serious thought as to a icon/OOB slot for ERCA in the US OBAT.

https://www.defensenews.com/land/2024/03/11/us-army-scraps-extended-range-cannon-artillery-prototype-effort/

The U.S. Army is changing its approach to acquiring a long-range artillery capability and scrapping its 58-caliber Extended Range Cannon Artillery prototyping effort, according to the service’s acquisition chief.

“We concluded the prototyping activity last fall,” Doug Bush told reporters at a March 8 briefing on the fiscal 2025 budget request. “Unfortunately, [it was] not successful enough to go straight into production.”

The new plan — following an “exhaustive” tactical fires study meant to revalidate elements of the extended-range cannon requirement led by Army Futures Command — is to evaluate existing options from industry this summer “to get a sense of the maturity of those systems.”

Of the 24 new Army systems slated to make it into the hands of soldiers by the end of 2023, only the Extended Range Cannon Artillery program missed that goal. The ERCA system uses a service-developed, 58-caliber gun tube mounted on the chassis of a BAE Systems-made Paladin Integrated Management howitzer.

The Army was building 20 prototypes of the ERCA system: two for destructive testing and the remaining 18 for a battalion.

The operational evaluation of ERCA revealed “engineering challenges,” Bush said a year ago. Observations in early testing of prototypes showed excessive wear on the gun tube after firing a relatively low number of rounds.

Army Futures Command leader Gen. James Rainey told Defense News last summer the service was working on a new conventional fires strategy expected by the end of the calendar year. The strategy would determine both capability and capacity of what exists and what the Army may need, Rainey said.

The strategy considered new technology to enhance conventional fires on the battlefield, such as advances in propellant that make it possible for midrange cannons to shoot as far as longer-range systems.

Depending on the artillery strategy’s conclusions, there are a variety of options the service could consider in order to fulfill the Army’s requirement for an extended-range cannon, Bush said.

The Army was able to conduct a variety of successful tests with ERCA prototypes, including hitting a target on the nose 70 kilometers (43 miles) away at Yuma Proving Ground, Arizona, in December 2020 using an Excalibur extended-range guided artillery shell.

The problems with the cannon were mostly related to the length of the gun tube and its ability to withstand a large number of projectiles without excessive wear to the gun tube.

The Army is racing to extend artillery ranges on the battlefield to take away advantages of high-end adversaries like Russia and China. The ERCA weapon was intended to be able to fire at and destroy targets from a position out of the range of enemy systems.

That requirement remains, Bush stressed last week.

The hope now is to find systems that currently exist and are capable. The Army would then choose one for production if it proves promising, Bush said.

“There [are] things people say, and then we need to actually do testing to make sure it’s true,” he explained.

“It’s a shift from developing something new to working with what is available both domestically and internationally to get the range,” he added, “because the fires study validated the range and volume are still needed, so we want to find a different way to get there.”

The Army is asking for $55 million in its FY25 budget to pursue the new effort to find an extended-range cannon capability.

The service also plans to continue developing new munitions it was already working on as part of the ERCA program, Bush noted.

[DRG]

Hope nobody did any serious thought as to a icon/OOB slot for ERCA in the US OBAT.

Nope..........

[MarkSheppard]

US Army just deployed their new TYPHON system to the Philippines.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2024/04/u-s-army-deploys-new-missile-launcher-to-the-philippines/

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/12/us-army-accepts-delivery-of-first-prototype-mrc-battery/

It's basically a containerized VLS system on trailers -- can fire either SM-6 Standard or Tomahawk Land Attack Missile.

Yes; that's not a typo; they basically took a USN shipboard SAM and made it into a land based SAM.

Currently, the US has two batteries -- one in the philippines now and one working up in CONUS.

I'm not sure whether to add it to the database because we don't know if the Army is going to double down, and get 8 batteries and keep it for the next 35 years or kill it in the next five years.

[DRG]

In many ways this is a weapon system that is beyond the scope of the game........at best borderline

[whdonnelly]

Not sure if this is the right place to put this, but soon we might have some data points on the effectiveness.

https://www.thedefensepost.com/2024/04/24/us-forces-middle-east/

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

It's good to see we can get it right, M-SHORAD is no more; the system is now officially called the Sgt. Stout as of Saturday 15 June 2024.

From Ref. 2
"The first two SGT STOUT battalions are in Germany and at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, and the Army recently fielded its third battalion at Fort Cavazos, Texas, in February. In April of 2024, six SGT STOUT vehicles and more than 40 Soldiers provided effective short-range air defense during live-fire exercises as part of DEFENDER 24's Saber Strike exercise in Poland, demonstrating the ability to protect Soldiers like its namesake."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/army-renames-air-defense-system-after-medal-of-honor-recipient/ar-BB1oiBd3?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=bd062bdaaac74628add820cf85886340&ei=48
https://www.army.mil/article/277291/army_names_the_m_shorad_after_vietnam_war_medal_of _honor_recipient
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12397/11
(I used this source as a primary reference dealing with TRICARE For Life.)

I had posted on this system early but quite frankly haven't tracked it for a while. I only knew the Army was fast tracking the system since it's using both an existing platform and weapons. What's new is the Radar and FCS.

As supported by Ref. 3
". In April 2021, the 5th Battalion, 4th Air Defense Artillery Regiment received the first four of its M-SHORAD systems, becoming fully equipped by late 2022."

If we go with the above and Ref. 2 using the word "fielded" that mean START JAN 2023.

But others are saying 2025 for full fielding. The refs. are in line that the only system out there is the Sgt. Stout increment 1 systems of which Ref. 3 goes into detail on that and more.

I think the safe bet here is to "split the difference" and use START JAN 2024.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

We have the Taiwanese CM-32 however it seems like we missed both the CM-33 and CM-34. along the way.

Not so much worried about the CM-33 but, the CM-34 though sharing the same chassis as its predecessors; comes in at 2 tons heavier part of that is due to the turret but the rest has to be I suspect due to some kind of applique armor upgrade as well.

They are in service as APC/IFV and 120mm mortar carrier in regard to the CM-34.

Track for 120mm/82mm mortar carrier for the CM-32 and likewise in regard the CM-34 also with the 81mm mortar carrier.

Starting with the CM-32 tests and a PROTOTYPE(s) were built for a "Fire Support" version with both a 105mm and 120mm.

This did not materialize for the CM-32. For the CM-34 PROTOTYPE testing should've been completed by the end of last year or very early this year.
https://www.janes.com/osint-insights/defence-news/taiwan-readies-cm-34-ifv-for-delivery
"The vehicle is derived from the common 6.35 m long, 2.7 m wide, and 2.2 m high welded steel hull also used by the in-service CM-32 and CM-33 Cloud Leopard armoured personnel carriers (APCs), although the CM-34 has a combat weight of 24 tonnes as opposed to the 22 tonnes of the earlier variants."

What perplexes me is why there are no AT versions.

They have the following NOW for their helos they wouldn't to modify them much also they've been operating TOW for decades.
TAIPERS as noted is in the field and placing TOW in the process.
"Comprising four major sub-sections (seeker, propulsion, control mechanism, and battery) and the optical fibre cable at the rear, the missile has a smokeless solid-propellant rocket motor, which gives it a cruise speed of about 200 m/s and a maximum strike range of 8 km. Hanwha has said the missile can penetrate up to 1,000 mm of rolled homogeneous armour (RHA).

The DAPA spokesperson said the missile will arm the Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) Light Armed Helicopter (LAH) and MUH-1 Marineon helicopters of the Republic of Korea Marine Corps (RoKMC) from 2024."
https://www.janes.com/osint-insights/defence-news/south-korea-to-mass-produce-taipers-anti-tank-missiles

Yeah, just realized I got this in the wrong thread @^!-****! :doh:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Methinks unit 39 should be the CM-34 with some further adjustments. We go with the data we have at the time and as usual things change. The first version of this went in 2 decades ago

Both need to be reworked and additional vehicles added.....on the list

[MarkSheppard]

Lithuania is starting the groundwork to withdraw from the cluster munition pact.

A draft resolution was put forth by the Lithuanian Ministry of Defense; if it's ratified by the President and Parliament, Lithuania will withdraw from the Convention and the country will no longer be prohibited to procure, stockpile and use cluster munitions.

