Cursed be Iron, a game that ran over a year: winner OSSA, Pangaea, turn 125

[Anaconda]

What is going to follow is a FMGE (full multiplayer gaming experience) for nub/intermediate players. We want to get going fast so please prepare and cancel your doctor appointments, weddings, funerals and if your in military take a leave - if not granted take a leave without absence!

So, join if you feel like you would fit to the world - and are willing to play without switching to the AI even if you are suffering some punishment.




SETUP

Middle Age
Mod: latest CBM, streamers and standards
Renaming: on
HoF: 15
Cheat prevention: on
Other: default
(We might want to consider putting magic site -lvl up a little?)

WINNER:

the last man standing, or until agreed by all survivors.

TURN INTERVAL:

Fast paced
~ 0-25 -> 36H
~ 25-40 -> 48H
~ and up from there!
+ QH, of course

MAP:

Realm of Roaring Rhinos FIX 1
http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=440&st=0&#last

DIPLOMACY:

Macchiavellian, but if you make treaties public, expect breaking them to have global consequences.

Something else:

RPG elements, such as stories, impersonating and what ever you come up with are very wellcome

House Rule: NO ETTINS FROM SITES!

Link to the GAME on Llama:

http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Cursed_be_Iron

Link to the Streamers and Standards:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39989




Winner turn 125: Pangaea ~ Ossa (/Bullock)

Fought untill the end:

Pythium ~ Krpeters (/Immaculate)
Jotun ~ Momfreek

Dropped:

Agartha ~ AI (Musse)
Ulm ~ AI (Anaconda)
Tien Chi ~ AI (Hylobius)
Marignon ~ Whollaborg/Timpaman (GONE)
Shinuyama ~ RonD (GONE)
Machaka ~ Morla (GONE)
Vanheim ~ green cat (GONE)
Bandar Log ~ ghoul31 (GONE)
Abysia ~ Dojango (GONE)

[RonD]

Shinuyama

[Morla]

if it´s possible, sign me in as Machaka.

[green cat]

I'd like to play Vanheim

[Immaculate]

Any chance the first turns can be 36 hours instead of 24h? I can play every day but i often have 16-18hour shifts and will miss 24h deadlines.

If so i would prefer Shinuyama as a first choice but would take Pythium.

Also, plain of rusty nails, version 4 please.

[Ephraim]

I'd like to try out Atlantis.

[ghoul31]

bandar log

[dojango]

I'd like to try Abyssia

[Hylobius]

I'll take T'ien Ch'i please.

[Anaconda]

Great many thanks for joining us, and please feel like home!

[Anaconda]

As requested, we will make the initial turn interval 36H+QH.

I understood there might be a site where one can recruit Wild Ettins, we might want to forbid this as a house rule?

Then the map discussion:

Plain of Rusty Nails could work, any other votes? You can propose any map you think appropriate.

I would also like to consider suitability of maps called
-Land of milk and honey
-Land of Legends
-Galadia
-Cradle of Dominions


We might want to consider if we want wrap or non-wrap. Wrapped map offers more dilpomatic challenge and no1 would be dropped in the middle as a target practise for others nations.

[Anaconda]

and btw, now that nations are out feel free to prepare the characters. I am gonna open the game tomorrow latest.

[green cat]

You might want to consider getting another water nation. Giving Atlantis a free run until late game and pretty much guaranteed 20+ nearly uncontestable provinces might be an uneven setup.

[vargr]

I'm not sure what was the experience level sought after. I feel the 'intermediate' games at this forum be in my comfort zone (finished abt 9 games with 1 win). If this is ok, and you need another water nation, then sign me up as R'lyeh.

[Immaculate]

I'm sick of land of legends- the starting spots can really ruin you if you are dependent upon resources.

Cradle of dominions i've done already. Never tried Galadia...

Rusty Nails i've played about 10 turns on and i really liked it- And i am pretty sure it wraps which is a nice difference for me because my other games are both land of legends (limited military fronts). So yeah, thats my vote.

And yeah, no free Ettins.

Looking forward to the pomp, dazzle, frippery, splash, pedantry, splendor and fanfare of a proud and noble "Hydra Parade"! (have you bought your tickets? no refunds in case of 'allergy' to hydra elegance or misbehaving hydras eating children- i'm sorry- thats the Pythium senate's official policy)

[Morla]

My vote goes to Plain of Rusty nails.

No free ettins.

[Anaconda]

Distribution of provinces in PoRNv4 is what worries me. Any1 got excat numbers?

And sure, I am up to get another water nation if theres liebenraum. One ater nation wont be a problem, other only need to adjust for him. For example agartha can enter water and buy water PD, and so on...

[Immaculate]

143 land + 12 sea (source: http://www.llamaserver.net/mapModBrowser.cgi)

http://www.llamaserver.net/mapThumbs/planeofrustynails.png
(edit: note that due to wrapping those corners are actually one big lake)

[Anaconda]

Thats not good to two water...

Any opposition for Crafle of Dom, it has plenty of room for 2 water nations?

[Bullock]

I think i will get the last slot.
I don't know yet which nation i will lead to victory :D

[vargr]

Land of Milk and Honey (135 + 20) might do, although may favor rushes more.

Anyway, I don't want to cause any last minute difficulties in map finding, I have plenty to do in the 2 late phase games I'm in. Just thought I'll offer to join if the 2nd water player was seen important as I've planned to play R'lyeh next.

[Morla]

Thats not good to two water...

Any opposition for Crafle of Dom, it has plenty of room for 2 water nations?


I really like Cradle of Dominion, but it´s a huge map (199 land + 22 sea), better if there are two water nations. On the other side Plain of Rusty nails (143 land + 12 sea)seems a little crowded for 10-11 players, and don´t favor water nations.

[Bullock]

i will give a try to Pangaea!

[Ephraim]

Actually, on second thought, I think I'll bow out. I remembered that I have a week-long conference coming up where my game time and internet connection may be flaky. I don't want to be the guy who is stalling or always asking for extensions.

Thanks for organizing the game--sorry my schedule doesn't work out.

Now Atlantis is out--you don't have to worry about water nations in your map selection.

[Anaconda]

Milk and Honey seems suitable for 13 players of which 2 are waterborn.


EDIT

Given the current circumstances, let it be the Rusty Nails v4

[Immaculate]

Can someone link streamers and standards? and what does it do?

[vargr]

Rysty nails seems a bit harsh for water nations (forces you on land too early while bordering large portion of the nations). I think I'll pass. The map should be fine for 11 land nations and the ponds free for later taking.

[Anaconda]

We got Atlantis last time and he did pretty well in Rusty Nails, but choose your self.

Considering most of us are noobs little handicap doesnt hurt, you know!

12 player game open for pretenders

http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Cursed_be_Iron

[vargr]

I'm quite noob with water nations myself. Like I said I have my hands full with other games yet and am really just scanning opportunities to start my water career, but perhaps with less challenge :D

Thanks anyway and you have a good game!

[momfreeek]

If there's one more I'll take jotnar. if not, not to worry.

[Anaconda]

Well come, northmen!

You are the final one, I call the sign-up.

[Immaculate]

Game: Cursed_be_Iron
Middle Age, max 12 players
Players so far: 9


Nations joined so far:
Ulm
Marignon
Agartha
Abysia
Machaka
T'ien Ch'i
Pangaea
Pythium
Vanheim

[RonD]

The game is started. Have fun, everybody!

[Morla]

LoL, i have no fort no units, this map have 10 fixed start positions, we are 12 nations, what do we do?

[Bullock]

ahh you lose :)

Damn that sux i love my starting loc.

[RonD]

Think of it this way: if you manage to win from that position you are guaranteed a special place in the Hall of Fame!

Obviously we will need to restart. I don't suppose anyone wants to go to the trouble to re-balance the map and establish 12 more-or-less fair starting spots? Without that, I am afraid that some people will start practically on top of another nation, while some lucky few will have extra room to expand (that's what I have run into before in an extra-crowded game with random start spots).


{edit @ Bullock} The idea of balanced start sites is that most of the 'lucky 10' should be happy about their position - I was, also, pretty pleased with what little I can see from the soon-to-vaporize castle Shinuyama.

[Immaculate]

So do we start again with a new map?

Do we have to resubmit pretenders or can the admin just set a new map? Probably not... :(

Anyway, maybe we go with good old cradle of dominions???

