BSoD (Newbie, LA, CBM 1.92) [Started!]

[Legendary League]

The only reason I know the movie is because of Mock Trial.

[HoleyDooley]

Never say that one.

Will also try and check it out.

[Legendary League]

Never say that one.

Will also try and check it out.
No, as in college mock trial. ;)

A Few Good Men is always good. If you can handle the truth.

[HoleyDooley]

Oh mate....A few...is a REALLY good film.

Every cast member gave one of their best performances.

I wish Tom would do more films like that and Collateral Damage, where he shows just how good an actor he is. Plus they are great movies in their own right.

When he does crap like Mission Improable (lol) just gives critics plenty of ammunition to say how ordidnary he is, and in those types of movies, he IS ordinary.

But a Few G M had an incredible cast, from the Judge down to Toms assistant to the defence counsel. Plus they all did a great job. Demi was even good in her role.

Truly a great court room drama, and being ex an naval officer, I luv stuff that involves the military, specially the navy.

The only time I can't "handle the truth" is when i watch a replay of some huge battle and I get my arse whipped, then i quickly check the messages to see if it gives a different result, you know, "the bug". Unfortunately the truth has always stared me in the face, and I can't handle IT!!!!!!!!!!

[Russian_Comrade]

Well, Tom Cruise played one role that was really awesome. I'm speaking about Les Grossman from Thropic Thunder.
First, take a big step back... and literally, *CENSORED* YOUR OWN FACE! I don't know what kind of pan-pacific *CENSORED* power play you're trying to pull here, but Asia Jack is my territory. So whatever you're thinking, you'd better think again! Otherwise I'm gonna have to head down there and I will rain down in a Godly *CENSORED* firestorm upon you! You're gonna have to call the *CENSORED* United Nations and get a *CENSORED* binding resolution to keep me from *CENSORED* destroying you. I'm talking about a scorched earth, *CENSORED*! I will massacre you! I WILL *CENSORED* YOU UP!

In the other news...

Mwahahahahahaha.
*ahem*
MWAhahahahaHAHAha!
*ahem*
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Evil laughter surely gets better with practice. Also, laughter is the best medicine! So evil laughter is like the best evil medicine. In other word, it is like the best drug - and with no side effects.

[Knai]

R'lyeh is down. Next turn I go AI, as I'm down to income 0, harmless free chaff, and my capital, which is scripted for a last stand. Good job to Ermor's coalition, and good game.

[mattyburn7]

Thanks for coming in and subbing in a tough spot. See you over in Stumble!

[Legendary League]

I believe I need to clear up some misconceptions as to Marignon's stance on the foreign stage:

No, I am not part of Ermor's coalition. In fact, I have had absolutely no contact with the land of the cursed dead this entire game. I don't know why anyone thought that in the first place.

I won't, however, roll over and die for Bogarus, who so wantonly attacked my lands, raping and pillaging as he went. There is a distinct difference.

[mattyburn7]

We have merely entered Marignon as peacekeepers. To prevent the atrocities being committed to the Bogarussians in the Marignon lands.

really its true.
No seriously. It is true.

In fact we pay the Marignon merchants Double their asking price for their goods.

[Legendary League]

We have merely entered Marignon as peacekeepers. To prevent the atrocities being committed to the Bogarussians in the Marignon lands.

really its true.
No seriously. It is true.

In fact we pay the Marignon merchants Double their asking price for their goods.
Where to begin.

First, there were no Bogarussians in Marignon at the time of the invasion. This inventive lie is quite tiresome at this point.

Also, if by double their asking price you mean savagely raiding their caravans and supplanting them with Bogarussian merchants, then it would be accurate.

Which you probably didn't, mind.

[HoleyDooley]

Thx Knai, subbing is always difficult and your efforts are appreciated.

[Russian_Comrade]

Hm. I just lost my turn. Strange...
Well, poor me.

[Russian_Comrade]

BTW, Knai played pretty big role in this game. His intervention helped Abysia pretty well... And Knai really used all of his limited resources and used them smart.

[mattyburn7]

That's good to hear. He's a good guy. Glad he came in and gave it all he had.

[Shardphoenix]

Ermor`s... Coalition? OH SHI~

[Legendary League]

Ermor`s... Coalition? OH SHI~
Yeah, its a shame, but somehow Ermor has put together a coalition. I'd be working against it, normally, but I'm in sort of a bad position to do anything about it.

Though I stress that I am not part of it, and merely in this game to either retake my lands etc. or make matty pay for every turn he spends in my lands.

How has it been going thus far matty? Like the new global? Sure your commanders are loving it, sitting in my dom10 provinces. And I'm going to start blood sacrificing in my capital too, so enjoy. :p

[mattyburn7]

You are a hospitable host. Every day demons come around offering snacks and drinks.

Of course I have been on record multiple times trying to rally support against the prince of death but others have made a habit of untrue and horrible propaganda against the peace-loving Bogarussians.

[revenant2]

You are a hospitable host. Every day demons come around offering snacks and drinks.

Of course I have been on record multiple times trying to rally support against the prince of death but others have made a habit of untrue and horrible propaganda against the peace-loving Bogarussians.

So the only thing that the demon worshiper and the war-monger can agree on is that Bone Daddy's nation of peace-loving zombies should be destroyed because we're too evil? That's great. It fills the void where his heart use to be with joy knowing that he's helping people overcome their differences.

Pardon Bone Daddy while he gets back to torturing some Abysian prisoners. They have the most delightful, high-pitched screams.

[parone]

lots of things are happening out there while lazarus, king of what's left of c'tis, cowers in his castle, watching ulm marshal her masses. maybe it's good to be cooped up in here...it sound dangerous in the big wide world!

[Shardphoenix]

So, who`s a part of this coalition?

[parone]

can i join the coalition? i have a bunch of undead tomb chariots. i'll be an honorary member, since i have no ability to actually effect anything...

[Russian_Comrade]

I'm alright with that.
You must eat some babies every day, of course!

Once I tried to lead the crusade against Ermor - because I thought that they corrupt mortal flesh and this flesh becomes not-so-tasty.
But now, it is all so clear.
Bones are even more delicious than flesh! Even bone marrow is soooo old-school. Bone-gnawing is the new way~!

[HoleyDooley]

Come on board parone, I've joined the club.

Its a sad end to what should have been an exciting late game......unfortunately.

[Russian_Comrade]

As I said you before, I'm thinking it is to early for you to do this. You've got at least 7 Zmey's and fire gem generator. You've got lots of mages and most of the territory untouched.

[HoleyDooley]

Thats enough to fight and hold you or Ermor, but not enough to do both.

I am getting weaker, and I mean seriously weaker each turn, Ermor is getting stronger, seriously stronger each turn.

When I ran that maths through my calculator the answer wasn't pretty.

[parone]

i think i am going to be dead in about 3 turns. i want to be the head of the coalition. i am going to be issuing a lot of orders to abysia, ermor and a bunch of imaginary armies henceforth(i don't expect any of them to be listened to).

i order the launch of the mortain counter offensive!!!

