STACKERS, newbie game, (started)

[Gandalf Parker]

STACKERS
This is a game which is good for people who are playing their first multiplayer game of Dominions 3. Its on a tower map which means it will be limited battlefronts. From the early to mid game you will probably have only 2 people to worry about. The one above you and the one below you. Later in the game Tower maps cut down micromanagement, and make the F1 menu work better.

Era: Middle Age ...... Mods: none ................ Indy strength: 7
Magic Sites: 65 ....... HoF Entries: 15 .......... Renaming: On
going AI: off ..............Cheat Detection: on .... Multiplayer check: on
Server: game.dom3minions.com ... Port: 10555
(this is a direct connect game)

Scores and other files will be web posted at http://game.dom3minions.com/games/stackers/
Turn notifications are available by email or text messaging. PM me your email or phone number info. Turn files are available by direct connect (recommended), email, ftp, or browser download. Turning in of turns can be done by email for one-time special situations but is not recommended, this is a direct connect game. The ability to set yourself to Computer Player will be off in this game. You are encouraged not to give up. If someone absolutely must drop out then all effort will be made to get a substitute. As a last resort I might manually set the person to AI so the game can continue. Rollback policy will be extreme. Backups will be made but rollbacks unlikely. Going stale twice in a row without explanation will be cause for being replaced.

If we dont get enough players after awhile I may turn some on as vanilla AI's (computer players) in order to start.
The asterisk * shows that the pretender has been received for that nation

Land Players:
01) Verigorm -------- Man ------------ *
02) Jorus ------------- Jotunheim ---- *
03) Greyjoy --------- Ctis ------------- *
04) KrPeters--------- Ermor ---------- *
05) coffeespoons -- Pythium ------ *
06) Nauquan -------- Ashdod ------- *
07) Freykin ---------- Agartha ------- *
08) Otic --------------- Shinuyama -- *
09) Amadamus ---- Abyssia ------- *
10) computer ------ Marignon ------ *
11) cwkjc ------------- Bandar Log -- *
12)

Water Players:
01) 13lackGu4rd --- R'lyeh --- *
02)
03)

The map can be viewed here http://www.dom3minions.com/files/SmTower.jpg
Or available for download at http://www.dom3minions.com/files/SmTower.zip
It is not necessary to download the map. If you start the game and do not have it then the game will send a temporary map to you. Downloading the map ahead of time will allow you to skip that step and give you a personal copy you can play with locally. But doing that for every game can eventually clutter up your maps directory.

[Gandalf Parker]

For those who have not played a direct connect game, here is whats involved for this game.
First, turn off any mods.
Design a god for Middle Era in the Game Tools, give it a password, save it.
Use the Network menu in the game, connect to game.dom3minions.com, and then port 10555
Choose your nation then scroll down and hit disconnect (NOT START)

That will upload your god to the server and close the nation you chose from selection by others.

Once the game begins it plays pretty much like a solo game but with more people. About once a day you will want to connect to the server which will automatically give you your turn. Make your moves and when you hit "end" it will automatically be sent to the server. Then simply disconnect. Anytime up until the game "hosts" the next turn you can reconnect to make changes in your actions.

[Tonno]

I would like to join if possible...?

[Gandalf Parker]

Sure. Do you have a preference for a middle era nation? One that matches your style of play?
Mentioning it now can reserve it while you work on your pretender for it

[Tonno]

I often play with marigon,so I would reserve it...:)

[Gandalf Parker]

ok the first post has been edited that you have claimed Marignon. Welcome aboard.

[Tonno]

Ok thx...:D

[13lackGu4rd]

well, I'm a little past newbie stage, but not by much, and I never played in a huge all nations game before, so this seems like a pretty good opportunity. all 3 UW nations would be at a huge disadvantage under those settings, having so little water and only at the edges, so by taking an UW nation I'm evening the playing field assuming everybody else who will play is also a newbie.

so if everything goes according to your plan Gandalf you can sign me up for R'lyeh, hopefully I'll be able to actually be a contender...

[kenmtraveller]

I've been meaning to try out MP for awhile, but my time is limited. How often would turns go in this game? One per day?

Ken

[Gandalf Parker]

@kemtraveller yes Im afraid this one is setup as one a day.

@13lackGu4rd yes I know. I have no problem if only 1 water nation joins. But on the other maps with enough water to give 3 water nations equal prov-counts to the land nations tend to cause the other problem since often only 1 water nation joins. Also, note that the map wraps top-to-bottom. So there isnt water at each end, there is just one water. So if another water nation joins you will be neighbors

[Verjigorm]

I'm not really that new... but I am newish to MP Dominions 3. I will take a spot, but I would like someone else to choose my nation.

Additionally, is there to be a gentleman's restriction on clamming or are we all bound to the almighty Clam of Pearls?

[Gandalf Parker]

Well we can leave you set as ??? and let you inherit the last nation. I rather like playing that way also. It lets me experiment with the "everyone knows it sucks" nations and throw surprises into the game :)

There are no rules or mods. This is strictly a newbie game with as few complications as possible. If anyone wants to pursue one of the popular strategies then they may.

[13lackGu4rd]

I actually like this semi rand concept for not 100% newbies who wish to join this game, that's the reason why I chose a water nation instead of a land nation, as the map severely disadvantages them. as for Verjigorm, I'd suggest a semi rand concept but with all the strong nations removed from it, so the newbies can have a shot with a stronger nation. powerful nations for real newbies only should be in my opinion: Niefelheim, Mictlan, Lanka, Sauromatia and Hinnom. the rest could go into the bank pool from which random nations would be chosen to those not 100% newbies who will play here, cause well, you won't be able to fill this game up with just 100% newbies.

[Numahr]

13lackGu4rd, I think you are mixing with EA in your list of "stronger nations" for newbies.

I would like to candidate for Pythium. I may have some 24 hours without internet access, though, not much I can do (Central Asia is a remote place).

Gandalf, do we have an expected kick-off date?

[13lackGu4rd]

oh yeah, forgot this was MA :o
so ugh, I guess Pythium, Ermor, Jotunheim and ugh... MA is more balanced than EA as far as nations go... so not all that sure which nations should probably not be in the hands of decent people.

[Gandalf Parker]

No specific start date. The map has 378 land provinces. So 20 land players would be about 18 provs each which is a large game. Id hate to start it with less, and dont want to have more than half the nations be AI.

Im abit spoiled by other forums where games fill in about an hour :)

[Jorus]

sign me up for Jotunheim

[Greyjoy]

I'd like to take C'tis, and yes, I realize this could get interesting depending who I get stacked anywhere near.

But they're the MA nation I'm by far most experienced with, and quite fun if you don't mind miasma upsetting people.

[13lackGu4rd]

yeah, under these settings Miasma isn't as big of an issue, as you can only really upset 2 neighbors at once, so worst case scenario you'll be fighting 1v2, nowhere near as harsh as a 3-4 nation gang bang that sometimes happens to MA C'tis on larger games due to the Miasma effect.

[Greyjoy]

They're still a bit iffy in the early game, before they can get their death gems (and those sexy, sexy couatls) rolling, and before they have the defensive depth to roll with the punches and let their dominion wear you down. But yes, I'd be leery of my first more-than-two-player Dom3 game EVER being the swamp lizards if it weren't a tower. If I start next to one of the giants, some rapid reevaluation may be in order.

That or a summary execution. Given that I'm spoiled for death mages, maybe not in that order.

[Tonno]

Wow...indipendents strenght is 7...is not that a bit to strong for noob game...?

[Gandalf Parker]

Noobs can kill them. Carefully.
But it is also a no-ganging, no rushing game. :)

[krpeters]

So is this project still going forward? If so, I'd like to play MA Ermor. I have gobs of SP experience and zippo MP experience, so I expect I'll be strong at the beginning and then get crushed brutally :)

[coffeespoons]

I'm interested, please.

Previous MP: being butchered in a solitary game.

Any non-gimped land nation please

[Numahr]

Wow...indipendents strenght is 7...is not that a bit to strong for noob game...?

My dear Tonno... we are noob, right... but not that noob that we can't defeat independents who are just waiting to be slaughtered.

By the way, I am running a test game, I have the feeling that with such settings we also get more events like vampire counts and barbarian hordes popping up, am I right?

[Verjigorm]

I don't see an adjustment to random event percentages in the original post, so they wouldn't be more likely. Those particular events are both negative events, so even if random event % was increased, the chance of getting good events would also be similarly augmented. Taking misfortune would increase probability of those events occurring over good ones and taking turmoil over order increases the overall probability of events. Turmoil/Luck can occasionally be an interesting combination to play if you like gambling.

[Gandalf Parker]

If anyone has questions about the game, or really anything, I can often be found in the chat room of this forum. Up near the top of your screen, the link next to Forum Rules.

[coffeespoons]

Further to my post above could you put me down for Pythium, please.

Thanks,

James

[Graeme Dice]

Is this a newbie only, or newbie friendly game where we are expected to not attack too quickly or aggressively. If it's the second, then I'm interested in playing Bandar Log.