[Bullock]

@Rond yeah you righ it s obvious =p

Now about hosting you can put back the game to the starting state and change the map, no need to send again pretenders.

[dojango]

I am also without a fort and starting units. what map shall we switch to?

[Anaconda]

Ok, will work this out.

[Anaconda]

HOX HOX !!!!

The game has been un-started, and a map has been re-placed. Please DO NOT sedn old turns back, but expect the new ones, download a new map from this link and play the NEW first turn with the new map.

http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=440&st=0&#last


MAP: Realm of Rhoaring Rhinos FIX 1 (/wrap-a-round/)

[Anaconda]

And so it begins.

[Bullock]

Nice map !

[Immaculate]

Good luck y'all!

(thanks for organizing this Anaconda)

[Anaconda]

Your most welcome.

BTW, did you try capturing a province this turn, but got beaten? Thats the only way explaining why you got lead position in the hall of fame without jumping in provinces?! Except, if you got your army patrolling, and some indies tried to seize your seat of power, but you drove them off. Thats pretty much all possibilities there are.

Also, I can spill some beans too: I started my second fort already.

[Immaculate]

I bid on a merc that was in the hall of fame :P

EDIT: I call shenanigans on the second fort. Unless you got tons of money somehow- major awesome random event? If you did- that would be awesome for you. *and bad for your neighbors*

[Anaconda]

I am true to my word, cross my heart and hope to die.

[ghoul31]

thats one crowded map

[RonD]

thats one crowded map

No kidding. I started with only 3 land provinces connected to my capital, and have already found a neighbor in each of those three directions. Giving everyone a buffer of one province around their capital, I have a 'natural domain size' of 5 (yes, five) provinces. Yeah us!

Somewhere, at least one or two nations are chuckling because they won the lottery and have a lot of room. Its obvious that the only fair way to go is preset balanced start sites, but I can never quite decide if that is actually what I want to limit my playing to. The alternative is to take your chances and only try to compete in those games where you get a nice start. If you land in the crowd, go out in as big a blaze of glory as you can muster, but do it quickly and move on to a new game.

[Immaculate]

He wasn't kidding- a fort up already- WOW.

I saw lots of black candles last turn but havn't opened this turn set yet.

Jotun may have the right approach for such a crowded map

[dojango]

Go big or go home, eh? Sounds good. Having an awake SC pretender is a good move on a crowded map, then.

[momfreeek]

And there was me thinking it was a rather spacious map. I planned for fast expansion but it sounds like I definately got a nice start location.

[Immaculate]

Friends of the family are coming to stay with us Wednesday night. They are only staying the one night but i don't think i'll be able to get a turn in on Wednesday. So, after this turn (or the next as appropriate), can you please extend the deadline by 36 hours or so to accommodate this small inconvenience? I will be able to get a turn in tonight (Tuesday) and Thursday.

Please confirm receipt of this request Anaconda.

[Anaconda]

i try remember, send me a pm on wed if you may

[Immaculate]

Will do. Hopefully its not required but i think it will be.

[Immaculate]

SCIENTOLOGY NEWS:

The Church of Scientology, Pythium Chapter, is happy to announce that its most beloved prophet, John Travolta, has achieved the ‘Operating Thetan’ level of THREE. He has effectively gone through what is called the ‘Wall of Fire’ that surrounds a previously impenetrable whole track mystery. With this accomplishment, John Travolta, Prophet of Scientology, Scout of Pythium, has achieved the Thetan levels required to free himself from those influences that prevent him being his whole self. He is now free of the whole track overwhelm that has previously trapped him. He has confronted and eradicated the fourth dynamic engram that has plagued this universe for millennia.

Furthermore, the The Church of Scientology, Pythium Chapter, is happy to announce that its commander, Tom Cruise, has achieved the ‘Operating Thetan’ level of TWO. He has confronted the hidden area of his own existence on the ‘whole track’ and vast amounts of energy and attention have been realeased. He has experienced a resurgence of self-determinism and native ability, and unlocked the aberrative factors on the whole track and now achieves the ability to confront the whole track with his whole self. Hopefully soon he can join John Travolta on Operating Thetan level THREE.


If YOU are intrigued by these success stories and would like to learn more about the Church of Scientology, Pythium chapter, we invite you to come down to the Center East Mall on Thursday morning and speak to one of our ‘E-meter’ operators. While there, you can maybe learn about the influences that are preventing your spiritual mass from gaining its full capacity to engage the ‘whole track’.

[Anaconda]

I postponed the next host but on the other hand you could play your turn right now! Maybe well get new ones already this evening (GMT/UTZ). If we do, Ill postpone the second hosting also.

[Immaculate]

i'll be able to play this turn no problem- just not the wednesday one.

[Immaculate]

Who's picking on Shinuyama?

EDIT: green cat; you can get PMs?

[Immaculate]

The Scientology Creepers- Pangean Long-Hair Defensive Axis Pact,

The nations of Pythium and Pangea do hereby commit to the defense of one another in the event of an attack by the nation of Vanheim.

Signed,
John Travolta, on behalf of the Pythium Senate and the Church of Pythium Scientology.


To Vanheim,
This is not an aggressive move on our part, but merely a commitment to ensure our continued survival in the face of a nation we both consider a potential threat to our continued existence. Again, not a threat or aggression on our part- merely a defensive alliance.

[momfreeek]

Hahahaha

Such feeble speeches as you huddle together for safety like frightened children.

Drukchfgol has no pity for you, pathetic mortals!

[RonD]

We wish to publicly thank the Machakan nation for their generous gift of Black Hunter hides. Our skilled artisans have discovered that, when linked intricately together in a proprietary weave pattern, the hard glossy bits make for excellent, lightweight samurai armor.

Unfortunately, one of the spiders in your delivery was not yet actually dead - so we hope you do not mind that we returned that one. If you wish to kill it and send it back, we would be ever so grateful. We would suggest that your own armorsmiths make a suit of fine mail from it, but, based on the warriors who accompanied your gift, we understand that your people eschew armor (or, indeed, clothing).

We tried to make use of the rest of your gift, but we found the meat to be, er - disgusting. In the end, we simply mixed the meat with the entrails and any odd bits of goblin and Machakan that happened to be lying about the field, and let the goblins have a grand feast.

[Morla]

All those spiders were insane after eating Wyrm meat.
They wanted more.

[Anaconda]

Postponed 12H because if there is an unexpected need I cant come and do it later tonight anymore.

But please keep up the good pace anyways if you can!

[Anaconda]

Again, postponed 24H. This time its me. I got an extralong working day ahead of me, I cant get the turn done before late tuesday night.

[Bullock]

nvm

[Immaculate]

Sorry to be a problem but a storm took out our power at home and i can't play my turn (i'm writing this from work). Can you postpone 1 day?

Thanks.

I.

[Anaconda]

done

[Anaconda]

What a waste. Those young peaceloving giants sent to their graves by their cruel masters... they died for naught. Now their frozen bones decorate the great wall in Hell, waiting the final catalysmic battle and opportunity to die for their masters again. It will never come, thou. And their masters join them soon enough.

Crom, I have never prayed to you before. I have no tongue for it. No one, not even you will remember if we were good men or bad, why we fought, or why we died. No, all that matters is that two stood against many, that's what's important. Valor pleases you, Crom, so grant me one request, grant me REVENGE! And if you do not listen, then the hell with you!

[Immaculate]

I have to say i am really enjoying this game and the war i am fighting in. I am stuck unable to look at the turn until late tonight but i am very eager to see it. Green cat running Vanheim has done some very impressive things that i was not at all expecting and i must admit the surprising twists he has thrown at me have greatly added to my game- now if only he could come to understand that Scientology IS a real religion and not just a cult to be stamped out.

So yeah, thanks Green Cat.

[Bullock]

I have to say i am really enjoying this game and the war i am fighting in. I am stuck unable to look at the turn until late tonight but i am very eager to see it. Green cat running Vanheim has done some very impressive things that i was not at all expecting and i must admit the surprising twists he has thrown at me have greatly added to my game- now if only he could come to understand that Scientology IS a real religion and not just a cult to be stamped out.

So yeah, thanks Green Cat.

My spies report a clean victory at your cap :)

[Immaculate]

for who?

Also- if i move forces from outside provinces to my fortress while also breaking the siege will they attack together or separate?