[MarkSheppard]

In many ways this [Typhon] is a weapon system that is beyond the scope of the game........at best borderline

Revisiting this in light of the recent news that the Army will now deploy Typhon to Europe as well.

https://breakingdefense.com/2024/07/germany-gives-us-greenlight-to-deploy-new-longer-range-weapons-inside-its-borders/

WASHINGTON — Come 2026, the US Army can begin deploying some of its new, longer-range munitions to Germany under a new agreement the two nations inked ahead of the NATO summit.

“The United States will begin episodic deployments of the long-range fires capabilities of its Multi-Domain Task Force [MDTF] in Germany in 2026, as part of planning for enduring stationing of these capabilities in the future,” the White House announced in a statement today.

“When fully developed, these conventional long-range fires units will include SM-6, Tomahawk, and developmental hypersonic weapons, which have significantly longer range than current land-based fires in Europe,” it added.

While I agree with you that two (Tomahawk and future Hypersonic Weapon) of Typhon's missiles are beyond the scope of SPMBT; the third -- the SM-6 Standard Missile -- isn't.

The SM-6 is approximately 3,300 lb (1,500 kg) -- it's a very big, very long ranged missile -- comparable in size to Russian (OBAT11) Unit 294 - S-300PS which has the 5V55K S-300K weapon -- that specific Russian SAM is 3,260 lb (1,480 kg).

Additionally, SM-6 is the first major ARH SAM the US has (other than Patriot PAC-3 which is optimized more for ABM engagements) -- it has an enlarged, bigger AIM-120D seeker head; a big difference over classic PATRIOT.

US heavy SAMs have gone through three different generations of guidance:

Semi-Active Radar Homing (SARH) (Nike Ajax/Hercules) -- Radar on ground illuminates target, and missile homes in on reflected energy.

Track Via Missile (TVM) (PATRIOT PAC-1 & PAC-2) - Radar on ground illuminates target, and missile homes in on reflected energy; but can also transmit a digital "picture" of what it's seeing back to the ground unit, enabling it to deal with heavy clutter/jamming/ECM.

Active Radar Homing (ARH) (SM-6 / PATRIOT PAC-3 / S-400) -- In addition to the above modes; there's an active seeker in the missile, so the missile can autonomously home; as well as get a better picture from being much closer to the target than the launcher radar.

[MarkSheppard]

Lithuania is starting the groundwork to withdraw from the cluster munition pact.

A draft resolution was put forth by the Lithuanian Ministry of Defense; if it's ratified by the President and Parliament, Lithuania will withdraw from the Convention and the country will no longer be prohibited to procure, stockpile and use cluster munitions.

https://www.delfi.lt/ru/news/politics/litva-vyhodit-iz-konvencii-o-zaprete-kassetnyh-boepripasov-120037152

Google translated

Lithuania withdraws from convention banning cluster munitions

On Thursday, the Seimas decided to denounce the Convention on Cluster Munitions, which bans their use. After Lithuania's withdrawal from this international agreement, there are no longer any restrictions on the purchase, stockpiling, and, in the event of war, use of cluster munitions. The withdrawal from the convention was supported by 103 members of the Seimas, one deputy voted against, and four abstained.

One of the initiators of the issue, Minister of Defence Laurynas Kaščiūnas , claims that the change in the geopolitical situation prompted the withdrawal from the convention.

"Such conventions are significant when all countries adhere to them. In this case, the problem is that the Russian Federation, which is carrying out aggression against Ukraine and has imperialist ambitions, does not follow these rules," L. Kaščiūnas said at a session of the Seimas. "When we ratified this convention and joined it, it was a different era. Now everything is much more complicated. Therefore, it would be very wrong if the state, preparing for its defense, immediately said what capacities it will not use for its defense," the Minister of Defense noted.

L. Kaščiūnas also assured that modern cluster munitions are much safer, and the consequences they cause can be controlled. Discussions about Lithuania's withdrawal from the Oslo Convention banning the use of cluster munitions began last summer, when then-Defense Minister Arvydas Anušauskas expressed such an expectation. The Defense Ministry called for a reassessment of the provisions of this international document for reasons of national security. Lithuania ratified the Convention on Cluster Munitions in 2010.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Still cleaning!

USA: I completely forgot the next as the date of the article will clearly show. That being said it has happened and we got them. I speak of the French BONUS rounds. Concerning Ref. 1 & 2 we purchased additional BONUS rounds on Mar 03, 2020.
https://www.edrmagazine.eu/u-s-army-purchases-additional-155mm-bonus-munitions-from-bae-systems
https://www.baesystems.com/en/product/155-bonus
(Good review of capabilities an "click" on News to confirm above and additional orders.

So, we have the above date for what I believe to be the second order.

I found a couple of sources to show the USA and by extension the USMC (I had posted an article of Marines in an exercise I believe in Africa with the French firing the BONUS from our 155mm about the time of the above date.) had these rounds in 2000. I've thrown the BS Flag in the air when I saw that date. That was the year that France and Sweden put them in service. In 2008 the French used them in combat for the first time.

I can't find an initial START for them but, based on the above information I feel comfortable in recommending A START for BOTH the USA and USMC of UPDATED NOW TO JAN 2019. See next.

Found the following during my UK BONUS informational search. This dated 09 OCT 2018.
https://www.baesystems.com/en/article/us-army-to-procure-bae-systems-155mm-bonus-precision-guided-munitions

And like the tanks the CORPS had, they get their ammo from the Army as well; they "own" the arsenals (Picatinny, N.J. etc.) and are responsible for the procurement of the same from private industry.

UK: Are operationally now using what is considered probably still the best SPA out there ("Shoot and Scoot" 30s or slightly less. ). The British Army has been training on these for quite some time so they're ready to use them now.
UK/ADD/ARCHER/COPY/SWEDEN/BW L52 ARCHER/UNIT 416/START JUN 2024/END DEC 2030/AMMO/BONUS ALSO PROCURED. //
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/british-army-now-takes-delivery-of-all-14-archer-155mm-wheeled-howitzers#google_vignette

As a side note SWEDEN has purchased the latest version of ARCHER 8x8.
https://www.edrmagazine.eu/additional-archer-artillery-battalion-for-sweden
(This will require further research, seem to remember posting a different article from Military-Today on it-miss that site from the Ukraine.)

MBT will have to wait it's late I'm tired and go back to work later this afternoon.

So Good Whatever!! :D

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

The Archer is already in the Brit OOB. albeit 2 months early. both as an on and off map unit

[MarkSheppard]

Some data on the Belgian M109A2/M109A3 upgrade program into the M109A4BE standard:

https://x.com/ChungTzuW/status/1819854774717587476/photo/3

Includes a decent angled away top photo from the rear.

https://x.com/ChungTzuW/status/1819854774717587476/photo/2

Data on the Semi Automatic Loader (SAL) they put into the M109A4BE modernization.

What happened was that as soon as the modernization of all 64 x M109A4BE was completed in 2015; they were immediately put up for sale by the (then) Defense Minister André Flahaut.

The private company that bought them in 2015 then turned around and sold them in 2022 to the UK who further rehabbed them and sent them to Ukraine.

https://armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2023/former-belgian-army-m109a4be-155-howitzers-purchased-by-uk-are-now-deployed-in-ukraine

[Masters]

Russia's missing Buk-M1-2, Buk-M2, Buk-M3, S-350 Vityaz', S-500 Prometheus, Tornado-G (BM-21 Grad's successor with newly developed ammo, increased range up to 40 km, faster firing capability with better precision and armor pen).

[blazejos]

Proposition to use OOB Red for store Soviet Union/Russian weapons of less importance in similar way like in SPWW2 store rare German equipment in Blue OOB that may free many necessary slots in soviet/Russia OOB

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Been tracking on this for a handful++ months now. Now we have the first operational model built. The Gepard 1.5 which was specifically designed for the Ukraine's on-going war in a target rich environment where it WILL excel more than the already very highly successful Gepard has been serving.

Skyranger 35 has been around for many years now and I believe the Ukraine has already been using a purpose-built truck mounted version I believe I posted. Skyranger is in here as well from several years ago.

It is expected that the Ukraine will get these in 2025 (Mid-maybe.) after all testing has been completed which it is about to start.

Keep in mind the original use (And current still as improved since.) was for static point defense for airfields, bases and important national asset defense. Generally specking they would be pedestal mounted.

I point this out because the ammo load cited in the article is the same as the static system.