[Gandalf Parker]

Well I was hoping to fill it with newbies trying out their mp legs.
But it doesnt work well unless its fairly full.

[Tonno]

question...
I want to bring a friend in this game if possible,and can I reserve abysia for him,he is noob in pvp mode just like me...

And what with turns,I would realy like that thay go every 12h,if possible,but day is good as well...

gandalf what is with dom3 servers,do thay work...
and I think i have a problem as well,so can I pm u...?

[Gandalf Parker]

If the has a copy of the game, sure. And should post his choice of nation here.

The game might go every 12 hours. Thats up to the players. The 24 hours thing is just a maximum deadline to make sure everyone doesnt wait a week on one person

Sure PM me. Im not sure of your question. Or meet me here in the Chat room.
I recommend people try the little games on the server because any problem playing those is usually something to do with firewalls and routers and protection software on your machine. Its best to iron that out ahead of time.

[krpeters]

I just realized a potential issue regarding my participation -- in July I'll be out of the country for 9 days. I don't know if I'll have computer or internet access. What's the preferred way to handle this?

1) Smuggle a copy of Dominions with me and install it on the internet cafe computer

2) Arrange a sub in advance

3) March all my troops home to my capital and set them to patrol, then stale out for the week+

???

[Gandalf Parker]

Short Answer: YES.

Longer Asnwer: Binary true. All of the above. Pick one.

The choices you listed are all in the area of your preference. If you had said sub or go AI then I could say the preference is definitely sub. Or quitting without telling anyone and only apologize when you get back, I could say that doesnt go over well.

I guess if I had to pick just one, it would be sub.

[krpeters]

Yes, I noticed you mentioned you didn't want anyone going AI.

OK, so we'll see who (if anyone) has been eliminated by then, that would make a natural sub, since they'll know what's happening in the game at that point.

[Tonno]

Looks like it is done for me...:(

I have to give up from the game for now...
I hope u will have good time playing it...

[Nauquan]

I would like to join. This will be my first MP game. Please select a nation at random for me. Thanks.

[Gandalf Parker]

YAY! NEW MAP! SMALLER GAME!
The first post of this thread has been updated to reflect the new map. We can start soon.

After generating maps all night I finally got one that had water at the top and bottom (so I could wrap it with my really bad paint program skills). Its only 200 provinces, 180 land and 20 water.

[Verjigorm]

If we are starting soon, may I have a selection for my nation so I can start thinking about pretender design and overall strategy?

[Gandalf Parker]

Do you play RPG games?
Do you prefer to play warrior, mage, priest, thief, druid, barbarian, undead, ranger, sea elf, cthulhu?

[Verjigorm]

If I were choosing based on aesthetics, I would have selected earlier. ;) The idea here is to have what should be considered to be an "underdog" nation either by virtue of overall ability or difficulty to control or by virtue of the nations selected by others.

I have the most experience with Arcoscephale, Marignon, and T'ien C'hi, so none of those would be terribly appropriate.

I was thinking maybe Man, Agartha, Ermor, or Mictlan.

[Gandalf Parker]

My idea of best choice would be whatever matches your gaming style. And worst would be the least match.

I love playing underdogs to be a surprise. :) Pick any you like. Just be sure to pay attention to the built in pros/cons of that nation.

[Verjigorm]

My idea of best choice would be whatever matches your gaming style. And worst would be the least match.

I love playing underdogs to be a surprise. :) Pick any you like. Just be sure to pay attention to the built in pros/cons of that nation.

Very well then, I will take Man.

[Gandalf Parker]

MA Man: one of 3 nations out of over 70 that gets temples at half price in a game called Dominions

[Verjigorm]

MA Man: one of 3 nations out of over 70 that gets temples at half price in a game called Dominions

That's one of my favorite features of Man. My least favorite feature is their 1h basic priest... The two things probably add up to about a wash.

[Willburn]

I would like to play but sadly I cant because I know i will stale on next friday and saterday if its 24 hours per turn game. Hoping there will be a 48 max delay limit game up for newbies soon. Tower map looks great for newbie game.

[13lackGu4rd]

never played on your servers Gandalf, so I have no clue, but can't you insert delays for games on them? the "standard" PBEM games on Llamaserver have no problems delaying the game, is there any particular reason for this pretty necessary feature to be excluded from games on your servers?

[Gandalf Parker]

Yes I can take requests for extensions and handle them. Anything available on pbem servers is available on direct connect also. But Im not sure it would be fair to hold the game for a weekend for one person.

[13lackGu4rd]

well, it's only 1 delay relatively early in the game, so personally I don't see the big issue. especially when such delays are pretty common in the other games around here, the PBEMs, and well, there would be situations in which other players would need delays for a variety of reasons... also, the main issue here is whether Willburn or other players will join us or not, knowing they'll need an extension or 2 relatively early in the game. I think they should be able to play and we can grant them the necessary delays, but that's just me...

[Willburn]

Its ok guys just have fun :) I just ment to say this seemed like great settings for a newbie game. I am sure there will be other oppertunities for me to play in the future :)

[Gandalf Parker]

Well keep watching.
So far only 3 pretenders have been turned in so its not like we are ready to start even on this smaller map

[Greyjoy]

I've been doing some tinkering with C'tis pretenders in SP, and I'll probably resubmit an adjusted one. Just so you know.

[Gandalf Parker]

If it doesnt say that it updated the pretender then let me know. I will delete the one that is there

[Jorus]

Sorry guys, I haven't been reading the posts - just looking at the 1st page to see how the sign-up was going. I was not aware that we were supposed to be submitting Pretenders.
I will do so within 12 hours.

Jorus.

[freykin]

I'd be interested in joining. Not new to the game, but new to MP, have mainly only played against the AI. I'd be interested in playing as Agartha, the Golem Cult flavor sounds like fun :)

[otic]

I'd like to join, if it's not too late. I am new to MP, but I've read a couple of AARs and it looks like a lot of fun. Shinuyama is my pick.

[Gandalf Parker]

Well we have enough players.
As soon as we get enough pretenders uploaded we can start.
The first post of this thread has been updated to show what pretenders we already have.

[Nauquan]

Well since I need to do a pretender, I'll pick Ashdod as a nation

[freykin]

Just uploaded my pretender, looking forward to this :)

[cwkjc]

I'll be pleased to signup, do you still accept newcomers ?

[krpeters]

It looks like we still have room for newcomers.

When are we planning to start?

[cwkjc]

OK let's go and try Bandar Log, I'll post my pretender this evening

[Gandalf Parker]

OK I will start the game tomorrow morning (Thursday approximately 6am Pacific time western USA)

[cwkjc]

I tried to connect to server and i've received this message :
The dominions server or your connection to the internet might be down. Also make sure you entered the correct ip-adress (70.36.184.129) and port number (10555)

the server name is game.dom3minions.com and port number is 10555
did i miss something ?

[krpeters]

I'm getting the same error, is the server down, or something else going on?

[Greyjoy]

Looks a lot like the server's down - can't connect to the main index via Chrome either.

[cwkjc]

i'll try again to load my pretender tomorrow morning...

[Gandalf Parker]

OK its back up.
Someone hit the "start" button. In order to avoid confusion and rollbacks I have it shutting down instead of starting the game. Its back up now.

Please dont start the game after uploading your god.

[cwkjc]

Done

[krpeters]

It would really help if I read directions completely --
"6 am *PACIFIC* time"...
Looks like I'll be turning in my turn when I get back from work. My sysadmin wouldn't approve of me installing Dominions on my work computer :p

[Nauquan]

Are we started, or are we waiting for Pythium? I dont want to hit start game and crash it.

[Gandalf Parker]

Yes we are up and running. Anyone who sent me an email address should have gotten a notice.
If you did not then check your spam trap.

If you want an email sent to you each time the game hosts then PM me an email address.
Or if you want, I can also do text messaging to your cell phone.

[Greyjoy]

I noticed there are a few victory point markers that I didn't see anything about in the starting post. What's that about?

[Gandalf Parker]

The game sets those automatically. As far as I know there is no way to turn it off.
But it is not part of the victory condition of this game.
So treat them however you wish.

[Jorus]

A general (and embaressing:doh:) question. I sent in my dormant Pretender so long ago that I forgot the magic that I assigned him. Is there any way to see this in the game?

thanks,

[13lackGu4rd]

I think this thread will help you: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=41029

[krpeters]

So where do we stand? I see Marignon and Abysia are about to stale.

Yeah, I'm anxious to get started :)

[cwkjc]

I've played my turn 1...

[Gandalf Parker]

The game has hosted. For those who requested email notices (no cell phone text messaging requests received), they should have gone out. If you didnt get one, check your spam folder. If its not there then PM me again.

game.dom3minions.com/games/stackers/ is a directory for web items of this game. This will include back copies of the stats and score files if anyone is interested.
The number-based scoreboard that the game creates (instead of the graphic one inside the game) is available here.
http://game.dom3minions.com/games/stackers/scores.html
The stat file the game creates which shows who did their last turn, didnt do their turn, or is set to AI is available here.
http://game.dom3minions.com/games/stackers/stats.txt

And a check program is available which includes the countdown, and who has done their turns for the next hosting.
http://game.dom3minions.com/bin/stackers.cgi
This saves you the hassle bringing up Dom3 and logging in just to see how the next turn is progressing. This link is not stored data, nor does it use my crappy math. Its the same data you would get if you logged in. Someday I might bang my head on html to make it prettier.

