Troubling Times: Game over, Marverni wins

[Executor]

New Aby player here, direct all future war declaration to me, cheers.

[Grijalva]

The Mighty Ermorian Empire will pay handsomely for magic boosters of any kind.

- Rod, Prophet of Marduke

[Amhazair]

I seem to have a surplus of F and W gems, while lacking S, D, and E. I'd be willing to trade these kinds of gems at 1,2:1 ratio if anyone is intrested. I'd also accept payment in A gems at 1:1.

(Despite having only very partially searched my lands for F and W, while S and E are fully searched :( Ah, well, them's the breaks.)

[Grijalva]

After a long and bloody struggle with Hinom, the Mighty Empire of Ermor is finally on the eve of triumph over the giant menace.

It is a good time for the young empire, its now-elite legions continue to pacify more land every month, and the new faith has taken hold strongly in Gomorrah, once the seat of the mighty giant race.

What better time to announce our new crusade to bring (Ermorian) civilization and culture to the savage borderlands:

The strange tribes of Mictlan are said to eat babies and bathe in blood! Surely this is an afront to the new faith! We thus declare the Mictlan lands that border us to be a protecterate of Ermor...in the name of peace and civilization :).

- Da Senate


Edit:

BTW, Good game Graeme (might as well say it now), you played well and it was another good fight. I think it was unlucky for you that my opening strategy happened to be very well suited to countering giants and thugs, I surely thought I was screwed when I realized who my first neighbor was...but it turns out early mass-smite is a dangerous thing for small, elite armies :)

We do have to stop starting next to each other in every game though since this is like the third time in a row now, heh.

[Amhazair]

I'm looking to buy a rather large number of blood slaves to kickstart a minor blood economy and am willing to pay 13g/slave. If I remember correctly this should be almost twice what it costs bless nations with poor scales to produce them (mage upkeep + lost gold from lowering taxes.) and still close to 30% profit for scale monster builds. Payment might have to be spread over several turns if the supply is high.

[Numahr]

In order to further experiment with the peculiar winds of this World, Caelum is purchasing Air gems, and can pay in Water gems, at a 1,2 / 1 ratio.

[don_Pablo]

Delay please hosting for 24h.:o

Thanks.

[Amhazair]

Delay please hosting for 24h.:o

Thanks.Done!

Though the grumbling part of my personality compels me to add that giving a reason for the dealy is the considerate thing to do, and is appreciated by both your fellow players and the long-suffering game admin. :)

[Eximius Sus]

Grumble Grumble

[Zeldor]

I'm back

[Verjigorm]

http://www.goodtimeretrocafe.com/nes/zelda1/food.jpeg

[Rytek]

Poor Betty. Deserted by all his troops in the end. No where to run. You will have no toes for your collection. If only you had listened to reason. If only your Bandit commanders were not so inept as to be caught sneaking into Helheim territory, thus giving away your plans. The Hangdrotts of Heheim have reserved you a special spot in Tartarus. Do not be too sad. Our Goddess, Tamala, plans on summoning you back from your torment to serve her in your undeath. You will be her personal play thing until she tires of you and sends you back to Tartarus.

[WaterHazard]

Betty is most embarrassed that he had to leave mid-battle after remembering that he had left the oven on. He is even more embarrassed to have gotten lost on the way back and somehow wound up in Tartarus. Reports indicate that he still refuses to ask for directions. The few Dai Onis that remain dedicated to his cause are working out a plan to lead him back, but their lesser Onis keep eating the bread crumbs. Once he's back, I have high hopes that next battle will be different.

[Verjigorm]

Problem: I didn't get the turn file for turn #31. How do I request another copy?

[PriestyMan]

click the game on llamaserver and hit request turn resend.

i did it for you this time btw

[Amhazair]

Problem: I didn't get the turn file for turn #31. How do I request another copy?Happened to me to this turn too for some reason. Seems like Priestyman sorted you out though.

[Zeldor]

Yeah, it happens from time to time.

So, anything interesting happening in the world? I see many wars going on, but no real conquests.

[Amhazair]

Ermor staled last turn, and looks in danger of doing so again, so I added 12h to the timer, hopefully that should do the trick. Anyone with news from him can, as usual, feel free to share.

I'm off to bed now, so goodnight all, fellow players. :)

[Grijalva]

Thanks for the delay Amhazair, I myself didn't realize I was so close to staling again :)

I'll be submitting my turn today and sorry to make everyone wait!

[Zeldor]

Fomoria will buy earth boots, skull of fire and starshine skullcap.

Fomoria also has for sale A and D boosters.

[Rytek]

im getting divorced (kind of unexpected) and I will be moving. Thursday night I wont have internet connection. I probable wont be able to do another turn for at until next thursday (my current turn is in and if we process before Thursday night I can get another one in)

if anyone knows someone who could do a turn or 2 for me that would be appreciated. Sorry for the inconvienince.

[Rytek]

Valerius will be taking over while I am gone. Hopefully it shouldnt be too long.

[Grijalva]

Sorry to hear that Rytek, take it easy and come back soon.

[Valerius]

Hi everyone. Just checking in as Helheim's temp sub. Rytek updated me as to diplomatic agreements and of course I will honor those and follow his guidelines.

[mockingbird]

Hi,

I just wanted to let everyone know that I will be on international travel Oct 2-11. I expect to have excellent internet access and plan to continue to submit my turns as usual. However, there is always the possibility of complications, so I wanted to let you all know in advance just in case.

Best regards,
Mockingbird

[mockingbird]

The nation of Kailasa is about to meet its doom at the hands of Marverni. Though we expect our demise in a matter of but a few months, we do not intend to die easily.

If there are any other nations out there who would like to see Marverni made miserable, your help would be much appreciated.

[Numahr]

I will also be on an international trip from 4/10 to 18/10. Overall it should not have too much impact, but I would like the possibility to submit next turn (36) until Monday 23:00 GMT.

Thanks in advance,

Numahr

[Amhazair]

I would like the possibility to submit next turn (36) until Monday 23:00 GMT.

Done.

[Executor]

Neifelheim, I have to ask if you are using Bogus orders?
Your flying Jarls keep attacking my mages besides larger sized troops, and summons.

[PriestyMan]

pretty sure you can check that yourself using the debug mod. don't ask me how, but i know someone posted how to do it once

[Inindo]

Not sure what bogus orders are but if you are trying to imply that i'm cheating or something I would be more than happy to submit my last couple turns to the GM as an independent party to check since he's nowhere near either of our nations. Otherwise I plan to continue making Abysia's likely eventual victory as miserable and Pyrrhic as possible :P so if anyone wants a piece of them they have already suffered greatly in our cold giant hands!

[Zeldor]

Showing turns to one of major powers would be pretty bad idea :) Some neutral vet, if this case really needs that.

[Finalgenesis]

I think if the jarls in question cast any buff before flying in, it's not bogus orders. I believe the jarls bless themselves before coming in? (Bogus order has to be copied in its entirety, so any buffing would show it's not bogus)

[Executor]

No, I'm not saying you're cheating, I just wouldn't mind someone expaining to me why your Jarls are breaking battlefield rules... sigh
Are they set to attack large, or rearmost?
In any case I can't explain why they ignore PD troops and summons and go straight for the mages.

It's a bit frustrating you know, they should all be dead by now. :p

[Rytek]

Hi all. I am back online. I have asked host for emails to be sent to me again. Diplomacy for Helheim should again be sent to me. I may be a bit slow in response as I get caught up with turns and get moved in.

A big thanks to Valerius for helping me out.

[Amhazair]

Not sure what bogus orders are[...]
Bogus orders are a set of orders that Bogus and his companions have to 'attack enemy mages' (Or commanders? Can't rightly remember.) This order is a carryover from Dom I that does not exist anymore since, as you can imagine, being able to give thugs an order to attack enemy mages would be quite...erm... useful. (Witness my absolute mastery of the art of understatement! How terribly British of me. :))

Now Bogus and (some of?) his companions still have those orders available, and thus, if anyone charms them, they can use them. Not so bad in itself, (though there's even some discusion about this) were it not that these orders can then by virtue of the copy/paste command be given to all your other commanders too. This is generally frowned upon in polite circles. (Hah! understatement again.)

Executor apparently seems to be somewhat puzzled as to why your Jarls managed to allways target his mages, and thought this could be a possible explanation.

I think if the jarls in question cast any buff before flying in, it's not bogus orders. I believe the jarls bless themselves before coming in? (Bogus order has to be copied in its entirety, so any buffing would show it's not bogus)Can anyone confirm this? I haven't played around with Bogus before, so have no idea about it. If so, and if the Jarls are indeed buffing before attacking we can put the entire issue to bed and you can all just skip over the next paragraphs. If not:


First off, to clarify my own stance on the Bogus orders: Personally I believe using them for the companions themselves is fine, but copying them over to other units is indeed a shameful exploit of unintended loopholes in the game code, and as such reserved for the lowest forms of life imaginable, such as, for example, cockroaches, or maybe the French*. It is, in fact, one of the very few possible exploits I would be this unambiguous about.

Having said that, I didn't specify any rules of behaviour in my opening post, so I don't feel I can rightly force anyone to not use those orders upon penalty of banning them from the game or something. (Personally I'm quite easygoing on these matters, liking to keep them between a man and his own conscience, and just dealing if an opponent were to have a looser conscience than mine. First time organizing a game though, so I might change my mind for the next.) If anyone were using those orders though, I would kindly ask them to refrain from doing so again, and if they persisted I might be tempted to organise a big crusade against them to punish them for their reprehensible actions. :)

After all of the above, and now knowing exactly what Bogus' orders are, a simple question for Inindo: Are you, indeed, using those orders for your Jarls. (Possibly not knowing they were frowned upon?)

