ATTN: All players for "P&N on PBW, take 2"

[dumbluck]

Due to several problems due mainly to the inexperience of the game admin (me), I am restarting P&N on PBW. I don't know how this assign player thing works, so the first 11 people who will be accepted to this game are as follows: dumbluck (me), Efran, Deadmeat, Damacon, Rich 04, Hawk, Great Georgious, Diakatana, Verm, Lighthorse, and Combat Squirrel. After 4 days, all remaining open spots will be open to the general public.

There have been a few changes to the setting.

Intel is ON
Racial points will be set at 5000 (to take advantage of intel and crossover techs.)
Score display is OFF (hey, you have your spies back now.)

Anyone interested should sign up after wednesday (nov 21). I will be around for thanksgiving, but understandable, not everyone else will. therefore, I will make the signup deadline to be Mon, Nov. 26.

[ October 28, 2002, 07:16: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

[dumbluck]

This game is now open to the general public. Those that had spaces reserved have had ample time to join up; if they haven't done so by now, it's their own fault if they don't get a spot. Come one, come all, to the first Pirates & Nomads PBW game!

[dumbluck]

Yoo-hoo! Anybody out there? Calling all Pirates! Calling all Nomads! Here's your chance to, you know, actually have an intelligent opponent (or employer, as the case may be!) Here's your chance to try out SJ's excellent mod against other people! Where is this flood of applicants I was expecting?

Oh, yeah, and just to make this official:

*BUMP*

Your chance to play P&N is slipping away! Join up, if you dare!

Oh and off topic, how in the world did I earn a 5 star rating?!?! I haven't DONE anything!!!

[Skulky]

when do we need our .emp files in? my email is not workign otherwise i would have asked you. also, what are good tech for P&N i dont' play it much and have no idea for an .emp.

thanks

[Suicide Junkie]

EDIT: Important: there is a new bugfix out for P&N. (Thanks to CombatSquirrel) I've uploaded it to PBW already, and you can get it either there, or from my Sig.

My favorite is ALL the racial techs, (but don't try it against humans, unless you're a smooth talker and are confident that people will protect you in exchange for your expensive superships.

Priority hint:
Don't skimp on radioactives production! Powerful ships can require more rads than minerals. Shield and shield-busting nukes will rapidly soak up your supply of Rads.
In general, Rads & Minerals are balanced; think about building monoliths.
I suspect a lot of players might scrap a miner on their homeworld during turn one, just to build a second rad extractor.

Propulsion experts is probably a must. It saves you 7% of your hull space in the early game (due to reduced engine requirements). By the time Quantum engines show up, that has dropped to 3.5%, but it can still be significant, especially on medium to big hulls.

A similar effect is with "Expanded Automation". Everything requires one fewer Lifesupport/Crewquarters. This means everything from ES to DS can get by with just the crew on the bridge! +20KT space per ship, (+7% of DS, +14% on ES). If you plan to use lots of small ships, this is the trait to get.

Want even more? Tiny Race is cheap, and reduces C&C size by 30%, saving an ES upto 6%, CR upto 3%

If you like units, choose "Big Thinkers", for the +25% size boost of all units. (Platforms, fighters, troops, mines, satellites)

Organic + Crystalline for the combined-ability armor http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Living ships, is good: you get less mineral, and more organic costs in your hulls (speeding up construction), plus crippled ships can heal on their own without needing a dedicated repair vehicle. It is pricey, though.

Things to watch out for:
- Psychic + Temporal has a sensor that rivals the Religious Talisman! (and is available quite early, with the first Version (+80% to hit) available at level one of each of the racial techs).
- Shield-buster CSMs, which do Double Damage to shields (half-damage to armor & internals).
- Tough armor-ships. Armor & shields cost roughly the same to research for the defensive value. But, Armor can be boosted +40% for a +100% cost.
- The strongest shields are not always Phased! Normals provide more hitpoints per research point, and the top tech Heavies are normal.
- Planetary shields are strong enough to be worth-while. At max tech + ruins, you get 75,000 phased shieldpoints (max tech, no ruins gives 50,000 Phased)
- Nomadic ships with 1% maintenance! If they've got an ally funding them, you could be facing a fleet not seen since SE4 v1.35 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
- Pirates start with ship capture technology and mobile shipyards, but they're not much of a threat later on.
- Beware the battlemoons! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Each will take at least 2 years to even begin a retroseries, but depending on the quality of the shipyard, there could be a doomsday weapon headed your way in 3 or 4 turns.