Also, should i attack an enemy province with more than one army (from more than one province) and the enemy move, will my forces always move together and either catch the enemy army or not as a whole or is it possible that only some of my forces will fight the enemy at once then the other force will converge and fight by itself (or miss the enemy as it moves away)?

I guess the last two questions should be posted in the main thread but since this is a NOOB game... its worth asking for everyone's benefit right?

[Bullock]

For you ofc ! Considering your last announcement we are supposed to be in the same side lol :)

Also- if i move forces from outside provinces to my fortress while also breaking the siege will they attack together or separate?

Together unless you move trough magic ways.

[Morla]

I am sorry for my stale, it will never happen again, crazy week.

[Anaconda]

My bad, I didnt notice you were staling...

[Morla]

It is my responsability to send the turn in time or if i can´t ask for an extension.

[Immaculate]

green cat- we need to IM or chat or something. can you turn on your PM system?

[Immaculate]

would it be possible to take a thanksgiving break? (23rd to 29th)

[Anaconda]

frikkin' US holiday season... sure, I'll try to postpone the turns.

[Immaculate]

sorry- if i am the only one i can probably find a sub (never done that though so whats the process)

[Anaconda]

no need

[Immaculate]

Thank you Mr. Anaconda.

[Immaculate]

back- thank you for postponing.

[Anaconda]

Hosting interval changed up to 48H

[Immaculate]

who's beating on abyssia?

[momfreeek]

I assume Vanheim left. Switch to AI?

Lets hope machaka comes back, it'd be nice to get back on a schedule without having to wait a full 48 hrs between turns :/

[Bullock]

yeah i guess green cat has fled the field.
i'm also for turning him AI if he has a 3rd stall in a row.

[RonD]

Hah! Rather than an honorable fight to the death between the two nations with the suckiest starting positions - the chicken sh*ts of T'ien Ch'i have begged (paid) big bad Jotunheim to come do their fighting for them. The "brave" :haha: TC warriors can almost be seen - peeking out from behind their Jotun mommy's skirt.

Somehow I doubt that this will work out in TC's favor, no matter what 'promises' have been made.

[Hylobius]

TC has not begged, paid or even asked Jotunheim, or anyone else, for assistance.

[RonD]

TC has not begged, paid or even asked Jotunheim, or anyone else, for assistance.

Sez you!

I happen to have right here in my pocket the hand of Jotun's messenger, still clutching his scrap of paper. It reads:

I have spoken to Tien Chi and they have offered me an incentive to enter this war.

[Anaconda]

I'll c what I can do.

[momfreeek]

TC has not begged, paid or even asked Jotunheim, or anyone else, for assistance.

Sez you!

I happen to have right here in my pocket the hand of Jotun's messenger, still clutching his scrap of paper. It reads:

I have spoken to Tien Chi and they have offered me an incentive to enter this war.Unfortunately. Tien Chi changed their mind. Seeing as neither of you were willing to pay what i wanted I have taken back my sea and will continue to watch with interest.

[Hylobius]

Jotunheim contacted me and attempted to extort earth gems in exchange for attacking Shinuyama. I declined.

[momfreeek]

But you were not so dismissive of the idea at first:I would think that the appeal of owning some of his territory would be incentive enough, however I'm willing to sweeten the pot with some earth gems, although I don't have an abundance.

And, Shinuyama, you who invaded my province, ignored my message then invaded it again before contacting me, lets not pretend you are a model of honour either!


But I do not hold a grudge over such petty grievances. Honour is the folly of mortals. And I am still open to offers.

Drukchfgol, Terror of Jotunheim

[Immaculate]

scientology needs fire or death gems and will pay in water.

If you want 15 water gems and are willing to pay 15 fire gems, please hit me up.
If you want water and can pay in death we'll buy up to 40 death gems at a one to one ratio.

[Bullock]

can we turn Vanheim AI please ?

[Anaconda]

Can we like destroy him instead?

Turning him AI aint that easy...

[Immaculate]

Are we taking a holiday break?

[Anaconda]

if needed.

[Immaculate]

I will be out of country from the 24th to the 2nd. If i am the only one i can look for a sub but if there are others who cannot play, they should say something maybe and we can put this on hold for the week?

[Anaconda]

Yea, lets hear it. I could use a break too...

[Anaconda]

Machaka, need extension?

So whats the proper timewindow for our winter break?

[Immaculate]

24th-2nd

[Immaculate]

Can we change the hosting interval now? You can leave quickhost on just in case.

[Morla]

Can we change the hosting interval now? You can leave quickhost on just in case.

Yes, in a few games i admin i´ve changed the hosting interval to 240h and leave the quickhost on.

[Anaconda]

Yea, I'll do.

[Bullock]

Can we resume this game ?

[Morla]

Hi all, i was off the internet for a long time, i´ll try to send my turn later today or tomorrow.

[Anaconda]

The game is back on the track again. Hope every1 got nice and relaxing holiday season?

The first 2012 interval is 72H, then down to 48H, unless other inquiries come up.

[Bullock]

Morla, RonD, momfreek can we get your turns plz ?

[Bullock]

Well, it seems many players have lost interest in this game, we have played only a turn in a month ... and the admin doing nothing.

So if the game isn't back on track by the end of the next week i will withdraw from it.

[TimpaMan]

Hope no1 leaves yet... Host get the schedule back on track. And maybe we get this going once again... I certainly would like to continue playing this. Also, force Vanheim on auto or ****... hes been away for ages already....

[Immaculate]

I too am enjoying this. Playing against Mockingbird as MA pythium in another game gave me lots of ideas for how to play this pythium.

[jimbojones1971]

Hi guys, I've subbed in as Vanheim and set him to AI (turn has been submitted).

Hopefully this will help you get back on track with the game!

Edit: It looks like you only need Shinuyama (or a force-host) and then the turn can process.

[RonD]

I apologize - I did not realize that I was holding up the game. Between being a victim of a monumentally crappy start position and the long holiday pause, I pretty much forgot about this one and haven't been reading the thread. Thank you Bullock, for finally sending a pm.

[Bullock]

I would like to take the hand over the admin stuff of this game if no one has objection. Otherwise the game is going to die by itself.

[Bullock]

well no objection it seems.
Therefore i will ask Llama if i can get the admin rights of this game. Otherwise i guess this game is dead without an admin.

[Bullock]

The might Llama gave me admin rights !
Therefore i will put the game back to 48h and try to find a sub for Ulm.

I won't blame the minor nations to go AI as (Shinu did..) if they want to considering how chaotic this game was.

[Morla]

OH, thank you for solving this caos.

[Anaconda]

... and the admin doing nothing.



Nuthing? NUTHING? I did get JJ to turn VA AI.

Unfortunately the turn interval mechanics were a little bit abstract first and it appeared later on that once set longer, one cant reduce the current turn's interval. This caused two turns after holiday season to have unacceptable long intervals.

...if llama granted you admins, and your happy with it, hold on it. You seemingly have much more time in your hands and thats better for the game.

[jimbojones1971]

it appeared later on that once set longer, one cant reduce the current turn's interval.

I think you can put a negative value in to take time off the hosting interval? For example, put in "-4" to bring it forward 4 hours. But I can't remember if I have actually tried this, sorry :-(

[Immaculate]

jimbo is right- i've done that.

[Anaconda]

Like said, the interval mechanices were unfamiliar. Changing it didnt help for the current turn.

[Bullock]

Due to lack of time Marignon has to be subbed.
So the game is on hold 'til a sub is found.

[TimpaMan]

I cancelled my mind. I just want the turn interval raised a bit. I keep on playing.

[Ossa]

*volunteers*

[Anaconda]

Turn interval should go significantly up, say, up to 72 at least. Maybe even up to 84.

[Bullock]

I cancelled my mind. I just want the turn interval raised a bit. I keep on playing.

If i raise the timer to 60h can you play until the end?

Otherwise if you are only planning the short term goal we discussed before leaving i prefer Ossa take the hand now on Marignon.

[Anaconda]

60 is by far too low at this point of the game for large nations played by adult men with families and weekly schedules.

You didnt only take over the game where you didnt have admin role what so ever from the beginning, but now you try to manipulate who can play and who cant based on their free time.

