The Ascension Wars: MA,12 players, no mods, newb friendly. [Year 4, 8/12 remaining]

[legowarrior]

It doesn't seem like Ashod isn't doing too well. We don't mind the fall of Ashod, but we fear the rise of Mictan and C'tis more.

[Nightfall]

It doesn't seem like Ashod isn't doing too well. We don't mind the fall of Ashod, but we fear the rise of Mictan and C'tis more.

As someone has already observed, I don't have great scales, which means having a few extra territories is less of an issue.

The stats that matter most are income, gem income and research.

Ashdod has great scales by the way, but not enough dominion on his pretender to spread them, which makes them kind of wasted. My main reason for attacking him was that his diplomacy was WAY too aggressive.

[3V4JKZ2]

I look forward to some analysis based on what I wrote after the game in regards to what it was that made me seem WAY too aggressive, since I find myself mildly confused by that statement each time it is made. Though I do find tone on the internet a troublesome thing sometimes.

Re Scales/Dominion: Yeah, that was a mistake; in my single player games I always had plenty of time to build lots of temples to spread dominion, but I'm starting to realize what a different beast multi-player is.

I think my scales actually add up to +4 (160 pts); I'm not sure if that's considered "great scales" or not. How much is considered normal for dominion/scales in a multiplayer game (once accounting for variety among nations?)

[legowarrior]

The thing is that C'tis have a poisonous domain. If I see it coming at me, it will make me cranky.

[legowarrior]

You know, when I talk about C'tis getting powerful, I should say Mictlan instead. Those are the guys creeping up on me. Although C'tis domain is nasty.

[samoht]

I look forward to some analysis based on what I wrote after the game in regards to what it was that made me seem WAY too aggressive, since I find myself mildly confused by that statement each time it is made. Though I do find tone on the internet a troublesome thing sometimes.

haha well specifically the first communication you sent me said you were pretty sure you could stomp me and you started demanding certain provinces near me as payment in order for you to not stomp me. :p

People might not take to kindly to that kind of talk. You might try a more diplomatic approach if you're actually interested in a temporary peace, or just attack if you really think you can win.

[3V4JKZ2]

Yeah, I wasn't expecting my bluff to get called.

[samoht]

Yeah, I wasn't expecting my bluff to get called.

It would have been different if it were mid-late game and I didn't know the composition of your forces or where they might be on the map. As it is in the early game I knew you had a small army because you simply couldn't have produced a large one at that point. And as soon as I came into contact I sent my scouts your way, plus my dominion spread, I had a pretty good idea that you COULDN'T have taken me at any point, but I didn't want a war in the first four turns. It would have been suicidal for the both of us.

Also, at the point I started attacking you my army was roughly three times larger than yours (units multiplied by unit size) so I knew that I had significantly more units than you considering you mostly have giants. If the score graphs weren't on it might have been harder to call your bluff.

[Ragnarok-X]

Miclan got an interesting strategy. Just got a nastly battle report from my spies. Anyone got a problem with me posting the battle/bless ?

[Ragnarok-X]

The game is waiting for the turn file from man, even though man is out ?

[Wendigo_reloaded]

Man is dead, but the game needs 1 turn to learn about it, I think.

Our game admin can force hosting, right?

[Ragnarok-X]

the turns gonna host in an hour anyway, no need to force it.

[3V4JKZ2]

Apologies, just woke up, forcing hosting.

[3V4JKZ2]

Hmmm, I forced hosting, but it doesn't seem to have removed man, or cleared our turn ques; so everyone make sure you submit a turn for turn 14.

Man wasn't dropped either, once everyone can confirm they've submitted a new turn, I'll set them to AI; hopefully that'll get quickhosting going again.

[kennoseishin]

Best arena results ever. That is all.

[legowarrior]

I can't believe how awesome Major Astral Bless seems to be with the undead.

[Executor]

Damn, forgot about the arena.

Would Agartha be so kind as to stop spreading false propaganda against the peace loving lizards?
And why am I being singled out when TC is clearly in the lead? And I don't have crazy jags either. Leave my swamps be darn dengit!

BTW, 3V4JKZ2, Man is very much so removed from the game, check game info on llamaserver, or in-game statistics than pretenders of the world. He does stay on the score graphs after death however.

[Blubbernaught]

Best arena results ever. That is all.

I agree. That was great.

[3V4JKZ2]

I was confused that my scout with the spear thingy didn't get to go to the Arena to fight?

Also, I guess I was just looking before an update.

[Nightfall]

And why am I being singled out when TC is clearly in the lead? And I don't have crazy jags either. Leave my swamps be darn dengit!


I have to love that two nations that are ahead of me in every area are still crapping on with the fear propaganda.

[legowarrior]

Don't blame me about the rumors, I'm just passing along what I heard from the Rumor Mongers. Don't worry though because we'll go after those rumor mongers and stop them. We just don't know where they are... yet.

[samoht]

I can't believe how awesome Major Astral Bless seems to be with the undead.

Yeah a major astral bless is great for undead. They can use all the magic resistance they can get. And the twist fate isn't too shabby either, considering how frail they normally are.

If I ever get the chance to play MA Ermor again I'm strongly considering a bless strategy even though they're not a nation built for bless. Their sacred vestal ladies are already ethereal with good MR and defense and a magical spear, but add a major astral and good water, and you have units that basically can't be hit. They would have insane defense, great MR, a good number of attacks, and you still have to consider that you're going to miss most of the time (with normal weapons) becuase of ethereal, and the first time you ACTUALLY get past all of that... POOF! Twist fate, sucka.

Of course when you do actually hit them... they don't have any armor and just 9 HP if I remember correctly.

But all of that is considering what they're looking like before all of the Unholy magic available to boost their MR, attack and speed even more. INSAAAAANE!

[Executor]

A bless strategy is not really a good thing for MA Ermor, don't get sucked in by how awesome the vestals are.
They are too expensive, capital only and too easy to kill. You'd need a high dominion to compensate for the capital only part and a water + astral bless is very expensive for Ermor.

Archers will still massacre your vestals even though they are ethereal.
Anything with moderate or high protection will be extremely hard to kill for them (str 9 and a spear). Even low level spell will make short work of them. They need undead leadership which means you'll lose a lot of early research and likely Grand Thaumaturgs.
And last but not least, Ermor desperately needs some diversity which it can get only with a pretender. Death and astral is what you have, which isn't a lot. Your non cap mages suck.

[Ragnarok-X]

Well i can say ermor bless on vestals is good, but they definitly cant beat angry ancient giants. Nice battle.

[samoht]

Well i can say ermor bless on vestals is good, but they definitly cant beat angry ancient giants. Nice battle.

Thanks. Now I gotta wait until I get home to watch that.

:mad:

[Ragnarok-X]

Sorry. I didnt mean to spoiler if the participants havent watched it. I wont do it again, sorry. It wasnt bad, no worries.

[samoht]

Sorry. I didnt mean to spoiler if the participants havent watched it. I wont do it again, sorry. It wasnt bad, no worries.

haha don't worry about it. I'm not sure of the proper etiquette when it comes to discussing other nations' battles, but I'm mostly now too distracted at work to get anything done because I want to see what happened. :p

[samoht]

Well i can say ermor bless on vestals is good, but they definitly cant beat angry ancient giants. Nice battle.

Yeah the vestals don't hit very hard, plus his guys have regeneration. PLUS they have magical weapons which negates the etherealness of the vestals.