Obviously, a BIG difference between that and a LEOPARD 1A5 tank that carried 55 105mm rounds it should be able to carry 750 -1000 35mm rounds but, we'll see as the time comes closer or sooner.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/leopard-1a5-with-skyranger-35-ukraine-s-new-anti-aircraft-powerhouse/ar-AA1qZGZ5?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=3dad57dfc09c4ca4a21cfa3c6b88508d&ei=10

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Very much WIP
https://i.imgur.com/2QOFhar.png

Skyranger system turret on a 1a5 and Boxer hull

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I went back into my files, so this next was from June this year and quite frankly don't remember if I posted it or not. But I was right in my assertion that the Ukraine did receive the 6X6 MAN truck version with the Skyranger 35. I believe they got them around the new year and a handful more since. (They did get them.)

Also, if this article is correct for the LEOPARD 2 (And not likely to be fielded due to a shortage of A4 tanks.) version carries 228 in the revolver which closely aligns with my last post which also does a better job of describing the AHEAD round. I still believe they should have a reload capability which I'll look into.

The turret allows for the optional installation of two Mistral or Stinger missiles. Ref. 2

Germany will field their BOXER with either latest Minstrel or modified Mells for the Skyranger 30/35 systems.

And finally with that ammo can you image what it'll do to light armor or especially dismounted troops?
"The Skyranger gun system is also effective against ground targets and can be used as a fire support weapon. It uses Frangible Amour-Piercing Discarding Sabot (FAPDS) rounds against ground targets. Range of effective fire is about 5 000 meters."
https://militaryleak.com/2020/08/15/oerlikon-skyranger-35-mobile-air-defence-system/#:~:text=The%20Skyranger%20is%20optimized%20to%20f ire%20the%20company%E2%80%99s,series%20of%20twin%2 035%20mm%20towed%20anti-aircraft%20guns.

6x6 MAN truck version pictured at the bottom of the ref. 1
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/rheinmetall-from-germany-unveils-leopard-2-skyranger-to-replace-old-gepard-air-defense-system-in-ukraine
https://itc.ua/en/news/rheinmetall-presents-skyranger-35-air-defense-systems-on-leopard-2-chassis-ukraine-will-receive-them-on-a-different-tank-platform/

Why wait... from the following 2 refs. as follows:
"Ready to fire ammunition: 252x30mm, 1,000x7.62mm"
https://www.rheinmetall.com/Rheinmetall%20Group/brochure-download/Air-Defence/D994e0222-Oerlikon-Skyranger-30.pdf

And...
"Ready to fire ammunition: 252 rounds"
https://www.rheinmetall.com/Rheinmetall%20Group/brochure-download/Air-Defence/D742e0524-Oerlikon-Skyranger-35.pdf

Ready to fire is code for if we live through firing our initial loadout of ammo you can bet, we have plenty more. That even goes for Torpedoes! ;)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

https://i.imgur.com/3baJufc.png

WIP

There are also fixed-ground versions of this system

https://root-nation.com/wp-content/webp-express/webp-images/doc-root/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/rheinmetall-skynex-0.jpg.webp

And yes...... it would be nasty against ground targets. A Bradley on Steroids

[DRG]

And a Gepard II---------------WIP

https://i.imgur.com/0ku0wPD.png

[DRG]

Ready to fire is code for if we live through firing our initial loadout of ammo you can bet, we have plenty more. That even goes for Torpedoes! ;)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

At the rate of fire for this gun a one second burst would be 16 rounds so 250 rounds would last 16 bursts

There could easily be a burst fire round limiter that could be adjusted to only fire a preselected number with every press of the trigger which would be the way to go with something like that........ the MP5 SMG had that capability with a 3 shot bursts setting 40 years ago and it's a simple mechanical device

I fired one once. With the three shot burst set you don't miss

[DRG]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb5_F4_Eod8

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

What I meant was like a BRADLEY the 25mm duel fed gun has HE I believe Jake said on the left and DU on the right the gun will fire both at the same time, once ammo is expended the crew can reload again.

Also this is very important in fixing detection etc. ranges whether operating independently or tied in they all have Air-Ground AESA Radar. Think F-22, F-35 F-15 last model and F-15EX. Plus, some foreign ones as well. AESA is an over the horizon detection and targeting component more so of course in a jet.

As you can see from the land-based version there might be some limitation in reloading unless it's done automatically. That system is tied into the "SkyMaster" system. As I already had it, now below.

The vehicle mounted one's work both autonomously and can be tied (Or not. ) into "SkyMaster" if augmenting the defense of an airfield etc. etc.

Bottom line is the mobile units must be able to carry more ammo as has been suggested in couple of those articles.

Just makes sense like a BRADLEY etc.
https://www.twz.com/news-features/old-leopard-tanks-can-be-reborn-as-air-defense-systems-with-skyranger-35-turret
https://www.rheinmetall.com/en/products/air-defence/air-defence-systems/networked-air-defence-skynex

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Seemed like an 8-round burst in the video with 152 tungsten steel balls per shell.
https://www.rheinmetall.com/Rheinmetall%20Group/brochure-download/Weapon-Ammmunition/D108e0721-Ahead-KETF-35x228-PMD062-RWMS.pdf

Applied against infantry, soft and light armor it would be almost OK distantly similar to what the what the SHERIDAN Canister round did to the Viet Cong and as most vividly described in the book "BLACK HORSE RIDERS" by Philip Keith. A true story of a rescue mission to help an Infantry Company that "stumbled" on a North Vietnamese stronghold that outnumbered them by 6:1.

The canister round carried each 10,000-dart like flechettes it was used to clear a "road" through heavy underbrush and elephant grass etc. and of course as an anti-personal weapon. Have seen it in other books about Vietnam but this a single battle focused book that described the cannister shot as literally picking up soldiers off the ground and pinning (Dead) against the trees in some instances. The rest I leave to your imagination.

Also, as a side note the author provided information concerning both the SHERIDAN and M113 ACAV on the latter he mentions based on the experiences of the ARVN from 1962 on (They made modifications on them as well and he noted them.) so that when the USA modified theirs that by 1965 they all had been modified with "Belly Armor", .50 Cal with shielded turret (I remember this in game.) but also it carried 2 M-60s mounted internally with shields in the left and right rear of the unit (I don't remember this HOWEVER it's been a longtime since I played USA in that time period.)

Anyway, I'm done for tonight and back at it tomorrow.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Seemed like an 8-round burst in the video with 152 tungsten steel balls per shell.


Well.... my test unit had a total ammo load of 32 so I would say that's dead on 8 rounds

Also. for those interested, I have test Kamakaze drone built using existing game code and weapons that is capable of taking out a hovering Helo or a ground unit or acting like a mobile IED which was not the original focus of my testing at all but I will take that as a bonus

[MarkSheppard]

https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1853800884364296521

Taiwan has received it's first batch of M142 HIMARS launchers + associated GMLRS rockets; along with it's troops finishing training in the US on the system.

=======================

https://x.com/ELMObrokenWings/status/1853860927608701020

Swiss Federal Office for Defence Procurement armasuisse has concluded its evaluation process for a new artillery system, selecting the AGM Artillery Gun Module on Piranha IV from KNDS Deutschland. This decision marks a significant step towards modernising the Swiss Armed Forces

=======

https://armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/switzerland-selects-agm-artillery-module-on-piranha-iv-to-replace-m109-howitzers

Switzerland Selects AGM Artillery Module on Piranha IV to Replace M109 Howitzers.

Defense News Army 2024

On November 5, 2024, Switzerland took a decisive step toward modernizing its artillery capabilities by selecting a new system. Armasuisse, the Federal Office for Defence Procurement, concluded its evaluation and now recommends acquiring the AGM (Artillery Gun Module) mounted on the Piranha IV vehicle from Germany’s KNDS. This funding request will be presented to Parliament as part of the 2025 Army Message to initiate the replacement process.

The AGM, integrated with the Piranha Heavy Mission Carrier (HMC), represents a significant advancement in modern artillery by combining mobility and firepower. Developed jointly by KNDS Deutschland and General Dynamics European Land Systems (GDELS), this system is defined by its fully automated, crewless 155mm (caliber 52) artillery piece mounted on the Piranha HMC. Weighing 40 tons and boasting a turning radius of less than 18 meters thanks to its four-axle steering, the system provides exceptional tactical mobility. The Piranha HMC's 10x10 multi-link chassis platform allows it to fire on the move without deploying stabilizing supports—an uncommon capability among wheeled self-propelled artillery systems. The vehicle is operable by a two-person crew, with an option to add a third member or additional storage.