[Jorus]

e-mail did arrive, many thanks!

[Greyjoy]

The numerical scorecard's pretty cool.

Would've been amusing if R'lyeh's pretender (presumably everyone's favorite aquatic death machine, the Ancient Kraken) got itself killed, but alas.

Hopefully the Orange Inquisition and the fire-people get themselves sorted out.

[Gandalf Parker]

The numerical scorecard's pretty cool.

I cant take credit for it. The game generates it. You can even get it for your own solo games by turning it on with a command switch. I think its mentioned in the "changing game defaults" thread.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=44262

[Greyjoy]

Looks like we're down to everyone except, yep, those two.

Anyone who showed up to this thread a bit late and wants to play Marignon or Abysia should probably keep an eye out here.

[krpeters]

So, any word from Tonno / Abysia and ???? / Marginon?

I wouldn't mind getting 2-3 turns in per day...

Well, whoever finds them in game first will have a tastey treat!

[Gandalf Parker]

Actually about the time they are found they would get turned AI. That might also seem a tasty treat but that type of late start is a major AI boost. A common complaint is that the AI's dont make use of its own elite. Starting late means it has lots of gold and only its castle to hire from. Ouch

[13lackGu4rd]

still I'd much rather have a player there, even a newbie, instead of the AI... for 1 the player can actually have useful scripts, for another a player can actually expand properly and lastly a player can engage in diplomacy... still, I'm alone in the water so I'll just wait for whoever enjoys the free land from the AI and beat them into the ground :D

[Greyjoy]

C'tissian plans for dealing with water nations constantly wobble between "lots of useless undead chaff" and "tartarians with water breathing". Can't even use my poison slingers. Well, I COULD, but they'd be beating you with soggy socks.

So I'm not really looking forward to that.

[krpeters]

Well, I know how to deal with underwater AI nations. I don't know how well it works against humans.

(1) Conquer the land
(2) Fill the land with temples
(3) Domkill the ocean races.

So, R'lyeh, get your temples and priests ready -- you're gonna need them!

[Greyjoy]

Works great against EA squids. MA have scads of teleporting illithids.

[Verjigorm]

MA R'lyeh is amphibious and can get out of the water very easily. If they have strong dominion and they build temples in each of their underwater provinces, it is highly unlikely that a domkill strategy will be viable. It will take far too many turns and they have a very nice Astral/Water income with which to make many, many wishes for very powerful units.

[Greyjoy]

It appears that I keep very different operating hours from the rest of you. I apologize if and when I become the limiting factor on turns per day.

[Amadamus]

Any room for one more player?

Hi all, by the way... :)

[13lackGu4rd]

Any room for one more player?

Hi all, by the way... :)

seems like Abysia and Marignon went AWOL so you could fit there if you wish. the thing is that you'll already have a set pretender and soon to be 3 stale turns now, but it's certainly not an inreversible situation as we've just started...

[Amadamus]

Ah didnt know you already started... nevermind.

Good luck all.

[Gandalf Parker]

You dont want to pick up Abysia or Marignon for us?

[Amadamus]

I suppose i could have a look a Abysia. How would i go about it?

[Gandalf Parker]

You dont have PM open for me to send you a private message on this board.
You can email me as gandalf at community.net to get the password

[Amadamus]

PM set up!

[cwkjc]

Great news and welcome

[Amadamus]

Thanks! :)

[Amadamus]

Gandalf, you've set Abysia as computer and Marignon as me - otherway around. Wouldn't want anyone thinking i'm a soft target eh? Wouldn't be fair on them...

[Gandalf Parker]

ACK. Fixed now.

We know you arent playing with a god of your build, and you are getting a late start. Think of it as a ready excuse. If you do well, then great. If not, then its understood. All we can ask is that you are better than setting it AI.
But win or lose, at the least, try and surprise us. :)

[krpeters]

So, is it too early to be discussing ways of getting rid of R'lyeh? ;->

(And is the bulletein board the appropriate place to do it?)

[Greyjoy]

It's never too early. But it's also mostly up to the people on either side of the bay - if he gets onto land, it's going to get ugly.

[krpeters]

Definitely a downside to a tower map -- if we decide to gang up on someone, it's hard to do.

BTW, is the server down?

[Amadamus]

ACK. Fixed now.

We know you arent playing with a god of your build, and you are getting a late start. Think of it as a ready excuse. If you do well, then great. If not, then its understood. All we can ask is that you are better than setting it AI.
But win or lose, at the least, try and surprise us. :)

I'll certainly give it a go...:)

I cant log on either krpeters.

[Gandalf Parker]

That was my fault. The game is back up.

[cwkjc]

Backup means we have to play the turn from the start ?

[Gandalf Parker]

Good point. Sorry. Bad choice of words.
The game stopped on turn processing (because I was sloppy in telling it that Marignon was an allowed AI). It has now processed that turn and is back available. The turn you get now is good and not a re-do

[Gandalf Parker]

Also thanks to cwkjc for pointing out other failings in my crappy scripting. Email notices and scoreboards should work better now. Feel free to let me know by PM or in the Chat if something isnt working right. I dont bite much.

[krpeters]

Wow, I'm way behind on Dominion. I guess everyone likes high dominion SCs?

I'll have a present for them in a few turns once I have paralyze researched ;->

[13lackGu4rd]

yeah, cause paralyze will stop an SC with say amulet of anti magic(a very basic item, and on const4, a very basic research target)... heck, I don't even need that with my pretender, but hey, I'm R'lyeh, paralyze is stolen out of my book! so obviously I can also counter it... ;)

oh and all this talk on how to take me out is so funny. first of all I'm quite far from all of you. second of all, there's no way any of you can actually fight me inside my waters. third of all, I'm R'lyeh, so I can easily go onto land and use the same weapons I have under the seas. fourth of all you've got each other to handle first, especially the normally banned Ashdod... don't mind him myself, as his ability to enter the seas is very limited, however you guys aren't as safe...

but hey, keep focusing on me, doesn't really bother me, especially in this tower map when gang bangs are practically impossible...

[Greyjoy]

I'm resigned to the fact that if Ashdod gets to me before I get to certain research goals, I'm basically dead... but at least I'll splatter afflictions all over his expensive, expensive giants. Which is, you know, a pretty good argument to present to him to expand in the (only) other direction.

The only reason I'm vocal about keeping you underwater is that if I survive to run into you your mindblasters get to go all "lol your undead and plants don't matter" and make my marshmasters' heads explode. And I like my marshmasters.

(As for dominion? I get 10% income plus scales and anyone who comes charging in gets to pretend they're in Vietnam. MA C'tis has every reason to blow the points on it.)

[Nauquan]

Most people will be happy to hear that Ashdod has started next to the water. I'm thinking that a few giants is not the weapon of choice against mind blasters.

[otic]

I wonder if there are any shambler reefs on this map. The ratio of coastal provinces to sea provinces is much lower than normal.

[Verjigorm]

Ashdod is actually relatively easy to knock out very early on. Their units are very few in number and can be swarmed easily. Their thugs don't come into power until they can reach 0 Encumbrance--which is what Ashdod, admittedly, goes for first (Construction). If you can tag team them before they get Reinvigoration, they don't do terribly well. Markata swarms (especially enchanted ones) are nasty versus giants without reinvigoration.

You don't need Paralyze to stop giants--just lots and lots of cheap chaff.

In fact, I have found Paralyze, to be only of middling effectiveness since giants have high magic resistance. You have to send a lot of mages to make it effective and that means sacrificing research in exchange. Thus, if you can do the same thing with Fanaticism/Sermon and some chaff, so much the better. Battle fatigue is not MR negates.

[Greyjoy]

Welp, looks like people are starting to clang into each other. News from my part of the world isn't TERRIBLY interesting yet, other than "yaaaay my worthless site-searcher finally found some gems to make up for spending his entire working life not reading books". Even if it's only a fiddly little water site. Which none of you probably terribly care about, since A) nobody uses water gems and B) I have water paths and can dribble them into frost brands or something like that.

How about the rest of you? Any war dispatches yet?

[otic]

What happened to the turn schedule? I definitely didn't expect to see T9 when I got out of work today.

[krpeters]

What happened to the turn schedule? I definitely didn't expect to see T9 when I got out of work today.

Everyone finished their turn, so the server ran and we moved on to the next turn. Don't worry, you still have 24 hours for your next move.

[Gandalf Parker]

I could set the turns to go at 2am every day. Thats actually better on the server. But people have tended not to like that.

Over time the standard has become Quick Turns, and 24 Hours. The Quick says we will process a new turn whenever everyone has turned in a turn. Beware if you are the last person. As soon as you hit End it will host which means you wont have time to second guess yourself and make changes. If everyone gets their turns in we could host 3 or 4 times.