Good luck!

[ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

[dumbluck]

Now aren't you glad he's not playing!! He probably knows every trick there is to this mod!!!

And about that new Version, SJ, what exactly did you change? For instance, if you just changed data files, then all I need to do is update the data folder and I won't need to change all the other folders, is that right?

As to a startup deadline... well, there isn't one, really. I'd like to get started by January, though.

[ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

[ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: dumbluck ]</p>

[Suicide Junkie]

Yes. Components.txt in particular, but do the whole data folder just to be safe.

[dumbluck]

Ok. This is your very Last chance to join up. Game starts as soon as all emp files are in, or early january, whichever comes first!

edit:there have been a few recent changes (a new map, for one), so check it out!

[ 21 December 2001: Message edited by: dumbluck ]</p>

[Suicide Junkie]

P&N v2.4d has been uploaded to PBW. All .EMP files remain valid.

P&N V2.4d
- Edit: Toned down the abilities of the Temporal+Psychic combat sensor: now 15KT, and +85% max.
- Edit: Rewrote component mount descriptions for accuracy.
- Edit: Adjusted stationary vehicle mounts for increased range.
- Edit: Black hole weapons now do armor-skipping rather than Quad2Shields
- Edit: Rewrote descriptions of BlackHole SM devices.
- Edit: Mini-shield III fixed, and now provides regeneration ability

[dumbluck]

Question:

Did you put the multiple shipyards in, or is that dependant on Gold Version code changes?

And speaking of the multiple shipyards, did you put in temporal Versions of them?

[dumbluck]

Ok, to all you aspiring Pirates in my game.... Well, ok, to all of you in my game, not just the pirates. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif I was reading thru a message SJ sent me a while back, and I realized that I never made sure that we don't have any dual races out there. I'm sure you all know this, but just to make sure... There are three mutually exclusive racial traits that everyone is required to choose one from: Pirates, Nomads, and Normal. Everyone most choose one and ONLY one of those traits when creating their .emp files. If you messed up and took more or less than one, it's not the end of the world. But you will have to make a new emp file and send it to me. If you don't have my email addy, post here and I will send it to you in a private message.

Ok, any questions?

[Suicide Junkie]

I haven't put the multiple spaceyards in yet.
Though I have been working on P&N v2.5, with JimBob's grav manip racial tech, and some SM tweaks.

If you guys want to help test it, we could probably get it debugged by the time PBW comes back up...

[Skulky]

I would like to help test it out, it seems that they are a little overpowered to be able to put upwards of say 25 on one planet, think, battlemoons each turn!!!!! maybe more like limited to 5 per planet or only allowed on small or tiny planets or only on bases.... i dunno, just email me at speedyhair@pacbell.net

[Suicide Junkie]

The problem is, there is no number between 1 and infinity http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif , and the method does not work on vehicles, only planets.

What I think I may do is to make the expansion yards much less efficient, say 25% production.
Then, a tiny world with 5 spaceyards gets only 200%, and Huge breathables get 700%.
A bit more fair wouldn't you say?

In any case, the multi-spaceyards and the fancy cloaking system will have to be a part of a Humans-only Version of P&N.

Just-in-case Bumpity Quote:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Dumbluck:There are three mutually exclusive racial traits that everyone is required to choose one from: Pirates, Nomads, and Normal. Everyone most choose one and ONLY one of those traits when creating their .emp files. If you messed up and took more or less than one, it's not the end of the world. But you will have to make a new emp file<hr></blockquote>

[Skulky]

yes, at this point if you could build a ringworld and put all 50 of the facilites as spaceyard deals you've won anyway so its not like a big problem.

[Suicide Junkie]

Bumpity.

Do we upgrade to 2.5 or go ahead? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

Go with the upgrade.

[dumbluck]

*sigh* Just when I thought that everything was going to go smoothly,...