The AGM module offers advanced capabilities, including 360º firing, "Shoot & Scoot" functionality, and MRSI (Multiple Rounds Simultaneous Impact), enabling simultaneous strikes on multiple targets. With its ability for both direct and indirect fire and its capacity to engage moving targets on land and sea, the AGM on Piranha HMC is a versatile and resilient solution. Its command, navigation, and fire control systems operate autonomously, reducing crew workload through integrated robotic intelligence. The AGM module is also compatible with the 8x8 Boxer vehicle, enhancing NATO interoperability and facilitating cooperation among member forces.

Switzerland's artillery modernization project comes as the current self-propelled M109 howitzer, in service for over 50 years, nears the end of its operational life. Recognizing the need to maintain and enhance medium-range indirect fire capabilities with improved precision and mobility, the Swiss Army, led by Armasuisse, launched the "Artillery Platform and Equipment" (WPWM) project. This initiative, which began with a project contract in 2019, aims to identify a solution that meets the army’s needs through a wheeled vehicle suited for modern battlefield requirements.

This renewal project is extensive and multifaceted, encompassing not only the artillery platform replacement but also its integration with the Swiss Army’s communication, command, and fire control systems. It also includes training and simulation solutions and a complete logistics support framework to ensure system maintenance. An initial munitions procurement is also planned to guarantee full operational readiness upon deployment.

The candidate evaluation process began with a call for tenders from multiple international manufacturers. Based on Swiss military requirements, Armasuisse shortlisted two candidates in 2022: the Archer Mobile Howitzer from Sweden’s BAE Systems Bofors and the KNDS-proposed 155mm AGM artillery module, mounted on two possible platforms, Boxer and Piranha. This selection led to rigorous testing, including logistical, technical, and operational evaluations conducted in close cooperation with the industry and several army units, such as the Army Logistics Base, the Training Command, and the Operations Command.

From January 2023 to June 2024, both systems underwent in-depth testing, including logistical trials, technical assessments of the main weapon abroad, mobility tests on Swiss road networks and rough terrain, as well as exercises involving both professional soldiers and Swiss militia members. Live demonstrations and firing tests were conducted in collaboration with foreign military forces and other defense authorities.

Following this evaluation phase, the AGM system on KNDS’s Piranha IV emerged as the most advantageous offering, meeting Armasuisse’s tactical, technical, logistical, economic, and sustainability criteria. This selection marks a turning point for Swiss artillery equipment, providing a modernized indirect fire capability on a platform meeting the highest technological standards. In the coming months, the project team will focus on integrating the AGM's communication and command systems with the Piranha IV. Preparations for the 2025 Army Message funding proposal are also underway to ensure prompt financial support.

Switzerland’s M109 self-propelled howitzers, officially designated as "15.5 cm Self-Propelled Howitzer M109 KAWEST WE," have been acquired in several phases since 1968, forming the backbone of the Swiss motorized artillery. While they have been periodically upgraded, with combat improvements in 1995 and updates in 2012, this system—recently granted a usage extension in 2021—now shows signs of obsolescence. Acquiring the AGM artillery module on Piranha IV opens a new era for the Swiss Armed Forces, equipping them with a more mobile, precise artillery capability suited to modern conflict requirements.

The acquisition of the new AGM-mounted Piranha IV howitzers will bring several advantages to the Swiss Army. First, these systems offer increased mobility due to their 10x10 wheeled chassis, allowing rapid redeployment and greater operational flexibility compared to the older tracked M109 howitzers. This mobility is further enhanced by the ability to fire while on the move, reducing vulnerability to counter-battery fire.

Secondly, the fully automated 155mm caliber 52 AGM reduces crew workload and improves firing rates. The system's enhanced range and accuracy enable more effective medium-range strikes, meeting modern battlefield demands. Additionally, integration with Swiss communication and command systems ensures better coordination and optimized response times during operations.

Lastly, these new howitzers strengthen interoperability with NATO forces, supporting joint exercises and multinational missions. Overall, introducing the AGM on Piranha IV modernizes Swiss artillery, offering a combination of mobility, firepower, and technological compatibility to address contemporary challenges.

=============================================

There's a very good chance that this system could influence the US Army's M109 replacement program evaluations in FY25 -- the Piranha IV is basically a very close cousin to the Stryker family...

[DRG]

Wip

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17127&stc=1&d=1730859467

[DRG]

KNDS Plans to Deliver First RCH 155 to Ukraine in April 2025


https://mil.in.ua/en/news/knds-plans-to-deliver-first-rch-155-to-ukraine-in-april-2025/

[MarkSheppard]

Ukraine:

https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1866882823334056051?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Ukrainian forces modified a 9K33 Osa surface-to-air system to fire R-73 (AA-11 Archer) short-range air-to-air missiles.

The project, funded by
@BackAndAlive
, is the first time a charity has modernized a SAM system like this.

"The aviation missile has some advantages, because it works on the "fire it and forget it" principle, it does not need to be accompanied like a regular Osa missile. Immediately after firing the R-73, you can move from your position so as not to receive a retaliatory strike,"

Photos in this:

https://x.com/kvistp/status/1866913690311602410

[DRG]

I'm dealing with an overload of issues ATM....... I cannot find this weapon in the game. It may be under a different name or number designation.

If you know where it is let me know

The other question is does it do anything better "game-wise" than the existing SAM inventory......... like the SA-8b Gecko that is already in the already crowded OOB?

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well, you will find this interesting Ukraine has been doing some modifications which is fielded and unfortunately might complicate the issue.

Ukraine has had the R-73 apparently for a longtime it was designed to be an Air-to-Air missile.

The R-73 is the better missile with double the range of the Gecko. Just about across the board overall it's pretty much in all the categories head-to-head.

I've gotten myself sick and CINCLANTHOME just came out to get me.

What's interesting is what launcher they chose to use for the R-73. think GECKO.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/ukraine-modifies-soviet-made-sa-8-air-defense-systems-to-fire-r-73-missiles-following-delays-in-military-aid
https://defence-blog.com/ukraine-modifies-cold-war-era-air-defense-systems-to-fire-new-missiles/

I desperately need to get some sleep as I'm still a "working man" ;) and before I get a return visit!?! :sick: :eek:

Hope my answer on Rosamak turret helped?

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[MarkSheppard]

I'm dealing with an overload of issues ATM....... I cannot find this weapon in the game. It may be under a different name or number designation.

From Wiki:

The Vympel R-73 (NATO reporting name AA-11 Archer) is a short-range air-to-air missile developed by Vympel NPO that entered service in 1984.

NATO ended up testing a pile of them when East Germany fell; and found that the R-73 was far more capable than the Sidewinders of the era (1990), which forced development of all the modern short range missiles (AIM-9X, etc) by NATO.

A close analog would be OBAT12 USA - Weapon 129 - MIM-72 SAM used for the M48 Chaparral; with adjustments to account for:

Greater Range (R73 is 6.5 inches in diameter versus 5 inches for Sidewinder -- that 1.5 extra inches gives more range)

Slightly Improved Accuracy (accounting for off-axis capability of R73 seeker head)

But as you said, the AFU OBAT is getting pretty crowded; and we don't know just how many of these new FrankenSAMs are being made.

[DRG]

I had a full post ready to send and my new keyboard bit me in the ***

IN THE GAME from the info I have found the R-73 would use pretty much the same stats as the existing Ukraine weapon 140 9M33M3 Osa but with the max game range of 255 and a WH of 11 instead of 10 the 9M33M3 has

In RL the R-73 would be an improvement...... especially when the supply of 9M33M3's have dried up but in the game I don't see it making any difference at all but I will build a unit and wait and see what develops between now and whenever we finally release V18

Right now I see this as a minor upgrade but in RL this is an important modification to a weapon I assume they and others who support Ukraine have a significant stock of

AH!............."All anti-aircraft missile regiments of Ukraine’s Land Forces equipped with the Osa system have received these upgraded systems."-

https://armyrecognition.com/focus-analysis-conflicts/army/conflicts-in-the-world/russia-ukraine-war-2022/ukraine-modernizes-osa-akm-systems-with-r-73-surface-to-air-missiles-to-reduce-reliance-on-foreign-supplies



The Hornet project is separate from the FrankenSAM initiative, which focuses on integrating Soviet-era systems with NATO missile technologies. FrankenSAM efforts include retrofitting Buk-M1 systems with RIM-7 Sea Sparrow missiles and adapting Soviet radars to work with AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles. A third FrankenSAM system under development combines Patriot missile components with Ukrainian radar systems. Testing of this system has shown it can destroy aerial targets, and it is expected to be operational by winter. Western allies have supported Ukraine's air defense efforts, contributing systems such as Patriot and IRIS-T as part of military aid totaling over $100 billion since February 2022.

