SP, MLRS and SPAA Developments

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

My purpose here is the same as with the the MRAP and APC threads to inform and track new developments. But also to offer systems that came into being since about 2000 as many of these are the foundation of newer systems. So Germany is first up and will demostrate my last comment.
Germany, Italy, Netherlands and Greece/PzH 2000/C5/155mm L52 How and 7.62mm MG.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/pzh2000/ and http://www.military-today.com/artillery/pzh_2000.htm
Army-Tech quick look:
Key Data:
Crew 5 (commander, driver, gunner, 2 x ammunition loaders)
Dimensions:Hull Length 7.9m Overall Length 11.7m Barrel
Overhang 3.3m Width 3.6m Height 3.1m Combat Weight 55t Performance: Highway Speed Over 60km/h Typical Tank Cross-Country Speed Over 45km/h Radius of Action 420km Transportability STANAG 2832B Forward Slope50% Trench Crossing3m Guns:Calibre 52 Range With NATO Ammunition 30km Range With Base Bleed Ammunition 36.5km Range With Assisted Projectiles 40km Demonstrated Performance Multiple Round Simultaneous Impact capacity (MRSI) and firing on moving targets Resupply 60 rounds and 288 charges by 2 crew members in less than 10 minutes 50 seconds More than 26,300km of road and cross country driving Endurance Execution of 9 x 24-hour days, with 9 x 300 rounds from 37 different firing positions and
9 x 125km moves Firing Rate Demonstrated Using 24V Technology Automatic Loader 3 rounds in 9.2 seconds 8 rounds in
42.9 seconds 10 rounds in 59.6 seconds Sustained Firing Rate
20 rounds in 2 minutes 10 seconds Firing Rate Demonstrated Using 48V Technology Automatic Loader 3 rounds in 8.4 seconds
12 rounds in 59.74 seconds Sustained Firing Rate 20 rounds in
1 minute 47 seconds Power:Powerpack MTU type 881 Power-to-Weight Ratio 13.4kW/t Rating 736kW Transmission Renk HSWL 284C

Military-Today quick look:
Entered service 1998
Crew 5 men
Dimensions and weight
Weight 55 t
Length (gun forward) 11.67 m
Hull length 7.87 m
Width 3.48 m
Height 3.4 m
Armament
Main gun 155-mm
Barrel length 52 calibers
Machine guns 1 x 7.62-mm
Projectile weight 43.5 kg
Maximum firing range 30 - 40 km
Maximum rate of fire 9 rpm
Elevation range - 2.5 to + 65 degrees
Traverse range 360 degrees
Ammunition load
Main gun 60 rounds
Machine guns 1 500 - 2 000 rounds
Mobility
Engine MTU MT881 Ka-500 diesel
Engine power 1 000 hp
Maximum road speed 60 km/h
Range 420 km
Maneuverability
Gradient 60%
Side slope ?
Vertical step 1.1 m
Trench 3 m
Fording 1.5 m
And the good stuff:
9579 9580
Have run out of time have to get ready for work. Next will be the tie in unit. Would in the meantime appreciate any thoughts on the "quick looks" too much? too long? etc. thanks and have a great day!
Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

As promised PzH 2000 projected replacement.
Germany and United States/2014P/Donar/C2/155mm L52 How/
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/donar.htm and http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product4206.html
Mil-Today Quick Look:
Entered service -
Crew 2 men
Dimensions and weight
Weight 31.5 t
Combat weight 35 t
Length (gun forward) 10.3 m
Hull length ?
Width 2.8 m
Height 3 m
Armament
Main gun 155-mm
Barrel length 52 calibers
Machine guns -
Maximum firing range 40 km
Maximum rate of fire 6 rpm
Elevation range 0 to + 70 degrees
Traverse range 360 degrees
Ammunition load
Main gun 30 rounds
Machine guns -
Mobility
Engine MTU diesel
Engine power 720 hp
Maximum road speed 60 km/h
Range 500 km
Maneuverability
Gradient 60%
Side slope 30%
Vertical step ~ 0.9 m
Trench 2 m
Fording ~ 1.2 m

Pics:
9585 9586 Better PzH 2000 9587
Good Night!
Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

And now for something different SPAA, new and "tracking".
Switzerland/?/Skyranger/C2/DP 35mm/
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/skyranger.htm and
http://defense-update.com/products/a/aheadsparc.htm.
No quick look here except it's been designed to support duel purpose in a fire suppression role out to 5000m. Short articles.
Pics:
9592 9593 9594
Watching end of 50km cross and getting ready for USA vs Canada hockey, so I hope you will enjoy the rest of your day!
Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Staying with Air Defence and as a reminder dates are as "fielded":
RUSSIA/PANTSYR-S1/2010/C3/Quad 30mm and 12 57E6 AA Missiles.
Article: http://www.military-today.com/missiles/pantsyr.htm
Nato designation SA-22 GREYHOUND. Has been ordered by the following: ALGERIA, SYRIA and the UAE.
Pics:

9729 9728 9730

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Let me introduce the ARCHER this could be the first SPA unit to get in the game not to incur a "movement penalty" if the code allows it.
SWEDEN & NORWAY/ARCHER/2011/C4 (Min. 2)/155mm & LEMUR Remote 12.7mm.
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/archer.htm Note:30s Stop to Fire and 30s Out of Action this could be a potential counter battery nightmare.
And it seems BAE has gotten the final production contract approved. For those of us following the BMOD FRES program take note of the last para from the following as well, the French as I reported earlier are to get the CTWS 40mm to be mounted on a new platform.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/article/article_1639.html
Pics:
9740 9741 9742

Well I have to ready my Japanese forces for an assault against the Russians, so I hope you all have a great weekend!
Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

ARCHER update SWEDEN contracts for 48 units.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/contracts.php
Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

With a long and rich history in the field of artillery, how can I leave the French out of this? Your right I can't.
France, Saudi Arabia and Thailand/CAESAR/2007/C6/
155mm (18Rs) and OpRM 12.7mm/
Replaced Frances TRF1 towed 155mm, has armored cab for full crew protection from SAF and ASSplinters, <1m out of action time and "shoot and scoot" capibilities AND when firing a salvo of six OGRE cargo rounds (HE or AT bomblets) the coverage area is 3 Hectares= 30,000Sq. Meters= 7.41 Acres at saturation per this first source. I believe my maths right!?! If so that's a whole lot of "I wanna be somewhere else!". If correct this goes a long way to support some points made in IMPs CM Modeling thread from 7 FEB. 2010.
Anyway for your reading pleasure:
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/caesar.htm and
http://defense-update.com/products/c/caesar.htm (Shows number ordered by Saudi and Thai forces.)
Pics:
9859 9860 9861 9862
As mine is just starting, I hope the rest of you enjoy the rest of your weekend!
Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Come one, come all!! See the PANTSYR-S1 and S-300 in action!! PANTSYR-S1 is just reaching the field now (See post #4), while the S-300's "Offspring" the TRUMPF 400 has just deployed the first two launchers at the beginning of this year for the defence of Moscow after years of delays. See thread in this forum.
http://www.defense-update.com/newscast/channels/missilesnews.html#sam
Enjoy the video! Good Night!
Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Something a little different that depending on exports might show up in a WinSPMBT country. Developed by Soltam of Israel.
Kazakhstan/SEMSER/2008/C5~6/122mm L38, MG UKN, Rs UKN/
Info:
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/semser.htm
Pics:
10123 10122
Have a GREAT Weekend!
Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Next the KRAB built in cooperation with BAE. Note the similarity to the British AS90 BRAVEHEART. Designed for both Polish Army and potential export market.
Poland/KRAB/2008/C5/155mm L52 60Rds and 12.7mm Rds UKN/
Refs:
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/krab.htm
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product860.html and
http://www.hsw.pl/eng/s_krab_p.php Note: From the Polish manufacturer, the site also provides the full make up of a Polish
Artillery Battalion.
Pic:
10144
WinSPMBT Status: Poland
Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

In response to another thread, time for some U.S. arty.
PALIDAN M109A6/1991/US, Israel and Taiwan/C5/155mm L39 w/39Rs and 12.7mm w/500Rs.
A very reliable and battle proven system. I understand all U.S. units either are or almost (End of this year.) completely updated to the M109A6 PIM standard that was first fielded
in 2007.
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/m109a6_paladin.htm and
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/paladin/
Pics:
10225 10226

Next the CRUSADER highly advanced artillery system that died politically, by cost overruns and not meeting expectations. Technical advancements lead to the M109A6 PIM and the
XM1203 NLOS-C which should be fielded between 2012 and 2014.
CRUSADER/US/PFD 2008/C3/155mm w/49Rs.
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/crusader.htm and
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/crusader/
Pic:
10227

And finally the XM1203 NLOS-C the next generation of U.S. artillery I'll let the source and R. Lee Ermey of History Channels Lock N Load do the talking here.
XM1203 NLOS-C/2012-2014/US/C3/155mm L38 w/24Rs.
Will have dedicated ammo unit M992 as the ARCHER system has as fielded (See earlier post on ARCHER.).
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/nlos_c.htm
and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXAhZHyd2XA
(Also does an overview of the PALADIN as a lead into the
XM1203 NLOS-C.)
Pics:
10228 10229

Hope all you Dads have a Happy Father's Day!! Enjoy the rest of your weekends!! Back to the World Cup!!
Regards,
Pat

[thatguy96]

The US Army issued a stop work order (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2009/07/mil-090720-dod02.htm) for the NLOS-C on 24 July 2009 as part of the partial termination of the manned components of the FCS program and the realignment of the program under the Early BCT (E-BCT) upgrade program. I'm not sure if they've restarted work on it.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well since I like to make things "official" if possible, here's the best sources I can find to support the previous post
(And thanks again!).
http://www.defense.gov/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=12831 and from earlier this month, note para. 4.
http://www.army.mil/-news/2010/06/02/40209-future-force-integration-directorate-hosts-army-evaluation-task-force-change-of-command/
Well M109A6 PIM anyone? Though the Army is already considering replacement number three it looks like the PALADIN will be around until 2050! A hundred years (Though updated many times.) on one platform amazing!
Gotta get that bike ride in!!
Regards,
Pat

[Marcello]

Well M109A6 PIM anyone? Though the Army is already considering replacement number three it looks like the PALADIN will be around until 2050! A hundred years (Though updated many times.) on one platform amazing!


Last I heard about it, B-52s were supposed to serve until 2040, at which point they would be 80 years old (the last left the assembly line in the early 60's). Probably the Abrams will last until that timeframe too.
Several tens of billions were wasted chasing the FCS pipe dream. That kind of money to throw around won't be available for a long time given the economic outlook.
Given how insanely expensive procuring new hardware has become it is likely that the current AFVs will soldier on for a very long time indeed.

[EJ]

NOT surprising to read. Yours and my tax dollars "pee'd" down the drain. What the hell are OUR leaders thinking?:doh:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Been awhile it's been one of those summers as of today we tied the all time heat record for the Jacksonville FL. area, gotta love it!! Anyway here's the M777 PORTEE.
PORTEE/UK/C6/155mm L39 w/70 Rds./
PORTEE was developed by BAE to compete against the Giat CAESAR under the British MOD LIMAWS (G) Program. The British cancelled the program in 2007 which forced the life cycle extension (w/ upgrades.) of the AS90 until 2023.
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/m777_portee.htm AND http://defense-update.com/products/p/portee.htm.

Pic:
10359

Also:
1) USA to get Honeywell aTALIN for all its M119 155mm ARTY accuracy equivalent of one round on a truck at 5 miles.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/17484/

2)Sweden and Norway to use common ODIN system for ARCHER.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/17501/

Regards,
Pat

[Marcello]

I got the feeling that in a high intensity war fought with modern counterbattery techniques unless you are really good at jamming/neutralizing enemy Firefinder type radars towed guns will be able to spend only very limited amount of time firing. Such truck mounted guns, by cutting the amount of time needed for attaching them to the prime mover can mitigate the problem without being as expensive as a standard SPA. In lower intensity situations they are still cheaper to run than a tracked SPA.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Canada continuing it's modernization and systems updating program, this time to upgrade it's LAV II to mount the
NEMO 120mm turreted mortar system.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/18013/
Happy Labor Day!!

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

That would be Labour day...... :)

[DRG]

Also, although the headline says "Patria’s Nemo Mortar System Selected for Canadian LAV II Vehicles "

what the article says is...


Patria Nemo 120 mm mortar system has been selected as weaponry for LAV II vehicles delivered by General Dynamics Land Systems - Canada as an FMS project by the US Government.


I could be wrong but I think whoever wrote this assumed that because they were being made in Canada that they were destined for the Canadian Army but that's not how I read it

Don

[Mobhack]

Also, although the headline says "Patria’s Nemo Mortar System Selected for Canadian LAV II Vehicles "

what the article says is...


Patria Nemo 120 mm mortar system has been selected as weaponry for LAV II vehicles delivered by General Dynamics Land Systems - Canada as an FMS project by the US Government.


I could be wrong but I think whoever wrote this assumed that because they were being made in Canada that they were destined for the Canadian Army but that's not how I read it

Don

That is already the POV at tanknet it appears: http://208.84.116.223/forums/index.php?showtopic=32514

Cheers
Andy

[DRG]

The 724 Lav II's purchased by the Saudis a year ago was interesting info.....

Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don't want to get too caught up in this and obviously we need better clarification on this deal, but this next article also points to Canada getting the NEMO on the face of it. I also ran across several sources that suggest the LAV II's referred to are for Saudi Arabia. I'll have to follow this "devil" closely.
http://www.army-technology.com/news/news95241.html

Also the EXCALIBUR 1b updated 155mm shell to be fielded by 2012.
http://www.army-technology.com/news/news94845.html

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I was asked about this in a PM and it's come up elsewhere. I hope this article will help but more importantly look to the links on the bottom. Where they don't give you the complete articles all the time (That'll be $500 per annum.) the links usually are complete. These folks do a great job in their project timeline developments/updates. So here's "SEE-WHIZ"!
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/phalanx-ciws-the-last-defense-on-ship-and-ashore-02620/
Pic:
10537
Enjoy!

Regards,
Pat

[Imp]

I was asked about this in a PM and it's come up elsewhere. I hope this article will help but more importantly look to the links on the bottom. Where they don't give you the complete articles all the time (That'll be $500 per annum.) the links usually are complete. These folks do a great job in their project timeline developments/updates. So here's "SEE-WHIZ"!
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/phalanx-ciws-the-last-defense-on-ship-and-ashore-02620/
Pic:
10537
Enjoy!

Regards,
Pat

Perhaps we should all donate $10 & let you at it & Jane's Pat, not sure your other half would approve though as you vanish down the internet:)

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

John and everyone else of like mind,
I appreciate the offer and the compliment attached. As for Aileen, I'm sort of already there a little bit! But she's a good woman (And I'm a very lucky man to have her.) who let's me "sail away" (To say "soldier on" just didn't seem appropriate!) with the news. Pencil whipping the list now to cover all my thread starters hope to post it now by the end of this month, too a much smaller degree I feel Don and Andy's (And any others?) pain with all the data in verification and cross referencing of it.
The weather is beautiful here today and I think a nice ride on the bicycle is called for to clear my head. Hope all your weekends are going well!!

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

SP news,

1. Will the USMC EFSS/ITV 120mm survive the budget ax?
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/EFSSITV-The-US-Marines-Mobile-120mm-Mortar-System-06756/#more-6756

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Just finishing what I started yesterday in the transfer of "raw data" from the "patch thread" to the home threads. Q&A between Don and myself along with the pictures are again, as a reminder in the "Patch Thread".

SP & SPAA...

A1. ADD: NORWAY/ARCHER/JAN 2012/Per SWEDISH UNIT 416/
This is a joint venture between the two countries. First operational units not due for delivery until OCT. 2011 again allowing for small delays and training w/JAN 2012. It should be noted as in the Post below; these are manufactured and sold with a matching ammo carrier as shown in the pictures of the post. Can maybe this be addressed at a later time within the game?
Don't know what the technical issues are to do this.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Sweden-Norway-to-Cooperate-on-Archer-Artillery-Project-05142/#more-5142
Does the M 151 RO MG system need to be added? See "ARCHER SYSTEM" Para with pic.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/9306/
Covers joint deal w/delivery date.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/8490/
Announces prototype is ready. See related article links at bottom.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/archerhowitzer/
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product2819.html
See links at bottom of article.

C1. CHANGE: SWEDEN/ARCHER/Fielded date of JAN 2012 vice
JAN 2010/
See notes and refs for A1 above.
Posts: Page 1; #5 & #6 and Page 2; #16.

C2. CHANGE: FINLAND/AMV AMOS/UNITS 335 & 348/Fielded dates to JAN 2013 vice Jan 2008./ The below source though not complete does start to mention contract issues. The Jan 2008 date was about the time the Swedes were having their legal issues with PATRIA as mentioned above in the APC section for the AMV. Also it's my understanding that the AMOS and NEMO systems are from the start capable of direct fire support out of the box, wouldn't it make sense to delete FINNISH UNIT 335 based on that and ensure that the SWEDISH AMV AMOS is a copy of FINNISH UNIT 348? Note dates are only 1yr. apart.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Both-Barrels-Finnish-Order-Launches-Patrias-AMOS-Mortar-Turret-06692/
Note it says "initial order" for the AMOS.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/20563/
Specifically mentions that amendments were made to the original 2003 contract.
http://www.army-technology.com/news/news105201.html
Again as above.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/proposer_une_news_48.html
Again as above. I'm convinced that issues with the contract existed and I'm willing to bet it had to do with PATRIAs legal issues in Sweden as part of the cause in the delay as well. If you go to the equipment side of a couple of the above sites they support what's in the OOB however those obviously have not been updated to reflect the news side of these sites from this past
Dec. of 2010 when PATRIA released the press notice.

A2. ADD: UAE (GULF STATES an issue for later.) & SYRIA/PANTSYR-S1/JAN 2007 & JAN 2009 respectively./As per RUSSIAN UNIT 414./
These are among the six countries mentioned in the refs to have received these SPAA units, but are the only ones I can find firm dates for. The other countries are India sometime around mid 2007 - 2008, Algeria in ~2008 and Jordon & Libya ~2010 late -2011 late. I will find what I can but this will be for next year.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/newsflash/algeria_libya_set_to_buy_russian_pantsir-s1_short-range_air_missile_defense_systems_russia.html
About Algeria and Libya.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/pantsyr/
Please don't mix up contract dates with delivery dates. Note country and expected users mentioned.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_russian_missile_system_vehicle_uk/pantsir_pantsyr_s1_sa-22_greyhound_air_defense_missile_gun_system_techni cal_data_sheet_specification.html
See country user list bottom.
http://defense-update.com/products/p/pantsir.htm
Mentions India in the last line. Will make contact with BROADSWORD site to see if I can't get some independent confirmation on this.
Post: Page 1; #4 & #8.

M1. MOD: RUSSIA/PANTSYR-S1/UNIT 414/Name as shown vice
S1 PANTSYR/Fielded date from JAN 2008 to JAN 2010./
This is a highly capable SPAA unit that Russia exported before they made it operational for their Air Force. Per the post below they are using the more advanced SA-22 discussed. Name change based on refs. and the headache I got trying to verify status in the game, the last is the funny part!?!
http://www.armyrecognition.com/newsflash/russian_armed_army_forces_receive_the_first_10_new _air-defense_systems_pantsir_s1_sa-22_greyhound.html
Russian operational induction in 2010.

M2. MOD: USMC/LAV-AD BLAZER/UNIT 54/Change end date to JUN 2004 vice DEC 2001/Modify TI/GSR to 45 and EW to 5 as Unit 50 currently shows and possible 25mm ammo load maybe increased?/ Both units shared the same BLAZER turret. What really hurt this unit was its low production rate with only 17 total units made. Spares (electronic components) were already very expensive and made more so by the limited numbers. By permission I work with retired USMC GySGT. C. Vanderaa who was a gunner in the test unit evaluating the LAV-AD and he informed me there was one circuit board they had that cost just over 100K, ONE CARD. But he loved them just as any who served with them or were supported by them as they were used for fire support during the spring and summer of 2003 during OIF. Check the blogs for yourself. The 25mm is the same as used by the USMC Harriers and AC-130U SPOOKY w/APDU rounds as well I understand.
UPDATE 01/20/2011: Relieved the "Gunny" and he commented the following 1) BLAZER turret underwent only minor changes. 2) Explained "Vision" to him in game terms, he noted the systems FC and Vision were very sensitive and far reaching because one of the parameters in the design had to be the very fast and accurate response to "pop up" helos at close in and extended ranges. It was simply a matter of who shoots first wins. So ECM, FC & TI/GSR were very advanced for the time. 3) APDU were the preferred rounds carried on board to meet APC etc. threat, and he specifically mentioned to have the ability to take down the HINDS quickly if encountered and to take out fortified positions and anyone defending them which was very adept in during OIF. He got to see them in action in OIF and they were glad to have them. Apparently according to him they exceeded expectations locally in the ground support role. Ammo is an issue to be addressed based on this and below.
http://www.marines.mil/news/messages/Pages/2003/Messages03top55.aspx
Note RMKS/1.C. the 4th LAV (AD) Platoon was the HQ Platoon. This message is dated on 241500Z NOV 2003, almost two months into FY04; this is why I chose JUN 2004 vice APR 2004(Mid point for FY04.). The latest date possible would be SEP 2004 as
OCT 2004 would start FY 2005.
http://www.angelfire.com/tx6/lav_ad/index.html
Capt. Whit Houston’s site, the last CO to command the LAV-AD Company when they cased their colors.
http://www.angelfire.com/fl/jasonm/
Sgt. Jason Millett’s site, he served with Capt. Whit Houston during his tour as CO prior to, and during OIF until the unit cased its colors. You'll need a little patience to download his video but for those of you that served they'll see those kids weren't much different then when we did our time, enough said there. Towards the end are pictures of the 25mm rounds I mentioned above, if not APDU, they are certainly a modified AP round of some sort, I'll check with the "Gunny". Also a great song by "Three Doors Down" it sets the tone for the video and situation and reminds me of my own long deployments away from family but still surrounded by "family" under the waves.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/systems/gau-12.htm
To support the above and APDU rounds, though on the HARRIER, I understand this was standard for the LAV-AD for the same purpose against air and light armored targets. Might this affect the current ammo penetration value given for the unit?
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/lav-ad-specs.htm
Note ammo load (out) is this an issue for the game unit?
http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Rifts/Rifts-Earth-Vehicles/Golden_Age/GAW_LAV.htm
From some game site (UKN) but the info on the technical side (Non game.) is correct. Might be of some value for you developers as well.
http://www.generaldynamics.com/
No reference to the LAV-AD off the current site in the
Land Systems section.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM82Vuq3PdM
LAV-AD combat night action during OIF note comment section. Play it loud and in full screen and thank God you’re not on the receiving end! Short about 1 mike. Also answers the wheel spin effect in some pictures, that was brought up in the MRAP thread I believe, in the second comment called "stroboscopic effect”, who says we can't learn something new once in awhile?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XooFmPUt6aA
General Dynamics Aerospace video on the LAV-AD BLAZER in action. Short about 1.5 mikes.
Added new pics because the one shown in the game is the export version with the MINSTREL System:
Pic:

D1. DELETE: USMC/LAV-AD BLAZER/UNIT 50/
The LAV-AD BLAZER was taken out of service as the official USMC document will show above in M2 among other refs as well. This version I trust shows it with the STRINGER BLK II missile which had its funding stripped and was cancelled in 2002, it never was fielded. LAV-AD was eventually replaced by the HUMVEE AVENGER platform.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/blazer/ Supports info above in M2 as well.
End of Part 2.
Pat

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

News of the last week.

1. Lost the article from JANEs but the headline was that France will receive the last 4 of 77 CEASAR units ordered by the end of the month-sorry.

2. How a phone call revolutionized artillery munitions.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/22584/

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

News of last week...

1. USA fields APMI 120mm GPS guided mortar cartridges to Afghanistan.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/23135/
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/23297/

2. There have been numerous TORNADO sightings and "touchdowns" in Russia the affects of which can be destructive if in the vicinity. You'll just have to read it for yourself!?! ;)
http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20110328/163247668.html
These guys just seem to be ahead of everyone pretty often as I've noted before.
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/9a52_4.htm
10988 10989

Follow up on! :capt:

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

News of the LW+:

1. EXCALIBUR 155mm PGR has been stepped up to full rate production status. With the improvements made to PALADIN (PIM) and Towed Howitzers (TH) in targeting capabilities over the the last year, it was only a matter of time before EXCALIBUR was mated to these improved systems in greater numbers. EXCALIBUR has lived up to all expectations in the field, especially in significantly lowering the possibility of collateral damage. Will it replace all conventional rounds? I don't think so, after all as I already noted in this thread the improved BAE targeting system (For TH.) can take out a truck at five miles with one shot. However given the choice especially in populated areas I'm sure the call will be "EXCALIBUR ON THE WAY!"
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/23944/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/1726M-for-GPS-guided-Excalibur-155mm-Shells-06835/

2. USA learning from cancelled programs.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/23843/

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Thailand contracted to buy the very capable CEASAR SPA in 2006 but apparently to what amounts to only a platoons worth of 6 units. The order was to be completed by the end of 2010. Based on this info I'll recommend June 2010, and disregard 2007 from Post#7, the French Army fielded the CEASAR in July 2008 with dedicated ammo resupply units as also pictured in Post #7.
ADD/THAILAND/JUNE 2010/CEASAR w/Dedicated ammo resupply vehicle./C6/L52 155mm 18Rds (Including OGRE CM.) and 12.7mm UKN Rds/DEFENCE: Armored Cab offering protection against SAF & Arty SSplinters./ Note on OGRE CM a six shell salvo will release 368 bomblets covering in saturation an area of 3 hectares or 30,000 Square Meters that's for the CM doubters still out there. For additional information see Post #7, and ref below and note para 5.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/caesar/
Also since we're here ADD/SAUDI ARABIA/JUNE 2011/Based on para 6 of above ref as well./

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

1. IRON DOME it's quite a hit! I don't believe the earlier articles directly identified the type of rockets brought down.
http://defense-update.com/wp/20110407_iron_dome_ashkelon.html

2. MEADS continues on developmental track before program ends.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/25375/

3. Some have asked so here's a system to help you better understand how counter battery works.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/25184/

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

More MEADS news. What's of interest is that Poland is very much considering the system and is looking into the possibility of being a partner in the program. This could have some interesting ramifactions for the program down the road. On the last Ref. check the JUNE 15 & 21 Key Events. 2014 takes it to plus 1 year past U.S. development phase date as planned previously.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1937:poland-mod-explores-meads&catid=1:europe&Itemid=57
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/25598/
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/25597/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/34b-development-contract-signed-for-meads-0639/#contracts

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I don't see much more here however I will further look into the Norwegian NASAM mobile launcher issue, which as stated below, I believe will use the same platform as the Finns. Again from PP#1 2011/2012.

SPA and SPAA
Just a couple of items here with a reminder.

M1. FINLAND/M270 MRLS/DEC 2011/UNIT 557 & 554(?)/MODIFY/Finland has only been operating the system since 2007. This upgrade provides for Precision Fire FCS, GPS Targeting, extends ordnance options and ranges.
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/news/press_releases/2011/MFC_051811_Lockheed_Martin_Receives_45.3_million.h tml
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/24639/
http://www.deagel.com/news/Finnish-Army-to-Upgrade-22-M270-MLRS-Rocket-Artillery-Systems-Precision-Fires-Capability_n000008771.aspx
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/mlrs/
http://www.asdnews.com/news/30848/Finland_-_M270_Multiple_Launch_Rocket_System_Upgrade.htm
Pics:

A1. ADD/RUSSIA/TORNADO MRLS/APR 2011/C2/6 & 12 ML 300mm SMERCH Rockets/ These are updated versions of the SMERCH rocket that are GPS guided. It can carry multiple munitions types and can still launch the unguided versions. The key here is the improved operability of the system from the launcher which is much more maneuverable, air mobile and much easier and faster to reload. This is the replacement for the BM-21 GRAD which is taking place at this time. The Max. range is 70km and 90km with a specialized rocket.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_russian_army_vehicles_system_artillery_uk/tornado_cv_9a52-4_mrls_multiple_rocket_launcher_system_data_sheet_ specifications_information.html
See Page 3 Post #30 Item #2.