We need at least one replacement player for this game. Technically, we need 2, but one of the empires is about to be crushed under the awesome might (yea, right) of the juggarnaut that is my military. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Those poor UCE souls....

Anyway, First come, first served.

[Fyron]

Can't stand to make a new thread? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Captain Kwok]

I think the game is dying!

[dumbluck]

IF: Didn't you know that recycling is good for the environment? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Kwok: It's not dying, I'm just kinda busy (damn these RW interferences with my gameing time!), so I'm a bit slow in fixing the problem. We're almost thru it, though, so just hang tough. I've got faith in you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Baron Grazic]

Drats too slow, I'd be interested if another place opens up. Give me a yell via email if it does - wayne@abl.com.au.

Can't say becoming the leader of the UCE and listening to their screams sounds inticing however http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

(Edit - Oops - no email in Profile)

[ September 16, 2002, 03:26: Message edited by: Baron Grazic ]

[dumbluck]

Baron, here's your chance. Another http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif spot has opened up. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

What I know about this empire: they are fighting a war with the Vorlons. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif From what I gather, the Vorlons are giving them quite the tough battle.

EDIT: My keyboard can't spell!

[ September 20, 2002, 12:47: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

[dumbluck]

Well, well, well. The UCE may just have life left in them yet. I'm not ashamed to admit it, the AI caught me pretty unawares. (It utilized tech I didn't know that they had researched http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif ) Suddenly, their homeworld is no longer blockaded, and I'm not yet prepped to go on the offensive with them, being pre-occupied elsewhere.

So, if you want a real challenge, see if you can bring this empire back from the dead. I'd tell you that I'd help, but the UCE and Rage ... well, they had a bit of a falling out a while back... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif But who knows, if there is a significant regime change, perhaps the Rage would be willing to reconsider. Perhaps. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[dumbluck]

Budda-BUMP

[dumbluck]

What, no one wants to take this opportunity to show me all the mistakes I'm making in this game? No one wants to try to whip my [explicative deleted]? I'm kinda disappointed; the way things in the RW are going, I was starting to think that most people wouldn't need to be asked twice. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Come on, the UCE need ya! You know you want to!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ October 10, 2002, 10:48: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

[Suicide Junkie]

The UCE homeworld has recently been liberated from the Rage blockade. With a homeworld and two bases in orbit, plus a Syndicate membership, they stand a good chance of survival!

[Captain Kwok]

This game has certainly come to a crawl...I wish it'd speed up a tad...

[Suicide Junkie]

Somebody needs to prod the slow people http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Captain Kwok]

Technically speaking, it's really just the one player...

[dumbluck]

Oh, so that was your doing, SJ? I suspected as much, what with it happening just as soon as your ship came into orbit. . . http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

EDIT: And I thought that you were my friend... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 12, 2002, 08:04: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

[dumbluck]

Woo-hoo! Another turn!!!

[dumbluck]

Yea, I know. You're all scared of my expert skilz http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif ; that's why no one will take on the UCE, right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[TerranC]

No. It's your name that scares us. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

Oh, so that was your doing, SJ? I suspected as much, what with it happening just as soon as your ship came into orbit...<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The 'Ol Sergeant must have delivered quite a motivational speech to the planet's citizens http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[dumbluck]

Well, now it seems that it's my turn to hold up the game (along with all my other games). Don't ya hate it when the RW interferes with your gaming? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif I should be caught up on all my game turns by the end of the weekend, though. I hope...

[dumbluck]

What could possibly be scary about my name???

[geoschmo]

Baron, if the correct empire password has been given to PBW we can get that for you.

Geoschmo

[Baron Grazic]

Thanks Geo, but I just remembered the correct spelling for the password.

Anyone know if the "Tien Hegemony" is an actually Sci-Fi race or just something someone made up?

Next turns up...

[Suicide Junkie]

As far as I know, the Tien are just made up.
However there is a fair number of Roleplay Posts which should give you an idea of what they are about.

(See the "And So It Begins" thread)

[Baron Grazic]

Sorry, my turn to hold the game up.

I've bloody forgotten the password, but it is stored within the Work Email system but the work VPN is down. I would complain to the person who looks after the VPN, but that's me.
I'm back from holidays on Monday (Oz time) and will give the game a High Priority.