And Executor: are you willing to take Inindo's word for it and accept that the more likely cause of your troubles is the well-documented, hopelessly incompetent, battlefield placement of your mages, that makes it, in fact, pretty much unavoidable for anyone to attack anyone that's not a mage?** If not, Inindo has already offered to let a 3rd party check his turns. I do agree it's not a good idea for myself to look at them, but undoubtedly I can easily find someone not in the game willing to do so to take away any possible traces of doubt.

* Fake Edit: Ahum... seems I got too carried away by my fabulous Britishness. I hereby want to make clear that I do not hold any grudges agains France, the French in general, any particular French person, or even any French cockroaches. I hereby humbly appologize for any hurt feelings my feeble attempts at humour may have caused, and will try to prevent any repeat of such. I also want to stress that cataloguing the French in this way doesn not grant them the automatic freedom to utilise Bogus' orders at will.

** Having, as far as I can remember, never been in the same game as Executor before, nor having witnessed any of the battles in this one, I have in fact no first hand knowledge of his battlefield-placement skills.

[Amhazair]

The nation of Kailasa is about to meet its doom at the hands of Marverni. Though we expect our demise in a matter of but a few months, we do not intend to die easily.

If there are any other nations out there who would like to see Marverni made miserable, your help would be much appreciated.

Damn, where did all that nasty stuff in your capital come from!??

I really have no idea on how to best deal with that at first sight. I think I'll have to go and buy myself a drawing board or something. But barring the lucky find of a magical drawing board I think you can be pretty confident about holding on to your capital at least one more turn. :(

[Zeldor]

Amahazair:

I think they are banned on all llamaserver games. Anyway, I made a list of banned "tactics" some time ago, which included Bogus orders. And that list is quite common nowadays.

[Inindo]

Ahh I see. Well, to clarify then, no i'm mot using bogus orders, haven't seven seen him this game anyways. I am using regular orders the first of which is a bless/buff which Abysia can surely confirm from probably every battle that we've had so far from every flying jarl raider. If you like, after I am dead I can tell you exactly what different orders I've been using.

[Executor]

Well I don't consider myself incompetent and have heard about battlefield troops placement before sooo I think I'll accredit this to very Very bad luck so far, as I can't find a reasonable explanation for this, no matter.

I just had to ask, I apologize if I offended you Inindo, not my intension.

C'tis, you back stabbing son of a lizard.

[Zeldor]

So, what's interesting in the world?

Maybe let's compile the list of greatest world powers?

[unsorted list]
- Atlantis, after defeating Oceania has massive unimaginably big gem income + recruitable SCs
- Helheim, after owning Yomi with his awesome bless, now put Well of Misery up, to put a claim on D magic
- Ermor, after killing uber Hinnom, does not take a break and is now invading other neighbours
- Marverni rules now all Kailasa, Druids everywhere!

[Amhazair]

Druids everywhere!
MMmmm... Dr00ds...:bow: (<-- Was looking for a Homer-like drool emoticon, but we sadly seem to lack those.)

Unfortunately that list isn't very helpful to me as those are in fact the nations I know something about. What about the east though? someone must be gaining an advantage from all the fighting there, right?

(Kailasa als still holds 80% of the castles he had at the start of his war with me, so while things are definitely going well, I'm not quite done with him yet.)

[Ferrosol]

well Formoria is doing quite well.. and Abysia is not doing too bad.

[Rytek]

For the record Helheim killed Yomi with massed Behemoths/Rigor mortis/curse of stones. My bless had very little to do with the victory.

[Numahr]

Sorry guys, fall asleep while turning on my computer to play my turn, and staled... :doh:

[Amhazair]

- Helheim, [...], now put Well of Misery up, to put a claim on D magicOh, the Irony. :)

The Well seems to be quite popular though. And here I am trying to scrape together the gems to fuel sitesearching. Can't even sustain two Dark Knowledges a turn yet. :(

(Anyone wants to trade me some? I've got tons of juicy water gems for sale. Anyone? Anyone?)

[Zeldor]

I am just poor Fomoria with weak research, so I am surprised no one else wanted to join the fun :P Helheim with his pretender makes sense - he must have used lots of researchers for that though.

Anyway, any other interesting stories? Maybe abour Ermor's rapid expansion and thirst for blood? Anyone planning to stop him? :)

[Grijalva]

ha, Ermor, grand proclamations notwithstanding, paid a heavy price to fight and defeat Hinom so early in the game...so I haven't exactly achieved super-power status...yet. :)

[ghoul31]

Ermor just landed 1,000 troops on my shore. If anyone wants to form an alliance against him, let me know.

[Grijalva]

...and if anyone wants a share of Pangaea's mere 12 provinces, let me know...

[Hadrian_II]

sry for staling again :(

[Amhazair]

Say, just a general question: I've occasionally been extending the turns for short amounts of time for various reasons, mainly someone or other asking for extansions. Do people prefer me to notify them of this in the game thread, or doesn't it really matter much. (This time it's 6 hours on behalf of Zeldor who was waiting for diplomacy replies btw. For larger amounts of time I'll obviously let everyone know straight away too.)

[PriestyMan]

if its just a few hours, no worries

[Executor]

I declared the nation of Abysia utter crap and my good enemy Neifelheim a cheeky bastard.
Like, 3 jotun militia are all it takes to make my mages burn 50 gems in battle?

Neif, seriously? Bane venom charms? You do know neither of us has any income, and have unrest over 100 in half the provinces due to insane raiding?
I haven't recruited a mage in like 7 turns.

[Zeldor]

Sorry about the delay, I have lots on my head recently. I just finished 14h programming streak...

[Inindo]

Lol yeah same here, I think we are both hurting pretty bad by now though you have technically finally taken back all your lands so you are up a little + 1 fort :) if it was any other nation I can honestly say i'd already be rightly dead. Though if it wasn't for all those living fires, I might be able to crush you :)

Heh, just figure I might be able to off some of those pesky mages with it that keep casting living fire, is it working? Not sure what the disease rate is with it though? Is the item considered unsportsmanlike? If so I will remove it, so please let me know.

I know, you are burning gems like CRAZY with those living fires although every time I lose a flying Jarl raider i'm losing a lot of investment too I guess. But yeah that did suck, I think the computer maybe uses HP as the "use gems" marker and maybe cause the giants have higher HP? Can anyone confirm? I was in a game where a single grendel against an army of over 400 and would cause everyone to cast spells.

[Executor]

Heh, no I just never saw anyone use a bane charm ever.
And there'd have to BE mages to get them diseased. Pretty low on those guys. :)

I'm pretty sure I used up about 200 gems on living fire so far, that really sucks, your PD is the suckiest PD after monkey PD,and I think even 1 PD was always enough to make my mages cast living fire.

And I totally agree, you'd off me by now if it weren't for living fire.
And I'd have killed you if I had anything but fire.

Interesting war doe, pretty pointless... Don't think either of us has the forces to turn over the war and kill the other...

[Rytek]

Neifelheim vs Abysia, what a fun match up!

[Zeldor]

Ok, is someone messing up wit hthe game? I got LOTS of battle replay errors this turn.

[mockingbird]

Farewell all! Next turn will likely be my last. It was fun, and I'd like to think that I learned a lot, if perhaps not in time.

'Till we meet again in other games,
Mockingbird

[Zeldor]

Fomoria is selling N gems, taking almost all gems in exchange, ratios vary based on gem type.

[Amhazair]

Thanks for playing Mockingbird.

I do have the impression that you did indeed learn a lot. That defense you put together in your capital was exactly what was needed to stop my druid army dead in its tracks. (Assuming that you had your high-earth Yaksha scripted for a first-turn earthquake on defense despite the damage it would do to your own army. If it had another script I retract my compliment ;) ) Scary enough in fact that, for the first time ever in my Dominions career, I decided to just sit on your fort and go for a dominion kill.

[Executor]

Abysia looking for fire gems, we offer A/N/E/W/S in return, 1.2 : 1 ratio.

[Executor]

A/N/E/S sold out, only W left.

[Executor]

All out of gems of every type. Thanks for shopping at the Abysian market.
Please contact our sales director if one of your shipments goes missing, these Are troubling times after all...

[Verjigorm]

I have been having difficulty getting my turns done with diplomacy, etc, in the allotted time frame. Can we get a permanent 12 hr extension to the turn duration?

[PriestyMan]

well ermor has decided they need a new victim. atlantis can't stop their tide just as pan and hinnom couldn't. seems like ermor is making a move for the game. they have plenty of garrisons, plus 3 caps (well not pangeas quite yet). if they take my 2 it could be gg pretty quick.

[Grijalva]

This is funny...Atlantis and Formoria (two obvious game leaders) are trying to carve up Helhiem, one of the few nations that can stand up to them...fair enough....

but THEN he complains about me not sitting quitely by while my most powerful neighbor (Atlantis) swallows up another nation. He's really upset because he left his arch-mage-pretender on land: a perfect target for assassination spells. This is of course after refusing an NAP3 with me...guess what happened. :)

In fact, three pretenders may have died last turn, Marduke (sigh) perished yet again and Pangeae's may or may not be alive cowering inside his fortress.