A2. ADD/FINLAND/NASAMS II FIN/JAN 2015/C 4/6 Multiple Launcher AIM 120 AMRAAM/USE UNIT 551 TRUCK/Modify UNIT 559 accordly./ The truck used in UNIT 551 looks like the SISU 8x8 that will be the primary carrier for the system. This system will be more advanced then shown by UNIT 559 which was probably based on NASAMS as used by the Norwegians for the past ten years. I also believe the Norwegian system is mobile as well but might not get to it this first time around and I think they also use the same truck as well. Most Refs below were pulled from the "Transport for U.S. Patriot..." thread Pgs. 3 & 4. As you can see I built on to this one, didn't expect to see it, and missed it at first.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/23345/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Finland-Updating-Its-Air-Defense-Systems-05398/
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4313048
http://www.raytheon.com/newsroom/feature/smd09/slamraam/index.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/april_2011_news_defense_army_military_industry_uk/sisu_defence_delivered_the_1st_batch_of_nasams_fin _air_defence_vehicle_to_finnish_army_0804113.html
http://www.sisudefence.fi/node/29
http://www.sisudefence.fi/product/8x8

A3. ADD/POLAND/ZUBR P/APR 2011/C2/RWS POPARD SAM w/12 PZR GROM-2 AA missiles./ To be honest I'm making an educated guess on GROM load out based on size and payload capacity of the ZUBR-P and size of the missile as it is also a MANPAD system used by Polish forces. The Poles also use the GROM-2 on the
ZSU-23-4MP BIALA and ZUR-23-2KG.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/zubr-apc/
http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=451
http://www.military-today.com/apc/zubr_mrap.htm
http://articles.janes.com/articles/Janes-Land-Based-Air-Defence/Grom-Poland.html
Pic:

R1. THAILAND/CAESAR/REMINDER/ADD per Post #32 (DATA already in PP format.)./USE FRANCE UNIT 050 or 051. /Post #7 provides additional background information.

R2. SAUDI ARABIA/CAESAR/REMINDER/ADD per Post #32 (DATA already in PP format.)./USE FRANCE UNIT 050 or 051. /Post #7 provides additional background information.

News...
1. DENAL of S. Africa, an LAV III and a 105mm and you got a fast, mobile and as it turns out an highly accurate SPA piece.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/south_africa_african_artillery_vehicles_systems_uk/lav_iii_stryker_t7_105_mm_self-propelled_howitzer_technical_data_sheet_specificat ions_pictures.html
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/article/article_2253.html

2. The extent to which some countries arm their POLICE in this case they engage the PPK rebels regularly.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2203:turkey-police-forming-heavy-artillery-unit-to-combat-pkk&catid=3:asia&Itemid=56

3. Brazil and the ASTROS 2020 MRL Program and Israel is watching as it looks to update it's SPA's.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2135:brazil-government-allocates-680-millions-for-astros-2020-mrl-development-a-acquisition&catid=35:latin-america&Itemid=58
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/27262/

That should be it for the segments, now PP#2 work can now can continue.

Gotta rescue a 180lb. dummy amongst other things in the morning so I'll say good night and have a great week!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

China looks to get Patriot Missiles in a most unusual arms procurment move well almost. How can this happen? Well you'll just have to read these for yourself.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16292244
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2689:-finland-authorities-to-investigate-alleged-patriot-smuggling-to-china&catid=1:europe&Itemid=57
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/finnish-government-gives-transit-permit-to-cargo-of-patriot-missiles-to-skorea/2012/01/04/gIQAhiKDaP_story.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/finland-lifts-embargo-on-cargo-of-patriot-missiles-explosives-charges-2-crew-with-negligence/2012/01/05/gIQAowPqcP_story.html

Hate to lose this info some might find it useful, can't remember if I posted this regarding the FUZE thread or not. This is a good home for it anyway.
http://dmilt.com/docs/PGM.pdf

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I think some might find these interesting on the North Korean TYPE-63 107mm MRL and M-1979/M-1989 170mm SPA. These are from the excellent KPAJOURNAL.
http://www.kpajournal.com/vol-2-no-2-february-2011/
http://www.kpajournal.com/vol-2-no-6-june-2011/
http://www.kpajournal.com/vol-2-no-7-july-2011/

Again the homepage of this excellent site with professional analysis:
http://www.kpajournal.com/

Regards,
Pat

[Marcello]

A1. ADD/RUSSIA/TORNADO MRLS/APR 2011/C2/6 & 12 ML 300mm SMERCH Rockets/ These are updated versions of the SMERCH rocket that are GPS guided. It can carry multiple munitions types and can still launch the unguided versions. The key here is the improved operability of the system from the launcher which is much more maneuverable, air mobile and much easier and faster to reload. This is the replacement for the BM-21 GRAD which is taking place at this time. The Max. range is 70km and 90km with a specialized rocket.

The problem with adding it is that in the game its advantages (guidance, mobility etc.) are not visible, as such systems are now off map only and "guidance" is simulated, to the extent it is possible, via FOs. Therefore all you are going to get in practice is a cheaper Smerch launcher with far fewer rockets.

[dmnt]

I don't see much more here however I will further look into the Norwegian NASAM mobile launcher issue, which as stated below, I believe will use the same platform as the Finns. Again from PP#1 2011/2012.

A2. ADD/FINLAND/NASAMS II FIN/JAN 2015/C 4/6 Multiple Launcher AIM 120 AMRAAM/USE UNIT 551 TRUCK/Modify UNIT 559 accordly./ The truck used in UNIT 551 looks like the SISU 8x8 that will be the primary carrier for the system. This system will be more advanced then shown by UNIT 559 which was probably based on NASAMS as used by the Norwegians for the past ten years. I also believe the Norwegian system is mobile as well but might not get to it this first time around and I think they also use the same truck as well. Most Refs below were pulled from the "Transport for U.S. Patriot..." thread Pgs. 3 & 4. As you can see I built on to this one, didn't expect to see it, and missed it at first.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/23345/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Finland-Updating-Its-Air-Defense-Systems-05398/
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4313048
http://www.raytheon.com/newsroom/feature/smd09/slamraam/index.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/april_2011_news_defense_army_military_industry_uk/sisu_defence_delivered_the_1st_batch_of_nasams_fin _air_defence_vehicle_to_finnish_army_0804113.html
http://www.sisudefence.fi/node/29
http://www.sisudefence.fi/product/8x8


Finnish military official site has been updated recently and lists also some generic information about the NASAMS system:
Minister of Defence decided in 2009 that BUK M1 (local designation ITO96) will be replaced with Norwegian NASAMS II system. The material will be received in 2011 and first conscripts will be trained in 2012.

Fire distribution center: Kongsberg Defence & Aerospace AS.
Radar: Raytheon AN/MPQ-64F1 "Sentinel"
Electro-optical sensor: Rhein�*metall Defence Electronics MSP 600, TI, CCTV and laser range finder
Carrier: Sisu 8x8
Missile: AIM-120 AMRAAM

Main reason for the switch is the poor performance of BUK M1 against ECM systems.

Machine translated page: here (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.puolustusvoimat.fi%2Fportal%2Fp uolustusvoimat.fi%2F!ut%2Fp%2Fc5%2FvZHLjqpAEIafxQf AroYeLkuQi4CAQ4NcNqZxcAQFGcMA8vTHZJJzVsfVxPqXX_76k iqUo0daNlSfrK-uLbugFOXi3uJFee0AVgLX08AONrCTNlu84gWUoBTIntb3zp7Pc 1jDiGmd8VFtjJ5uBn5McDQHd88AngLe-PVhpnN892MZQFbwznw3VLvgXJotHrvyZzYLnnPAP1wUDNfwLYK t7YqATfVYiWJJsGLxaT8IpR8O_xkVUIZy6V_fwr786Edb3gpNA Jeg6Bev8dwlvtD19kKX9DrX6nf_5aC8KprleGiWsHxAWVTwmyy IROaBR0mRTb5xtUfdTob4VOTwXdMzqSTXTNziIzi5pd7XUa1XP ZaE_ffUlmCd01HTzHvSHVOB1wlRv8jUqW7mcEQrJ5dGAlN1kKp zXxfOhU07WaMRIwfWmSwfWNitsdiG4ki3oWDdeifmOIOVx9I5B o1Abo6pK4N9oS0fNKF6VocSdj6suHLqvoxSO908dpy9Ij3hKDz aSfFxGBcL5K-vTYm6ZuiMcD2nf1OqfwAu0cKE%2Fdl3%2Fd3%2FL2dBISEvZ0F BIS9nQSEh%2F%3Fpcid%3De2c33d0043e3e7f285c6efc766e2 57a6&act=url)

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

This will be a busy year in this area not all will be expected to make it I'm sure as by arrangement, I'm trying to stay within a two to three year window to avoid the house keeping that's occurred in the OOBs over the last couple of years in a more aggressive manner. I have to keep the housekeeping going at my end as the data complied is interfering with my work in the Helo and Jets area that I was both unable to get too but would've complicated matters during the 2011/2012 campaign as well. The Helos & Jets will go in separately as presented Patch Posts as these are both being worked now for the 2012/2013 Campaign after this thread is addressed the APC one will be the last one caught up to date of saved materials. Some refs starting with the below will be reused to support others by their nature of reporting. The game face is almost on...again.

1) Algeria you've seen this ref in the MBT Thread the focus here is on the S-300 PMU2 which is the improved export version. System and transport info provided as well.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/february_2012_new_army_military_defence_industry/algeria_will_buy_120_additional_t-90_main_battle_tanks_to_russia_1802122.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/s-300_variants_sol_air_missile_system_russia_uk/s-300pmu2_s-300_pmu2_sa-20b_gargoyle_b_surface_to_air_defense_missile_syst em_technical_data_sheet_uk.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/s-300_variants_sol_air_missile_system_russia_uk/5p85se_s-300_pmu2_s-300pmu2_autonomous_launcher_unit_sa-20b_gargoyle_b_surface_to_air_defense_uk.html
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/algerian-arms-deal-brings-russia-75-billion-gas-market-leverage-02024/
TRACK/ADD.

2) MEADS update successful "over the shoulder" launch. What's the big deal well you'll have to research that yourselves but in the short term that's a significant milestone and not every system is capable of that. Also ref on Command & Control vehicle. No more updates on Poland's interest to get involved with the program as a partner. The U.S., Germany and Italy are committed through the operational testing phase to avoid MAJOR financial penalties.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/34b-development-contract-signed-for-meads-0639/#contracts
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/32689/
TRACK/OOB MODIFY AS NEEDED.

3) Brazil to field improved ASTROS II.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/27262/
TRACK/ADD.

4) Norway to update NASAMS probably to the NASAMS II System look to Finland's unit as submitted in the 2011/2012 Campaign.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/30255/
TRACK/ADD.

5) USA PIM is to ready with first units to be delivered to the Army in late 2013. Have seen nothing to indicate there was a problem in the final test evaluations conducted last fall. Believe OOB date has these available next year. This is a much improved version of the PALADIN, using many of the upgrades from the cancelled NLOS-C Program.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/27392/
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/19209/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/have-guns-will-upgrade-the-m109a6-paladin-pim-partnership-04039/#M109A6-Paladin
TRACK/VERIFY/POSSIBLE OOB MODIFICATION.

6) S. Korea taking a lesson from the Chinese in the area of truck mounting their artillery, in this case a truck mounted advanced
105mm. Apparently they had these in production since 2010. I'm thinking JUN 2011 or JAN 2012. Will need more refs here.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/28569/
ADD.

7) USA AN/TQP 53 CB Range Finder this is for you CB guys (Like me.) Also EQ-36 addressed in second ref.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/32959/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/843M-Adds-12-EQ-36-Radars-ASAP-05006/
MODIFY CB?/PROBALY GOOD AS IS?/FYI

8) Russia S-500 delayed with testing to continue later this year. Fielding in 2017. I can't remember but I thought I saw these
in the OOB, if so the date will need to be changed. We ran into this with a mod I submitted 2 years ago with the S-400 now fixed I believe.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/february_2012_new_army_military_defence_industry/delivery_of_new_russian_almaz-antey_s-500_air_defense_missile_system_delayed_unitil_2017 _0802121.html
VERIFY OOB/TRACK/FYI.

9) Chinese to build new SH-1 for Pakistan, this is a truck mounted SP 155mm, they recieved them in 2009 but I don't believe these to be in the OOB.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/china_chinese_army_artillery_vehicles_systems_uk/sh1_wheeled_self-propelled_howitzer_155mm_technical_data_sheet_spec ifications_description_pictures.html
VERIFY OOB/ADD/FYI.

10) Why? Two reasons 1. I thought somebody(s) were doing work in this area. 2) Outside of this ref, I'm seeing interest by other countries to import this system.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/georgia_georgian_army_artillery_vehicles_systems_u/new_georgian_georgia_122mm_mrls_multiple_rocket_la uncher_system_data_sheet_specifications_pictures_. html
FYI/TRACK.
Pic: 11756

11) N. Korean M-1991. With N. Korea when you get worthwhile weapons info you post it, some of us get major headaches dealing with all their "what ifs" when it comes to weapons.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/north_korea_korean_army_artillery_vehicles_systems/m-1991_juche_100_mrls_240mm_multiple_rocket_launcher _system_data_sheet_specifications_pictures_video.h tml
FYI.

12) IDF looking for MRLS.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2934:israel-artillery-corps-mulls-guided-rockets-as-m109-replacement&catid=3:asia&Itemid=56
TRACK/FYI.

13) Japan and UK to work on a new joint venture 155mm type.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/march_2012_new_army_military_defence_industry/japan_is_planning_to_jointly_develop_new_155mm_how itzer_with_british_defence_industry_0503124.html
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2966:japan-uk-to-explore-155mm-artillery-development&catid=3:asia&Itemid=56
TRACK/FYI.

14) Peru AGAIN if you've been following the other new thread posts of the last week. I'll combine these system refs to save time.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3001:peru-army-seeks-mrls&catid=35:latin-america&Itemid=58
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3030:peru-rafael-bumar-northrop-awarded-140m-air-defense-tender&catid=35:latin-america&Itemid=58
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Perus-Next-Generation-Air-Defenses-07339/
TRACK/ADD.

15) Philipines looking to update SAM units.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2988:philippines-sam-sought-&catid=3:asia&Itemid=56
TRACK/ADD.

16) Poland to improve S-125 SC NEWA Systems.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2980:poland-af-to-upgrade-s-125-sam-batteries&catid=1:europe&Itemid=57
http://www.armyrecognition.com/march_2012_new_army_military_defence_industry/poland_s_ministry_of_defense_announced_a_plan_to_m odernize_missile_system_s-125_sc_newa_0703122.html
TRACK/FYI

17) Taiwan to have their PATRIOTs upgraded from PAC-2 to the PAC-3 this is a major upgrade in overall performance.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/december_2011_army_military_defence_news_uk/raytheon_awarded_685.7_million_for_new_missile_pat riot_systems_for_taiwan_army_1912115.html
TRACK/ADD.

18) S. Korea to field in 2013 the CHEONGUNG M-SAM.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/december_2011_army_military_defence_news_uk/south_korea_unveils_a_new_medium-range_surface-to-air_missile_the_cheongung_m-sam_2212111.html
ADD.
Pic: 11757

19) Taiwan has unveiled the fact that the RT-2000 MRLS is in serial production, at the time of this ref there was alot of concerns over Chinas intentions in the waters in there area. This weapon would qualify as an on map system as stated in the article as a part of it's mission capability.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2708:taiwan-rt-2000-multi-barreled-rocket-system-unveiled-&catid=3:asia&Itemid=56
ADD.
Pic: 11758

20) USA uses the M11330E1 105mm Arty round.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/november_2011_news_defense_army_military_industry/u.s._army_uses_new_artillery_ammunition_m1130e1_co mbines_four_artillery_cartridges_into_one_1611113. html
ADD.

All pictures shown are from the refs presented with the topic.

Well there you have it. Wouldn't want you to think I was just sitting on my "donkey' all this time. Hope you all have a great start to the week, it's off to the zoo with the "GD" and CINCLANTHOME later today. Lifes rough sometimes! ;)

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

It's a good night for some house cleaning.

1. A belated Happy 25th to the SAF G6 still one of the most advanced SP systems out there and a long time leader in the "range game".
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/article/article_2406.html
FYI.

2. BAE wins a contract modifications for the M109A6 PIM and I'll need to check for a fielding date modification.
http://www.army-technology.com/news/newsbae-wins-contract-modification-for-us-armys-pim-programme/
VERIFY DATES.

3. Want to develop your own artillery? Well do what the Kalyani Group in India has done by buying the gun, then buying the factory that made it and finally move the factory brick by brick from Austria to India.
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2012/03/defexpo-2012-kalyani-group-artillery-to.html
FYI.

4. USA buying the latest CB Fire Radar systems. I think this more as an FYI issue vs a game issue. Though I've been involved in many arty issues I feel in this area no further changes need to be asked for or made within the game concerning this issue. This is more about understanding how things work.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/34966/
FYI.

5. Chile to upgrade it's M109A5 with work being done in the U.S. Read para three for the upgrades due to be completed in 10/2013.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/28431/
MODIFY UNITS.

6. A think tanks thoughts on MEADS and the USA.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/34675/
FYI.

7. S. K orean company partners up w/L&T of India in a joint tender to produce Indias SP 155mm. Note the picture.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3074:india-korean-samsung-to-compete-in-upcoming-sp-155mm-tender&catid=3:asia&Itemid=56
http://www.armyrecognition.com/april_2012_new_army_military_defence_industry/south_korean_samsung_k9_155mm_self-propelled_howitzer_bid_for_artillery_program_in_in dia_0304121.html
TRACK.

8. It's nice to have money in a story related to the above.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2967:india-new-artillery-from-ofb&catid=3:asia&Itemid=56
FYI.

9. Italy wants the U.S. to maintain it's commitment to MEADS.
http://www.defensenews.com/article/20120430/DEFREG02/304300011/Italian-Defense-Minister-U-S-Respect-MEADS-Commitment?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE
FYI.

10. Morocco fields the M109A5 from the U.S.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3050:morocco-army-incepts-m109a5-155mm&catid=36:africa&Itemid=55
ADD.

11. The new PATRIOT GEM-T missile has successfuly intercepted a target in a high density enviroment.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/march_2012_new_army_military_defence_industry/raytheons_first_new-production_patriot_surface-to-air_missile_system_debuts_successful_flight_test.h tml
TRACK.

12. Russia sucessfully tests a new thermobaric rocket for the TOS-1 which entered service in late 2000. Don't know if there's a date issue or not for the game concerning TOS-1.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/april_2012_new_army_military_defence_industry/russia_has_tested_new_thermobaric_rocket_for_tos-1_tos-1a_220mm_multiple_launch_rocket_1104122.html
VERIFY DATE AND FYI.

13. Russia pulls SMERCH from Indonesias MRLS tender.
http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120502/173165458.html
FYI.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Moving this up for current helo discussion concerning helo armor and there will be much work here hopefully for the next Patch. LAV-AD will be discussed in the other thread.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well the timing works in getting this to it's home page if you will from last patch (The Aussies have it now-Thanks Don.) and helping a learned colleague out here at the same time. Seems the M777 155mm needs some clarification concerning the USMC and the USA.
1. The term M777 is only generic to the system in general. It is an Army run program. The system in reality needs to be thought of as the M777A1 and the M777A2. The M777 should be considered probably the best and most advanced LW (Or other.) towed 155mm out there. Also of note the crew size is 8 with a minimum of five that can still maintain an ROF of I believe it was 2 Rounds per minute.
What made the M777A1 so advanced was the mounted onboard "black boxes" you'll clearly see on the left side of the barrel in the picture below. It's a FCS that's GPS based with a very advanced C4 package that's fully satellite supported and allows for targeting data from ground/air and satellites. For the M777A1 I would recommend the following dates at this point for both services. The USA 10/2006 - 12/2008/USMC 06/2005 - 12/2008. I based the end date on the following data; of the 495 systems ordered by both services 400 M777A1 systems were upgraded by 08/2008. For the last 95 systems this is WELL within the "swag" of six months that Don and I have had to use on rare occasions when no good hard dates are available.

To prevent any heart attacks out there; it was identified that the need was greatest for the CORPS in updating their M198 155mm pieces first as one of the considerations involved in who got it first.

Concerning the M777A2 the difference here is that with the development of advanced precision guided munitions that which ended up to be the EXCALIBUR precision guided round (That was used extensively in Afghanistan from March 2008 by both services.) the software package needed to be upgraded which improved also all the features noted for the M777A1 suite. This also included some minor hardware upgrades as well. This is what "makes" and allows the M777A2 to fire these type of advanced rounds. Full material release for both services occurred in 07/2007 and allowing for initial installation, I would recommend the following dates at this point for both services. The USA/USMC 10/2007 - 12/2020. I would recommend reading the PM 4 info below as it ties in with this discussion in greater detail on system equipment components.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/ufh/
http://www.defenseinnovationmarketplace.mil/resources/USMCConceptsPrograms2013.pdf
Section 4 FIRE SUPPORT PAGE 101/ALSO SEE PAGES 67-75 FOR OTHER INFO OF USE.
For the CORPS:
12974

Bottomline: USA/USMA are all in on the M777A2. ADF info below makes for good reading as well.

PM4. AUSTRALIA/ADD/JUL 2011/C8/M777A2 155mm w/Rockwell FIRESTORM DTCS/AMMO XM1156 GPS FUZE KITS (EXCALIBUR) and DIEHL/RHEINMETALL SMArt 155 AT Rds//
This much like the LAND 106 (M113AS3/4) the LAND 17 (Artillery Replacement Program) was also plagued by numerous delays. The purpose of the program was to retire the 105mm M2A2, L119 HAMEL 105mm FG and M198 155mm (Addressed below). This weapon is considered in the “ultra-light weight” category. The A2 is the newest version of the piece. Also the system is so user friendly that it can be operated by a crew of 5 though, as noted above 8 is the standard crew for all users of the M777. The FIRESTORM DTCS (Digital Terminal Control System) will allow for instant targeting coordination that will include a tablet PC, a laser range finder, a laser target designator, a real-time video downlink receiver, a manpack radio, and the firm’s Defense Advanced GPS Receiver (DAGR).
Both the USA and USMC have already been equipped with the FIRESTORM DTCS package for their M777 pieces. It should be pointed out at this juncture that there are only two versions of the M777 as taken from Ref 1 as follows; “The systems fitted with the digital fire control system are designated M777A1, and those with the software update which allows the firing of the Excalibur projectile, M777A2. M777A2 received full material release in July 2007, clearing the upgrade for fielding. All M777A1 systems will be upgraded to the A2 standard.” This is in reference the U.S. so changes need to be made to both the USA and USMC OOB’s (Ref 2) and possibly Canada as well. The ADF site (Ref 1) no longer shows any other artillery being used in active service. The LAND 17 Phase 2 (Or 1C.) part of the program was also delayed and finally cut due to budget issues in May 2012. This program was to chose an SPA option for the ADF. The Australian 105mm has been retired, the L119 HAMEL 105mm has a battery on active service at their Artillery School and there are indications they along with the M198 155mm are in service with the Australian reserve forces. I have feelers out for information in Australia at this time so this and the above issues can wait until next year.
http://www.army.gov.au/Our-work/Equi.../M777-Howitzer
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/ufh/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...goahead-01928/
http://www.armyrecognition.com/june_...s_0606122.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/octob...2_1610122.html
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...tillery-03911/
http://www.military-today.com/trucks/mack_mc3.htm
Refer to the #15 Australian OOB Queries Thread by TDR for further info if desired in Posts 6, 12 and 15.
Pics for Game UNIT Picture from ADF files:
12975 12976
12977

Some of us have to get our beauty sleep before work (Sorry forgot there's not enough time in the Universe to help me with that :shock:!!!!) so good night.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

My Ref. 1 from PM4 in my last should read Ref. 2 the clock ran out on my editing it for this Thread. However I did repost the ref under my discussion of the M777 in regards to the USA/USMC as well-hey it's Ref. 1 there!?!.

Sorry any confusion but it is late. Sounded good at the moment anyway. Gotta hit the rack.

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

The two major questions are:
1) The current M777 (presumably A1) has an Accuracy of 10. What's the Accuracy of the A2/Excalibur?
2) Will the USA/USMC will use up their existing stocks of 155mm ammo and then use Excalibur rounds exclusively? If not the M777A2 should be a new unit available apx. 07/2008 and the existing M777A1 units should remain in the OOBs.

##############################
Excalibur was developed as a longer-ranged alternative to conventional artillery shells, with GPS guidance for improved accuracy. Excalibur has a range of approximately 40 to 57 kilometres (25 to 35 mi) depending on configuration, with a circular error probable (CEP) of around 5 metres (16 ft) to 20 metres (66 ft). The extended range is achieved through the use of folding glide fins, which allow the projectile to glide from the top of a ballistic arc towards the target.
Initial combat experience with Excalibur in Iraq in the summer of 2007 was highly successful, with 92% of rounds falling within 4 metres (13 ft) of the target. Its performance was so impressive that the U.S. Army planned to increase production to 150 rounds per month from the previous 18 rounds per month.

http://sill-www.army.mil/firesbulletin/2008/oct_dec_2008/oct_dec_2008_pages_14_15.pdf

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

First I mean NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE FOR MY TONE ON PARTS OF THIS, BELOW IS AS MUCH EXPLANATION AS I'LL OFFER...

I have to be brief as I came home to stand tall before CINCLANTHOME, so basically we've had some SERIOUS scares around here for over a year now, I've been asked to do what others are doing now and that means to catch our breath a little as we still face a couple of challenges ahead of us. I really need to limit my time out here and I can't spend much more time on this issue because the world keeps spinning around. Sorry that's all I can say publicly or in private. But the word of the day is "DOGHOUSE". I leave it to you to figure out the phrase the word can be used in. So let's get this done-please!

I stick by my Post above #43 a 100%. M777 is a generic term for the system like ABRAMS is for the MBT. The accuracy conversions as I've indicated in the past I have no clue about and quite frankly I have no interest in. I can only report and care about the raw data and the numbers derived from that research in real world terms. If I was that smart I'd be designing games myself and then God help us all!?! I leave that to you folks and I thank everyone that can do that out here in the forum. I do care about if it works/looks right in the game, that's where I make the connection of data vs. the game.

1. Dates given for the M777A1 & M777A2 are as good as I can give from the refs. And to be absolutely clear the army-technology site represents a composite formed from other refs in the "harder" dates I provided.

2. I will provide refs below that will show an accuracy to average 1.6 meters with 35 rounds fired at targets at various ranges. You will be in a data rich environment when you look at them. Those numbers are derived from op evals and combat sources.

3. This is where I got frustrated-I thought I clearly stated why the M777A2 package was developed, so that it can fire precision munitions in this case EXCALIBUR. I also noted that the side benefit was increased accuracy overall of the system/M777A2.

4. Conventional rounds are going the way of the dinosaur, almost 800 rounds of EXCALIBUR have been fired in theatre. We are on the third/or fourth upgrade in the field of EXCALIBUR at this time. To be clear the M777A2 can fire both conventional and precision rounds. EXCALIBUR is already in full rate production.

5. EXCALIBUR vs. Conventional rounds provided below are ratios of shells required to hit targets at various ranges. The range/ratio fall between 1:10 to 1:80 rounds or more. It is much cheaper at these ratios and causes much less collateral damage to use EXCALIBUR, as this was a chief complaint from the Afghan government concerning our operations there in using conventional munitions of all types. This again from the Army ref. which covers this in an easy format.

6. The M777A1 is no more. I will offer this ref from my last post again from the USMC. It should be noted nowhere does it mention the M777A1 it's all about the M777A2 Ref is from 2013. Again start on Page 106 for this discussion.
http://www.defenseinnovationmarketplace.mil/resources/USMCConceptsPrograms2013.pdf

The numbers stuff...
From Raytheon:
http://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/excalibur/
http://raytheon.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=2517

From the ARMY of interest focus on all but, especially Slides 7 and 9:
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2012annual_psr/Milner.pdf


In the field already (EXCALIBUR 1b) and with U2 providing the music how can you go wrong-feelin better already!! Please note the target distances in the upper right corner of the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNCUeItvovs

CINCLANTHOME says I need more sleep before work and since I'm in a weapons environment I'll just say she's right and good night!!

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Pat. Take all the time you need. The forum is a distant secondary at best. We are on a hiatus and game development is on HOLD until we are not and I don't see that happening for awhile.