This is not how the game should run, and I remember we having the same problem earlier in a different game where you had tendency to force host the turns (discussion of the problem starting from the page linked here): http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=47680&page=10

The game schedule shouldnt follow THE FASTEST LEADING PLAYER, it should follow the reasonably slowest leading player which, it seems, would be in this case Timpaman (as no other big nations brought up the schedule problem), and the logical raise in the interval would be 24H at least, maybe not more thought.

If you have problem with serving the needs of the slowest players, maybe you should just stick hosting the games you start and hand over the admind back to me. Not saying you were not doing great job so far, and every1, especially me is greatful you took the initiative and solved the delay lock when I was busy with my IRL, but I need to underline here that this isnt a rush game as a whole - not anymore when its getting late and the stroms are gathering.


...just to make sure, we should let Timpaman decide what kind of interval he needs, if its only reasonable. So I am not saying we should get 72 just for the sake of it, but based on experience I would say raising the interval only little, like 12H, might very well significantly increase the need for extensions, which is less tempting than having a fixed schedule.

I also want to point out that in any case 60H interval for a long game on a relatively large map is just not enough to finish the whole game with. We should raise the interval in any case beoynd 60H at some point so why not serve the needs of the busiest players right away.

[TimpaMan]

I have a strong and very unfortunate feeling, that Bullock is trying to take Marignon out of my hand with force. He hasnt been answering my private messages att all, and only promises me "a chance to continue" in this thread if i submit to his hosting schedule...
Propably the other player (Ossa) would already be playing Marignon, if i had just PM messaged him (Bullock). Thats why i had to write to this thread too, that i want to continue afterall. It is by no right, that host can take a players game from his hand and start selling to it another.

What Anaconda said, is true. Better to raise the interval to 72h, so we dont have the problem within our hand again in some 10-15 turns. It starts to be late game allready afterall, and it takes time to play the turns.

Well anyway, my cap things up:

1. I was about to quit the game in around 10 turns or so, cos im having hard time meeting the 48h interval (small kid, work etc...)
2. Bullock started immediately looking a sub for me.
3. I cancelled my mind, saying i will play, but want a longer interval, which is reasonable at this stage of the game. I PMed this to Bullock twice, without answer.
4. He was about to take Marignon out of my hands, so I had to write publicly to this thread too, so he couldnt do that.
5. Bullock hasnt even yet replied to my PMs, and I hope he doesnt rob my nation.

TimpaMan

[Bullock]

wow lol.
So much drama.

I proposed 60h because it is what timpaman asked me by PM.
But i'm wondering, Anaconda, how you dare trying to teach me anything about what kind of behavior should have an admin.
Especially after letting the game crumble for more than a month or being too lazy to set a player AI.

Now Timpaman, I haven't answered your PM by an other PM because i've made our discussion public.

Due to lack of time Marignon has to be subbed.
So the game is on hold 'til a sub is found.

I cancelled my mind. I just want the turn interval raised a bit. I keep on playing.

If i raise the timer to 60h can you play until the end?

Otherwise if you are only planning the short term goal we discussed before leaving i prefer Ossa take the hand now on Marignon.


So i was waiting for you answer. i wouldn't "rob" your nation.
Big word for nothing.

i won't even try to defend myself on the other narrow subjects, such has bringing the link of an old thread where nobody can fairly judge what happened by only reading the forum.

[Anaconda]

No Bullock, of that time we had over 2 weeks of Christmas break - after request of a player. And its good you took the host over when I was busy else where.

I am not indicating your trying to kick the player out here, maybe Timpaman misunderstood it, or you did, but...

...your hastiness is widely known, and the posted link is a hallmark of that characteristic; you force hosted the game multiple times until you were told by all other remaining players thats not how host should act.

I am underscoring here that a host is a servant, not a ruler. Players dont play for his amusement, but host serves for theirs. I failed that after the Christmas break, and I would hate to see this game ruined because you would too.

[TimpaMan]

Ok. Maybe i misunderstood. But from all the things, and from your hastiness, I really got the feeling that you will give Marignon to some1 else, without discussing about it anymore with me.

Well, thing is settled then, lets continue the game. Just increase the interval. I suggest 72h, so we dont have to do it again in the coming weeks or months.

[Bullock]

I am underscoring here that a host is a servant, not a ruler. Players dont play for his amusement, but host serves for theirs. I failed that after the Christmas break, and I would hate to see this game ruined because you would too.

Yeah i barely agree with this statement.
I'm not considering the admin has a servant but as a player with the same rights, acting to the best so the game keep running well and so people can enjoy it.

That's why i'm proposing to Marignon to increase the timer,
or trying to find some quick solution when the 1rt power of the game tells me that he is about to leave the game.

Again i'm wondering how you dare giving your opinion on this subject after dropping the game for a month (without any explanation or apologies) and haven't done anything of what you were supposed to do when you where the admin. Even as a player you are lacking of commitment.

And now i will stoop to your level and will bring, as you did, a link of something who have nothing to do with our discussion :
http://www.llamaserver.net/doAdminAction.cgi?game=Colonial_Conquest&action=showstales
16 stales in 62 turns ??
Yeah you surely know how to contribute to the amusement of others. You are a weight in all the game i saw you in.

Now i can't let you coming here teaching me lessons ... i'm simply done with you ... you are pissing me for months.

Since i don't want to be described as a fascist admin by kicking you (especially after the "robbing nation" thing earlier) i will withdraw from the game and will let you take back the admin stuff (password by PM soon) I'll try to convince Ossa to take my position ... it should be ok.

I sincerely wish much fun to the remaining players with their new admin.

[Anaconda]

Yeah i barely agree with this statement.


Yes I knew, you dont need to say it. That is exactly why I am addressing the issue.


I'm not considering the admin has a servant but as a player with the same rights, acting to the best so the game keep running well and so people can enjoy it.

With fast late game intervals the game keeps running, yes, but not well if the player base is struggling to meet the intervals and, like in my case, and in Timpaman's, maybe even failing the interval. Thats not the definitoin for "well running" game.

My so called "lack of commitment" is due to the IRL reasons but luckily it wont matter when the interval has been so low: 48H at turn 60 (which already it self points to the matter at hand). I havent asked for the extensions or longer interval to let you play and because I have been practically done since the turn, say 10 or anyways less than 15. So, you could have got your fast speedy game there. But how come it buggers you if the turn interval ACTUALLY IS 48, and I cant make it, and yet I havent delayed the game with asking constantly prolongations (so you could play)?

It shouldnt be your concern at all. More to that, this is irrelevant, oh wait, as it at least partly points to your hastiness, maybe its good your brought it up.


Again i'm wondering how you dare giving your opinion on this subject after dropping the game for a month (without any explanation or apologies) and haven't done anything of what you were supposed to do when you where the admin.

Maybe you lack the reading comprehension, but I doubt it because your English is well lined so it has to be something else.


Now i can't let you coming here teaching me lessons ... i'm simply done with you ... you are pissing me for months.

Yes, I wonder how come you take this so personally, when I have only pointed to the apparent facts? But so be it, pissing you has been my pleasure, dear Sir.


Since i don't want to be described as a fascist admin by kicking you (especially after the "robbing nation" thing earlier)

But you really considered it, right? Otherwise you wouldnt have written it at all, right? However I encourage you to do that no the less because that is how the admin works(right?)!

[Immaculate]

Okay, lets just play a game. This stuff happens. Feelings get hurt or whatever but we don't need to get too worried about the small stuff in life. This is a game- lets treat it as one.


Bullock- i would request that you take up your nation and just play without regard to this affair. Whether you like a player or not doesn't matter- maybe you can just rip him to shreds on the battlefield and feel better? You are a fun player to play with in everyone one of my games and i would miss you if you left in this one.

As for Anaconda, i'm sure you can just move on and play the game right? Any frustrations should be chanelled into using your nation to rip his apart. I am looking forward to a rematch between our nations after our previous clash in Morla's game.


There are no hurt feelings in DOMINIONS. There are no tears in DOMINIONS. There is only the clash of steel on steel and the thunder of great magicks.

Okay... so moving on everyone? ready, set, lets play dominions!

[Anaconda]

Sure, I am not telling any1 who should play and who shouldnt.

[Bullock]

Since you are using bad faith at high level (are you a politician ?) i will give a last answer to your spurious allegation. After that i will let you have the last word.
You deserve it.



With fast late game intervals the game keeps running, yes, but not well if the player base is struggling to meet the intervals and, like in my case, and in Timpaman's, maybe even failing the interval. Thats not the definitoin for "well running" game.