[mattyburn7]

Mortain...Nice!

Hold on C'tis. This game has so many bizarro twists you may be there at the end!

Now - Let's see how many assassins I face this coming turn. LOL.

[parone]

im not going anywhere!!! shardphoenix will have to fight his way into my capital over my dead bodies. i mean, my undead chariots. i mean, he'll have to kill my undead(an interesting question, were there really undead, and you killed them, would a double negative apply, i.e. would that make them alive, vis a vis mathematic principles? this is not an actual question...are you still reading?)

i must say, shard has administered the most thorough bitc* slapping to me over the last 20 turns that i have ever received. i think my record on battles vs him is about 4-109.

but i'm still here! come get me phoenix(and by the way, who came up with the spelling for that word? phoenix? fenix, really.)

[Legendary League]

Going have to give myself a postponement (since my laptop is refusing to reboot and has been in startup repair for 24 hrs as of now). I can't say for how long, unfortunately, but even if I don't get it fixed, I'll eventually get ahold of a laptop I can download Dom3 on again and convert that and any necessary files onto a flashdrive.

[Shardphoenix]

i must say, shard has administered the most thorough bitc* slapping to me over the last 20 turns that i have ever received.Yeah, Iron Blizzard is pretty brutal against troop-based armies. Not so good against heavy thugs, though.

[parone]

it's funny shard. my guys wade through waves of iron, just about get to you, then flee. i can't say i blame them. of course, the tomb chariots keep coming, but i need to deploy them 700 at a time, and that has become problematic in my reduced condition.

on the plus side, i set a new record for summoning dead pretenders in this game(i think i did it 3 times)

[revenant2]

Going have to give myself a postponement (since my laptop is refusing to reboot and has been in startup repair for 24 hrs as of now). I can't say for how long, unfortunately, but even if I don't get it fixed, I'll eventually get ahold of a laptop I can download Dom3 on again and convert that and any necessary files onto a flashdrive.

Bone Daddy could always use more time to work on his evil plans, so take as much time as you need.

[parone]

bone daddy! as i am now in charge of the coalition, i order you from my bunker which is surrounded my ulmish zmeys and priests and what not to...to...to...make me an omelete!

[parone]

abysia, i mean hooley. whatever. lazarus, the usually dead pretender, orders you to toast me some marshmellows!

[revenant2]

bone daddy! as i am now in charge of the coalition, i order you from my bunker which is surrounded my ulmish zmeys and priests and what not to...to...to...make me an omelete!

Bone Daddy is in his own bunker, surrounded by several hundred ghouls, shade, and other assorted uglies (and a decidedly out-of-place and nervous looking Naiad) and further surrounded by a concentric ring of fortresses in a barren, lifeless wasteland that stretches hundreds of miles in every direction. We're not going anywhere -- especially with Bone Daddy's fishing injury slowing him down, which he got after he was eaten by a fish in Skyfall lake.

We'd mail you an omelet, but we don't have any eggs -- or postman for that matter (we ate the last one awhile back). We have some left-over monkey hair, which can be boiled if you don't mind the smell although it doesn't go down real easy -- and this is coming from someone who doesn't have a nose and thinks eating half-rotten corpses is a delicacy.

[parone]

very well. send me some monkey hands. and also some spokes for my chariots. i demand that one of my sauromancers design a jet bomber that can traverse the atlantic...eva, bring me some more low grade amphetamines! hurry

[revenant2]

very well. send me some monkey hands. and also some spokes for my chariots. i demand that one of my sauromancers design a jet bomber that can traverse the atlantic...eva, bring me some more low grade amphetamines! hurry

Bone Daddy has a spoke right here for you.

[parone]

lol

[Russian_Comrade]

You need to demand an all-out assault from your generals. Than you need to shout on them. Loudly.

[Shardphoenix]

You need to demand an all-out assault from your generals. Than you need to shout on them. Loudly.
I thought, lizards don`t have a moustache?:p

[parone]

HA! our zmey killer group claimed a victim!!! of course we lost a 100 units in the process...

also, i finally figured out why my SC won't move into battle(this has been a problem for like 15 turns) i had so many serpent body guards, they had him blocked in!! i messed with his scripts and tried to figure it out, but this was the answer.


how dumb am i, really? :doh:

[HoleyDooley]

Learning you are, young Padawan.

[parone]

hooley, have you ever seen the commercial where they are trying to get yoda to be the voice on a mobile gps? i don't even know how you would search for it, but it is hilarious.

[HoleyDooley]

No mate, but I'll check out youtube now.

[HoleyDooley]

LOL... Too funny.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdcJVuylmsM

[revenant2]

Bone Daddy has been devoting the awesome force of his fiendish intellect to the destruction of his many mortal enemies. However, due to the ever-increasing size of his vast hordes and number of diabolical plans he has in motion, it might be difficult for us to maintain a 48-hour pace with the same evil standards everyone has grown accustomed too.

Would it be possible to increase the hosting interval to 60-hours after this next turn? This would give us a full two days for our turns.

[Legendary League]

Alright then. Of course. You are Ermor after all. :p

[parone]

i really don't mind the increased interval(my turns take about 4 minutes) but i have to ask, isn't 48 hours two days? or are you so evil, you have actually changed the fabric of time...

[schoelle]

Ok - the tide of Ermor has entered my territoriy and I doubt that there is anything I can do about a 2500+ army. If anybody has the courrage to attack Ermor, now is the time. Otherwise, the game is decided.

[Shardphoenix]

Ok - the tide of Ermor has entered my territoriy and I doubt that there is anything I can do about a 2500+ army. If anybody has the courrage to attack Ermor, now is the time. Otherwise, the game is decided.
Dude, it`s over turn 50. 2500 isn`t even a real army by ermorian standarts - he should already have several armies 10 000+ strong.
That`s when Undead Mastery comes into play.

[HoleyDooley]

Ok - the tide of Ermor has entered my territoriy and I doubt that there is anything I can do about a 2500+ army. If anybody has the courrage to attack Ermor, now is the time. Otherwise, the game is decided.



LOL.

[parone]

Ha!! another dead zmey! of course, we actuallly lost the battle, and another 100 units...perhaps we shouldn't be celebrating?

i must have the maus proptotype. and more methamphetamines

[HoleyDooley]

Thats what undead do best of course..is die....they have had practice at it already. Taking a Zmey with them is just the Xmas bonus.

[Legendary League]

If you want to defeat Ermor, you throw Undead Mastery, Solar Brilliance, or other major battlefield evocations (like Firestorm) at him.

Or you can cast Pugatory and annihilate his armies without even fighting. Purgatory just destroys Ermor. You then combine Purgatory with blood sacrifices to slowly but surely push back Ermor. You could also throw Astral Corruption on top just to spite his mages. And combine that with major SCs who can eventually run out the timer for his army.

Wait a sec, that's what I would do if I weren't being unjustly attacked by Bogarus.

[mattyburn7]

Bah! That's what happens when you keep announcing to the world what an evil empire I am.

When in fact I contribute 70% of my gold intake for candy canes to the children of Marignon.