What could possibly be scary about my name??? <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haven't you heard that Dumb Luck beats Skill anyday and I'm guessing they are afraid of the combination of both? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Skulky]

Yes i have come back, when i heard that my empire, left in the early stages of its life because of the RW i returned to help, however, i dont' get what's causing the APLU thing and this whole turn 64/62 controversy.

[ October 18, 2002, 21:22: Message edited by: Skulky ]

[dumbluck]

And the UCE are leaderless no more! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif Their founder has returned from beyond the grave! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Welcome back, Chocolatefro.

[Fyron]

Some people didn't pay attention and the turn processed without them when Dumbluck set the game back to auto turns from ALPU.

[dumbluck]

However, the game was turned back to After Last Player Upload (ALPU) shortly after that, mainly because of all the problems the AI can cause with even just 1 missed turn.

[dumbluck]

Everyone needs to check the game forum on PBW. There is an important discussion going on there, and everyone needs to be informed of the circumstanses.

[dumbluck]

That goes for you, too, Mardik. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

4 Posts in a row Dumbluck. Sheesh. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I guess this is supposed to be a BUMP.

[Rich04]

Mardik is unable to reply. Having to relocate across the country. He was hoping to have till the end of October before he would have to leave any games he was in. However events transpired that forced an early departure. He didn't even get a chance to post goodbye in any forums. I doubt any of us will hear from him before next year when he will have access to his computer again.

I have read the game forum. So here is my takke.

In that Surrender was never disabled I would say allow his wishes. Duke Fleed pretty much recounted what I knew of things before my departure from the game.

Hell I would have turned my empire over to Darklight if I hadn't been so pissed off by events and hit the withdraw button.

Sometimes a smaller empire will latch on to a larger one that they would never be able to beat. Agreements may be made between the players that if one (player) leaves his empire will surrender to the larger entity. This is far preferable than just being crushed outright. If the cards are played right the smaller empire might even share a joint win with the larger.

Now I am not advocating surrender to some third party just because one is losing to another empire.

In this case it was just a different form of conquest. One accomplished diplomatically.

From what I understand Darklight and Ydath were allies for most of the game. Ydath was not losing a war with anyone. Both were sharing resources and tech with each other. Finally a merger happened.

To say that the only way an empire can surrender is when it is beaten to death by a larger opponent and then only to that empire is childish and narrow minded. Furthermore it isn't even without precedence. Many a time a larger empire can simply demand surrender of an empire while not at war in single player. If you are powerful enough it just surrenders. I guess some would say that must be a 'bug' and needs to be fixed.

No one should enforce thier way as the 'one true way' to play SE4. Unexpected events are what make the game exciting.

[Captain Kwok]

I agree for the most part with Rich04. Since they have been allies from the beginning and are sharing all resources and technology already - it's not going to make a difference to the game. Had this game not been roleplay...then I might be upset.

Plus, there's always:

You have become a threat to the other sentient races

[Fyron]

To say that the only way an empire can surrender is when it is beaten to death by a larger opponent and then only to that empire is childish and narrow minded. Furthermore it isn't even without precedence. Many a time a larger empire can simply demand surrender of an empire while not at war in single player. If you are powerful enough it just surrenders. I guess some would say that must be a 'bug' and needs to be fixed.

No one should enforce thier way as the 'one true way' to play SE4.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I resent those remarks. I am in no way "childish" or "narrow minded," and name-calling does not help your arguement at all. Please refrain from such actions in the future.

Surrender was only not disabled because the game host forgot to tick that checkmark when starting the game. So, their actions are actually illegal within the rules of the game in question.

Aside from that, surrender is not a well-implemented feature. I would not want an empire that is being defeated to surrender to anyone because of this. It is too all-encompassing. Just because the emperor says "we surrender" does not mean that everything and everyone immediately joins the enemy without a fight or any resistance at all.

A "merger" is a gross violation of the intent of the surrender option, and should never be allowed unless the house rules of the game specifically allow for it.

What the AIs do in single-player games has absolutely no bearing upon what human players do. That is not a valid arguement.