[DRG]

Here's another question........ how many does it carry ?

[DRG]

Apparently, they have been looking for ways to use this for a while.......May 7, 2024 for the naval drone

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/the_long_awaited_solution_ukrainian_magura_v5_dron e_equipped_with_r_73_anti_aircraft_missiles-10421.html

Ukrainian Magura V5 ( Marine ) Drone Equipped with R-73 Anti-Aircraft Missiles

[DRG]

Well...... we are down to 13 unused weapons slots as they received the SAMP/T at the end of September


https://kyivindependent.com/italy-to-deliver-promised-samp-t-air-defense-system-by-end-of-september/

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Called out at 0530, so simply put the R-73 is superior to the 9M33 missiles.

I did some further "back checking" on my two sources from my last post.

So,
1) I'm not going to make this hard on myself, so I feel comfortable just to "cut and paste" from them.

2) It'll show a clear separation between the two.

9M33/GECKO
"The original 9K33 Osa system, equipped with various 9M33 series missiles, has a range of up to 7.5 miles and relies on radio command guidance."

However, I have found enough to support the following from ref. 1 last post same para.
The version most likely in use by Ukraine is the Osa-AKM (SA-8B Gecko Mod-1) , which employs 9M33M3 missiles with a maximum range of 9.3 miles and a ceiling of 40,000 feet. Unlike the original model, which carries four exposed missiles, the Osa-AKM features six missiles housed in box-type containers. (I believe in game that's the picture we have x6.

R-73/NATO AA-11 Archer
"The modified Osa systems can now carry a pair of rail-launched R-73s, replacing the standard canisterized 9M33 missiles. The R-73, a short-range missile with an infrared homing head, is designed for intercepting and destroying highly maneuverable enemy aircraft and drones in close air combat. It is effective day and night, from any direction, against targets in both the front and rear hemispheres and performs well under active electronic countermeasures. "

Further from my ref. 2 last post.
"Key characteristics of the R-73 include its ability to lock onto targets after launch (LOAL), allowing it to engage highly maneuverable and fast-moving aerial targets. The missile has a thrust-vectoring system, which enhances its maneuverability, making it highly effective in dogfights. It has an operational range of up to 30 kilometers (18.6 miles vs. 9.3 miles for GECKO.) and can engage targets at altitudes from 500 meters (1640 feet.) to 20 kilometers (65,600+ feet vs. 40,000 feet for GECKO.) . The R-73 is equipped with a high-explosive fragmentation warhead and an infrared seeker, providing all-aspect targeting capability, allowing it to strike targets from any angle."

This is like comparing "Apples to Oranges".
https://defence-blog.com/ukraine-modifies-cold-war-era-air-defense-systems-to-fire-new-missiles/
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/ukraine-modifies-soviet-made-sa-8-air-defense-systems-to-fire-r-73-missiles-following-delays-in-military-aid
(Reposted from last.)
https://weaponsystems.net/system/1064-9K33%20Osa
(The main page pictured unit (Bulgaria) is the same as was operated by the Ukraine 6-Luancher version.)
https://ausairpower.net/APA-Rus-PLA-PD-SAM.html#Gecko
(Scroll down 3/4 of the page.)
https://www.ausairpower.net/APA-PLA-AAM.html#mozTocId969013
(Pay attention what we are discussing which is a modification of an Air-to-air missile. However, it's worth the view for characteristic purposes.
Scroll down near bottom of page.)
https://ausairpower.net/search.html
(Homepage and about the best in what they do IF YOU TAKE THE TIME TO DO SO.)

That was "SHORT and QUICK" :p just the way Don likes them to be. :D

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

The R-73 OSA-AKM now replaces the SA-8b Gecko 11/124 as all those units have been upgraded to use the Vympel R-73 in RL

[DRG]

If anyone sees any information on the time it takes to reload the new version of the Gecko, please let us know.

It was five minutes with the 9M33
https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17158&stc=1&d=1734100865

[MarkSheppard]

https://x.com/AirPowerNEW1/status/1867656436584521734

December 13, 2024 : "The Marine Corps has fielded a mobile, drone-killing air defense system to its 3rd Littoral Anti-Air Battalion in Hawaii, the service announced, with the system expected to achieve initial operational capability later today. " ~ Inside Defense

The system in question is MADIS (Marine Air Defense Integrated Systems) -- it uses the JLTV as the base platform and it appears the platform that was IOCed is:

AN/MSY2(v)2 (aka MADIS MK2) which is the dedicated C-UAS configuration featuring 360° #AESA radar, EO/IR, EW suite, & 30x113mm gun + two stinger missiles.

I may have covered this earlier in the thread. IDK.

[DRG]

Now entered

[MarkSheppard]

https://x.com/Archer83Able/status/1869365603808534872

As a first U.S. Army unit, the 41st Field Artillery Brigade (Grafenwoehr, Germany), received modernized M270A2 Multiple Launch Rocket System launchers.

"The major difference we have seen with the M270A2 is that they are a little bit faster and more mobile [...] They have an improved cab that protects the soldiers which the M270A1 did not have, as well as a myriad of system upgrades that allow us to shoot faster and process missions more efficiently" - Capt. Kendal Peter, commander of Charlie Battery, 1st Battalion, 77th Field Artillery Regiment, 41st Field Artillery Brigade.

The big thing for M270A2 will be integration with future weapons, such as Precision Strike Missile.

[MarkSheppard]

https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-updates-germany-hands-over-first-of-new-howitzers/live-71281086

RCH 155, first one handed to Ukraine....

First of new German howitzers handed to Ukraine
Germany's defense minister, Boris Pistorius, has handed over the first of 54 planned wheeled howitzers to Ukraine to help bolster artillery capability.

"Ukraine can count on us, and this is a signal. And Germany is ready to assume responsibility in Europe," Pistorius said in the city of Kassel, where the weapons system is produced by tank manufacturer KNDS.

Ukraine's ambassador to Germany, Oleksii Makeiev, symbolically accepted the first of the new RCH 155 self-propelled howitzers for his country.

"We don't need mediators, we need allies," said the ambassador.

The RCH 155 artillery system is described by its manufacturer as the "world's most modern wheeled howitzer," which makes it possible to fire on the move for the first time.

Also, complete FO Vehicle set to be delivered with them:

https://x.com/i/bookmarks?post_id=1879492163542639054

Just to get something straight, as this might have gone over some people's heads.

The 9 Boxer AiTO30 that Germany pledged to Ukraine yesterday are not IFV's. They are instead equipped with the Fire Director Controler (FDC) Mission Module, which has received the RCT30 turret for self-defence.

Their main job is to be the command and control element for a battery of 6 RCH155 155mm Self-Propelled Guns where they draw up and delegate fire missions for the battery.

For this reason, only 9 were pledged, as they are to operate with 9 batteries of 6 RCH155 each (total of 54 RCH155 have been pledged).

[MarkSheppard]

https://x.com/ColbyBadhwar/status/1882428071346905372

Estonia has taken receipt of 6 M142 HIMARS from Lockheed Martin in a ceremony at their plant in Camden, AR.

The 6 HIMARS, along with associated ammunition (GMLRS, ATACMS), were ordered via a ~$200 million Foreign Military Sales case, signed in Dec 2022, following approval in July 2022.

The 6 HIMARS will be shipped to Estonia in the coming months and will be fully operational this summer. Estonian artillerymen have already been training at Fort Sill, OK, with other FMS customers since last year.

[DRG]

[url]

Just to get something straight, as this might have gone over some people's heads.

The 9 Boxer AiTO30 that Germany pledged to Ukraine yesterday are not IFV's. They are instead equipped with the Fire Director Controler (FDC) Mission Module, which has received the RCT30 turret for self-defence.

Their main job is to be the command and control element for a battery of 6 RCH155 155mm Self-Propelled Guns where they draw up and delegate fire missions for the battery.

For this reason, only 9 were pledged, as they are to operate with 9 batteries of 6 RCH155 each (total of 54 RCH155 have been pledged).