[parone]

C'tis is licking the moisture off the walls of it's bunker waiting for bogarus to open that second front...any day now, right matty?

[Legendary League]

Bah! That's what happens when you keep announcing to the world what an evil empire I am.

When in fact I contribute 70% of my gold intake for candy canes to the children of Marignon.
I'm fairly certain 70% of that gold intake goes towards more mages to replace those slain during your brutal rampages across my lands!

During the yearlong siege of our capital, we documented thousands of atrocities committed by your army. Instead of fighting someone who actually is a threat, you insist on perpetuating these atrocities across my lands!

[mattyburn7]

Note to Zmey's: Burn that documentation!

[parone]

note to anyone reading this: matty never agreed to open a second front. remmember, i am a raving lunatic. panzer lehr, attack!!!

[Legendary League]

Oh, and you promised to tell me when you got true zmeys.

You lied.

Also, True Firebirds carry automatic solar brilliance. Just putting it out there for fire nations (esp. fire nations who think that the only choice is to ally with Ermor, *cough cough*.

[mattyburn7]

With your spy network I'm guessing you knew before the Work order came in for the Mage to call the spell. Besides Cnst - 6 is no biggie with you conjuring up fallen angels and with what the angel is casting.

You sure as heck knew that poor defenseless staret was out there delivering candy alone when you sent the disease demon. Oh the humanity!

BTW: I am still waiting for a F3 Staret. Are you sure they aren't a figment of your imagination?

I do promise to PM you when my Tartarians start coming. Deal?

[mattyburn7]

On a side-note after reading the news about the Greek run on banks. Am I a pessimist or should I feel sometimes that the 21st century may be a tough one for this planet?

[parone]

LL, they aren't matty's zmey's im killing, their shard's(ulm). so, he may not be leaving out info. then again, he may have zmeys, i dunno. my 'spy network' is about 2 strong...

[Legendary League]

It's not that, matty has had Zmeys for the past...year? and hasn't said anything. :p

[mattyburn7]

LL...did you dispel my global? I'm sad. A measley 5 astral per turn.

ok. Since I didn't fess up with the Zmey I'll toss out that I'm getting some Wendigoes. Gotta do something with all those water gems and no place to go.

[parone]

i like wendigos. but i tend to get then killed when they are little flesh nibbling wendigos. i never get them to be all that they can be.

[Shardphoenix]

True Firebirds
Too bad True Firebird is unique.

[Legendary League]

True Firebirds
Too bad True Firebird is unique.
Better grab that instant solar brilliance then. ;)

LL...did you dispel my global? I'm sad. A measley 5 astral per turn.

ok. Since I didn't fess up with the Zmey I'll toss out that I'm getting some Wendigoes. Gotta do something with all those water gems and no place to go.
What global?

[Aderion]

Hi everyone,

I am sorry, but I have to drop out of this game. I had no time to even fire up dom3 since the last weekend and I will also not have time in the next days.

If nobody objects (i.e. wants to search for a sub), I would set myself to ai, probably this evening.

[Legendary League]

I think it would be better if you let us find a sub. You never know what one can do after all. :) Thanks for letting us know: I'll put out the ad today.

Thanks for playing with us, by the way. It was fun (even if I still think you should've helped with Bogarus instead of siding with him :p).

[Aderion]

I also had fun playing this game, which after all was my firts MP game I played, so forgive me my poor desicions ;)

By the way, do you need anything from me for the "sub-process" ?

[mattyburn7]

It was a lot of fun having you on board. Also enjoyed playing with you in the other games. Hope to see you around again!

I think for the sub just have a detailed list of the atrocities perpetrated by the Marignon thugs (errr Nation) and perhaps a similar list of the benevolence of Bogarus.

Cheers Mate!

[Legendary League]

I also had fun playing this game, which after all was my firts MP game I played, so forgive me my poor desicions ;)

By the way, do you need anything from me for the "sub-process" ?
You don't need to do anything! Just send in your turn for now, and I'll set the email for your next turn to the sub's when we get one. :)

Thanks for playing, anyways. And poor decisions is relative. From my perspective, your decision earned you nothing except a costly war against me which ended in nothing more than your armies getting flamebroiled, and Bogarus growing stronger off of it all.

[parone]

wait till i shrug off ulm's inconsequential armies. then you'll see some flamebroiling!!! i have nearly made it to evocation level 3!!!! that's right matty, LL, Hooley, bone daddy and shard! magma bolts coming your way. concede now, beat the rush!

[parone]

i believe shard may have conceded. the idea of magma bolts was just too much...

[schoelle]

Overrun by Ermor, I will probably go to AI in the next few turns.

That stupid war against Pan was killing me. I had asked some time ago for a NAP, knowing that Ermor would overrun us both if we kept on fighting, which was rejected by him because "this is so much more fun" - which I could somehow relate to :)

Thanks for the game everyone.

[Legendary League]

Say hello to Jolly Roger, our new Pangaea.

Also, derp stale was derp.

[revenant2]

Bone Daddy sends evil greetings our new tree hugger friend.

Please ignore the billowing clouds of black smoke and smell of charred bodies to your south. There's been a change of leadership in some of these provinces and with it comes a new Emorian management style that's so efficient that we actually don't need living people anymore.

I know. Impressive. Right?

Our people are so awed by it that they weep and cry with near continuous joy because they now have the luxury to spend more time with their families and pursue their hobbies without having to work or fight in our many defensive wars.

Admittedly, there's not much food down here, and it takes some effort to avoid those roving bands of hungry undead. It might also be a bit chilly outside of our fortresses. However, our practice of lining the walls of our fortresses with the smouldering bones of Abysian soldiers really helped a lot, but their bones are in short supply and our population has some concerns sharing a fort with a horde of zombies.

Anyway, you can just ignore those cries as well. They will pass soon, too.

[Shardphoenix]

OK, guys, I have news for you: either we dispell Well of Misery NOW - or Ermor wins in the near future. We need to pile up gems. Anyone got a high-level S mage?

[revenant2]

OK, guys, I have news for you: either we dispell Well of Misery NOW - or Ermor wins in the near future. We need to pile up gems. Anyone got a high-level S mage?

Fellas. Fellas. Let's not be hasty here. Bone Daddy was just trying to do a service to the world and help raise everyone's standard of living. Seriously, some of my own zombies live better then some of your downtrodden citizens.

This is all part of Bone Daddy's altruistic "Giving Back" policy. There's nothing sinister here. There's nothing to see here. Just move along.

How come Ulm hates Bone Daddy so? We never hurt you. We don't know about the rest of you, but we smell a conspiracy by some of the dark Northern powers to use poor Bone Daddy as a scapegoat for their own misdeeds. How's your war going with C'tis, Ulm? Did you attack him just because he's a lizard? That seems to wrong to me. In Ermor we believe in quality for all corpses -- except for monkeys. But they no longer exist, so that point is moot now.

Anyway, don't dispel Well of Misery. We'll just cast it again. Muahahahahah.