The 24 hours is a maximum we will wait. That keeps everyone from waiting a week for one person. At 24 hours we will host even if someone hasnt done a turn yet.

So dont count on the times too strictly. If we Quickhost then the 24 hours starts over from then. But there should always be at least 24 hours for everyone to get in a turn. If the game gets long and turns get time consuming we might extend that.

[Greyjoy]

Yeouch. That province was made of pain and wight mages. That definitely stings a bit.

[cwkjc]

News from Bandar Gol : When an event is bad, it's bad ;)

[13lackGu4rd]

what did you get? Vampire Count? Bogus and company? plague? that magic storm thing that destroys your gems? there are many bad events that can really devastate you early game, and sometimes even further ahead. some are really game breaking(like a Vampire Count or Bogus and company taking your capital on turns 2-5) some just set you back a lot(plague, magic storm, etc) and some are just bad luck but manageable.

[cwkjc]

In a same province of misfortune :
consecutively Barbarian horde > Brigands > Villains

It's manageable and immersive, now i love the people of this mysterious forest and border mountain : Autumn was difficult and the climate warming may be...

It was fun to conquest - reconquest - pacify - and hold

And you any good or bad events ?

[Nauquan]

I haven't seen a random event - good or bad. I was wondering if they were less frequent in MP games.

[Gandalf Parker]

Should be about the same. But the scales you chose do have a lot to do with it.

Altho in the above case, a province of continual events sounds like there might be a hidden magic site causing misfortune

[13lackGu4rd]

yeah, there are plenty of random sites causing all sorts of randomness. death/misfortune increasing sites, plague spreading sites, etc. some also come with good attributes such as +1 death gems but spreads plague.

also, going with Order and no luck/misfortune scales reduces the amount of random events you'll get compared to any other combination. Order reduces the chance of random events, both luck and misfortune increase it(for good or bad) so Order3Luck/Misfortune0 could cause a phenomena of having almost no random events. of course luck plays a huge factor in that as well, as always...

[freykin]

I got a lucky gold windfall random right as I ran out of gold. Agartha is progressing, albeit slowly. I'm also near the water, so running into Ryleh shall be interesting if they progress in my direction first.

[Greyjoy]

Agartha and C'tis: leaders in the field of getting mercenaries slaughtered!

You'd think word would get around at some point.

[13lackGu4rd]

had a relatively slow start, considering the fact that I got an awake SC pretender(obvious from the graphs, nothing new here) yet I'm still the largest nation :o

so anyway, I really recommend you guys(Ashdod and Agartha for now) to stay clear of the waters, they're mine and you won't be able to kick me out of them any time soon.

[Verjigorm]

Wow, you guys give away a lot of information ;) Remember how valuable information is.

[13lackGu4rd]

not giving away anything that's not already visible in the graphs and already mentioned by others in here... also, Verjigorm, remember that information is also a resource, not just valuable.

[Greyjoy]

Which isn't to say some of us might miscalculate, of course. But thus far nothing I've said in this thread is of profound importance in a game with scorecharts. Well, maybe the mercenary thing is a little important, but anyone who's paying attention to the listing and army score can surmise that anyone hiring out to Agartha or me better have their life insurance paid up, and that we've done most of the hiring.

I guess all I'm looking to get back from here is amusing anecdotes explaining things I already knew in one fashion or another. Preferably catastrophic things - Agartha, I'm looking at you, that big downward spike can't have been ALL dead mercs. Sadly, the best catastrophes in the near future are probably going to involve wars, and that's privileged information... that I still wouldn't mind hearing, of course.

Private messages, now, that's another matter. That's where Blackguard has a point.

Edited to add: to be fair, anyone volunteering to play Man clearly is either more brilliant, more sneaky, or possibly more insane than most of us, so I can see why you'd be cagier than us chatty schmucks.

[Gandalf Parker]

In fairness to new players I feel I should mention that information can also be propaganda :)

[krpeters]

In fairness to new players I feel I should mention that information can also be propaganda :)

This is where I as Ermor say, "Don't be scared of me on the score charts, that's an army of pathetic skeletons which you can banish easily enough", right?

[Verjigorm]

In fairness to new players I feel I should mention that information can also be propaganda :)

This is where I as Ermor say, "Don't be scared of me on the score charts, that's an army of pathetic skeletons which you can banish easily enough", right?

Drain scale can fix that.

Skull Mentors fix the whole Research Point loss thing.

[freykin]

Sure thing Ryleh, once you get off my lawn :P

[Greyjoy]

*screams*

Plan ahead, get shafted by hotel wifi failure, and STILL miss the turn by less than an hour.

Oh well. Chalking that stale up to the Will of Fate.

Edited to add: hey Gandalf, any way I could get the turn I staled emailed to me or something? I'd really like to have a look at a battle report there (and any random events and suchlike).

[krpeters]

Bogus and friends decided to pay my empire a visit. Province 117 is now available to anyone who is bored and has a teleport spell researched. I can't imagine why you'd want it, but I thought it would be amusing to offer it to you all :)

[Verjigorm]

Bogus and friends decided to pay my empire a visit. Province 117 is now available to anyone who is bored and has a teleport spell researched. I can't imagine why you'd want it, but I thought it would be amusing to offer it to you all :)

You've just given away a scrying target location for your nation.

[cwkjc]

Somebody knows now all the locations ?

[13lackGu4rd]

if you mean all capital locations than no, and none of us should know, as it will give whoever does a huge advantage over the rest of us...

[Verjigorm]

It would be impossible for anyone who did not have access to the server to know all of the start locations at this time, and that would require cheating. I would be surprised if anyone had knowledge of more than 2 at this time.

[Gandalf Parker]

Some nations have faster scouts (pangaea, caelum). And later in the game there is a spell which shows the whole map.

Some nations also have free scrying or can get it really early in the game. That allows them to peek at one specific provinces. For some maps (this one included) you can make some reasonable guesses on where to peek.

But at turn 13? I dont think anyone knows all of them yet.

[Gandalf Parker]

Cwkjc pointed out an error in the http://game.dom3minions.com/bin/stackers.cgi
it should be working now.
( ) means AI, + means move turned in, - means waiting on turn, * means connection in progress

[otic]

Could I get an extension until 2PM US Central time, Tuesday?

I'm stuck in a rural location for memorial day and the nearest restaurant with wi-fi is closed.

[krpeters]

You've just given away a scrying target location for your nation.

As if I'm that hard to find... or anyone really needs to find me that badly.

Gee, I wonder which provinces R'lyeh owns!

[Gandalf Parker]

Could I get an extension until 2PM US Central time, Tuesday?

Granted

[otic]

Thanks for the extension

unfortunately, I drove to the nearest wifi (a bar with probably more taxidermy than I've seen outside of a museum) and found that their router and my laptop can't get past second base. I really don't have any other Internet access this week without doing an awful lot of driving.

Very sorry about this, but you will have to replace shinuyama

[cwkjc]

a bar with probably more taxidermy than I've seen outside of a museum

:D

And you're defintively out ? there's no solution ?

[freykin]

Sorry about the stale turn, I thought I had the timing right and was off by an hour ><. Finals week is rough!

[otic]

And you're defintively out ? there's no solution ?

Well, I'm back in town now and I have regular Internet again. I can continue to take turns, as it doesn't look like anyone has taken over shinuyama yet.

Unfortunately, my northern neighbor grew to about twice my size in the time I was gone. I will need a bit of luck to be anything more than a speed bump.

[Greyjoy]

Best of luck to you then, since I'm pretty sure I'm not your northern neighbor and therefore I want you to cause him as much trouble as possible.

(Jotunheim? Man? Yeah, I know, you'd be silly to say, gotta be nervous enough about both your neighbors already. I'm just idly guessing based on the explicably scary and inexplicably scary on the scorechart.)

The squids definitely have a lot of gems. I mean, yeah, okay, we all saw that coming, voice of tiamat + astral probe, but it's still scary to be on the other end of it. Especially with my first sitesearcher being completely incompetent.

I don't think he's found a single site. All the growth you see on my graph? Yeah, that's from the later employees or my pretender. Some dedicated scout HE turned out to be.

Lastly and minorly: I finally got around to mucking with Ashdod in SP, and sweet Jesus I'm glad we're playing CBM. Turns them from hellishly overpowered to... er... hellishly overpowered but with a bit of a gold bottleneck? Mages running from 200g (gotta love guaranteed lv2 in a path, though) to rather a whole lot more.

[13lackGu4rd]

yeah, Ashdod is by far the strongest nation in all 3 eras. well, Ashdod and Hinnom I guess ;) and it will become a monster unless you guys stop it early. I don't envy his southern neighbor, who ever he may be but well, he's got me on his north and without water access for the time being.

and yeah, you're right about my gem income, mainly Voice of Tiamat, no surprise there...

[Verjigorm]

Best of luck to you then, since I'm pretty sure I'm not your northern neighbor and therefore I want you to cause him as much trouble as possible.

(Jotunheim? Man? Yeah, I know, you'd be silly to say, gotta be nervous enough about both your neighbors already. I'm just idly guessing based on the explicably scary and inexplicably scary on the scorechart.)

The squids definitely have a lot of gems. I mean, yeah, okay, we all saw that coming, voice of tiamat + astral probe, but it's still scary to be on the other end of it. Especially with my first sitesearcher being completely incompetent.

I don't think he's found a single site. All the growth you see on my graph? Yeah, that's from the later employees or my pretender. Some dedicated scout HE turned out to be.

Lastly and minorly: I finally got around to mucking with Ashdod in SP, and sweet Jesus I'm glad we're playing CBM. Turns them from hellishly overpowered to... er... hellishly overpowered but with a bit of a gold bottleneck? Mages running from 200g (gotta love guaranteed lv2 in a path, though) to rather a whole lot more.

Pythium, Ashdod and their relatives are the nations I never play because, if I win, I always feel like I've cheated somehow....

Ashdod is lovely because it's mages are so powerful, you can easily take an imprisoned Bless pretender build, and your Bless doesn't even have to be top notch, so you can take fabulous scales too (because you need them anyway), the +2 Heat requirement also gives you a lovely extra 80 DPs just because Ashdod really needs that boost. My second favorite power mage being the joined-path King of the Deep from Atlantis. 3W plus a 2-linked that can make 1/5 a 5W mage which is nothing to sneeze at on the land and completely deadly underwater--easily summoning masses of regenerating water elementals... just lovely.

Giants, once they are outfitted with appropriate gear, become, not just thugs, but recruitable SCs. They are incredibly powerful. On top of all the awesome stats they have, they can also wear 3 pieces of jewelry. Also note:

They have hideously cheap slinger slaves (and you know you have to take at minimum production 0 or you'll have crap for an army for a very long time) and 1/3 Talmai Elder can easily cast Flaming arrows, so you have Fire-immune SCs stomping around with swarms of deadly chaff.


I have found Pythium (and especially Sauromatia) to be similar. My brother is fond of using Emerald Lords as thugs in MA, and they are quite tough little units especially when backed up by some lovely buffs like Body Ethereal, Luck and Quickness.

[Greyjoy]

Pythium I'd say dances on the line. It's not as conspicuously overpowered as Hinnom/Ashdod - Gath is somewhat closer to sanity just because there are so many other LA nations with decent conventionals, thugs, or vampires - but there isn't much in the way of obvious weaknesses and they have a lot of decent strengths. They do fall a little short in magic diversity, but with very strong air and astral and okay water, I'm not sure they need it. Extremely decent infantry, an absolutely insane early game, mages that are purpose-built for communions, some pretty good thugs, and the lower levels of angels are GREAT.

So are the Seraphs, obviously, but in endgame anybody with astral's going to wish them up anyway, so them being Pythium "nationals" doesn't really count in my book.

I hadn't really thought of the emerald dudes as a thug chassis. You're right, they're really pretty good. More importantly, they're incredibly cost-effective. A nice thing to segue to if you get carried away with the early-game hydra rush and someone pulls poison immunes out of their bum.

Pythium's really more on the level of Van, Jotun, and so on. Whether that's "overpowered" or just "top tier" depends on your point of view, I suppose.

[krpeters]

So one thing that has me worried about this tower map... if we do decide we need to gang up on someone, it seems like the only thing we can do is funnel gold & gems to the poor guys adjacent to the troublemaker?

Later on I guess teleporting would work also.

So is it safe to assume R'leyh is clamming? Or is that huge gem income from site searching?

[Greyjoy]

Last time I checked, clams were invisible to the graph, so the reality's probably even worse.

R'lyeh's just spamming the hell out of Voice of Tiamat. Between that and his bazillion astral mages, he can sitesearch all 20+ of the map's water provinces for five types of site pretty painlessly. Six if he designed his SC with a dash of nature or death. And it's not actually a BAD idea to convert a lot of those gems you won't be using anyway and drop Akashics on captured land provinces. (It may be a bad idea to do it on sea ones, though, unless you see weird scales and really want to reveal the site causing them. Or have ludicrous amounts of gems and forgot to bring a nature caster to find kelp forts.)

Strictly speaking, it's not IMPOSSIBLE to bring more players to bear, especially if someone's getting hit hard on the other flank; on the other hand, best-case scenario leaves you with a pretty lengthy and of necessity very thin supply line, for a gain that may or may not be worthwhile. Depends whether you feel that stopping, let's say, Ashdod is worth committing some of your armies to a risky task as opposed to eating the buffer state outright and praying you can handle the threat on the other side.

Don't underestimate the power of gem donations, though. A couple (dozen) good thugs can turn quite the tide.

[Gandalf Parker]

That is the idea of the map. To make it so that ganging cannot easily occur in early game. So yes it will probably wait for spells, or bribery.

And you missed one. Some nations have the ability to send entire armies thru other peoples territory. An ability generally overlooked but a possibly useful ally in this game.

[freykin]

True, some sides have stealthy soldiers and commanders, they could easily do some guerilla tactics. I know that if I had that available as Agartha I'd be taking advantage of it heavily.

[Nauquan]

Just so y'all can sleep better at night. The squishy fishies and Ashdod are already fighting each other.

[Greyjoy]

I can - and I really shouldn't be reminding people of this, but hey, maybe the utility to my friends will offset the utility to my enemies - send empoisoners and their ld10. Which isn't really huge for conquest or raiding, but with a bit of gearing they can be godawful annoying (and the ten escorts give them half a fighting chance if they're caught by a minimal PD or something).

C'tis isn't really Vanheim, though. And marshmasters have to walk to their destination. Unless I really want to break out the Faerie Trod, which is a spell level I can't be arsed to look up right now and anyway is a spell I should probably test out. Isn't it one of the ones that can get your army disappeared?

Edited to add, having read the above comment: HOORAY!

[13lackGu4rd]

lol, you call that "fighting" Nauquan? :o that was more like an expansion party trying to form a base on the coastline, not much else...

and yes, I already mentioned that all this gem income you see on the score graphs is Voice of Tiamats. it ain't not secret that it's the best remote site searching spell, and makes finding water gem income a breeze... and well, clam income is invisible...

[rdonj]

Yes, if someone is clamming you won't know it until you either see their clams, or realize that they are casting wish multiple times each turn.

[Jorus]

Perhaps this has been noted already, but when I connect to the server, download the latest turn and then "options/quit" - a 2H turn file is uploaded, even after I accept the warning that my turn will NOT be uploaded.
The last turn was a bit of a surprise for me as I had not yet submitted any build orders, and only a few moves.
I guess the thing to do is to quit immediately and then log in as a local game.

[Gandalf Parker]

Yes that is broken in the game. To do your turn offline requires
A) connect and download turn
B) quit Dom3
C) reopen Dom3 and select "Play an Existing Game"
D) open the stackers game and work on your turn. Hitting end as many times as you want.
E) when you are satisfied with your turn then connect to the game and hit end to send in your turn

[Nauquan]

Nope - not a kraken :D

[Greyjoy]

I've always thought Void Lords were REALLY COOL. Bit expensive, but they have slots! And a lifedrainy trunk!

[Verjigorm]

The Void Lord is my favorite R'lyeh chassis. I like the Polypal Queen thing in EA, though--just for looks, mostly.

[13lackGu4rd]

jee, so much for keeping private information to yourself Ashdod. oh well, hunting season on you has begun, before you grow too powerful to swallow all of us whole... unfortunately it's hard to gang up on you in this tower map, but if any of you guys still don't realize the threat that Ashdod is to everyone than just take a look at Ashdod's wiki page, these forums(hint, Ashdod is banned from most MP games) and of course the score graphs. also keep in mind that while I appear to be big and strong I'm also very limited to the water area, thus can't expand at will onto land. this is especially true as I've got said Ashdod as my southern neighbor(yes, that means just south of the water area on the map)... so my current power on the graphs is currently very misleading, and Ashdod has already caught up on most of the graphs, all barring research IIRC(and that's only due to Voice of Tiamat, soon though he'll have enough territory and time to search it all to catch up there as well).

and yes, you read my mind perfectly Greyjoy, the Kraken would have just been useless way too fast, especially on this map. no magic, poor slots and aquatic(so requires 1 of the miscs for amulet of the fish, which is harder to craft in vanilla as compared to CBM). the Wyrm also suffers from bad slots and no magic but at least is amphibian, still very costly for its very limited utility early game. the Void Lord does all that, and remains useful later on thanks to his normal slots, so yes I payed more for him initially but he's paying me dividends now...

[Nauquan]

Gee - Does this mean we are fighting now? :shock:

[13lackGu4rd]

do you see a serious army of mine at your border...? didn't think so... so jee, I don't know, you tell me? but no, we're not "friendly" if that's what you're asking, that would be stupid seeing that you're Ashdod and all that... for me to secure your north, and by a good margin(all the water area) would be suicidal both for me and everybody else(as it will allow you to run rampant with nobody to even attempt to stick a metal bar in between your wheels)

oh yeah and those Mermans were really funny, no idea what you tried to accomplish with them... but hey, come again, I'll welcome more of these attempts with open arms ;) bring some commanders with gear too while you're at it, who wouldn't want some free gear? :D

[Nauquan]

On second thought, since I am new to MP games here. Did I just violate some etiquette by posting that screen? Since we did not have any sort of agreement, I thought it was fair, but I might be wrong.

I am not going to argue about who is winning. No doubt Ashdod starts well against independents, but I am sure my inexperience will tell in the later parts of the game.

[13lackGu4rd]

yes, it did break "etiquette" or whatever you wanna call it. private information is generally to remain private, or shared with specific parties involved in whatever the information is about. in this case there was absolutely no justification for it, heck, there wasn't even another party involved, not to mention everybody in the game...

and no, it's not just "Ashdod starts well against independents" it's more like Ashdod does that, and has terrific mid game and spectacular late game. forgive me for not explaining all your strengths in each stage of the game, as it'll basically give you a sword to chop my own head with... very unwise... yes your inexperience will probably take its toll, but we're all newbies here(some only a bit more experienced than others), but not realizing Ashdod's horrible imbalances is almost a crime.

[Greyjoy]

Don't worry, I'm even more terrified of Ashdod than I am of you.

Shinuyama's his southern neighbor (or will be once he finishes eating AI Marignon), so anyone who wants to help that war effort but is hesitant about funding cephalopods can toss spare gems Shin's way. As a bonus, bakemono magical diversity is pretty ridiculous.

[Nauquan]

13lackGu4rd,

I am sorry I posted that information. I'll keep my information more private since that is the custom.

[Greyjoy]

I don't really think posting privy intelligence falls in the same league as breaking alliances/NAPS or, god help you, trade agreements; but you certainly didn't please Blackguard. ;)

[13lackGu4rd]

I don't really think posting privy intelligence falls in the same league as breaking alliances/NAPS or, god help you, trade agreements; but you certainly didn't please Blackguard. ;)

never said it was in the same category, but it's still something that is against the norm in this community... take a look at other MP games here, count the amount of times you see such private information sent in public. personally I haven't seen any such a case, please point 1 or 2 to me if you do find them. if you don't than well, that was my point...

P.S Legendary Ordeals is different, all the images there are from Burnsaber(the game master) of that game, as its a special format. notice that he's not actually playing but taking an active admin duty, just like a DnD game master.

[Gandalf Parker]

Was this info sent to you in private message or email? THAT would have been wrong.

But if you saw it in the game then probably the worst thing you did was post it negligently. It is game info. If you had sold the info, or posted it in an aggressive manner such as "this is what he has and this is where its located", or used it for propaganda purposes then that might have been more game-like :) Of course you would have to live with the impression.

[13lackGu4rd]

"game-like" maybe, but still it's not something that is being done around here... go ahead and look for previous examples on these boards of people posting such information publicly in the game thread. personally I haven't seen any but it doesn't mean there aren't, just that I haven't stumbled upon any, and I've looked into all the top 2 or 3 pages of MP games here...

[cwkjc]

Excuse my poor english (i wasn't a good student)

As we are all newbs in MP except 13lackguard and maybe 1 or 2 more players (tell me i'm not sure), it seems to me clear that we make errors and don't follow the established rules.
(what are they ? I don't know)

But all this don't shock me, i have a real fun to play with you, i think we don't have the same level in the game but in fact it doesn't matter.

One part of the game is communication and information. The difficulty for a strong nation in a MP game (i suppose) is to show/communicate enough weaknesses to not attract the attention...

If all the players agree on one unique threat, the threatener will have more difficulties to survive ?

So Naquan and 13lackguard are competing to explain that yes they are well developped but they are not a real threat, and have drawbacks (aquatic / lack of experience)...

And if i was 13lackguard i would be happy to have a drawback more : my pretender is public now !!! In fact it's a very good point for him and he would thanks naquan for it, is less a threat now (but he's still strong) this kind of communication and event is really good.

And now what will happen, if they decide to npa together ? the two strongest nations decide to divide the world, sure to the final fight ? having a neighbour or an ally in a stacker game is a real adavantage, you have just one war to manage each time, and you are sure to spend your armies on one side, i think it will be tremendous advantage.

I really like my first MP game...
Thank you Gandalf, stackers is a great idea for beginners

[Gandalf Parker]

Thanks for the thanks. That is the payment that keeps free things coming. :)

[Greyjoy]

Aye. Both this game in particular and the server in general are awful handy things to have. Thanks for running them (and publicizing them; I'm a born lurker, probably would have taken me a while to throw something together myself).

[Jorus]

Void Lord Posting

Personally, imho just because something hasn't been done before doesn't automatically put it on the forbidden list.

So 13lackguard created a terrifying SC, and now he wants to sucker-punch every newbie in the game with it. Tough.

What would happen in real/fantasy life? - the word would spread like lightning. Because it's terrifying.

Naquan - don't worry about it.

[rdonj]

It's actually not that frightening really... without gear. I want to say more here about why it's not that frightening in comparison to certain other people but I don't quite feel justified doing so in a game I'm not in :P

And as far as the screenshot of the god, well, it's not exactly forbidden or anything, but it's a bit... hmm, I had a better word earlier, but let's go with unsportsmanlike. It's something I would frown upon seeing in a game. It's one thing if you are collaborating with someone to give them information about the enemy's god, but giving that out in public definitely doesn't quite sit right. Anyway, it's probably not a big deal for this game... it's a newbie game, and talking about things is a good way to learn about them. It's good to be aware that sort of thing might alienate other players though.

[otic]

Mmmmm pretender porn

It's so gratifying to finally see the root of Blackguard's power

And that tentacle is just to die for! :p:p:p

[Gandalf Parker]

Mmmmm pretender porn
Heehee. Snapshot a god, photoshop the image, post it publicly.
Not my style but it might be funny

[Nauquan]

Just to clarify, the information was obtained after my elite squad of mermen penetrated the border to raid a possible construction site. They sucessfully killed a couple security guards and one fishy looking guy in a red robe. Before they could withdrawal this large half man half octupus teleported into our midst.

Foolishly, my squad choose to attack this beast, but when it came time to stick it with our pointy sticks, my men just stood in awe of his great big -er- tenticle. After seven of my mermen were killed by his huge -er- tenticle, the rest finally came to their senses and swam back to shore. It is obviously hard to walk with such a tremendous -er- tenticle, so he never caught up with my troops.

Anyway my men were so impressed that they had to tell everyone about it. It really isn't nice to talk about someone's -er- tenticle in public. Those responsible have been sentenced to patrol duty for a month.

[krpeters]

So, I've learned from this game what I already knew -- that if you don't expand rapidly and establish a dominating troop presence early in the game, you're done.

Ermor is officially toast, and since there is no AI option, I guess the next few turns are going to take a while for you all. Unless someone can suggest an entertaining way for me to die? There's no suicide option for my troops

Oh, wait, that's right, Bogus is still active, I can try to kill him, that should be fun.

[otic]

Since I had the privilege of observing (what I assume to be) Ermor's last stand in (118) I might be able to offer a little advice. Keep in mind that this is my first MP. Don't take any of this too seriously.

First of all, Ermor's national units were outnumbered by the enemy's national units. This is probably the result of economic imbalance or past defeats. The disparity in national units could probably have been remedied by stronger expansion.

However, the biggest factor in the battle was not a disparity in national units. I think that your enemy would have won with a force only half the size of yours. In my opinion, the most important lesson is that a powerful army is based on synergy between commanders, nationals, and summons, not on massed national units alone. The real killers were your enemy's commanders and/or summoned troops (or were they freespawn? I'm no expert on _____), which used magic and/or gear to deal severe damage while the national troops were little more than blockers.

Also, where were the undead? When I got the message "_____ has attacked Ermor in Inuptia" I really expected to see a huge number of longdead horsemen on the field. I was quite shocked to see principes instead.

Edit: After reviewing the province graph, I have to conclude that expansion had very little to do with the outcome of the war. Ermor was not very far behind his conqueror in province count until after the war was underway.

[krpeters]

First of all, Ermor's national units were outnumbered by the enemy's national units. This is probably the result of economic imbalance or past defeats. The disparity in national units could probably have been remedied by stronger expansion.

That actually was my smaller army. The larger army was attempting to engage his main force and missed. His main force combined with some lesser forces and stomped my smaller force. But with the loss of 1/3rd of my troops, along with the combination of another player deciding to join in, I'm toast.

My frustration is seeing how completely ineffectual the smaller force was against the larger... had I at least inflicted some casualties, I wouldn't have minded so much. I took a gamble, and lost badly. I could have played defensively, and only engaged when I was certain of numerical superiority... but that inevitably leads to me parking my army on my capital and waiting to be attacked. That's simply no fun.

[Greyjoy]

I also happened to have scouts watching the fight. I think the principes actually inflicted notably more casualties on their opposite numbers than vice versa, but that's not really what the infantry swarm was for - they were mostly there to just keep the principes pinned down while the mages spammed evocations.

And yeah, I too am puzzled by Ermor's troop composition. Puzzled, but not necessarily distraught.

Do remember that nether bolts have a good chance of feebleminding targets in the area. You may not be able to win, but you can certainly annoy one or both of the *ahem* perfidious invaders.

[13lackGu4rd]

MA Ermor is first and foremost an undead nation. yes, you still have your national troops and Principes are still very solid national units, however they alone won't get you anywhere. there's a reason why you have the reanimate option on your priests(even indy priests) use it. especially H3(which you can easily recruit from your capital) as they can summon Longdead Horsemen, you know those guys that come in the level 9 conjuration spell Ghost Riders(just that in this case they come with a Wraith Lord commander, who is the main component of the squad). at this stage in the game MA Ermor should have ~300 Longdead Horsemen waiting in his capital unless he had to use them earlier in battle, but that usually isn't the case as your Principes are very strong units for the early game.

so, without knowing what happened, or even who your enemy is, it just sounds like you play MA Ermor like EA Ermor and completely forgot/ignored its undead capabilities. oh yeah and those S1D1 mages you can recruit anywhere are perfect for Nether Bolt/Dart spamming, which are very strong spells and as mentioned have a good chance of feebleminding its target(great vs enemy mages). other useful things you could have done is skelli spamming, your cap only mages have D2/3 so they can cast Raise Skeletons quite a lot before passing out from fatigue, your recruit everywhere D1 mages can only use the animate skeleton spell unless you forge them a booster(which isn't hard to do for MA Ermor).

heck, I'm surprised to see MA Ermor dying so soon, as its 1 of the strongest nation in MA. but well, it seems like a classic case of not knowing your nation's capabilities and not seeking enough information on them. if only you'd have looked for MA Ermor guides either on this forum or on the wiki you would have seen that MA Ermor is an undead power and found some very nice things to do with them.

but than again, this is a newbie game, and this is 1 thing that you learn by experience. you lost this game, now you learned about MA Ermor and what not to do in future games. learning from your own mistakes is the most powerful method of learning. so keep your head up high and get ready for more games to follow. learn from your mistakes and you'll become a better player, which will allow you to enjoy this wonderful game even more.

[Greyjoy]

Hush you, he's not dead yet.

More seriously, great post.

Edited to add: looking at the graphs, this is the Year of Surprise Attacks. Seriously, check Man out as well. (To be fair, he DID just cast an enchantment that everyone but especially me and the monkeys want out of the way and/or cast by ourselves.)

[Nauquan]

If anyone has any items that will let me get into the water (water breathing rings, barrels of air, etc.) please let me know. I would be willing to trade for them. The squishy fishies are making me feel insecure.

[krpeters]

Oh, just to let you all know, it's official -- I won, you lost.

Bogus is dead! I am the victor!

You can all continue playing your pointless game. I have achieved the secret victory condition and won!

[13lackGu4rd]

which proves your ultimate inexperience. a dead Bogus is a useless Bogus, a charmed Bogus on the other hand would have really helped you, being a tough thug in his own right, or as a very solid addition to your army. the other guys in there aren't too shabby either, you would have greatly benefited from having as many of them as you could in your army.

[Nauquan]

Congrats!

Blackguard: Shhhhh! - you are supposed to be pretending you are a noob in this game.

[Graeme Dice]

R'lyeh's just spamming the hell out of Voice of Tiamat. Between that and his bazillion astral mages, he can sitesearch all 20+ of the map's water provinces for five types of site pretty painlessly.

Everything but blood with his native mages and a single thistle mace actually. Starspawn get death, slave mages get nature.

[Nauquan]

Has Ermor dropped out? Can we set Ermor to AI? Quicker turns and AI is better than stale turns.

[Gandalf Parker]

I show Ermor missing one turn. But if it continues feel free to bring it to my attention.
Id rather get a sub than set him AI though

[cwkjc]

A sub with good morale

[Verjigorm]

I take it since he was complaining earlier, Ermor is pouting in his tower and refusing to submit turns. "Giving up" is worse than turning AI, IMO as it forces everyone to wait for the maximum amount of time before the turn runs.

He needs to be replaced ASAP or turned AI. Has anyone sent him a PM?

[Gandalf Parker]

From the first post....
"Going stale twice in a row without explanation will be cause for being replaced."
Anyone know someone wanting to die an honorable death?

But for the new people let me say this...
usually stales fix themselves quickly. Someone staling slows the game which irritates people. They also flag themselves as an easy kill. Particularly because you dont want to let that nation build up gold and then go AI. If that happens it "fixes" one of the main complaints of AI not using elite units enough and creates an elite-army rush on the nearest neighbor. Stale is one of the best times to attack someone who is next to you.

[otic]

I'm glad that the dom 3 engine occasionally says "**** you, I will not carry out that script" without any explanation. Really keeps the game from getting boring.

[Gandalf Parker]

"Excuse me mage, but did I not tell you the things I expected you to do in
that combat? Do you want to explain WHY you chose to defy me?"
"Oh I see. Gems. Lack of range. Fatigue. Yeah fine. OK I promote you to gem generation."
"Hey Lackey, give that mage a fever fetish."

(spoiler: fever fetish turns HP to fire gems killing the person using it)

[13lackGu4rd]

R'lyeh is willing to trade for water gems, the more the better. offering earth gems at a 1:1 ratio, if you want other gems(pearls, death, nature) than ratio will be a bit lower due to the quality of those gems, also I'll have less of them to trade for your water gems.

[otic]

"Excuse me mage, but did I not tell you the things I expected you to do in
that combat? Do you want to explain WHY you chose to defy me?"
"Oh I see. Gems. Lack of range. Fatigue. Yeah fine. OK I promote you to gem generation."
"Hey Lackey, give that mage a fever fetish."

(spoiler: fever fetish turns HP to fire gems killing the person using it)

Five commanders were tasked with casting an absolutely critical spell with no gem requirement. None of them ever cast the spell or developed any fatigue. They whole battle milling around pointlessly while all of my other ranged attackers did their business. And when I checked the scripts on the survivors they were exactly the same scripts that I used in successful SP simulations.

I either hit a bug or ran into some undocumented bull**** mechanic. Neither one would surprise me too much, but it couldn't have happened at a worse time.

[Nauquan]

Please dont trade water gems with the squishy fishies. Nobody can touch them right now and they are busy clamming and researching. Yes Yes he will kill me. And then clean up the rest of the world.

[Amadamus]

I agree - Embargo on the fish!

As for Ermor, it has no territory left only sieged castles. Turning them to AI now won't be an issue.

[Greyjoy]

...Technically, it has one lonely little valley province as well, but I don't have a problem with needing to squash a couple AI recruits there.

[13lackGu4rd]

you guys would be fools if you listen to Ashdod's propaganda. right now I'm your best chance of stopping the evil giants before they grow too large even for the fishies to handle. fall into his trap and you play right into his ends until he reaches ultimate domination. I'm the alternative. being in the water has its advantages(harder for you guys to invade) but also disadvantages(very hard for me to go onto land) so I'm stuck in my territory, without an ability to move either north or south, so the longer the game progresses I become less and less of a threat to Ashdod and those of you who killed off AI Marignon and now Ermor.

[Nauquan]

Ummm. Why is it hard for you to go on land? All your units are amphibious.

Edit: Almost all

[Jorus]

I also vote to put Ermor on AI.

[cwkjc]

Yes for sure Rlyeh is not a threat, you have just the double of research points and double of gem income and as i noticed you have some ideas about how to play nations effectively, as you say you have big aquatic problems, i propose to organise a collect for you if you need help.

[13lackGu4rd]

Ummm. Why is it hard for you to go on land? All your units are amphibious.

Edit: Almost all

hmmm, take a wild guess.
hint: it has something to do with Ashdod(you).
moreover, the fact that most of my troops are amphibious doesn't mean they excel at above water combat, after all they're meant to fight first and foremost beyond the waves...

so while you're happily expanding and thrashing all opposition I'm sitting there contained in the water, not really able to push against you, but can't leave you roaming free either...

[Greyjoy]

There's always your northern neighbor, heh.

Though as someone who's not Ashdod, I appreciate your efforts to keep him... er, less uncontained.

[freykin]

Hey now, Greyjoy, don't give him ideas! My lawn is all nice and pretty now that he has gotten off of it.

[Greyjoy]

Two down, Man's probably next; though going by the army graph he's pulled some pretty good small victories off.

I wish I had scouts up on the Ashdod/Shinuyama front. That looks pretty interesting.

[Verjigorm]

Man is up against two opponents one being Jotunheim. We will see.

[Nauquan]

I'll send you a replay if you tell me a good way to counter Staffs of Corrosion (acid bolts)

[Verjigorm]

Acid magic is the most unconquerable effect in Dominions. You would need to use spells to supplement armor on the units affected by the acid. Secondly, after being affected by acid, you need to plant your army in a province with significant resources to repair the damage. Any resources not allocated to troop production will be used to repair damaged armor.

There is no spell that can stop acid damage. Units with natural armor are unaffected.

[Nauquan]

Thanks for the info. I haven't had to worry about damaged armor, as I either avoid the battery of acid throwers, or simply die.

[Jorus]

1. Could we go to 36 hours? I am starting to have problems with the 24 hour turn cycle. Although I would strive to stay with it, the complexity of the turns is demanding more and more time. One small time problem (like today!) and I have a stale.