And they are FO vehicles in the Ukraine OOB now and they do pack a punch with the 30mm autocannon not normally associated with a FCV

https://i.imgur.com/5ma6Oz8.png

I have yet to confirm whether the Boxer AiTO30 sent to Ukraine do or do not have the Mells ATGM attachment. If they do they will be considerably nastier

The AiTO30 is a brother to the RCT30 which can ( or not ) have that Mells ( spike) launcher attached so if it does the Icon will look like that, if not it won't have the launcher hanging on the left side of the turret


https://armyrecognition.com/focus-analysis-conflicts/army/conflicts-in-the-world/russia-ukraine-war-2022/exclusive-germany-confirms-delivery-of-nine-boxer-rct30-ifvs-to-defend-ukraines-artillery-from-russian-drones



The RCT30 turret is equipped with the MK30-2/ABM automatic cannon, which has an effective range of 3,000 meters and a firing rate of 200 rounds per minute. A dual-feed system enables the use of two types of ammunition. The turret offers a 360-degree azimuthal rotation and an elevation range from -10° to +45°. It also features a coaxial machine gun and the SPIKE LR guided missile system, enhancing its capacity to engage ground and aerial targets. Additional features include programmable airburst ammunition, laser warning systems, and counter-drone capabilities. The unmanned turret design improves crew safety and integrates with command and control systems for networked operations.


All that makes it the same cost as a MBT

[Pibwl]

Brazil

087 Gepard A1 - according to Portuguese Wikipedia https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gepard and Polish article from 2022, bought only in 4/13 and delivered by 7/13 (now 1/05), similarly German Wikipedia. Seems, that the designation Gepard 1A2 was not changed.
No formation change needed.

109 Igla Team - according to https://armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2016/brazil-receives-russian-igla-s-manpads-tass-50502161, Brazil ordered ordinary Igla in 1994 (I don't know when delivered, might be 1998 like this unit), but better Igla-S (like this weapon) only from 2010. According to Wikipedia, Igla-S was produced only from 2004.

110 RBS-70 Team - bought only in mid-2014 (now 1/90) - https://web.archive.org/web/20140307084756/http://www.armyrecognition.com/march_2014_global_defense_security_news_uk/army_of_brazil_to_purchase_saab_rbs_70_vshorad_ver y_short_range_air_defense_system_0403141.html and the mentioned article. However, it should be RBS-70 Mk2 (better one, from Swedish oob)
Needs formation change (the earliest is 111 - Mistral Team - Available 06/096)

In 2019 Brazil bought also RBS-70NG, presumably better, but there is no corresponding weapon in Swedish oob.

(Mistral is used by Brasilian naval infantry only)

[Pibwl]

Serbia

In 6/24 Serbia showed Chinese HQ-17AE SP-SAM. Might be generally copied from Chinese unit 587 HQ-17 Tor-M1, but modified with a wheeled chassis (80 km/h). The icon IMO can do as a wheeled vehicle as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HQ-17
https://armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/serbia-continues-to-purchase-chinese-equipment-with-acquisition-of-hq-17ae-air-defense-missile-systems

From mid-2020 Serbia uses also Russian Pantsyr-S1 (as Pancir-S1)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantsir_missile_system

From mid-2022 Serbia also uses Chinese FK-3 (HQ-22) area SAM, but we haven't an equivalent in Chinese OOB
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HQ-22

BTW: I think, that in Chinese oob,
590 - SA-2/HQ-1 SAM
591 - HQ-2 SAM
592 - HQ-2A SAM
741 - HQ-2B SAM - should have typical 4548 launcher icon of Soviet SA-2

[DRG]

Just a little teaser

We have the first steps done getting code in to better simulate the new SP arty units with GPS targeting that can fire, move and fire again at the same target and do it quickly and accuratly , from what I have read, a good simulation of the capabilties of the RL units.

There is still more tweaking to do but right now with a fire mission called by a GPS capable FO and a GPS capable arty unit it will be a game-changer...

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

That's great, "Shoot and Scoot" but that's a lot of artillery units.

Patch by the Fall or LATER-THAT'S FINE BY ME.

LET'S TAKE THE PRESSURE OFF THESE GUYS SO THEY CAN COME UP FOR AIR ONCE IN AWHILE FOR AWHILE. LIFES SHORT.

WE KNOW THERE'S MORE THAN THIS COMING AS HINTS HAVE BEEN DROPPED; I'M SENSING A MAJOR SOFEWARE/PROGRAMING JOB IN THE WORKS.

THIS WILL BE PROBALY ONE OF THE BIGGEST AND MOST IMPORTANT PATCH SINCE THE CONVERSION TO WINDOWS.

SO, I SAY, "SUCK IT UP" UNTIL MAGICALLY THE PATCH APPEARS.

AS SOME HAVE DONE DON'T ASK FOR WHEN. REFER TO THE ABOVE SENTENCE.

ANYWAY, THANK YOU ANDY AND DON!!!!

GO OUTSIDE HAVE A NICE WALK TAKE IN SOME FRESH AIR AND WHO KNOWS YOU MIGHT WANT TO "HUG A TREE" OR SOMETHING! :D

WE'RE NOT GOING ANYWHERE ANY TIME SOON OR LATER. ;)

I FEEL BETTER ALREADY MYSELF GETTING THAT OFF MY CHEST.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Pibwl]

Since we touched Chinese SAMs, minor tweaks:

593 HQ-61A SAM - there should be 2 missiles instead of 1 (as lbm shows). I'd give it an icon 8633 (similar truck with 4 AIM-7-size rockets)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HQ-6
(Wikipedia calls it HQ-61 without A. On the other hand, Polish article from 2012 calls it HQ-61B. Given the Chinese secrecy, maybe HQ-61 is the safest)
Reportedly, acording to the article, tested in 1989, but given to the army in "late 1990s" only, and first shown on 1999 parade. Maybe mid-90s is the safe date?


518 Hong Qi 16 - I suggest to rename it HQ-16, to be consistent with the rest

589 FM-80 - according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HQ-7 it is HQ-7, while FM-80 is export version.
Maybe a better icon is 842 used for Crotale (HQ-7 is a Crotale copy, first Chinese launcher was on a trailer)

I think I won't go farther in Chinese SAMs - I have several articles, but they have plenty, and the information, especially dates and actual service, are worse then scarse.

[MarkSheppard]

https://www.defensie.nl/actueel/nieuws/2025/01/29/defensie-versterkt-luchtverdediging-met-anti-drone-kanonsystemen

The Netherlands is buying 22 Skyranger 30 mobile anti-drone systems on the G5 ASCV chassis from FFG, with delivery by 2028.

https://i.imgur.com/2ihOVD6.jpeg

[Pibwl]

Portugal

050 M48A2 Chaparral - according to Polish 2024 article on Portuguese army, withdrawn by the end of 2010s (2019?), leaving Portugal without SP-SAM.
(also https://armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/portugal-upgrades-its-air-defense-system-by-replacing-its-chaparral-with-french-rapidranger )

[Pibwl]

Slovakia

046 152mm Field Gun
048 152mm Battery - D-20 howitzer - English, Russian nor Czech Wikipedias don't list Czechoslovakia nor Slovakia among its users, and Slovak Wikipedia doesn't mention its usage. IMO it should be deleted as a field gun, while unit 048 152mm Battery should have picture changed to Dana: 23700
(no formation changes needed, since 122 mm field gun remains)

039 ZTS Dana - it carried up to 60 shells (as in Czech and Polish OOB).
Weapon could be renamed eg. to 152mm M77 FH like in Czech oob.
Range is too big (214) - it should be 210 like in Polish OOB - max. range was 20 km = 210 (214 is apparently taken from D-20 firing rocket shells - 24 km).
ZTS is a manufacturer, it could be just Dana, or ShKH Dana (https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/ShKH_vz._77 )

Same remarks for Dana range in Czech oob (weapon #111) and Ukrainian oob (#111)
Czech Wikipedia confirms only 20 000 m range, although after 2010 new 25-km ammunition was developed, but I don't know if it was bought.


040 Zuzana - in Zuzana the ammunition was reduced to 40 (eg Slovak Wikipedia https://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/155_mm_samohybn%C3%A1_kan%C3%B3nov%C3%A1_h%C3%BAfn ica_vz._2000_Zuzana ).
Weapon's range is only 215, should be 39 km = 229.