Take a break from this and deal with what's important. Staying up to the wee hours to report on game issues and losing sleep in the process is just not worth it. It's just a game


Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

To be clear "There is no crying in baseball." that applied to my career on submarines, my current job and the people there who have my back and me their's and this forum in general. However, reflecting back on some of my posts over the last several months, there comes a time to do the right thing and that time is now for this instance. You see Suhiir asked for my opinion, advice and recommendations for issues concerning the CORPS (A scary proposition in it's own right, I mean cmon it's that whole NAVY vs marine thing-oops should've made that all caps as well!?!) I could've politely bowed out but said I would be glad to help. So Suhiir please accept my apologies. If you will allow it, I would be glad to finish what we started.
Don you are correct in your assessment, CINCLANTHOME and I have been through a lot (Right from the start married, pregnant 2 months later (That Dec. evening a couple of weeks before Christmas she tells me the great news and I respond like everyone husband would by saying... "How did that happen!?!" absolutely true! :D) six weeks later I'm deploying (My avatar picture.) for seven months to the North Atlantic and Med to play underwater tag and hide n seek with the Soviets. That command was very special to us even though I was deployed 89% of the time over four+ years. And we're still hanging in there almost 28yrs. later. This is who I am and I'm a little adrift from that person now-thank you Don again your right.
After I tidy up a bit around here, I think it's time not to turn out the lights but dim them down somewhat.

Regards,
Pat

P.S. Oh never mind but, rest assured when all the lights come back on, the room won't be empty! ;)

[Suhiir]

We all "have our moments".
Somewhere behind the facade of "guru" there lurks a real person.
Well...I think Don is real...you can never be sure about a Canuck.

As to my questions you did answer #2 pretty thoroughly.
I sort of assumed they'd probably go exclusively Excalibur but one can never be sure when politicians are involved.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

This next provides a situational update on Ukraine as well and more importantly weapons/ammo load data on the TOS-1 and TOS-1A that we might not have. Note the picture at the bottom of a post launch from a TOS-1A (Which is in the foreground slightly off center to the right of the picture,) I see it as a two rocket launch and very nasty.

From the article...
"The TOS-1 is often referred to by Russia as a heavy flamethrower, although it actually fires short-range (3,500 m) 220mm rockets armed with thermobaric warheads. The TOS-1 is based on a T-72 main battle tank (MBT) chassis and can mount 30 missiles. An upgraded version, the TOS-1A, features an improved rocket with an extended range out to 6,000 m and mounts 24 missiles."

The ref...
http://www.janes.com/article/48685/russian-tos-1-and-pantsyr-s1-systems-reported-in-east-ukraine

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Pat......... that is more or less exactly what is in the OOB's now.....missile count AND range except we call the latest version the TOS-1M but I need to sort out why we have 4 versions when it looks like 2 would do.

This shows them in a demonstration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IiPuzj1OXA

and claims they will be sold to Syria

[DRG]

and it appears they are showing up in Iraq as well

http://www.janes.com/article/41343/iraq-focuses-on-swift-delivery-of-russian-weaponry

If I were the Jordanians, I'd want a few of these as well....payback can be a real b*itch


Iraqi soldiers learning how to re-load a TOS

http://www.chinanews.com/tp/hd2011/2014/10-16/422119.shtml

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13452&stc=1&d=1423176134

[DRG]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13455&stc=1&d=1423180490

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
Read the bottom para first before you start on this-please!
TY-Pat

Don,
I agree I know of only those two versions as well, which is good for the Russian slot situation, hey two is a victory in that area. I like my boys from the Ukraine (1st Ref.) but the French (2nd ref.) are really good. The issue here is that the Ukrainians are saying the TOS-1 was not accepted into the Russian Army whereas the French said it was which was always my understanding. I recommend delete whatever those other units are and keep the below in until we have time to sort out TOS-1 as option 1. However there is an option 2 to consider based on the below video ref. and write up, which is to lock out the TOS-1.
As to Iraq and Syria (Though it is conjecture as to whether Syria has TOS-1 (I am not ready myself to give it to them.)) these were on my work list the deals also included the PANSYTR System as well for both. I'll give you what I have below.

TOS-1 Data comparison...
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/tos1.htm
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_russian_army_vehicles_system_artillery_uk/tos-1_tos-1a_buratino_heavy_flame_thrower_220mm_rocket_launc her_technical_data_sheet_specifications_.html

TOS-1A Data comparison...
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/tos_1a.htm
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_russian_army_vehicles_system_artillery_uk/tos-1a_bm-1_soltsepek_heavy_flamethrower_armoured_vehicle_te chnical_data_sheet_specifications_.html

As we have been down this road before the following will show a short video of a Russian exercise involving the TOS-1. Reminiscent of the North Korean tank situation from the MBT Thread, you might remember some of that was addressed when I counted the "road wheels" of the tanks. Now watch the below video pause it at the launcher, count the tubes,unless I'm really tired I got 24 tubes. Everyone is agreeing that the TOS-1 has 30 tubes, so the video labeled TOS-1 is really showing the TOS-1A with 24 tubes. Also your Iraqi picture shows you got it...24 tubes.
You gotta love life!
http://www.military.com/video/ammunition-and-explosives/flamethrowers/russian-tos-1-flamethrower-system/1277144437001/

Iraq and Syria ...
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/baby-come-back-iraq-is-buying-russian-weapons-again-07571/
(As this article shows I have work in this area under the Contract section look to 10/14.)
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/syria-buying-mig31s-mig35s-for-1-billion-03391/


Other issues on my list for Iraq and Syria
http://www.janes.com/article/47826/dempsey-describes-iran-s-involvement-in-iraq-as-positive
http://www.janes.com/article/47872/iraq-receives-bulgarian-d-20-guns

I need too hit the rack, for Russia Option 1 would be the easiest to deal with not knowing how much you're putting on yourself and what your timeline is. Besides I'm going to throw you two "softballs" over the next two days.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Iraq and Syria ...
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/baby-come-back-iraq-is-buying-russian-weapons-again-07571/
(As this article shows I have work in this area under the Contract section look to 10/14.)
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/syria-buying-mig31s-mig35s-for-1-billion-03391/


Other issues on my list for Iraq and Syria
http://www.janes.com/article/47826/dempsey-describes-iran-s-involvement-in-iraq-as-positive
http://www.janes.com/article/47872/iraq-receives-bulgarian-d-20-guns

Regards,
Pat
:capt:


There may be earlier links but this one (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=679_1371599777) is dated June 2013 and contains false information like the range of the TOS is 60km ( that added zero makes a big difference but that's corrected later in the article ) but what's "interesting" is this goes back to "pre ISIS" days when Assad was the worlds boogyman and Russia was supporting him when most everyone else wanted him gone.( then the middle east would be in peace and harmony:doh:)...... now the weapons are starting to show up and ISIS has shown itself to be unsupportable ( and nobody says anything about Assad anymore ) and suddenly this all seems like a pretty good idea

[DRG]

........and "just for fun" lets try to nail the dates down for this thing. We have it starting 1981..... I have NO idea where that date came from but it's never been questioned.....until I started digging today

THIS LINK (http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product1246.html) ( Army guide from France ) claims


It is understood that the TOS-1 'Fighting Vehicle' 220 mm (30-round) rocket system was developed by the GUP Design Bureau of Transport Machine Building based in Omsk in the late 1980s and subsequently fielded in small numbers in the early 1990s.
Until I find better info "early 1990s" is going to be 1993. What I don't know is when that article was written. It also suggests there is a prototype of a 122 mm version of TOS with 70 tubes but I'm going to leave that one alone for now

but THIS (http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/documents/fuelair/fuelair.htm) claims ( first appeared in August 2000 issue of Marine Corps Gazette )


It was first combat-tested in Afghanistan's Panjshir valley in the early 1980s
That was written August 2000

so it could have been tested in the early 80's..... or the early 90's but for certain it could not have been "combat-tested in Afghanistan's Panjshir valley " in the "early 90's. If ANYONE has better info on this please let us know and if anyone sees any recent photos of the original 30 rocket version let me know. I suspect that is no longer in service but it's uncertain ATM

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The very first ref. Military-Today does support the USMC Gazette claim that the TOS-1 did see combat in Afghanistan as well. The year I've seen most consistently for developmental start was 1981. As Russia is not India (Again 30+ years to get to the ARJUN MBT.) they could get a system like this tested and in the field within 5 yrs. because they already had identified and did not have to develop a launch platform by using the T-72. If you go with the Afghanistan situation I would recommend a date of 6/86 this would allow 5-5.5yrs. to develop the launcher, rocket and modify the readily available T-72 hulls for turret removal, modification of the FCS and reconfiguration of the turret opening to mount the launcher. Very doable for only 24-30 platforms. Or as your planning leave it alone as CHECHNYA is the common thread for all the refs we have concerning it's combat background. I had to give you the first option as you would understand for AFGHANISTAN since they didn't leave there until around May 1989(?) I believe.

I need to grab something to eat and get ready for work.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
I did as deep a search as possible and this ties into the immediate last post.
TOS-1: I gave the option of 6/86 I have found ONLY one ref that offers any specific date and that only a year from the first ref below "IOC 1985" a couple of these are Russian and support the Afghanistan combat role one says this was in 1989 (Second ref. note: it shows a TOS-1A video BUT the write is for the TOS-1.) and that's it, I didn't read the USMC Gazette to see if they even gave that much.
http://www.deagel.com/Multiple-Launch-Rocket-Systems/TOS-1-Buratino_a002564001.aspx
https://russianmilitaryphotos.wordpress.com/2011/11/28/tos-1a-heavy-flamethrower-system-in-action-at-the-shikhani-testing-grounds/
http://tanknutdave.com/the-russian-tos-1-mlrs/

TOS-1A: Here 2001 is the consensus year. However the ref gives a specific date of 04 April 2001 as an in service date.
http://tonnel-ufo.ru/eanglish/weapon/heavy-flamethrower-system-tos-1a.php

I REALLY GOTTA FLY NOW!!

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

SOFTBALL #1...
In my last post I came across a ref concerning the TOS-1A having been delivered to Iraq in July. I thought I bookmarked it however, I did not so, to close the loop here, I give you the following...
I recommend that Oct. 2014 be the field date for the TOS-1A based on the late July 2014 delivery date and to allow for training. I believe the pictures you posted came from the first ref. the training time is reasonable considering the Iraqi Army is very familiar with the T-72 tank. The FCS is more of a direct fire system aided by a day/night (TI) optical sight with LRF again not a technical hurdle for them to overcome. The only time consuming issue I really is in learning to reload and use the launcher (As they already use similar systems.) specific to the TOS-1A.
http://www.janes.com/article/41343/iraq-focuses-on-swift-delivery-of-russian-weaponry

Please note dated posted on the following (This is a legitimate site designed to serve current active, reserve, veteran and retired military in the U.S.)
http://www.military.com/video/rockets/rocket-launchers/iraqi-army-fires-tos-1a-rocket-launcher/3846081544001/

And if your feeling really frogging...
JANE'S was right on top of this concerning the Iraqis having been equipped with the Iranian HM-20 MRL as pictured. I have not verified that this is even in the Iranian OOB. I have a handful of equipment issues to deal with concerning Iran, they've been busy this past year. If not, as you can see it's on my list to do already.
http://www.janes.com/article/47826/dempsey-describes-iran-s-involvement-in-iraq-as-positive

Since in these refs there has been discussion of the Su-25, Iraq does have and is getting more of them however, there is no info to support that they are being used at this time. This is a new aircraft for them thus the Russians (Yes they're there and yes we paid for some of this equipment as well.) are training them to fly and maintain them.

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Oct 2014 works for me

[dmnt]

Out of the blue Finns present the improved SPAA Marksman upgrade:

Remember how the T-55 hull Marksman SPAA ItPsv 2010 upgrade was cancelled (and removed from OOB) after prototype and the Marksman pulled from training altogether in 2010? All of sudden FDF announces that they have accepted the new prototype and that is built on Leopard 2A4 hull! (Source: Panssari-lehti 1/2015: http://www.panssarikilta.fi/Lehti/)

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I'm going to introduce a new ref here that focuses on Europe and especially Poland but still manages to maintain a world view. I've waited for a while to see how they did against their contemporaries I've used for years to include JANE'S. We'll benefit from the added content, I hope they'll be useful and you enjoy their work. Same applies as posted in the Jets Thread.

1. Poland and the KRAB 155mm SPA along with rechecking the issue concerning the South Korean THUNDER and Turkeys T-155 FIRTINA. That the KRAB will need some rework in the Polish OOB I don't doubt, however, I hope about the other two it'll be more of a verification process (:rolleyes:) though along with the K2 MBT, South Korea has had issues with the "THUNDER" as well. Below is an excerpt taken from the ref below it. The emboldening is mine.
"Despite the fact that the license for manufacturing the Turrets for the Krab howitzers has been purchased back in 1999, ever since then the Polish Army has received only 8 vehicles, most of which faced defects in the chassis. MoD Secretary of State, Czesław Mroczek, claimed that he will not tolerate any further delays in the Krab programme. The issue has been thoroughly analysed by Defence24.pl."
http://www.defence24.com/analysis_krab-howitzers-to-get-korean-chassis-pgz-decision-ends-the-crisis

2. LEBANON will keep me busy in the APC area as well but since we're here, CAESAR has come back again to the region...
http://www.janes.com/article/49274/idex-2015-lebanon-to-receive-24-caesar-systems

3. CHILE gets 12 M109A5 155mm SPA units...
http://www.armyrecognition.com/february_2015_global_defense_security_news_uk/chile_s_armed_forces_receive_12_m-109a5_paladin_155mm_self-propelled_howitzers.html

4. When INDIA gets their "**** in one sock" they can develop very advanced systems case in point the AKASH SPAA platform...
http://www.armyrecognition.com/february_2015_global_defense_security_news_uk/indian_military_to_be_strengthened_with_six_new_sq uadrons_of_akash_air_defense_missile_systems.html

5. UK orders FLAADS SPAA using the highly successful CAMM Missile (Land version) that was originally developed for use by the RN...
http://www.janes.com/article/47936/uk-orders-next-generation-air-defence-system-from-mbda

6. IRAQ has received the BULGARIAN D-20 152mm as well as Russian artillery. I believe Don will enter the TOS-1A when they (Andy) decide they are ready to do so. So as I pointed out on one of the items from the JET Thread last night there's again "news within the news" with this ref...
http://www.janes.com/article/47872/iraq-receives-bulgarian-d-20-guns

7. INDIA again this time has started to field an upgraded version of the ZSU-23-4 Schilka, hopefully the Russian OOB might provide something I can refer to if not well it won't be the first time we reinvented the wheel...
http://www.army-technology.com/news/newsindian-army-receives-first-upgraded-schilka-air-defence-system-from-bel-4451712

That should do it for now here, so good night!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[PvtJoker]

7. INDIA again this time has started to field an upgraded version of the ZSU-23-4 Schilka, hopefully the Russian OOB might provide something I can refer to if not well it won't be the first time we reinvented the wheel...
http://www.army-technology.com/news/newsindian-army-receives-first-upgraded-schilka-air-defence-system-from-bel-4451712


It appears to be a locally designed upgrade instead of any of the Russian upgrades. New radar and digital FC.

The addition of an electro-optical system that can operate in parallel with the radar enables accurate identification, acquisition and tracking of targets while operating in an electronic countermeasure environment.

That probably means that it has a laser rangefinder and TV camera with a thermal channel for tracking the targets without radar, even if they are not mentioned explicitly. It could also have an IRST system, but that is less certain. In any case, a daylight only optical system would make little sense in 2015.

[dmnt]

More on Marksman, quick notes:
Training conscripts restarts after ~10 years, upgraded Marksman AA training will start in 2016 using Leopard 2 platform. Apparently the 2010 upgrades have been done but no specifics at this point.

Also SP artillery to be modernized but unspecified whether this will mean buying PzH 2000s or modernizing the existing soviet era stuff.

So 2016 will see a lot of new stuff rolled down to the conscripts.

[DRG]

5. UK orders FLAADS SPAA using the highly successful CAMM Missile (Land version) that was originally developed for use by the RN...
http://www.janes.com/article/47936/uk-orders-next-generation-air-defence-system-from-mbda



QUOTE--
According to the MoD FLAAD Land should be ready for entry into service at "the end of the decade". This should allow for a smooth change over with the retirement of the Rapier, scheduled to begin in 2020


It's a safe bet this is not going to meet the 2020 "deadline"

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Agree about the FLAAD for UK some of this was meant as just the "news" but worth tracking should the dates slip more into the favor of the current games time period. But this would be useful too anyone who tries to do a post 2020 game.

About India's upgrade of the ZSU-23-4 Schilka, I did use the words "I can refer to..." it makes Don's life a lot easier if I can find if you will a "baseline" unit from which to work from since, we will never truly know the full extent of or the technical issues involved in many of the upgrades involved on a certain piece of equipment so history helps. In this case a Russian upgraded unit of the same type provides us with that "baseline" from which when I submit this Indian ZSU-23-4 Schilka it'll be easier to address any further enhancements to said unit within acceptable game parameters.

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

It's already been adjusted. I have no doubt that unit 52 in that OOB that show(ed) an upgrade in 2011 * co-incidentally when this project was announced... was entered to represent this upgrade which I have adjusted for date and capabilities

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
Thanks! One less item to worry about however, it's ashamed it had to be a fairly easy one! ;)

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
Is this an easy one or should I just keep it on my list? Organizing my bookmarks in MOZILLA to transfer them from old PC > flash drive > my new PC.

Brazil/ASTROS/UNITS 180-182/Issue Battery size/see quote from and ref below.

"A full ASTROS system includes 1 wheeled 4×4 Battalion level Command Vehicle (AV-VCC), which commands 3 batteries, and a series of 6×6 wheeled vehicles. Each battery consists of:
1 4×4 Battery-level Command vehicle (AV-PCC)
1 Fire Control vehicle (AV-UCF)
6 Rocket launchers (AV-LMU)
6 Ammunition resupply vehicles (AV-RMD)
1 Recovery vehicle (AV-OFVE)
1 4×4 Mobile weather station (AV-MET). Ambient and active weather affect artillery."

This is very possible, but, unless I'm missing something here, I believe UNITS 180-183 are only showing 3 Launchers.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/astros-2020-brazil-moves-to-revive-avibras-07069/

One WORLD/One OOB.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

You are correct, those units represent 3 launchers

Those units should be called sections and the formations doubled to put two sections in a Battery . Formation 201 is named correctly but needs another section and Formation 200 needs 6 sections total

now corrected

Thanks

Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Not there yet but, certainly bears watching...
http://www.janes.com/article/57074/the-islamic-state-s-improvised-sam

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well I took some "heat" for submitting this unit back 2011 because some felt it was redundant to the Russian "SMERCH" however, as I've mentioned we're at a point (and beyond) that if we don't start typing units down to their nomenclature we're going to have a difficult time in tracking when units go away and or get improved. Let's take the ABRAMS for example, if we just listed all the current ABRAMS tanks in the USA/USMC OOB's as ABRAMS can you imagine trying to figure which are no longer in service or have been modified? Dates alone cannot tell you the whole story as variants tend to overlap each other-as with the ABRAMS. We do an excellent job with armor and better then average with the rest however, this game is transitioning to either a straight calendar end date extension or some kind've "partitioning" to the new end date, doesn't matter the point being is proper designation of units will ensure the right ones carry on past 2020. Including units that might be redundant. The TORNADO-S was entered as submitted - thank you Don - and the GRAD & SMERCH units in the Russian Army are still on track to be removed from active service in 2020. Russia has just replaced over 40 more Russia rocket artillery units with the TORNADO-S and one more below.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/january_2016_global_defense_security_news_industry/over_40_rocket_launcher_units_of_russian_army_will _be_equipped_with_new_tornado-s_300mm_mlrs_11701163.html
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/9a52_4.htm THIS IS A
EARLY UNIT.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_russian_army_vehicles_system_artillery_uk/tornado_cv_9a52-4_mrls_multiple_rocket_launcher_system_data_sheet_ specifications_information.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcRSW_Djq5Q

See Pg. 3 Post #30 APR. 6, 2011 & Pg. 4 Post #35 SEP. 26, 2011 for further info.

Now the following which is in service is designated the TORNADO-G this version apparently was designed to fire their latest anti-armor CM munitions and standard munitions apparently as well. I didn't see it in the OOB, I might've missed it, if so my apologies in advance. However it does further make my point from above.
TORNADO-G/JAN or JUN 2012 (Dates range from 2011 to one I saw that said APR. 2012.)/CREW 2-3/CAB UNARMORED/40 ROCKETS/4x10 LAUNCHER/USE THE CURRENT GRAD/BM-21 ICON NOTE: THE TRUCKS ARE NEWER THEY'LL HAVE SLIGHTLY BETTER CROSS COUNTRY ABILITIES AND SPEED/DESIGNED FOR "SHOOT AND SCOOT" DUE TO NEWER FCS etc./THE REFS INDICATE IT CAN LAUNCH AND CLEAR THE AREA TO 3-4Km BEFORE THE ROCKETS HIT THE GROUND. COULDN'T TELL IF IT'S "ONE AND DONE" SCOOT AND RELOAD OR IF THEY HAVE "RIPPLE LAUNCH" CAPABILITY.
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/tornado_g.htm
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_russian_army_vehicles_system_artillery_uk/tornado-g_122mm_mlrs_multiple_launch_rocket_system_technic al_data_sheet_specifications_pictures.html
http://www.deagel.com/Multiple-Launch-Rocket-Systems/Tornado-G_a002668001.aspx
http://sputniknews.com/military/20150724/1025004996.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

I can save slots simply by renaming the BM-30 Smerch Pl to 300mm MLRS Pl ,in game terms nothing changes but the name and the Tornado-G is simply a Grad with slight improvements that are, in game terms, irrelevant. Even MT says the new one looks like the old one . This is akin to wanting ( for example , I've seen similar requests but this is made up) an AK-74VT added when we already have an AK-74 but the "VT" version is the locally made copy and people are loosing sleep and wringing hands because when they buy an infantry platoon the troops are carrying just plain 74's and furthermore I am not interesting in adding anything new or removing anything old until it's ACTUALLY in or out of the hands of troops. I know it's hard to believe but government plans to do this or that are frequently wrong . I spent a considerable amount of my surgery recovery time building new Icons for the newly announce Russian equipment upgrades and right now I'm planning on putting them in the SHP files but waiting for their actual delivery to troops before putting them into the OOB's , IDK--I'm on the fence about that because introduction dates for things like this just have a bad habit of getting pushed back repeatidy

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

That sounds like a good fix to me and probably means you can delete the TORNADO-S already in the game unless it's somehow better then the SMERCH as entered already game wise. I guess you can do the same with the GRAD/BM-21 units as well to simplify things as well. I already voiced my opinion out here several times about entering new equipment the F-35 is a prime example, which there news it might get pushed back again. Many want the ARMATA but, no one really has one yet either do they? I'll stick to the timeline we've worked with over the years seems to have worked pretty well to this point anyway.

In the Jet/Plane thread you did mean the gunships were gone as well-right? Just so I can clean up my folders if they are.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

off SPAA topic and speaking of things that don't get made........what do you know about the progress and development of the Armored Multi-Purpose Vehicle (AMPV) .. ??? In a fit of madness I built a full range of Icons for this thing ( they look great like the EFVP did....:mad:)

[MarkSheppard]

As of last year, the plan was:

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/show-daily/ausa/2015/03/31/us-army-leaders-make-case-for-baes-ampv/70728052/

The plan is to go to a preliminary design review this summer and a critical design review next summer, with first delivery in late 2016. From there, intermittent tests will lead to the limited user tests in late 2018. The fielding is not going to be complete until the mid-2020s.

The matter of wheeled versus tracked vehicles is not entirely settled, as other studies are ongoing.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

From the USA PEO GCS office the AMPV is to start a 52 month (~4.3yrs.) Engineering and Manufacturing Development (EMD) process by BAE the contract winner. The EMD once completed will turnover 29 vehicles the Army for evaluation. This process should take about 2-3yrs. based on my tracking of these events as in reality we're dealing with a known, though moderately improved platform. Best guess tracking to somewhere out to 2022/2023. The ref. is dated 24 Dec. 2014. Very much falls in line with what Mark just posted as also one of my sources as you know and the others I'm holding in my APC folder.
http://www.peogcs.army.mil/news/ampv/ampv-2014-12-24-ampv-programs-emd-contract-awarded-bae.html
http://www.peogcs.army.mil/ampv.html (Covers models to be built on the bottom of 1st para.)

The home office...
http://www.peogcs.army.mil/index.html

ALSO...since we're at it...

The USMC will see their operational capability with the ACV 1.1 in 2020. This will prove a very hot competition between BAE and SAIC (TERREX 2 8x8) which are both fielding known fully amphibious platforms. It reports had given SAIC an early edge as the TERREX, first seen as a 6x6 platform was the first successful 360 situational awareness APC developed to include an RWS to operate in the same manner. TERREX 1 as it's now referred to was originally developed by TIMOTHY Industries of Ireland. And thought they just made good Beer and Whiskey!?! TERREX (1) was one of my first posts in the APC Thread where I'll re-post this to.
http://news.usni.org/2015/11/24/marine-corps-awards-amphibious-combat-vechicle-1-1-contracts-to-bae-systems-and-saic

I feel like I'm slowly coming back. I hear some of you already!?! :doh: (Used not for it's normal meaning! :p)

Need I say it-yeah, with an addition-CONTINUING TO TRACK.

Two for one not bad Don.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[MarkSheppard]

This is really far out but the US has started to work on the XM907 ERCA 52 caliber Gun-Howitzer with an eye to applying it towards M777 and M109 modernization programs.

http://defense-update.com/20160329_m777er.html

ERCA involves everything from development of an autoloader for the SPH variant, new propellant, and new projectiles with a maximum range of 70~ km.

They already have a mockup of the new gun barrel (which is 6 foot longer than existing ones) on a M777A2 and are moving it around to find out which combination of barrel counterweights will be the most efficient for mobility.

Attached is a CAD model of the M109A7 with the new ERCA gun. At this point...maybe the turn signal lights are original to the 109.

It'll probably be cancelled like every other US Army modernization effort though. :doh:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well I was going to hold on to this for a while but, Mark gave me a good intro to the next. The ref. concerns the new 2S33 MSTA-SM and KOALITSIYA-SV artillery systems that should be game ready by next year or the following year. What's also interesting considering the source, is the what would appear to be a general but, frank overview of the above mentioned world competitors. Take time to note the source. I'm not going to do all the work after all!?! :p Anyway...
http://www.armyrecognition.com/march_2016_global_defense_security_news_industry/russian_army_to_receive_msta-sm_and_koalitsiya-sv_advanced_artillery_systems_tass_52403162.html


Mark yours was interesting but I agree especially after reading this and what I've already read on "PIM", and lets not forget that 19 Trillion Dollar issue here.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Imp]

10 rounds a minute from a 152MM gun that's rapid, wonder how long it could realistically keep that up. The loader would not be the issue I would guess overheating & wrecking the barrel would be the issue.
Then there's the logistics of actually supplying the ammo, they are big shells.

Changing tack a bit I do wonder how much of this stuff will actually make it into mainstream service.
Russia seem to be waving the flag saying look we can still make good stuff.
My guess though with perhaps the exception of the Armata platform most will see a handful to 30 odd produced & assigned somewhere.

[Suhiir]

I recall a "truism" from days as an Intel Weenie:
"The Soviets can make one of anything but can't mass produce a thing."

[blatsas]

hi here i have some more info from greek version of bmp-zu23.
greek army made about 100 vehicle and the rest of bmp1 i thing sold in egypt
http://veteranos.gr/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/DSC_5708.jpghttp://http://www.army.gr/default.php?pname=Article&art_id=90043&cat_id=14

[MarkSheppard]

Chad now apparently operates a license built version of the Chinese PTL-02 Tank Destroyer (Chinese OBAT unit 744) as the WMA301 Assaulter.

http://below-the-turret-ring.blogspot.com/2015/06/china-sells-tank-destroyers-in-africa.html

Differences between it and the PTL-02 in service with the PLA(N) are the use of a 105mm Rifled Gun instead of the Chinese 100mm Type 86 Smoothbore gun.

The WMA301 is already in combat against Boko Haram in some areas of Chad.

[MarkSheppard]

From a brief look at SIPRI:

http://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade/page/trade_register.php

From 2010-2015 China supplied the following weapons to: (very abbreviated version, skipping a *lot* of countries or weapons already in the OBATS):

OBAT050 ALGERIA:
18 x WA-021/Type 88 155mm Towed Gun in 2010.