2. I also have to request an extension this coming weekend. I will not be able to make a turn from noon GMT Saturday until midnight (GMT) on Monday. That should be about a 24 hour extension. Thanks.

[Gandalf Parker]

A motion has been made. Comments on the 2 requests?
Going 36 hours?
an extra day on the weekend?

[Nauquan]

I'm fine with #1, better a little slower than a stale turn.

#2: If we approve #1, do we need #2? Either way is fine with me.

Although I find myself counting down the minutes to see what the samarai swords and the squishy fishies have done to me this week.

[13lackGu4rd]

certainly, as I said from the beginning, we should allow for extension when needed, it's standard practice on Llamaserver games, no reason for it not to be standard practice here as well...

[Gandalf Parker]

Actually there are multiple reasons, and it will not be standard practice here. :)
But changing the maximum time for every turn, such as 24 to 36, is simple and can be requested as often as the group wishes.

Remember that Im often in the Chat if anyone wants to discuss something

[Amadamus]

certainly, as I said from the beginning, we should allow for extension when needed, it's standard practice on Llamaserver games, no reason for it not to be standard practice here as well...

lol - check out the boss man...

yes and yes.

[Verjigorm]

Agree on increasing turn length to 36.

[Jorus]

Thanks everybody for the support. I felt like I was on the hot seat every morning at 0830 to get my moves in. I actually did most of the move the night before and then I had problems this morning and couldn't connect = Stale.

Gandelf, this brings up a point perhaps you can think about long term - there should be the possibility of "provisional" orders. These would only be used if no final orders are received by the turn's time deadline. I could have sent in my "provisional" orders last night to avoid a stale, but at the same time had the option to submit final orders by the deadline.
I think many players are hesitant to send in orders until they are 100% complete because they don't want to allow the server to host a new turn prematurally.

[Gandalf Parker]

Thats a problem with the "quickhost" switch which is separate from the "max wait" timer. We can turn off quickhost completely.

There is a provision in the Dom3 switches to set the game on specific hosting times. Such as everyday at midnight, or Mon, Wed, Friday at 2pm. Actually I wish all the dom3 games did that since its much easier on the server, and much easier to do things like extensions. But people dont seem to go for that. If we went to that arrangement then people would have the chance to make all the chances to their orders that they might want up to the final minute.

[Greyjoy]

While I'm fond of quickhosting when it speeds turns up, I can see where you're coming from; and I'm supportive of the 36-hour shift anyway.

[Gandalf Parker]

Nothing is impossible, its a computer. Impossible is just a technical term we use for "yeah I suppose I could do it but I really believe that it would be more time and effort than its worth".

In this case I could setup something that allowed upload to a different port, or by webpage, or by email. And then set up some sort of check routine for IF the timer runs out and IF xxxxxx nation has not uploaded to the primary port and IF they have a provisional turn file THEN copy the provisional file into place before HOSTing.

I take that back. Its impossible. But that was fun. Thanks for the idea. Maybe some game. Some really monstrously large long-running game like using all 93 nation slots on a 1500 province map.

[Nauquan]

Ohhhhh Shiny.

Sign me up for the mega game. Make research very very slow, and make most provinces without recruitable troops. Yum!

[Greyjoy]

That sounds like a noticeably less complicated method than I was visualizing, but then, my programming expertise is limited to some fairly basic screwing around with Java and SQL.

Cool.

[otic]

Nothing is impossible, its a computer. Impossible is just a technical term we use for "yeah I suppose I could do it but I really believe that it would be more time and effort than its worth".

In this case I could setup something that allowed upload to a different port, or by webpage, or by email. And then set up some sort of check routine for IF the timer runs out and IF xxxxxx nation has not uploaded to the primary port and IF they have a provisional turn file THEN copy the provisional file into place before HOSTing.

I take that back. Its impossible. But that was fun. Thanks for the idea. Maybe some game. Some really monstrously large long-running game like using all 93 nation slots on a 1500 province map.

So, you would (in theory) write a script that runs on the dom3minions server? Does that mean you have root-level access? Who owns that server, anyway?

[Verjigorm]

Nothing is impossible, its a computer. Impossible is just a technical term we use for "yeah I suppose I could do it but I really believe that it would be more time and effort than its worth".

In this case I could setup something that allowed upload to a different port, or by webpage, or by email. And then set up some sort of check routine for IF the timer runs out and IF xxxxxx nation has not uploaded to the primary port and IF they have a provisional turn file THEN copy the provisional file into place before HOSTing.

I take that back. Its impossible. But that was fun. Thanks for the idea. Maybe some game. Some really monstrously large long-running game like using all 93 nation slots on a 1500 province map.

Well, "Impossible" in computer terms is defined by the set of problems which a Turing machine cannot solve. There are problems which we know are out of bounds such as the ability of a computer to determine when the number of iterations of a loop are infinite or finite, and some which we don't think are out of bounds, but don't know how to solve yet such as the Painter's Problem.

Theoretical Computer Science is fun. ^_^

[Gandalf Parker]

So, you would (in theory) write a script that runs on the dom3minions server? Does that mean you have root-level access? Who owns that server, anyway?
I own it. That makes it easy to tie in web, email, ftp, etc all into Dom3 games if I want.
http://www.dom3minions.com/ServerInfo.htm

Gandalf Parker
--
I used them, they used me
now I am an ISP.
With a knick-knack paddy-whack
debian linux clone
I am now my /root at /home

[13lackGu4rd]

Verjigorm, you went too far ;) the most basic impossible command for a computer is to divide something by 0, no matter why no matter when. same as in math, after all computers use the mathematical language... than there are the more complicated issues such as the infinite loops that you've mentioned, among some others. oh and while we're at it, computers can't judge situations, they can only make comparisons.

[otic]

Verjigorm, you went too far ;) the most basic impossible command for a computer is to divide something by 0, no matter why no matter when. same as in math, after all computers use the mathematical language... than there are the more complicated issues such as the infinite loops that you've mentioned, among some others. oh and while we're at it, computers can't judge situations, they can only make comparisons.

I like Verjigorm's answer better. The halting problem and the busy beaver problem are counterexamples to "nothing is impossible" that you can work out on paper. Division by zero is something my computer does just fine - when I ask for x/0 it tell me "undefined", which is a good answer. The claim that computers will never be able to render judgments is an expression of pessimism about AI that AFAIK isn't as widely accepted as the halting problem.

[Gandalf Parker]

You people get deep. :)
I just use the "impossible" thing to try and spark people into actually asking for things. No matter whether its a consult job, or something in a forum like this, I have a hard time getting them to ask for "impossible" things. I have a hacker attitude that makes it hard for me to put time in on something that just amounts to lots of "doing" and no creative thinking. Ive turned down paying jobs because they couldnt come up with anything challenging.

[Jorus]

I just sat down to finalize my moves, only to find out that the game has hosted after 24 hours. I thought the 36 hour limit was accepted. Anyhow, I can't afford another stale, I'm battling for my life.

[Gandalf Parker]

It did seem to be accepted.
But by the time I had accepted that, taking it down and putting it back with 36 was abit much.

Now that it has hosted I took it down, changed the timer to 36, and put it back up.

[Jorus]

Well, that was fast.
Anyhow - it's pretty easy for me, as I said before, I cannot afford another stale. You can go back to 24 hours as far as I'm concerned. I won't be making any more moves.
Sorry guys, it was fun while it lasted.

[Gandalf Parker]

Yeah its not every time that I happen to be sitting right at the machine when it hosts in order to stop it and reset the timer. But its nice when it happens that way since people dont see a wrong timer for a few hours then complain because they planned on the time it originally showed. Its best to try and keep the countdown display on the game and in the check webpage to be un-fluctuating

So I guess we will be looking for a sub for Jotunheim which is in a very strong position in the game.

[Jorus]

I posted the opening in the appropriate forum, we'll see.


Perhaps you (Gandelf) should have acknowledged that a mistake had been made and made a rollback (as I requested immediately after the hosting) at the same time you reset the timer. Mistakes happen, and how one handles them is the important thing.

[Gandalf Parker]

??? Im not sure how appropriate it would be for me to acknowledge that you made a mistake. Did you want to request a rollback to the group?

The timers, both in the game and in the webpage, showed correctly the whole time so it wasnt a server error.
The switch to 36 hours for the weekend and after went rather more smoothly than normal I thought since I was able to catch it right at hosting time. I thought it would solve your problem.

I dont see anything about another timeframe for the change being mentioned by me. I will look thru the posts again.

[Greyjoy]

Regardless of the outcome, I at least move that this turn be sufficiently extended to allow for the finding of a substitute. Jotunheim's in too strong a position for me to be comfortable with them going stale or AI; Ermor was one thing, with his armies essentially gone, but Jotunheim still has a very good shot at beating one or both of its opponents.

[13lackGu4rd]

I still don't understand why Jorus is quitting. ok so he made a mistake and staled. big deal... he's still in a strong position, he can recover and get back on track, why throwing all this **** at Gandalf and quitting...?