[Shardphoenix]

Anyway, don't dispel Well of Misery. We'll just cast it again. Muahahahahah.Because, obviously, you didn`t put all 897798678987 of your D gems into it. /sarcasm

[revenant2]

Anyway, don't dispel Well of Misery. We'll just cast it again. Muahahahahah.Because, obviously, you didn`t put all 897798678987 of your D gems into it. /sarcasm

We think you're confusing the number of gems with the number of my troops.

[parone]

Shard just killed my pretender. for the 300th time!

[parone]

it's harder to kill zmey's when they are ethereal...

[HoleyDooley]

lol...yeah mate.....lol.

There are spells that give your guys sharpened weapons etc, that makes their weapons not only more effective, they are magic. Then the Zmeys are not too hard to kill.

[Calahan]

There are spells that give your guys sharpened weapons etc, that makes their weapons not only more effective, they are magic.
QFYI - Weapons of Sharpness != Magic Weapons

[parone]

good call calahan and hooley. but you don't understand, i stopped researching about turn 13. me casting weapons of sharpness would be roughly akin to the pilgrims trying to get their blunderbuss loaders to fire on automatic

[HoleyDooley]

What.....Blunderbuss can't fire on automatic....let me check my history books!

[Shardphoenix]

Sooooo... Anyone got mages with natural S 4+? because, AFAIK, items don`t count for dispel attempts. Because WE NEED TO MAKE WELL OF MISERY GO AWAY. NOW.

[revenant2]

Sooooo... Anyone got mages with natural S 4+? because, AFAIK, items don`t count for dispel attempts. Because WE NEED TO MAKE WELL OF MISERY GO AWAY. NOW.

How many astral gems are we talking about here? If the price is right, Bone Daddy will dispel it for you :)

[parone]

i have no scouts, so i don't really know. but isn't this game over already? i think ermor has overrun like 4 nations, right?

of course, my own game has been over for like 30 turns. i just hang out for the conversation...

[HoleyDooley]

So, you come here often?

[Shardphoenix]

It isn`t over yet.

[revenant2]

It isn`t over yet.

Agreed. This game has a very long way to go before anyone can claim any type of victory.

[parone]

C'tis declares victory!!!

[parone]

the truth, shard, is that i have been playing all along left handed. and i am a righty. i am switching to my right hand next turn. you are in SO much trouble.

[HoleyDooley]

OMG....Disguising yourself as a South Paw is definately braking the DOM 3 code of conduct.

Consider yourself stripped of your Godly powers!

[Shardphoenix]

Agreed. This game has a very long way to go before anyone can claim any type of victory.
Not THAT long if you manage to cast Utterdark or Burden of Time and keep it up. And Well of Misery is a huge leap in the right direction

[revenant2]

Agreed. This game has a very long way to go before anyone can claim any type of victory.
Not THAT long if you manage to cast Utterdark or Burden of Time and keep it up. And Well of Misery is a huge leap in the right direction

You forgot who you're talking to here. Bone Daddy's nation might be scary, evil, and have an appetite for mortal flesh (yummy!), but researching ain't his thing. It will be many many turns before he could cast those spells. This assumes he even wanted too because the second he pulls the trigger everyone would bum rush him and pool resources to dispel them.

[mattyburn7]

Hey guys. Has anyone heard from LL. He staled. Then posted, but I think he has staled 2 more turns now. I haven't seen him posting on other boards either?

[revenant2]

Hey guys. Has anyone heard from LL. He staled. Then posted, but I think he has staled 2 more turns now. I haven't seen him posting on other boards either?

I haven't heard anything.

So he's staled the past two turns? That's not good.

Does anyone have the admin password? It might be good to extend the hosting until we can clarify what's going on.

I was going to ask to push the hosting to 72H anyway because my turns are taking several hours to complete now...

[mattyburn7]

I do. I'm going to extend now. I'll change interval to 72 hours and add a delay.

[Shardphoenix]

the second he pulls the trigger everyone would bum rush him and pool resources to dispel them That`s how you rock. After all, you`ve already got almost half of the map, right?

[mattyburn7]

I did 1 more 24 hour postpontment. What do you want to do? I haven't heard anything from LL and he has a couple stales in a row here. He staled his last turn in Blood Sacrifices. It looks like he is getting turns in in Power Beyond Comprehension.

[revenant2]

I did 1 more 24 hour postpontment. What do you want to do? I haven't heard anything from LL and he has a couple stales in a row here. He staled his last turn in Blood Sacrifices. It looks like he is getting turns in in Power Beyond Comprehension.

You probably know his tactical and strategic situation better than anyone. If he has a hope of fighting you off, then I'd say we should get a temporary sub until/if he returns. If not, we should probably set him to AI -- although we should probably give him an extra day or two to be safe.

[revenant2]

Has Pangaea been staling as well? I know Pan had a change of ownership to Jolly Roger, but I have seen a turn posted during my sporadic checks over the past couple of turns.

[Shardphoenix]

http://www.llamaserver.net/doAdminAction.cgi?game=BloodAstralorDeath_BSoD&action=showstales

[revenant2]

http://www.llamaserver.net/doAdminAction.cgi?game=BloodAstralorDeath_BSoD&action=showstales

I had no idea that feature existed.

You sir, get a cookie!

[Shardphoenix]

It`s hidden in "Admin options". :)

[revenant2]

It`s hidden in "Admin options". :)

I sent a note to Jolly Roger about Pan.

I'd say we give him and LL 24 more hours to respond before we look for replacements.

[mattyburn7]

I'm wondering if Jolly Roger got caught up with LL staling and was waiting to hear back. He's been pretty responsive in the other games. If you hear from Jolly Roger let me know and I'll make the switch for Pangaea

[mattyburn7]

I postponed another 48 hours to get the new Pangaea player setup.

[revenant2]

thats ok shardphoenix. two of them, 10 of us. and we'll have herald lances and maggots
Have you ever played against LA Ermor? I`ve tried once. With LA Pangaea (trampling minotaurs and "dust to dust" spam). I`ve lost, even with financial help from other players..
It`s not about killing undead - it`s about killing ~10000 of them on turn 20. And it only gets worse.

I just hope the last one of us will be Jomon - They, at least, have some nice anti-Ryelh troops underwater.

While we're waiting to sort out our player situation, I thought it would be interesting to count how many units I had at turn 20, and it was 1,137 unead. I had a pretty good start with 26 provinces at this time and was spending all available gold to building temples and forts.

I did lose several hundred troops to Patala and Atlantis on turn 20, so under perfect circumstances I might have had around 1,500, but I don't think I could have improved this very much -- certainly not anywhere near 10K.

By the way, I did some tests last night where I calculated the average troop generation over 100 turns. Here's the data:

http://devnada.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/ermorspawn.jpg

Basically, with 10 dominion in a province with no structures built, i.e., fort or temple, LA Ermor will generate about 10 chaff a turn. Put in a temple and fort, and the average is about 23 (with higher quality units).
If I have time, I might rerun the tests with Soul Gate up.

I'm wondering if the 10K total was in the old days of LA Ermor where their dominion didn't kill population as quickly? This gave a lot more money to Ermor who could afford to buy lots of priests, who could then reanimate the recently departed into legions of soulless. However, even then, I don't think anyone could get close to 10K.