043 Himalaya - it remained an export proposal on T-72 chassis. However, Zuzana 2 on a wheeled chassis was adopted, with L/52 gun replacing L/45 and range increased to 41 km (231). Delivered from 7/21. It had a different cab, Ukrainian lbm 4729 can be used.
(Slovak sites: https://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/155_mm_samohybn%C3%A1_kan%C3%B3nov%C3%A1_h%C3%BAfn ica_Zuzana_2
https://www.mosr.sk/49792-sk/-delostrelci-si-prevzali-nove-samohybne-kanonove-hufnice-zuzana-2/ )

Ukrainian OOB:

175 155mm Zuzana Pl and 814 Zuzana is actually Zuzana 2, and its weapon should have range 231 (now 215), and ammo reduced to 40.

The weapon is shared with 2S22 Bohdana L/52 with 42 km range (it could remain the same, or a new one with range 232 could be created)

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Here to help (Maybe)...
PORTUGAL/M48A2 CHAPERRAL/UNIT 050/CHANGE/NAME/M48A2 CHAPERRAL-RISE/MISSILE RANGE/DR 9KM ALT 4KM MIM-72J IF NEEDED/END/DEC 2018. //
Portugal also operated four M48A3 CHAPERRAL Systems primarily added non-game NBC and minor updates. For the record only all were converted to the M48A3 standard. Missile data included (RANGE verified by refs included plus others not. The missile timeline MORE than supports this. Just in case that has to be adjusted as they didn't get them until 1990 and they got the latest export version across the board. Also, below verified from Portuguese military site I'm not posting for reasons that I'm getting pictures of "pretty girls" or when I click on an item, I'm sent to the RAID game site (Name is Combat Armament-Blog.). Last updated in 2010. Apparently also a couple of sites are indicating they have 24 of the original units in storage (Maybe-Me. )

However, I did get the following worthwhile item:
"The "COMMANDO" does not die...he regroups in Hell" which is more than I can say about the site. Anyway...
https://weaponsystems.net/system/759-M48%20Chaparral
(See Launch Vehicle Section bottom.)
https://weaponsystems.net/system/760-MIM-72%20Chaparra
(MIM-72J export based on above selected MIM-72G.)
https://tank-afv.com/coldwar/US/M48-Chaparral.php


So where do they go from here? That might still be a "maybe" but will track. I can tell you for certain the following will have an OTH capability with full 360-degree coverage plus IRST System plus more. The launch platform used went into production in 2020 the first deliveries made it looks like in late 2020 to very early 2021. Made in Spain for the Spanish Army plus others. Spain will be fully equipped with these vehicles later this year. I speak of the VAMTAC S3/ST5.

Portugal has just signed a contract for a small number of the VAMPAC ST5 with the French THALES RapidRanger AAM System (You will note in the video that Maylasia already has them operational.)
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/portugal-upgrades-its-air-defense-system-by-replacing-its-chaparral-with-french-rapidranger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4kySg554FU
https://odin.tradoc.army.mil/WEG/Asset/c0feb863e67910393fecfbe7931ea627
https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/markets/defence-and-security/air-forces/advance-air-defence/rapidranger
https://images.thalesgroup-events.com/Web/THALES/%7B9a1dfbd3-9031-47e6-ae4d-8fe9873f931b%7D_RAPIDRanger_las_aow_ads_01062019_u k_datasheet.pdf?utm_source=TCA&utm_medium=email&utm_content=BL_LAS_IAS_Product_CPT_202404_Gated%20 content%20RapidRanger%20website_en&utm_campaign=
(Hope this opens up. And if anyone asks, I'm a Military Analyst.

Had to do some "tactical subterfuge" to get the last. ;) :D

Maylasia and as yet unknown others will need further investigation but Maylasia for sure and if I had to make a guess somewhere mid 2023/early 2024. Any takers!?! :cool:

Baked in with the best refs possible!?! (Time to get a little "cocky" our annual (And published.) two weeks in Hell is just over the horizon and the following month as we were the best Security Team in the region last year, the powers to be from a land far, far away have decided because of that, they want to see us repeat or worse (Supposed to occur only about every 3 three years if picked.) So...

"The "COMMANDO/or the Security Officer" does not die...he regroups in Hell"

Slight variation but the rest assured it can feel like it. Q&A on situational awareness issues/responses, procedures, general orders (Just like you learned in "Boot Camp".) and more I can't go into. And of course, "DRILL BABY DRILL" and when you think you're done for the day, be careful when they get back from dinner. I'll leave it to your imagination. After these are over only 2 left for the first and hopefully maybe only one or none of the latter. Not to worry as "John Q Public" will know what we're doing about access etc. April 2027 not working while in May/June I'll be burning the last of my leave and celebrating my 68th in June fully retired with 43 years served with the Dept. of the Navy plus another 15 years as a public working citizen before that. Proud to have served but, ready to call it a day the closer I get. :D

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

EDIT: Changed spelling TORD UNIT 50/"CHANGE"/NAME/ in the submission.

[DRG]

Here to help (Maybe)...:

NOT REALLY

PORTUGAL/M48A2 CHAPERRAL/UNIT 050/CHANDE/NAME/M48A2 CHAPERRAL-RISE/MISSILE RANGE/DR 9KM ALT 4KM MIM-72J IF NEEDED/END/DEC 2018. //
Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Pat

Are you telling me to change
M48A2 CHAPERRAL
to
M48A2 CHAPERRAL-RISE

?
Yes or no keep the answer that short

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,

Good Morning!

And YES.

A record!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Don,

Good Morning!

And YES.

A record!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Pat
For all the years you have posted and played this game I would hae thought by now that you would know the max number of letters, numbers or spaces for a unit name is 15 and what you told me to change the name to is 20

............ so from here on before you hit send make sure what you are asking for is actually possible.......OK?

[DRG]

I have a project for anyone who wants it as I am already busy x2

Find me the names of the systems and nations that have them for of all the modern artillery systems that can utilise GPS for precision targeting

RCH 155 is already covered but I believe there are others and/or others in the pipeline . I belive the M777 would also qualify but there must be others I just have too many other things to do ATM

Related article but I have not had time to read it through
https://euro-sd.com/2024/03/articles/36885/modern-artillery-fire-control-equipment-is-a-requirement-for-all-armed-forces/

[Pibwl]

I've heard only about Excalibur.
I'm sure you know it, but Wikipedia says, that self-propelled guns compatible with the Excalibur projectile are the American M109A6 Paladin and M109A7, British AS-90, German PzH 2000, South African G6, Swedish Archer and French Caesar. Towed guns compatible with the Excalibur projectile are the American M198 and M777 howitzers. Also Ukrainians used Excalibur with Krab.

Current operators: Australia, Canada, Jordan, India, Netherlands, Spain, Sweden, Ukraine (M777 and Krab and possibly others), and of course USA. Future or pending operators: Norway, Germany, Denmark.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Pibwl is on the right his list is good. I have to get in the shower!

The "short cut" is with the GPS EQUIPPED SHELLS/MISSILES and Rockets.

You CANNOT EFFECTIVLY fire a GPS ANYTHING because it has to know WHERE IT IS TO KNOW WHERE IT IS GOING.

SO, RECOMMEND FIND THE AMMO AND YOU'LL FIND THE "LAUNCHERS".

bUT THIS IS A "CAUTIONARY" TALE AS SOME POORER COUNTRIES WON'T HAVE THE AMMO OR EQUIPPED GPS UNITS THAT OTHERS DO.

sORRY FOR MESS!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Pibwl]

Artillery range annomalies.

As I understand, range 10 km = 200, and a surplus is added to 200 (eg. 2S1 Gvozdika: 15 km = 205, 2S19 Msta: 29 km = 219, M109A1: 23.5 km RAP = 214, M109A6: 30 km RAP = 220)

Krab: 40 km = should be 230
(Polish oob weapon #207 155mm L/52 and Ukrainian #115 oob is only 220)

K9: 41 km = should be 231
(S.Korean oob #124 155/52 FH is only 220; same for Finland #141 and probably whoever uses it)
(BTW: name of Korean unit 045 K-9 should be K9, for a consistency, and usually written this way)

PzH 2000: at least 40 km = 230 (or 54 km w/RAP = 244)
(German #112 155mm FH155-1 is only 215 - but it shares weapon with L/36 FH155-1, which has range only 30.1 km w/RAP according to German Wikipedia - which should be 221 anyway)
Same for Ukrainian #112, Hungarian #113, Greek #93 (used only by PzH2000), Netherlands #112 (shared with FH-70 and M-109).
Italian #144 is correct.

M109A1 + in British OOB: weapon #110 155mm M198 GH is 220, while it should be max 214 with RAP (23.5 km) (if they use RAP).