OBAT062 CHAD:
42 x WMA-301 Assaulter Mentioned Earlier in two batches in 2010 and 2013.

OBAT085 PERU:
27 x Type-90BM 122mm Self Propelled MRL, delivered 2015.

OBAT089 TANZANIA:
10 x PLL-05 120mm SP Mortars delivered 2014.

OBAT054 THAILAND:
18 x WS-1 302mm SP MRL delivered 2011-2013. Desigated "DTi-1" in thai service.
UNK x WS-2 400mm SP MRL delivered 2012. Designated "DTi-1G" in thai service.
4 x SR-4 122mm SP MRL delivered 2013. Designated "PR-50" in Thai Service

[MarkSheppard]

China in 2015 announced that they were to begin retiring their Type 89 / PTZ-89 Tank Destroyers (Unit 513 in chinese OBAT).

Link (http://thediplomat.com/2015/11/china-to-retire-its-armored-tank-destroyers/)

The People’s Liberation Army (PLA) will retire its armada of Type 89 (aka PTZ89) tank destroyers, Asia One reports based on information published in the PLA Daily, the official newspaper of the PLA.

The PLA Daily published a picture of 18 self-propelled guns that look like Type 89 tank destroyers departing a military base of the PLA Shenyang Military Command’s 39th Group Army.

The newspaper said that an official retirement ceremony for the obsolete armored vehicles was held on November 3.

The Type 89 tank destroyer entered the PLA’s service in 1989. From 1989 to 1995 around 100 vehicles were produced. The tank destroyer’s main armament is a 120-mm/L50 smoothbore gun, equipped with a semi-automatic gun loader. Since the gun is not stabilized, the armored vehicle cannot fire accurately on the move.

“With its good mobility and a high automation level, the Type 89 tank destroyer can easily pierce the armor of enemy tanks using a 120-mm smoothbore gun,” according to Senior Colonel Wang Kai, a land armaments expert at the PLA Academy of Armored Forces Engineering in Beijing. However, the gun has a relatively short range, one of the Type 89’s many shortcomings.

With thin armor (less than 50 mm), the Type 89 only provides protection against small arms fire and artillery shell splinters and would not survive a direct artillery hit. In addition, maintenance costs for the weapon are relatively high. Furthermore, the tank destroyer, as the name suggests, can only be used against enemy armored vehicles and not for much else.

The Type 89 was “brought into service by the PLA around the early 1990s to close the loopholes in the PLA’s anti-tank capability that existed in the 1970s and 1980s,” according to Wang.

“Thanks to the past 20 years of modernization, our armored forces have acquired a large number of advanced tanks equipped with large-caliber, powerful guns, which means specialized tank destroyers such as the Type 89 will no longer be needed,” Wang added.

The PLA already concluded in the late 1970s that attack helicopters armed with anti-tank missiles would be the best weapon against large enemy tank formations, a conclusion that was reinforced with the U.S. military’s success during the Gulf War.

Wang acknowledges that “anti-tank missiles and helicopters represent the trend of anti-tank warfare. They can form a three-dimensional anti-tank firepower network.”

The PLA has been slowly building up its arsenal of HJ-10 anti-tank missiles, which, along with the WZ-10 and WZ-19 attack helicopters, are much more effective weapons against tanks in the 21st century. The HJ-10 anti-tank missile is purportedly the equivalent to the U.S.-made AGM-114 Hellfire air-to-surface missile.

Photo attached of retirement ceremony.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well it appears Finland has a surprise for it's neighbor to the east. I suspect a show of force to demonstrate "we're confirming what maybe you knew and we just wanted to demonstrate to you that we know how to use it and aren't afraid to use it", of course that's conjecture on my part however, we don't fully know what the relationship will be with Russian here. I don't know that I had any information on Nextar's Bonus Mk II round before this however, Finland has had it since 2014. This is a fairly new round, if you will, a more potent, updated version of "STRIX" containing two warheads within the shell. What's note worthy from the Nextar ref. is the search area of the shell @ 32,000m2 per charge. It's GOING TO FIND SOMETHING AND TAKE IT OUT.
http://www.janes.com/article/65616/finland-fires-bonus-artillery-rounds-for-first-time
http://www.nexter-group.fr/nexter/Flipping_Book/Export_GB/index.html#69

Haven't had a chance to verify if Bonus Mk II is in the French, Swedish or Finland's OOB yet.


The holiday season is upon us and there's nothing more peaceful than a beautiful winter scene in a clearing in the forest with fresh snow on the ground. Except maybe for what lurks on the other side of those trees about 30km's away. But it does just put you in the Holiday Spirit, well maybe not but it is a great shot.

14488

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[dmnt]

I don't know that I had any information on Nextar's Bonus Mk II round before this however, Finland has had it since 2014.

It's been on my radar for a while, but as there is no official confirmation of being accepted for live firing practices, it's been withheld. Some other submunition ammo is there, but AFAIK the penetration values in OOB10 still apply.

[152H55]

The Finnish purchase of used South Korean 155mm K9 Thunder self-propelled howitzers seems to be getting closer, a memorandum of understanding is to be signed shortly and the formal contract in the beginning of the next year. From KBS, the national public broadcaster of South Korea: http://world.kbs.co.kr/english/news/news_Ec_detail.htm?No=123440

[dmnt]

Reports that FIN is purchasing 48 howitzers, but numbers don't add up. FIN gov has talked about approximately USD 100M purchase. However, tech transfer or maintenance etc. might not be included. (thread continues in Swedish, but machine translation works) https://twitter.com/a7_FIN_SWE/status/802559670779056128

[MarkSheppard]

New SWEDISH SPA.

http://www.baesystems.com/en/article/bae-systems-hagglunds-to-deliver-vehicle-mounted-mortar-system-to-swedish-army

BAE Systems has received a 575 million SEK ($68 million) contract for the installation of vehicle mounted mortar systems on Swedish Army CV90 Infantry Fighting Vehicles.

The installation of the company’s mortar system, known as Mjölner, on 40 CV90s will considerably increase the indirect fire capability of the vehicles to support mechanized battalions.

“The delivery of the Mjölner solution to the Swedish Army allows it to field a capability well adapted for the CV90 while enhancing the fleet’s firepower,” said Tommy Gustafsson-Rask, managing director of BAE Systems Hägglunds.

Mjölner is the hammer of Thor in Norse mythology. The contract was issued by the Swedish Defence Materiel Administration (FMV), with first deliveries scheduled to take place in the first quarter of 2019.

CV90 is a family of Swedish tracked combat vehicles designed for FMV by BAE Systems Hägglunds and BAE Systems Bofors, which provides the vehicle’s turrets. More than 4.5 million engineering hours has contributed to the development of this advanced vehicle. The Swedish version is outfitted with a turret equipped with a 40 mm autocannon.

The Swedish Army has more than 500 CV90s. Earlier this year, BAE Systems was awarded a contract to refurbish 262 of the vehicles, including survivability, turret, and combat system performance upgrades. Adding the mounted mortar systems addresses another priority that helps increase the vehicles’ lifespan in support of Army capabilities.

Denmark, Estonia, Finland, the Netherlands, Norway, and Switzerland also operate CV90s.

-----------

A Swedish member on another forum says:

After plowing through the sketchy explanations people have offered up online I'm confident that Mjölner is muzzle loading.

A human loader grab rounds and place them in the two rails depicted in the above prototype photo, a loading system then carries the rounds up towards the muzzle and then inserts them.

This is what allows for the higher rate of fire, the breech takes longer to open, load and close.

I can report that everyone who's had a chance to get a closer look at the system are very pleased.

Compared to AMOS the pros are a higher rate of fire, more storage for rounds and much cheaper cost which allows for more units given the available funds.

The cons are no firing on the move and no MRSI, at least initially. But the overall consensus is that it will be a better indirect fire platform.

[DRG]

New SWEDISH SPA.
first deliveries scheduled to take place in the first quarter of 2019.


Lets wait and see what it really looks like in a year or two.....or three

Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...We need to slow things (And Mark I'm not saying this applies to your last.) down. I'm again sensing a certain rush or urgency to get equipment into this game. We've got until 2026 (Or longer?) for final submissions and personally I don't wish to spend that time like a few of us did about 4-5 years ago almost wasting a "patch season" on deleting equipment that "never was" for whatever reason you can think of. It was just an exercise in frustration and wonderment as to how some of what got in quite frankly did get in. So with the last two posts in mind and for TRACKING purposes only I give you the following with a related story (Somewhat) to follow at least in the "platform area". I must say I do like the concept...
http://www.armyrecognition.com/december_2016_global_defense_security_news_industr y/bae_systems_to_deliver_cv90_ifv_fitted_with_mjolne r_120mm_mortar_system_to_swedish_army_12612162.htm l

Again platform related but, more for the APC Thread...
The Dutch looking to protect theirs and again for TRACKING only...
http://www.armyrecognition.com/december_2016_global_defense_security_news_industr y/cv9035_ifvs_from_army_of_netherlandto_be_fitted_wi th_israeli_imi_iron_fist_active_protection_system_ 12612161.html

Breathe in Breathe out-I feel better already! :p

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Suhiir]

I'll second that.

The USMC rebuild got rid of a LOT of stuff that the original OOB builder assumed the USMC had because the US Army did, thought they had a lot more of then they actually did, and had a mish-mash of USAF, USN, and USMC aircraft. And that's ignoring the assumption that USMC administrative formations are also their combat formations like the US Army.

Don put in god knows how many hours cleaning out "what if" and no one wants to put in anything that's not solidly verified and have to do it again.

[DRG]

I don't mind putting it in once we can actually see one rumbling along a road. I got ahead of myself ( again ) with the USMC ACV......that's why it's right beside the ill-fated EFVP and yes pulling all the things the US Army eventually stopped development on but we had in the OOB's was a major PITA I don't want to repeat anytime soon. I do appreciate heads up info on new equipment but I really do try to contain my enthusiasm adding things that are still artist concepts but there will always be exceptions

[IronDuke99]

I very much doubt that even anywhere close to 50% of military 'concepts' ever actually enter service in a recognisable form.

Add to that the huge factor of budget constraints, operational changes (ie, you start, or stop, fighting an actual conflict)etc, and you are looking at really very few 'concepts' actually reaching service.

Case in point one: The Russian Armata, how many will actually be in service in one year? How many in five years? How many in ten years? And that does not even begin to look at if they will actually work as it says on the tin...

Case in point two: The whole, hugely expensive, in both time and money, British Army FRES debacle, that has resulted in nothing more than Ajax, that is a very large, and heavy, recce vehicle that lacks the means to fight and defeat anything as well, or better, armoured than it is...

[luigim]

BUG REPORT: Ukrainian Rocket Artillery Vierba has no icon.

[DRG]

First.... a "bug" is a code problem NOT an icon issue
Second.......it's showing an Icon in my game and the virgin copy I keep for testing patch installations ( shown here ) so the "bug" is at your end

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14511&stc=1&d=1483042652

The file the Icons used for that vehicle is Icon0105.shp....check you have one in your graphics folder and it's full and has been since version 5.5 so if you are missing the ones for the Vierba you are missing many more as well but I can assure you those Icons were issued and are in everyone else's game

[luigim]

Thank you I'm sorry

[DRG]

Did you find that file missing ?

[luigim]

Maybe patching error. My fault

[152H55]

The Finnish purchase of used South Korean 155mm K9 Thunder self-propelled howitzers seems to be getting closer, a memorandum of understanding is to be signed shortly and the formal contract in the beginning of the next year. From KBS, the national public broadcaster of South Korea: http://world.kbs.co.kr/english/news/news_Ec_detail.htm?No=123440

Deal done, 48 K9's purchased for 146 M€. Delivers and staff training to start this year, conscript training begins in 2019 so first units are combat ready in 1/2020.

Link to the official FDF release (in Finnish): http://maavoimat.fi/artikkeli/-/asset_publisher/maavoimille-uutta-operatiivista-vaikuttamiskykya
Somewhat intelligible Google translation of the same:https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmaavoimat.fi%2Fartikkeli%2F-%2Fasset_publisher%2Fmaavoimille-uutta-operatiivista-vaikuttamiskykya&edit-text=

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Been tracking the same, from my files from last July...
http://www.armyrecognition.com/july_2016_global_defense_security_news_industry/finland_to_buy_second-hand_k9_thunder_howitzer_from_south_korea_50507161 .html

I haven't read my "papers" yet but I'm sure this will have been updated or soon will be. We have time to ensure this goes all the way.

We've been burned game wise by contract cancellations before , the USMC w/EFV and India w/MMCRA and others from India several times, come to mind as does the ARCHER which I think still needs to be addressed.

As an add on (Shows how long I maintain my files since my hiatus.) the ARCHER issue I referred to above, concerns Norway having dropped out of the program in the joint development of the system with Sweden on 06 Dec. 2013. I think we had them put in for that years patch or previous one as they were to have received 24 UNITS by the end of 2013 for Norway. Sorry haven't had a chance until the previous post brought my memory back to regional associated arty issues was made to check in on that situation.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/sweden-norway-to-cooperate-on-archer-artillery-project-05142/

I'm more cautious about these things now because it just seems there are more pressures on defense spending now and priorities are in flux with reactions to what Russia and China are doing at any given moment. And it saves on rework as well game wise.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don if your up against it (And you are.) no worries at all then. If you have the time though...

NORWAY/ARCHER SPA/UNITS 600 - 601/DELETE// On 6 December 2013 Norway dropped out of the program due to many reasons from financial to Sweden not fulfilling the delivery portion of the contract which was to be meant by end of 2013. All true. Sweden has just recently bought the remaining 24 UNITS meant for Norway (Each had a 24 UNIT split of the total production run of 48 UNITS.) of those 24, 12 will go into storage and they hope to find a customer for the remaining 12 UNITS. More on Norway's SPA search below.
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/feature/5/150076/archer%3A-why-norway-pulled-the-plug.html
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/sweden-norway-to-cooperate-on-archer-artillery-project-05142/

SWEDEN/ARCHER SPA/UNITS 416 & 463/ADD/LEMUR RCWS 12.7mm w/4 Grenade Launchers (2 per side.)/200 Ready Rds. - 1500-2000 stored VICE 7.62mm./Mounted over crew cab behind driver./Has Day & Night sights w/TI/GSR /Kongsberg RWS was dropped apparently./CHANGE/UNITS 416 & 463/START DATE TO FEB. 2016 per ref. one below./Armed with BONUS rounds. For FYI, they are not considered a CM munition but a precision munition.//
Sweden on it's own and stuck with the bill more or less. Note the glowing review in the last ref. by a Norwegian artillery officer. It shows how things "can turn on a dime".
http://www.forsvarsmakten.se/en/news/2016/02/a-good-day-at-the-artillery-regiment/
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/archer.htm
http://www.janes.com/article/63964/sweden-to-double-archer-artillery-purchase
https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htart/articles/20161013.aspx
http://www.bundesheer.at/truppendienst/ausgaben/artikel.php?id=1138

Norway since ARCHER as it hunts for a new SPA Platform...
http://www.fsi.no/sfiles/90/14/1/file/militarteknikk-4-5-2015.pdf
https://aw.my.com/en/forum/showthread.php?60247-Norwegian-Armed-Forces-testing-artillery-systems (Scroll to page 4.)
http://www.americanmilitaryforum.com/forums/threads/k9-caesar-m109g-and-pzh-2000-compete-in-norwegian-spa-tender.562/
http://www.snafu-solomon.com/2016/08/norwegian-army-picks-hanwha-techwin-k9.html

Pics: 14613 14614

14615

A good way to get out of cleaning out the gutters today, tomorrow is another story!?! ;)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

God this was aggravating forgot to "sort" my refs "A-Z" today and completely missed this...
http://www.janes.com/article/67551/estonia-begins-k9-artillery-negotiations-with-south-korea
http://www.janes.com/article/67827/finland-buys-k9-howitzers-from-south-korea

For Finland it'll be awhile though much like it was for Sweden with the ARCHER...

"Deliveries of the howitzers to Finland are due to begin during 2017, in order to begin staff training this year. Finnish conscripts are due to begin being trained on the K9 in 2019, while deliveries of all 48 systems are due to be completed by 2024. This timeline accords with previously released Finnish plans to declare initial operating capability with a new howitzer in 2020 and full operating capability in 2025."

SOP: Maintenanced, Modified to customer specs (Finnish name plates would be a good idea on the pieces parts. You laugh but I've seen that out here a couple of times in delaying shipment.), Tested, Accepted, Shipped, Inspected and Evaluated in the field.

Scandinavia and neighboring areas are sure is a busy place for South Korea right now!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[luigim]

NOT SPAA but AA MANPADS:

Russian Verba:

http://www.armyrecognition.com/january_2016_global_defense_security_news_industry/four_of_russia_s_airborne_troops_equipped_with_ver ba_9k333_manpads_air_defense_missile_system_110011 61.html

http://www.military-today.com/missiles/verba.htm

http://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_russian_army_light_heavy_weapons_uk/verba_9k333_manpads_man-portable_air_defense_missile_system_9m336_technica l_data_sheet_pictures_video_12410155.html

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/verba-9k333-man-portable-air-defence-system-manpads/

[DRG]

........already in the next patch

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

You will see this in the MBT & North Korean Threads as well. I've been waiting for this data to come out since last Friday. Couldn't tell if the Pokpung-ho was mounting a new double barrelled MG or if it was a Grenade Launcher now that question has been answered. Did some work on this OOB a few years back with Don and the "resident" expert on the subject Marcello. We've had some "interesting" discussions ourselves but, I have always respected his opinions. Don't know what's happened to him but, he made me better when I first decided to start posting out here going back to the start of my MRAP Thread. It will be posted where this belongs but first I need them in my working threads.

Any information from a reliable source as this is worth it's weight in gold when it concerns North Korea.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/april_2017_global_defense_security_news_industry/analysis_new_combat_vehicles_and_tanks_at_military _parade_in_south_korea_by_army_recognition_1170417 2.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

IF YOU READ THIS IN THE "PROBLEMS WITH THE CURRENT RUSSIAN OOB (#11)" THREAD-THIS IS COPIED OVER FROM IT.

This is everything I've been tracking for Russian SPAA/AA equipment in some cases for almost 2 years now.

Pantsir-S2... Issues improved radar and detection augmented by a new missile allowing extended range and altitude.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/febru..._12502152.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russi..._12205164.html

ZSU-23-4 & Tungunska replacement?... Issues they're just old and outdated.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/decem..._12812151.html

The next is specifically for the dedicated Arctic Defense Force (ADF) they already had the SPAA version mounting the Pantsir-S1 modified system the news here is they are also equipping the ADF with the new longer range TOR-M2 system
with both mounted on the Vityaz DT-30-series all-terrain tracked carriers (ATTCs) optimized for Arctic operations.
http://www.janes.com/article/69523/r...efence-systems

Buk-M3... Issues pretty much the same as the above improved radar and new missile, however, the main difference here is that this is considered a completely new system vice an improved one. That's the big news here. I believe I might've posted this already in the SPA/SPAA Thread at least the second ref.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/decem..._11212153.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russi..._11312154.html

Finally because it's time for lunch and getting ready for "my Monday" the TOR-M2U improved version of the well, TOR-M2... Issues this comes under much improved from the first ref. "The SAM system is capable of acquiring over 40 targets simultaneously, prioritize them and engage four of them at the same time." in the SAM world that's pretty darn good.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/septe..._13009162.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russi...o_2604153.html

Strela replacement and SPAA for Russian Airborne troops, the Sosna-10... Issues simply "out with the old, in with the new".
http://www.armyrecognition.com/may_2..._10505161.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russi..._11312155.html


That pretty much covers most of it. As a reminder equipment status always noted on the equipment info refs or as otherwise noted in the preceding article.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Strela replacement and SPAA for Russian Airborne troops, the Sosna-10... Issues simply "out with the old, in with the new".
http://www.armyrecognition.com/may_2..._10505161.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russi..._11312155.html




ATM Army Recognition is down but I did find this

http://kbtochmash.com/press-eng/articles-eng/articles-eng_4.html

"The export version of ADMS Strela-10 received the designation SOSNA."

This one does not seem to have and official designation yet but....

• increase in combat range from 3 – 5 to 8 – 10 km;
• increase in ammunition load at a launching system from 4 to 12 SAMs;
• engagement not only airplanes, helicopters, UAVs and large cruise missiles, but also small-seized air attack weapons, including striking elements of high-precision weapon;
• almost completely automated combat performance cycle, including detection, taking for autotracking and missile guidance.

So the claim made here is it can target smart bombs......if I read this right

I think we need to wait for more information before adding this to the game. I do have a bit of wiggle room to add new weapons and units but space is limited and if I add something it needs to be worthwhile to add......this would be but we have to know when it's issued before adding it

also, it indicates the range for the Strela-10 is 3-5 km....the question is.....is 3km the minimum range or is that the max range under ideal and less than ideal conditions ?

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

First I'll submit any piece of equipment in either my normal patch submission or using the same general format, as I did above in Post #103 concerning the ARCHER. It's easier and no one should assume anything else I post is anything more then just FYI outside of those afore mentioned formats. This should end any further confusion as to my intentions.

Secondly I don't know what happened with the refs from my last Post #24 again above. All I did was a simple "Cut & Paste" as I've done many, many times in the past without issue concerning the opening up of the refs. :dk:

Thirdly I did go back and verified those same refs did/do open up properly in the " "PROBLEMS WITH THE CURRENT RUSSIAN OOB (#11)" Thread Post # . So sorry for any inconvenience there as I try to figure out what happened in my last post.

I'm still evaluating this equipment issue as well, I can tell you in my opinion, that I feel the Arctic based SPAA doesn't need to be in the game just based on the fact they're meant specifically for their Arctic Defense Forces (ADF) as compared to the more main and baseline units already discussed also in that thread. The other unit is the TOR-2U do we need it? Is it that much better than the TOR-2, especially when Russia has the TOR-3 NOW BEING FIELDED?

I've got beyond these units at least 15 more new pieces of Russian equipment that is already, very soon will be and for the rest fielded by 2020. And we'll still have six more years for whatever comes down the pike and I'm already tracking some of that. A handful might already be in the game and will require date changes but, the majority aren't and that's just from my files.

The tipping point might just come within the next two years or sooner at the rate the real world for some of these OOB's are improving current equipment, developing variants of the same (Which is different then improving it.) and just fielded new equipment.

Any option to include the couple I've suggested in the past in regards to air units, or any other solution will require a lot of code and and software changes. Maybe a year or two to do that and nothing else might not be a bad idea in the long run in the near future.

By then for example we'll have a better handle on the T-14, PAK-FA, F-35 and believe me I can go on and on for the top four or five OOB's in this game. Just because I haven't submitted anything in the last two or three years doesn't mean I haven't been compiling the data for said submissions at a later date. I think I've demonstrated that recently here and elsewhere already.

I can count the slots as well, and seeing the rapid pace of advancement and looking and trying to figure out at my end what to do is almost like trying to "fit the square peg in the round hole". But I'm an analytical type person always have been and I guess always will be (I hate those Briggs Meyers and the like tests, (I just really wanted to be an astronaut! :D) not ranting just concerned for the future of the game here is all and where we're heading. Clarity of purpose is all I seek, even if it means "mind your own business" I can most certainly remember worse then that being said to me.

Besides for you "code breakers" my usual response is FTITCTAJ! Though I would NEVER feel or respond that way to anyone out here!! :angel

And I'm actually in a good mood, lost over 30 pounds, now below my retirement weight from 2002. Just making it harder for my younger co-workers to keep up with me at work and on the OTC. :p

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

These are for now just FYI issues I'm tracking, "Wish I may, wish I might...", we'll see but, in the meantime what the hell is a STRYKER doing in this Thread!?! Well find out below...
http://www.janes.com/article/73099/boeing-general-dynamics-team-for-stryker-based-shorad-vehicle

ALGERIA: Now confirmed has the Russian BUK-M2E in service, this is the tracked version..
http://www.janes.com/article/73123/algeria-confirms-buk-delivery
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-9K37-Buk.html
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/buk-m2e-air-defence-missile-system/
http://www.military-today.com/missiles/buk_m2e.htm

Note: Whenever I can use the "ausaairpower" website I will this think tank does excellent research. And they were right about the issues with F-35 while most were still on the "ouh ra ra" band wagon.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

ALGERIA: Now confirmed has the Russian BUK-M2E in service, this is the tracked version..
[B]http://www.janes.com/article/73123/algeria-confirms-buk-delivery:

Yes BUT..... the article says it's NOT the tracked version


The story did not mention the SAM system, which was mounted on a Belarusian-made MZKT 6922 6x6 wheeled vehicle instead of the tracked carriers used by most other Buk operators, including Egypt and Syria.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Though refs. make a distinction between the export tracked version BUK-M2E and the 6x6 wheeled version BUK-M2EK I'm not sure why the articles are leading to the tracked version. However further digging shows it is the 6x6 version.

Though ref. 1 covers the world I use the web site because it specializes on Africa and the Middle East/Persia. Also the JANE's ref. now "working" at least off the web is indicating wheeled as well. From ref. 2...
"The story did not mention the SAM system, which was mounted on a Belarusian-made MZKT 6922 6x6 wheeled vehicle instead of the tracked carriers used by most other Buk operators, including Egypt and Syria." Ref. 3 and I looked right at the "darn" thing earlier and it didn't register in my brain :doh: shows what in the lower right hand picture from the exercise? You got it.
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48921:algeria-operating-buk-m2e-surface-to-air-missiles&catid=50:Land&Itemid=105
http://www.janes.com/article/73123/algeria-confirms-buk-delivery
https://www.dzbreaking.com/2017/08/16/algeria-confirms-buk-delivery/

Stared right at that picture several times-"Deer in the headlights" syndrome I guess.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

I now have a new 6x6 wheeled Icon for next release. It's bound to be needed for other nations eventually

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Final conformation for Algeria from the 17th and I didn't even look here like I normally do everyday. :doh:
https://www.armyrecognition.com/august_2017_global_defense_security_news_industry/algerian_army_acquired_buk-m2e_air-defence_system_81708171.html

Also from DID: Finland not to start it's K9 training until 2019. They don't have the training and BSM systems in place to support them yet.

"Norwegian firm Nammo A/S has come to a landmark agreement external link with the Finnish Defense Forces (FDF) to supply its newly developed artillery shells. Helsinki is the first international customer for Nammo’s 155 mm insensitive munitions, high explosive, extended range ammo (IM-HE-ER)—which has been under development since 2002 and partly funded by the state-owned Norwegian Defense Material Agency (NDMA)—which covers almost twice the distance of Nammo’s previous precision-strike artillery ammunition offerings. The ammo purchase forms part of a long-term project by Finland to reinforce the Army’s artillery capability and fire-power, which has already seen the February purchase of second-hand K9 Thunder 155 mm/52 caliber self-propelled artillery systems from South Korea. Training with the K9s will commence in 2019 following a modernization with Finnish sub-systems that include battle management, global positioning, communications and camouflage bolt-ons." Barring no developmental issues, this would push FOC to late 2019 or first half of 2020.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[redcoat2]

Land Ceptor is making its arms show debut at DSEI 2017:

http://defence-blog.com/army/land-ceptor-air-defence-system-debuts-at-dsei-2017-in-london.html

Some basic information about CAMM (Land application) on the MBDA website:

http://www.mbda-systems.com/product/camm/ (http://www.mbda-systems.com/product/camm/)

I do not know when it is due to replace Rapier.

[redcoat2]

The ‘Korkut’ 35mm short range air defence system has taken part in the Turkish Army’s Atış Serbest 2017 military drill (see thumbnail).

The Turkish Army signed a contract for the purchase of the Korkut system in March 2017 and serial production started at that time. The website armyrecognition.com predicted that the first deliveries would be made in 2018:

https://www.armyrecognition.com/turkey_army_artillery_vehicle_weapon_systems_uk/korkut_self-propelled_air_defense_35mm_gun_system_vehicle_tech nical_data_sheet_specifications_pictures_video_119 03175.html (https://www.armyrecognition.com/turkey_army_artillery_vehicle_weapon_systems_uk/korkut_self-propelled_air_defense_35mm_gun_system_vehicle_tech nical_data_sheet_specifications_pictures_video_119 03175.html)

Wikipedia says the Korkut will replace the aging M42A1 Duster (obat32/unit 105):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FNSS_ACV-30

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

And now for something new...It's probably to be fielded around late-2018/early 2019. It's called the GRKPBV90. The plan will be equip the five CV9040 mechanized battalions of the Swedish Army with eight CV90 twin 120 mm Mjolner mortar systems. Each will have a Bv 206 tracked articulated all terrain ammo carrier.