Priestyman, no offense, I respect your right to tell your version of the story, but I have only conquered one capitol this whole game and that was after a brutal war in which I was attacked (of course, it was Hinom). So I don't know where you get "another victim" from. Pangaea isn't even trying to fight me, sooooo calling me unstoppable seems a bit premature too.

If I was making a move to win, don't you think I would pick easier targets?

I think its fairly clear that those allied or at peace with Formoria are handing him the game (he has several globals plus artifacts plus recruitable SCs); you might think its fun to win a small war or sit safely behind walls now, but don't be surprised when he's declared the winner.

That being said, whoever wants to fight me until Formoria wins is welcome to. :)

[Zeldor]

I may have some scouts coverage holes, but that is really some poor propaganda :)

Every person with at least some intel and basic math abilities can locate game leaders. And Fomoria does not belong there.

It's obvious that on top we have Ermor [biggest nation in the game, best location], Marverni [MOST of artifacts, including the most powerful ones like forge hammer, chalice, sceptre], great national mages and good diversification already. I'd say Helheim would be 3rd position, but his premature attack counts as a resignation from that spot.

It's obvious for everyone that Helheim is only helping Marverni and Ermor. He knows he cannot win the war - it's also not certain if he can lose it. So the right question is - why is he helping 2 other powers? It's after all Helheim that attacked Fomoria, not the other way around.

So maybe we should start checking who has most provinces? Who has best research? Most gem income? And above all - who has most VPs? But I doubt those are answers that would make Ermor happy :)

[Grijalva]

Couldn't care less if you think its propaganda or not...

I would gladly extend my NAP3s to NAP5s (or more) with my neighbors and make peace with Atlantis if he would only stop helping Formoria win.

Sure, lets "check" who has the most gem income, who has the best research, and all that jazz...oh wait...we CAN't check...you're right Zeldor, I'm not happy with that answer at all :)

You know what we can check? Who has cast and currently has the most globals...sure, globals aren't everything, but they are a darn good indicator of power.

[ghoul31]

and Pangeae's may or may not be alive cowering inside his fortress.



All you do is talk smack , call people names, and lie about your position in the game. I play this game to have fun, not to listen to some ahole act like a jerk in every post.

I'm putting you on ignore

[Executor]

The word on the street around here is that Abysia is stocking up like Hitler to take over the world and is in fact the real master mind, the puppet master, Fomoria, Helheim and Marverni are just his pawns in his diabolic plan to set the world on fire!

[Amhazair]

The word on the street around here is that Abysia is stocking up like Hitler to take over the world and is in fact the real master mind, the puppet master, Fomoria, Helheim and Marverni are just his pawns in his diabolic plan to set the world on fire!This is probably true. Just last turn he managed to wheedle no less than 25 gems out of me in trade for just some simbolic payment in other - obviously far inferior for the purposes of setting the world on fire - gem types.

I also think someone who shall remain anonymous - let's call him Xeldor for ease of reference - should restart his theorycrafting about who has or hasn't which artifacts, 'cause his wild guess is wildly off the mark. (And he quite obviously hasn't seen me holding any of those.) At the same time I am certain that this same certain player has, at the very least, the Aegis and Armor of Virtue in his possesion. And while they might not be the most game-changing, they're certainly very useful. And that is actual information and no theorycrafting.

And - although I'm not quite certain about the eastern borders of Fomoria, and the accompanying statements about his globals are obviously true - I do believe that some nation loosely besed on ancient Rome currently holds roughly twice the territory of the Fomoria he accuses of running away with the game.

I also think I will try to improve my scouting coverage so I won't have to try to sift through some of the wild claims in this thread to try and guess who's dangerous and who isn't. :)

[Amhazair]

I have been having difficulty getting my turns done with diplomacy, etc, in the allotted time frame. Can we get a permanent 12 hr extension to the turn duration?Anyone else is feeling stressed to finish his turns in time?

I had hoped to leave the game running at the current pace a while longer, but at the same time am a firm believer in slowing the timer as needed to accomodate everyone, (within reason) so if you really need those 12 extra hours I'll extend the time regardless of what others say, but doesn't hurt to have a quick show of hands in the meantime.

[Amhazair]

All you do is talk smack , call people names, and lie about your position in the game. I play this game to have fun, not to listen to some ahole act like a jerk in every post.

I'm putting you on ignore

He's obviously talking smack and putting a spin on his position in the game in order to try and gain an advantage - or perhaps just for fun. That's pretty much par for the course in MP games though - And Priestyman, Zeldor, Executor, and yes, myself, have done the same in just these last few posts. He certainly didn't go around insulting anyone in any of his latest posts though. [In this thread at least.]

It's obviously well within your rights to put him on ignore, if you don't enjoy his particular brand of smack-talking, just want to keep things in perspective a bit. No need to feel personally insulted over some spin. (Nor to insult the player in question yourself.)

To both of you: Please try to remain civil and not let disagreements over a previous game spill over to this one. (And yes, that does go both ways: while I didn't see Grijalva insult you, his mention of someone being declared a winner was clearly* in reference to the game in question, and might qualify as a hit below the belt.)

*Clearly to those of us - meaning me - that went through that entire argument to see if something untoward had happened. Boy this thing of being a game admin is a tough job. wonder if I should set up a paypal acount for voluntary contributions. :D

[Amhazair]

And all those posts before even looking at my turn. Damn, I'm a busy man. ;)

[Zeldor]

Crap, you are actually trying to do some good diplo and propaganda :P Of course with graphs off some statements which are not always 100% true can happen here.

Amhazair is totally right - Fomoria is far smaller than Ermor. As is every otehr nation in the game probably. And no other nation has so great position. I have at least 2x more neighbours, none of them noobs whose provs and VPs I could count as mine.

It's up to discussion how strong Marverni is. My intel may be wrong, but he is certainly major power.

We should count Ermor's accusations against Fomoria only as a way to distract world's attention from the obvious fact that Ermor is the strongest one with the best position. And now attacking weaker nation that is no match for him. All that while Helheim makes unreasonable attack against Fomoria.

So, if Ermor is really really so worried about poor Helheim being destroyed, then tell him to sign peace. But oh, that would not be in your interest, right? You prefer him to die, as long as he serves his purpose of making your enemies weaker. You'd love Marverni to join in it too and suffer huge casualties, right? :)

[Herode]

And - although I'm not quite certain about the eastern borders of Fomoria [snip]
Well, I can give you some information on this point, my boy. Let's say it in a few words : Fomoria managed through hard and efficient diplomacy to gather two more nations against his eastern neighbourg, some nation based on ancient Greece. :p

What has been is very fun in this war is that Zeldor also managed to keep for his own realm 100% of the benefit of this war, I mean the capitol of Arcoscephale and 90% of his lands. Neither Ctis nor Niefelheim gained a single province so far. Not that they did not try hard, but some ill fate led them to loose time and troops on other wars they did not expect while Fomoria silently swarmed the lands of Arcoscephale. Now, that's what I call subtle Diplomacy, and I humbly bow behind this emphasized D :D

That's to say that I am of course a bit surprised to see Fomoria eliminating himself of the major powers list. OTOH, nobody can ignore that the Cursed ones are also leading the run with globals and research, not to mention the astonishing density of castles in the lands they control.

As a side note, any help (gems, gold, troops) will be welcome for those willing to help Arco to resist to the Infamous Ones. We are few, but we are fierce. And we have whisky. Hence, we shall not surrender. This is Arrcooooooooooooooo !
:cheers:

[PriestyMan]

Well we defintely have a large concentration of BS slingers in this game don't we? :P

from my lakeside pond i would definitely put ermor firmly in first place, marverni in second, and third place handing in the balance between hel and formoria. As for atlantis, oceania set me back further than i wanted to be, so i am sitting at 4th in my humble opinion.




One more note: ghoul's streak continues..............

[Executor]

Inindo, PM.

Amhazzir, never mind. Inindo, another PM.

[Grijalva]

All you do is talk smack , call people names, and lie about your position in the game. I play this game to have fun, not to listen to some ahole act like a jerk in every post.

I'm putting you on ignore

Mr. Ghoul, I don't know if you can hear me, but thanks for not stooping to my level and calling me names :happy:

Seriously though, no offense was meant before; its a pretty common tactic to try and bait an opponent who has decided to turtle up. I've been acused of cowering inside my forts before too...I even took the bait last time it happened :doh:

This is getting saucy, so much intrigue! I'll be more careful with my words Amhazair, thanks for regulating.

Zeldor, I'm afraid I can only try as you say to keep up with this whirlwind of diplomacy/propaganda, I tip my hat to the master though :) or perhaps I should say "masters" since I was under the impression that you had ruthlessly attacked Helhiem! lol (I may never know the truth, or it may not matter) :o

Regardless, I still support Helhiem (perhaps for more reasons than are appearent here), if he wants to make peace that would be great for the world...if not...

Also, Atlantis and Ermor are at peace once again, as long as he leaves Helhiem alone :angel

[Amhazair]

And - although I'm not quite certain about the eastern borders of Fomoria [snip]
Well, I can give you some information on this point, my boy. [blah, blah, blah] Now that really is a touching story, it almost brought tears to my eyes.

But it really doens't give any information at all about Fomoria's easternmost borders, now does it? :)

[Herode]

Really ? Well... just push your scouts here, and you will learn... nothing more :p

[Verjigorm]

You don't have scrying capability yet for some reason Am?