[dumbluck]

Great. ANOTHER player I've upset. Rich04, I apologize for whatever it was that upset you so to leave the game. At this rate, I'm not gonna bother ever starting another game; there won't be anyone left not angry enough to boycott it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

As to the surrender issue: I never claimed to be a dictator. Even with Mardik's vote (which I assume would be in favor of the surrender), the vote was still against the surrender. (And I didn't vote. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif ) Not to mention the fact that it should have been disabled (again, by player vote), it's just that the damned inept game host forgot to mark that checkbox when he started the game....

edit: I know I said I would take action tonite, but it's late and I'm tired. And I did have one thing to discuss with Mardik first (he actually replied, finally; despite his computer problems).

So, Mardik, if you read this before I send you an email tomarrow, do you still want to play in this game? I don't know your computer situation, but you obviously have access to email. The only reason I was going to kick you was because I thought that you had left the game on your own, and I needed to make room for your replacement player. If you're still in the game, then there's no need for the replacement player....

[ November 02, 2002, 12:04: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

[Rich04]

"I resent those remarks. I am in no way "childish" or "narrow minded," and name-calling does not help your arguement at all. Please refrain from such actions in the future."-Imperator Fyron

You know I mentioned no names in my post. There are definately two camps when it comes to surrender.

It is however interesting that you admitted to being 'childish' and 'narrow minded'. At least that is a good sign. In time you will mature.

It is still amazing that you continue saying 'your way of playing SE4' is the only correct way. Who made you God? Get over it.

[Fyron]

Again, you only serve to weaken your arguement. The only way that you would know about what is going on in the game is if someone were to tell you what is going on. Since I am the only one actively arguing against the "merger", those petty insults would have to have been directed at me. The only person acting immature here is you. I have not said anything at all immature.

"My way" of playing SE4- as you so fallaciously put it- is how probably 95% of the people that I have played the game view surrender. In fact, it is how surrender was designed. I direct you to Aaron Hall's words on surrender from the Online SE4 manual:

Surrender
When all is lost, and your empire cannot possibly go on, you can always surrender. You surrender to another empire by sending them a Surrender message. Once this message is sent, your entire empire will become controlled by that other player. Once you do this, your game will be over.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nowhere in there does it say that surrender is to be used as a "merger" of two allied empires. It says that the option is to be used when your empire is nearly dead, and it implies that it is to be done to the empire that is doing the destroying. So, if surrender is to be used in such a contradictory manner, it must be set up in the house rules of the game to be done so. Otherwise, the default rule is that surrender cannot be used for a "merger."

I plan to ignore any further insulting remarks made in this thread. I ask that a moderator lock this thread if any more are made (or, at the least, remove the offending Posts). Thanks.

[Rich04]

Again you are incorrect. Anyone can go over to the forum for the game and read what is going on. Every once and a while I check the forum.

Unfortunately one cannot post to the forum or I would have done so there.

I had info concerning Mardik that I could pass on to Dumbluck. Alas you reared your head again and acted like an idiot.

Once again I mentioned no names. You felt insulted. Well if the shoe fits. Then you must have been behaving badly.

"Since I am the only one actively arguing against the "merger", those petty insults would have to have been directed at me. The only person acting immature here is you. I have not said anything at all immature."

And that means 95% are in agreement with you. Pretty funny math.

The proper term would be whining. Anybody can go check the forum themselves.

Nor was the statement directed at 'you'.

But it must be nice to be in the center of your universe.

It is not the first time I have had a run in with you Imperator Fyron. God please spare me from it again.

Oh yeah thats you. Time to become an athiest.

[ November 02, 2002, 22:30: Message edited by: Rich04 ]

[Fyron]

This is getting out of hand. Will a moderator please lock this thread before Rich04 flames me any more?

[geoschmo]

Ok, both of you need to calm down. You aren't getting anywhere, either one of you. Obviously you both disagree and you aren't going to convince each other. Just leave it at that. I am locking this thread down.

Geoschmo

[Captain Kwok]

Hey Dumbluck, don't be so hard on yourself - the game problems are not your fault at all. I think they can be directed towards a certain individual responsible for about 80% of the mishaps.

The hosting is fine.

[ November 02, 2002, 12:23: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]