My so called "lack of commitment" is due to the IRL reasons but luckily it wont matter when the interval has been so low: 48H at turn 60 (which already it self points to the matter at hand). I havent asked for the extensions or longer interval to let you play and because I have been practically done since the turn, say 10 or anyways less than 15. So, you could have got your fast speedy game there. But how come it buggers you if the turn interval ACTUALLY IS 48, and I cant make it, and yet I havent delayed the game with asking constantly prolongations (so you could play)?

It shouldnt be your concern at all. More to that, this is irrelevant, oh wait, as it at least partly points to your hastiness, maybe its good your brought it up.


Ill faith one: you stale, it's my bad.

Yes it's irrelevant, i bring it here because it was as irrelevant as was your link. I was hoping you could understand that by yourself... nevermind !

But again it's a nice picture of your bad faith... you were staling because you were worried about my comfort. This one is maybe too big though.


Maybe you lack the reading comprehension, but I doubt it because your English is well lined so it has to be something else.


No it's not a lack of reading comprehension, you are just disappearing and coming back depending on your mood and you know it.


Yes, I wonder how come you take this so personally, when I have only pointed to the apparent facts? But so be it, pissing you has been my pleasure, dear Sir.

I didn't take it personally, you can imagine i really don't care what you can think about me. It's just the way you are describing thing to fit your point and convince others which is pissing me. Your "apparent facts" (you picked the right words) such as the way you justify your absences or the reason why you were stalling in the other game (this one make me laugh though, so it's not so bad).

But the best one i guess is:

With fast late game intervals the game keeps running, yes, but not well if the player base is struggling to meet the intervals and, like in my case, and in Timpaman's, maybe even failing the interval. Thats not the definitoin for "well running" game.



I can totally understand Timpa's lack of time to manage a big nation as marignon is. That's why i proposed him to turn to 60h
the timer. If i picked the number 60 it's because it's what he asked me by PM. i was fine to put more if he asked more, as one of the top leading nation it's totally fair to have a more important weight in such decision.

But you ?? your nation is barely the same at it was turn 10 ! even in research ! your nation is a 5 min turn nation at this point. Especially with no war running.

Same thing for the other game ! you had 4 lands left ! i saw your troops because i just killed them while you were staling! You had something like 300 troops and 10 mages.
Actually we have 48h to play a turn on this game.
You have stalled 3 times on the 4 last turns. Which means you need 8 days to move 10 mages?

Yeah indeed i think you will have to increase the timer of "cursed be iron" . Because in this game he has prolly 10 lands and 20 mages !

You play when you want to play, could be 4 times a week or ... once a month. This is kinda selfish ...
So when you come teach me good manners and how to do the admin stuff after that ...

So here is a nice example of your bad faith which is pissing me.
Especially when you are turning things so i become the bad guy who is abusing of his admin's role.


Since i don't want to be described as a fascist admin by kicking you (especially after the "robbing nation" thing earlier)

But you really considered it, right? Otherwise you wouldnt have written it at all, right? However I encourage you to do that no the less because that is how the admin works(right?)!

Also this kind of comment is pathetic. That's what make thought to politics at the beginning of the thread.

But indeed, kicking a troublesome player might be a part of an admin's role.
For instance If a player shows once every 5 turns it's better to replace him i guess...
But it seems i'm not shaped for this role so you can't blame me for that.

[Bullock]

Sure, I am not telling any1 who should play and who shouldnt.

Sooo pathetic ... haha

The small sentence showing the big you lol

[Anaconda]

Last words then: "Well, not far from what I expected."

[Anaconda]

Now that I actually paid attention what you said, these four things need commenting:


Ill faith one: you stale, it's my bad.

Every1 can read I am not saying my stall is your bad. You might wanna read from my lips what I am saying: Its not a big deal in fast paced game, and you still take it personally. However, force hosting in a game for your own amusement IS your bad, and it is related to the matter in hand because it HAS HIGH correlation with your obsessive idea that shorter interval is a necessity for a well running game (and active players shouldnt stall, which aint, again, really your problem).


o it's not a lack of reading comprehension, you are just disappearing and coming back depending on your mood and you know it.

No, I dont know it. How come you, then, can be so sure for it? You know my situation? You confuse two things here. Having time and being able. I am not a mood swinger, and actually never thought you could be - but now that you brought it up... well let us say it came to my mind...


This is kinda selfish

Theres not a lot one can do. Bad situation for a sub, bad situation to turn AI - which over all is a horrib decision - stalling every now and then; those were the options. Stalling every now and then, no harm done - except on your ideal of high speed turns.

But I didnt call you selfish, word "shortsighted" came to my mind. I didnt, because I dont think your mean nor stupid, just young. time will fix that. In time. However, you can ask what the player in the linked game was thinking about your force hosting when he was singled out. If I recall right, it was something like "IF THIS IS HOW YOU RUN YOUR GAMES I AM DONE" ...because, you know, he had only few lands left and all! As an admin, it was your duty to force it. Right?

Its all still there, you should go and look it up your self too, if you had forgot about it. And I also recall you strongly disagreeing with me and Samhain at the time, when we pointed out that its improper action.

This is the reason why I wasnt happy in the first place you took admin over. It was good work, though, got the game moving again.


I didn't take it personally, you can imagine i really don't care what you can think about me.

Thats is so radiant clear that hurts my eyes. But, how you seem to take this all so personally then, like this "dont give me lessons" and all that shaische?

[Hylobius]

Turnaround time for this game does not matter to me as I am down to one province and just trying to punish those who have dog-piled.

I don't want to prolong the argument here, but I will make one comment. I like a fast paced game, but I do believe that Bullock needs to calm down a little in the way that he admins games. I subbed in one of his other games and played for about 30 turns. I was being slowly eaten by one of the leaders and Bullock and I were having a fairly even war. Over the 30 or so turns I staled 3 times. Then, without a PM, I received notification from the Llamaserver that I was no longer running the position. There was no attempt to contact me prior to taking the position away. I checked the forum and there was a comment from a player that I had staled, nothing else.

Anyway, lets get back to Dominions.

[Bullock]

Turnaround time for this game does not matter to me as I am down to one province and just trying to punish those who have dog-piled.

I don't want to prolong the argument here, but I will make one comment. I like a fast paced game, but I do believe that Bullock needs to calm down a little in the way that he admins games. I subbed in one of his other games and played for about 30 turns. I was being slowly eaten by one of the leaders and Bullock and I were having a fairly even war. Over the 30 or so turns I staled 3 times. Then, without a PM, I received notification from the Llamaserver that I was no longer running the position. There was no attempt to contact me prior to taking the position away. I checked the forum and there was a comment from a player that I had staled, nothing else.

Anyway, lets get back to Dominions.

As you said you were eaten by major powers while being a small nation, you were a sub and stalling for a week. These are 3 good reasons for many people to give up.
After a week without any news from you and in this situation i definitely think it's a good moment to start looking for a sub.

Now concerning the missing PM. If you didn't have the time nor the possibility to connec to the shrapnel's forum to keep us posted on you current situation i don't see why you would have more time to connec to the shrapnel's forum and read your PM.
And a PM for what? To ask you what is going on ? By disappearing for a week you can expect that the admin is waiting news from you.

So there is no need to ask me to calm down, i m admining my games peacefully as I am now. And with this current state of mind, i would take the same decision has i have taken in the example above considering the situation.

Btw thanks for feeding the subject it has been very useful.

[Hylobius]

After a week without any news from you and in this situation i definitely think it's a good moment to start looking for a sub.

It wasn't a week, but I agree that when a player has staled twice it is a good time to send him a PM and ask if there is a problem, and then start looking for a sub. You didn't attempt to contact me and you didn't start looking for a sub, you simply took the position away from me. From the forum posts this appears to have been done unilaterally without input from anyone else in the game.


If you didn't have the time nor the possibility to connec to the shrapnel's forum to keep us posted on you current situation i don't see why you would have more time to connec to the shrapnel's forum and read your PM.


The point is that I don't have to connect to Shrapnel's forum to see that I have a PM, it shows up in my email. I check my email several times a day, while I check the forum once or twice a week, so PMs are a much more efficient form of communication.

[Bullock]

From the forum posts this appears to have been done unilaterally without input from anyone else in the game.