[Amhazair]

Anyone has seen or heard anything from Ferrosol these past few days? He staled last turn, and looks to do so again despite the 12h I already added to the timer.

I do believe his position is still solid enough, right?

[Executor]

No! He shall forever burn in the eternal Abysian flames! These lands are to be purged from such foul creatures! Only sorrow and pain await those who challenge the fires of Abysia!

[Zeldor]

Maybe we should give him 12h and post for a temp sub? I doubt Ferrosol would just disappear like that.

[Amhazair]

I'll add 6 more hours, and start looking for a sub (temporary or otherwise) if I haven't heard anything by tonight.

Edit: How should I describe their position if it comes to that? At war with Abysia at least, but are they rather weak, average, strong? Little idea to be honest.

[Zeldor]

Average, I'd say. They have pretty much as many provs as after initial expansion [which was very good for them, thanks to pretender]. His mages are good and he has research to back them up.

[Amhazair]

Trumanator has kindly agreed to take over C'tis until Ferrosol turns up again. He's been banned from these forums, so people wantint to contact him for diplomacy and the like best look for him on the dom3mods forums.

[Rytek]

The silver tounged diplomats of Formoria have convinced Ulm to attack Helheim. Sigh.

In any case, Ulm needs some serious military advisors. His army is so horrible it makes me want to cry.

Here is an example:

2 banes on the back rank set to hold X3 attack. They have elemental armor, charoal shields, Shadowbrands, boots of... stone and wait for it, crystal matrix and lucky pendant....

In front of these 2 gems are a bunch of national fodder and some elephants set to attack, along with a few mages buffing with legions of steel.

The army has 1 province to retreat to.

[Zeldor]

Attacking me is never really a good business :)

People are just starting to realise that you are doing everything to help Ermor win this game. Sure, you may say that you want some challenge instead of winning the game. But it's hard to blame other players in the game that they think that your death will give them much better chances of enjoying the game even longer.

[Rytek]

People are just starting to realise that you are doing everything to help Ermor win this game.

The silver tounge of Formoria's ambassadors may convince others of this. I will point out the flaws in that argument.
FACTS:
1)Helheim has NO border with Ermor.
2)Helheim is not aiding Ermor in their war against Pangea in any way.
3)The war between Helheim and Formoria have nothing to do with Ermor in any way as Formoria was not attacking Ermor. Formoria was far too busy ganging up on Arcos.
4)As far as trade partners go, Ermor ranks last in the number of trades Helheim has done with them as compared to others with at least 3 other nations on that list.

Where does the argument: "Ermor is getting too powerfull and is winning the game, lets attack Helheim!!" Make ANY sense but to the Diplomats of Formoria?

Here is what makes sense to me: Formoria has 3 globals, an amazing density of Castles, Elemental royalty including Air and Fire, powerfull Artifacts including Aegis (well, to be fair, not any more), recruitable SC (Helheim has good thugs no doubt but at 15 HP Venhearses and Hangdrotts hardly qualify as SC) and finally, Helheim has borders with Formoria, NOT Ermor.

As to my other neighbors. Diplomacy went much smoother with them.
Synapse:

Helheim to Mictlin :hi there want NAP3?
Mictlin to Hellheim: OK.
Game long peace since. Even a bit of cooperation against Yomi.

Helheim to Marverni : sorry for killing your expansion group at XYZ province. whould you like NAP3?
Marverni to Helheim, Np on killing my group, ok on Nap3.
Later on deal made for (then still neutral)Calimport province which I posted about earlier. As Marverni correctly guessed we were about to attack at same time again.
game long peace since.

Helheim to Formoria: Hi, seems we are neighbors now. Want Nap3?
Formoria to Helheim: We can work out a deal where you give me 6 provinces to secure our borders and we can have game long peace.

me: huh? give him 6 provinces for peace, aint happening:

Helheim to Formoria: negative on me giving you land for peace, how about we leave things the way they are?(Actually, come to think about it, I did offer him 3 provinces)

Formoria to Helheim: unacceptable.
And that is the exact word Formoria's diplomats used. Unacceptable.

So, now Helheim renews its offer of peace in open: Formia cede's to Helheim the 3 provinces I counter offered after our first attack and I will offer Nap3. And again I say "how does it feel to have provinces demanded for peace"?

[Executor]

Diplomacy, and by diplomacy I mean manipulation are a part of Dominions as much as anything else, so anyone who gave or wanted to give lands to Fomoria or anyone else for that matter did so willingly, and there for empowered *that* specific nation to such a position.

If you dislike how some nations rose to power, well, play no diplo games so you won't be bullied, cheated, back stabbed, ganked or pissed how someone stole the game, otherwise play with the hand you've been dealt.
This isn't directed to anyone in specific, I'm just talking generally, this game and others.

And seriously, how can any of you complain about the winning nations?
The winning nation Are in such a position because they lack opposition, opposition = rest of you, and that's the bottom line.

[Numahr]

For the Freedom of War

"Right to wage war on neighbors is a fundamental right. No war, which does not violate any diplomatic agreement, should ever be qualified of being "wrong" or "unjust"; and a Nation waging war should not be accused of doing any evil, beside the simple and brutal act of war, conquest and annihilation. Each Pretender and Nation is responsible for its own fate and has the fundamental right to initiate the wars it desires, for the reasons it sees fit, without being judged for that or having to justify publicly for this choice. The only limitation to the Right of War shall be mutually consented and formally expressed diplomatic agreements."

So, my friends, let us be harmonious and respectful enemies :)

[Zeldor]

Rytek:

Sure, I made an offer to PURCHASE some provinces from you, which you didn't even own at 100%. What's wrong with that?

I never demanded anything from you. You are the one that manipulated facts. You promised to make me a counter-offer that would be acceptable for you. You call "let's have no NAP at all, so I can attack you any turn, probably when you fight someone else" an acceptable one?

You abused your temp sub, you abused your moving time just to gain some time. You planned an attack on me from the beginning, since you won with Yomi. You never intented to sign NAP, your ignoring of most of my messages made it quite obvious. And really, citing divorce and using it just to get some time to prepare attack in computer game? Rather low...

So fact are quite clear:
- Fomoria never demanded any provinces from Helheim
- every message from Fomoria to Helheim is about seeking peace
- Fomoria offered long-term peace, so there won't be any unnecessary bloodshed, that would just make game easier for other powers
- Helheim was inclined to go to war from the beginning
- Helheim convinced Ermor to back them up, I wonder what was the price
- and it's quite obvious Ermor is gaining the most out of it

You know you are not going to win this war. I'm not a noob like Yomi who will just collapse :) And yes, I will use my diplomacy, as you have to be stopped, so there is a chance of stopping Ermor later.

But if you say I tell lies and that my arguments are moot and you don't want Ermor to win... well, I hold no grudges, so I can give you a peace. Assuming you prefer to be alive and with some chances at the game. And I get the strange feeling that you will rather make Ermor win that admit that attacking me was a mistake :)

[Amhazair]

Whoahah! Some heated arguments developed while I was out drinking with some nice coleagues after work. (6 friendly girls and one gay guy, so more or less the best possible company. :) ) Don't feel like processing the information now though, so all have fun spinning up the spin, I'll reply to any diplomatic messages I might have received tomorrow. And don't forget to kiss and make up after the game, right. ;)

Edit: Cause I have to prove I didn't drink too much by (hopefully) spelling correctly in a foreign lenguage.

[Executor]

Whoahah! Some heated arguments developed while I was out drinking with some nice coleagues after work. (6 friendly girls and one gay guy, so more or less the best possible company. :)


Show off :)

[Amhazair]

Whoahah! Some heated arguments developed while I was out drinking with some nice coleagues after work. (6 friendly girls and one gay guy, so more or less the best possible company. :)


Show off :)Yeah, well. Still sitting at home alone tonight though, so not showing off that well I'm afraid. :) G'night all, time for bed.

[Grijalva]

I still don't quite understand why I'm percieved as the biggest threat in the game (or even the biggest nation) right now...

From what I can see of Maverni alone, his empire spans from the Southwest edge of the world at 112, to where he's kicking the hell out of lanka in the vicinity of 165. Now, unless he has the thinnest empire in the history of Dominions, he must have a lot of teritory in between and to the South of those two pronvinces: that's a big empire!

Maverni, no offense, I'm just trying to deflect so much flak that I've been getting by stating the facts as I see them. You or whoever is welcome to present an analysis of how big my empire is (not small, I admit) but I just want people to acknowledge the facts instead of falling for all of this vague speculation.

As for the he-said/he-said that's going on, let's just keep in mind that in every war we have had the same dynamic: everyone claims their enemy is an agressor or threat in some way. :)

[Verjigorm]

God, I love this "graphs off" thing! The propaganda is AMAZING--no one can prove anything! ^_^

[Amhazair]

God, I love this "graphs off" thing! The propaganda is AMAZING--no one can prove anything! ^_^Yeah, that's one of the reasons why I prefer no graphs. :)

[Amhazair]

Now, unless he has the thinnest empire in the history of Dominions...Pritty much this. I'm definitely not small, (Larger than Helheim, but not by very much I think.) but your lands are something else entirely. I would trade positions gladly. You or whoever is welcome to present an analysis of how big my empire is (not small, I admit) As you wish M'lord. :)

That would then be everything on the mainland west and north of #458-#399-#378-#321, (Or, in laymans terms: Half the Anauroch desert and everything west of it.) as well as at least one sea province taken from Atlantis and almost the entire Island group off the mainland that used to be Pangaea's. (Admittedly Pangaea still holds at least 2 of those + 2 more forts, and Atlantis also retains one of the Islands.) That would make for roughly 70'ish provinces? Or 50% more than my 'empire' you felt was so big.