And the last para should end any continuing "what if's" concerning the STRIX, kind've like the M&M's Christmas time commercial where Santa Claus (You can believe in worse. :D) arrives to drop gifts and sees two M&M's sitting in the chair and says "They do exist!!" and passes out. Well they do exist and it seems they can still get them, which of course I've been saying for many years now. ;)

What I didn't realize was the range was further than I thought at 7500m/7.5km/4.7mi. (Rounded off.) I always thought it was something just over 5000m.

Again I like learning new things!
http://www.janes.com/article/75278/details-of-sweden-s-120-mm-mjolner-development-emerge

This begs the following two questions but, I think they do...

1. Are the Swiss armed with the STRIX as JANE's reports?

2. Will the GRKPBV90 have a direct fire capability of the ATMOS system.

The next would be a great addition with it ever gets done. The important thing with the following it's still in continuing development and lately with Poland. I like systems like this, which is why once in awhile as a change of pace I'll reach into the Allies section and pull out a platoon of Italian CENTAURO's for fun.
http://fighting-vehicles.com/cv90120-t/

While I'm here about a year ago I posted on the following now a prototype was shown at AUSA 2017 and this is one of the top defense industry shows. Generally if it makes it there, it's coming to a battlefield near you, well sometime down the road anyway...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/ausa_2017_show_daily_news_tv_coverage_report/bae_systems_presents_bradley_m-shorad_air_defense_ausa_2017.html

If you remember a couple of weeks ago my BRADLEY crew guy "JAKE" told me they experimented with the APACHE 30mm being equipped on a BRADLEY (I commented on that in the Thread.) well, it looks like at least a modified version will be mounted on the above. I'll let him know about that when I go back to work Tue.

And one last thing, I do hold back on articles or drop "hints" of things to come in the hope that I'll start patch submission work again. Health is good and have lost 40lbs in a healthy way. That's what started my issues about the same time Andy and Don were having their vacation. It's been difficult to bounce back with family and my job to find and I REALLY HATE TO USE THIS WORD, the motivation to do Patch work at this time. However due to certain other folks out here PBWIL and REDCOAT2 and Don as usual I've had the most active last few months in a longtime. I've never stopped reading my "papers" so I've stored A LOT OF DATA, many recently posted by others. With that in mind I'll try to do a better job of getting these out when I see someone else post on the same. The more evidence the better chance it has of getting in the game. A team effort is never a wasted effort. With the above in mind and if it's not too much of a bother, if these get used please let me know so I can delete them from my files. Just in my SPA/SPAA file alone I have over 150 articles not including some in a by country general bookmark that were outside of that file before I made it. I think a couple of you might've figured out what a part of my issue is also. One file for each Thread I started in the Forum. And to think I pulled all that together for a handful of years. God I don't know how Andy and Don have done it for so long?

But I'm glad they have.

Anyway I believe the oldest goes back to March this year and I'll hopefully have them in a proper order from as always old on top. Topic recently posted Turkish KORKUT...
http://www.armyrecognition.com/march_2017_global_defense_security_news_industry/turkish_army_has_ordered_korkut_new_35mm_short-range_air_defense_system_to_aselsan_from_turkey_11 603173.html
https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2017/03/17/FNSS-beings-production-for-Turkish-KORKUT-armored-vehicle/5021489775024/?utm_source=sec&utm_campaign=sl&utm_medium=2
https://www.armyrecognition.com/turkey_army_artillery_vehicle_weapon_systems_uk/korkut_35mm_twin-cannon_gun_system_tracked_armoured_technical_data_ sheet_specifications_pictures_video_11903173.html


Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

And now for something new...It's probably to be fielded around late-2018/early 2019. It's called the GRKPBV90. The plan will be equip the five CV9040 mechanized battalions of the Swedish Army with eight CV90 twin 120 mm Mjolner mortar systems.

Oh goodie, I finally get to use the SSG 120 STRIX Icon ( with a few modifications..) that's been there for a decade......... I'll just rename it GRKPBV90...

"Close enough"
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15002&stc=1&d=1509472025


The Mjölner mortar system can fire the STRIX so that's how it will be set up

[DRG]

What I didn't realize was the range was further than I thought at 7500m/7.5km/4.7mi. (Rounded off.) I always thought it was something just over 5000m.

7500 m is 150 hexes and STRIX has been range:150 since V10 (2016)..it was a bit more optimistic before that......


God I don't know how Andy and Don have done it for so long?


We're not sure either........

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

To Pibwl my apologies for &*%@! up your site name in my last.

I also should've put vacation in quotes, as some might remember it was everything but a "vacation" during most of that hiatus for Andy and Don.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[redcoat2]

The Norwegian Defence Materiel Agency, or Forsvarsmateriell, has signed a contract with Hanwha Land Systems for 24 K-9 Thunder self-propelled howitzers with an option for 24 more.

https://www.defensenews.com/land/2017/12/20/norway-orders-k9-howitzers-in-latest-win-for-south-korean-arms-industry/

The article claims the new howitzers will replace the M109A3GNM self-propelled howitzer currently in service with Norway’s armed forces.

A video of the K-9 trials in Norway:

https://youtu.be/IxS_KPDDwNY

[DRG]

I guess the Norweigian took a look at the Finn's K9's........

Now entered

[dmnt]

I guess the Norweigian took a look at the Finn's K9's........

Now entered

They actually performed the arctic tests in cooperation and shared their test results with each other.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well to clean up my files for Finland in this thread...

First gives status of artillery at the time of this article.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/march_2015_global_defense_security_news_uk/finland_reportedly_plans_to_purchase_new_heavy_sel f-propelled_artillery.html

The second phase.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/july_2016_global_defense_security_news_industry/finland_to_buy_second-hand_k9_thunder_howitzer_from_south_korea_50507161 .html

And here we go again, another retread article I'd already posted in here, you might not like but, I don't make this stuff up. First the quote from JANE's..."This timeline accords with previously released Finnish plans to declare initial operating capability with a new howitzer in 2020 and full operating capability in 2025.". And so it goes...
http://www.janes.com/article/67962/finland-buys-k9-howitzers-from-south-korea
https://czncd.wordpress.com/2017/02/17/finland-buys-k9-howitzers-from-south-korea/
https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/finland-buys-k9-howitzers-from-south-korea.515044/
Note: The last ref confirms JANE's source from FDF.

A capability reminder (BONUS not part of the CM Treaty.) if not entered already. I had posted this shortly after it was released in this thread.
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/178851/finnish-army-fires-bonus-rounds-for-first-time.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[dmnt]

Well to clean up my files for Finland in this thread...

First gives status of artillery at the time of this article.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/march_2015_global_defense_security_news_uk/finland_reportedly_plans_to_purchase_new_heavy_sel f-propelled_artillery.html


Just be careful with the "official" numbers which are quoted here. I stepped on this mine already once and thought that if it isn't on the official Vienna convention list for Army equipment strength then it doesn't exist.

However, Finland used a loophole where Navy strength isn't included in the listing and coastal forces operate under Navy command. And they operate field guns and other - even mobile - artillery units. And if they're all transferred to the Coastal units then they don't exist on the OSCE listing.

See: (in Finnish) http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/201611182200029469_uu.shtml
especially the image attached:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15069&stc=1&d=1513941311

First table compares Finnish ("Suomi") announcements to German ("Saksa") ones in 2014 and in 2016. The table rows are titled (in parenthesis the number reported in 2016):
120mm Heavy mortar (698)
122mm FH (471)
122mm SPA (34)
155mm SPA (-)
130mm FG (76)
152mm FG (24)
155mm FG (132)
122mm MRL (72)
270mm MRL (41)
227mm MRL (-)
120mm SP-Mortar (18)

Two graphs below are the tank numbers and then combined artillery numbers (not including < 120mm weaponry)

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

If I may, my ref. was only discussing the Army specifically in that article and your ref. is two years newer. I have a full appreciation of the Scandinavian countries need for coastal batteries that I believe fall mostly under their respective navies. And they do (And are.) rightly need to be in the game and updated as warranted for those countries especially since they're moving towards missile systems lately. Like I said just cleaning out old files.

Happy Holidays!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[redcoat2]

Algeria (obat 50) confirms delivery of SR5 rocket launcher system from China. The People’s National Army of Algeria has released pictures of its recently delivered multiple rocket launchers during a live-fire military exercise.

http://defence-blog.com/army/algeria-confirms-delivery-of-sr5-multiple-rocket-launchers-from-china.html

Reports from November last year:

https://www.armyrecognition.com/november_2017_global_defense_security_news_industr y/china_would_have_delivered_sr5_rocket_launchers_to _algeria.html
(https://www.armyrecognition.com/november_2017_global_defense_security_news_industr y/china_would_have_delivered_sr5_rocket_launchers_to _algeria.html)
https://themaghrebtimes.com/11/22/algeria-has-acquired-sr5-multiple-rocket-launchers/

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well Turkey finally settled on a local manufacturer to build the engines for the long delayed ALTAY tank. Another long standing program just 2 days ago has finally come to an agreement. The system is Russia's S-400 and Turkey has been looking into trying the system since IDEF 2009 in Istanbul.

The parties have finally reached an agreement for them to be bought with a technological exchange package. I feel the sales numbers will be lower than in the past, as Turkey is in the "middle" stage in deployment of it's own system. I believe it'll be ~NOV 2019 earliest before Turkey fields them.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-defence/turkey-has-completed-purchase-of-russian-missile-defense-defense-minister-idUSKBN1DC0H7
https://www.timesofisrael.com/turkey-finalizes-deal-with-russia-to-purchase-s-400-defense-system/
https://www.armyrecognition.com/february_2018_global_defense_security_army_news_in dustry/turkey_to_buy_russian_s-400_air_defense_systems.html
https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/turkey/turkey-completes-purchase-of-russian-missile-defense-system-officials-say-1.5464852


From ref. 3...
"The S-400 entered service with the Russian Armed Forces on April 28, 2007, replacing the S-300 air defense system. The Russian Army plans call for the fielding of 18 battalions by 2020 as the backbone of its surface-to-air missile capabilities. Belarus is set to become the first export customer."

Well there is a small problem with the above, the FOC+ date is all messed up now. The correct date as already in the game for Russia, was submitted on February 12th, 2011, 06:55 PM and I wonder who could've done that!?! ;) However now it's back to April 2007.

So now what? Well we need to go back in time and determine whether these newer sources are correct OR have since been updated.

Well before this Thread existed which was built to be more inclusive there was this Thread...Transport for U.S. Patriot Units-Update! I'd been tracking the S-400 for sometime from the aforementioned Thread go to Page 3/Posts #23 - #26. It's many pages back in the Threads file, however, it won't be in a few minutes. :D You'll find your answer in the last post of the below thread and where the 2007 came from.
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Grumble-Gargoyle.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

This to put things in order.

PJC
:capt:

[MarkSheppard]

Japan is showing off a wheeled SP Howitzer that could replace towed guns in JGSDF service

https://defence-blog.com/army/japan-reveals-details-of-new-155-mm-wheeled-self-propelled-howitzer.html

According to the MoD’s statement, the Acquisition, Technology and Logistics Agency (ATLA) is developing new wheeled self-propelled howitzers for replacing FH-70 towed howitzers for the Japan Ground Self-Defense Force (JGSDF).

Details of the first prototype of 155 mm self-propelled artillery system, based on 8×8 chassis were released at the official website of the Japan Ministry of Defense.

The new artillery system is a hybrid of the wheeled truck chassis, with a 155mm 52-calibre long-range gun that is equipped with the on-board computation, inertial navigation and aiming systems.

The vehicle has a maximum length of 11.4m, a height of 3.4m and width of 2.5m. A typical operating crew is five personnel though three can manage the gun and vehicle functions in an emergency.

Tags: Japan

Meanwhile in CHINA; there may be a new wheeled SP howitzer platform, limited details are available on it; a few dozen of it have been seen on a train.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Before I start, I must say we're missing in the USA OOB the following M109A1, M109A3, M109A4, M109A5, M109A5+ and M109A7 PIM/A7 units. The compromise UNIT appears to be the M109A6 PALADIN that covers the period of JAN 1985 to DEC 2025. So who cares and why is this an issue? I have three issues that come to mind in just a few minutes of looking at the issue. OK now five after 5 minutes.

1. It's bigger and size matters. Versions up the M109A5+ used the chassis of the M113 APC. Both the M109A6 (I think.) and M109A7 (For sure.) use the BRADLEY chassis.See 2., 3. & 4. below.

2. Ammo load is different the M109A6 carries 38 rounds. The previous versions carry 36 or 28 rounds.

3. It is better protected with heavier armor and spall liners installed in the interior.

4. The guns are different the M109A6 has the 155mm/L39 (PIM/A7 might be bigger, if I remember correctly, I posted quite a bit about these current last 2 units.) the previous versions I believe ALL used the 155mm/L23 gun.

5. Also some M109A6 (And I suspect PIM/A7.) carry a 40 mm automatic grenade launcher vice 12.7mm MG.

6. ROF for M109A6 PALADIN & I believe M109A7 (PIM was dropped.) is 4 RPM for both MAX. AND SUSTAINED fire, while the previous versions ROF is 4 RPM MAX./2 RPM Sustained.

With the ABRAMS issues being in a better place with at least two slots being available, in an otherwise tight OOB, I'm requesting that an intermediate 1 or 2 units be chosen from Ref. 3 below (For the USA.) as submitted for Brazil. This will allow me to fix the M109A6 PALIDAN and we can figure out what to do about the PIM later. My brain is already crunching numbers for the A6. Currently ALL USA M109A6 units are being converted over to the M109A7.

I'm not doing anything with it until I get the "Green Light" to do so.

I'm forced to use the M109A6 based on the units BRAZIL has gotten and will be getting per Ref. 1.

USA/CHANGE/M109A2/UNIT 041/AMMO ROUNDS 36 vice 28//This was the first version to have the increased ammo allowance.//
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/m109.htm

BRAZIL/ADD/M109A5/COPY/USA UNIT 042/START APR 2019/MG M284 155mm/L39/ROUNDS 36/SECONDARY M2HB 12.7mm w/500 ROUNDS//This unit was the first modified to carry the larger MG.

BRAZIL/ADD/M109A5+/COPY/USA UNIT 042/START JAN 2020/MG M284 155mm/L39/ROUNDS 36/SECONDARY M2HB 12.7mm w/500 ROUNDS//Improved FCS.

BRAZIL/ADD/M992 FAASV/COPY/USA UNIT 343/START APR 2019//Has the ammo capacity to reload M109 Series with 93 rounds.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/january_2019_global_defense_security_army_news_ind ustry/us_donates_m109a5_self-propelled_howitzers_to_brazilian_army.html
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/m109.htm
(See for variants.)
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/m109a6_paladin.htm
https://www.armyrecognition.com/march_2018_global_defense_security_army_news_indus try/new_m109a7_self-propelled_howitzers_tested_at_fort_filey.html


CHINA/ADD/SH-15/ALSO KNOWN AS SH-1A/START JAN 2019/CREW 4 to 5/MG AH-2 155mm/L52/ROF MAX. 6 RPM/SUSTAINED 4 RPM/ROUNDS ?/COMPATIBLE TO NATO and CHINESE ROUNDS/SECONDARY OPTIONAL 12.7mm MG ROUNDS ?/PROTECTION 0/IS HOWEVER AIR PORTABLE C-130 or CHINESE Y-9 TYPE AIR TRANSPORT//There just isn't much more available on this piece of equipment I can find. It is very similar AND closer to the French CEASAR then the SH-1 below.

CHINA/ADD/SH-1/START JAN 2019/CREW 5/MG AH-2 155mm/L52/ROF MAX. 6 RPM/SUSTAINED 4 RPM/ROUNDS 25/COMPATIBLE TO NATO and CHINESE ROUNDS/SECONDARY 12.7mm MG ROUNDS ?/PROTECTION ARMORED CAB/IS AIR PORTABLE C-130 or CHINESE Y-9 TYPE AIR TRANSPORT//A complete SH-1 regiment includes 24 truck-mounted howitzers, 4 battery command post vehicles, one battalion command post vehicle, one meteorological radar, 4 wheeled reconnaissance vehicles with 6x6 configuration and one artillery locating radar.
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/sh1.htm
(See variant section. Also has picture options.)
https://www.armyrecognition.com/january_2019_global_defense_security_army_news_ind ustry/norinco_sh15_self-propelled_howitzers_operational_in_chinese_army.ht ml
https://www.armyrecognition.com/july_2018_global_defense_security_army_news_indust ry/norinco_sh-1_155mm_truck-mounted_howitzer_in_service_with_chinese_army.html

Last two as time allows just wish I had more data.

It's 3am I'm done. Good well everything!?!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Pat.......we are NOT "missing" the 109A1...you are though

808 - M109A1 - Available 01/073 to 12/078

......and there is little point to

BRAZIL/ADD/M109A5+/COPY/USA UNIT 042/START JAN 2020/MG M284 155mm/L39/ROUNDS 36/SECONDARY M2HB 12.7mm w/500 ROUNDS//Improved FCS.

as FCS for arty is NOT modelled by the game. The only difference between that unit and the M109A5 is the "+"

.....and the 155 Chinese guns are already in the game as SP-1

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

To my last and thanks to my sinuses acting up, I've had time to think about the USA artillery issue as discussed in my last post.

We currently have in the game the M109 UNIT 040, M109A2 UNIT 041 and M109A6 PALADIN UNIT 042. The missing variants I've identified in my last post.

I think we need to add the following based on...

1. You have to have a beginning and we do in the M109 UNIT 040 so logically you need to have an end which would mean we need to ADD the M109A7 (Formally PIM.) with any modifications it brings to the series to the game.

2. We to have the milestone units where significant design changes have occurred. We do in M109A2 UNIT 041 which increased the ammo supply from 28 to 36 rounds due having the new M178 gun mount.

Also the M109A6 PALADIN UNIT 042 (Which again are ALL being converted to the M109A7 likely before games end.) represented the first major design change in Armor, Comms, Range and again increased the ammo supply from 36 to 39 rounds which are game related. There to be sure were significant changes its Electronics, FCS, Platform weight and possible performance which in game terms might lead to a SPEED change as well as yet to be investigated.

3. We have a very HUGE gap in time and are also missing a milestone unit that I feel can be fixed with a ADD of the "hybrid" M109A5/A5+ (As was done with the RUSSIAN T-72B3M/B4 UNIT 697.). The M109A5/A5+ successfully address..

3.A. The "bridge" we need to address the time gap.

3.B. The fact it's a milestone unit which marked the change with a M284 155mm/L39 vice 155mm/L23 gun, increased Range, ability to fire rocket assisted ammo, Optional 40mm Grenade Launcher, and FCS.

To summarize I think we need to ADD two units the M109A5/A5+ and the M109A7.

Also the M109A6 PALADIN will again, need to be changed by Dates, Ammo and SPEED. And again...
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/m109.htm
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/m109a6_paladin.htm
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/m109a7.htm

Those are my thoughts as I start thinking about maybe getting some more sleep.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Just saw your reply already understood about the FCS in arty which is why I didn't add it to the highlighted "descriptor/submission". I hope with the above, to consolidate those units and fix the USA OOB time gap.

[DRG]

Pat..... there is NO " time gap" in the M109 series

040 - M109 - Available 01/064 to 12/073

808 - M109A1 - Available 01/073 to 12/078

041 - M109A2 - Available 01/079 to 12/099

042 - M109A6 Paladin - Available 01/085 to 12/125

678 - M109A6 PIM - Available 01/114 to 12/125

there is continuous coverage from 1964 to 2025

and why would we need to add an A7 when you say the A6 PIM is the A7 ?

[DRG]

Trying to get hard info on in-service dates can be a PITA but it appears ( given some of these units were added to the game nearly 2 decades ago ) that the A5 and A6 were amalgamated into one unit since .....according to one source that actually gave some dates...... the A6 was not introduced until 1992 so the 1985 date is ( I suppose given I didn't add it originally ) to cover both the A5 and A6 with the new larger turret.

The A6 and A7 now have Bradly armour values and the A7 now has a 40mm ( subject to testing how that works in the game given this is artillery )

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned the "time gap" so "up front" as I did, but thank you.

I still would like to take one last shot at entering in the M109A5/A5+ (Again we did this with the T-72B3M/B4) hybrid unit. This was a major departure from the previous versions.

If you put it in (M109A5/A5+) it would cover 1985-1995/97(?) overlapping when the M109A6 PALIDIN that was supposed to have entered into service in 1991/92.

Again if you agree to enter this unit, we can use it for Brazil as submitted and any other country that buys either of the two versions. We will likely see more foreign sales of the type before games end.

I will present it in a more focused manner...
The M109A5/A5+ is a milestone unit which changed the main gun to the M284 155mm/L39 vice 155mm/L23 gun of the previous versions, Increased Range, First to be able to fire rocket assisted ammo. From the Ref. already posted...

"M109A5: model with M284 155mm/L39 howitzer, which has a maximum range of 22 km with a standard HE-FRAG projectile and 30 km with rocket-assisted projectile. Ammunition capacity stays the same, however. (That at 36 Rounds.)
M109A5+: upgraded version with improved fire control systems." (FCS not game issue and not why I posted it.

Again remember why we entered the T-72B3M/B4 to consolidate it because the differences were minimal at best and to avoid confusion and having to ADD extra unit added.)
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/m109.htm
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/US/M109_Paladin.php
https://www.janes.com/article/86155/brazil-details-m109a5-br-howitzer-delivery (This will confirm my start date for M109A5+ as it stands.)

I've shot my "wad" on the M109A5/A5+ and with it I close the 2018/2019 Patch Submission Campaign.

I leave on the table for next year the following, T-84 OPLOT-120 (YAGAGAN)(Yes I've been tracking this and there's movement concerning it.) and BRADLEY fix (Thanks to the ABRAMS issues I found.) as my first priority.
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t84_yatagan.htm
(It's been updated since this posting. Think very close to the OPLOT-M with a very good SB 120mm w/ ATGM.)

Don as always I thank you for your support and patience, was good "to get back in the saddle again" though unfortunately I have to watch where my horse trends as those "Rabbit Holes" are still around.

Andy and Don are in it to the "hilt" at this time and I just look forward to April/May to see how it all works out.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

I put the A5 in 2 hours ago and all it really offers is a tweak toward "historical accuracy" game wise..not much........and any on map unit that fires >200 does nothing different than a unit that fires 200 because it is ON MAP and the only advantage of >200 range weapons is in counter battery and on map arty does not CB.

RA ammo is already in the USA OOB with the off map m777's

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Thank You! I haven't played the USA/USMC OOB in a very long time (Europe focused.) and thought we had a couple of OFF MAP M109 units which was why I pointed out the rocket assist ammo concerning the M109A5/A5+.

Now I can focus on "BREXIT" and how it'll affect my retirement funds. It could initially in the short/medium term get VERY UGLY!?! :cold:

As they say over there "CHEERS"!!

Love it when their Submariners visit to teach our "Boys" how to properly or not handle their drinking! ;)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

What I NEED to know for certain and any source I find is being coy about it is which model changed to the Bradley hull ---Not the A5 that seems clear what isn't is if it was the A6 or not until the A7

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I really feel like an as now that I forgot to use DID with all it's built refs. :doh: It made me rethink my web search I believe we got somewhere to a better place with the below.Alright one at a time.

M109A7/START JAN/JUN 2020/END DATE EXPECTED 2050+/BRADLEY COMPONENTS/UPARMORED//
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/have-guns-will-upgrade-the-m109a6-paladin-pim-partnership-04039/
(NOTE: Look at MAY 19/14 USA INDUCTS/STARTS LOW RATE Production./JUN 7/11 NOTES BRADLEY.)
http://web.archive.org/web/20130721063705/https://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/wsh2013/226.pdf
(DOD-101 ARMY Doc. OVERVIEW/NOTE: Second Para middle BRADLEY again/Read it carefully it says also they're built to keep up with the ABRAMS and BRADLEY. No SPEED given :rolleyes: it must be pretty fast. As my last post Refs. showed they had more powerful engines progressively from the A109A5/A5+. Recommend SPEED adjusted accordingly but I wouldn't say as fast as the ABRAMS OR BRADLEY but maybe faster then we think.)
https://www.army.mil/article/146200/Army_accepts_delivery_of_first_M109A7_Self_Propell ed_Howitzer_system/
https://www.baesystems.com/en-us/product/m109a7

Work in Progress...

M109A6 PALADIN/START JUN 1993/STILL IN SERVICE/END DATE 2030+/SPEED INCREASE MIGHT BE NEEDED PER Refs. BELOW/THE CHASSIS IS A MODIFIED EXTENDED UPARMORED ONE USED ON THE FAASV/WAIT/READY/THE FAASV IS BUILT FROM THE ORIGNAL M109 CHASSIS.//
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m109a6.htm
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m109a6-specs.htm
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/m109a6_paladin.htm
(You have to be careful they tend to use initial production dates for START not FOC.)
http://www.deagel.com/Artillery-Systems/M109A6-Paladin_a000544001.aspx
(Expected service to at least 2030.)
https://asc.army.mil/web/portfolio-item/m109-family-of-vehicles-paladinfaasv-and-m109a7-sph-m992a3-cat/
(Conversion of M109A6 to M109A7 to have started in OCT 2017.)
https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/docs/bnE043AA.htm
(The ARMY Plan.)

When you look at pictures of the FAASV and M109 you can see the resemblance especially with the now I forgot which, either M109A5/A5+ or M109A6 which had the chassis extended. Sad thing is when I posted on these not quite 10yrs. ago I believe, I mentioned that about the chassis

Don hope this helped I'm sure my EDIT CLOCK is running low. Does this mean I can have my M109A5/A5+ now!?! Yup right up to the end!! :p

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Please in advance excuse the "dumb" question. I found a good article on the ABBOT (Posted below with pictures of it doing something.) so I decided to check it out in the Great Britain OOB, where I came across ABBOT TROOP UNIT 198. I see it's labeled as an O/M unit, which is fine, but I always thought in the game like "RL" if it was an SPA unit, it benefited from any armor value it had to protect in counter battery attacks much as it's on map counter part would, in this case UNIT 401.

Am I off base in my thinking here?
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar-uk-fv433-abbot-spg/

Something to get my mind off DORIAN for the time being, before she shows up uninvited somewhere around late Monday early Tuesday morning.

I know some of you out here are in the same potential boat as us, prepare , pay attention and most importantly stay safe!!

DORAIN isn't content to be a second place finisher thus far in the "wind speed" category, she's just off the pace by less than 3-5mph.

Some of us might be off line for awhile, so to everyone else, have a great week!! :D

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Mobhack]

Abbots were available ~10 years before the 105 light gun - otherwise you would be stuck with the 105 pack howitzer 65-75. The pack has less range, so would be counter-batteried easily and unable to reach most opponents if firing C/B itself.

Why the light gun took so long when it was already available on the Abbot - probably finances?. Also - the Italian OTO 105 pack howitzer was a NATO standardisation, lots of folk bought them because of that agreement - and then spent their time modifying them to suit, welding them up (and so losing the pack ability) since they fell apart if towed too much behind vehicles or too fast, adding muzzle brakes since they were fired on max charge more than designed (so as to achieve any useful range) before binning them and replacing with proper artillery pieces.

[DRG]

There are a number of SPA used as Off Map arty in the various OOB's......sometimes it's all you have....sometimes it's the best unit to use. Just because it is armoured doesn't mean you cannot use it as an off-map asset

[Suhiir]

The US 175mm while not armored is self-propelled, and it's intended primarily for counter-battery.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

While I REALLY appreciate the feedback, what I was trying to figure out is the following...

Does an armored off map SPA unit benefit from being armored when it is being "counter battered" by the AI or Player?

Does the "code" allow for this?

I know if the "same" unit, ABBOT for instance to stay on point, is on the map, it's armor protection is taken into account as assigned to that unit when being attacked.

Survivability is the bottom line I guess w/o "mucking up" my question any further.

Just trying to figure out how some of this works is all within the programing.

Outside of this main topic noted above,
I do understand the point with regular "field artillery" though many modern large caliber light weight artillery (M177 is a great example of this capability.) can be fired and moved before with minimal or no loss a majority of the time. Even in the game, not all those units are necessarily destroyed fully in the first counter battery salvo or second one.

THANKS!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Mobhack]

There are only off-map batteries, no "SP" or "Armoured" or any other differentiation other than maybe a pretty picture.