Has i said the decision sounds obvious to me: You remain away and silent for a week or almost, considering your situation i'm starting to look for a sub. No need to mention that looking for a sub take days which is extra time time to tell us if you are still alive or not.



The point is that I don't have to connect to Shrapnel's forum to see that I have a PM, it shows up in my email. I check my email several times a day, while I check the forum once or twice a week, so PMs are a much more efficient form of communication.

1) why i'm supposed to know that you receive a mail when you get a PM ? There is the same option for new posts in the forum.

2) Before thinking on "was it useful or not for the admin to contact you?" shouldn't we start thinking by "who is supposed to contact who ?" ?

Why haven't you taken 2min to post something here or send a PM (whatever) to ask for a postpone ?

If you do agree with me that the first person who should contact the other one is the staler then do you have a good reason?

If so or if you don't agree with the previous statement (you should PM first) then next question:

What the purpose for the admin to send a PM in such situation?

You are too busy IRL to take 2min to post here ?
i don't see why you would have 2 min to reply to my PM then.

You have lost internet access ?
I don't see how my PM would help. (or the mail resulting of it)

You just forgot about the game and it's the duty of the admin to remind you to play ? (which i doubt)
With a 48h/turn with 12h reminder you receive a mail everyday from the llama server.

I'm certainly missing a fourth case, which is certainly yours.
In that case i'm waiting to hear from you and preparing, in advance, apologies.

Otherwise there is no need to answer.
Lets close this.

[Hylobius]

Short recap: You and I are at war, it is an even fight, I miss two turns and you set me AI, I think this is inappropriate and you think this is being a good admin.

I'm done.

[Bullock]

Short recap: You and I are at war, it is an even fight, I miss two turns and you set me AI, I think this is inappropriate and you think this is being a good admin.

I'm done.

You are insinuating that i wanted to find a sub (no turning you AI...) because we were at war ???? are you kidding? i'm dead anyway !! It hasn't even cross my mind a sec...
i had 10 lands left and the 2 majors power who are allied on my back...

I'm amazed by this new argument... while you can't even defend the previous ones.

So has i did for Anaconda, i will let you have the last word because it's totally useless to talk with people like you.

[Anaconda]

double...

[Anaconda]

Why haven't you taken 2min to post something here or send a PM (whatever) to ask for a postpone ?

Maybe the same reason I DID stale on your game, NOT BEING ABLE TO??? With the time sending an email one could easily do the the necessary moves to submit a turn. For example, you dont necessaraliy have DOM3 on comp you surf the net... You might not even have the net at all, depending what you do.

The problem is we are not necessarily ABLE to do that... for example mortgage dafaults, sick children, family emergencies, you name it!

We, me and Hylobius have nothing in common, even while we played the same game I didnt pay any attention on him, except we both ADMIT our defaults and we both have same experience of Bullocks adminship... how come?

I could post more than one link about him looking for subs or hopping on people stalling when they cant play for a circumstansial reason or another... the difference is that while we, Hylobius and I, realize we did fail our part he doesnt find any fault on his behaviour. just typical immature behaviour.

Bullock, not every one here is a priviledged high class high schooler, some of us are just typical fimaly guys with people and oblications to take care off, we couldnt care less of your excitement of getting several turns to play a week.

[Anaconda]

Btw thanks for feeding the subject it has been very useful.

Just one big centense, showing small you. Wouldnt wonder if your parents hate you.

[Anaconda]

Btw thanks for feeding the subject it has been very useful.

One big sentence, showing small you. Wouldnt wonder if your parents hate you.

[Immaculate]

Okay, take this to PMs please. This is not the place for your argument. Moderators should shut this argument down.

This is a game for the rest of us and this thread is to describe and organize that game.

[Bullock]

Wouldnt wonder if your parents hate you.

I definitely prefer this last word from someone pretending to be a mature person.

[Morla]

Ohhhh, a few stales, crazy days. And pythum attacks me, we had a NAP, do u remember?

[Immaculate]

No- we did not have a NAP. I am pretty sure we didn't anyway... i certainly don't remember. if you show it to me i'll send you 1600gold as a 'sorry'.

[Immaculate]

did jotunheim just declare war on the entire world?

[Anaconda]

Waiting Morla to show up untill tomorrow night. Just sent him an email about Machaka.

[Morla]

hi all, sorry. I had internet problems, well no inet at all.

I will check Machaka status and if i am beaten or almost dead i will turn myself AI, i am really sorry.

[Immaculate]

I require an extension.

[Immaculate]

Morla,

I am sorry about attacking your nation when you had no internet access. That sucks for you and is an unpleasant surprise. I hadn't realized that was happening since you posted on here in post #154.

[Immaculate]

I just spent 45 minutes on my turn and i am still not done and probably won't be able to get to this until fairly late tomorrow or even wednesday- can we extend the turn 24 hours please?

Thanks,
I.

[Anaconda]

ofc

[Immaculate]

Anaconda,

Could you update the player list both on the llamaserver database and in the first post. Its a bit confusing to contact players when you don't know who is actually playing (especially for pangaea).

[Immaculate]

Also:

Sorry ti'en chi. that was an accident. Our intentions are not hostile.

[Anaconda]

Updated.

Is Pangaea still Bullock or did he get a sub? Also, point out other unaccuracies, please.

[Immaculate]

I think its just bolluck being replaced. And i think the replacement was ossa?

[Immaculate]

EDIT:

I'm trying to find a sub to take over; i'm not really enjoying this anymore- its too late game- there's no real research goals to look forward to anymore- and there is too much micro. I'll keep playing since the first post specifically says not to go AI until the bitter end but i do hope to find a sub.

[Anaconda]

So we are postponing a bit to find a sub. Hes too important to go AI, I think.

[Immaculate]

No need- i'll still post one or two more turns. i won't go AI right away.

[RonD]

I've been out of this game for awhile, so maybe the folks that remain feel differently. But I would worry that becoming the leader and then going AI because you lose interest is a good way to become unwelcome in future games.

[Immaculate]

Yeah- thats exactly why i am looking for a sub. I agree completely with your point. If i cannot find a sub, i will continue to play- if for on other reason than what you point out. Wanna sub RonD?

[momfreeek]

I'm quite enjoying getting piled on :p. Every turn brings new challenges.

PS: that Claws of Cocytos is SICK! Not sure what happens to those guys in Cocytos but they are not dead.. and they can come back I think.

[Immaculate]

you've played and continue to play extremely well momfreek.

[momfreeek]

you've played and continue to play extremely well momfreek.thx!

My overall strategy hasn't been succesful though. 3 nations I've picked fights with, I've not beaten anyone outright... and now everyone hates me ^^. Still, I've had plenty of good battles and thats what the games all about for me.

[Immaculate]

Explain to me why my grendel couldn't hurt your huntress- i don't understand what was happening. You seemed to be getting red fire effects but nothing else.

[momfreeek]

I had too much defence so he was missing every attack. Fire brand flame procs on the square even if you miss but its insignificant damage vs invulnerability and fire resistance (14 ap fire dmg, no strength added).

I don't understand why i never got entangled.. perhaps I had enough attack to bypass your shield? Or perhaps I had enough strength to ignore it. Not sure

[krpeters]

Immaculate cast LoLKatZ on me, and I failed my resistance check, so here I am volunteering to sub for Pythium. I'll try not to suck too badly. Which version of CBM are we using?

[Immaculate]

1.92 and thanks.

anaconda can you change the e-mail of the player and he can request turn resend?

I guess krpeters will have to PM you his e-mail address.

[Anaconda]

Will change tonite

[Immaculate]

In that case you may need to provide a turn extension seeing as how i just got the 12h warning message.

[krpeters]

Oh, wow, this is a monster of a game. Hmmm, it may take me a day or two to figure out what is going on. An extension would definitely be a good idea unless Immaculate wants to play this turn and I could start the next.

[Anaconda]

48H extenson granted, email changed. Keep me posted.

[krpeters]

Thank you!!!

[krpeters]

OK, I submitted a turn. I'm not going to pretend it's a good one, but I think I'm getting the hang of this position. Definitely lots of potential for interesting strategies. I hope I survive long enough to try them!

[krpeters]

Well, if nothing else, this game will be a learning experience for me. For example, I confirmed my suspicions that Flames from the Sky is a waste against troops. But it turns out it's pretty handy against mages. Ouch!