[Zeldor]

I can map whole eastern border of Ermor, if anyone is interested.

[Aethyr]

God, I love this "graphs off" thing! The propaganda is AMAZING--no one can prove anything! ^_^Yeah, that's one of the reasons why I prefer no graphs. :)

Yeah, but the sheer size of this map, and the (ahem) story-telling skill of some nations, takes it to a whole different level. :smirk:

[Grijalva]

This is great, you're responses have been very...telling...but you're still a bit off...I actually counted around 60 provinces for you Amhazair, and who knows how big Zeldor's Formoria is :) *stirs the pot*

[Amhazair]

I'm afraid to say you counted wrong then. Probably assumed some of Caelums lands are owned by me. (Which would be the area south of where you saw me embroiled with Lanka)

[mockingbird]

I had 26 provinces at the height of my nation; Helheim snagged one and Marverni got the rest.

Marverni also had at least one ocean province in the Southwest in addition to all the provinces in the Chult peninsula.

If that helps at all. :)

[Zeldor]

Fomoria had 28 provinces at most, so certainly not as powerful as Marv or Ermor. There was only limited amount of extremely good starts, they went to Sauro, Aby, Ermor and Marv. And some people got much easier neighbours.

[welltimat]

I need a 24h delay before next hosting. I would not be able to provide a turn before.

[Amhazair]

I need a 24h delay before next hosting. I would not be able to provide a turn before.Done.

[Executor]

That one is a deal breaker Cealum, you shall pay for your insolence as shall C'tis, consider war declared.

[Executor]

The Nation of Abysia offers 2.2F gems for 1D gem.
Winged Helmet on sale for 15D gems, best counter-offer will be accepted.

[Numahr]

I guess there is something special about Caelian virgins :angel that all Blood nations neighboring my unfortunate Nation eventually get mad and loose control...

[Executor]

Hear Ye, Hear Ye,
The Great Council of Abysia demands the unconditional surrender of the following nations,
The Cealians, The Fomorian Giants, The Lizards of C'tis and our most honorable enemies, The Giants of Neifelhiem.

A warning to all the nation in the world,
As a sign of subjugation to the Great Abysian Empire every nation in the world is to pay tribute of 1000 gold pieces and 10 gems of each type. All those who oppose the Abysian flames shall soon meet their maker.

Council of Abysia

[Verjigorm]

[B]
The Cealians, The Fomorian Giants, The Lizards of C'tis and our most honorable enemies, The Giants of Neifelhiem.


Wow! That's not very diplomatic. It essentially amounts to asking for 4 nations to attack you at once?

[Rytek]

Watching that fight in the swamp was irritating! How the heck did that King get away with a limp! And he had a curse and got smacked multiple times with a D9 bless at 50% fatigue and he gets away with 1 affliction!!

[Numahr]

I am coming back to my Tajik exile through a long and tiring trip + tight professional constraints: please grant 24h delay.

Thanks for understanding,
Numahr

[Amhazair]

I am coming back to my Tajik exile through a long and tiring trip + tight professional constraints: please grant 24h delay. Damn, bad timing. I'm going on a last minute weekend trip for the bank hollidays with some friends, (Amsterdam, baby!) from friday night till monday night, and had counted on playing my turn before leaving to have no real delays :(

I will of course grant the extension, but that also means the weekend turn will have to be extended. (I'll see if I can play my turn monday evening, but probably will be home way too late, so it'll have to wait till tuesday.

[Hadrian_II]

The great nation has fallen pray to the scavencers of Vanheim who attacked in our back when we where valiantly fighting against sauromatia.

[Aethyr]

GG Hadrian II, you did indeed mount both a valiant defense and effective counter-attack, proving yourself to be a most worthy foe.

[Verjigorm]

I know this was mentioned before, but I'm going to be very busy this weekend, too. Is it possible to pause Friday/Saturday/Sunday?

[Amhazair]

How exactly do you mean that? You want an even longer extension on the current turn than what Numahr asked for? (Currently hosting saturday morning GMT.) Or do you need more time for the next one? (Which I will too.)

[Verjigorm]

Ok, more specifically..

The current turn, #47, will be submitted before the deadline. However, I would prefer not to have to submit any turns before next Monday.

[Amhazair]

Ah, good. You're perfecty safe then, since it's the same for me. (I'm actually only hoping to make monday, but suspecting it'll end up being tuesday instead.)

[Finalgenesis]

It should be known to all that Fomoria have broken the oath of NAP 5 and initiated unannounced attack on our province. Henceforth no agreement need be kept with the treacherous Fomorian god in his current or future incarnations.

Meanwhile, our castle at The Shaar (93) has a very nice site in it, I wonder who will get away with it?

-Lanka

[Amhazair]

I skip town for a few days, and what do I find when I get back? A Burden of Time. Cast by Abysia, out of all people. Must be the shortist lived race in the game.

Remind me not to take vacations anymore till the game is finished.

Anyone organising a dispelling or something like that? I acknowledge I'm probably one of the more affected nations, but plenty of others who'll suffer badly if it stays up more than a few turns. (Yes, I'm looking at you, Ermor.) I have about 40 pearls in stock right now to contribute, as wel as an S7 mage if no one has a pretender beter suited to the task.

I only just got home (Amsterdam was yeah-baby-worthy allright.) and am heading for bed soon, and will play my turn right before deadline, so I won't be able to coordinate anything myself at the moment, but any intrested parties can feel free to contact me.

Oh, and Abysia: If that Burden of Time doesn't disapear VERY fast, I'm comming over to have a talk with the caster. Just so you know.

[Executor]

I AM willing to dispel it myself, I am not unreasonable, say 600 gems of all and any kind and 5000 gold should suffice?

As for my short lived mages and troops, while they did win me the war against Niefelheim they lost due to attrition, severe bane venom charm poisoning, so this has little impact on me.

My lands are already overrun by a few nations so everyone's welcome to try and take a bite, however Marverni, you'll find that my walls and strong and my troops not easily broken.

[Zeldor]

Burder of Time must be dispelled and Fomoria will aid all those that pursue that goal. We are also preparing emergency scenarion, if that method fails. Anyone willing to contribute and aid us in that task, please do so.

[Grijalva]

Sorry for the stale guys, I keep thinking I'm GMT+10 instead of GMT+8, guess its time to stop doing turns under the gun.

Also, Ermor is also in on the BoT-dispel, of course...

[Numahr]

Sorry guys I also staled a 2nd time, although I guess I am the most sorry anyway :( My story here involves Tajik telecom infrastructures... I shall be more careful in the future! :up:

[Amhazair]

Since everyone seems to be appologizing: My apologies for making use of my ultimate powers to add 24h to the timer for no better reason than being awfully tired and mentally incapable of concentrating on my turn. :)

Minor question: does anyone remember exactly what turn Niefelheim went AI? I forgot to edit my awesome OP when it happend, and am way too lazy to go back and check the turns.

[Executor]

I think two turns ago, the same turn as the BoT me thinks.
Anyway, after two turns I guess if there were any dispel attempts they failed.

[Rytek]

I sent a pm, but just covering bases and asking for 6h extension today.

[Amhazair]

I sent a pm, but just covering bases and asking for 6h extension today.Done.

[Zeldor]

So, Ermor is staling again. Makes this game a bit moot, with major nation staling, again.

Let's restart it with CBM 1.7 and much stricter hosting policy :)

[Grijalva]

Beg your pardon? I have no intention of staling and two stales (or even three) total is not exactly a game-breaker anyway. :)

[Zeldor]

Yay! It worked :D

[Finalgenesis]

Alas Lanka falls to Marveni, it is good to know that their druids shall shortly join us in the underworld.

Before our fall, we would like to declare a site, the Ebony circle (30% conj, recruit sorcerer - astral death blood mage) at (151) Chondalwood which will be taken by Marveni this turn. We do so wish they can live long to enjoy its benefit.

[Amhazair]

Makes this game a bit moot, with major nation staling, again.
I am monitoring the stales in this game, and so far things are going well in this department. As you and everyone can see Ermor staled 2 times in the entire games, which is only one time more than you have. (Yes, let's all give ourselves a round of applause people, don't be shy - the lame-*** motivational speaker in me would say.)

The nation whith most stales is C'tis with only 3, (hence the various transfers of power in that nation.) and I'm making sure no one stales two times in a row.

[Amhazair]

We do so wish they can live long[...]So do we, so do we...

Unfortunately, as the involved nations will have noticed, this turns' dispel attempt failed. So a big thank you goes out to everyone who wasted... erm... contributed their gems to the attempt.

[Amhazair]

I got hit by the flu bug, so instead of playing my turn I'll crawl into bed with my security blanket, teddybear*, and a big cup of soup. I'll be staying home from work tomorrow, so I should manage a turn during the day.

Incidentally, how is everyone with the hosting schedule? With various people asking delays for various reasons we hardly ever play a 48h turn anymore, but in itself that's no problem, I'm happy to grant extensions whenever needed, and switching to longer hosting times will just mean people ask for extensions 24h later, that's just the way it works.

So if anyone feels swamped feel free to speak up, otherwise I'll continue going as we have.