[3V4JKZ2]

OH! I was at school all day, but misread it! I thought I lost and was like "God damn it." I thought the line was "Ermor bless on vestals is good, and they definitely beat angry ancient giants." or something like that.

Now I'm home and courageous enough to open my turn file.

[3V4JKZ2]

...fine. Barbarian attack on one of my remaining provinces. Sure.

[samoht]

...fine. Barbarian attack on one of my remaining provinces. Sure.

Yeah I saw that. That really sucked. The game wouldn't let you catch a break, huh?

[3V4JKZ2]

I did take Misfortune 2, so it was probably about time :p

[Executor]

Not sure what that Starspawn was supposed to do? It's going to take you a lot of horror marking to attract some horrors, and nothing short of a doom horror is going to kill my pretender.

I'm sorry to say Arco, but you're going to have to come inside my dominion if you're itching for a fight. Bring that Cyclops too, I could use those items off him.

[legowarrior]

I might have a tough time turning in my turn this Saturday.

[3V4JKZ2]

I'll keep an eye out for the Mictlan stale this Caturday, then.

[Wendigo_reloaded]

Not sure what that Starspawn was supposed to do?


Mostly I was just curious about what countermeassures/script you would go for after the previous experience. The mark was a bonus.

It's going to take you a lot of horror marking to attract some horrors, and nothing short of a doom horror is going to kill my pretender.


No problem then, I will stamp a couple dozen additional marks on him, & you will get many chances to prove your point.:angel

[Executor]

Well I hope you waste your gems... I mean check my countermeasures every turn than! :p

[Korwin]

Whelp!
I need an extension for 4 hours please (to get home from work) and do my turn.

Thanks!

(Hopefully its not to late.)

[Executor]

Arena rematch!

[3V4JKZ2]

Sorry Korwin, missed it. 5 people have sent in turns and thus looked at the turn file. Do I do a roll-back on something like this?

[Ragnarok-X]

Nothing of interest happened to me. I could live with a rollback, if its possible.

[Blubbernaught]

From what I've read elsewhere in the forums, rollbacks can cause corruption of the game files or something, weird problems.

I have no problem with a rollback otherwise, just wanted to point that out in case that is still an issue out there.

[Wendigo_reloaded]

My turn was uneventful, but even so I do not think we should do any rollbacks, they hurt the game stability.

Hopefully the player was not involved in a war, and just lost a turn of recruitment/research adjusting?

[Executor]

Trust me when I say rollbacks are the work of devil and only use one if the very game is at stake. I've personally been in 3 games that were shut down by roll back bugs.

All sort of **** starts to happen if anyone sends in the same turn or doesn't delete that turn before downloading the rollback turn. Commanders turning into units, units becoming commanders, items disappearing, etc.
It's too much of a risk and generally it's only done if it's a game breaking event.
Ask around.

[3V4JKZ2]

Looks like no roll back, sorry Korwin.

I'd like to remind people I'm happy to delay turns if they think they'll get stuck staling.

[Korwin]

Sorry Korwin, missed it. 5 people have sent in turns and thus looked at the turn file. Do I do a roll-back on something like this?

No, I missed it. My fault. No roll-back. (Besides I allready submittet the new turn.)

[samoht]

There is a distinct possibility that I won't be able to submit my file for this turn in time. If its coming down to it and I haven't submitted yet, would people mind a delay of maybe 12 hours?

I'm going out of town on a last minute trip so I don't know how reliable my access to intarwebs will be.

[Korwin]

After confusion about the paperwork, the non agression pact with mictlan gets an additional turn extension.
How do you expect monkeys to count properly?

[samoht]

JUST KIDDING on the turn extension. I'm doing it right now. I should be good to go for this turn.

[3V4JKZ2]

Okies.

Also, I'd like all nations to note the strange unexpected dip in Ermor's army graph.

[samoht]

haha its unexpected and strange if you don't know Ermor is at war and are clueless as to what most of MA Ermor's units are.

I'd also like to note the strange, unexpected, yet smaller dip in Ashdod's army graph that literally cost infinitely more gold than all the units Ermor lost. :p

[legowarrior]

Just to keep everyone posted, I probably won't be online between saturday morning and sunday night. If I can play my turn, I'll try, but I really don't think so.

[Wendigo_reloaded]

I might also have some trouble this Saturday, depending on the time the current turn hosts.

[3V4JKZ2]

Alright, I'll make sure there is a steep weekend delay after this turn goes in.

I'd also like to note the strange, unexpected, yet smaller dip in Ashdod's army graph that literally cost infinitely more gold than all the units Ermor lost.

Those slingers were pretty cheap, but yeah, since you don't use bought troops much, the 500 gold of my troops was indeed more gold than yours probably.

either way, winning a big battle with so few giant losses was exactly what this game called for at this point :-)

[Executor]

Alright, I'll make sure there is a steep weekend delay after this turn goes in.

I'd charge them if I were you. 500 gold for a days delay. Of course I as your manager would get a 10% cut.

[3V4JKZ2]

That'd be clever, but probably unsportsmanly.

[3V4JKZ2]

I added 24 hours to the turn timer. Feel free to not use it if you don't need it.

[legowarrior]

I just go my turn in, but I'll be out for 48 hours, so either this turn or the next, depending on when everyone turns everything in

[legowarrior]

So, what is happening right now? I didn't any emails about a new turn yet.

[Executor]

Request turn resend on Llamaserver.

[3V4JKZ2]

Yep, everyone should request a resend of their own turn on Llama server.

If anyone is going to have trouble with the Sunday to Monday (afternoon/evening) turn, let me know.

[legowarrior]

Okay, so I'm just about ready to offer my first Dwarven hammer up for auction. Do I have any bids at the moment?

[3V4JKZ2]

Oh ****...

I defeated an Ermor army of 200ish horses, and 2 turns later he's throwing 400 at me.

That's kinda not good :p

[Ragnarok-X]

So uh, whats the hold up ? I havent received a turn in 3 days i think ?

[legowarrior]

Ask it to resend it.

[3V4JKZ2]

From my own post at the top of Page 32, Ragnarok


Yep, everyone should request a resend of their own turn on Llama server.

If anyone is going to have trouble with the Sunday to Monday (afternoon/evening) turn, let me know.


You have to request a resend, as you did last time Llama server slowed down. Go to the game link on the first page, then Click "REquest Turn Resend" then select your nation.

I'm adding 12 hours to the clock incase Pythium and Ermor missed this.

[Ragnarok-X]

Send in my turn.

[samoht]

Sorry I was AFK for a couple of days. Did I stale on any of my turns? I got a couple of emails from Llamaserver that confused me.

[3V4JKZ2]

Nope, you're good Samoht; games only stale is still Korwin's T16 and mans early one.

Also, in case anyone missed it, I just killed 54 Mictlan Sacreds...and lost 9 slingers.

Might be time to call it quits and let me take some of my territory back, eh? I'll agree to a ridiculous NAP-6 with Ermor and Mictlan in exchange for my cap ring plus 129. Might give you guys some time to rebuild research and armies and stay in the game, long run...since smashing me is proving a little on the costly and time consuming side, eh?

[legowarrior]

After all the turns are turned in, how long does it take Llamaserver to send out the next turn?

[3V4JKZ2]

5ish minutes, or less.

[legowarrior]

Cool, I'm tempted to turn in last so that I can go twice in a row.

[Ragnarok-X]

Its getting boring for me. Map has too few chokepoints imho.

[samoht]

Its getting boring for me. Map has too few chokepoints imho.

My enthusiasm has also waned, but I think it is directly due to the release of CoE3.

[Executor]

Not fair to get Vastness this early. Can't remember if he's void summoned or a hero.

[Nightfall]

Its getting boring for me. Map has too few chokepoints imho.

Try starting in the middle!!!

:eek:

[legowarrior]

Personally, I found the map very crowded.

[kennoseishin]

Not fair to get Vastness this early. Can't remember if he's void summoned or a hero.

Both, if I recall correctly.

[Nightfall]

Personally, I found the map very crowded.

I think that both this and the boring comment are, frankly, your own fault. It's mostly a function of the right half of the map playing, seemingly, very passively.

If you want more than 12 or 13 provinces your going to have to actually fight someone for them.

The left half has been a serpent's nest in comparison...

[kennoseishin]

I have to agree with Nightfall. 12 provinces per nation always seems crowded at first; at least until a few nations are vanquished. Only then does it get spacious.

[samoht]

Personally, I found the map very crowded.

I think that both this and the boring comment are, frankly, your own fault. It's mostly a function of the right half of the map playing, seemingly, very passively.

If you want more than 12 or 13 provinces your going to have to actually fight someone for them.

The left half has been a serpent's nest in comparison...

Yeah I'm not actually bored with the game at all thanks to being at war since before the first year was over. That helps a lot! :p

CoE3 has just been... distracting. ;)

[legowarrior]

At this moment, I'm happy with the lack of war going on.

[Executor]

At this moment, I'm happy with the lack of war going on.

I'd be happy to send some of my wars your way if you're feeling bored? Perhaps Arco will have you?
Personally, I feel a bit too popular atm. Don't get me wrong, I love all the attention I'm getting but things may be getting out of hand a bit for me. 3 wars in 20 turns tend to do that. This lifestyle doesn't suit me. :)

I can already feel this is going to be a silly turn for me.

Perhaps R'lyeh would be kind enough not to use Vastness for the next say 5 turns to even things out?;)

[legowarrior]

Speaking of peace, anyone want to trade for a Dwarven hammer or Earth Boots? I'm looking for paths boosters, but I'd love to hear some more offers.

[3V4JKZ2]

I'm bumping the quickhost time to 48 hours from here on in, as per the original post. Obviously, if everyone do it quicker, that's awesome.

[Korwin]

That was an embarrasing turn - for me....

[legowarrior]

Still have hammers and other things. A bloodstone will get you two hammers from me. Any water, earth, death, fire or nature booster will get you a hammer as well.

[samoht]

Ugh. Winter was brutal to me this year.

[3V4JKZ2]

I am going to guarantee that I'll have trouble with this weekends turns, so if some time gets arbitrarily added, sorry, that's me.

[Executor]

C'tis looking for a thistle mace. Will pay very generously for one.

[legowarrior]

Sorry, I got nothing like that.
But back to the game, how's everyone doing? Ashod, you hanging in there okay?

[3V4JKZ2]

Turn set, sorry for delays

[legowarrior]

Mad props 3v4jkz2 for staying in the game.

[samoht]

haha well when you have the nice combination of the toughest recruitable units in the game and a plentiful supply of chaff, that makes it a bit easier. :p

[3V4JKZ2]

Oh yeah, I destroyed a Pythium army on the side :p ... haven't opened this turn file, but this one determines another decisive battle.

[legowarrior]

It's quiet here.

[Executor]

It's quiet here.

Well get your turn in so we can start smack talking again!

[legowarrior]

I will when I can. Not my fault people wait till 2:00 AM to turn in there turn.

[kennoseishin]

Well, everything I thought I knew about a major death bless was wrong. Contrary to the manual and a discussion on this forum, it appears to make *all* damage AN if a MR check is failed.

[legowarrior]

Anyone have a fire boost they'd like to trade me? I'll give you a dwarven hammer or something else.

[Executor]

God damn miasma...

[Nightfall]

Well, everything I thought I knew about a major death bless was wrong. Contrary to the manual and a discussion on this forum, it appears to make *all* damage AN if a MR check is failed.

I don't think so, as far as I know a hit from a such blessed unit does...

(Normal damage + 2dice) - (protection + 2dice) for base damage

Plus if the MR check is failed...
2 + 2dice in magic damage (nothing protects)

Every source of damage in the game gets 2 dice added...

[kennoseishin]

Well, everything I thought I knew about a major death bless was wrong. Contrary to the manual and a discussion on this forum, it appears to make *all* damage AN if a MR check is failed.

I don't think so, as far as I know a hit from a such blessed unit does...

(Normal damage + 2dice) - (protection + 2dice) for base damage

Plus if the MR check is failed...
2 + 2dice in magic damage (nothing protects)

Every source of damage in the game gets 2 dice added...

Yeah, the damage formula is (total strength + DRN) - (protection + DRN), but AN attacks just treat protection as 0, so you end up with (total strength + DRN) - DRN. In other words, the defender still gets to roll DRN to reduce AN damage. If this wasn't the case, smites would average 18 damage instead of 10 or so.

But that wasn't the case with your death bless. I watched quite a few replays of your eagle warriors against my prot 14 troops, and there weren't nearly enough "wounding" blows to suggest an AN damage 2 attack; my troops were either fine or they popped.

[Nightfall]

In other words, the defender still gets to roll DRN to reduce AN damage. If this wasn't the case, smites would average 18 damage instead of 10 or so.


Nope, as far as I've seen the defensive DRN adds to protection, it doesn't subtract from damage.

AN or AP is then applied to the total protection value, while I don't pay attention to smite that much, I've certainly noticed this behaviour in fire arrows, AP weapons and fire/death blesses before; It's why they are worth using.

It's also why a bloodletting cabal can be, well, spectacularly fun to use on occasion.

[kennoseishin]

In other words, the defender still gets to roll DRN to reduce AN damage. If this wasn't the case, smites would average 18 damage instead of 10 or so.


Nope, as far as I've seen the defensive DRN adds to protection, it doesn't subtract from damage.

It's simple to test this. Just get a bunch of illithid; their mindblast deals 1 AN+mr damage. If AN allows an opposed DRN roll, then the average damage will be 1; if AN ignores the opposed DRN roll, then the average damage will be around 7. When I checked this for myself, the average damage was indeed around 1.

Which means the death bless causes *all* the damage to be AN+mr, not just the 2 bonus damage.

[Executor]

Ignore...

[Executor]

I need a 24h delay on the turn please.

[3V4JKZ2]

Done.

[Executor]

Oh, so It's like that a Aby?
Well, see, now you've got a problem. I don't really like what you're doing, trying to take advantage of my bad situation.
So I think it's only fair I let you know what's going to happen.

I'm not too optimistic about fighting yet another war so I have no illusions you and Rlyeh will get the better of me in the long run. However, what I am confidant enough about is if I take all my troops and mages and launch a suicide run against you I will kill you.
Now, this will leave all my lands empty and defenseless for Rlyeh but since I can't very well attack Rlyeh I can at least have the satisfaction of adding a third kill to my record. Tighten up your defenses, I'm coming. Good luck to you good sir.


Thanks for the delay

[Blubbernaught]

Probably can, but it looked like the interesting option with the Miasma creeping in anyway, and limited directions for expansion.

Should be interesting either way, played too much a passive game. Lets bleed, eh?

[Executor]

Should be interesting either way, played too much a passive game. Lets bleed, eh?

Indeed.

[Executor]

Greetings and a warm welcome Bandar Log! Would have said hallo sooner but I though I'd make this first contact special and memorable!

[legowarrior]

So, I've decide to sell hammers for those who'd like them again. I seem to have a few lying around. As always, I'll accept most forms of path boosters (especially fire) and any gem genators. Really looking for a bloodstone though. I'll pay well for one of those.

[3V4JKZ2]

If anyone is interested in Ashdod's last stand, send a scout by this turn, I think.

[legowarrior]

So, you still good 3v4jkz2? Need anything before you go?

[3V4JKZ2]

Doing lovely :-)

[legowarrior]

Keep up the good work.

[legowarrior]

So, I'm looking for one of the following items, Blood Stone or Pebble Skin suit. I'll pay well for either of these. For the blood stone, I'll trade an earth, nature or death magic item. (I'll even trade a Skull face or a Treelord's staff for it).

[samoht]

hahaha earthquake was a nice touch!

[3V4JKZ2]

:D

My goal in life is to make sure this isn't easy, and I'm having lots of fun with it.

[samoht]

:D

My goal in life is to make sure this isn't easy, and I'm having lots of fun with it.

Yeah at first I was like "whaaaat is he thinking?" but then I got it. I chuckled. Well played!

[legowarrior]

So, anyone want to trade blood slaves? I'll give you 2 Earth Gems or something similar for 3 Blood Slaves. Looking for 50 or so slaves in the end, and for that amount, I'll give 35 Earth Gems.

[legowarrior]

Also, if Bloodmagic is out, anyone want to trade for Nature magic?

[samoht]

I'm not joking when I say I was contemplating going AI if I hadn't won that battle.

[3V4JKZ2]

:D

That one was fun to watch, to say the least.

[legowarrior]

Ah, all my spies kept dying, so I didn't see it! Oh well.

[samoht]

:D

That one was fun to watch, to say the least.

Do you know how to take a video of the battle replay? It would be cool to post that for people to watch, maybe 20ish turns from now, or when we're both eliminated.

[3V4JKZ2]

I unfortunately don't, though I can save my turn file so people can watch it.

Hah, I just looked at Half of fame...looks like my pretender was responsible for a good chunk of those deaths (400ish + 150 from the previous EQ bomb?)...my prophet and sole remaining banish bot made it, too.

[samoht]

Yeah those earth quakes, in combination with my 5 HP chaff, makes for a lot of dead... undead.

[3V4JKZ2]

You were supposed to kill that scout, Abysia. Not let it take a province :p

[Executor]

You were supposed to kill that scout, Abysia. Not let it take a province :p

Much appreciation for that mate!

[3V4JKZ2]

Wait, did I accidentally blindly cut off an escape route? Epic final move, then.

I'll be looking for someone to take over admining once I get eliminated in another few turns.

[samoht]

Wow. I almost forgot to run my turn. I've had such a busy couple of days.

[3V4JKZ2]

Stole a province with a scout. Proceded to prevent people from taking the province back twice. Booyah.

[kennoseishin]

Could I have a 12 hour extension? Really busy with work.

[kennoseishin]

Nevermind. I managed to get it in in time.

[3V4JKZ2]

And thus ends the Ashdod...though I did have a scout kill an Abysian mage in my last turn, so I do get to be pleased about that.

I am looking for someone to take over administration of this game.

I edited the title as 8/12 remaining in anticipation of Mictlan and C`tis being eliminated.

Well fought Ermor and Mictlan.

[Executor]

I edited the title as 8/12 remaining in anticipation of Mictlan and C`tis being eliminated.



How dare you insinuate such a thing!;)
Looks like I forgot to send my turn in. I was sure I did.
You won't get away with that twice Aby!

[samoht]

Well fought Ermor and Mictlan.

The same to you! I've learned a lot during this game, namely the importance of knowing what spells your national mages can and should use in different contexts, and the importance of research, even if a research lead isn't the crux of your overall strategy. It was fun... and infuriating at times... but mostly fun. :)

[samoht]

From the 6th-9th I will most likely not be able to play any of my turns. I'm going to Puerto Rico for a wedding. What is the best way to handle this?

[legowarrior]

We could just take a break, I have two other games going on, so it doesnt troubleme all that much.

[kennoseishin]

Yeah, I'm fine with just doing an extra-long extension then.

[3V4JKZ2]

I can take this extension, but I just today got a job that will involve me being out of computer range 3-4 days at a time all summer, so I will need a replacement admin.

[Wendigo_reloaded]

Extend the term this weekend while leaving quickhost on, I would say: that way we can get a new turn as soon as Samoht is back.

I will step forward if nobody else's volunteers for the admin task.
I did admin a game once, but never on LLamaserver. Just PM the info. needed when you decide to move on with the change.

Looks like we are entering endgame, with early wars coming to an end & new ones starting.

[legowarrior]

I am curious about the coming turns.

[Wendigo_reloaded]

Game is under new management!

Abysia has staled 2 out of the last 4 turns, and seems to be heading to another stale this turn. Not sure if the player is busy RL or just not interested anymore in the game.

Have mailed him asking. If he does not answer nor show up I guess we should look for a replacement this weekend (prefereably), or at worst turn him AI.

Comments welcomed.

[Wendigo_reloaded]

Samoht played his turn41 on Thursday before leaving, that will allow us to get a turn this weekend: will host t41 on Saturday night and then t42 will be scheduled for Tuesday night, when he is supposed to be back.

Still no answer from Abysia. Will look for a sub tomorrow if no news.

[kennoseishin]

Huh. I'm surprised Abysia's dropped out. It didn't seem like they were doing too badly, and it's a fairly straightforward nation to play. Ah well.

The rest of the schedule sounds great. I appreciate you spreading the turns out instead of just making a single one extra-delayed.

[Wendigo_reloaded]

Yup, always better to space the hostings when dealing with a player temporary absence, than to lose contact with the game for a long period.

This is always a possibility if the player that requested the extension has the deference of playing his turn just before leaving.

[Wendigo_reloaded]

We got a sub: BewareTheBarnacleGoose is taking control of Abysia as of t41.

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Hi All!

Im the Abysia sub. I'm having trouble playing my turn, though- game crashes when I try to play it. Are you guys using any mods I might not have?

EDIT- Nevermind, I had the wrong version of the map. Good to go!

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Ok, my turn is in. Good to be playing with you all!

The...uh, "Abysian Civil War" is over, and new leadership has emerged! We plan to honor any agreements made by the previous regime, but could you remind us what they were? Did we have any NAPs?

[Ragnarok-X]

Well, i can tell you that you have no quarrel with Pythium :D

[legowarrior]

We are cool for now.
Anyway, this vacation is fun, but no one has submitted a turn yet except me. Is there a memo I haven't read yet?

[samoht]

Would it be possible to delay this turn by just a couple of hours? I'm posting this from work. I think I'll probably be able to make it back in time, but it will be close. If it isn't possible, thats fine.

NOT LIKE ITS GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE AT THIS POINT. *glares at TC*

[Wendigo_reloaded]

It's done.

[kennoseishin]

*innocently reading the Dao De Jing*

[3V4JKZ2]

If that chatter reveals that T'ien Chi is swiftly wiping out Ermor, I am pleased :p

[samoht]

Yeah man. I spent too much time focused on you/not really prioritizing my research. Oh well. Live and learn, and then get smashed and start a new game.

Altho on a side note, with the globals TC has up, and with its massive lead in research, I DON'T KNOW WHY MORE PEOPLE AREN'T ATTACKING TC.

It would eliminate the greatest threat to all of us... and help me out of a pickle. ;)

[kennoseishin]

Hey, I'm on a trip and can't access my laptop after all. Could I get a 48h extension on this turn?

[Wendigo_reloaded]

It's done. Try to get it earlier if you can, it's going to be a looong wait otherwise.

[legowarrior]

I'm only attacking cause you attacked me. You reap what you sow, especially when you are big bad undead.

[samoht]

I'm only attacking cause you attacked me. You reap what you sow, especially when you are big bad undead.

Yeah that was kind of a Germany invading France via Holland move on my part. I wanted to get into TC's territory and the quickest way was through that one, isolated province of yours. I wouldn't have wasted the units on it if I had known you were moving guys into it.

Want to e-hug and make up? :D

I still think its kind of silly to ignore the much larger, looming avalanche of a threat that TC poses just to go after me - already being tag teamed - because of one province.

[legowarrior]

It happened. Deal with it.

[samoht]

Thats what I'm sayin. It wasn't anything personal when I took your territory. I took my troops out of it the very next turn. I think you're being pretty short sighted here. TC is vastly more of a long term threat to everybody than I am. Just throwing that out there!

[legowarrior]

You've got little in the way of research and you are being attack by all fronts. I'd rather take on you than be crushed by T'ien C'hi. It isn't personal, it's just logically. Besides you attacked me, T'ien C'hi hasn't, so no matter how you cut it, the dice have been cast. The might of the earth will march against you.

[samoht]

Well with the might of the earth you dig your own grave. Your pale ones will look quite at home next to the bones of our legions.

[Executor]

Actually it isn't logical as this is how big nations win games.
Not that I think TC is too big or powerful for that matter. But you're just eliminating each other and reducing the number of players and resources that would be needed to bring such a nation down. Usually people realize this too late.

[legowarrior]

Sure it is. I'm a very very weak nation (Agatha really does suck outside of CBM) with limited resources, and bordered by a very powerful neighbors. I'm going to have a tough time winning this game, of that there can be no doubt. I could go after T'ien C'hi, but why, so I can let you win? Nah, best bet is to get a few territories out of this war, and hope for some decent Gem Income to go along with my research.
My choices are to lose early or lose late, and I think I prefer to lose late.

[samoht]

You're kind of missing the point. If all of the smaller nations that are surrounding TC decided to gang up on him, we'd eliminate a far more powerful player, gain those resources you want, and ensure a much later time of elimination.

[Executor]

True that. You have no chance of victory and those are your choices. But it's still a bad philosophy, imo at least.
At this point you and a few more players could actually stop that leading nation. (I'm talking general here, not just TC related)
In the process you'll gain some experience, have more fun fighting it out with the big fish, learn some new tricks and perhaps even have the pleasure of eliminating the top contender and stay a bit longer than you would have normally.
The other option is to sit back and rot not really doing anything until that big fish comes to gobble you up, which is usually the case.

I at least love to fight the big ones, even when death is certain, for competitiveness sake.

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

I don't have much investment in this game, since Im only a sub, so I dont care who wins, but I can say that in my experience Executor is right. In my last MP game, I played it safe, and only attacked people who were already losing. The result was that, although I lasted until the end of the game (which was decided by fiat), I never fought a single interesting battle, I was always fighting just fighting PD, or a few weak armies. I think it would have been more fun to have been eliminated sooner, but with a chance to see some action. So everyone be warned, this game Im just looking for a good fight (so thank, C'tis, for bringing it to me ;) !), not to win.

[Nightfall]

I have to chime in and agree...

This game has included some of the worst play I've seen. You should have realised that TC was the main threat and worked out an alliance to attack him as soon as he started generating a lead in gold, gems and research all at once...

The fact that he was doing that originally on a moderate number of provinces should have told you that he had some _really_ valuable sites.

As others have said, you don't learn anything by sitting in a corner all game doing nothing.

[legowarrior]

True I this gane not much is going on but that doesnt mean that I am just sitting around doing nothing. Gies to show you how little you know about what is going on.

[samoht]

Well I for one welcome out new East Asian analogous overlords.

[legowarrior]

Typing on my phone is not the best way to reply on a thread it seems.

[3V4JKZ2]

This game has included some of the worst play I've seen.

Well, it does include the word newbie in the title.

[kennoseishin]

Thanks for your patience everyone; I finally have access to my computer again.

Also, wow. That's quite a heavy discussion that happened while I was gone. I agree with BarnacleGoose pretty much. The whole fun of multiplayer is getting to try out new tactics, though I'm sure Agartha and Pythium will get ample battle experience (Thanks Ermor!).

[samoht]

You're not welcome! :mad:

...

;)

[legowarrior]

Not completely his fault. Still have to wait for Pythium/

[kennoseishin]

Well ouch ouch and ouch. That'll teach me to be stingy with MR. Well scripted samoht!

[Ragnarok-X]

I stalled the turn, great.
Now im back though.

[samoht]

TC, what are you doing?! Use some freakin MR! :p

But seriously, I can't figure out how my tiny little beat up army is beating you, but my armies that actually have units are losing.

[kennoseishin]

lol, indeed. I really shouldn't be rushing turns like that; I keep making errors like sending the wrong gargoyle.

And honestly, I think that's bugging me just as much as it's bugging you. It's like watching two teams with strong offense but poor defense.

[kennoseishin]

Bandar Log had zero research this turn? o.O

[legowarrior]

All I can say is FINALLY!

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Sorry about the stale, I lost power for two days.

[Executor]

Kamikazieeeeeeeeeee!!!!!

[Ragnarok-X]

So, what are we gonna day, Executor ? You wanne come around ?
I was hoping for some more variation in your huge army :P

[legowarrior]

All I can say is FINALLY!

I cracked that castle Ermor. Now that I have it.... I'm stuck.

[Executor]

What goes around comes around.
Well it was a diverse little army but we've had mutiny almost every step of the way so now only those true of heart and purpose remain.

[Wendigo_reloaded]

This game has included some of the worst play I've seen.

Well, it does include the word newbie in the title.

I do not think he was talking about the new players here.

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Sorry again, this time I had no internet. Hopefully no more problems!

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Acro, what's up? Are we at war? Were we at war before I started subing? What's with the whole siegeing my castle thing?

[kennoseishin]

I am so confused. I though undead melted without undead leadership, but ermorian undead horsemen are apparently unaffected? Such a waste of seeking arrows.

[samoht]

I am so confused. I though undead melted without undead leadership, but ermorian undead horsemen are apparently unaffected? Such a waste of seeking arrows.

I haven't checked the turn file yet, but its possible you attacked a province that still had some mound kings in it. They look identical to undead horsemen.

Or maybe I hax...

[kennoseishin]

Oh, it was totally hax :p. Here's the screenie http://prntscr.com/8kw8p And the only province defense you had there didn't have undead leadership.

[legowarrior]

As long as he has Pd that can command undead he should be fine.

[Ragnarok-X]

I have to say playing without CBM was a grave mistake. So many ****in useless spells, and then so many ****in broken things (like, 20 air gems per turn, regardless of who is benefiting)

[Wendigo_reloaded]

I have to say playing without CBM was a grave mistake. So many ****in useless spells, and then so many ****in broken things (like, 20 air gems per turn, regardless of who is benefiting)

CBM has its own balance issues, and a serious lack of documentation regarding its changes.

What has happened in this game that you think would have been totally different in a CBM game? If that global bothers you so much, you have the magic & the gems to dispel it, and there are other options. How is that different in CBM? It's not even a game wining global.

Also, Pythium is a magic powerhouse: at this stage of the game you should have plenty of powerful spell options.

[legowarrior]

Well, I'm not a huge fan of vanilla myself, but that is because Agatha is really handicapped, and I dislike gen generators, but I'm going to stick this game out till someone crushes me.

[Wendigo_reloaded]

Well, I'm not a huge fan of vanilla myself, but that is because Agatha is really handicapped, and I dislike gen generators, but I'm going to stick this game out till someone crushes me.

I will not give an opinion on how strong Agartha is as I do not know the newer nations as well as the classic ones, but you did get to choose at the start.

IMO, the deciding factors in this game have been, to date, the agressiveness/willingness to win (or lack of) of the players, diplomacy & battlefield prowess, in that order.

Gem generators have not given TC his current lead, the above factors did.

[legowarrior]

Ah well, after being in two CBM games, and this, I know what my choice in the future will be. I'm just having a lot more fun in the Newb game with CBM than I am in vanilla.

[Wendigo_reloaded]

Heh, I meant choice of nations, not games. But if you always play Agartha I am cool with that. I also play only a handful of nations.

[Nightfall]

but that is because Agatha is really handicapped, and I dislike gen generators

One of the most effective ways to play Agartha is a bloodstones strat in vanilla... you don't need to, and probably shouldn't, go full blood, just enough to forge one bloodstone a turn.

Also, Pythium is a magic powerhouse: at this stage of the game you should have plenty of powerful spell options.

Yeah, that was one of the most clueless complaints I've ever seen; espescially since CBM makes controlling the gemgen globals even more important.

[Ragnarok-X]

lol ? I know i can dispel the enchants just fine, but i feel allied to TC, so i wont. What you consider clueless is just a GENERAL complain. I dont care if TC wins someone else does, unbalanced is still unbalanced.

[kennoseishin]

Unexpected RL stuff; can I get an emergency extension?

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Wow, those imps let me down. Just lost like 6 hordes from hell in the same turn!

[Wendigo_reloaded]

Unexpected RL stuff; can I get an emergency extension?

I'm sorry I couldn't see this. I notice that you did not stale, even if maybe it was not your best shot.

For future extension requests please notice everyone that I am in European time zone (GMT+1), and usually I get up at 6:00am, which basically means that any message past 10:00pm will likely not be seen until the day after.

Alternatively, you might try contacting the previous admin as I have not changed his original password.

Sorry again.

[kennoseishin]

It's no problem Wendigo. I don't expect you to check your messages 24 hours a day :P I'm just glad I was able to get a turn in on time.

[Ragnarok-X]

Goddamn i stalled again. I always forget the turn is due one hour after it was processed. damn. Im very sorry.

[legowarrior]

So, the games afoot.

[kennoseishin]

Ugh. I'll have to ask for a 24h extension; I'm swamped with work.

[samoht]

I'd like to second that extension. I only need about 12 hours, but 24 hours would work just as well.

It would at least *sniff* keep me in the game longer... :(

[Wendigo_reloaded]

Already extended it this morning.

[samoht]

So those lammashtas backfired. Ouch. :p

GG errbody. It has been fun. I'm not going to say good luck to TC, because at this point I don't think he needs it. But good luck to everybody else. You did a great job playing kingmaker, so at this point I think you'll need a LOT of luck.

[legowarrior]

HAVE you seen Ryleh.

[legowarrior]

Also I might need an extention. I have my wifes birthday on sunday so I need till monday.

[Wendigo_reloaded]

Extended.

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Urgent!

I have to do some unexpected work-related travel from the 16th to the 19th. That's a too long for an extension, so does anyone think they could help find a sub?

Also, does anyone here want to help me sub in PowerBeyondComprehension? C'mon, it will be fun! Life and death struggle as Rlyeh vs Atlantis!!

[Wendigo_reloaded]

Have been considering for a while to increase the hosting interval to 72h. We have already had plenty of extension requests lately, so we could as well start with the following turn.

In that case, hosting would roughly be 14->17->20, which might allow you to get your turns in without any sub/stale.

On a related note, I will be travelling overseas around the end of this week/early next week. Will try to match the pace of the game, but note everyone I will not be able to keep a close eye on this thread, so try to plan ahead if you might need an extension.

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Great, I think that would be for the best. And if I do stale, Im not to worried. Acro will know what to do ;)

[legowarrior]

I have to take a trip soon. Could we move to a 72 hour schedule for the short term. I promise that I'll be so close to dead soon that I might just go AI in about 5-6 turns. Sooner if some gets there act together.

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Ok, im back! Thank you for your patience!

[Ragnarok-X]

Can we turn on quickhosting, please.

[Wendigo_reloaded]

It's back on. Turned it off temporarily during the weekend so as to have a predictable hosting time while being away.

[Ragnarok-X]

Did anyone stall the last turn ? When i send mine (20 minutes early), 4 nations hadnt submitted yet.

[Anaconda]

Did anyone stall the last turn ? When i send mine (20 minutes early), 4 nations hadnt submitted yet.

Not my game but FYI every1 can check stallers when ever they want. Choose the game link on Llama, click admin options and then "show stalling data" or smthng like that.

[Ragnarok-X]

Agartha and TienChi both stalled. This is troubling at this point. Not so much about Agartha, who was dead anyway according to his own message, but TC shouldnt stall at this point.

[Wendigo_reloaded]

I am back.

legowarrior: Sorry I missed your message when I quickly scanned the thread while being away. We have already been running on the 72h schedule for the last 3 turns anyway, so no damage done.

Ragnarok-X: Indeed. Arco has been irregular in the past, but this was the first stale turn for TC & Agartha. Agartha took some heavy losses a couple turns ago, but TC had just launched his offensive this past turn, and the last thing I would have expected is an attack followed by a stale turn. Want to comment guys?

[legowarrior]

YeH, I going Ai soon, after I make a few arrangements. No time for the game at present and no need to get a sub.

[Ragnarok-X]

Unless TC shows up, i think the game is done and we call Ryleh the Winner.

[Ragnarok-X]

Admin should end the game. TC stalled again.

[Wendigo_reloaded]

Seen it.

Oh well, I was hoping I would get a few more endgame battles. Anybody else wants to chime in? Otherwise will end the game tomorrow.

Thank you everyone for playing. I had a lot of fun, re-used some old tricks, and learned a couple new ones. Hope everyone got something positive from the game.

Will post tomorrow some words on my build & how the game evolved from my perspective.

[Ragnarok-X]

Sure thing, ill be interested in that.

Good game at least in my noobish eyes.

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Sounds good to me! Good playing with you guys!

[legowarrior]

Had fun guys. Hope you all did too.

[Wendigo_reloaded]

About me: I am a veteran from the times of Dominions PPP. I played my first game in 2001, and have played with some of the guys that helped in the development of Dom3 (Gandalf Parker -still active here-, Jasper Phillips, Jacques Vidal…we even had one of the Johans in a game once, I guess we were a small community back then). I was not that active in the times of Dom2, and have played very little Dom3. Thus I have a reasonably good knowledge of the mechanics of the game & the original nations, and a much weaker knowledge of what has been added afterwards. This reflects in my nation & tactics choices.

In this game I went with a 2F,2A,1W,4E,4S,5N dormant Void Lurker, with 3order/sloth/cold/luck/magic & neutral growth. Dominion 6 IIRC.

This is a very strong long term build. Other good pretenders for R’lyeh are the Ancient Kraken & the Wyrm, but with no other water nations in the game the Kraken was unnecessary, and as I had no intention of rushing any landlubbing newbies early on, I did not either need the early amphibian power of an awake Wyrm.
The Void Lurker has cheap additional paths, and once teleport & a few buffs are researched he can actually destroy armies on his own with up to 4 damage shields, but mostly he stays away from battle, provides some minor blesses & opens magic paths I might otherwise have trouble getting into.

Fire & water (with a water bracelet) give me rune smashers. Earth gives dwarven hammers. Nature allows searching for Kelp forts underwater, and lets me GoR a Vastness as soon as it shows up. 5N might be too much, it allows for an earlier Gift of health, Faerie Court & Gift of Nature’s Bounty, but just 4N and either 1growth, 2W or increased dominion would have been solid alternative choices.

The minor E & N blesses synergize well with Vastnesses, Greater Othernesses & Formless Spawn from the Void Gate. Starspawn mages can also be equipped with shrouds, which increase their survivability & casting time for little cost, and the bless bonus to morale helps with their morale issues when fighting in enemy dominion.

Regarding the scales: 3order, sloth & cold are pretty much standard for R’lyeh, 3 luck is there for the increased chance of getting Void critters (and the better quality of these). 3 magic provides a research bonus, is also the equivalent of equipping each Starspawn with a built in spell focus when fighting in home dominion, & results in reduced fatigue from spellcasting. Mind hunts vs raiders are also stronger.
R’lyeh finest are its big three: Starspawn mage, Starspawn priest & Starchild, so the above benefits from a 3magic dominion are a key part of the build. The military is kind of weak, and although some of the troops have niche uses, it is the mages that win or lose for R’lyeh. This has been a constant since the times of Dominions PPP.

TheAscensionWars game combined players with a huge spread of experience levels, and because of that my first objective was to fight for the victory while avoiding attacking the newbies for as long as possible.

My second objective was to achieve a competitive endgame without forging a single clam. Back when the clam fever & discussion started, circa 2003 in Dom II, I was in the camp of players that favoured using the gem income aggressively, rather than turtling up & clamming. I can see how investments with a RoI of 15 or so turns can be profitable in long games when facing passive opponents (or even decisive with a construction bonus), but that’s not always the case.

I expanded with crab hybrids & illithids initially. But the seas in this map are pretty poor, with none of them being above 10k population in this game, as opposed to some grasslands & coastal provinces in the 15-20k range, so my expansion was middle of the pack at best.

C’tis started just 2 provinces South of me, and we were eyeing each other for a while. His Prince of Death was a tough nut to crack this early in the game and by turn11 he was sieging Man. With him this near & around a 60% bigger than me I had very little chance of expanding inland to the South, and I was suffering miasma, death & misfortune in some seas. I needed to stop him before he became too big and gained too much territory inland, but I was too small to do that.

Come turn14 I was nº7 in income, far from stellar. I also had dominion issues, with 3 Dom10 nations around the seas, and one of them with an awake pretender, so I built 5 temples, placing them in the seas bordering nations that were already engaged in wars.

This was a key turn: My pretender awakened, my Void summoner found a Vastness, I researched thaumaturgy 3, & C’tis PoD attacked a coastal province in the east with a local population of shamblers & atlantian spears. I took this as an offensive move (getting a province he could recruit amphibian troops from), and noticed two very important facts: the PoD was in enemy dominion & had no retreat path!

I immediately prepared a teleport squad of 5 Starspawn mages scripted to cast Spirit curse, 5xTwist fate & 16xSolar rays. With 6-8 Solar rays the PoD should either die or rout (and with no province to retreat to, routing would also mean death). There were 2 incognita however: his script & whether he would have recruited troops/pd, or not. Up until this turn, my scouts had seen him using a script consisting of air shield, attack. This meant that from the 2nd round onwards he would be in range, so I decided to place my mages backwards, which would leave them time to retreat/cast returning and survive the local defense. This was a mistake. C’tis upgraded his script to air shield, mistform, mirror image & attack this same turn, so my mages were out of range for most of their script & only 5 Solar rays hit the Pretender, resulting in 2 afflictions, but he survived.

Thus started the war with C’tis. I also spoke with Arco, who was in C’tis natural path of expansion, and started raiding the coastal provinces.

By turn19 I GoRed my Vastness, and Spaceballs was born. I did not expect her to survive until the endgame, yet she did, and performed as a very profitable wildcard: raiding, destroying armies in the open with no mage support, and even killing enemy SCs when buffed up. Spaceballs did it all.

By turn 23, disaster struck: Spaceballs got diseased by miasma when raiding C’tis capitol, and C’tis killed Arco’s pretender & main army. Arco, being a new player, had been out-manoeuvred by C’tis, who slipped an army past him & sieged the capital. Arco’s relief attack failed, and with nobody inside he lost the fort to the besieging army.

I decided to hide the diseased Vastness, already down to 40 hps, and sacrificed my prophet to appoint her instead (so that regeneration would stop the hp drain).

By turn 28 C’tis was the most visible threat in the game, already controlling 3 capitals and with Arco almost dead. Abysia & Bandar Log attacked him, but Bandar Log fell back as soon as the PoD showed up. Despite the size difference with C’tis, I was still pretty safe in the seas, with my cold dominion & mages being quite of a deterrent for a cold blooded land nation.

In the NE, Ashod was almost dead after being attacked by Ermor & Mictlan, while Mictlan was dying to Tien Chi & Bandar Log.

By turn 30 Spaceballs became my prophet, and I redoubled the raids vs the coastal provinces with small teams of etherealized thralls. C’tis concluded he could not win this war in the long term, and decided to instead pillage & overtax his backyard, while taking most of his main mage force in a rampage.

The PoD finally died to a Soul Slay, and after that there was little left to defend C’tis capitol (already down to 2k pop), so I took it by turn 37 with an army of Sea trolls, Undead, Void critters & Starpawn equipped with rings of poison resistance. The teleporting Vastness & Starspawn mopped up the forces remaining after this.

By this time I was leading in provinces, yet well behind in income (with half of my lands depopulated, suffering unrest in the 200 range, and under miasma dominion of death & misfortune), I was also behind in gems & research. TC was comfortably leading in all the above, with Ermor & Bandar Log being roughly 2nd and 3rd in size, except that Ermor had very poor research.

Up until this point, the 4 nations in the NE (Tien Chi, Bandar Log, Agartha & Pythium) had been cooperating, and their collaboration had not flattered despite some players pointing out that TC was benefiting the most from this agreement.

By turn 40 TC offered me a NAP. I had until this moment refrained from signing any such agreements, mostly because I did not need them, feeling pretty secure in the seas. But this time I accepted. The reason being that such offer could only mean that TC was preparing to attack Ermor. As the 4 nations in the NE were allied, if I rejected the offer I would be the one attacked instead, by at least TC & Bandar Log, and maybe even by Ermor. If I accepted, I could as well end the NAP as soon as TC hit, and fight 2vs2 rather than 1vs2 or 1vs3.

Thus I accepted, and watched. But Agartha & Pythium entered TCs war vs Ermor pretty soon, which complicated things. I was pretty sure that as soon as Ermor fell, I would be next in line. I kept in touch with Ermor during this time, and it was obvious from our talks that he would not last long. Meanwhile, I pushed my dominion into the South & searched the lands heavily, increasing my gem income & uncovering a -20% enchantment site. I used this site to cast Gift of Health in order to cure my Vastness & other diseased troops & commanders, and also Stellar Focus.

At this point I contacted Bandar Log with the most rational offer: he was currently number 2 & me number 3, we could launch a joint attack vs the leading TC, and fight each other for the game afterwards. Yet no answer came: BL stayed loyal to his ally. Faced with this, my options were:
-Attack TC, and end up fighting vs both TC & Bandar Log, and maybe even Agartha & Pythium also.
-Attack Arco & Abbysia in the South, who were small & would fall easily, but this went against my purpose of no aggressive play vs newbies.
-Sit on my ***, and wait for sure death.
-Attack Bandar Log, who was at this time bigger than me in both income & research, yet smaller in gems. I could do this using TCs NAP against him, and maybe deal a blow hard enough that I would be in a stronger position once the war with TC started. It was all a matter of hoping that Ermor would bleed TC more than BL would bleed me. Also, I wanted to remove BL’s 9astral Oracle before the endgame.

By turn 47 I attacked Bandar Log:
He had a mostly missile army sieging the last Mictlan fort & preaching the 20 defending mages away, and I hit that with a host of etherealized & arrow fend protected HI. A second army hit the province behind cutting the retreat path. A Rudra in the open went down to mind hunt, and Spaceballs teleported on the capital, sieging it. I used teleport rather than normal movement because I also cast 2xWolven winter this turn on the province, and I wanted to be the one getting the event message: if he was not paying close attention, this would hide the fact I was changing the weather scale in the province to blast his Rishis with Murdering Winter the following turn. A couple other provinces were also taken by raiders.

In one turn BL lost a third of his forces. During the following turns any armies in the open were killed, and BL barricaded inside his forts. I started storming these, mostly using Mass Flight from some Faerie Queens summoned by my Pretender.

By turn 50, what remained of C’tis rampaging Marshmasters turned my way, but at this point in the game there was not much they could do vs communion boosted Basnishment & Nether darts, particularly as I had prepared the battlefield with Wolven Winter.

Some Elemental royalty was summoned, and a Mound Fiend first, and a Demilich afterwards settled up in a fort taken from BL with a Thaumaturgy 20% discount site, which was bound to be my Tartarian Factory (because of the cheaper Gift of Reason). I also planned to hit TCs capitols from here with Black Death, but the game ended before all this.

By the time TC canceled his NAP, BL was already down to just a few forts under siege. The big question here was whether I would be able to take BL’s capitol & kill the Oracle before being attacked, or not. Also, Agartha was on the move through TC lands.

By turn 58 Agartha attacked a fort of mine that was very lightly defended (some hybrid freespawn & some sages, plus a Sea King I had just flown inside, Agartha breached that same turn. His army consisted of his PoD Pretender, 20 or so mages, an Earth King, a marble Oracle, various equipped thugs, trolls, sea trolls & HI.

I conversely breached BLs capitol at the same time, and had to plan thus 2 heavy-duty battles. The one at BL I had already prepared, and had in place everything I needed. The fort defence I had to improvise, but when you are R’lyeh, the core of your mage force is just a few astral gems away.

In the fort defence vs Agartha, chaff & Ice elementals held the gate long enough for my Vastness & Sea King to buff, and while the Sea King almost died to frozen hearts (he overrode his script of casting Breath of Winter, so he had no cold resistance), they both held fine while Nether darts & Gifts from Heaven massacred the attackers. Meanwhile, Grip of winter put most of the attacking force to sleep. All the Agartha army got destroyed, save for an Earth King, a Troll King & 2 Oracles that the Starspawn enslaved during the rout.

In the Battle of Bandar Log the main problem was surviving the first turn Master Enslave. Battle formations consisted on 30 sea trolls up front (to draw the Enslave minds, Charms & evocations from the defenders), Lobo guards (on guard duties mostly, in case of wolves), air elementals (from Aella) & Formless Spawn. Of the above, only the trolls were non mindless, every other trooper was immune to mind spells and my meteorite guards did not even take part in the attack.
The mages formed up behind the trolls: Starspawn mages & priests, and 3 Faerie Queens with crystal shields & AAM. Finally, 18 or so communion slaves.
My army survived the initial Master enslave losing only a few trolls, and immediately casting Antimagic & other buffs. Wrathful skies, Grip of winter & Air elementals killed the defending BL mages, and the fort got conquered.

This turn apparently sealed the game: Agartha announced he would be going AI in short time, while TC launched his attack in turn 59, but apparently lost faith & staled the turn after.

This turned out longer than I expected, hope you enjoyed the tale.

Been a pleasure, and good luck in future games!

[Executor]

Thanks for the review of the game. I was certain you'd win after you took my lands. Did send an in game PM to Arco, Aby and BL on my way out suggesting they should team up against you but for what ever reason that didn't happen.
Actually I think Arco attacked Aby?
That was kinda hilarious from my perspective.

Anyway, I don't normally burn and pillage my own lands. But I did manage to get into battle with 5 different nations by turn 20ish, and with you being a water nation that was the only option I had to hurt you in any way. Actually, I'm surprised those who attacked me didn't realize they were being used. ;)

Congrats on the win.

[Anaconda]

May I inquire what scripting you used with Vastness early on, and then later on, and did you empower him with any paths at all?

[Wendigo_reloaded]

Executor: Players tend to stick to their likes/dislikes/enemy/ally in their games, often beyond what would be their current best interest.

How does that quote go?, something like: "England doesn't have friends or enemies, England has interests". Was that Margaret Thatcher?. But this is high politics! You need some serious experience before detaching yourself from those personal feelings & committing fully to winning the game.

Arco was basically dead for a while: dead Pretender & lost capitol, so it's not too unsurprising that he fooled a bit afterwards. He should be commended for keeping playing on under such circumstances.

Anaconda:
Early on: Personal luck, Astral Shield & fire closest.

Surviving the initial rounds of engagement is the hard part, with your defence down from spell fatigue, that's why you are blasting closest. Afterwards, when regen & reinvig kick in and half of the troops around you are paralyzed, you get your hps back while blood vengeance does its job.

If hitting an army you need an accompanying priest to bless the Vastness (usually the national hero) with a bless, returning script (this part is expensive in gems for mere raiding).
Also, always hit & run, with your script while running back home being Returning+whatever.

Even so, you might fall into a trap, so do not get too attached.

Later on, when prophetized: Resist magic, Astral shield & either fire or attack (include Personal luck if solo, otherwise have another mage cast Luck. Also have someone else cast quickness & a protection spell like iron warriors if facing another SC)

For some mischief, the Vastness can be given Fire Rear orders.

This is Spaceballs by turn 60, with Unequalled Obesity & Gift of Health in a Dom9 province:

11895

Not empowered. I guess you could empower in Astral or Fire in a really big game, but how many gems are you willing to pile on a single critter? you could as well wish for more Vastnesses with them.

[Ragnarok-X]

That is some vast vastness indeed.