[revenant2]

My OCD kicked in and I felt compelled to count how many units I lost at the hands of Atlantis and Patala on turn 20. We lost 588 undead, or about a third of all my units in 8 separate battles -- only two of which I won (one of which was against an undefended province). That was a bad turn, although worse was to come.

Anyway, I would have had 1725 units in my empire as a best case scenario.

If I had somehow been able to put all undead into a single large horde, Atlantis would have utterly destroyed it with his scary super-soldiers. If you're curious, here is what most of my battles with Atlantis looked like at around that time:

http://devnada.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/b29.jpg

[parone]

dont like your kill ration, rev. how'd you survive?

[revenant2]

dont like your kill ration, rev. how'd you survive?

It got a lot worse later on. On turn 23 Atlantis blew through a large defense force 400+ strong in one of my fortresses that was next to my capital, where I only killed a handful of his soldiers before being massacred.

http://devnada.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/b117.jpg

You can read more about it on my AAR at http://devnada.wordpress.com/bsod/, although I'm only on turn 20. However, I should have the next couple of turns up in a few days.

[Jolly Roger]

Gentlemen,

finally I took command for Pangaea as replacement player.

"Preserve the nature and pray to the one and only god !" :angel:angel

Thanks for taking me in.

Cheers, Klaus

[Russian_Comrade]

About Ermor's survival - it was quite simple. I went for his capital, got defeated, lost ~30-40% of my army because of skelespam from ~10 death mages, got another ~30% starved and plauged because I miscalculated. My blessed troops are really difficult to replace, BTW. I had no ability to storm his capital again and to continue the war I had to use almost of my mages - and to use large front with only two supply items. And I already used half of my mages or so in the combat, so my research was worse than miserable. Some bad events killed ~60% of population in the capital, so after upkeep I had like 400-500 gold per turn. It was possible to continue the war, but I without some way to gain some gold quickly or without assistance from Midgard _and_ Abysia I had really good chance to became a ruler of wasted land without any ability to recruit. And everybody else was engaged in some type of war.

And Patala just lost. I really do not know what was the reason of this.

[mattyburn7]

Ok. We have a sub for Marignon also. KeithZ is taking over. Thanks Keith!

[revenant2]

About Ermor's survival - it was quite simple. I went for his capital, got defeated, lost ~30-40% of my army because of skelespam from ~10 death mages, got another ~30% starved and plauged because I miscalculated. My blessed troops are really difficult to replace, BTW. I had no ability to storm his capital again and to continue the war I had to use almost of my mages - and to use large front with only two supply items. And I already used half of my mages or so in the combat, so my research was worse than miserable. Some bad events killed ~60% of population in the capital, so after upkeep I had like 400-500 gold per turn. It was possible to continue the war, but I without some way to gain some gold quickly or without assistance from Midgard _and_ Abysia I had really good chance to became a ruler of wasted land without any ability to recruit. And everybody else was engaged in some type of war.

And Patala just lost. I really do not know what was the reason of this.

The skellispam helped, but there was a bit more to it. You had 23 protection Ice Guards and Arssartuts with a E9A9N4 bless that made them virtually unstoppable by my chaff -- including summoned skeletons.

The main reason we were able to stop you was because we burned nearly all of our gems to summon a wall of Wailing Ladies that were able to use their AOE soul-slay attack to destroy a good chunk of your melee troops -- especially those uber Ice Guards. Even then, we were only able to kill some of your troops before you cut down my ladies.

The skellispam did help by holding back your forces long enough for the fortress defenses to kill enough of your undead to force a route.

Patala actually did quite well. However, he was sandwiched between Me and R'lyeh and suffered a lot of economic damage that prevented him from mustering a large offensive force. I also focused most of my attention on him since my forces couldn't hurt you.

[parone]

hmm. i seem to be down to two provinces, and one is undefended. i am beginning to think i may not win this war...

[mattyburn7]

But the important thing is you have an army in one province!!

[parone]

yes matty. i suppose that glass IS half full...

[mattyburn7]

Maybe if you are vewy vewy quiet. No one will notice and the rest of the world will destroy themselves and you can emerge the winner.

[parone]

that would be the only real chance at victory now. but if bonedaddy wins, it will be very lonely

[Russian_Comrade]

The main reason we were able to stop you was because we burned nearly all of our gems to summon a wall of Wailing Ladies that were able to use their AOE soul-slay attack to destroy a good chunk of your melee troops -- especially those uber Ice Guards. Even then, we were only able to kill some of your troops before you cut down my ladies.

The skellispam did help by holding back your forces long enough for the fortress defenses to kill enough of your undead to force a route.

I watched that battle several times, Wailing Ladies killed 15 soldiers tops. You needed to put them in single unit formations and hide them in the chaff. DtD made them cry for the last time. The biggest number of casualties was from those nasty ballistas, so it was the second reason. Really small fighting front - so yeah, I did kill ~20 skellies per turn, which was within your capability to replace. I played with the battlefield for a little. Even if you had no Ladies and almost no starting chaff (I killed them in the first turn of battle record), I had only so-so
chances to win.

So to capture your capital I had either double the number of mages or bring at least 50% more troops. There was no real means to do anything else - I had no research to speak of because of the DtD spam.

Well, it was a gamble. And the reason why maps with borders are so unbalances sometimes - in toroidal ones Ermor usually faces 3-person coalition. :)

Patala IMHO expanded too slowly. I expected him to do it better - with the ethereal elephants. Also, I have some suspicions that his dom scale was down to 4 (or less), which is pretty bad.

[Shardphoenix]

While we're waiting to sort out our player situation, I thought it would be interesting to count how many units I had at turn 20, and it was 1,137 unead. I had a pretty good start with 26 provinces at this time and was spending all available gold to building temples and forts.

I did lose several hundred troops to Patala and Atlantis on turn 20, so under perfect circumstances I might have had around 1,500, but I don't think I could have improved this very much -- certainly not anywhere near 10K. You didn`t take a combat pretender that can take provinces by himself. You didn`t overtax at 200%, didn`t hire indie priests and didn`t reanimate with them.
Nad all of this adds up

[revenant2]

While we're waiting to sort out our player situation, I thought it would be interesting to count how many units I had at turn 20, and it was 1,137 unead. I had a pretty good start with 26 provinces at this time and was spending all available gold to building temples and forts.

I did lose several hundred troops to Patala and Atlantis on turn 20, so under perfect circumstances I might have had around 1,500, but I don't think I could have improved this very much -- certainly not anywhere near 10K. You didn`t take a combat pretender that can take provinces by himself. You didn`t overtax at 200%, didn`t hire indie priests and didn`t reanimate with them.
Nad all of this adds up

That's incorrect. All my provinces are taxed at 200% at the beginning -- not that it made that much of a difference because population dies so quickly.

There's not enough money to recruit priests in large quantities in the beginning -- at least not without sacrificing temples and fortresses. Even then, an H1 priest can only reanimate 10 soulless per turn and he can only do that while there are corpses on the ground, which quickly decay into nothing.