Edit: I obviously mean with my hot girlfriend in her skimpy underwear. I sooo do not own a teddybear anymore. ;)

[Zeldor]

Yeah, right.

But well, in dominions world I can believe that we have people able to get into any relations with women :P

I'd rather not extend the schedule - we all want to to end ASAP so we can play it again with CBM 1.7 [or let's restart it now! :P]. And people tend to play turns only when they get reminder email...

[PriestyMan]

And people tend to play turns only when they get reminder email...

*shady look* *glances away*

i never do that

[Executor]

Uh, this just got interesting!
Ermor, you do know that GoH doesn't help against BoT right?

[PriestyMan]

it makes his people feel better. they can be fat and happy for their few years of life.

[Amhazair]

Ermor, you do know that GoH doesn't help against BoT right?Really? I don't know about Ermor, but I certainly didn't know that. considered casting it myself, acutally, but didn't go though with it in the end.

Edit: Also: Cool! An Eater of the Dead. I can't remember ever seeing one before. (In MP that is, I did use one myself once or twice in SP.)

[Verjigorm]

GoH will remove afflictions caused by BoT. It won't stop the instant death effect, I don't think... I'm sure about the afflictions, though--I ran into it while testing various items against BoT.

I like the Eater of the Dead... He's so very interesting in gameplay. He can be stolen, can go rogue, and is quite powerful.

[Numahr]

Speaking about Burden of Time...

I will have to request now a delay of 24 hours, too many job-related constraints until the end of the week.

I would be rather in favor of a permanent extension of delays, that would avoid the "constant rush" feeling. I am sure that if we get +24 hours, then people will not ask as many extensions...

[Zeldor]

I feel that it's better to grant extension on every other 2 turns than just permamently increase it.

Also:
Fomoria is buying fire, earth and air gems! We offer good prices - also forgings are available in exchange. We can forge almost everything!

[Verjigorm]

I will be out of town this weekend and would prefer not to have to submit any turns on Friday, Saturday or Sunday.

The current turn will be submitted, but I would prefer not to submit any further turns until Monday.

[PriestyMan]

I feel that it's better to grant extension on every other 2 turns than just permamently increase it.


+1 for me

[Zeldor]

I could use this extension this time too, so I hope it's happening :)

[Amhazair]

I will have to request now a delay of 24 hours, too many job-related constraints until the end of the week.Done.

I am sure that if we get +24 hours, then people will not ask as many extensions...You'd think so, wouldn't you? Experience however shows that this just isn't true. People just allways wait till the last moment to submit, and if something comes up then, well...

I will be out of town this weekend and would prefer not to have to submit any turns on Friday, Saturday or Sunday.

The current turn will be submitted, but I would prefer not to submit any further turns until Monday.With the 24h added to this turn the next one should only host monday afternoon/evening unless everyone miraculously decides to submit their turns way before deadline, so you should be fine. I'll be keeping an eye out of course.

[Zeldor]

thanks, don't forget about your PMs :)

[Amhazair]

Extended the timer with 2 more hours since Ermor was about to stale. His previous stales and almost stales were all due to just missing the deadline, so that should hopefully be enough.

[Zeldor]

Yeah! Not that I like Ermor, but staling is bad :)

P.S. Fomoria will sell D gems. 1:1 for S, worse ratios for A and E.

[ghoul31]

I told you this would happen. but you guys wouldn't listen to me.

[Amhazair]

Let it go Ghoul. We're talking about a minor delay. If I hadn't caught it he would have staled yes, but the occasional stale, while regratable, isn't the end of the world. And if for some reason a problem does arise, I'll deal with it, as I've done before. There's no need for snide backseat driver commentary.

[Amhazair]

Well, still no news from Ermor, despite several attempts to contact him either by PM or e-mail. It has now been over a week since he last showed signs of life.

Given the importance of the position I'll give him another 24h to show up* and if he doesn't... Well, I'd hate to have to do it, but I will then have to try to find a sub for a large empire in end-game with a long way still to go before game end.


*Yes, that's 24h more than previous disappearance acts have gotten. No that isn't fair to those others, but it's still a different thing to replace your average nation than it is to do so with the game's leader. (Not that either of the previously replaced players had shown up 24h later anyway, mind.)

[PriestyMan]

i think Burden of time killed him just like it killed his mages

[Zeldor]

Well, maybe post for a sub now, just in case? So we won't have to postpone tomorrow for finding a sub...

And yeah, position is good, so I doubt he'd be abandoning it - just smth happening. He is in China after all, they could have suddenly banned shrapnel or gmail or everything.

[Zeldor]

BTW, anyone has A gems for sale?

[Amhazair]

Well, maybe post for a sub now, just in case? So we won't have to postpone tomorrow for finding a sub...
I intentionally meant to wait with sub posting till tomorrow to give him a bit more time.

[Zeldor]

Are we doing anything about Ermor?

2 stales in last turns, under BoT, during war. His staling pretty much means Amhazair wins. That'd be quite lame, esp with him as game admin...

Should we look at IRC for a sub? Wait more? Share Ermor's lands?

[Executor]

Well, to be honest, as I probably caused most of the damage to Ermor I should get his lands. It's only fair.

Marverni, those will take a looooong time to breach my gates...

[Amhazair]

Unfortunately I managed to screw up extending the turn yesterday. (Wrong password, didn't doublecheck, only noticed a few minutes after hosting. Yada, yada...) Luckily with Pangaea not moving last turn the only thing he lost was time, though I admit time is a valuable commodity.

I did PM a couple of people who might be intrested in taking over Ermor, though unfortunately most of the people I have more than superficial contact with on these boards are not intrested in games this large. (Or just plain quit in the year I was away.) So far no intrest though.

I don't frequent IRC myself ,(or even have it installed or would know how to go about it, though I'm sure it's perfectly easy.) so feel free to ask around there if you think you know someone who'd be intrested. I'll trawl through my contacts and see if I can think of someone else to PM.

[Amhazair]

Marverni, those will take a looooong time to breach my gates...Obviously. The real siege force will start arriving soon, don't worry. (And who knows, I might have a cunning plan that involves me not dying from BoT somehow and thus being the last one standing after everyone else succumbs to it.)

[Executor]

Hey! That's my plan, copycat!

[Zeldor]

Amhazair:

It looks like all serious candidates don't have time for late-game or don't like this game at all.

[Numahr]

What about those players who have been eliminated in early game?

[Verjigorm]

I would say take whoever is interested provided they are not an active player in the game. Someone who was eliminated earlier would be a good choice since they have more knowledge of the game than others.

[Zeldor]

I guess we should postpone and look more actively for Ermor's sub?

[Amhazair]

I'm open to suggestions. I PM'd everyone I could think of. Most people don't have time or aren't intrested, allthough there's a couple who haven't yet read their PM's and might still be intrested.

Timer extended of course, letting Ermor stale again would be pretty pointless.

[Zeldor]

I am trying to get every good player on IRC too, but no results so far.

Hard to think about something - but we cannot just let 2nd power disappear, it would make the game a bit pointless then.

[Amhazair]

but we cannot just let 2nd power disappear, it would make the game a bit pointless then.Agreed.

[Zeldor]

I have posted on the other forums, maybe it will work.

[Zeldor]

If Prepo ended we'd have a volunteer. But it may last for few turns. Any ideas? Not even some temp players?

[Amhazair]

Just checking that I understand you correctly: You have found somebody who'd be intrested in taking over Ermor once his current game ends, and are wondering if we could find a temporary sub until that time, is that correct? (And who is the enlightened soul who wants to join our amazing game as soon as he can?)

I can think of a couple of persons who might be intrested in temporary subbing, I'll sound them out.

[Zeldor]

Well, I was talking to Calahan and he said he could probably take over Ermor if Prepo2 was over.

[PriestyMan]

oh no. calahan is too good for that. i'm worried he'll win! we cant have someone good take over!

:P

[Amhazair]

I'll add an "Oh, no!" of my own: Oh, no! And Calahan just was one of the people I thought I could convince to sub temporarily untill the unknown Preponderance player could take over. ;)

I went and checked the Preponderance thread, but from comments there it's quite hard to guess how long the game might still take. (Could be over tomorrow, but could just as easily be weeks from the little I could see.) Do you - as one of the players in the game - have a better estimate? Could be of intrest to potential temporary subs.

[Zeldor]

We are postponing even more then?

Well, hard to say, it's on 72h hosting, it may be <5 turns, but it's still a while.

[Zeldor]

Who have you asked for temp subbing? I have asked plenty of good players on IRC and none of them was approached by you... And I don't have much interest in Ermor being strong, as he is supporting my enemy right now.

Have you tried asking Isokron? Or other people that won games recently?

[Amhazair]

Honestly, since you came up with out potential salvation in the form of a future sub, I haven't asked any good player. Or any player at all really.

I've been really out of it these past days, unexplicably tired. I literally came home from work, ate, and fell asleep where I sat. Then woke up just enough to drag myself to bed and continue to sleep in the place more appropiate for it. (I did work late, admittedly, but not that late, so I really have no explanation.)

I will see what I can do now - late enough, I admit. Truth is though, the players I interacted with, and would love to ask to take over, well, they're mostly just gone. I'm talking guys like Calmon, Evilhomer, Velusion,... those are the people I had nice wars with, and would ask in a heartbeat. The current crop of strong players, like Executor, who's already with us, Calahan, this Isokron guy you mentioned... I heard their names but hadn't exchanged a single (written) word with them before. I can't very well go around PM'ing random people, now can I? That's what the looking for sub post is for. (Yes, I'll be updating that one in a minute.)

So, I'm off now to PM those few people I know that are still around and updating the looking for a sub post.


(If the above sounds like a bunch of whining and self-pity, pay it no mind. It's probably due to me currently feeling quite inadequate as a game-admin, but I'm sure that'll pass in a minute and I'll be back to thinking I'm gods greatest gift to humanity in no time.:up:)

[Zeldor]

I was game admin few times, there is nothing wrong in PMing totally random people when it comes to saving the game and finding a sub :)

[Amhazair]

Well, very good news with a small catch: The esteemed Baalz is willing to take over Ermor at least for now. Small caveat: he's out of town for the weekend, but this means we can get the show on the road again for next week.

I'll be organizing a small goat sacrifice in his honor in my backyard on monday. anyone intrested in donating a goat can feel free to contact me to organize the logistics.

[Zeldor]

Great! So we have whole weekend to finish our turns, try to do some diplo with Baalz etc? :)

[nrasch]

Hi hi all. :)

Did you guys still need a sub for Abysia?

(http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=41304&page=24)

I'd be happy to take over if still needed.

Also, I'm on IRC as 'LeafyBits' if anyone wants to chat about it. :)

Thanks!

[Amhazair]

That's some 25 turns or two months ago I'm afraid. :)

Better luck next time, and thanks for the offer.

[nrasch]

Hee hee, whoops! :)

*blush*

[PriestyMan]

I owe our new sub for ermor an apology. I promise this has been in the works for a long time (as you might imagine) and i just didnt feel like changing the whole course of the game because of one loser staling out. i promise it was planned before he dissapeared

[Baalz]

Oh, its pretty obvious that this is the culmination of many turns of effort and I don't take it personally. I do plan on putting up a hell of a fight if I can manage to live long enough to retool everything...

[Amhazair]

If what I noticed in the few provinces I had a scout in is repeating itself all along the Ermorian coast it does indeed look like Baalz landed straight into a hornet's nest. And here I was promising mediumly new players a comfortable introduction to endgame play if they were to take over. Luckily none of them took me up on it. :D

[yandav]

@ Helheim: your commander in province 262 deserves to be promoted!

[Amhazair]

Added 12 hours on behalf of Zeldor.

[ghoul31]

He's had 2 weeks to enter this turn. How many weeks does he need?

[Amhazair]

That's last turn remember? Last host was 48h ago.

[ghoul31]

oh yea,

:doh:

[Zeldor]

Hmm... llamaserver rejected my turn file, any ideas?

[Amhazair]

Sigh... Looks like it's Agartha's turn to go missing without a trace.

What is it with people randomly disappearing withou a trace this game? I had heard people complain about that before, but can't remember ever seeing it happen once or maaaaybe two times in one game.* (Of course, not being a game admin in those games might mean I just didn't pay much attention.)

I'll go whip up yet another Looking for Sub post in a minute. People with diplomatic ties with Agartha who might have heard something from him since the pause to find an Ermor sub feel free to share. Also, any of his neighbours who can add to what I can tell potential subs are very wellcome to do so. (Agartha is a bit out of my scouting epicenter.)

I'll add a few hours to the timer so I can assess the situation again after getting up tomorrow. (In the first place because of Agartha, but also to be sure Zeldor fixed his turn acceptance issues.)

* A clarification: the surprise here is about the lack of notification. I've seen people leave games all the time, but usually they at least left word, and very often found their own subs too.

[Numahr]

This may be not so relevant anyway due to Abysua disappearing, but I'd like to get a +12 hours delay please (meaning until 00:20 sunday), reason is being on a demanding business trip which includes working tomorrow (study tour at the Turkish Bulgarian border crossing point as a matter of fact).

Thanks for understanding (I know I am kind of subscribed to the small delay requests :angel )

[Amhazair]

No worries. I pretty much expect a small delay every turn. :)

[yandav]

Sigh... Looks like it's Agartha's turn to go missing without a trace.

What is it with people randomly disappearing withou a trace this game? I had heard people complain about that before, but can't remember ever seeing it happen once or maaaaybe two times in one game.* (Of course, not being a game admin in those games might mean I just didn't pay much attention.)

I'll go whip up yet another Looking for Sub post in a minute. People with diplomatic ties with Agartha who might have heard something from him since the pause to find an Ermor sub feel free to share. Also, any of his neighbours who can add to what I can tell potential subs are very wellcome to do so. (Agartha is a bit out of my scouting epicenter.)

I'll add a few hours to the timer so I can assess the situation again after getting up tomorrow. (In the first place because of Agartha, but also to be sure Zeldor fixed his turn acceptance issues.)

* A clarification: the surprise here is about the lack of notification. I've seen people leave games all the time, but usually they at least left word, and very often found their own subs too.
It seems that the Agarthan player disappeared the turn after I attacked him.

[Zeldor]

He has enough forces to put a good fight, so I really doubt it's that.

Maybe TT is just too much for some people? Ermor disappeared, now Agartha, earlier we had prolems with C'tis and Abysia.

And there is no winner soon. Sure, Marv has nice lead, I will be fighting Helheim forever, but I think that VPs are set too high to make it work. Especially with it being EA game.

So maybe it'd be a good idea to call it a draw, wait few weeks and restart the game with CBM 1.8 [less micro] and with more reasonable victory settings [for 40 VPs you need to control like 25-30 provs for 3 turns]. And make it MA or LA [so less crazy nations].

[PriestyMan]

Its the map. Faerun is cursed. its such an awesome map, but its just cursed. no game can ever be succesful on it. :(

[Verjigorm]

This game has been going for fewer turns than smaller games that I have played, and I think has been about average (given the small sample set of MP games I've played since returning to Dominions) in comparison to these other games.

[nrasch]

All: Did you need a sub player for Agartha? If so, please let me know, as I'd be happy to volunteer. :)

[Amhazair]

Its the map. Faerun is cursed. its such an awesome map, but its just cursed. no game can ever be succesful on it. :(Phah! I don't believe in curses. And moreover we'll break the curse too. Not that there is a curse. Or a malediction either.

Anyways, I've had some PM's about subbing for Agartha, and we should have a sub soon. I'm just lacking final confirmation and e-mail address to get things rolling again. Going to bed now though, so it'll have to be tomorrow.

Hah! In your face, stupid curse. Not that I believe in curses, mind you.

Unfortunately it looks like Zeldor is also demotivated due to the unfortunate stale and not very happy with game settings in general, and is also planning to find a - possibly temporary - sub for him. Not that this a sign of any nonexistant curse or anything. Just saying.

Anyways, I just wanted to make sure the people still playing are actually still having fun? I know I am, and I do have the impression others do to, and as long as that's the case I don't mind doing the occasional merry-go-round to find a sub if someone drops out again. Just feels kinda pointless to do so if the people actually in the game allready feel it's a drag of some kind, so just checking is all.

[Zeldor]

I am happy with settings :) I like the map etc. VPs are a bit too high probably, but settings are fine. I just think that this game won't end in reasonable timeframe :)

And yeah, I am just pissed off because of that stale caused by llamaserver problem. It could have happened on any different turn...

[Amhazair]

The good DrPraetorius has agreed to take over Agartha, and will undoubtedly strike fear into the hearts of his opponents. Welcome doctor. :)
VPs are a bit too high probably[...]Probably true, at least if you have/had the purpose of having them be really meaningful. As it is they'll proably only serve to confirm what everyone allready knows, and the game will play out pretty much as a game without VP's would have. Something to remember if I ever organise a game on this map again.

[Numahr]

I am having fun with these settings, and I enjoy this particular feeling of being part of a really huge world, where it is difficult to know exactly what is happening far from you...

[Amhazair]

Just a FYI for those wondering: I turned of quickhost, since Zeldor sent in an incomplete turn just to test if it was accepted this turn, but he hasn't actually played it yet. I'm hoping it won't take him long to sort out his issues. (Either by playing his turn or finding a sub) and will obviously keep pestering him until he does. ;)

[Zeldor]

Ekhem, wtf?

[Amhazair]

I've had 2 more requests for longer hosting times, so seeing the stage of the game and earlier non-insistent mutterings along the same line I've changed hosting to 72h.

[Herode]

Ladies and Gentlemen (mostly gentlemen, I guess...), Arcoscephale has been
defeated by the Unholly Hordes of Fomoria.

Not really a surprise considering the very bad start I had (around 5-6 provinces on t12 due to a poor initial planning). I'm surprised to have managed to survive until now.

Anyway, do not rejoice, O Heathens for I will be back.
See your later on future battlefieds & have fun !

H. from Arco.

[Numahr]

Gods and Nations fall like leaves this fifth Winter of the Ascension Wars. Caelum witnessed the inavoidable annihilation of its last monkey neighbors, while the greatest philosophers of our time are only but a memory.

Arethuse, Ondarus, your deeds will be remembered by the wise!

Saawshyant

[Amhazair]

I've had 2 more requests for longer hosting times, so seeing the stage of the game and earlier non-insistent mutterings along the same line I've changed hosting to 72h.Looks like I managed to extend the timer instead of actually changing hosting time to 72h. ;)

Changed it now though.

[Executor]

Wow, capital down.
Master enslave on turn 1, pretty impressive Marverni.
Heh, after going though all that trouble with the Eater of the Dead, feeding him, GoRing his, etc, he routs... I didn't even get to see him in action.

BTW, nice SC's, quantities too.