AS90 in Ukrainian OOB: weapon #141 has range 220, while it should be 24.7 km = 215. It shares weapon with FH-70, which should have the same range 24.7km actually (30.1 km only w/RAP)
In British OOB AS90 has correct range 215.

[Pibwl]

Russia

345 2S35 Koalitsiya - surely it's not used since 8/18, and it should have radio x3 as for now. Its real operational status and number is unknown, and the Russians didn't boast of its eventual service on Ukrainian front.
Reportedly in 6/20 eight howitzers were handed to experimental military operation. According to Russian Wikipedia https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/2%D0%A135[/url,] in 8/23 a factory director reported, that the production had started, and state trials would be completed by end of 2023.
Finally, on 5 January 2024(!) TASS agency informed, that Russian army received first Koalitsya-SV [url]https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/19677215

Ordinary range is given on Russian Wikipedia as 40 km, and 70 km only with a corrected ammo. This is BTW another case of GPS/Glonass corrected ammo, but I don't know what is its status. The Russians of course brag as usual, that Koalitsya with its range of 70 or 80 km "has no analogues in the world", but I'd guess, that a long-range precise ammo would be a rarity (provided that it reached production status...).

854 2S43 Malva - now used from 12/22. According to Russian Wikipedia https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/2%D0%A143, with a given source, on 26 October 2023 first series vehicles were given to the army. It gives range only 24.5 km = 215, or 40 km with RAP according to https://iz.ru/1595380/2023-10-26/voennyi-ekspert-rasskazal-o-preimushchestvakh-novoi-samokhodnoi-ustanovki-malva while now it has a super cannon of Koalitsya with 255 range (it basically has the same 2A88 cannon).

[DRG]

I've heard only about Excalibur.
I'm sure you know it, but Wikipedia says, that self-propelled guns compatible with the Excalibur projectile are the American M109A6 Paladin and M109A7, British AS-90, German PzH 2000, South African G6, Swedish Archer and French Caesar. Towed guns compatible with the Excalibur projectile are the American M198 and M777 howitzers. Also Ukrainians used Excalibur with Krab.

Current operators: Australia, Canada, Jordan, India, Netherlands, Spain, Sweden, Ukraine (M777 and Krab and possibly others), and of course USA. Future or pending operators: Norway, Germany, Denmark.

Those are the guns I have narrowed down to as a preliminary list and the nation list helps focus

We have just started exploring ways to best present them in the game as they are not "barrage" weapons

...and any thoughts I had about making forward progress just went out the window

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Sounds like this is now a "Dead Project" but, for me I just found the website I've been missing for the last couple of years. Don knows for many years I had include this sites information for just about every submission I made.

The research was very good, and the equipment data was as well.

Then the war came along in 2024, and it seemly died with it.

You wanted country listing it had it in alphabetical order based on everything that's in our world.

I got it to open up its working on my PC. I simply changed my "search plan" to get it and it worked, so I hope it will work in here, which I'll test when I finish this post.

Where I found it from the UK
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/is-militarytoday-com-gone.44256/
(29 Jan 2025 entry bottom. I believe I accidently came across this site a few years back related to their sites main objective.)

The site...
https://web.archive.org/web/20240808171137/https://www.militarytoday.com/

Artillery Section...
https://web.archive.org/web/20240405133648/https://www.militarytoday.com/artillery.htm
(Scroll all the way down to better appreciate the work they did and how deeply they covered each section. by equipment type.)

Couple of random selected individual systems...
https://web.archive.org/web/20240321205246/https://www.militarytoday.com/artillery/jupiter_5.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20240522224607/https://www.militarytoday.com/artillery/agm.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20240117090803/https://www.militarytoday.com/artillery/m1992.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20230821022238/https://www.militarytoday.com/artillery/t5_52.htm

Field Guns and Howitzers...
https://web.archive.org/web/20240117090747/https://www.militarytoday.com/artillery/trajan.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20240117090744/https://www.militarytoday.com/artillery/m777_portee.htm

SPAA...
https://web.archive.org/web/20240324235220/https://www.militarytoday.com/artillery/otomatic.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20240117090759/https://www.militarytoday.com/artillery/marksman.htm

Fire Support/Tank Destroyers...
https://web.archive.org/web/20240117090756/https://www.militarytoday.com/artillery/piranha_IIIc_df90.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20230815042015/https://www.militarytoday.com/artillery/mcv.htm
(One of the last I got from here the picture might look familiar to some.)

MLRS...
https://web.archive.org/web/20240117090759/https://www.militarytoday.com/artillery/astros_iii.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20240117090753/https://www.militarytoday.com/artillery/naiza.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20240204005701/https://www.militarytoday.com/artillery/rt2000.htm

Mortars Carriers/SPM...
https://web.archive.org/web/20231126130541/https://www.militarytoday.com/artillery/wiesel_2_mortar.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20240204005701/https://www.militarytoday.com/artillery/m1287.htm

Guided Artillery Shells...
https://web.archive.org/web/20240522224559/https://www.militarytoday.com/artillery/smart_155.htm
(Similar to French Bonus round.)
https://web.archive.org/web/20240315182249/https://www.militarytoday.com/artillery/krasnopol.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20231204184051/https://www.militarytoday.com/artillery/santimetr.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20240420010705/https://www.militarytoday.com/artillery/m982_excalibur.htm
(This was a newer area a couple of years at most before going dark.)


These contributors pretty much were volunteers from many countries especially from inside Russia. Very rarely did I have issues corroborating they're data against my other references I regularly use to this day.

It at the least was my starting point most of the time once I felt comfortable with their data and fact checking. Many times, it was the "middle word" and also the "final word" but it always provided the foundation to build upon and pointed me in the right direction to further look into a piece of equipment.

I HOPE THIS WORKS If for no one else than for me at least.

I have detected that this equipment and the others on this site were manually archived be they shut down to save it somewhere safe.

Rumors at the time suggested the Ukrainian Govt. shut them down for Security reasons. Other say like KBMW they were targeted as well due to their Russian sources.

I would like to think it was a little of the first and more that they joined the fight to save their country. They were young trying to make a living and I hope when this is done that they'll be back "live" again.

EDIT: TESTED ALL SAT/HOW DO I FEEL ABOUT THIS? WELL.../MERRY F-ing Christmas! /HOW DOES CINCLANTHOME FEEL ABOUT THIS AS I JUST RECIEVED A VISITATION AT OPPS 0350-WELL SOMETHING LIKE THIS IS RIDICULES!! :eek:

Earlier day later I need to get my "6" (Maybe in more ways than one now after the visit.)!! :doh:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Whether the following has any game impact or not is to be seen.

First half on truck mounted NASAMS in Ukraine. Latter half is on where the USA is going in their system.

"According to Colonel Per Steinar Trøite, head of the Norwegian Air Force’s support department for Ukraine, the NASAMS systems deployed to Ukraine have achieved an outstanding 94 percent effectiveness rate, a figure that highlights the advanced capabilities of this air defense system in real-world combat. In an interview with Aftenposten, Norway's largest daily newspaper, Colonel Trøite detailed the significant impact of NASAMS, revealing that it has successfully intercepted over 900 cruise missiles and drones, with more than 60 percent of these targets being cruise missiles, which are notoriously difficult to defend against."

In today's world that is a very impressive success rate at having a 94% kill rate. That includes also 300+ drones.

To defeat that many cruise missiles equipped with minimal EW is excellent.

Radar can pick up and track multiple targets out to 75 miles.

"The system’s missile engagement can be executed at varying ranges depending on the type of target. For example, while the AIM-120 missile has an effective range of up to 180 kilometers against some targets, NASAMS typically engages threats at a closer range—often between 25 to 50 kilometers—to maximize interception accuracy and minimize the risk of a missile getting through. "

In the field even we use them mounted on trucks (OSHKOSH FMTV 6x6.). The USA will be fielding them in 2025/26. They were also fielded with HIMARS launchers already.
https://www.army.mil/article/145021/Army_completes_second_test_firing_of_Multi_Mission _Launcher_program/
(The MML has since been replaced under another program. Also, in parallel an autonomous system is also being developed currently as well, also truck mounted with "chopped off" cab design.)

They as pictured are also used for "static" defense of Strategic assets such as airfields etc.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2025/focus-nasams-air-defense-system-intercepts-over-900-russian-missiles-with-94-percent-effectiveness-in-ukraine

Regards,
Pat
:capt: