STACKERS, newbie game, (started)

[Jorus]

Gandelf, you are being a bit disingenuous (imho) when you imply that the changeover to 36 hours was going on plan for the weekend. My request was for immediate action on this and I thought it was more or less in place when I thanked everybody for their support 2 days ago (6/16).
That was the time for you to say something about timing. You never mentioned any timetable, and you could have just as easily done it yesterday (6/17). You reset the timer today only because I complained. You forgot, and you won't admit that you forgot. Everything else you have been saying is just cya (cover your ***). That's why I'm mad.

Instead you got involved in impossible theoretical discussions. By the way, Dom3 already has the provisional turn possibility in the "save turn" command. If the system worked correctly, a saved turn would not be used as an "end turn", unless time was up and there was no "end turn" in place.

[Gandalf Parker]

You reset the timer today only because I complained. You forgot, and you won't admit that you forgot.
Actually the game was reset within the hour of its hosting which happened at 5am this morning my time. There arent too many people that can get me to dance that quick, that early :) I did see your message later when I logged in here.

As I had understood it, your request involved the weekend. So since everyone was in agreement, I planned to do it for the weekend. I guess I could have actually SAID something like "ok its agreed and we will do it on Friday". And I guess I could have changed it instantly altho that would have screwed up the timing. I could have done alot of things but I didnt.

Did you still want a sub?

[otic]

Sorry to hold up the turn guys

I'm trying to get my formations to work correctly in simulated games. It's really a challenge to get dom3 to do simple things like having a commander walk into range, then cast spells.

And what's up with short range spells? Has anyone ever seen a commander cast one of those? I tried scripting some in single player, but the commanders stand in the back and cast long range spells regardless of the script.

[Amadamus]

Come on Jorus - stick with it!

I missed the first 4 turns and still in the game. Win or loose, its been a hell of a lot of fun!

[13lackGu4rd]

Sorry to hold up the turn guys

I'm trying to get my formations to work correctly in simulated games. It's really a challenge to get dom3 to do simple things like having a commander walk into range, then cast spells.

And what's up with short range spells? Has anyone ever seen a commander cast one of those? I tried scripting some in single player, but the commanders stand in the back and cast long range spells regardless of the script.

if you mean short range spells like shockwave than check out Baalz's EA Caelum guide on how to bring it home. note, it uses Eagle Kings which are Caelum's best mages, are flying and cap only, so they can easily fly in than spam shockwave. however without flying commanders you shouldn't really rely on short ranged spells, it's just too much trouble and very unreliable to do what you seem to be trying...

[rdonj]

Sorry to hold up the turn guys

I'm trying to get my formations to work correctly in simulated games. It's really a challenge to get dom3 to do simple things like having a commander walk into range, then cast spells.

And what's up with short range spells? Has anyone ever seen a commander cast one of those? I tried scripting some in single player, but the commanders stand in the back and cast long range spells regardless of the script.

if you mean short range spells like shockwave than check out Baalz's EA Caelum guide on how to bring it home. note, it uses Eagle Kings which are Caelum's best mages, are flying and cap only, so they can easily fly in than spam shockwave. however without flying commanders you shouldn't really rely on short ranged spells, it's just too much trouble and very unreliable to do what you seem to be trying...

The exception to this being big, beefy commanders that you have nothing better to do with, like an ungeared oni general. But that is a really limited set of usability.

[Greyjoy]

I dunno, five turns of attack is plenty to get them into contact... but they might spend some turns wailing around if you overdid it.

I really need to figure out how many squares of distance are involved in various things.

[otic]

For those of you who are wondering about the big drop in my army strength, I FRAPS'd the battle. You can watch it on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQj3hfwZqGw

[Greyjoy]

ROFL. Nice.

[Nauquan]

Lol. Nice. Except you had the guns. Rather than making a brave, but ultimately futile charge, I hid in the bushes (as far as a giant can hide)

[Greyjoy]

R'lyeh's definitely not getting a Christmas card from me this year.

[Amadamus]

R'lyeh's definitely not getting a Christmas card from me this year.

Yeah what a tosser blackguard is... So much for the newb friendly game.

BG, someone obviously with more experience and knowledge than the rest of us, first hides out in the ocean then drops a big cheesy global on us knowing he cant be attacked...

Hope you feel all large and manly chalking up a win against the first timers... What a bore!

Sure its legit, but for goodness sake mate... you remind me of some dude who loves to kick down others sand castles.

Well, if he wants to win, lets give it to him, i cant frankly be arsed rebuilding again.

[Greyjoy]

I'm not 100% convinced we can't bash down his globals. Clams and ocean-gems will only go so far when you have to convert them over to power a death spell, and you only hold about 15% of the map's provinces.

We'll definitely need to work together on that though, as per the ongoing PMs. I also have a few other ideas, but most of you will just have to wait and see what those are.

[13lackGu4rd]

jee, that was nice Amadamus. this is still a newbie friendly game, I haven't changed that fact. I'm also still relatively newbie, that's not changed either. the only thing that's changed is that I'm playing around with globals, but than everyone can do that, and it takes absolutely no experience nor skill to do it, so I really don't see what all the fuss is about...

funny that you didn't complain when Ashdod was dominating everybody and became huge, nor are you complaining now that our friendly hypocrite Greyjoy has taken C'tis, a rather underwhelming MA nation, and is now the largest nation, even surpassing Ashdod! so much for being a "newbie" heh Greyjoy?

seriously, if you wish to throw around accusations at the very least take a look at the facts, and don't get blinded by them! it's all there in the charts, a quick glance is all you need...

[rdonj]

Heh. Take a look at blackguard's join date. I think he's only been playing MP games for like 3 months now? Trust me he is no secret vet. He does spend a lot of time in IRC though.

[Nauquan]

I think you can expect people to be miffed when you cast burden of time. I am amazed you still take the opportunity to whine about how powerful I am.

[Verjigorm]

Burden of Time only affects certain things, and forces you to change strategies. It is quite expensive, at 70 death gems which means that the likelihood that you can Dispel it successfully is good. However, if he has a large enough gem income he will just replace it.

The question then becomes, what do I need to do to counter BoT without actually getting rid of the enchantment?

Can I cast Gift of Health?

Can I switch to demons or undead or another long-lived summonable?

Can I make Elixirs of Life or Boots of Youth?

Can I make some Barrels of Air, use spies to locate his caster (probably his pretender) and then destroy him?

If he's using a Master Lich/Lich you have to preach dominion out of his capitol, which adds a lot of overhead to the mission and makes other solutions look better.

BoT doesn't win the game. Everyone ages. Everyone dies--even R'lyeh (eventually... Looking at the chart their crappiest units have 500 years before old age). Even units under the caster's control. Not all nations are affected by it equally It simply shifts you away from recruited units and into summoned ones for the most part with exceptions for some nations.

Solutions by nation...

Abysia has old units, lots of them. Fortunately, they're a blood nation, so they can use boots. Since most of their old mages (Anathemant dragons excepted) come from the capitol, all that is necessary is to keep one blood mage crafting Boots of Youth each turn and all old mages will be protected as soon as they appear. Of course, since Abysians have short life spans, it will be necessary to change over to primarily blood economy earlier if it was planned to milk their strong troops for a longer time.

Hopefully Agartha has been working their strong magic in Enchantment and will be able to start putting up troops and mages made of stone. Death mages have some protection against the ravages of age.

C'tis is a death/nature nation.

Jotes have long lifespans.

Monkeys can summon long-lived mage commanders and sacred units.

Shinuyama has ample supplies of demonic and necromantic units.

Ashdod is quite long-lived as a race. Might put a hurt on some of the Talmai Elders, but... they could probably use a little kick in the rear.

As for me, I only have two provinces remaining and will not survive much longer regardless of the Burden of Time.

[Nauquan]

It wasn't cast by his pretender. His pretender is currently raiding one of my provences.

BTW. If anyone would like to teleport a team in to take his pretender out, please let me know. I can provide location and list his current items.

[Amadamus]

jee, that was nice Amadamus. this is still a newbie friendly game, I haven't changed that fact. I'm also still relatively newbie, that's not changed either. the only thing that's changed is that I'm playing around with globals, but than everyone can do that, and it takes absolutely no experience nor skill to do it, so I really don't see what all the fuss is about...

funny that you didn't complain when Ashdod was dominating everybody and became huge, nor are you complaining now that our friendly hypocrite Greyjoy has taken C'tis, a rather underwhelming MA nation, and is now the largest nation, even surpassing Ashdod! so much for being a "newbie" heh Greyjoy?

seriously, if you wish to throw around accusations at the very least take a look at the facts, and don't get blinded by them! it's all there in the charts, a quick glance is all you need...

Come Blackguard, you may say your a newb now, but you certainly come across as a know it all. Can't have your cake and eat it too mate.

The point is, you have sat in your own personal lake amassed such a huge quantity of gems, clammed your *** off and now put up a global which effectly craps out the game. How many gems did you put in it eh?

You deserve to get smashed by all nations - but the map doesnt allow for it. So in essence, you have effectively won. The land nations are two busy fighting it out - no possibility of getting a coalition in the ocean and the minute its dispelled you can put it up again! So whats the point continuing?

By the way Verj, blood boots dont help - lost some key warlocks teh rest have ammased a huge amount of afflictions to be useless even waring boots.

My grumble is the whole development of the game, the subtle strategy, the wit, has effetively been rubbed out by one cheesey spell. As i said what a bore. If that counts for a winning move, then good for you - good for any one that uses it - but the spell should be called 'Waist of Time', becasue thats what it presently feels like.

[freykin]

I'm probably the least affected by this, since I love the lich type pretenders so my god is fairly safe from the effects. That and I can Twiceborn all my oracles to keep them from being a waste of gold. In fact, I probably benefit the most since all my national summons are lifeless, and that's where I'm focusing my efforts on. It is a pain of a spell, though. Just be glad I haven't been able to throw up Utterdark :P.

[Greyjoy]

I'd say that Blackguard and I (and, I'd argue, at least Amandamus and the pile of consonants playing the apes) are legitimately newbie-ish insofar as lacking a grasp of some/lots of proper competitive midgame strategy. Probably. I mean, he's not out of the water in earnest yet... though with that research graph, that could change any day now. Can't say anything about Jotunheim yet, but he sure knows how to run them early game. Verj is another matter entirely, but he got smashed between two fairly formidable nations, so, you know.

MA C'tis isn't as underwhelming as it looks, I'm finding. Don't knock magic diversity, especially not when it's nature/death. But most of my success, I'm comfortable admitting now, was early diplomacy - I persuaded both Ermor and Bandar Log to leave me with undisputed control of a fairly disproportionate number of provinces, some of which took me a LONG time to claim; I think I had 27 in my sphere of influence before I murdered Ermor. That's not skill at Dominions (and, in fact, my early expansion hit a number of snags; Ermor's scouts watched me smash my head against a couple indie provinces and suffer stupidly disproportionate casualties), that's general strategy-game experience, napkin-math, and a bit of fast talking.

The game's far from over yet, though. I'd say Ashdod's the least likely to die horribly before the endgame, but (and I'm torn between chagrin and pleasure here) there aren't too many matchups left that have foregone conclusions.

Edited to add: Great post, Verj.

Also, in the initial paragraph, I kinda tripped over my words. The people I listed are ones who seem fairly competent but probably don't need to be accused of experience. Jury's out on Nauquan, I haven't seen him in action yet and you don't have to be a master to be firstish as Ashdod.

[freykin]

No mention of me in there? I'm hurt, us cave dwellers are always trod underfoot!

My signup date might show an early time, but that doesn't mean I have a lot of experience. I still have difficulty with normal AIs, and this is my second ever Dominions 3 multiplayer game.

That said, I feel I'm doing alright in it. I haven't been horribly murdered yet and that's always a good sign.

[Greyjoy]

I have virtually no idea what you're doing, Frey. My scouts are otherwise occupied and your score chart doesn't really give anything away one way or the other.

That said, you're MA Agartha and you've survived into the midgame, so at least you can either play or negotiate. And midgame golems are when things get real.

[freykin]

True, true. Before this game I hadn't ever played MA Agartha, and while I've done several SP games as them since, I totally picked the wrong pretender for what I'm doing.

I think it's that no one really views me as a threat, yet I would at the same time be a pain to conquer.

[Amadamus]

Actually, i apologise to BG for calling him a know it all - nothing wrong with learning, so putting in the effort reaps rewards.

Thinking more about it, the beef is that the map stops us from teaching the fish a lesson. I would assume that putting up such a global so early would guanrantee a swift retribution from all players. As such, there is a regulation on uses of such powerful spells. I couldn't imagine where on a normal map surrounded by 3 or 4 powerful mid game nations, yourself, comparable, would chance throwing it up in fear of being dealt with harshly.

In this situation, there is little fear of retribution and indeed a capacity for the fish to keep this and other on the way nasty globals up indefinatley.

It just seems such a pity that the shear strategy afforded by Dom3 can be so easily neutered by a spell such as this. I realise that particular nations will be effected in different ways by this, but damn, what a horrendously powerful weapon to wield with no apparent effort to obtain...

[cwkjc]

I repeat that the biggest threat is Rlyeh, and it's not the first time i say it !

- Do we want to cooperate (hard exercise for newbs) and try to dispel and make game more difficult for Rlyeh ?

- have you seen the scores ?
Rlyeh research = 9382 the 2nd 4558...
Rlyeh gems = 129 + 22 + Clams... let say 160 gems at least

I think that we are newbs and we don't like :

- players with a good sense of communication as Blackguard (he plays right, and he succeeds to influence players and makes an efficient propaganda)

- to face an event that changes our SP way of play... (stopping our personnal goals, pausing wars, define in emergency a global goal and plan coordonated actions, grouping ressources with old foes etc...)

Maybe we think that MP is just playing SP against other non AI players ?

Once again, it's really fun to play this MP game, thanks again Gandalf ;)

[13lackGu4rd]

Come Blackguard, you may say your a newb now, but you certainly come across as a know it all. Can't have your cake and eat it too mate.

there's a very big difference between gaining knowledge via reading the forums, wiki, chatting on IRC, etc and actual game experience. it seems to you that I'm a "know it all" simply because I've been doing a lot of the above. however my in game experience is still very very small, which is what makes me a newbie still. I haven't been around for too long, only a couple of months, and considering this game is already 3+ years old and there was also Dom1 and Dom2 which were similar so also give pretty good in game experience, than I definitely qualify as a newbie...

The point is, you have sat in your own personal lake amassed such a huge quantity of gems, clammed your *** off and now put up a global which effectly craps out the game. How many gems did you put in it eh?

yes, I've been sitting in my own personal lake, but I also can't leave it very easily. look at Ashdod and C'tis, both of them have grown much much larger than myself, and will soon catch up in gem income as well(no idea why they haven't done so already...) and well, this is vanilla so why not use clams...? everyone can do it, you don't need a lake for it, so I really don't see the problem...

now, please, Burden of Time is not 1 of those game winning globals! these include: Arcane Nexus, Astral Corruption(for blood nations), Forge of the Ancients, maybe Utterdark(for the right nations) and that's pretty much it I think. Burden of Time is simply annoying, for some nations more than others. some nations like C'tis shouldn't even feel it, perhaps a few afflictions here and there but certainly nothing serious... others feel it a bit more, but even than, there are ways to defend against it, if you're not adapting to the situation and coming up with the counters than it's your fault and your fault alone...

You deserve to get smashed by all nations - but the map doesnt allow for it. So in essence, you have effectively won. The land nations are two busy fighting it out - no possibility of getting a coalition in the ocean and the minute its dispelled you can put it up again! So whats the point continuing?

first of all, why do I "deserve to get smashed"? Burden of Time is not 1 of those game winning globals that I've mentioned above... second of all, if you still want to get me smashed than you guys can still gang bang me. I won't be dumb enough to actually walk you through it step by step, but it can be done with some effort... third of all, it's part of my position UW, it's hard for me to move out and hard for you guys to move in. it's not all white like you're trying to make it seem, heck if C'tis keeps on growing he'll be too large for even me to contain, than you'll stop whining about me and watch C'tis take over the game...

By the way Verj, blood boots dont help - lost some key warlocks teh rest have ammased a huge amount of afflictions to be useless even waring boots.

blood boots keeps them from dying, afflictions can be taken care of by other means... seriously, if you don't even try to put an effort to adapt to the situation at hand than stop whining about all the strategic choices in dom3 going down the drain due to Burden of Time!

My grumble is the whole development of the game, the subtle strategy, the wit, has effetively been rubbed out by one cheesey spell. As i said what a bore. If that counts for a winning move, then good for you - good for any one that uses it - but the spell should be called 'Waist of Time', becasue thats what it presently feels like.

think I've just commented on this above. a major part of any strategy game is the ability to adapt! I'm still so far from winning the game that it's not even funny... it's simply your lack of understanding Burden of Time and your lack of wits to actually put an effort to adapt to the situation that creates this very black picture for you. try to think outside of your little box for a moment and suddenly you'll see a lot of brightness!

[Amadamus]

I admit there is a degree of whining in there BG, but having blood boots didn't stop them dying of old age, and several others where feebleminded.

Listen mate, i have spent close to a month on this game, I log on and see all the work i have done evaporate. My old mages dead... All the good randoms i need gone. All that it took was for you to put up a global. Your damn right it pissed me off. What a waste of time is my point. I will need to recruit another 30 turns worth of warlocks to get back to where i was.

You know i was listening to you until the end of your post - then unfortunatley you come across as a bit of an *** - no a huge *** actually. I can respond to your global its not hard to work out, but for the effort in your casting of it for the consequence to me specifically, it was a game breaker.

Little box sheesh, i'm getting the sneeky suspicion i called you out right the first time.

[otic]

In Blackguard's defense, I do have one reason to believe that he still qualifies for kiddy-pool games like ours. The reason is that he hasn't been a terribly effective communicator. Even in the first twenty turns of the game I felt confident that other players would come to collude against him because he had the outsider/enemy position in our group, part of which comes from being the lone water nation and part of which comes from a consistent defensive / arrogant / knowledgeable tone in his communications. I think that a very experienced dom3 player would have handled the diplomatic situation more carefully.

As a specific example, the raionalistic line-by-line response against Amadamus comes off as combative and unnecessary.

PS:
I've basically given up on this game. My offensives never got past Marignon (158) (some learnings there that I might share later on) and they cost much blood and treasure. I will keep handing in turns because I don't want to hold the game up, but I'm not spending any more time thinking or planning. My thanks to everyone who traded with me - the purpose of the trading was to outfit my army to win at least one battle against Ashdod, which they did, just barely, with three times as many commanders and twice as many troops as the opposition.

[Jorus]

Newbie - This is my third MP game. I have played one SP. I have never played MA or Jotenheim. I have played other MP games though, and do know that diplomacy is just as important as game experience.

Burden of Time: Many Dom3 games forbid the casting of these types of global spells for many turns, this game should have done the same.

Burden of Time II: I'm certainly with those that say the game is not over yet. The question is whether we work together, or follow our individual paths to infamy.

[Verjigorm]

Ok... More ideas on combating BoT:

1. I just learned that boots/elixirs won't stop your units from getting afflictions from BoT, so you can add one of the following if your units get diseased.

1) Shroud of the Battle Saint if you have an N4 or higher bless effect.
2) Ring of Regeneration
3) Lycantropos' Amulet: I'm not sure what effect the transformation has on afflictions/age, but as long as you're not planning to take the warlock into battle (e.g. blood hunters, researchers, ritual casters, forgers), you can use it. If the transformation has a significant effect on aging/afflictions this would be better than the ring.

You may get stacks and stacks of afflictions on the units provided what was said earlier that you cannot simply die of old age while wearing boots/elixir but that you can die from a disease affliction.

Gift of Health or the Chalice can fix the afflictions provided you can cast it.

I dislike the removal of particular strategies in general. People complain about them after the fact, never before. In the attempt to fix the problem, you will only become a better strategist. Be creative--even if it's an "obvious" ***** strategy. (Interesting that there is a pretender called the "_itch" queen, but I can't use that word in a forum post).

Another thing I do with diseased blood mages requires a bit of micromanagement:

Send them against an enemy PD or indie province, all the way in the back with 1 slave each and cast Blood Heal or Leech depending on your research level then retreat.

[Verjigorm]

Additionally, my last turn approaches quickly. We have dealt a nasty blow to the Jotes and are happy with the performance of our armies against them. Jotunheim has a lot of castles--most of them mine since Man has a prolific castle growth rate.

I have not given up on MA Man. They are one of my favorite themed nations since Dominions 2. I'm sure they can do more than I have done with them. I do think, however, that one tweak would make them more formidable:

Adding 1 book of Air magic to the Mother of Avalon will produce an array of units that can cast Thunderstrikes or possibly a 3rd random (AN) book with maybe 50% chance would be cool. Possibly just widening the array out a bit giving them 50(AN) x 2 and 100(AN).


Adding Death as a possible book choice for Crones random books.

[Nauquan]

I agree with the comment above about "the jury is still out" on if I'm a noob or not. I don't have any idea of how I rank. My early success was due mostly to being next to AI player. I assumed everyone would see R'leyh propaganda for what it was.

I am losing quite a few commanders, but I want to keep playing just to see what R'leyh does, so I can play better next time.

[13lackGu4rd]

well, what I do in this game will be much harder to do in order games, as the map would be very different and most other games won't be in vanilla, so clams would also be out the window. but yeah, I do have some plans for you, and I guess you will be able to learn something from them...

[Amadamus]

well, what I do in this game will be much harder to do in order games, as the map would be very different and most other games won't be in vanilla, so clams would also be out the window. but yeah, I do have some plans for you, and I guess you will be able to learn something from them...

Learn something? Gee your a piece of work! I'll tell you what ive learned bigshot

If i want to play a game that you are not in then i'll play a non newb game. You make it you point to let us in on the secret that you know how to play, so take on some real competition.

I'm in two games at present - enough for now. But he next one i join will be a regular players game... why? because i don't think its good that new players to this great game should be used as experiments for better players.

You on the other hand, a craven individual intent of bashing the newb to inflate your ego - well, what an unfortunate set of circumstances that new talent has to first wade through a tiresome set of sermons from a tiresome braggard such as yourself.

Do what you must to teach Abysia a lesson and help me be a better player - yawn.

I don't know what it is, but i can't shake the impression i get of you - a chronic masterbater with delusions of grandure...

[Amadamus]

Ok... More ideas on combating BoT:

1. I just learned that boots/elixirs won't stop your units from getting afflictions from BoT, so you can add one of the following if your units get diseased.

1) Shroud of the Battle Saint if you have an N4 or higher bless effect.
2) Ring of Regeneration
3) Lycantropos' Amulet: I'm not sure what effect the transformation has on afflictions/age, but as long as you're not planning to take the warlock into battle (e.g. blood hunters, researchers, ritual casters, forgers), you can use it. If the transformation has a significant effect on aging/afflictions this would be better than the ring.

You may get stacks and stacks of afflictions on the units provided what was said earlier that you cannot simply die of old age while wearing boots/elixir but that you can die from a disease affliction.

Gift of Health or the Chalice can fix the afflictions provided you can cast it.

I dislike the removal of particular strategies in general. People complain about them after the fact, never before. In the attempt to fix the problem, you will only become a better strategist. Be creative--even if it's an "obvious" ***** strategy. (Interesting that there is a pretender called the "_itch" queen, but I can't use that word in a forum post).

Another thing I do with diseased blood mages requires a bit of micromanagement:

Send them against an enemy PD or indie province, all the way in the back with 1 slave each and cast Blood Heal or Leech depending on your research level then retreat.

I appreciate there are counters to these things - However i am playing a nation with no nature at all, so there goes those options... The previous owner of Aby created an 'interesting' pretender!

I appreciate its par for the course and Abysia has a huge vulnerability to BoT - but, if you lost all your mages in one go with no means of recourse, i'm sure you would atleast perhaps even a little, be slightly miffed.

But it is what it is.

I'm told by BG he is about to single me out for some special tutoring so i'm interested in seeing what our resident all star champion has up his sleave...

[Amadamus]

Attention Nations of Stackers...

It is obiously that the potential rightful ruler of this world must be born of its lands and not from the depraved depths of its oceans - another world of fish and lesser forms.

The fish have already declared war upon us - the cowardly spell set over the skys by the lothesome aquatics demonstrates their intentions to devour this world and its people.

I understand that some of the great nations are embroiled in noble wars with their neighbours, i understand that animosities may run deep and rivalries perhaps bitter.

However, The threat posed by the fish people is to us all and therefore must be stopped by us all before we can resume our glorious wars against our noble and worthy neighbours.

I propose the heroes of the land declare a truce with their opponents and join a grand coalition to combat the vile submariners and rid the world of their rotton stench.

Ashdod, you have been constantly wronged by these aliens - You understand their menace - their constant cowardly raiding.

A combined war against the crustacions is limited by the map and made difficult, but the combined genius of the righful pretenders of this realm would undoubtedly formulate a final solution for this undeserving form of life which will never be satisfied until all the lands are poisoned by their malace, their cowerdice and malcontent.

Nations of the World Unite with Abysia and let us join in a glorius and eminently honorable alliance, to rid Stackers of the alien ursupers who lie uncontested in the oceans building formidable instruments of evil, and as already demonstrated will unleash them with no hesitation. Such contempt for us all must be destroyed!

What say you?

[Greyjoy]

...I was not aware mages-turned-werewolves retained their magic skills.

If so, that's kinda neat. Mostly academic, but neat.

[Squirrelloid]

Epic drama is epic. Ok, its not monkey PD epic, but that kind of epic doesn't come along very often.

Anyway, BG is most certainly not a vet. (Heck, I'm not even sure I qualify as a vet.) But he's been playing for ~3 months. Seriously, that's still new.

What BG does do that I don't think I've seen any of the other players in this game do is he chats with people who are vets or varying degrees of lesser experience on IRC, asks questions, and gets quality advice and information about the game from people who have been playing much longer than him.

There are also many strategy guides on this forum. They are available for anyone to read. I have reason to believe BG has read at least some of them. It doesn't have to be about the nation you're playing, reading a good strategy guide (example: many of Baalz's guides - I might recommend his EA Caelum, MA Oceania, and LA Atlantis guides as examples I recall enjoying) can give you a new perspective on many spells and where and when they work. An intelligent player can extrapolate out of the specific nation context and synthesize this knowledge into other contexts.

Anyway, Blackguard has made good use of the resources at his disposal to acquire knowledge beyond his experience. Disparaging him for that seems unwarranted.

[13lackGu4rd]

Learn something? Gee your a piece of work! I'll tell you what ive learned bigshot

yes, you learn something new everyday. there's nothing wrong with learning, heck it's part of human nature! I've learned quite a bit myself from this game, and it's not even over yet, unlike the picture you're trying to present, so I'll surely learn a lot more. if you don't learn anything from this game than it is because you choose not to learn anything from it, not because you couldn't.

If i want to play a game that you are not in then i'll play a non newb game. You make it you point to let us in on the secret that you know how to play, so take on some real competition.

no, the secret is not "how to play", the secret is the strategy I devised for this game, which you guys allowed me to execute almost perfectly... there's so much you guys could have done to stick some sticks into my wheels but you didn't, so I just used what the game(and players) gave me... also, stop with this "you're a vet" crap, read Squirrelloid's post, read rdonj's post, these are some of the people I chat with regularly on IRC and played a few games with, so they know me much better than any of you. and they say in their own words(with no reason to lie) that I'm only here for around 3 months and that I'm certainly not a vet, so don't take my word for it, take theirs...

I'm in two games at present - enough for now. But he next one i join will be a regular players game... why? because i don't think its good that new players to this great game should be used as experiments for better players.

you can do whatever you want, we all have the freedom to choose our course of action. however, the picture you see from this game is very flawed. people(not just myself) have been trying to show you the light, but you keep on refusing to see it. you've also opened another thread whining about my BoT, and you've got some very good answers over there as well, I intentionally restrained myself from posting in that thread btw, and will continue to do so...

You on the other hand, a craven individual intent of bashing the newb to inflate your ego - well, what an unfortunate set of circumstances that new talent has to first wade through a tiresome set of sermons from a tiresome braggard such as yourself.

wrong, if you had actually known me you'd have known that I'm very far from being a noob basher, in all games I play online, not just dominions. heck, in dominions I can't even be a noob basher even if I wanted to, as I still qualify as a noob, light intermediate at most. Squirrelloid still considers himself as intermediate and he's got so much more experience and skills than myself, just to give you the right proportions...

Do what you must to teach Abysia a lesson and help me be a better player - yawn.

no, but Baalz did write a very good guide for MA Abysia, it's a shame you didn't read it before playing this game as MA Abysia... Baalz's guides are very famous, and for good reason. personally I greatly enjoyed his MA Abysia guide despite never playing them in MP yet...

I don't know what it is, but i can't shake the impression i get of you - a chronic masterbater with delusions of grandure...

this impression of yours is very very flawed, but don't listen to me, listen to the other people in here who are trying to show you the light, as you obviously despise me so much for whatever reason...

and here is a classic that shows exactly what I've been talking about:
I appreciate there are counters to these things - However i am playing a nation with no nature at all, so there goes those options... The previous owner of Aby created an 'interesting' pretender!

no nature? so what? you do realize that nature mages are *the* most common indy mages around, right...? all those Tribal Shamans, Druids(the indy type not Marverni's), even Lizard Shamans(S1N1), not to mention more quality indies like the Lore Masters and Enchantresses(random picks from all paths, so perfect diversifying tool if you luck into finding them). so really, complaining that you don't have natural access to nature just shows how lackluster the effort you've put in this game was, and that you're nothing but a whiny brat who doesn't even try to deal with the situation at hand, you prefer to whine about it...

I appreciate its par for the course and Abysia has a huge vulnerability to BoT - but, if you lost all your mages in one go with no means of recourse, i'm sure you would atleast perhaps even a little, be slightly miffed.

a vulnerability that could have easily been solved, not to mention that doing so in advance would have benefited you in other ways besides just countering BoT...

But it is what it is.

I'm told by BG he is about to single me out for some special tutoring so i'm interested in seeing what our resident all star champion has up his sleave...

when did I say I'll single you out for anything? last time I checked my comment was about Ashdod, who seems like he's actually willing to learn something, so I simply said that what I have planned for him would probably open his eyes a bit to some other possibilities...

I'll ask you again, please stop this totally unjustified crusade of yours against me and start to look in the mirror. you're not the victim here but the villain, and many people are trying to help you. it's just that you refuse to acknowledge their help and let yourself be blinded by this unjustified rage of yours instead of acting with even a little common sense.

sorry but I just had to defend myself against your blunt attacks and foul attitude.

[freykin]

Both of you calm down. You're both getting way too personal over a GAME. We're here to have fun! While I admit I am a bit surprised at the amount of diplomacy that has gone on, which can tend to sour things between people when treaties are broken and such, I'm certainly not going to hold anything anyone does in this game against them. Heck, this game is designed around the concept that only one nation can be standing at the end, so we shouldn't be surprised that someone does whatever it takes to win, including seeking out of game help from veterans and guides and such. I know I have been reading up on my nation on the forums/wiki, and playing some SP games as them to see what I'm doing wrong/right.

As for a coalition, I'm sorry guys, but if I sign that R'leyh is just going to kill me right off, me being his weaker neighbor. I'm pretty happy in my forts weathering this Burden of Time business.

Now if you want some REAL competition from me, then you'll have to come play the competitive game I actually am good at, but it's quite a different genre. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com)

[13lackGu4rd]

oh, you play league of legends too? :P
started playing that like a month ago, being free and all ;) but unfortunately I have too much lag throughout most of the day so I only play at night or early morning, and on the European server... still not very good at it but I'm getting better.

[Amadamus]

My post on the other forum wasnt a whinge, it was posing the question on the inclusion of certain spells - no need to refrain from posting in it.

In case you forget, i didnt build my pretender - indeed Abby had staled the first 4 turns before i took them over. It took a huge amount of fiddle farting around to craft a strategy given the crimping i suffered at teh begining, and you think its as easy as that to just completley change course and implement a whole new strategy based around druids when the one i went with was just coming to fruition?

To cap it off - that said strat just fell over with BoT... seeing as you are quoting from the other thread you will see that Burnsaber suggested that BoT meant lights out for Abby. It was seriously devestating!

That is my point! Nature has its own recourse to aging problems but i went the blood route as thats that card i had to play - boots of youth did nothing to protect my mages.

I apologise for turning this into a moan fest and for thinking you were talking about me when you alluded to handing out the lessons.

The frustration i have is that it feels like the cat has jumped on my month long game of War in the East and the counters have scattered all over the floor...

Anyways, your right Freykin - storm in a tea cup.

[Nauquan]

I would, of course, be interested in joining anyone in fighting the squishy fishies.

[Greyjoy]

I'll be cheerleading from the distant sidelines, mostly. There's not a whole lot I can do directly; I'm a bit short on astral CASTERS (got a few I'm carefully nursing in an undisclosed location) and most of my other stuff doesn't work so good under the sea.

You got plenty of moral support, though. And me refraining from eviscerating Abysia when he's down. ;)

Speaking of which, you two (Nau and Ama) should be talking, if you're not already. See if you can come to an amicable agreement for when Shin stops twitching.

[otic]

See if you can come to an amicable agreement for when Shin stops twitching.

Twitching?

That makes me sound like a meth burnout or a half-eviscerated mouse under a cat's paw. Couldn't you come up with something a little more dignified?

[Greyjoy]

The mouse is exactly the image I was looking for, but how about "breathes his last"?

[Verjigorm]

Just tested:

Lycanthropos' Amulet removes Disease affliction and cures "old age" when it activates.

Any mage you use it on becomes ritual-only due to the "Gone Berserk" effect, but since the disease disappears when it activates it actually makes a more robust ritual caster mage. I was using these on Crones with MA Man. The non-disease afflictions remain after transformation, so you might eventually want a healer, but this would make old age less of a concern for nations like Abysia. 2N required to make means that if all you have is Wolf Tribe Shamans you might have to empower nature by 1, but very worth the time. Any mage with a disease gets an amulet.

[cwkjc]

Bandar Log need a sub (holidays => 05/07 - 20/07) if you know someone...

[Greyjoy]

cwkjc: with a little bit of luck, no you won't. :angel

[cwkjc]

He he he, you're right, this is the end...

[Nauquan]

I just got jumped by a gang of geriatric bookworms wielding canes.

[Greyjoy]

Heh, lovely blitz of squid globals.

[Nauquan]

Yes, nice job whomever(s). Impressive.

[13lackGu4rd]

I'm very saddened and disappointed by what has happened. I will explain everything below, than you guys decide what you wish to do about it, if anything at all.

so, you guys noticed that all of my globals were dispelled this turn. what you didn't see was that 4 of my Starspawns were responsible for the dispels(well 1 failed I think so that could have been someone else). now, it should be obvious that I wasn't the one to order my own Starspawns to dispel my own globals, it would be very dumb for me to do this. there were also many other messed up things. for one I had 3 mages summoning some of the elemental royalty(2 earth kings 1 water queen) yet neither of them cast the spells. an S9 caster that cast wish(for a seraph) didn't happen. I had 3-4 S5(natural, as in no boosters) Starspawns equipped with 6 pearls each, with orders to teleport and magic duel some of Ashdod's mages, which didn't happen either and caused Ashdod to successfully kill my pretender. moreover I set some armies to move in and intercept Ashdod's UW invasion, which also never actually took place. there was also a Gargoyle that I've summoned yet the mage never cast the spell, a crystal coin that wasn't forged(and the hammer on the mage disappearing) and probably other things that I don't remember right now.

all in all, it seems very clear that somebody sabotaged my turn. also, seeing that this was a very crucial turn, I am lead to believe that somebody has been spying on my turns(not with scouts but actually seeing my turns) for at least a few turns now(who knows how long), to know exactly when to strike with this blunt sabotage. for obvious reasons(lack of hard evidence) I can't point the finger at any of you. however I do know that Ashdod had the most to gain from this massive interference with my game play, Amadamus seems to hate my guts after my BoT and that there are a few people that never said a word in this thread(or at least for a very long time now). this silence, especially with all the drama, is suspicious to say the least.

now, as I said, I can't point my finger at somebody, all I know is who is suspicious and who had the most to gain, but it could very well be any of you. I've checked with Gandalf first to make sure it wasn't some weird bug on his server, but the fact that nobody else complained about any oddities makes a bug highly unlikely. the timing, the location(me, being the bad guy after all the drama, and perhaps the most dangerous nation) also favor the sabotage option. I've also asked Gandalf for a reroll(just to be fair, but I knew it wouldn't happen), and obviously he disagreed(and I don't blame him).

so, here is how I see it. despite dominions not being a sport per se, the sportsmanship and fair play has been brutally attacked in this specific game. as far as I'm concerned, there's no point for me to continue(seeing that the source of the sabotage is still unknown, so it can happen again, and again, and that my turns are seen by someone else besides myself at the very least) due to this fierce and brutal outside interference. so, I'm setting myself to AI, than Gandalf can monitor exactly what happens next turn to maybe give him more insight on this situation. as for the rest of you, if anybody of you is man enough to admit what you've done than please step forward and admit it. I know it is very unlikely any of you will step up, but you have crossed the thickest red line available! the clear and obvious winner from this situation is Ashdod, whether he was behind it or not. so, if you guys wish to continue that is entirely up to you, but now the entire game balance has been disrupted by outside means. if you still wish to continue playing than go ahead, it's your call. but if I was any of you, and faced with this situation(happening to somebody else, not just yourself) than I would personally vote to end the game due to the sportsmanship and fair play being grossly interfered with, and the game balance going down the drain by foul means.

I'm very sorry that this game has come down to this low point. as you guys can see from all the things going wrong with my turn, I was in a very good position, still is despite this quite massive setback, so it's not about bailing out or anything. it's just that foul play should never be rewarded, so this is the only sensible thing for me to do.the rest is up to you guys. and for the slim chance that somebody does step up and admit committing this foul play, than I hope it would be enough of a reason for a reroll. but I don't have high hopes for that...

[Amadamus]

Ah come on BG - someone stole your PW and then reset all your moves? Occam's razor mate. Most likely you have not pressed the end turn button and quit and saved instead.

I can't help but see the irony of the situation though and i must commend you for the sympathy you heeped on me when my world turned upside down - however, there is no reason why you should quit. Fight through the pain like i did - adapt your tactics to your new reality...

Do you want me to give you a few tips? :)

[13lackGu4rd]

I can't even tell if this was cynicism or not, in any case it was pathetic! no I didn't "save and quit" I'm fully capable of getting my turns in... moreover "save and quit" wouldn't account for casting things I didn't do(like the dispels).

now, let me ask you something. how can I "adapt my tactics" when I'm not in control of my turn? if this was simply a manner of in game actions than it wouldn't have come to that, but seeing that it's an outside interference the situation is clearly different! adapting tactics is very good as long as you're actually in control of your own actions, this is clearly not the case here! heck, throw an Arcane Corruption at me to bring horrors with every spell I cast, with that I can deal with, cast Arcane Nexus and Forge of the Ancients together and forge 50 dead cheap items every turn! I can deal with that as well! but when you take away my ability to actually play my turns, not that's different... nothing I can do about it!

[Amadamus]

I can't even tell if this was cynicism or not, in any case it was pathetic! no I didn't "save and quit" I'm fully capable of getting my turns in... moreover "save and quit" wouldn't account for casting things I didn't do(like the dispels).

now, let me ask you something. how can I "adapt my tactics" when I'm not in control of my turn? if this was simply a manner of in game actions than it wouldn't have come to that, but seeing that it's an outside interference the situation is clearly different! adapting tactics is very good as long as you're actually in control of your own actions, this is clearly not the case here! heck, throw an Arcane Corruption at me to bring horrors with every spell I cast, with that I can deal with, cast Arcane Nexus and Forge of the Ancients together and forge 50 dead cheap items every turn! I can deal with that as well! but when you take away my ability to actually play my turns, not that's different... nothing I can do about it!

Pathetic? thats not very nice... and by the way its Astral Corruption.

Look the premise of your gripe is that some dastardly villain has hacked your game. I suggested that it was possible that you committed an error, but instead you you would rather accuse other players of cheating, that is poor form.

Hmmm, i think i used that line as well 'nothing i can do about it' when all my warlocks died to BoT...

The fact of the matter is, it is more likely that you stuffed up your turn, but instead of considering this possibility you would rather point the finger.

[13lackGu4rd]

see, the thing is, I didn't stuff my turn! I know fully well what I did and didn't do, and if it was simply a matter of wrong scripting than I would have just moved on! but it wasn't! why on earth would I specifically cast dispel 4 times and target each of my globals in each time? heck, why would I even cast dispel in the first place? if that Mother Oak of Man bothered me so much I'd have dispelled it long ago... also why on earth would I lie about summoning the royalties, wishing, etc and why would I give up on a perfectly fine and probably still winning position if it wasn't for something actually extreme?

now, stuff your poor warlocks and BoT already, that's something in game which can be dealt with. I won't open up that drama again, but if you still don't know how you should have countered it after all the discussions you invoked on it and the answers you received, than the problem is 100% yours... so go ahead, put up Arcane Nexus and Forge of the Ancients together, and equip like 20 thugs/SCs each turn for dirt cheap and gaining most of your gems back from the nexus. at least it's something in game which means it can be handled in game, and if not than you won fair and square. this is not the situation here, and I'm repeating this for 1 last time!

learn to read, work on your reading comprehension, I don't know what, but please start to understand what you're reading! I really didn't use difficult language, and it seems like you're just trying to piss me off by repeating your nonsense even after I already replied to it, heck I replied on it even before you made your first post!

[Gandalf Parker]

Actually, it does appear in the logs that certain units took steps to specifically undo their earlier actions.
It does not appear to be just "lack of actions" as would be true for a botched turn.

[Amadamus]

see, the thing is, I didn't stuff my turn! I know fully well what I did and didn't do, and if it was simply a matter of wrong scripting than I would have just moved on! but it wasn't! why on earth would I specifically cast dispel 4 times and target each of my globals in each time? heck, why would I even cast dispel in the first place? if that Mother Oak of Man bothered me so much I'd have dispelled it long ago... also why on earth would I lie about summoning the royalties, wishing, etc and why would I give up on a perfectly fine and probably still winning position if it wasn't for something actually extreme?

now, stuff your poor warlocks and BoT already, that's something in game which can be dealt with. I won't open up that drama again, but if you still don't know how you should have countered it after all the discussions you invoked on it and the answers you received, than the problem is 100% yours... so go ahead, put up Arcane Nexus and Forge of the Ancients together, and equip like 20 thugs/SCs each turn for dirt cheap and gaining most of your gems back from the nexus. at least it's something in game which means it can be handled in game, and if not than you won fair and square. this is not the situation here, and I'm repeating this for 1 last time!

learn to read, work on your reading comprehension, I don't know what, but please start to understand what you're reading! I really didn't use difficult language, and it seems like you're just trying to piss me off by repeating your nonsense even after I already replied to it, heck I replied on it even before you made your first post!

But my Warlocks....

For someone who didn't want to open up that drama again, you sure didn't try very hard.

I understand that something has gone wrong with your turn.

I understand you are annoyed about it

I understand that instead of considering your own potential error in the matter you would rather rant and rave and blame outside interference.

I understand that your pretender had a password so there is no chance of someone else doing the job on you.

The only thing i don't understand is why would you dispel your own globals??

[Amadamus]

Actually, it does appear in the logs that certain units took steps to specifically undo their earlier actions.
It does not appear to be just "lack of actions" as would be true for a botched turn.

So does that mean that there possibly is an infiltrator?

[Gandalf Parker]

Actually, it does appear in the logs that certain units took steps to specifically undo their earlier actions.
It does not appear to be just "lack of actions" as would be true for a botched turn.

So does that mean that there possibly is an infiltrator?
Yes, it seems someone may have purposely taken action that might kill the game.

Im still considering on the AI request. Im not sure if seeking a sub to step in will allow the game to properly continue or not.

[Amadamus]

Well thats a bit crap... sort of screws the game somewhat.

Anyways to catch the culprit? Does the server record the IP of those who connect in the logs? If it is a player of another nation wouldn't be hard to match them up with their previous logins.

[Gandalf Parker]

I dont have IP logging on by default. At times I have over 100 Dom3 games running on the server. Just logging the webserver, ftp, ssh, telnet, mail, etc is enough of a load.

But when something like this comes up, it is possible for me to start logging IPs for a particular Dom3 game. I will be watching this one.

Its also possible to insure that only one player can see a nation, or turn in turns for a nation, even if the password is known. Its not something I would turn on for every player in every game but is available for problem situations.

But this is all just discussion of server options. It does appear that its too late to be of much help for THIS game.

[Amadamus]

The bugger now is that there is the nasty spectre of suspicion hanging over the game. Personally, i think this kills it - BG should get the win by default, not a very satisfying way to win i admit.

Shame...

[Gandalf Parker]

It is ALSO an option to roll back to that turn, allow BG to input a new turn, and re-host.
But that can screw up things really badly. Anyone who has already downloaded this turn has to delete it
On the other hand, if the alternative is just calling the game......

But I will leave that up to you people. I will abide by a general decision this one time.

[Amadamus]

It is ALSO an option to roll back to that turn, allow BG to input a new turn, and re-host.
But that can screw up things really badly. Anyone who has already downloaded this turn has to delete it
On the other hand, if the alternative is just calling the game......

But I will leave that up to you people. I will abide by a general decision this one time.

There is that option, but it is the actual act itself which sullies the vibe of the contest. Plus, even though it is unlikely, there is always the suspicion of it happening again this time more subtlely.

see what others think.

[Squirrelloid]

Seriously, the only logical choices are to rollback or call the game. Rlyeh's position is ruined by deliberate sabotage. No one should sub into that position. This is far worse than a game bug.

BG may even have the .2h file he submitted (assuming he hasn't saved after looking at the new turn), so it may be pretty easy to re-upload.

I will note that there's no way for the hacker to look at BG's submitted orders, so subtle sabotage would be hard. He can't just change things - he gets the .trn file and can input his own orders. He can't get the submitted .2h file unless he's actually hacked the server itself.

[Verjigorm]

I don't understand why someone would want to cheat at a strategy game like this. The purpose is to learn and develop strategy. If one's only goal is to win so that one can have some sort of "Wingasm" or for Internet notoriety on a low-population forum board then that person a giant douchebag and they fail at life.

Why? Because such a person is not smart enough to handle situations on their own, but they want people to think that they are. They don't seek to become better able to succeed, only to pretend to succeed, and such a person is likely to be the same in real life as they are in fake life.

In closing.

I vote to roll back the turn(s), even though my stake in the game has been reduced to near nothing.

Don't play douchey....

[Nauquan]

Bugger this.

I knock off his pretender, after chasing him around for 5 turns.
No squad of teleporters, magic dueling could have helped.

His interception army may of may not have hit my squad of thirteen mermen raiding his backyard - not a big deal since he hasn't moved towards me for the last three turns. This turn was no more critical than the last one.

Now he knows my plans, and to top it off he implies that I sabotaged him.

If anyone sabotaged him, I strongly condem the action. Doing a roll-back seems to be the only remedy. However, a roll-back also gives R'leyh an advantage since he has already seen what I intend to do, and the specific capabilities of the units that I have.

So Blackguard what do you suggest to make this equitable?

[Nauquan]

Furthermore, I find the tone of your messages insulting. I have forgone responding to your continual Ashdod bashing, and personal insults towards myself and other players. I have treated you politely and have not provoked, insulted, or mistreated you in any way. If we continue this game, I would appreciate it if you would treat all players and Gandolf with more courtesy.

[Nauquan]

Man I am still angry. Can you tell?

Consider the blunt nature of the sabotage. If I did have access to your turns, I would simply mine them for information, and maximize the actions of my units.

I am insulted that you think that I am so unsubtle as to commit such obvious sabotage.

:)

[13lackGu4rd]

Nauquan, I didn't point my finger specifically at you, all I said was that you had the most to gain from this sabotage act, which is true. with that said, I also mentioned Amadamus(for hating me after the BoT) and people who haven't said anything for a long time, as well as anybody else. I don't really know anybody who plays here, so I can't say who is or isn't capable of such an unsubtle action, as you put it, so I can't rule out anybody either...

as for solutions, as far as I'm concerned there is *no* solution, at least as long as we don't know who sabotaged(and well, probably spied) my turn(s) and how we can stop it from happening again. I doubt we can do that, so the game is pretty much over for me... what you guys do from here is entirely up to you...

[Nauquan]

When you say "I don't want to point any fingers" and then go on to mention some specific players, that is pointing fingers.

In the same vein if someone say's "No offense but ...." and then says something offensive, it is still offensive.

[13lackGu4rd]

no, it's call stating obvious facts, and you can't deny that you had the most to gain from the situation... don't blame me from being hurt by the truth, it's not my fault, nor is it yours. it is your fault when you see it as finger pointing instead of what it actually is, simply stating the obvious(facts). same usually goes for "no offense but..." it's a matter of how the other person takes what you're saying and your tone(as much as you can reflect tone via writing).

moreover, since you seem to want to take this more personally than it should, and trying to discredit me and being so shocked that I mentioned such a simple fact, only raises the suspicions against you. it's called: acting suspiciously. now, this is not to say I accuse you of anything, again I'm simply stating obvious facts.

now, take this any way you wish, I've said what I had to say and tried to explain it the best I can. how you(or others for that matter) wish to take my words is totally out of my control...

[Nauquan]

I can understand why you feel that the game is over for you, because another player can sabotage or merely peek at your future turns.

I fear that the game will be over for everyone. Since the capability of hacking a turn exists, anyone can be hacked. And since it is known that it can be done, then more people will figure out how to do it. Not just for this game, but for any of the Dominions MP games.

Very sad.

[Gandalf Parker]

I wont comment on THIS particular event.
But as an internet admin, and a netcop, I will point out that the weakest link in just about ANYTHING on the net is the strength of passwords.

[Greyjoy]

****ty situation, this.

I'd be willing to accept a rollback, though as you say, it doesn't really solve the central problem. (Only Blackguard can really theorize on his own personal password strength and whether that's liable to have been a problem.)

Edit: reread Gandalf's posts. Durr, it might actually solve the central problem, if he sets it so only Blackguard can play Blackguard's turns.

[Nauquan]

I will continue to play if there is a rollback. I reserve the right to whine more than Blackguard henceforth.

[Greyjoy]

(Been chatting with Blackguard over PMs, he suggested I drop this into the thread for a better view of my mentality on all this, so why not.)

I'm plenty of a diplomatic scumbag in the game, but I object to screwing with the actual engine. :(

Also, the rollback would have functionally zero impact on my turn; it's really quite secondary, but pleasant. Everything of note, other than blowing apart one of your enchantments to try and maintain economic superi... er, parity, basically consisted of me letting Bandar Log's main army wander wherever it felt like and overrunning everywhere else.

I'd rather go down fighting you or Ashdod legitimately than go down fighting Ashdod because you AIed out after a turn-security cluster****.

[Jorus]

I feel that the sabotage is very regrettable, but I have about the same level of sympathy for BG as he expressed when my turns staled.
For me personally, the game is now more interesting and balanced and I would prefer to play on, but can accept the rollback if that is the wish of the majority.
If Gandelf can insure that it doesn't happen again, why not? Depending on how you interpret the stats, Rlyeh is still the #1 or #2 nation out there.

[Gandalf Parker]

Well allowing the AI of Rlyeh to go thru will insure that it doesnt happen to Rlyeh again.
Whether it can happen again depends on the passwords of the players.

But I can leave the watch routine running, and the fact that its now recording who uploads what files can be a deterrent to future efforts.

[Greyjoy]

There are still a good few titanic clashes to go, yep.

[Nauquan]

Hmmm. Think of the bad turn as a handicap to the game leader?

I don't think just setting to AI is the answer since I will be able to take advantage of that.

How about this ... we all agree that nobody can enter the water (except maybe scouts for arms control verification). Turn the AI on for R'leyh and it would be a permanent hazard to nearby players.

[Amadamus]

no, it's call stating obvious facts, and you can't deny that you had the most to gain from the situation... don't blame me from being hurt by the truth, it's not my fault, nor is it yours. it is your fault when you see it as finger pointing instead of what it actually is, simply stating the obvious(facts). same usually goes for "no offense but..." it's a matter of how the other person takes what you're saying and your tone(as much as you can reflect tone via writing).

moreover, since you seem to want to take this more personally than it should, and trying to discredit me and being so shocked that I mentioned such a simple fact, only raises the suspicions against you. it's called: acting suspiciously. now, this is not to say I accuse you of anything, again I'm simply stating obvious facts.

now, take this any way you wish, I've said what I had to say and tried to explain it the best I can. how you(or others for that matter) wish to take my words is totally out of my control...

Thinking on this over night and seeing responses such as this in the morning, i'm left feeling rather annoyed about how this has been handled.

Seeing as you are quick to point out facts (which are actually not facts but mere speculation), let me run through some other 'facts'...

1. The probability of Gandalf' server being hacked are minimal
2. The probability of someone guessing your PW are minimal

Seeing as you are a master of 'facts' here are some other possibilities.

a)You changed your turn and the actions of your units to enable you to come on the forum and cause a ruckass.

b)You have someone living at your house with whom you share your computer with and they logged on and mucked up your turn as a prank.

Frankly BG, you did point the finger and did name names - no matter how much you spin it. The unwashed crettin like manner in which you have conducted your self is appalling.

If you don't want to play on fine - but i dont vote for a roll back. The probabilities that the issue is on your end is far greater than someone in the game interfering with your turn.

[Greyjoy]

Hmmm. Think of the bad turn as a handicap to the game leader?

I don't think just setting to AI is the answer since I will be able to take advantage of that.

How about this ... we all agree that nobody can enter the water (except maybe scouts for arms control verification). Turn the AI on for R'leyh and it would be a permanent hazard to nearby players.

Well, I certainly prefer it to setting it AI with you able to enter. ;)

An intriguing idea. I'm in favor of the agreement.

[Nauquan]

It would be better if R'leyh could be removed from the game, but I don't know if that is possible. Just so everyone knows I have about 4 of R'leyh's water provinces right now. Two of which are just raids and soon to be lost.

[rdonj]

no, it's call stating obvious facts, and you can't deny that you had the most to gain from the situation... don't blame me from being hurt by the truth, it's not my fault, nor is it yours. it is your fault when you see it as finger pointing instead of what it actually is, simply stating the obvious(facts). same usually goes for "no offense but..." it's a matter of how the other person takes what you're saying and your tone(as much as you can reflect tone via writing).

moreover, since you seem to want to take this more personally than it should, and trying to discredit me and being so shocked that I mentioned such a simple fact, only raises the suspicions against you. it's called: acting suspiciously. now, this is not to say I accuse you of anything, again I'm simply stating obvious facts.

now, take this any way you wish, I've said what I had to say and tried to explain it the best I can. how you(or others for that matter) wish to take my words is totally out of my control...

Thinking on this over night and seeing responses such as this in the morning, i'm left feeling rather annoyed about how this has been handled.

Seeing as you are quick to point out facts (which are actually not facts but mere speculation), let me run through some other 'facts'...

1. The probability of Gandalf' server being hacked are minimal
2. The probability of someone guessing your PW are minimal

Seeing as you are a master of 'facts' here are some other possibilities.

a)You changed your turn and the actions of your units to enable you to come on the forum and cause a ruckass.

b)You have someone living at your house with whom you share your computer with and they logged on and mucked up your turn as a prank.

Frankly BG, you did point the finger and did name names - no matter how much you spin it. The unwashed crettin like manner in which you have conducted your self is appalling.

If you don't want to play on fine - but i dont vote for a roll back. The probabilities that the issue is on your end is far greater than someone in the game interfering with your turn.

Before all this hullabaloo happened, I'd been talking with blackguard about the game a bit, and we had a discussion or two about his strategy. Having had those conversations, I think there is about a 0% chance that he sabotaged his own turn. While it makes for amusing speculation, it makes no sense and certainly does not fit with my knowledge of his intentions for the game. And probability 2 is pretty minimal, you'd have to actually know how to play the game to sabotage the turn in the way it was done, and know the password he was using.

Anyway, accusing each other isn't getting this game anywhere, so you guys may as well just stop. Seriously there is no point to arguing about this, whatever bad blood there is between you. It looks like either:

1) You guys roll back the turn, gandalf hosts the game with everyone's old turn and hopefully blackguard still has his old one and can submit that to gandalf, OR everyone redoes the turn. From now on gandalf puts all his cheat protections into place for this game, and you guys accept that there may be some bugginess that could kill the game later.

or 2) Blackguard goes AI, you guys decide whether going underwater is kosher or not, and gandalf still should probably place all cheat protections in place for this game since there's an extremely high probability one of the players is a cheater.

Alternatively, end the game right now, knowing that one sad, sorry excuse for a gamer just ruined the game for everyone, because if blackguard goes AI there's a very high probability the course of the game will be forever changed. Not to say he'd win, but he was strong enough that win or lose, he was going to really hurt anyone he warred with, making them much easier for neighbors to kill if nothing else.

[Lingchih]

I would say end the game. I'm not a part of it, so I have no say, but I have been following it here and on IRC. The best choice is to end the game now. There has been obvious cheating, and that is not a part of the Dom3 community.

[Amadamus]

I would say end the game. I'm not a part of it, so I have no say, but I have been following it here and on IRC. The best choice is to end the game now. There has been obvious cheating, and that is not a part of the Dom3 community.

I'd actually go with this -this is a sad state of affairs.

But it cannot be explained how someone else can access the game besides BG. The aligations of cheating are serious and with out any proof that we have a genius hacker in our midst, It is rubbish that all the players in this game are implicated and carry a stigma of cheating.

[Amadamus]

Before all this hullabaloo happened, I'd been talking with blackguard about the game a bit, and we had a discussion or two about his strategy. Having had those conversations, I think there is about a 0% chance that he sabotaged his own turn. While it makes for amusing speculation, it makes no sense and certainly does not fit with my knowledge of his intentions for the game. And probability 2 is pretty minimal, you'd have to actually know how to play the game to sabotage the turn in the way it was done, and know the password he was using.



Whilst this may be so, the other likelyhood that the server was hacked or someone guessed his pw are just as outrageous.

[Gregstrom]

It's easy enough to download another player's .trn file through direct connect. Assuming poor password security, a simple and easily automated dictionary attack will get you access to a turn file. Other attacks may be possible depending on the security of the .trn file's password system (and I have no idea how secure .trn files are - I'm not into hex editing).

The idea that hacking is less likely than anyone intentionally going back into a completed turn and
1: Countermanding a series of critical orders
2: Destroying some of their own items
3: Casting 4 (count them, 4) dispels at their own globals
is pretty ludicrous.

[Amadamus]

It's easy enough to download another player's .trn file through direct connect. Assuming poor password security, a simple and easily automated dictionary attack will get you access to a turn file. Other attacks may be possible depending on the security of the .trn file's password system (and I have no idea how secure .trn files are - I'm not into hex editing).

The idea that hacking is less likely than anyone intentionally going back into a completed turn and
1: Countermanding a series of critical orders
2: Destroying some of their own items
3: Casting 4 (count them, 4) dispels at their own globals
is pretty ludicrous.

Sounds like both of the scenarios you paint are equally ludicrous!

[cwkjc]

Or another solution is double personality ;)

Auto dispeling globals can't be a file or turn problem, all this is very strange but hacking the file of blackguard is so amazing that i can't imagine it, but as BG said facts are here.

So what is decided ? Game is stopped or not ?

My nation is not in a good position to prononce for stop or not.
And i'm leaving in holidays tuesday, but it's very sad the game was perfect before this amazing turn.

I would be very happy to begin in September a new game with the same players in the same conditions and hosted by our super Gandalf.

But it seems important to understand what happened clearly in this game.

[Gregstrom]

Hacking .trn and .2h files has been done before. Normally on a player's own file, but there's no reason not to extend the principle. And if you aren't hacking a file to do anything obviously advantageous to a player, then the inbuilt cheat detection might well miss it entirely.

[Gandalf Parker]

Dom3, or the topic of direct-connect vs pbem, dont make this a new subject. Pardon a netcop lecture but it still boils down to having a password and choosing one that is at least laughingly unguessable. I feel that I can safely say that if everyone puts a password on their pretenders that is even jokingly reasonable then this is becomes as unlikely as any other password secured service on the net.

Part of the problem is actually unique to this forum. Some of the people here are actually told NOT to password protect their pretenders for IRC blitz games, and sometimes for PbEM games. So even though I try to specifically SAY that pretenders should have passwords (see post #2 of this thread) there are still people who have no password, or it matches the nation, or the players login. In such cases, I have trouble feeling any shared responsibility for what happens.

So far it seems the smoothest (even if not best) course is to allow the AI of Rlyeh and allow everyone to decide for themselves if they wish to continue playing. So for now, consider that to be the action unless there is a definite group agreement otherwise.

[Nauquan]

ahhh. Things are clearer now.

OK moving forward.

Can we vote please?

1) Stop the game

2) Play on with R'leyh set to AI, look for a substitute

3) Play on with everyone out of the water, R'leyh set to AI.

Please let me know as the Ashdod war machine has a large investment in the water at this point.

I vote for #2 :)

[Nauquan]

I wonder if the AI will cast BOT :)

[Gandalf Parker]

AI is a one way trip. Once the game hosts with Rlyeh set AI, it cannot go back to being a human player.
So its either AI, or substitute. We cant go AI then sub later.

[Verjigorm]

Man is now set to AI. My forces are dwindling and my crone that held the Mother Oak is dead. I will not supply a vote on what to do with the game, but if rollback is impossible, I would say the game is over due to cheating.

I did manage to burn down two of Jotunheim's Temples though with just my remaining kamikaze forces. :P

[Gandalf Parker]

Again, let me remind everyone...
only I can set someone AI. You can tell the game to set you AI but it will not take unless I change the game settings to allow that nation to be AI.
Options are:
request AI
arrange a sub
stale (twice) at which time it becomes my choice

[Verjigorm]

icic.. The nation of Man is defeated and hasn't the military strength to be effective--The AI can accomplish any task that I could perform. Please set Man to AI.

[Gandalf Parker]

Some new players like to get a taste of MP play by having a chance to watch major battles, even if they are only doing the "honorable death" thing. But subs seem few on this forum so to keep things moving I will let the Man AI setting go thru.

[Greyjoy]

I vote for 3, naturally.

[cwkjc]

I vote for 1.

[freykin]

Wow, miss the thread for two days and a million things happen. What a terrible thing to have happen to a game, especially one that is labeled as a newbie game. As for my two cents on the matter, I'd say it's highly unlikely Ry'leh purposely sabotaged themselves, considering the amount of trading that went back and forth between me and them.

I vote for option 3, as while I'm not in the greatest position in this game, I still have a few strategies I'd like to try out. That is, if AI Ry'leh doesn't wipe the floor with me, I've already got some invasion forces pushing their way inwards on me.

[Verjigorm]

Some new players like to get a taste of MP play by having a chance to watch major battles, even if they are only doing the "honorable death" thing. But subs seem few on this forum so to keep things moving I will let the Man AI setting go thru.

If you are aware (or looked at) Man's turn you will find that I have already done as much as I really could in terms of seeking the "honorable death", and that the remainder is merely academic. Most of my units are diseased and my army is composed of my researchers and a few remaining longbowmen. My crone which held the Mother Oak enchantment died last turn, so I no longer have a gem income to distribute to allies, and there are no significant attackable adjacent provinces in which I can do damage.

I razed two of Jotunheim's temples and have done some economic damage, the remains of my army will not last more than 2 turns and will not likely do anything significant from this point forward which is why I requested the AI transfer.

[Greyjoy]

My scouts can confirm this. His entire remaining army basically crashed through the Jotun front line and trashed the neighborhood. It was pretty amazing for having a negligible screening force.

[lch]

I just came in because there were claims that access to the game might have been hacked and I glanced over the posts to look about this.

Two things: First, hacks on Dom3 game servers are not really feasible through dictionary or brute force attacks. That doesn't mean that it's impossible, just that I can't imagine one would bother with this. So if you have picked a password, and a good one, your own password should be pretty secure. Problems arise if the game is using a master password, and therefore I have always advised to not use master passwords in networked games. It is possible to gain access to the master password by every player in the game. I assume that Gandalf is using a master password here.

Second, if somebody inspects your turns through your password or through the master password, then there will be no complications if he does this before you hand in your turn orders. If he inspects the turn after you have uploaded your turn order, without you logging in again afterwards, then the turn orders that you gave could get overwritten with a blank. What is being downloaded from the network server are always only the reports from last turn and never your orders for the current turn. So the case that somebody mostly gave the same orders like you do with some bogus changed ones is very unlikely, unless that person had access to the files with your turn orders, too, and this is something that only the server administrator would have. It might be that somebody has been spying on you, but not that he only made small changes.

There can be very strange effects like this when turn files and turn orders don't really match well together, like it would be the case with a rehost of a previous turn, of course.

[freykin]

So, where do we stand? Are we continuing, or calling it?

[Greyjoy]

I'm continuing, if only for practice with lategame that I literally have not had yet. Bashing the AI's skull in with two or three tarts does NOT count. I want to see how I fare against an actual player - especially since looking at the other two games I'm in, there's no guarantee I'll be a significant power by MIDgame there.

Sure, the squids' implosion has blown game balance all to hell... but it's still practice.

[Gandalf Parker]

As far as I know the game is continuing with AIs

[Nauquan]

Ashdod salutes our fallen foe, the Shinuyama. They fought to the last man, each trying to kill one more Ashdod. We look forward to seeing those Corrosion Staves again in this game.

Edit: ... and I salute Otic, who played until the last turn, even when it was clear that he would not prevail. You had me sweating through a few great battles.

[Gandalf Parker]

Due to a summer brownout all games on the Dom3Minions.com server have been reset.
This has restarted the timer for this turn. I will not surprise anyone with a manual fix on what is showing (unless for some reason the group desires it)

Sorry about that. Blame global warming.

[Jorus]

Where do we stand on this, in particular ashdod? Agartha says he is staying out of the water, but I have not seen this confirmed by the other players.

I just want to be sure we all are on the same page.

Too bad BG quit, he still has a very powerful position.


ahhh. Things are clearer now.

OK moving forward.

Can we vote please?

1) Stop the game

2) Play on with R'leyh set to AI, look for a substitute

3) Play on with everyone out of the water, R'leyh set to AI.

Please let me know as the Ashdod war machine has a large investment in the water at this point.

I vote for #2 :)

[Nauquan]

I am playing as normal - going into the water. As far as I know R'leyh is attacking Argatha too, and they did not want to stay out. I figured there was enough other players going AI and stale-ing turns to make it even-ish.

R'leyh should not have quit, the only thing that he lost was a whole bunch of gems that he could have made back. I think he would have won if he stuck it out due to his gem income and research.

R'leyh is giving me some trouble due to the items and scripts that BG left behind.

As it stands C'tis is taking the lead, with stong globals, gem income, research, and quiet borders.

[Greyjoy]

I wasn't REALLY expecting you to stay landbound and felt like a bit of an *** for even casting the vote. ^_^

I'll be taking a pretty reasonable hit in the next few turns. My main southern army has Bandar Log's cornered in a fort, so something's gonna give.

It's gonna be pretty epic.

[freykin]

Ah, so we ARE allowed to go in the water? Alright then. I haven't been able to due to the huge wave of summons the AI has been throwing at me, but good to know once I clear them off my land.

[Nauquan]

As far as I could tell the vote was

a) 1
b) 1
c) 1

so inconclusive.

[Nauquan]

Something wrong with the game maybe. It counted down to the deadline, and now it is showing 36 hrs again, with no change in turn.

[freykin]

Ah, I counted 2 for C, one being me and one being someone else.

It hasn't affected me either way, these 100+ troll armies are getting tiresome.

[Gandalf Parker]

Im afraid that he server had to reboot, again. The timer was started over.

I could fix that but in general its a pain since it has to be fixed back after the turn hosts.

[Nauquan]

OK. Thanks. I guess I'll have to deal with real life for a change.

[Nauquan]

Well he doesn't count cause he was almost out of the game anyway :) Also we had another vote for a) from someone not even playing :)

[Jorus]

Water Province vote: I abstain, although I feel that Ashdod will be the main beneficiary of access to water.

Absence: I will make a turn today (I hope) but will not be able to make my next turn until next Wednesday evening (EST). I will not have access to a Dom3 computer. I would prefer to hold, but if Gandelf (God of Games) decides otherwise, please don't put me on AI.

Ryleh: I also think BG had a winning hand, but not a slam dunk as before. I guess it would be too much work.

[Gandalf Parker]

OK. Thanks. I guess I'll have to deal with real life for a change.
Ive learned not to sweat the restarts. I used to try and fix the timer which was a major pita. But most of the games host on quickhost anyway. And if they dont then it needs examined for other reasons.

One of my present code-projects is a way to keep a better eye on which games continually time-out.

[Jorus]

hold?

[Gandalf Parker]

I havent seen any comments on it

[Nauquan]

If players agree, I would like to extend turns to 48 hrs from now on. Thanks.

[Amadamus]

Agree to 48hr.

[Nauquan]

Hellooo! Is this thing on? two or three days is good. This day and a half thing is difficult.

Three players staled last turn. Abysia and I want to have our war!

[Greyjoy]

Life... going... crazy....

An extension is totally fine with me.

[Gandalf Parker]

OK, 5 players with 3 votes in favor of extension so its ok with me.
I will try to catch it just after hosting so its not too extreme, and reset it to 48 hour timeouts.

As far as stales, the last 3 stats files show this:::
http://game.dom3minions.com/games/stackers/

1.stats.txt:Agartha didn't play this turn
1.stats.txt:C'tis didn't play this turn
1.stats.txt:Jotunheim didn't play this turn

2.stats.txt:Agartha didn't play this turn
2.stats.txt:Jotunheim didn't play this turn

3.stats.txt:Agartha didn't play this turn
3.stats.txt:Abysia didn't play this turn
3.stats.txt:Jotunheim didn't play this turn

[Amadamus]

Hmmm... Agartha and Jotun look to be missing in action. C'tis must be hating that! ;)

[Jorus]

Duh....

I said a week ago that I would not be able to submit moves for about a week and asked for a hold - nothing. except I have 4 or 5 stales.

Despite my unfortunate experience, I still have a generous heart and am comfortable with any extension/hold requested. RL prevails.

I should also thank my neighbors for not taking advantage of the situation. And thank Gandelf for not AIing Jotunheim.

[Gandalf Parker]

You did speak up.
Going AI, or getting a Substitute, arent the only options. Some prefer to take the chance. Set their research, monthly castings, maximize their build queues, and hope to return to a really big bank account. I hope it works out for you.

[Nauquan]

Sorry Jorus, I missed the hold request. I'm fine with a hold for what it is worth, but I see you submitted a turn. Only Agartha is missing

[Nauquan]

One of my mad giants has taken the month off to "Attend Funeral"

Love this game.

[Jorus]

whose? BG?

[Amadamus]

Any chance of moving the timer to 72 hrs? These turns are taking a crazy amount of time...

[Nauquan]

I would like longer turns as well. Approve approve approve


C'tis just needs to build his tarts and research :)

[Nauquan]

We might also want to consider setting Agartha to AI.

[Nauquan]

Bump forlonger turns and AI setting for agartha. Having fun with my war of fire, but making lots of mistakes.

[Amadamus]

Seeing as Greyjoy is keeping his nose out of the forums - its ok everyone from Apotheosis forgives you... best to keep Arg player controlled - atleast we are guaranteed 48hrs between turns.

72 would be nice though...

You may think you are doing well Ashdod, but letting you slaughter my armies is part of a plan 'so cunning, that you could stick a tail on it and call it a weasle.'

[Nauquan]

I don't think I am doing that well. You would have a lot less provinces if I was. I keep killing those demons, but they come right back. Meanwhile my few troops are wounded, diseased, and naked.

That mis-begotton battle at Shinyama a couple turns ago, was a particularly bad mistake - I thought the fort was empty :)

Very epic - the few good men vs. the evil hoards.

I am picturing a few battered men finally killing the last demon, leaning on a their torn war banner and broken swords. They look up as the sun rises, and off in the distance thousands of lizardmen are marching towards them.

[Amadamus]

Well it looks like C'tis has been awol for 10ish turns now so thats a bummer. I have had my arse seriously kicked by Ashdod so when i'm done, its an Ashdod C'tis match up - which of course won't be fun due to C'tis absence...

What to do from here?

[Nauquan]

We were thinking of setting C'tis to AI. Then it would be a three-way fight to the finish. Even though C'tis would be AI, it is starting from a strong position.

Good luck in the capital fight.

[Amadamus]

Sounds like your all sorted then!

Good luck in the capital fight
You too. Should be a good scrap.

[Nauquan]

Gandolf,

Could you set C'tis to AI. He has been absent for many turns. Thanks.

[Gandalf Parker]

Allright. Ctis is AI.
I hope everyone was ready for that. Quite a buildup there, and now the dam breaks.

[Jorus]

Uh-oh. :doh:

Go north, AI, go north.

[Nauquan]

He-he - This will be interesting. I see a couple thousand troops near my southern border.

[Jorus]

I guess I'm lucky then, I only see 400 new troops on my northern border. On the other hand, he has attacked several of my provinces during the magic pahase, and captured an internal one. Also has cast plagues and winter (not too much of a problem for us cold loving people) on several provinces.
A very anti-social AI.
BTW, what do these dire portents mean? I don't see any new globals? Or were they dispels?
And an idle question, according to the score graphs - he lost research. How do you do that?

[Jorus]

Gandelf,

Is it possible to see my previous turn somehow? I have been devastated by the loss of units with costly/powerful/rare items (e.g. Rings of S/W). I thought they were present last turn, yet I don't see them (or reports of their demise) anywhere.
On top of all that, after spending almost two hours on my current move the computer crashed. All was lost.
This is very discouraging.
The lack of saved turns is a nuisance (and yes I know I could do it myself, but why then do we have computers??).

[Gandalf Parker]

email me at gandalf on community.net and I can send you the games backups

[Nauquan]

I took out Absyia's pretender who had at least one global up. I figure some of C'tis global casters died due casting spells and suffering horrors from the astral corruption before it was dispelled. I have been hit with a few rituals too - not sure where they are coming from.

[Jorus]

Gandelf,

Thanks, OK I'll do that.

Nauquan,

Well the strange thing is that I got two "Dire Portent" messages announcing Global spells, but they don't show up on the Global list. And Astral Corruption disappeared.

I lost my Pretender 2 turns ago - although I cast Returning, he may not have had the astrals necessary (although he had access to many in the lab) - that should be automatic, but it was my fault. I'm not a micro-manager.

Now last turn I lost my secondary Pretender/champion who I am sure had astrals and was casting returning. I'm 99% sure he was there last turn, but now he is disappeared w/o a trace/report.

Anyhow, back to the move.

J

[Gandalf Parker]

I took out Absyia's pretender who had at least one global up. I figure some of C'tis global casters died due casting spells and suffering horrors from the astral corruption before it was dispelled. I have been hit with a few rituals too - not sure where they are coming from.
All 3 of those things could cause globals to be announced but not appear.
The games coding is very linear. When someone casts a global, the message is created. If something else later in the turn sequence takes out that caster then the global might be removed but not the message IIRC.

EDITED:
http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Turn_resolution
Note that the casting of globals occurs on step 5, and the actual effects of globals is figured into the game on step 16

[Jorus]

Ctis has started his move south by taking 2 out of the 3 provinces he attacked. No sign (yet!) of Tartarians. I wonder if there is a guide anywhere about successful strategies against an AI. What is he doing in the north?

Is there any cooperation we can do? I took two provinces from Ryleh, but his count remained the same - does that mean he is moving south also?

J

[Nauquan]

Since it is just the two of us, can we extend the turns to three or four days? Please.

Now about that Illwinter... This is not the spell to cast if you want some cooperation :)

[Jorus]

I have said some time ago that I am happy to adjust the server timing to anything the other players want. Still feel the same. Just make a concrete proposal (e.g. 3 or4 days) to Gandelf, maybe also by e-mail.

Illwinter: Yeah, I felt bad about it, I don't even know whether Ashdod likes cold or not, but I know Ctis doesn't - and he is the more immediate concern. Besides, you knocked out my Astral collection spell. :shock:

J

[Nauquan]

Gandalf,

Can we extend the turns to 96 hours from now on? There is just two of us left.

I'll send a PM too.

Thanks.

[Gandalf Parker]

OK its been extended

[Jorus]

Nauquan,

You've missed several turns now, are you prepared to concede? :D

I would like to play this out, so if you plan to

1. quit - please find a sub or let's put Ashdod on AI and I can practice my end-game skills (which are non-existent).

2. play after missing a few turns, but are just building up gems/whatever - just let us know.

3. start making your moves - fine. 96 hours OK?

In any case, it is a bit annoying that I have to wait for the full 96 hours for you NOT to make a move. Sometimes I'm ready earlier and would like to make back-to-back moves and get this game going.

J

[Nauquan]

Sorry I missed a couple. The first I was almost done and missed the turn, the second I just got busy. I'll try to do better. I really do need the full time to do a turn.

[Jorus]

No problem, if 96h is not enough - we can go longer. J

[Jorus]

I will be travelling for the next two weeks and although I can make my next move by Wednesday, it will be questionable after that.

Gandelf - is it possible to remove the time limits during this period? In other words, the turn only happens when we both get moves in.

Nauquan - is that acceptable to you?

J

[Nauquan]

Gandolf, please give Jorus any extension that he needs. Thanks.

[Jorus]

We can return to a schedule, thanks for your cooperation! J

[Nauquan]

Do you want to leave it like this and see how it goes? As long as we take turns every few days this might be more convienent.

[Jorus]

Sounds good, let's give it a shot. Maybe we can wrap this up in 2011?

[Nauquan]

Probably. YOu still have a lot of lizards to kill :)

[Jorus]

These HOT lizard sanwiches are getting a bit tiresome, and sickening, but we shall continue.

The ball is in your court...!

J

[Nauquan]

We are collecting all the balls and hope to play with them soon.

[Jorus]

Ping!

Don't mean to push, but just preenting opportunities. I could probably get another move out today, otherwise it will have to sit until Tuesday. No problem for me either way....

[Nauquan]

Sorry - can't do my turn till the weekend.

[Nauquan]

Having trouble with the server. It says "waiting for game info" and then hangs after I connect.

[Nauquan]

Works now. Thanks or never mind.

[Jorus]

Perhaps it couldn't handle so much treachery in one turn? ;)

Seriously, no problem (ethically, that is) with your attack since all we had was an understanding at best. If I were in your shoes I would do the same. You let me take a beating from Ctis on the BF and with his DomKill/disease for a bunch of turns, and as soon as you see the tide turning in my direction - BAM! Masterful.

The next few turns will tell the tale, maybe we won't make it to 2011 after all!

J

PS
After the game is over perhaps you can tell me how Polydamus doubled his HP to 440?

[Gandalf Parker]

Works now. Thanks or never mind.
That might have been me.
I got your message and restarted the game. I think someone was hung in a connection.
Havent pinned that bug down. I think it might be from using the X to kill dom3 instead of the menu to QUIT. Dom3 isnt very good with windowsy things.

Sorry I didnt respond. I was too mind-blank yesterday to type an answer. Health thing.

[Nauquan]

You give me too much credit. I had to kill R'leyh first.

I have Gift of Health up - that may be the reason.

[Nauquan]

Sorry, I might have caused the problem. I thought I was hung and closed the window.

[Nauquan]

Jorus,

If you are going to spend this long crafting the perfect counter-attack, I'll have to spend even longer crafting the counter-counter-attack. :)

[Jorus]

Nauquan,

Sorry for the lack of replies - for some reason I was not notified of your comments, and I have not been checking the posts.

Anyhow, your attack made my already interminable movemaking even worse. I finally had the units/armies doing what they were supposed to be doing - and now had to rewrite everything. Plus I knew it was going to be a lot of work, and probably fruitless, so the motivation was not there - apologies.

The last turn was the final nail in the coffin. But I learned some good info - the Claws of Cocytus works as advertised. I should have distributed my Skratti around with blood slaves and pre-scripted for CoC and we would have had more fun.

Anyhow, I concede.

Congratulations on your victory with a rather dramatic conclusion.

Finished in 2010!

J

[Nauquan]

Jorus,

I was just teasing you about the time. I really didn't mind.

I am disappointed that you are conceding, though I understand. We really didn't get to see what damage your armies and mages could do to me, as I just grabbed a bunch of undefended territory. I am sure you would have given me a hard time.

I had never seen CoC. Quite effective. No MR roll! 100 Percision! Also, I have grown to hate Astral Corruption.

Thanks for the game. Hope to play with you again sometime.

Nauquan

[Nauquan]

Hey All!

I won the first MP Dominions game that I ever played! Noobs rule!

Of course I played Ashdod, so everyone will say it doesn't count.

:)

[rdonj]

Nah, we'll just say everyone who didn't gang up on you in that game was a noob.

Which is technically true.

[Jorus]

Rdonji - hard to gang up in a "stackers" map. Especially when he bordered the sea.

Nauguan - Yeah, I was looking forward to some awesome final battles (which is why I concentrated on Ctis), but your sneak attack gutted my economy/gems/dominion. You can't have it both ways...:D
Having said that, you have saved us countless hours preparing for and participating in the apocalypse. Thanks!

J