[Amhazair]

If I couldn't manage to cast master enslave with Marverni of all nations I would be doing something wrong. (That's a non-empowered, non-capital, non-communioned mage casting it. With some equipment obviously.) But yeah, I'm quite happy with the army I assembled in your lands. Probably just a bit of overkill though. :)

[DrPraetorious]

Oops, just missed the deadline :(.

Doesn't actually matter much - I've seen few positions that I'd really characterize as "hopeless" (maybe to win), but I near despair at accomplishing anything at all under the circumstances in which I find myself.

[Amhazair]

That bad, huh? Guess we know why he upped and left. I have to admit I had very little idea of what was happening up north. Hope you can still wring some fun out of it at least?

[Amhazair]

I briefly became very happy when watching this last turn. Attacking a nice not-yet conquered VP province my guys managed to charm this amazing catch. A Massive Divine mummy with the attendant hit points and F4A4D8 magic! Thinking about all the things I could do with him almost made come in my pants... :banana:

Then he got killed by the rest of the defenders. :(

[Baalz]

Oops, just missed the deadline :(.

Doesn't actually matter much - I've seen few positions that I'd really characterize as "hopeless" (maybe to win), but I near despair at accomplishing anything at all under the circumstances in which I find myself.

Yeah, BoT makes it really hard to recover from a bad position, particularly if your enemies keep the pressure up. I fear I may give the impression that I'm not really doing anything as Ermor disintegrates like a wet tissue - but it's fairly difficult to right the ship when you can't even use your boosters because the turn you recruit guys they tend to come diseased with one turn to live! I've managed to kill/afflict a few of Atlantis' assets while being steamrolled, but a well played brutal assault + crippled defenses and no time to prepare = anybody interested in opposing him should consider Atlantis to have essentially gobbled up Ermor in entirety without many losses.

[Amhazair]

I turneed of quickhost at the request of Rytek who's off on a trip for the hollidays and will have irregular computer/net access.

Also added 8 hours at the request of Zeldor.

[Zeldor]

Will we be using standard MP holiday pause here too? That is, 23.12 - 2.1?

[Amhazair]

Ooh, exiting. Looks like Abysia's pretender is looking to play a game of hide-and-seek (presumably to be followed by whack-a-mole) now that his forts have all fallen. Quite clever really.

What's the traditional phrase for the 'seeker' to call out when he starts looking? In Dutch we say: "He who isn't gone will be seen."
Will we be using standard MP holiday pause here too? That is, 23.12 - 2.1?I hadn't planned to pause the entire period myself, but if you or anyone else want me to I can certainly do so. It certainly is the time of year to be very accomodating with delay requests. :)

[Executor]

Now I think it's only fair that you give me a 3 turns head start to hide before you come out looking for me.

I'll even give you a hint, I've hidden in a duck's egg, inside a hare, which in turn is inside a chest buried under the roots of a mighty oak tree, on an island in the middle of the ocean far far away.

[Zeldor]

Amhazair:

Sure, I'd be happy with break from Dominions for Christmas period. No idea about others though.

[Verjigorm]

I will be able to submit turns all through the holidays but would prefer not to do so between the 23rd and the 25th and from the 31st through the 1st.

[don_Pablo]

Is it possible to postpone hosting (turn60)?
I need 10h to get to the dom3. :(

[Numahr]

In the context of Christmas vacations, I would appreciate a long hosting delay between 25/12 and 31/12. I will be on the road in the Iranian desert with no predictable access to the Internet.

[Amhazair]

Is it possible to postpone hosting (turn60)?
I need 10h to get to the dom3. :(

I'm sorry don_Pablo, I was in bed when you posted this message (and PM'd me.) I had in fact extended the turn timer with 3 hours so it would only host after I got up, because I had promised Helheim to keep en eye on thinks so he didn't stale during his trip, but somehow the turn hosted at the same hour as last time anyway. No idea what happened there, the extension is visisble in the admin log, so it's not like I forgot to press the confirm button or anything. Ooh, exiting. Looks like Abysia's pretender is looking to play a game of hide-and-seek (presumably to be followed by whack-a-mole.)Splat!

Thanks for subbing in Executor, that really helped me/us out. (And no thanks at all for casting BoT, that did NOT help me. ;))

Amhazair:

Sure, I'd be happy with break from Dominions for Christmas period. No idea about others though. In the context of Christmas vacations, I would appreciate a long hosting delay between 25/12 and 31/12. I will be on the road in the Iranian desert with no predictable access to the Internet.
Sure. Timer extended till after the New Year. Happy Hollidays everyone. :)

[Zeldor]

There are some llamaserver glitches recently - turns take way too long to host, so server gets stuck and it may not accept anything.

[Amhazair]

It looks like, despite knowing hosting time for 12 days now, 4 players are still to submit their turn, one of which asked for an extension on the last night before hosting. I'm slightly pissed off about it, since they could comfortably have played their turn before christmas, or between christmas and the new year if now for some reason was not a good time for them. Or, worst case scenario, if they had planned a longer holliday or something, asked for an extension way sooner than now so we all knew where we stood.

They're also collectively screwing over Numahr, who's leaving for a couple of days on the third, and could just have played his next turn before leaving, and the next one after returning, perhaps with a short 12 or 24h extension, and who will now somehow need to come up with a sub for one or two turns with almost no notice.

I've added 12 hours, I would suggest you get your turn done.

With my apologies to those amongst the four who have a fine sense of timing and were going to submit their turn at the last minute without issues.

[Zeldor]

My turn was on time :P Sorry about all that. You are right to write all that - people [myself included] get too lazy when host grants too many extensions.

[Verjigorm]

Sorry, I thought I had submitted my turn before vacation...

[Amhazair]

Thanks to the players involved for submitting their turns relatively shortly after the severe scolding I gave them. ;)

Now if only the game would actually host too...

Edit: Hurray! after sitting and watching it not hosting for 40 minutes, (and god knows how long before I noticed al turns were in.) forcehosting produced immediat results. I is the most awosme leetness personified.

[Baalz]

My turn was on time :P Sorry about all that. You are right to write all that - people [myself included] get too lazy when host grants too many extensions.

Why in the hell do you sign up for games if taking your turns is such a chore? You do know that regardless of the absolute time limit that is enforced, all the players who joined the game because they enjoy playing dominions are waiting on you, right?

[Amhazair]

I've added another 12h at the request of Zeldor, who apparently is struggling with exams this week. He has assured me though that after the next weekend he won't be needing any more extensions for a long, long time...

[Amhazair]

I just noticed that for some unknow reason the next hosting was scheduled for thursday at 07.20h GMT. In other words, a whole week after the last host instead of the 72h it should be. I've moved back the timer by 90h, which leaves hosting time at 13.20h GMT tomorrow. (Sunday) Still 6h later than it should have been.

If anyone had noticed by know that hosting time was later, and was counting on the extra days to do their turn, so they can't finish their turn by tomorrow, (Shame on you! ;)) let me know when you can play your turn. I'll also make sure to check the turn tomorrow before it hosts to make sure no one stales because of a mixup. (But try to play the turn if you can. Other players are waiting to get on with the game.)

[Aethyr]

Amhazair, I must confess that I got a little confused; I must of misread a post from Llama (or message on LLamaserver?), and thought there was a technical problem. I think I'll be OK to get my turn in on time, but I do have a RL issue, so I'd be grateful if you added 4 hours to the timer (don't want to risk a stale). Thanks, and my apologies for slowing things down.

[Amhazair]

No problem at all. I'll add 4 hours, and as I said I'll be monitoring the turn so no one stales due to this.

About the Llamaserver: as far as I know Llama sccidentally screwed it up due to updating his own copy of the game to the new (beta) patch, wich generated all kinds of warning messages, but unless I missed anything nothing is actually wrong. (and since the messages are gone I assume everyithing is fine now.) If anyone knows/heard anything else feel free to speak up. I'll take a look around on the forum just in case.

[Amhazair]

Anyone have heard anything from Zeldor these past few days? (Especially all those players he's been pestering about attacking me ;) ) He staled last turn despite the 12h I added at his request, didn't reply to my PM about it, and now still hasn't submitted a new turn either.

[Zeldor]

I'm back :) I told you I won't be back till Sunday evening. Check your PMs.

[Amhazair]

Oh, I have checked hosting schedule and I will need 24h extension on this or next turn, because of my exams that are on Saturday and Sunday.Allirght then. I have to say this didn't sound to me like you were away, bur rather that you'd be busy. Also, the 24 extra hours, they were over like an hour ago.

But, anyway, I'm glad nothing is wrong.

[Zeldor]

Oh well, it was pretty much the same- I barely had time to do anything on the computer. I thought I'd have a bit more free time tbh.

[Amhazair]

Well, after some discussion it looks like Zeldor doesn't see the point of conintuing and has decided to walk away, so I'll be looking for a sub again. Juuust a little bit of patience again guys, I'm sorry.

[Amhazair]

Edit: Aargh! And I post this after the game hosts because the delay I had put in for the Llamaserver did not go through for some reason.:banghead

Fomoria turned himself AI in that last turn, but he's too important a player to let that happen, so I'll be asking Llamabeast to roll back the turn, but use everyones already submitted turn to restart it, so no one can change his orders after seeing what his opponent(s) do(es).

So wait a bit to play this new turn, you'll receive a new turn file as soon as all this rollback and sub-finding business is done.

[Rytek]

Sigh, Bye Bye S5 Tart. Cry.