[momfreeek]

yeah, the stats I've got say "15AP fire dmg" so i figure thats almost certain death for an unarmoured human and about 50/50 vs 10hp+10 protection. Seems it even hits 50% of commanders inside forts.

[krpeters]

OK, good news -- my Harbringers aren't totally useless! Yay! Although I would have liked to have had a water bless.

In other news, I'm getting my turns in pretty quickly, that counts for something, right?

[momfreeek]

Yah, mirror image seems to be a good counter to claws of kocytos.

[krpeters]

Well, I see why Immaculate got frustrated -- Claws of Kokytos is seriously overpowered, insanely so in CBM. I suppose it's a good thing I have little experience building SC's -- Jotenheim can flatten them easily.

I guess I may as well start dumping gems into ethereal crossbows.

[Immaculate]

i do believe its (claws) range is limited? maybe start in the rear and wait for him to cast other spells and deplete his blood slaves?

[momfreeek]

I haven't got it to work on your harbingers.. yet (or is there some desync issue here?).

[krpeters]

Oh, you're right. I saw the precision 100 and for some reason read range 100 as well instead of range 30.

And no, you haven't nailed any Harbringers yet, but I was just looking ahead at the likely intersection and doing the math. 200 gold and 2 virgins vs. 60 gems doesn't add up well for me :)

[momfreeek]

It sure does seem brutally effective (and cheap). I don't know if its a particular intended feature of Jotunheim or what.

It seems guys can come back from Kokytos (they are not counted as "dead" in the battle report, held artifacts are still "in play" and there is one artifact that helps "navigate the planes of hell".. one of the tomes).

[Immaculate]

its stupidly overpowered in my opinion but my opinions are often quantifiably wrong. its should be resistible but hard to resist- in my opinion (like +4 penetration?).
In a different game mictlan did a job on agartha with it, sending like three grendels to ice-hell in the first turn before they even got an action.... thats not balanced in my (obviously wrong) opinion.

[momfreeek]

Well, I'm not disagreeing, but I'll sure keep trying to send these damn harbingers to hell ^^

Even if it was resistable I could spam it quite easily and retreat (one non-cap 250g commander + 2 blood slaves). Seems like it could be more expensive to cast.

[krpeters]

In vanilla, it's a 200 fatigue spell, meaning you really do need a 3B 1W mage to cast it or a booster. Either way, you reduce the frequency considerably. It's CBM's change to 100 that really puts the hurt on, allowing any 2B 1W to pop it.

As for intent... well, we can just assume that Mictlan and Jotenheim have "immunity to SC" and see what effect it has on gameplay :)

[Calahan]

In vanilla, it's a 200 fatigue spell, meaning you really do need a 3B 1W mage to cast it or a booster. Either way, you reduce the frequency considerably. It's CBM's change to 100 that really puts the hurt on, allowing any 2B 1W to pop it.
Quick FYI (before the above point is used in any argument for or against anything)...

You can not use extra slaves to temporarily increase one casting level on the battlefiled in the same way you can use extra gems to do this. So for example, while a S2 mage can be giving 2 Pearls and will use them both to successfully cast Antimagic, you can not give 2 slaves to a B2 mage and expect him to cast Life for Life, as he can not use a slave to temporarily boost himself to the B3 needed to successfully cast this spell. As such a base B2W1 mage still won't be able to cast Claws without some form of help (booster, communion, whatever). So CBM has not changed the minimum base requirements for Claws in this sense. (ie. In both vanilla and CBM.1.92 you need a base B3W1 mage if no path boosting is involved)

Carry on.

[Valerius]

You can not use extra slaves to temporarily increase one casting level on the battlefiled in the same way you can use extra gems to do this. So for example, while a S2 mage can be giving 2 Pearls and will use them both to successfully cast Antimagic, you can not give 2 slaves to a B2 mage and expect him to cast Life for Life, as he can not use a slave to temporarily boost himself to the B3 needed to successfully cast this spell. As such a base B2W1 mage still won't be able to cast Claws without some form of help (booster, communion, whatever). So CBM has not changed the minimum base requirements for Claws in this sense. (ie. In both vanilla and CBM.1.92 you need a base B3W1 mage if no path boosting is involved)

Fair point, but it's still a bad change since the reduced fatigue means you can script more castings in the first five turns. And the nations that benefit most from this, in particular Jotun with its recruit-everywhere skratti, didn't need the boost. Don't know why this change was made and hopefully it will either be undone or the casting requirements increased.

[momfreeek]

You can not use extra slaves to temporarily increase one casting level on the battlefiled in the same way you can use extra gems to do this.Oh, thats news, thx.

Can you use extra slaves to reduce fatigue? I'm not quite clear if thats just a side-benefit of the level boosting mechanic..

[Calahan]

Fair point, but it's still a bad change since the reduced fatigue means you can script more castings in the first five turns. And the nations that benefit most from this, in particular Jotun with its recruit-everywhere skratti, didn't need the boost. Don't know why this change was made and hopefully it will either be undone or the casting requirements increased.
Oh I didn't say it wasn't a bad change ;) I was just doing my usual correcting people who post faulty mechanics (I did it politely this time as well :shock:)

FWIW, I think Blood is horribly broken and OP in CBM (Edit - Removing SDR's is nothing more than a flesh wound), and not far off that in vanilla. But as least in vanilla Blood was kept in check with Gem Gens (Edit - And no, fixing a broken game feature with another broken game feature is not a good idea, in fact it's a truly awful idea. Thought I'd point this out before any Gem Gen lovers jump on this quote and use it for their stupid argument). But without Gem Gens Blood can just rule the game once you get a mega Blood economy going, since every Blood spell/ritual is either ridiculously cheap, ridiculously powerful, or both in most cases. And Blood summons are not exactly bottom of the food chain. But I've ranted about all this before in many CBM chats and nothing's been done about it, so I've just stopped moaning about it now (the community cheers :clap:)

---------------------
You can not use extra slaves to temporarily increase one casting level on the battlefiled in the same way you can use extra gems to do this.Oh, thats news, thx.

Can you use extra slaves to reduce fatigue? I'm not quite clear if thats just a side-benefit of the level boosting mechanic..
Oh you can still burn extra slaves to reduce fatigue, as that mechanic has nothing to do with using extra gems to temporarily raise your spell casting level.

In fact with Blood spells it's just about impossible to stop the the AI chomping through the slave pile and using as many slaves as his Blood level allows. As most of the Blood battlefield spells are such high fatigue that the AI will always look to reduce it as much as possible with slave burning. Although you can stop this during the first round of battle (several rounds if you want to get fancy) with clever commander placement, but it's very fiddly to do and generally not worth it since slaves are cheap as hell anyway (hint slaves need to be on a different commander to the mage using them).

[krpeters]

You can not use extra slaves to temporarily increase one casting level on the battlefiled in the same way you can use extra gems to do this.

Oh, I didn't realize this. That does make it a little better. I was afraid that every one of his Skratti would be punishing me. 1/4 isn't quite as bad -- though still a good argument against sending SCs his way.

[Anaconda]

Theres an issue: marignon got medical emrgency, and wont keep playing from here. Any suggestions? Stale, Sub, What?

[krpeters]

I'm going on vacation for a few days, I'll be back on Friday, so if you want to postpone the game until then while looking for a sub that's fine by me.

[dojango]

hey, just browsing the last few pages to see what happened after I was defeated, and noticed the "claws" chat. It's gat a range of 30, so if you suspect that that spell is going to be in play, you'll have to put all your SCs in the back row and have them sit until the scripts run out. I think you'd be out of range even if the enemy caster is in the front of his side of the field.

[krpeters]

yeah, then his caster is scripted to 5xhold and hopes my guy charges forward to meet his claws once everyone's scripts are out :)

we'll see how many of my harbringers he can nab, they're a lot cheaper than a typical SC.

[Whollaborg]

I am subbing Marignon and would really appreciate some insight on what is going on, who's with who and whos gonna beat me up.

[momfreeek]

Agartha is full turtle. Everyone else hates Jotunheim and is hellbent on wiping us off the map. Thats about as complex as it gets I think ^^.

[Whollaborg]

I would be mostly interested whos at war with Marignon?

[momfreeek]

Just jotunheim I think. Pangaea and Pythium are both focused on Jotunheim (best ask them though). Ulm & Marignon are definately friends (Jotunheim-Marignon nap was dependant on Jotunheim not attacking Ulm.. till Marignon rudely broke it without warning ofc!).