Assuming you did manage to recruit 10 priests in turn 1 and had unlimited corpses, you'd reanimate 100 undead per turn. After 20 turns you'd have 2,000 soulless. Of course, in reality you wouldn't have anywhere near that amount.

I'm not sure how a combat pretender would help very much unless you think he could help generate extra income, which he would have -- by a little bit, but certainly not enough to recruit an army of priests. By the time you did, there wouldn't be very many corpses left for you to reanimate.

I'm not trying to completely shoot you down here, but I just don't see how this would be possible. The only way I could see this method being half-way successful is if you completely focused on nothing but priests and then moved them together in a big army to reanimating after pillaging provinces. Even then, I don't think you could generate 10K armies by turn 20 and you'd totally gimp yourself since Soulless kinda suck. They are basically big bags of meat that you put on the front lines to soak up damage.

One other thing: I don't think a combat pretender on a large map as Ermor is a very optimal. The main weakness of Ermor (besides being ganged up on) is a lack of magical diversity in the end game, and the best way to mitigate this is via a scrawny rainbow pretender.

[revenant2]

The main reason we were able to stop you was because we burned nearly all of our gems to summon a wall of Wailing Ladies that were able to use their AOE soul-slay attack to destroy a good chunk of your melee troops -- especially those uber Ice Guards. Even then, we were only able to kill some of your troops before you cut down my ladies.

The skellispam did help by holding back your forces long enough for the fortress defenses to kill enough of your undead to force a route.

I watched that battle several times, Wailing Ladies killed 15 soldiers tops. You needed to put them in single unit formations and hide them in the chaff. DtD made them cry for the last time. The biggest number of casualties was from those nasty ballistas, so it was the second reason. Really small fighting front - so yeah, I did kill ~20 skellies per turn, which was within your capability to replace. I played with the battlefield for a little. Even if you had no Ladies and almost no starting chaff (I killed them in the first turn of battle record), I had only so-so
chances to win.

So to capture your capital I had either double the number of mages or bring at least 50% more troops. There was no real means to do anything else - I had no research to speak of because of the DtD spam.

Well, it was a gamble. And the reason why maps with borders are so unbalances sometimes - in toroidal ones Ermor usually faces 3-person coalition. :)

Patala IMHO expanded too slowly. I expected him to do it better - with the ethereal elephants. Also, I have some suspicions that his dom scale was down to 4 (or less), which is pretty bad.

You're absolutely right. I watched the battle a few times and reset the random number generator (via the U option), and I won every time without the wailing ladies.

Next time I'll intermingle them :) At the time, I had no idea they could be that effective.

[Shardphoenix]

OK, maybe I was mistaken. Still, it doesn`t matter too much, because now we`re going to face ETHEREAL undead hordes. I`m calling ghostbusters.

[revenant2]

OK, maybe I was mistaken. Still, it doesn`t matter too much, because now we`re going to face ETHEREAL undead hordes. I`m calling ghostbusters.

If only I could summon this guy :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-sALU_hveA

[parone]

C'tis sees salvation!!! undead hordes to our south, coming to save us. hallelujia(sp?)

[Shardphoenix]

More like - to take away your last precious D gems.

[parone]

we don't have many. and i am tongue in cheek here. obviously, salvation by the ashen empire would be a mixed blessing...

[Jolly Roger]

Hi.

I know that´s a pain in the ***, but I´ve just received a message I have to speak on a congress in Prague, means I´ll be out of town from Thursday (14th) morning to Saturday(16th) late in the evening.
So I could continue on Sunday morning (GMT).:doh:

Sorry, hope that´s not too annoying. The good message is I´ll be available without any break until the 11th of August.:angel

Regards, Klaus

[parone]

couldn't you tell the congress in Prague that you are involved in a dominions game? wouldn't they reschedule?

[mattyburn7]

No worries Jolly Roger. We'll put a delay on for you. Just don't rush back just for this!!

[revenant2]

Hi.

I know that´s a pain in the ***, but I´ve just received a message I have to speak on a congress in Prague, means I´ll be out of town from Thursday (14th) morning to Saturday(16th) late in the evening.
So I could continue on Sunday morning (GMT).:doh:

Sorry, hope that´s not too annoying. The good message is I´ll be available without any break until the 11th of August.:angel

Regards, Klaus

Bone Daddy will patiently wait outside the walls of your fortress.

[Jolly Roger]

Thanks for you patience...:D:eek:

[Shardphoenix]

Alteration 9 was one hell of unpleasant surprise from Ermor. Fog Warriors+Army of Gold... Damn.

[mattyburn7]

yes. Reports are that Ermor is packing more than just a bunch of undead chaff.

[revenant2]

Alteration 9 was one hell of unpleasant surprise from Ermor. Fog Warriors+Army of Gold... Damn.

Bone Daddy's zombies have been griping incessantly about their lack of protection on the battlefield. It was getting so bad that Bone Daddy couldn't walk through the halls of his many fortresses without hearing

"I don't like getting hacked apart all the time"
"Those blades hurt!"
"I don't want die again. Don't make me go out there again!
"Where's my foot? Seriously. Where's my foot? I lost it again."
"I'm hungry. Is there any monkey left?"

Bone Daddy would tell them, "You undead clowns are already dead! What do you have to lose?! Shut-up and get back out there so I can resume my evil plotting in peace. And stop talking. Zombies aren't suppose to talk".

However, this didn't appease them very much, so Bone Daddy was forced to use his vast and terrible intellect to research additional protection spells and conjure the units capable of casting them. We think it's silly since undead hordes are meant to be vast, but easy to destroy. They are not supposed to be vast AND hard to kill? Right? It makes a mockery of every zombie movie ever made.

But our hands are tied. And we must confess, it is rather effective. Welcome to our brave new world.

[parone]

HA! you guys were pushing C'tis around at the bus stop! but now my undead big brother is here. get ready for C'tis to start talking tough(i will mention here, just this once, that i do realize i was thorougly defeated and outplayed-)

[mattyburn7]

Everyone: I'm on vacataion from 6/22 to 7/1. I'll do my best to get turns in but I will probably have to extend a couple. CHeers!

[Shardphoenix]

Wait...
Ermor casts Army of Gold>Ermor has alteration 9 > Ermor has Utterdark.
And he`s got THE best gem income by far, due to Strands of arcane power and Well of Misery.
So,it means that in couple turns he casts Utterdark with 890890890678 gems overcharge, everybody has their money income reduced by 90%, armies desert, we cannot recruit mages, Ermor wins.
Congratulations, revenant2, you`ve won.

I. Hate. LA Ermor.

[revenant2]

Wait...
Ermor casts Army of Gold>Ermor has alteration 9 > Ermor has Utterdark.
And he`s got THE best gem income by far, due to Strands of arcane power and Well of Misery.
So,it means that in couple turns he casts Utterdark with 890890890678 gems overcharge, everybody has their money income reduced by 90%, armies desert, we cannot recruit mages, Ermor wins.
Congratulations, revenant2, you`ve won.

I. Hate. LA Ermor.

We'll neither confirm nor deny your assessment, although to retain his glow of evil Bone Daddy takes morning swims in a large pool that's been filled with nothing but his supply death gems.

If the rest of the powers concur, we'll accept victory as humbly as we are able. However, we suspect that Bogarus and Atlantis (and possibly some of the other survivors) might not be so willing to give up their souls just yet.

[mattyburn7]

Nah...we'd still like to have fun with the army we built. Even if its a case of running a few battles and watching you pull out Utterdark when you need it, then concede.

[parone]

yeah. and i still think i have a shot at this thing...

[HoleyDooley]

Thats the fighting spirit parone......go get em mate!

[parone]

i have like 40 units left!

[HoleyDooley]

That many!!!!!!!!!!! Ermor is shaking in his...wait, they don't wear boots...hhhhhhmmmmm, he is just shaking!

[revenant2]

I want to give a head's up that there's a chance I might need a 24-hour extension. I'm going to try to get it in by Sunday night, but I'm not sure if I have enough free hours to pull it off with the ever-increasing complexity of these turns combined with the weekend.

I think I need to hire a project manager to help manage this work-load :)

By the way, you know you've been playing too much Dominions when your pretender whispers his moves to you when you're trying to sleep...

[mattyburn7]

I'm going to go ahead and delay 48 hours. Thanks!

[mattyburn7]

Guys. it looks like the password got changed. I'm not sure why he would have changed it, but it looks like he did. I'm going to try to get llamaserver to reset. and give us 48 hour delay.

[revenant2]

Ulm,

You better take good care of our undead that you recently kidnapped. Bone Daddy has a fondness for his undead children and gets angry when they are mistreated or used against him.

We must confess that you've shown a certain level of animal cunning with your use of Undead Mastery, but Bone Daddy's intellect dwarfs that of any mere mortal -- especially a fountain of blood that plays with other beings bodily fluids all day -- and had already devised an evil plan to counter it.

We can't go into details about the plan, but suffice it to say it's terrible and diabolical. However, there's still one piece missing: we haven't actually figured out how to torture a fountain of blood yet. For instance, is it best to slowly chip at it with a hammer? Or would letting our zombies use it as a bathtub be a better solution? It's quite a mystery, although our Dusk Elders are hard at research.

[Shardphoenix]

On the other hand, Iron Inquisition knows many ways to torture a lich. You may come in person, we`ll show you.

[parone]

you better give my big brother back his skeletons...

[Shardphoenix]

Oh, hi. I believe, mr. Nachtzerer has some unfiniished buisness with your prophet...

[parone]

god i hate that nachtzerer guy. what is his kill ratio vs ctis? i'd have to say right around 750-0

[parone]

when it's all over, someone will have to give me a lesson in killing good thugs. of all my shortcomings(and they are legion) it is by far my biggest weakness

[Shardphoenix]

god i hate that nachtzerer guy. what is his kill ratio vs ctis? i'd have to say right around 750-0

In fact, it`s 145-2. Check HoF.
But since he`s immortal and spreads his domain wherever he flies... Well, you`ve got the idea.
Also, in his current state he`s pretty much in "proper SC" territory.

[revenant2]

when it's all over, someone will have to give me a lesson in killing good thugs. of all my shortcomings(and they are legion) it is by far my biggest weakness

Bone Daddy suggests using the dreaded Dust to Dust spell to kill Burkhart Nachtzehrer. It's an easily attainable, AOE spell that requires minimal magic paths and is not resistable by undead.

Burkart is immortal, so you won't be able to kill him permanently in his own dominion, but he'll lose whatever items he has with him.

Bone Daddy is tempted to start fielding more death mages against Ulm since he's fielding quite a few undead of his own.

How does the dark side feel, Ulm? Don't fight monsters lest you become one...

[Shardphoenix]

Bone Daddy suggests using the dreaded Dust to Dust spell to kill Burkhart Nachtzehrer.
He tried that. Around 170 hp with over 30 hp/turn of regen was a little bit too much for dust to dust to handle, though.
How does the dark side feel, Ulm? Don't fight monsters lest you become one... Iron Inquisition officially believes in "Evil unto evil" doctrine.

[revenant2]

Bone Daddy suggests using the dreaded Dust to Dust spell to kill Burkhart Nachtzehrer.
He tried that. Around 170 hp with over 30 hp/turn of regen was a little bit too much for dust to dust to handle, though.
How does the dark side feel, Ulm? Don't fight monsters lest you become one... Iron Inquisition officially believes in "Evil unto evil" doctrine.

Yikes. I thought he he had a lot less HP.

That's good to know for future reference :)

[parone]

would soul slay work? at my current level of research, i could get there in the year 3000.

[Shardphoenix]

would soul slay work?
Yes. it would. Except that you need a high penetration and several mages spamming it. Nice, tasty mages... :)
Yikes. I thought he he had a lot less HP.Prophets tend to have high HP in their own dominion... Especially if they get a +HP heroic ability and spend some time in HoF. ;)

[revenant2]

would soul slay work?
Yes. it would. Except that you need a high penetration and several mages spamming it. Nice, tasty mages... :)
Yikes. I thought he he had a lot less HP.Prophets tend to have high HP in their own dominion... Especially if they get a +HP heroic ability and spend some time in HoF. ;)

For a nasty immortal SC, I would go with the "Horror Mark" spell (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Horror_Mark). It only requires S2 and is available at Thaum 1, which even a research-challenged lizard should be able to pull off.

A horror mark should be effective because it will attract -- you guessed it -- horrors. If you get a high enough dose of marks, it will increase the frequency and strength of attacks to the point where his SC might be effectively knocked out of action as he gets taken down by horrors every turn. I believe the marks increase in strength as you fight horrors, so you might not need very many to get the cycle going.

This is all theory-craft on my part since I've never actually tried this strategy, but it might be worth a try. If you need astral boosters, let me know ;)

[Shardphoenix]

Horror mark needs MANY castings to become effective.

[parone]

well, i got nothin but time. of course, i have no astral mages...

[revenant2]

Glorious news, Mortals! The Sun has been vanquished!

The magnificent Bone Daddy, the monkey slayer, he of the seven fingers, and soon-to-be conquer of the world, has snuffed out the bright, shining menace from our sky using magic beyond the understanding of mere living beings.

For too long our peoples have walked under the sun's hateful rays that were cast down upon us in mocking contempt. No more! We're free at least to walk unmolested in the darkness without worry about getting nasty sunburns or forced to squint in the sun's nasty glow.

We know what everyone is thinking: How can we thank BD for such and wonderful and noble achievement? Absolutely none are required because we just want the world to be a better place where we live in harmony as a single people under the glorious night. If you wish to share in our collective joy and celebrate with us, then please join us at any of our temples. BYOB.

We do realize that a very small minority of naysayers might be fearful that the arctic temperatures, massive economic disruptions, and continuous monster attacks might be an issue. However, we think that this is a very small price to pay, although as a show of BD's generosity and giving nature, refugees are free to relocate to any of our numerous fortresses.