UK used the 105 light gun in SPA arty, while concurrently being lumbered with the underwhelming OTO-Melera pack thing in towed batteries, before introducing the light gun as a towed unit to replace them (M119 in its USA version IIRC).

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Andy thank you very much! I'm one for knowing "how things work" and your answer clarifies one of those "mysteries" of the programing side that's not one of my strengths when it comes to computers. As I've said before, I'm more about the security side of things.

What I liked about the ABBOT was that it was fully amphibious using the attached fitted skirts (Similar that was to what they used on SHERMAN tank in D-Day) and it had as standard equipment for many years and "A maximum of 42 rounds were carried aboard the ‘Abbot’ (36 HE and 6 HESH). In normal operations, however, only 40 rounds were usually carried (32 HE and 6 HESH). The rounds were stored around the inside of the turret and the hull." from the ref., with the HESH rounds being fairly effective against some of the armor of the time.

SPA that can somewhat defend itself, what a concept!?! And fun to use in the game, when given no choice in the matter. ;)

Thank you again Andy!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[MarkSheppard]

New US Army SPH M1299 based on the M109 series. 155mm 58 caliber barrel. The XM1299 is part of the Army's Extended Range Cannon Artillery (ERCA) program.

LINK (https://www.armyrecognition.com/weapons_defence_industry_military_technology_uk/analysis_m1299_155mm_52_caliber_tracked_self-propelled_howitzer_extended_range_cannon_artillery .html)

I wouldn't be adding it to the game just yet. The US has a long history of cancelled projects. :rolleyes:

During a firing test Yuma Proving Ground in Arizona in March 2019, the M1299 gun nailed targets with pinpoint accuracy at a range of 62 kilometers, offering a greater range compared to the M109A7 Paladin which has maximum firing range of 30 km and for 40 km with the M982 Excalibur guided artillery shell for the M777 light towed howitzers.

...

The M1299 tracked self-propelled howitzer has a fully-automatic ammunition loading system. It loads both projectiles and charges. This automatic loading system increased the rate of fire from 3 Rounds Per Minute (RPM) on the M109A7 to 10 rpm.

The M1299 continues the use of 155 mm caliber of ammunition but it will use new XM1113 rocket-assisted artillery projectiles. In June 2019, General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems (GD-OTS) awarded a contract for Prototype and Process Development for the 155mm XM1113 Rocket-Assisted Projectile (RAP) round.

...

The XM1113 RAP uses rocket technology to deliver greater thrust to the round when compared to its predecessor, the legacy M549A1.

This will enable current U.S. Field Artillery 155mm Systems to fire the XM1113 RAP to a range of 40 kilometers, a 30% increase from the M549A1.

When fired from the planned future Extended Range Artillery Cannon (ERCA) [aka XM1299], the XM1113 will achieve ranges out to 70 kilometers.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

That's all well and good, however, I've "gone down this road" many, many times through the years and the fact is precision type munitions and extended ranges don't matter within the games parameters. The player has control of artillery accuracy when setting up the game/campaign (I set mine at 90%.) and I know Don determines the ranges based on the info presented within the "context" of the games parameter's.

The Rheinmetall/Denel Land Systems also at the end of November just set three distance world records on two different 155mm/52 SPA platforms (The SADF G6 took top honors at 76km.) and on a FH 155mm/39. This is an important distinction to the above post, ALL three records were set using conventional munitions.

I've also said for years and years South Africa produces some of the very best artillery systems in the world. I'd take a G-series SPA against anyone's in the Cold War/Current Era.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/november_2019_global_defense_security_army_news_in dustry/rheinmetall_sets_three_new_distance_records_for_in direct_fire_in_south_africa.html

But again it doesn't really matter in the long run for us overall.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

But again it doesn't really matter in the long run for us overall.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Yep.....63.5km - 64.4km = 255 ( maximum value allowed )

[Suhiir]

That's really the "key" to counter-battery in WinSPMBT.
Range.
If your off-map artillery has a better range then the opposition you're much less likely to receive counter-battery.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Was checking the news before "hitting the rack" with my new assignment for now. I'm holding off posting anything on the news front until the patch is ready, especially if overlaps anything done already.

But the next is a safe item and of something I've heard about but, never realized it existed. So I hope you enjoy the video!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHTFR0ClTyE#action=share

Enjoy and Good Night!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Suhiir]

The problem with artillery/guns is the necessary case thickness (durability) to withstand explosive acceleration limits the amount of explosive each shell can have. Additionally if traveling 1500km heating from air friction is going to be a major issue. Railguns already have a problem with their solid rounds vaporizing if not made from very specific, and expensive, materials.

Currently the standard aircraft bomb averages around 250-500kg of explosive, the 155mm artillery warhead has around 7kg. So you'd need about 36-70 155mm's to do the damage of one bomb. And even with GPS (or whatever) hitting a point target at 1500km is going to be problematic. A 250kg bomb can "afford" to miss by 10-20m, a 155mm warhead can't.

Nice project, I'm sure some valuable data will be collected from the research, but don't expect to see a practical, functional, gun anytime soon.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Came across this article concerning Spain's first firing of the EXPAL 155mm ER ammo from their SIAC 155/52 towed howitzer. This firing was postponed from 2020 due to our "friend" COVID-19. This took place during maneuvers earlier this month.

But, that is not the news here, Spain's UNIT062 ATP M109A5E is however, the real story here...
"The same exercise will later take place with the ATP M-109 A5E self-propelled howitzer, once the program underway to change the tubes of this veteran platform is completed."

They're going from the current 155/32mm to the 155mm/52 on the ATP M109A5E. They're NOT going to re-tube those units with what is now an outdated tube or manufacture 2 to different sized shells.

My best guess for now is the new tubes should be installed between APR-JUN 2022.

I also would expect the EXPAL 155mm ER to be tested on a ATP M109A5E by years end.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_june_2021_global_security_army_indust ry/spanish_army_artillery_first_fires_expal_155_mm_er _ammunition.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[MarkSheppard]

https://defense-studies.blogspot.com/2021/10/vietnam-unveils-locally-made-self.html?m=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjervoB6BDI

PTH-130 - K255B (Vietnamese: Pháo Tự Hành 130 ly - Khung Gầm KrAZ-255/English: KrAZ-255-mounted 130mm self-propelled field gun) of Vietnam People Army making a surprise apperance on a QPVN channel. The PTH130-K225B 130mm SPG developed by the Military Technical Institute.

The Vietnamese SPG strongly resembles Cuba's Jupiter V SPG and is implied to be based upon it due to Cuban-Vietnamese military cooperation. Both use the older Soviet M1954 (M-46) 130mm towed field gun as their main weapon.

The intention to create the PTH130-K225B can be traced back to 2017 after it was announced that plans would be made to do so following the successful trials of the PTH105 (old American 105mm howitzers on the chassis of a Ural).

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEjNNs8tpeVlAilY7QShAf4WAgLn2pJdr93D1H4LHxkKl0 O2yRZz7rwOajHmANZmxLWuIV5GdA-E_PWKFcqILpIK1MS6WzmFUXtykDRzJrnDVpCdpWmvKpGmAHAk_ B_vdEGRwHR-zpxp3yIm_blJ-4ZMqVXwksxWkwJ3DvTi8-4CjStc-WP3cyUlybn-=s1039

[MarkSheppard]

PHL-16 MRL confirmed in service in Xinjiang earlier this week.

https://i.imgur.com/ztBiBkF.jpg

Basically, this started out as the AR-3 commercial/export MRL by NORINCO back in 2010.

It wasn't actually shown in Chinese service until the 2019 National Day Parade; where unlabelled units paraded.

The PHL-16 appears to be the replacement for the earlier 12x300mm PHL-03 MRL.

What makes the PHL-16 different is that the PHL-16 has two modular launch cells; with each cell carrying either:

5 x 300mm Rockets
4 x 370mm Rockets

The export version (AR-3) offers:

750mm Fire Dragon 480 Tactical Ballistic Missile
380mm TL-7B Anti Ship Missile

But it's not known if the PLA(N) bought these.

BTW -- Chinese Unit 742 A-100 Platoon is incorrect.

The PLA tested out the A-100 in trials in the early 2000s; but it wasn't selected for service with the PLA; that honor going to the PHL-03 (Type 03) system. However, if you want to keep it without deleting the unit entry; may I suggest changing the exit date to December 2003; so that the A-100 can represent the "trials" vehicles.

[MarkSheppard]

Next in the saga of 70 KILOMETRE GUNNERY

Izvestia reports that state trails of the 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV SPH will begin next year and are schedule to be completed on September 30, 2022. Koalitsiya-SV is fitted with a 152mm 2A88 gun with a reported max firing range of 70-80km (RAP).

https://iz.ru/1259811/aleksei-ramm-bogdan-stepovoi/udarnaia-ustanovka-v-rossii-nachinaiutsia-gosispytaniia-sau-koalitciia-sv

[Pibwl]

obat51 Slovakia:

143,144 RM-70 Modular - the first was delivered in 5/2005, the whole series was delivered by 2007 (now 114 or 116). https://www.valka.cz/topic/view/12992
I assume, the Slovaks got them with rockets and they should have been ready around 2007.

[MarkSheppard]

OBAT 066 Sweden

Unit 386 RBS-103 Patriot has IOCed with the Swedish military as of 17 December 2021.

Also:

Unit 189 RBS-56 TI ATGM
Unit 203 RBS-56B ATGM

It appears that the BILL system was removed from service in 2013 by the Swedish military as a cost cutting measure and the excess units sold to SAAB.

It seems that the Swedish armed forces have changed their mind on that. The RBS-56 BILL systems are being bought back from SAAB, albeit with new sighting systems and other modifications.

This is intended to be an interim solution until the MMP ATGM becomes available from 2025 onwards.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I believe of the systems from the following ref. only the SA-12 Gladiator S-300V 9K81 air defense missile system would amount to a new addition to the Ukraine OOB. The tracked launchers were built in Ukraine at the "home" of Soviet T-72 design & production. These are likely to be coming from Poland and possibly also the Baltic States. I would expect these to be either the S-300V3 or S-300V4 versions. https://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_russian_missile_system_vehicle_uk/s-300v_9k81_antey-300_sa-12_gladiator_giant_air_defense_missile_system_data _pictures_video.html

The one "I'm on the fence about" is the SA-14 Gremin 9K34 Strela-3 (What version?) MANPADS Man-portable air defense missile system.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_russian_army_light_heavy_weapons_uk/sa-14_gremlin_9k34_strela-3_man-portable_air_defense_missile_data.html

The full article...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_march_2022_global_security_army_indus try/us_and_nato_allies_to_send_sa-8_sa-10_sa-12_sa-14_air_defense_missiles_to_ukraine.html

The "No Fly Zone" and fighters are a dead issue here. However the conversation is shifting towards Med Rng. SAMs, I can see this on the horizon. We've seeded Poland and the Baltic states with our PATRIOTs and those countries have plenty of Soviet/Russian era Med and Long Rng. SAM systems available for use by the Ukrainians w/o the training down time.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Weapons in this thread in support of the Ukraine is starting to move more quickly in the last 2 weeks.

So, here's what's been sent thus far (The only thing new might be that the Ukraine is operating the SA-8 Gecko with the more advanced... "The 9M33M3 missile greatly enhances the altitude engagement envelope to 10 – 12,000 m, and as such are also able to fly further (about 15 km/9 miles) but the system is not able to engage targets at longer ranges, due to other factors such as the radar tracking of the missiles." This quote taken from the last ref. on weapon performance. And will be soon operating the UK Starstreak MANPAD.

Hopefully in timeline order (It is now) as posted by the ref.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_march_2022_global_security_army_indus try/uk_to_provide_starstreak_man-portable_air_defense_missile_systems_to_ukraine.ht ml
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_march_2022_global_security_army_indus try/slovakia_agrees_to_provide_its_s-300_air_defense_missile_systems_to_ukraine.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_march_2022_global_security_army_indus try/uk_to_deploy_sky_sabre_air_defense_missile_system_ in_poland_to_protect_its_airspace.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_march_2022_global_security_army_indus try/germany_requests_new_weapon_systems_to_us_includin g_thaad_air_defense_missile_systems.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_march_2022_global_security_army_indus try/us_in_talks_with_slovakia_and_bulgaria_to_provide_ s-300_air_defense_missile_systems_to_ukraine.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_march_2022_global_security_army_indus try/germany_and_nertherlands_to_deploy_patriot_missile s_in_slovakia_to_strengthen_air_defense_in_eastern _europe.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_march_2022_global_security_army_indus try/us_sent_soviet-made_air_defense_missile_systems_to_ukraine_secret ly_acquired_in_the_past.html

That should catch it up from my last post.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

New Weapon system Porn

https://youtu.be/10g3PtrhN1Y

That does pretty much what the switchblades added to three of the OOB's will do

( and pretty much ( sort of.....) what the Israelis have been able to do for 40 years )

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Alright S-300 systems the Ukraine has or will have by tomorrow.

Ukraine has operated the S-300PMU which is a 2nd GEN improved model equivalent to the SOVIET/Russian S-300PS/SA-10B and made available in 1989.
Russia and the Ukraine are the only operators of this system.

Slovakia (Not Slovenia as I earlier posted.) operate the more advanced S-300PMU-1 the big difference here is in the radar tracking system. From Ref. 2 ...
"The SA-10D, later redesignated SA-20 Gargoyle, was subjected to what Russian sources describe as a deep modernization with design changes to most key components of the system. The aim was to improve its basic capabilities as a SAM, extend radar and engagement footprints, increase the level of automation in the system, and introduce an anti-ballistic missile capability against ballistic missiles with re-entry speeds of up to 2.8 km/sec. It is intended to engage combat aircraft at all altitudes, cruise missiles and tactical ballistic missiles, making it an equivalent to the PAC-1 and PAC-2 Patriot variants."

Operators of both systems from both refs:
The S-300PMU is in service with Russia and Ukraine. The improved S-300PMU-1 has been exported to China, Greece, Slovakia and Vietnam.
http://www.military-today.com/missiles/s300_pmu.htm
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Grumble-Gargoyle.html#mozTocId106894
(Missile weapons chart sorted by system near bottom above S-300P/S-400 tech data section.
ALSO NOTE SLOVAKIAN SYSTEM above Almaz S-300PMU / SA-10B/C Grumble B/C launcher system section.

So, Ukraine now operates both systems.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Day in an day out I never stop adding new equipment to that OOB

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I feel you REALLY understand why I shifted back to "my" thread starters. I'm just trying really hard to only post what I know they have from as many reliable sources my brain can handle at this time.

I remember very early on someone posted that the Ukraine got the DANA M2 8x8 SPAA system. Well, that's partially true for test and evaluation just before the war if they received if at all maybe handful of them. I can confirm DENMARK got them last year I believe and it ain't the old DANA. If interested let me know, I'll post it in the appropriate thread if taken for action.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_november_2020_global_security_army_in dustry/ukraine_shows_interest_to_purchase_polish-made_krab_155mm_self-propelled_howitzer.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_april_2021_global_security_army_indus try/ukraine_progressing_in_testing_dana-m2_self-propelled_howitzer.html

War is Hell and as I came across a post that thrilled me to death, like all wars they come at a cost. It appears the fallout from this one has occurred.

Just an add on about S-300PMU-1 I'm a deep miner. :D
https://worldnewsera.com/automobile/ukraine-situation-report-slovakias-donated-s-300-surface-to-air-missile-system-is-on-its-way/
Para 13 discusses the overall artillery situation about foreign artillery options for the Ukraine. Not in this but my files the Polish KRAB K-9 was also considered in 2020. Good info throughout concerning German situation and POTENTIAL sales about two paras above this one I think was.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Alright S-300 systems the Ukraine has or will have by tomorrow.

Ukraine has operated the S-300PMU which is a 2nd GEN improved model equivalent to the SOVIET/Russian S-300PS/SA-10B and made available in 1989.
Russia and the Ukraine are the only operators of this system.

Slovakia (Not Slovenia as I earlier posted.) operate the more advanced S-300PMU-1 the big difference here is in the radar tracking system. From Ref. 2 ...
"The SA-10D, later redesignated SA-20 Gargoyle, was subjected to what Russian sources describe as a deep modernization with design changes to most key components of the system. The aim was to improve its basic capabilities as a SAM, extend radar and engagement footprints, increase the level of automation in the system, and introduce an anti-ballistic missile capability against ballistic missiles with re-entry speeds of up to 2.8 km/sec. It is intended to engage combat aircraft at all altitudes, cruise missiles and tactical ballistic missiles, making it an equivalent to the PAC-1 and PAC-2 Patriot variants."

Operators of both systems from both refs:
The S-300PMU is in service with Russia and Ukraine. The improved S-300PMU-1 has been exported to China, Greece, Slovakia and Vietnam.
http://www.military-today.com/missiles/s300_pmu.htm
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Grumble-Gargoyle.html#mozTocId106894
(Missile weapons chart sorted by system near bottom above S-300P/S-400 tech data section.
ALSO NOTE SLOVAKIAN SYSTEM above Almaz S-300PMU / SA-10B/C Grumble B/C launcher system section.

So, Ukraine now operates both systems.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:


https://bulgarianmilitary.com/2022/04/11/donated-slovak-s-300s-to-ukr-destroyed-25-soldiers-were-hit-russia/

The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation claims that the S-300 anti-aircraft missile systems donated by Slovakia to Ukraine have already been destroyed after the missile strikes.


Maybe true......... maybe not


https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/russia-ukraine-crisis/slovakia-brushes-off-russias-claim-of-destroying-s-300-defence-system-provided-to-ukraine-articleshow.html

Slovakia Brushes Off Russia's Claim Of Destroying S-300 Defence System Provided To Ukraine
Slovakia's Prime Minister Eduard Heger denied Russia's claim of destroying the S-300 defence system which was handed over to Ukraine amid the ongoing war.

Slovakia's Prime Minister Eduard Heger, on Monday, denied Russia's claim of destroying the S-300 defence system which was handed over to Ukraine amid the ongoing war. "Slovakia categorically denies Russian propaganda that the S-300 defence system in Ukraine has been destroyed. This is a hoax. It has been officially confirmed by Ukraine," Heger wrote in a Twitter post.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I'm not buying it.

The timeline just doesn't quite fit from when they got into country to have gotten all the way to Eastern Ukraine in, like a day, I'm not so sure about that being reality.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I can confirm now that the Ukraine is now operating these and that the Czech Republic OOB needs it added START JAN 2018.
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/dana.htm
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/dana_m1_cz.htm
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_april_2022_global_security_army_indus try/czech_republic_has_donated_dana_152mm_wheeled_self-propelled_howitzers_to_ukraine.html

WITH MY HEAD "BOBBING", I somehow managed to do separate posts and the one with the least amount of info was this one.

Ukraine was conducting an evaluation of the DANA M1 CZ for a few months before the war. The DANA M1 CZ went service on JAN 2018 with the Czech Republic.

The Ukrainians put the DANA M1 CZ into service this month along with additional units also shipped in from the Czech Republic. Ukraine START APR 2022.

I understand this might get in this cycle; I'll get it done on my end.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Simply a most interesting article and I have to admit the performance of the Ukrainian Kvitnyk laser-guided shells have exceeded my expectations and I suspect some of the Western militaries as well. Some of the videos I've seen certainly and literally made me say WHhaat!?! Anyway, a good read.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-s-artillery-might-be-winning-the-war-with-russia/ar-AAWEvnm?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=1774e91ae7a94f31b616eacdf818ddc1
https://ukroboronprom.com.ua/en/product/kvitnik
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/04/05/one-shot-one-kill-ukrainian-gunners-fire-laser-guided-shells-at-russian-vehicles/?sh=3327c09140fd
(Watch the video and as this article indicates at the 38s mark, you'll see the laser "sparkle" drop on target center screen.)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Karagin]

Not saying I believe anything this guy has posted or even claims, but now according to his reports we, the US, have given the Ukrainians M270 MRLS along with all the other stuff.

https://medium.com/@x_TomCooper_x/uk...2-885784cdc601

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Highly unlikely that the Ukraine either has or will have the M270 MRLS/or M142 HIMARS or both.

For one by law, they have to be reported and still approved for foreign sales by the State Dept. before POTUS approves the sale. He's not going to risk any "political capital" at a time when Congress as of yesterday just took up what I believe will be the largest weapons package to date that the President has thus far asked approval for. He has bi-partisan support for this bill which will put us at ~4.2 billion dollars since the war started.

Also, you need to realize 1. There's been no discussion on that equipment with exception that President Zelinsky had just asked about these weapons maybe a week ago.

Well I can ensure any reader that there's NO WAY we can "dumb down" those systems in a week, ship them and have them trained on these platforms.

I believe Mr. Cooper has overestimated our capabilities.

Here's what I think they'll receive and it's hot off the wire from yesterday. TAIWAN will be receiving the M1A2T (The 1st tanks we've sent them in 25-30yrs.) (Along with this tank we also entered the M1A2P with both in their respective OOB's. The Australian M1A2A however at this time is not in the OOB because their MOD has stated it won't reach IOC until sometime in 2025.) but also slated for delivery was the PALIDAN M109A6.

That however isn't going to happen at this time though I suspect we might send them possibly the M777A2 as a consolation prize. Those M109A6 will be "dumbed down" though how many are ready to be shipped based on delivery dates that were set for Taiwan is unknown.

The article does mention production line issues so this could mean we need to replenish our own equipment, or the Ukraine will be receiving more M777 pieces as another option.

"The first eight howitzers for Taiwan were scheduled for delivery in 2023, 16 in 2024, and the last 16 in 2025. These howitzers form part of the first arms package for Taiwan to be approved by the Biden administration since it assumed power in January 2021."

Here's the read...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_may_2022_global_security_army_industr y/us_m109a6_155mm_howitzers_planned_for_taiwan_could _help_ukraine_in_its_fight_against_russian_army.ht ml

NETHERLAND confirms...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_may_2022_global_security_army_industr y/netherlands_confirms_the_supply_of_pzh_2000_155mm_ tracked_howitzers_to_ukraine.html

NORWAY will send ...
The M109A3GN 155mm (Updated version from the German M109A3G.) which was in the process to come out of service this year or just did this past year. The Netherlands will retain the more highly updated M109A3GNM 155mm (14) (For now.) and newer K9 155mm (24).

Based on the following looks like we'll be doing our training of the Ukrainians in Germany ...
But first, "These efforts build on the initial artillery training that Ukraine's forces already have received elsewhere and also includes..."

Translation, they're using our M777.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_may_2022_global_security_army_industr y/us_troops_train_ukrainians_on_radar_systems_and_ar mored_vehicles_in_germany.htm

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Let me know when one is actually seen in Ukraine

https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_april_2022_global_security_army_indus try/denmark_plans_to_donate_its_piranha_iii_wheeled_ar mored_vehicles_to_ukraine.html

Denmark plans to donate Piranha III 8x8

No word on when but within a year the UKrainian OOB is going to be a dogs breakfast of military equipment

[DRG]

The article does mention production line issues so this could mean we need to replenish our own equipment, or the Ukraine will be receiving more M177 pieces as another option.


Translation, they're using our M177.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_may_2022_global_security_army_industr y/us_troops_train_ukrainians_on_radar_systems_and_ar mored_vehicles_in_germany.htm

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Pat.......WTF is a M177 ?

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

All now fixed in my last post as M777.

Tracking all of this, thank God at least these systems use basically the same ammo-generally.

Sorry for error.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Ya had me confused with that 177. Thinking I missed something earlier

but of course....... M777 IS what's in the OOB along with its own Icon

[Aeraaa]

Well, there was an XM-177 (or CAR-15), but I doubt sending Vietnam era carbines would be of any help to Ukraine...:P

[Karagin]

Well, there was an XM-177 (or CAR-15), but I doubt sending Vietnam era carbines would be of any help to Ukraine...:P

Do they still function? If they do, then they are weapons to put into the fight, so they would get used. At this point Ukraine can't be choosey about what they get, they are begging for help.

[Aeraaa]

Well, there was an XM-177 (or CAR-15), but I doubt sending Vietnam era carbines would be of any help to Ukraine...:P

Do they still function? If they do, then they are weapons to put into the fight, so they would get used. At this point Ukraine can't be choosey about what they get, they are begging for help.

I think Ukraine is in dire need of big guns and AT weapons, small arms are probably better than nothing but will not change things much.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Alright, a little background before the story. The U.S. M777 155mm made "heads turn" when it was fielded. It was arguably one of or the lightest field howitzer in the world being highly mobile giving it a "shoot and scoot" capability with a very high rate of fire.

So that remains unchanged today but, that was the M777 that shot conventional artillery rounds.

So, while the EXCALIBUR precision munition was starting evaluation and testing the U.S. fielded the M777A1. The difference (Main) was it mounted a digital FCS vice an optical one. It would only be fielded for no more than 3 years.

EXCALIBUR was coming online so the M77A1 had to be modernized too the M777A2 by conversion and production of new systems.

The M777A2 had a modernized version of the digital FCS that added the software that the GPS guided EXCALIBUR needed to be fired. There's more to than this, but it's important for accuracy to "know where you are" the rest I'll leave to you to figure out, but EXCALIBUR and similar advanced munitions have a very, very, very small CEP.
https://www.military-today.com/artillery/m777.htm

So, can you guess who now operates the M777A2 with EXCALIBUR?

Ukraine, I submitted this weapon (M777A2 w/EXCALIBUR) for Australia, and they were the first export customer to receive
it. And it appears so did CANADA which is sending more (And for Don, we're replacing them with new ones.)

I've always pointed out that nomenclature is important when it comes to equipment. A prime example is the F-104D added to the USA OOB. Because it was the first version to carry the weapons it is equipped with in the game and the type in the "real world".

Also, the game has advanced as well since I submitted M777A2 to the USA/Australia OOB's. We debated the EXCALIBUR principle, and I got the name. Which was fine then as now.

Point is now we have an operational NLOS and I would very respectfully suggest what really is the difference now?

Except a whole lot of work. So there's the rub.

But if the day should come, ever the optimist, I'll keep submitting the proper nomenclature and be factually correct and see where the game might be down the road.

To be clear not everyone got the M777A2, I'm sure INDIA only received the M777.

Gotta requal on my weapons in the morning so I'm going to enjoy the rest of the night and check my PELTOR noise cancelling range headphones (Wished I had them years before I got them. Such a difference.) and look forward to a bonus night home.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Andy and I have exchanged some ideas on this and we will explore it further in the coming months but we really need a break for a while.

This started out as an idea to apply to advanced SPA systems but may apply to arty like the M77A2

What I need to investigate is if these systems using GPS targeting have the ability to fire at a target, scoot to a new firing position, set up and range on that exact same target with no delay after stopping. Related to that is the time it takes to set up an M777 in a new position

What this could mean is with a simple entry of 100 to arty FC , like SPAA gets radar, that would give Arty GPS targeting which in game terms would mean that guns with that rating would not lose the Barrage target lock they do now when they move. If they had fired once they get to the new location they would be able to pick up the targets they had locked in before they moved

The AI with those weapons systems would be given a much shorter countdown when picking new targets

As I said it's a WIP ( but not so much right now............)


What was most interesting in that MT article was

1/ Canada was the first nation to employ the M777 in combat ( news to me...)

and

2/ "most of the damage inflicted on the Taliban was reportedly caused by only two guns."

[DRG]

And related to that

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ukraine-troops-shelling-russians-with-american-howitzers-wd5jvthll

17 hours ago — American howitzers have begun shelling Russian positions while Ukrainian soldiers have received jammers to shoot down enemy reconnaissance ...

and.........

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/05/07/ukraine-made-exactly-one-copy-of-its-best-cannon-it-just-joined-the-war/?sh=705954e36710n

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16722&stc=1&d=1652174296

[DRG]

https://www.israeldefense.co.il/en/node/44233

http://www.military-today.com/artillery/2s43_malva.htm

[blazejos]

This nice icon is great :up:

2S22 is know by nickname Bogdana

http://www.military-today.com/artillery/bogdana.htm

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

"The M777 requires three minutes to emplace, and two to three minutes to displace. The maximum rate of fire for the M777 is 4 rounds per minute for up to 2 minutes; the sustained rate of fire is 2 rounds per minute."

"Indirect fire for the M777A1 and A2 is usually aimed using the digital fire control system. It provides rapid and accurate ballistic computation, navigation, pointing, and self-location capabilities, which allows the M777A1/A2 to perform effective fire missions rapidly, reducing the amount of time it must be emplaced in a given location. "

Using "military" GPS you're talking about a 2-3 seconds or less for target reacquisition time provided the target is still being "lased" and for the piece to reposition itself. So, assume 3 minutes to displace/+ ~2-3 minutes to move at least 100 meters or more based on terrain/+ 3 minutes to emplace.

So about 8-9 minutes. Real world we'd be using Counter Battery Jamming equipment, so you might not have to move right away, which the player can also chose to do with them on the map. And off map doesn't "shoot and scoot" anyway.

Again, from and in paras 14 & 15 ...
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/m777.htm

I'll see if I can find something from the army side.

It is worth noting...
"A crew of 8 is required to operate the M777 normally. It can also be operated by as few as 5 men in an emergency, but with a significantly reduced rate of fire. Some publications have stated that the ability of the M777 to be fired by only 5 personnel is unprecedented for a 155 mm howitzer, but the preceding M198 could also be operated as such. "

I'm hopefully going to relax the rest of this evening and enjoy my bonus night with you know who after of course a relaxing walk.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

WW2 25 pounder


Accepted rate of fire was 5 rounds per minute, but average thoughout the firestorm in Normandy was 12 rpm, with one documented case in 4th Field of an incredible 17 rounds fired by one gun in one minute
I know the background to that story and the crew ( Canadian ) was very motivated to set the record

Now that was a much smaller shell but 12-17 rounds per gun is a lot of hurt especially when you consider that a commonwealth FOO had the power to order a fire mission barrages beyond army level

Multi-battery Concentrations
Targets engaged by two or more batteries were called 'concentrations' in British terminology. Until 1942 the procedures for concentrations against impromptu targets were not particularly slick, although there was a choice of several methods developed from the mid-1920's onwards, and concentrations of several RFA brigades had been achieved in 1914. Nevertheless, in May 1940 a British regiment destroyed a refueling panzer battalion in what is generally recognised as the first successful use in war of a wireless controlled concentration on an impromptu target. However, in 1941 Brig HJ Parham, the CRA of 38 Division, invented and tested new procedures. These culminated in demonstrating a 144 gun concentration against an impromptu target within 5 minutes of the target being called. In mid-1942 XIII Corps conducted further trials and new doctrine was issued is September that year. These concentrations were known as Mike (regiment), Uncle (division), Victor (corps), William (army) and Yoke (AGRA) targets and always initiated by the radio call “Mike Target, Mike Target, Mike Target” (or Uncle, etc) that galvanised CPs and guns to action.

Any observer could request concentrations, however, some observers including Air OPs, were authorised to order them. It was usually Standing Instructions that a BC had this authority for his regiment, troop commanders were given it as required. BCs and COs of medium batteries and regiments were often CRA’s or CCRA’s Representatives and authorised to order the divisional or corps artillery and have communications on the divisional or corps artillery radio net. This authority was sometimes given to field BCs and observers, and there were sometimes CAGRA Representatives (BCs and COs) with similar authority.

Just saying... different time, different guns but as the adage goes "artillery conquers infantry occupies"

[DRG]

This nice icon is great :up:

2S22 is know by nickname Bogdana

http://www.military-today.com/artillery/bogdana.htm\

Thanks and 4940 is perfect for the Russian 2S43 Malva

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Besides the fact that the Pentagon confirmed last week early that at least 80% of the M777A2 155mm WE sent them are in Ukrainian hands.

Also, on the news earlier tonight I briefly saw a Ukrainian crew firing their M77A2 155mm.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/which-ukrainian-troops-are-getting-american-howitzers-the-ones-preparing-for-a-major-counteroffensive/ar-AAXiexG?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=b7b7f1e3a588424e8775513249ba2db6
(Article carried by MSN and Written by FORBES.)

About HIMARS/THAAD it is nothing more than an item on the Ukrainian wish list.

But there will be doubters out here, so I give you the following from the 13th. Before I do this is about what our army wants and not what the Ukraine wants. Here's the title from ref. 2 "Ukraine War Validates Pursuing Very Long-Range Artillery Army Says" we're the ones that need them more.
https://defence.az/ru/news/157092/lockheed-martin-to-provide-us-army-with-additional-himars-and-thaad-missile-systems
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-war-validates-pursuing-very-long-range-artillery-army-says/ar-AAXeICZ
(Article carried by MSN and Written by The Drive)

Additional:
https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htart/articles/20220515.aspx

The irresponsible ...
We have been reenforcing our deployed troops with them and our NATO partners very recently but that's the extent of it. That is of course you want to believe these guys (I was being nice here as some other descriptors come to mind.) though the page 2 comments make me feel REALLY good to be in this Forum-THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!
https://gameruprising.to/index.php?threads/us-transfers-m142-himars-missile-launchers-to-ukraine.37548/

I have a Lunar Eclipse to watch with the Grandson and CINCLANTHOME!!
So have a good night!!

Moon is RED gotta go!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Karagin]

So, in plain English have we (the US) or have we not given them MLRS? I ask because another gaming forum says yes, yet the other articles don't say yes for the US but that Poland and Czech have, so which is it?

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

No we have not given them (HIMARS/THAAD/M270 MLRS) to the Ukrainians NOR can those countries that have them give them to the Ukraine WITHOUT OUR PERMISSION. NATO countries have given them GRADs and other similar Soviet/Russian MLRS equipment that the Ukraine already operates.

Case in point: Denmark had to be given permission from Germany before they could send their PHZ 2000 SPA to the Ukraine which was given and are in country or will be by this week. Also, you may have seen that Germany is already training crews to operate the 7 units they're sending.

As my main refs have indicated, we are taking what's happening in the Ukraine onboard in realizing that we need more of those weapons not only to counter Russia but China as well.

You will EASILY find that NO MANIFEST of weapons we've sent even indicates that HIMARS or THAAD has been shipped to the Ukraine.
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12040#:~:text=Ukraine.%20Since%202018%2C%20Ukrai ne%20has%20used%20FMF%2C%20as,has%20used%20a%20com bination%20of%20FMF%20and%20national
https://thehill.com/policy/international/598524-heres-everything-the-us-is-sending-to-ukraines-military/
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/03/16/fact-sheet-on-u-s-security-assistance-for-ukraine/
(The longer-range artillery system is the M777A2.)
https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/2992414/fact-sheet-us-security-assistance-to-ukraine/

I believe my work is done here for now.

You can put those "game sites" in the same can I put the "irresponsible" labeled one from my last post.

The Lunar Eclipse was awesome and the company unsurpassed. :)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

I had the unit in my master but I have now re-nationalized it.... JUST IN CASE things change ( again )

[blazejos]

Hunting for 155mm M777A2 howitzers already started here Russian movie from drone. That must be very valuable asset for Ukrainians.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1526859578662608897

Russians uses KUB-BLA their own loitering munition https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/uk-news/2022/03/14/russias-kub-bla-kamikaze-drone-intercepted-in-ukraine/

[DRG]

Looks like my June 2022 estimate for the Ukrainian PzH 2000 was pessimistic by a couple of weeks. Reports are saying they are in use now and some suggest there *May* be over 100 of them delivered ( eventually...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TApSej8Meic

[DRG]

Also suggested is that the few 2S35 Koalitsiya the Russians have are based on the T-90 chassis not the Armata and this proves to be a valid point and the wheels are the clue

Armata
https://www.19fortyfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/T-14-Armata-Tank.jpg

T-90m

https://nationalinterest.org/sites/default/files/main_images/april_9th_rehearsal_in_alabino_of_2014_victory_day _parade_558-22.jpg

2S35 Koalitsiya

https://www.janes.com/images/default-source/news-images/fg_3070400-jdw-6184.jpg?sfvrsn=8997e5a5_2

Armata has 7 solid wheels--no indents, T90 6 wheels with 6 indents per wheel

Original info suggested this was to be built on the T-14 but it appears not or there just where not enough T-14 chassis to fill the order so the early versions are hybrids........ time will tell but I will "adjust" the Icon
https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16728&stc=1&d=1652964574

[MarkSheppard]

US Army's Directed Energy Maneuver Short Range Air Defense system (or DE M-SHORAD for short)

LINK (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/raytheon-intelligence--space-and-kord-team-up-to-defeat-multiple-mortars-and-large-drones-with-stryker-mounted-high-energy-laser-301548004.html)

LAS CRUCES, N.M., May 16, 2022 /PRNewswire/ -- In four weeks of continuous live-fire exercises, an industry team led by Raytheon Intelligence & Space, a Raytheon Technologies (NYSE: RTX) business, and Kord, a wholly owned subsidiary of KBR, defeated multiple 60mm mortar rounds with a 50kW-class high energy laser integrated on a Stryker combat vehicle.

The directed energy weapon system — part of the U.S. Army's Directed Energy Maneuver-Short Range Air Defense, or DE M-SHORAD — acquired, tracked, targeted and defeated multiple mortars and successfully accomplished multiple tests simulating real-world scenarios.

Continuing to put the DE M-SHORAD system to the test, the recent operational assessment at White Sands Missile Range also included defeating several small, medium and large drones.

...

The joint industry team, which includes Rocky Research for power and thermal management, General Dynamics Land Systems for the Stryker platform, and Applied Technology Associates for additional sensors, is preparing to deliver four DE M-SHORAD units to Army Brigade Combat Teams in 2022.

===============================

I'm just wondering how battlefield lasers could be handled within the game; you would need special code to handle them; as they'd have different effect levels:

Anti Drone/Mortar/Rocket (50 kW)
Anti-Artillery (150kW)
Anti-Aircraft (300 kW)

i.e. an anti drone 50 kW laser wouldn't be capable of defeating incoming artillery or enemy aircraft; etc

But all three would be able to operate in "blinding" mode -- i.e. be able to degrade a target's FCS -- it's been 30 years since Desert Storm and 25~ since the Chinese/Russians permanently blinded a helicopter pilot; so I'd imagine all modern FCS have anti-laser blocks built in now...

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Mark you would be correct about the anti-lasing tech on FCS and more. Like a radio wave it has a frequency range, pulse rate etc. and like a radio wave if you figure out the above (And more.) you can jam it or interrupt the signal. The Russian Shtora-1 system for example, employs its own laser across the frequency spectrum to disrupt the same from an incoming ATGW.
https://defense-update.com/20051012_shtora-1.html
https://bklein.ece.gatech.edu/laser-photonics/monochromaticity-the-spectrum-of-a-laser-or-other-light-source/

This is like the "classic" battle between people buying radar detectors and the police developing radars that can defeat them so the driver will get that speeding ticket.

I used the Shtora-1 to illustrate how long this has been going on even previous to it. So, using a ATGW of a different sort, the STRIX which uses a multi band radar along with a "backup" optical targeting device.

With lasers we're talking frequency shifts in nano seconds. The targeting against things like FCS in the "space of time" is a newer area in use of lasers to defeat those systems however, like the police, counters are in place against that.

You don't need a war to figure that out. The advanced countries and based on their technologies are all developing offensive counter measures while at the same time developing defensive ones at the same time. That's just simple R&D.

We are seeing this in the practical sense now with the JAVELIN and others versus some of the Russian protection systems.

I've seen the video on mainstream news of this concerning one of Russia's most advanced jets, you judge for yourselves who's winning the technology war.
https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-su34-jets-basic-gps-receivers-taped-to-dashboards-uk-2022-5
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/43921/all-crazy-quirks-and-features-on-russias-su-34-fullback-strike-fighter
(And several have been shot down.)

I would have to think this would be a tall order to get this to work in the game. Also, nobody yet has successfully fielded a practical system yet and for us the USN is further along than the rest I believe. I also believe those systems at this time and into the near future would have a hard time against multiply targets.

"Don Sherlock Holmes" that was a fine piece of detective work!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well, it appears the M777A2 artillery systems we sent DID NOT COME WITH THE COMPUTER AIDED TARGETING SYSTEM. So it can't for instance fire EXCALIBUR with the precision the computer would've allowed for. But as the article notes they are getting precision fires because they're getting GPS targeting data from drones and spotters.

If we didn't send them you should understand by now nobody else did either.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-supplied-howitzers-to-ukraine-lack-accuracy-aiding-computers/ar-AAXw6mg?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnbfcL

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

.................But as the article notes they are getting precision fires because they're getting GPS targeting data from drones and spotters.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

While we're on that topic, has anyone used the drones we added last release?

[MarkSheppard]

Mark you would be correct about the anti-lasing tech on FCS and more. Like a radio wave it has a frequency range, pulse rate etc. and like a radio wave if you figure out the above (And more.) you can jam it or interrupt the signal.

I don't think you quite understand.

On Quora, there's a question:

"How quickly can a 10W 450nm laser blind a person or animal?"

"There would be a 50% probability of permanent damage in about 300 nanoseconds. I am not sure whether you call that blinding a person.

In about 500 microseconds, a large thermal burn will occur on the retina, causing a permanent large blind spot, a blood spurting ulcer on the retina, severe pain, and permanent damage to the vitreous humor.

If you missed getting the beam directly into the eye, the beam will hit the sclera, eyelids and other tissues. Within a couple of milliseconds, painful burns will result."

"Instantly. 450nm ~blue/near uv. Specular reflections (reflection off something ball shaped] will find any eye looking. 10W is a LOT of power and even a glint will instantly cause blind spots if not outright blindness. Yes, the damage will be permanent."

The 50 kilowatts (kw) laser used in US army anti-drone stuff is 50,000W: or approximately 5000 times more powerful than the hypothetical 10W laser example cited above.

It doesn't matter if the optical sight used in the fire control system is coated with an anti-laser coating good against that laser; it just means it takes 50 milliseconds longer (number out of nowhere) to burn through to the internals of the system.

At that point; the best thing the optical system can do is to fail gracefully and go "dark" before the damaging laser energy can be transmitted to the crewman's eye(s).

Honestly, at this point; the best defense against laser attacks is to be moving fast enough and erratic enough that it becomes almost impossible for the laser tracker to lock onto an optical/thermal sight or vision block.

[Karagin]

.................But as the article notes they are getting precision fires because they're getting GPS targeting data from drones and spotters.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

While we're on that topic, has anyone used the drones we added last release?

Yes and the two times I have used it one got shot down, and the second it was useful but not gaming changing.

[DRG]

They were not designed to be invulnerable. Players would complain
They were not intended to be game-changing but they can be very useful in targeting arty and NLOS weapons


Movement attracts attention. Don't fly them over enemy lines and if possible start them about 3/4 the way to your front line at high altitude and don't move them unless you have to. Remember they can land just like helos and just like they can in RL so when things get hot drop behind the trees OO LOS

[DRG]

Not related to this threads topic but.........PTKM-1R top- attack antitank mine

https://www.edrmagazine.eu/russia-exhibits-for-the-first-time-abroad-its-ptkm-1r-top-attack-antitank-mine

This mine is made of a transport/launcher element and on the is planted by hand and comes in the form of a cylinder 510 mm high with a diameter of 220 mm, its weight being 19.9 kg of which 2.8 kg is the weight of explosive contained in the warhead. Once the deployment area is reached, the operator plants the mine; he releases the retaining bag, allowing the eight legs that in transport mode are folded along the body to open up. These form the base that gives stability to the PTKM-1R, keeping it in the upright position, two of them hosting seismic sensors. Releasing the bag also allows the four acoustic sensors at the top of the mine transport/launcher element to spring up and deploy into their operational position. After six minutes, the delay mechanism puts the mine in stand-by mode. Vibrations received by acoustic sensors when a vehicles gets closer than 100 meters wake-up the PTKM-1R which enters in combat mode, the upper element tilting by 30 degrees.

The PTKM-1R can destroy targets travelling at a maximum speed of 50 km/h, and is fitted with a self-destroying mechanism that can be programmed from one to 10 days. It can operate at temperatures between –40°C up to 70°C. A typical use is to block a road, platting some mines at a distance between 10 and 40 meters from the road itself, or generating a minefield planting mines at 100 meters distance between them. According to images provided by Rosoboronexport, the PTKM-1R is designed to attack from the top the weakest parts of a main battle tank, therefore the warhead is aimed at the powerpack, which is usually installed at the rear of the MBT and is not much protected, air intakes being normally on the top.


https://www.edrmagazine.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Russsia-PTKM-1R-mine_02.jpg

The only "good" thing about this is it's not buried so it's not exactly a discrete mine being 20 inches tall and seems to be more of a "disabler" than a "destroyer"

[Steves308]

I'm playing a generated campaign game as the USA in 2022 and I just noticed the drones under the scout helo group. So I have bought one for my next round of the campaign and will give a try, interested to see how long it lasts until ka-boom :D

Steves308

[DRG]

Use them conservatively and they will last. They get you eyes on targets even when near the back of your maps side over a wider area than a FO but try to avoid attracting attention. The US switchblades are in the 707 - Ranger Squad and 107 NLOS ATGM Team... They can be effective but they are deliberately not magic bullets

[DRG]

Also suggested is that the few 2S35 Koalitsiya the Russians have are based on the T-90 chassis not the Armata and this proves to be a valid point and the wheels are the clue

Armata
https://www.19fortyfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/T-14-Armata-Tank.jpg

T-90m

https://nationalinterest.org/sites/default/files/main_images/april_9th_rehearsal_in_alabino_of_2014_victory_day _parade_558-22.jpg

2S35 Koalitsiya

https://www.janes.com/images/default-source/news-images/fg_3070400-jdw-6184.jpg?sfvrsn=8997e5a5_2

Armata has 7 solid wheels--no indents, T90 6 wheels with 6 indents per wheel

Original info suggested this was to be built on the T-14 but it appears not or there just where not enough T-14 chassis to fill the order so the early versions are hybrids........ time will tell but I will "adjust" the Icon



FWIW it *appears* that although the wheels may be from the T-90 the hull does indeed appear to be based on the Armata

SPA 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV, SPA 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV with radar, SPA 2S19M2 Msta-S and MLRS 9K515 Tonado-S top view.

https://i.redd.it/rfjhlvhquza51.jpg

The hull is longer than a T-90 but all side shots of that SP show 6 wheels with 6 indents per wheel

https://www.cybermodeler.com/armor/2s35/images/2s35_title.jpg

So the current Icon is correct for hull length though I need to adjust the turret position a bit

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well during this "lull" I got to thinking about what we use to tow the M777 series artillery? Well, it's not an APC since they sit too low to the ground, thus forming a "V" if you will beyond anything more than a trailer.

And if you've towed anything in your life then you know this "V" causes ground clearance, loading/unloading, side to side "swing" and most importantly makes the load unstable. You as close you can make it, NEED a "level plane" between the towing vehicle and the load.

These weapons (M777A2) were sent to the Ukraine with the support vehicles (Tow and ammo trucks.) used by the USA.

And between the USA/USMC they use three different trucks, 2 for the Army and one exclusively (With exception of FMTV for HIMARS) for Marines. Again, these trucks are what both these services use(ed) for many years now for towing artillery and of course by extension, general purpose.

So, from/for the USA ...
https://peoammo.army.mil/tas/Products/m777a2/
https://asc.army.mil/web/portfolio-item/family-of-medium-tactical-vehicles-fmtv/
https://oshkoshdefense.com/vehicles/medium-tactical-vehicles/fmtv/
(The pictures I've seen show the 6x6 VERSION.)
https://oshkoshdefense.com/vehicles/medium-tactical-vehicles/fmtv/fmtv-a2/
(I haven't come across any pictures so far that they're being used for the purpose of this POST.)
http://www.military-today.com/trucks/m1083_mtv.htm
(In a combat environment they'll have the ARMORED cab and likely be equipped with a machine gun.

For the CORPS...
https://oshkoshdefense.com/vehicles/medium-tactical-vehicles/mtvr/
https://www.military-today.com/trucks/oshkosh_mtvr.htm
(I've seen/touched the Tractor version with armored cab, pretty impressive for a truck.)

Maybe it could possibly be a rainy-day thing!?!

And as Don pointed out ...
http://military-today.com/artillery/koalitsija_sv.htm
And uses components of the ...
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t90.htm

This next I believe is finishing up its evaluation testing.
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/koalitsiya_sv_ksh.htm

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Inching closer and closer...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/us-to-transfer-long-range-rocket-systems-to-ukraine-amid-donbas-struggle-reports/ar-AAXPqxO?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=cf33574979f3461d866c5d0beb25d9c9

Also, those HARPOONS are verified to be in country as of yesterday with the mobile launchers apparently as well from Denmark (With our permission.). They can be used against land targets as well. These WILL give the Russians something to think about and plan around in future sea operations.

I'm NOT advocating for these weapons (Or any type of cruise missiles.) for the game since there's no added value except for how expensive they are and you as the player would go broke quickly! That goes for tactical nukes as well, afterall this isn't "Tactics II" or "Sixth Fleet". Those threads are in here somewhere about a decade back or so.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

In this ever-changing situation sources are now confirming that 6 (Another 6 to follow.) French CAESER 6x6 (With "BONUS" rounds and 18 Polish KRABs (3 Ukrainian batteries.) are in the fight. One of the articles pointed out 100 artillery men have been in Poland for some time to get trained on them and their accompanied ammo resupply units (This is true for ALL foreign "donated" artillery. These SPA units are auto fed.)
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/ukraine_already_has_three_batteries_of_krab_spg_po lish_media-3109.html
https://www.rt.com/news/556304-poland-donates-howitzers-ukraine/
https://thenewsglory.com/poland-delivered-18-krab-self-propelled-howitzers-to-ukraine/
Now to the CAESAR first from an earlier discussion on shoot-n-scoot ...
"But for quick shoot-and-scoot fires, a CAESAR crew can begin firing 60 seconds after arriving on position and decamp within 40 seconds. That means a CAESAR unit can begin rolling away less than three minutes after deploying, well before a counterbattery riposte can land."
https://sofrep.com/news/french-firepower-caesar-howitzers-milan-atgms-are-being-sent-to-ukraine/
https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/05/frances-caesar-guns-are-on-the-firing-line-in-ukraine/
https://news.yahoo.com/armed-forces-ukraine-demonstrate-french-121346214.html

Some are suggesting they have also received the Italian modified M109L.

This is not true at this time, however they will get them in the not-too-distant future. This is a unique version in that it doesn't have the existing 23 caliber barrel but was modified with a 39 caliber barrel instead.
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/leonardo-testing-upgraded-m109l-sp-artillery-system
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3729.html
https://www.blindbatnews.com/2022/03/vehicle-i-d-m109-cold-war-and-beyond/87206

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well, POTUS has decided NOT to send HIMARS/or MRLS to the Ukraine for fears they'll be used to target units inside Russian territory. As announced today.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2022/05/30/biden-rules-out-giving-ukraine-rockets-that-can-strike-into-russia/?sh=3ff1413a3711
https://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-seeks-long-range-weapons-143118661.html
https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=852698
https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/russia-ukraine-crisis/joe-biden-says-us-will-not-supply-ukraine-rocket-weapons-capable-of-hitting-russia-articleshow.html

There are a couple of options they can send them with the shorter-range rockets and still accomplish the mission for the Ukraine. Next, we can send them M109A5/A6 which can do the same easily as well.

Why? because those options above and with the recently received SPA systems and those that "are on the way, have all one thing in common they'll for the most part out range anything in the field Russia is using.

Obviously, I'm NOT talking about the
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/smerch.htm
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/9a52_2t_smerch.htm

Which are known to be operating on the Russian border. There are other Russian units NOT YET FIEIDED that will have similar or slightly better ranges then the systems above.

The TORNADO-G has a new rocket in development that'll supposedly reach out to 90km-100km. These (AND THOSE ABOVE.) are ideal for where the battle is now focused on the Eastern part of Ukraine.

There is however a couple of quantifiers dealing with their rocket supply. At the rate they're using them their stocks are running low quickly. Also, if true, the munitions plant that made the rocket propellants was "mysteriously" blown up a couple of months back. The plant was located about 400 miles East of Moscow in the Ural Mountains.
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/tornado_g.htm

The supply issue is reported by U.S./UK and other Defense sources. The plant not so sure without more information.

To my last post the fastest known SPA system is the ARCHER with prep to fire in 30s interval between fires is at or less than 30s so it can fire 2 rounds and "shoot-n-scoot" in ~<2 minutes!
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/archer.htm
(It was one of my earliest submissions I believe in this thread before changing formats.)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[whdonnelly]

I've been playing with the RPAS drones lately. The fact that they are transportable with no cost comes in very handy. Getting an idea of how visible they are to enemy is ongoing, but the spotting function with the switchblades works like a charm.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well after my Post #209 POTUS changed his mind two days later and I started watching to see what would happen. I got my answer about thirty minutes ago The Ukraine has NOW a battery (4) of HIMARS with the extended range 70km rockets. This was part of our new package approved this week.

I'm thinking this was a brilliant "sleight of hand" of disinformation against Russia for which those systems would cross a "red line" with them.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_june_2022_global_security_army_indust ry/us_confirms_delivery_to_ukraine_of_4_m142_himars_r ockets/missiles_launcher_vehicles.html

The following reports what's in the current package and provides a full update as to what we've sent to the Ukraine.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_june_2022_global_security_army_indust ry/us_adds_usd700_mn_in_additional_security_assistanc e_for_ukraine.html

And also, as I offered in the post referenced at top, and this literally just came up, we've given NORWAY permission at some earlier point in time to send the Ukraine their M109A3GN improved SPA systems. Refer back to Para 2, they're also in country on the front.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_june_2022_global_security_army_indust ry/m109_155mm_howitzers_donated_by_norway_are_now_int o_service_with_ukrainian_army.html

They're there and in operation, don't have time to break this down more-I gotta go to work!!!

Regards
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

......and the unit I took out is now back in.........

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Imagine that!?! :rolleyes:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

https://www.businessinsider.com/uk-cutting-edge-guided-rocket-systems-ukraine-putin-russia-war-2022-6

The UK will send guided rocket systems to Ukraine that can hit targets 50 miles away.
In addition to the M270 launchers, the UK will also send M31A1 munitions.

[blazejos]

Here video clip with AHS Krab on Ukrainian front-line service.

https://youtu.be/0_fASHFXVDg


https://ocdn.eu/pulscms-transforms/1/k8hk9kpTURBXy9hNWZjYzkwZDQwMzM3MDIyYTYxMjdjZGNmZTk 5MDIxZC5qcGeSlQMAP80IAM0EgJUCzQOdAMLDgqEwBaExAQ

[webego]

Video clip of the work of the Russian MSTA
https://youtu.be/EeRe9zxyn_U

And a video clip of the work of another Russian artillery
https://youtu.be/ZVamv7o9fMI

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Just a little something from a place called the Salisbury Plain.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/news/ukrainian-troops-train-with-british-army/vi-AAZ21Kk?ocid=msedgdhp&category=foryou

My TGIF!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[blazejos]

And related to that

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ukraine-troops-shelling-russians-with-american-howitzers-wd5jvthll

17 hours ago — American howitzers have begun shelling Russian positions while Ukrainian soldiers have received jammers to shoot down enemy reconnaissance ...

and.........

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/05/07/ukraine-made-exactly-one-copy-of-its-best-cannon-it-just-joined-the-war/?sh=705954e36710n

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16722&stc=1&d=1652174296

Even if 2S22 Bohdana existing only as prototype vehicle in one example, play important function during recent fight for Snake island was used from land to precise shelling island in combination with Byraktar as targeting relay.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2S22_Bohdana
https://www.armyrecognition.com/ukraine_-_russia_conflict_war_2022/discover_ukrainian_bohdana_155mm_howitzer_targetin g_russian_troops_on_snake_island_with_help_of_bayr aktar_drone.html
After retreat of Russians two of their Su-30 destroyed what remain on island with phosphorus bombs.
https://video.fpoz4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t42.1790-2/290653013_432523818741440_578459338192901965_n.mp4 ?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=985c63&efg=eyJybHIiOjMwMCwicmxhIjo1MTIsInZlbmNvZGVfdGFnIj oic3ZlX3NkIn0%3D&_nc_ohc=l9i1tP2Ff_8AX8bO3oP&rl=300&vabr=85&_nc_ht=video.fpoz4-1.fna&edm=AGo2L-IEAAAA&oh=00_AT9HiPvsU3MZjypRNKQGHdN3RBX1BCFdpRniJb-HNeAumw&oe=62C31850

[DRG]

https://en.defence-ua.com/industries/ukraines_military_get_german_howitzers_mlrs_in_com ing_weeks-3321.html


"Ukraine’s Military Get German Howitzers, MLRS in Coming Weeks'

German Ambassador to Ukraine Anka Feldhusen stated that Germany will send new howitzers to Ukraine in the coming weeks.

155 mm Panzerhaubitze 2000 self-propelled howitzer In addition to howitzers, the Armed Forces of Ukraine will receive HIMARS systems, which are supplied together with Britain and the United States.


..........so unit 815 start date will ( probably depending on delivery ) change to 9/122

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Looks like the first M270 MLRS arrived in in the Ukraine on the July 15th these should be the UK versions which are slightly more advanced than ours as they've been upgraded. I suggest the UK models are there as they were the first to get approval from the U.S. to send them there. Also, as I've posted a couple of weeks back, we found out taha the training has been going on a lot earlier then was reported.

I'm sure was to maintain a level of operational security and deception.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_july_2022_global_security_army_indust ry/first_m270_mlrs_rocket_launchers_donated_by_europe an_countries_arrived_in_ukraine.html

However, the USA this past week received the first upgraded M270A2 which sees many improvements.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_july_2022_global_security_army_indust ry/lockheed_martin_confirms_delivery_of_first_m270a2_ mlrs_rocket_launcher_to_us_army.html

Looks like GEPHARD won't arrive until possibly the end of this month but likely in August. Training has apparently been going well the delay came from the German Gov't.

Spain is still trying to get their former LEOPARD 2A4 tanks to the Ukraine. See the above for who's delaying that as well.

Unless we're all going to get a big surprise, I'm starting to think the German LEOPARD 1A5 tank deal might not happen for the Ukraine.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Pat, all we can do is wait and see

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The nice thing we do have going with all this equipment is...

1. The Ukraine isn't changing the names of what they're getting, which means...

2. We just have to bring them over from the donating countries OOB's unchanged SINCE they're sending their front-line equipment in most cases with the same ammo. This I know is a simplistic to all get really is involved.

Not much but, again could be worse.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Refer to Posts #217 & #221 for the following if needed.

I feel strongly I can confirm those M270 MRLS that arrived in the Ukraine on the 15th of this month are from the UK.

I already knew the UK started training crews on theirs before Norway and Germany and us "bringing up the rear".

Also, the following ref. tells me the same, for what it's not saying concerning the M270 MRLS. It does NOT mention "Training is still ongoing..." or "The M270 MRLS upon completion of training is expected to be delivered sometime..."

Why does this matter about who sent it?

Because the UK versions have fairly recently been updated (FCS etc. etc.) almost to the standard of our new M2 version which the USA just took delivery of the FIRST UNIT last week. This also allows for the firing of the newer longer-range ATACMS (300km Rng.) missiles.

But for immediate game value, concerning the UK version it has a much better protected crew cab and a new engine which will increase its speed.

You'll also note in the first ref. that the UK helped the Ukraine buy the additional (20) Belgium M109A4BE 155mm tracked self-propelled howitzers they didn't buy.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_july_2022_global_security_army_indust ry/uk_delivers_to_ukraine_20_m109_155mm_howitzers_and _36_l119_105mm_guns.html
https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/07/17/top-of-the-range-m270-missile-systems-have-arrived-in-ukraine/

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Artillery & The War in Ukraine - Developments, lessons, & logistics


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMEpxX7rS5I

[blazejos]

Here article about PZH2000 and Cesar service on frontline

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/how_ukrainian_artillerymen_use_western_pzh_2000_ca esar_self_propelled_howitzers_video-3604.html

MT-12 Rapira Guns for National Guard
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/the_national_guard_of_ukraine_got_armed_with_100mm _mt_12_rapira_guns_photo-3627.html

And mentioned earlier MT-LB with helicopters pods they were build in some number already during war in Donbas 2015

Here K-52 helicopter pods on ordinary pickup
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/downed_ka_52_are_useful_to_ukrainian_armed_forces_ in_unexpected_way-3355.html
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVkRRjiWcAACBoJ?format=jpg&name=small

Krab on Front-line together with support vehicles
https://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/10283-poland-armed-forces-modernization/page/8/#comment-226789

Here K-52 cannibalised rockets pods on ordinary pickup
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/downed_ka_52_are_useful_to_ukrainian_armed_forces_ in_unexpected_way-3355.html

other vehicle with S-8 rockets they may be build in bigger numbers
https://gagadget.com/pl/135834-ukrainskie-wojsko-pokazalo-domowej-roboty-mlrs-zamontowane-na-podwoziu-zwyklego-samochodu/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraina/comments/v4oryw/incredible_level_of_improvisation_some_ukrainian/
https://ukrainetoday.org/2022/06/06/ukrainian-fighters-showed-how-they-hit-the-occupiers-from-improvised-mlrs-on-pickup-trucks/

And here immortal UAZ-469 with Grad tubes "miniature Katyusha"
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWSkZrlWQAEewtj.jpg:large

And ordinary Ukrainian Technical with NSV 12.7mm on pickup
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/ukrainian_gunmen_mounted_a_127mm_utyos_machine_gun _on_a_pickup_to_bring_nightmare_to_russians-3626.html

Video about all types o this improvised MLRS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHb5hw8i3Iw

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

First GEPARDS are in country now. First source refers to 3 in country as of the end of last week. They have been refurbished and fully overhauled as needed. Uses both Airburst HE-FRAG and AP rounds.

As ref. 2 points out they will be very effective especially as most of what they will be shooting at was around when the GEPARD was first introduced. They can also handle easily any low flying modern craft as well.

Also found it interesting that the radar will effectively pick up targets at 9 miles allowing enough "heads up" for the crew as the craft approaches the 3 mile "kill zone".
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_july_2022_global_security_army_indust ry/ukrainian_soldiers_are_trained_by_german_army_on_g epard_anti-aircraft_tank.html
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-pilots-have-more-to-fear-as-ukraine-s-gepard-anti-aircraft-tanks-arrive/ar-AAZZjXS?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=cac96b9296174bcd9f639ec05d9981d4

VACA over back to the "grind" :(

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Karagin]

I just saw a report that France is no longer sending any more CEASER SPA systems to Ukraine other than what they sent. Not sure of the validity of the report, since said report had no link, so has anyone else heard anything?

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

With the following (NOT THAT I NEEDED IT.) further verifies that the first M270 MRLS systems were from the UK as per Posts #217 #221 & #223.

With that established, Germany has just delivered 3 additional PzH 2000 155mm and 3 MARS II (German version of the M270 MRLS.) systems from ref. 1 ...

"The MARS II of the German army is equipped with a new European Fire Control System (EFC) enabling the firing of guided rockets called GMLRS. It can also fire M31 GMLRS, M31A1, M32, AT2 and 110 mm rockets, but not of M26, M26A1, and M30, so as to ensure full compliance with the Convention on Cluster Munitions. "

"...GMLRS is now able to conduct high-precision engagement of point and individual targets and is used as an artillery sniper weapon. The MARS II rocket has a minimum engagement range of 15 km and can hit a target up to 70 km. It also integrates a 90 kg unitary warhead, providing precision strikes for point targets."

Also concerning GEPARD the correct number received was 5 units vice 3. So, the Ukraine is operating 1 battery of them.

"Citing information from the German Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht, Germany has already delivered five Gepard 35mm mobile self-propelled anti-aircraft armored vehicles..."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_july_2022_global_security_army_indust ry/germany_confirms_delivery_to_ukraine_of_3_mars_ii_ m270_rocket_launcher_systems.html

Concerning CAESAR I start with the following... "The reports of my demise are premature." because France is in the process of sending six more.

Dated from the 20th...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_july_2022_global_security_army_indust ry/six_more_french_caesar_self-propelled_howitzers_on_their_way_to_ukraine.html

Frances's issue is that they are bound by law to maintain 77 units but 18 (Including the 6 from above.) have been "gifted" by France to the Ukraine.

They simply need to make more.

"...among the 77 CAESAR self-propelled howitzers that it must possess, in accordance with the format defined in the report annexed to the Military Programming Law (LPM) 2019 -25, the French Army currently has only 58 left as a result of its gifts to Ukraine."

How fast not very and this is a GOOD EXCERCISE to understand how long it takes to build major combat equipment as taken from the following ref below again.

"It now remains to be seen how Nexter and its subcontractors will organize themselves to accelerate their production rate, especially since the CAESAr has also attracted foreign customers, namely Belgium (28 CAESAR NGs) (Mine: That's the 8x8 version in a different configuration as well that Switzerland is currently looking at). Currently, it takes 18 months to produce a unit."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_july_2022_global_security_army_indust ry/french_defense_ministry_orders_caesar_self-propelled_howitzers_to_replace_those_delivered_to_ ukraine.html

They could "technically" send maybe another battery as long as they replace them. And as the immediate above ref indicates, they have some options on how to get there.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Germany is officially announcing that 8 GEPARDS have thus far been delivered the Ukraine.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_august_2022_global_security_army_indu stry/germany_confirms_delivery_to_ukraine_of_8_gepard_a nti-aircraft_gun_systems_and_6_hep_70_cbrn_trucks.html

I am still somewhat surprised by how effective this unit is.

The following taken from the article as "dissected"...

"fully autonomous air defense system thanks to its S-band search radar mounted at the rear of the turret and a Ku-band Doppler tracking radar fitted at the front"

"able to detect and track aerial targets at a maximum range of 15 km."

Effective Gun range...
"about 3,500 m and more than 4,500 m with (Frangible Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot) ammunition. "

They were sent the FAPDS along with the other as already posted, I believe to be an HE-FRAG munition.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[MarkSheppard]

THE FUTURE IS NOW, OLD MAN.

LINK (https://breakingdefense.com/2022/08/bullet-made-out-of-light-army-to-send-first-stryker-mounted-combat-laser-to-soldiers-in-next-45-days/)

‘Bullet made out of light’: Army to field first Stryker-mounted combat laser in next 45 days

In addition to the directed energy system for the Stryker, the Army is looking at a small laser for a smaller vehicle.

By ANDREW EVERSDEN
on August 10, 2022 at 4:26 PM

U.S. Army Soldiers with Alpha Battery, 5th Battalion, 4th Air Defense Artillery, 10th Army Air & Missile Defense Command, conduct drivers Training on the M-SHORAD stryker, May 25, 2021, at the Oberdachstetten Range Complex, Germany. (U.S. Army photo by Georgios Moumoulidis)

SMD 2022 — The US Army’s rapid capabilities office plans to deliver its first combat laser to Stryker units in next few weeks and is moving ahead with a project to mount a laser weapon on another vehicle, according to the office’s director.

Speaking at the Space and Missile Defense Symposium in Huntsville, Ala., Lt. Gen. Neil Thurgood, head of the Rapid Capabilities and Critical Technologies Office, said today the first battery of Directed Energy-Maneuver Short-Range Air Defense (DE M-SHORAD) will go to an air defense battery at Fort Sill, Okla. in the next 45 days.

The DE M-SHORAD program, one of the Army’s top 35 modernization priorities, mounts a 50-kilowatt laser onto a Stryker vehicle. It’s designed to defend soldiers against drones from size group one (up to 20 pounds) through three (up to 1,320 pounds), in addition to rockets, mortars and artillery. Thurgood said during a presentation that the Army still has “a lot to learn” about directed energy, but said the tactics, techniques and procedures (TTPs) will largely remain the same.

“The TPPs for firing a laser are almost like the TPPs for firing a bullet,” Thurgood said. “It’s just a bullet made out of light — that’s the only differences. The kill chain is the same.”

Thurgood said the DE M-SHORAD system has already participated in two live fire events. At the first live fire, the platform was able to “track” mortar rounds, but didn’t take them out. After six additional months of work, the DE M-SHORAD program was able to defeat the mortars.

To better protect smaller infantry units, Thurgood said that RCCTO recently kicked off a project to put a 20-kilowatt laser on an infantry squad vehicle, a small troop transport that can carry nine soldiers. The new project, called the Army Multi-Purpose High Energy Laser (AMP-HEL), will be delivered in FY2023.

The capabilities of the 20-kilowatt laser for AMP-HEL are more limited than its Stryker-mounted counterpart, and can only defend against group one and two unmanned systems. Soldiers would still be vulnerable to group three drones and rockets, artillery and mortars.

The Army is investing hundreds of millions of dollars in counter-unmanned aerial systems as the proliferation of low-cost drones threatens soldiers and installations both abroad and domestically. In conflicts abroad in just the last few years, drones have been proven their effectiveness in delivering munitions on targets, artillery spotting and other reconnaissance missions. In fiscal 2022 appropriations, Congress gave the Army $434 million for counter-UAS efforts, up from its budget request of $60 million.

I'm still not quite sure how to implement actual laser weapons in MBT.

1.) Smoke and dust can affect lasers; unlike regular weapons.

2.) Damage capability / targets they can defeat are still variable --

A 50 KW laser can shoot down stuff weighing up to 1,320 pounds, from rockets, mortars, artillery shells, small aircraft and drones; and it could probably damage an incoming fighter jet (blind it's sensors, or burn a hole in a wing) forcing an abort.

While a 20 KW laser can only down small drones and can't defend from artillery/rockets/mortars.

[MarkSheppard]

Germany may be supplying Ukraine with 255 rounds of the the new Leonardo/Diehl Vulcano 155mm guided shells (most likely the GLS/SAL version) which is a 5 inch (127mm) subcaliber round that can reach out to 70-80 km with a 1m CEP.

[DRG]

Germany may be supplying Ukraine with 255 rounds of the the new Leonardo/Diehl Vulcano 155mm guided shells (most likely the GLS/SAL version) which is a 5 inch (127mm) subcaliber round that can reach out to 70-80 km with a 1m CEP.


Just for giggles.......

Anyone who shoots a rifle beyond plinking will get this

1 MOA at 1000 yards is 8"

1/2 MOA at 1000 yards is 4"

1/2 MOA is very good shooting

80 Km = 87,489 yards

87.489 X 8 = 699.912 ( lets call it 700 inches to keep it simple )

700 inches is 17.78m

So at 80km 1 MOA is 17.8m ( close enough )

A 1m CEP (Circular Error Probable)at 80km is like putting 5 shots through the same hole at 100m with no measured deviation in the size of the hole in relation to the diameter of the projectile

......only it's being done with a 155mm cannon

[blazejos]

First video of Gepard on Eastern Front in Ukraine military

https://en.defence-ua.com/news/first_footage_of_flakpanzer_gepard_in_ukraine-4007.html

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well, I was glad to see the S-300 didn't get into the Syrian OOB as there was some speculation that they bought them from Russia.

However, I am investigating based on the ref below that Syria has been operating the S-200 for some time now which I did not see in the Syrian OOB.

Of the 3 batteries of S-300's Russia positioned in Syria one has been removed and is strongly believed to just very recently to be operating somewhere near the front lines of Ukraine probably in or near Crimea.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-pulls-its-syrian-s-300-sam-battery-ships-it-to-black-sea/ar-AA11b2yc?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=2cf1f71e6aca6b1454ef04d4c48b9c02

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[blazejos]

Russia finished test and starts production of 2S43 Malva

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4-Z0o6XMAI3NAl.jpg:large

https://www.armedconflicts.com/attachments/3583/2355977-2.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EdYvVBSXsAA6xh7.png

and here article about this vehicle https://en.defence-ua.com/industries/russians_molded_their_analogue_of_caesar_self_prop elled_artillery_production_start_date_unknown_yet-4018.html

[wulfir]

OBAT 066 Sweden

Unit 386 RBS-103 Patriot has IOCed with the Swedish military as of 17 December 2021.

Also:

Unit 189 RBS-56 TI ATGM
Unit 203 RBS-56B ATGM

It appears that the BILL system was removed from service in 2013 by the Swedish military as a cost cutting measure and the excess units sold to SAAB.

It seems that the Swedish armed forces have changed their mind on that. The RBS-56 BILL systems are being bought back from SAAB, albeit with new sighting systems and other modifications.

This is intended to be an interim solution until the MMP ATGM becomes available from 2025 onwards.

As of fairly late Sweden has ditched the "Farawayistan Doctrine" where smaller professional forces were meant to deploy to places like Kosovo or Affe (Afghanistan) and battle insurgents armed with AKs/RPGs/IEDs and has begun to reorient focus back to the defence of Sweden itself against a Russian threat.

In doing this some equipment previously in storage has been dusted off and put into units - this is called doing a "Bydén" after the current commander Michael Bydén.

This included truck mounted RBS-15 anti-ship missile systems, RBS-90 SAM systems and it seems the RBS-56 ATGM.

The 40 or so stored chassis for the aborted CV90 based AMOS SP-mortar systems were used for a less capable sp-mortar system pushed through quickly to give battalions something better than towed 120mm weapons.

A few remaining demonstration RBS 23 Bamse mid range SAMs were also brought out from storage and put into units and deployed to Gotland. This system was meant to cover the range beyond RBS 70/90 and the HAWK systems but was discontinued, except for the handful (about a platoon or company's worth) now on Gotland. The unit type does not exist in winSPMBT but there are only a handful and no news of any new production.

The Patriots were bought in competition with a French system and AFIKN Sweden's aims to buy another SAM-system with ground launched IRIS-T. No idea when though...

[blazejos]

Here is Ukrainian source about Swedish deliveries
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/ukrainian_armed_forces_received_swedish_pvpj_1110_ does_it_have_the_power_to_crush_either_a_bmp_3_or_ a_tank-4038.html

Archer and RBS-70 are mentioned there]
https://en.defence-ua.com/industries/ukraine_to_get_more_swedish_weaponry_would_it_be_a rcher_artillery_systems_rbs_70_manpads_and_more-4048.html

[wulfir]

...received_swedish_pvpj_1110...

The pvpj 1110 nicknamed "Huggpipan" (roughly "Whack Pipe" or maybe "Slap barrel") was a common Bn level AT asset during the cold war. Some ended up in the Baltics when the infantry brigades were dismantled.

Ukraine now fields a major selection of the AT weapons in use or previously used by the Swedish army - though many were supplied by not by Sweden but by other nations...

[blazejos]

Meaby not newest info but Slovakia since August supply Ukraine with new Zuzana 2 SP-guns

That is third incarnation of this famous Dana gun which in 1977 was state of the art first of it class wheeled gun with autoloader.
So evaluation look like that:

M1977 Dana build in Czechoslovakia -> Zuzanna build in Slovakia -> Zuzanna 2 build i Slovakia for their army and now for Ukraine.

Zuznna 2 has a different armoured cabin for driver than previous version what may judge new icon of course based on previous famous DANA.

https://en.defence-ua.com/news/slovakia_delivered_the_first_of_the_zuzana_2_class ified_self_propelled_guns_to_ukraine-3874.html

And here more actually info
https://en.defence-ua.com/news/ukraine_to_receive_more_zuzana_2_howitzers_from_sl ovakia_and_allies-4409.html

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/germany-denmark-and-norway-will-fund-the-supply-of-state-of-art-zuzana-2-self-propelled-guns-for-ukraine/

https://en.defence-ua.com/media/contentimages/ba86339be578c97f.jfif

https://en.defence-ua.com/media/contentimages/90862f7f7903516d.jpg


Just look on whole family of this guns here is correct evolution:

152 mm SpGH DANA (also from Czech delivered to Ukraine)
152 mm ShKH Ondava (several prototypes not in production because fall of Czechoslovakia)
152 mm ShKH MODAN vz.77/99 (Modernised Czech variant)
152 mm ShKH DANA-M1 CZ (Modernised Czech variant)
152 mm ShKH DANA M2 (Czech and Polish modernisation also delivered to Ukraine)
155 mm ShKH A40 Himalaya (Slovak on T-72 tracked chassis prototype)
155 mm ShKH M2000 Zuzana (Slovak in Cypriot army variant M2000G with MG3 HMG also Ukraine)
155 mm ShKH Zuzana 2 (Slovak and now also Ukraine)
155 mm ShKH DITA (prototype)
155 mm ShKH MORANA (prototype)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/152_mm_SpGH_DANA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/155_mm_SpGH_Zuzana

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I'm having to post the whole ref. which is a current update about the war in Ukraine.

Scroll Down below the rail tanker car video, go to the next video. This video confirms to me the Ukrainians did get equipped with the latest HE/AP FRAG round I brought up when discussing entry of the GEPARD. In fact, the video shows that's the ONLY round being fired.

Count the rounds and count the explosions down range. Also note the "tight pattern" also down range. Seen reports they've brought down a little bit of everything that's flying. As it's designed to do.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-situation-report-another-week-another-fired-russian-general/ar-AA13wCIf?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=8ada5d6fbd464832ae7aa030e21acc03

Got things to do but the following will show that those T-55S tanks arrived by rail on the 29th of this month. And yes, they have been updated as I posted in the MBT Thread a while back. Also, UK has sent 105mm rounds as well as Slovenia for the 105mm L7 MG.
https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ukraine?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed% 7Ctwterm%5E1585943391359172609%7Ctwgr%5E91d07d9a2f 4efb8a66ed0e73a5552b4e2d30f878%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedrive.com%2Fthe-war-zone%2Fukraine-situation-report-another-week-another-fired-russian-general%3Futm_medium%3Dsyndicationutm_source%3Dmsn articles&src=hashtag_click

Hang on!!
https://mezha.media/en/2022/09/20/the-m-55s-tank-a-deep-modernization-of-the-soviet-t-55-for-the-armed-forces/
https://armyrecognition.com/analysis_focus_army_defence_military_industry_army/vietnam_no_longer_considers_israeli-upgraded_t-54/55_tanks.html#:~:text=In%20the%20upgraded%20T-55S1%20version%2C%20the%20original%20100mm,advance d%20accessories%20have%20largely%20imptoved%20the% 20original%20tank.

This is the best ref. (BELOW) as it's more technical which made it HARDER to find... That being said yes this is still a T-55 Steel Armor HOWEVER the difference is in what's over it from ref. Para 2
"The armour protection of the tank was improved considerably by attaching Rafael ERA blocks to the hull and the turret. This armour is believed to be the latest Israeli Super Blazer system which gives a high level of protection against High Explosive Anti-Tank (HEAT) attack but cannot be activated by small arms fire."

Also, the FCS allows the Commander independent operations that gives it by definition a "Hunter Killer" mode of operation that means TI/GSR 40 based on date of installation in 1999 with "tweaks" since. Again from ref. Para 3
"A digital ballistic computer was installed in order to improve the fire control system (FCS). The gunner has the Fotona SGS-55 two-axis stabilized day-and-night sight with an integral laser rangefinder. In addition to the integral optic sight the commander has the Fotona COMTOS-55 sight with an independent line-of-sight stabilization, which allows him to acquire targets and lay the gun independently if required. The driver has the Fotona CODRIS combined day/night observation periscope.
https://militaryleak.com/2022/09/21/slovenia-to-supply-28-m-55s-main-battle-tanks-to-ukraine/

Looks like we get to build a tank!?! :D So, for Sxxts and grins...
Chem. Smoke Defense Sys. 2/TI/GSR 40/FC 30/LRF 22/STABILIZER 4 (5?)/SURVIVABILITY 5.

Apparently, the Super Blazer ERA was fitted on the Challenger II TES when deployed. It is designed to work against BOTH KE and CE rounds. And non-explosive up to and including 23mm rounds and to 2-4m distance against 155mm artillery round shards.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Looks like we get to build a tank!?! :D So, for Sxxts and grins...
Chem. Smoke Defense Sys. 2/TI/GSR 40/FC 30/LRF 22/STABILIZER 4 (5?)/SURVIVABILITY 4 (5?) .
Regards,
Pat
:capt:

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16804&stc=1&d=1667202129

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
The ICON looks really good! It's your passion and little experience helps as well.

Also, I've looked into the T-55S a little more, and though the info is a little "scant" on this tank and after some further thought, I've edited my last post (240) to commit to SURVIBILITY 5.

More a "gut"/integrative feeling based I what've read than anything else.

To my "project" as discussed, ran into a couple of MINOR issues equipment wise which I'll try to PM you on hopefully later tonight.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[blazejos]

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16722&stc=1&d=1652174296

The issue of Bohdane comes back and is possible that after using of Cesar Ukrainian government give green light to production of this vehicle's also in context of use 155mm NATO calibre

https://en.defence-ua.com/news/ukraine_has_enough_155mm_shells_but_will_produce_m ore_if_bohdana_howitzer_enters_production-4763.html

https://defence-ua.com/news/kompanija_excalibur_army_postavila_minoboroni_ukra jini_novi_155_mm_bojepripasi_dlja_provedennja_povn ogo_tsiklu_viprobuvan_sau_bogdana-2473.html

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/experimental-2s22-bohdana-self-propelled-howitzer-is-destroying-the-invader-forces/

[blazejos]

KRAB and M982 Excalibur Rounds
https://en.defence-ua.com/events/the_krab_self_propelled_gun_fires_m982_excalibur_r ounds_for_the_first_time_on_camera_video-4859.html
https://defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/jak_dovgo_stvol_sau_krab_mozhe_biti_okupantiv_rezu ltat_bilsh_nizh_vdvichi_perevischiv_pasportni_poka zniki-9654.html
https://en.defence-ua.com/industries/the_krab_self_propelled_gun_barrel_can_last_twice_ longer_than_passport_specs_say-4860.html

[DRG]

Germany plans to supply Ukraine with 18 RCH 155 wheeled howitzers, according to the government's updated list of arms deliveries to Ukraine.

http://www.military-today.com/artillery/boxer_rch155.htm
https://euro-sd.com/2021/08/articles/exclusive/23833/rch-155/
https://mil.in.ua/en/news/germany-readies-18-rch-155-acs-for-ukraine/

[blazejos]

When we talk about tanks they will be accompanied by domestic SPG's finally production of serial series of Bohdana started and first vehicles looks like are ready now. If you look on photo cabin is a little bit different but is hard to say that they use original KraZ chasis or just totally different vehicle?

BTW that is Herculean effort in war torn country :)

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/327538919_1209536966606014_2723274139207369034_n.j pg?stp=cp1_dst-jpg_p403x403&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=PMoUdbZDQ3oAX-rdfDP&_nc_ht=scontent.xx&edm=AN6CN6oEAAAA&oh=00_AfAsw1DRjSMOTr0CrMQmdWSDG2wuH7D_sfMB_PEr_RME Kg&oe=63D7AB6A

and here full article
https://en.defence-ua.com/industries/the_armed_forces_of_ukraine_to_get_the_2s22_bohdan a_self_propelled_guns_on_a_new_chassis-5562.html
https://mil.in.ua/en/news/2s22-bohdana-acs-went-into-mass-production/

Second issue is the plan to use old Kub SAM launchers with new Sea Sparrow rockets

https://en.defence-ua.com/industries/poland_the_czech_republic_have_surplus_kub_ads_whi ch_can_be_used_as_launchers_for_american_sea_sparr ow_missiles_for_ukraine-5375.html
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/us_media_told_what_purpose_ukraine_need_sea_sparro w_missiles_for-5366.html

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I'm only posting this to avoid confusion between the two types of CAESAR SPA. I'm not sure of the status of the procurement of the CAESAR 8X8 in regard to how many if any they physically have.

But Denmark has decided to donate all 19 units to the Ukraine.

They are looking to possibly replace them with 19 Israeli ATMOS units due NEXTAR's current production issues to replace French donated units and to meet other existing orders from other countries.

Advantages in the "quick" better armor protection as can be seen in the pics from the refs., the range of the VLAP round is increased to 55km (I believe the 6x6 is slightly less.), carries more rounds @ 36 and is capable of direct fire on targets out to 2000m (I honestly not sure if the 6x6 can do this or not.)

Demark is the only user at this time and again we don't how they have and when they'll release them if they do have them.

https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_january_2023_global_security_army_ind ustry/denmark_to_replace_caesar_155mm_howitzers_donated_ to_ukraine_by_israeli_atmos.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/armoured_vehicles_artillery_france_french_army_uk/8x8_self-propelled_howitzer_155mm_caesar_nexter_systems_dat a_fact_sheet.html

Gotta get ready for work, I'll be putting some miles on my boot soles today!!!! :D :cool: And loving it for real!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Reported last year


Poland ordered 20 HIMARS, including 18 combat and two training rocket launchers, in 2019 to be delivered by 2023.


Anyone know if they have arrived yet ?

[blazejos]

No they don't arrived and is no any information that they are in transfer. Poland ordered 500 Himars. First mentioned will be on Oshkosh American truck rest 480 will be build on place on Jelcz chassis.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fobey1pWYAAaqCY?format=jpg&name=medium

there will be also K239 Chunmoo build on the same Jelcz chasis

[DRG]

OK, I have had them in the OOB for a couple of months and right now for guesses I am giving them a 10/123 start....... I think that is being too generous but better info may be accessible in the next couple months

Thinking anything Poland wants and Ukraine needs it'll be Ukraine that gets it first.

But we'll see.....