[krpeters]

BTW, how did we get into this situation of everyone hating Jotenheim? Those Claws are scary. But it's a pain trying to attack him from the opposite side of the board.

Looking at the score graph, it seems like the major action is Jotenheim vs. Marginon. Tien Chi, Ulm, and Agartha are just trying to stay out of the way, and Pythium is raining down random angel death.

[Anaconda]

Well, Jötnar is an extremely good player and got a good start. We coined alliance with Marignon early on and when negotiations of cooperation between Jotun giants and armor wearing men from Irminsul ended without results we had this small war. Marignon pressured Jotun to leave me alone and then they both just grew. Now, maybe a little bit too late, all hells broken loose.

[momfreeek]

my memory of events:

Pythium hates me for a couple of reasons:
1. astral corruption (has been up for most of the game)
2. spamming 'horror seed' all over machaka while pythium was invading. was fun watching fights where two horrors would suddenly burst out of a bunch of schmucks and eat the startled zmey ^^
Pythium also broke their NAP without warning. (thats not a complaint)

Ulm hates me cause I tried to bully them into making me items on the cheap (before marignon stepped in)

Tien Chi hates me cause I tried to invade them at their lowest point (but we ended up scrapping with pangaia..)

war with Pangaia escalated.. and was going ok till everyone else piled in.

Marignon.. I think they just figured Jotunheim's time was up (along with general dislike)

[krpeters]

I just learned a new lesson today. Angels >> Demons, wow!

[momfreeek]

lol, yeah. don't try to corrupt an arch angel, he's got a flambau...

[Anaconda]

The player lists updated, interval now 84H.

[krpeters]

One advantage of SP games is that they move along much faster. I've tried a specific strategy and won 2 out of 3 in the time it has taken to play about 10 turns of this one.

The disadvantage is that the computer is as dumb as a brick. I don't think human opponents would fall for it.

[Whollaborg]

I am fine with replay or continuing with error.

[Anaconda]

I will sustain my vote, let the big ones speak!

[Ossa]

continue

[krpeters]

I don't see anything catastrophic on turn 78, so I'm willing to keep going. Although I worry what may have caused the problem. If it crashes again, then what?

Is my ludicrous quantity of werewolf freespawn possibly the problem?

[krpeters]

OK, turn 78 is in.

In other news, I was playing around in testing, and I discovered that Opposition works much better against Poison Golems than Soul Slay. Fortunately my Theurgs can cast either with ease. SCs be warned :-P

[Whollaborg]

Sorry, It seems that I am running out of time to run the turns. Already missed recent one :(

This mean Marignon is there for anyone to play with. Should I put up a ad for a sub? I can do this turn and few more possibly, but there I go...

[Anaconda]

Yes, your nation is too vast to AI, but considering the ammount of time it needs to play and even for a new player to dive in... are we even close to the end? Pythium and Jotun are both magnificient nations, their war might could go on until the end of days...

[krpeters]

Jotenheim is making impressive mincemeat of Marginon (or so my scouts tell me).

I'm still trying to conceive of an effective response. It's hard to design an SC strong enough to take on his thugs yet cheap enough to risk getting Klawed.

[momfreeek]

10 rods of the phoenix on quickened giants proved extremely effective against massed armor. After melting marignon's invading knights and Ulm's main force, invading marignon was not too troublesome.

[Anaconda]

Yes, but question still remains. Is Momfreek a winner already or should we fine a aub for losing Marignon and keep on playing?

[momfreeek]

I'm sieging marignon's capital. If they lose that i don't see much reason to not let them go AI.. I'm not sure if I can storm the fort cleanly though.

I deliberately left a belt of marignon territory between myself and Pythium to avoid them interfering.. strategically its in my interest for marignon to look like a fully functioning nation to the outside while I gut them.

I've lost important stuff fighting Pangaea as well, i'd be surprised if Pythium can't win by throwing everything at me and seeing what sticks. It'd be a shame not to try it but I'd be happy to call the game a draw even if I'm not sure its the realistic conclusion ^^. it is quite drawn out already.

[Ossa]

Actually I belive the game is far from finished at the moment.
Pythium is the largest nation, with the most income gem and coin wise. They are the silent powerhouse and have very few to gain from conquering the small sattelite nations - I wonder how they will far against Jotunheim.

I dont dare to take the remains of Ulm or Agartha because then I might seem to be to powerful for Pythium. On the other hand I believe I could stop and conquer Jotunheim if I really tried. I have so incredibly many blood slaves in my dungeons its not remotely funny any more. I believe though Pythium has more than 2000 gems stacked up by now.

I'd vote to let Marignon go ai, he's dead in the water anyways, and continue.

[krpeters]

I don't mind letting Marginon go AI... like everyone says, he's pretty gutted at this point.

As for the Jotenheim / Pangaea / Pythium war... well, I am pretty newbish, so I have no doubt Jot and Pang could crush me if they ganged up on me. Which is why my present strategy is, erm, unconventional. Especially since I have no easy way to get troops over to Jotenheim anyway.

So I'll leave it to the more experienced players to decide what to do from here. I don't object to anyone declaring victory, or, if they prefer, beating up on a newb :)

Just one thought though -- have a look at the dominion chart before deciding one way or the other.

[Musseboy]

I'm stalled between giants so I can't do much. I leave the decision about future of the game for those who fight for the victory.

[Anaconda]

Sorry, It seems that I am running out of time to run the turns. Already missed recent one :(

This mean Marignon is there for anyone to play with. Should I put up a ad for a sub? I can do this turn and few more possibly, but there I go...

So how about you play as far as possible with us and when feeling you cant anymore, juts turn AI on?

[krpeters]

It was fun watching Marignon's mages self destruct!

Glad to see the rest of his forces were able to do something usefl.

[momfreeek]

lol, I don't know what was going on there.. certainly overconfident thinking I could roll through into the capital >.<

[krpeters]

Well, considering how effectively you were steamrolling over everything else, it wasn't unreasonable to think you could pulverize his cap.

But castles are hard to take. My preference is to occupy territory and then domkill the troops inside.

[krpeters]

Did Marignon just go AI? He just launched a pointless offensive against me, no warning, no nothing, and we had an NAP... not that he didn't have reason to end it, but I thought he would have at least sent me a "hey you suck" message first.

Oh, he's not showing in the turn listing... yeah, he went AI. Well, this should get interesting quickly.

[krpeters]

Hmmm, did everyone else give up?

I'm eager to see if my insane strategy has a chance of succeeding. C'mon, someone cast Fires from Afar on me already!

[Ossa]

Ah... no. Still fighting;)

[krpeters]

Well I'm glad someone is --

http://www.llamaserver.net/doAdminAction.cgi?game=Cursed_be_Iron&action=showstales

Because it seems like most have given up :(

[Ossa]

Oh - why did I refrain from gobbling them up;) ?

Oh wait - shall we put them to ai?

[Anaconda]

Agartha has problems with hard drive, well c what he can do to it. I was simply sick, now I am back in business.

[Hylobius]

I have been out of the country without internet but I have resumed submitting turns for TC. Not much I can do though.

[krpeters]

"Yay! I won the battle"

Then I watched the battle replay. Wow. My mages are morons (what a surprise!)

Well, at least my strategy of using nearly indestructible chaff paid off, even if my mages did a fine job of destroying them!

[krpeters]

Ooops, posted that to the wrong game discussion group. In *this* game, my troops are just relaxing at the beach catching some rays :)

[krpeters]

OK, did everyone give up or something?

[Ossa]

No, still not. I just missed the deadline once;)

[Anaconda]

Agartha will be available assumingly again in Wednesday.

[krpeters]

So what percent of games last longer than a year? I just noticed this one started in October of 2011... wow.

[krpeters]

Dominion
Nation Dominion
Independents 0
Pythium 1744 -- BWAHAHAHA!!!!
Ulm 54
Marignon 88
T'ien Ch'i 28
Machaka 0
Agartha 83
Abysia 0
Pangaea 575
Vanheim 0
Jotunheim 446
Bandar Log 0
Shinuyama 0

[Immaculate]

holy crap- how did that happen?

[momfreeek]

thats all they've been doing for ages. we should totally be ganging up on pythium... just give me all your castles and i'll leave u alone!

_
Drukchfgol