[Shardphoenix]

Yeah, winning a noobgame as LA Ermor - so much honor in that.

[revenant2]

Yeah, winning a noobgame as LA Ermor - so much honor in that.

If you're a newb then I'm a monkey's uncle. You have pages and pages of tactics written on the forums. If you are a newb, then I'd be terrified of what an experienced player is like.

I will give you credit that you give good advise. I think you need to work on your presentation a bit because I don't think people really took it to heart. Maybe they thought you were crying wolf?

Anyway, it's ironic because all of our advise in the beginning probably helped me more than anyone else: I realized that I couldn't just throw massive amounts of chaff at other players because there are just too many ways to destroy them, so I focused on diversifying my forces as much as possible (it's a good thing I took a rainbow mage as a pretender). This turned out to be brutally effective against Midgard and Pangaea -- and you this past turn.

I knew you were going to throw undead mastery at me, so I had prepared massive assassination spam as a counter. In the last turn most of it didn't even land because I wiped out all of your commanders.

I even created this chart to help gauge how effective undead mastery would be against my forces:

http://devnada.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/undeadmastery.jpg

I didn't know when you were going to spring it so I didn't have a chance to evacuate my low MR troops, although with soul gate up I'll have fairly high MR troops that will be more resistant to it. Of course, I could also use it myself to get back my troops in a pinch :)

You're like one of those James Bond villains that can't help but spill the beans about their secret plans...

[Shardphoenix]

That`s just because i feel it`s cheap to gain advantage by hiding basic knowledge from other players.
If you're a newb then I'm a monkey's uncle.
Maybe I`m not exactly a newb, more of a moderate player - but it didn`t matter because you already became unstoppable before reaching me, by feasting on Patala and later Midgard/Abyssia/Pan. And i had totally NO astral income barring my cap before I took some from Parone - so I couldn`t even dispel those Strands of arcane power you used to generate a huge gemincome.
Anyway, you`ve successfully invaded my heartland and will be storming my cap in approximately 3 turns. And I can do nothing to stop you. It doesn`t matter if I kill some of your troops, since you generate more per turn anyway. And there`s no way I can hurt your high-end summons.
Sorry, but i`m going AI. It`s too frustrating for me to continue this exercise in futility.
Mattyburn might try finding a sub - but I, personally, think it`s pointless.

[revenant2]

That`s just because i feel it`s cheap to gain advantage by hiding basic knowledge from other players.
If you're a newb then I'm a monkey's uncle.
Maybe I`m not exactly a newb, more of a moderate player - but it didn`t matter because you already became unstoppable before reaching me, by feasting on Patala and later Midgard/Abyssia/Pan. And i had totally NO astral income barring my cap before I took some from Parone - so I couldn`t even dispel those Strands of arcane power you used to generate a huge gemincome.
Anyway, you`ve successfully invaded my heartland and will be storming my cap in approximately 3 turns. And I can do nothing to stop you. It doesn`t matter if I kill some of your troops, since you generate more per turn anyway. And there`s no way I can hurt your high-end summons.
Sorry, but i`m going AI. It`s too frustrating for me to continue this exercise in futility.
Mattyburn might try finding a sub - but I, personally, think it`s pointless.

You're spot-on about Strands of Arcane Power. It made a huge difference and found most of my non-death/astral gem sites within a few turns.

A dispel probably wouldn't have helped very much since SoAP is fairly cheap to cast and my astral income was already fairly high, so I just would have cast it again.

It's served it's purpose quite well, although it hasn't found anything in many turns. I'll probably need to dispel it soon to make room for another enchantment. You can probably guess what that enchantment will be :)

[Shardphoenix]

You can probably guess what that enchantment will be
Burden of Time? Because Bogarus has old mages...

[parone]

ohh the irony. i hung in vs shard for what buddy, 40 turns while i had absolutely no shot? and now you take one shot vs ermor, get whipped and bail? after taking shots at him that there was 'no honor' in his victory?

tsk tsk shardphoenix. you are a more skilled player than i, but not a very good sport...

[Shardphoenix]

and now you take one shot vs ermor, get whipped and bail? There are things happening, that you don`t know about.

[Russian_Comrade]

Sigh. Calling each other names... Relax people, it's only a game.

Well, first of all, I'm congratulating Ermor with victory, any further resistance is pretty much useless. I'll possibly strike at Ermor just for lulz, but chances for victory - especially with players quitting - are close to zero. With my modest S income it is quite impossible to destroy global enchantment spam.

The second thing - it greatly amused me that Ermor needed to break NAP act with me in such boring way. Having position that strong and initiating direct hostile actions (and casting Utterdark and dispelling my global are direct hostile actions) without any common courtesy is pretty strange, ungraceful and is not easy for me to understand. Still - that action was effective, although from now I'll have more second thoughts when I'll consider myself in engaging in any diplomatic activity with Ermor's player, and advise other players to do the same.

[revenant2]

Sigh. Calling each other names... Relax people, it's only a game.

Well, first of all, I'm congratulating Ermor with victory, any further resistance is pretty much useless. I'll possibly strike at Ermor just for lulz, but chances for victory - especially with players quitting - are close to zero. With my modest S income it is quite impossible to destroy global enchantment spam.

The second thing - it greatly amused me that Ermor needed to break NAP act with me in such boring way. Having position that strong and initiating direct hostile actions (and casting Utterdark and dispelling my global are direct hostile actions) without any common courtesy is pretty strange, ungraceful and is not easy for me to understand. Still - that action was effective, although from now I'll have more second thoughts when I'll consider myself in engaging in any diplomatic activity with Ermor's player, and advise other players to do the same.

Interesting point about the NAP. I can definitely see where you're coming from, although in the few games I've been in (three including this one), I didn't see people be especially concerned about game-winning enchants in terms of NAPs, although I'll grant you that none of them were Utterdark either.

Don't most of your troops have Darkvision and have low upkeep cost anyway? I figure UD would effect you least of anyone -- well, besides me of course :)

Newb question: Is there an established protocol for NAPs? I figured it included attacks, assassinations, and remote attacks, but everything else is shades of grey to me. For instance, you were sending in waves of spies against me. In one turn, I rooted out three of them in one of my provinces alone. Is that considered a violation of a NAP?

I also feel the need to remind you that I assisted you with gems, items, and even went to war with R'lyeh to protect you (even though it was strategically a bad decision for me since my troops don't fight well underwater), and split Abysia's tribute with you when I didn't need too, which was all beyond the bounds of a NAP.

Hell, at one point I even told you how powerful I was becoming and suggested that you that you might want to consider banding together with the remaining nations to stop me, or be subservient to Bone Daddy. I even gave you the option to nullify the NAP so you wouldn't have to give notice.

If that's a player that has suspect diplomatic dealings, then you have some out-of-this world expectations.

[parone]

i don't think trying to win makes you 'shady'. shouldn't we all expect the other players to try to win. if a global gives you a huge advantage, i can't see you not casting due to a NAP.

shard-true- i don't really know what is going on. you have been nice to me, my post was probably out of line due to my rampant alchoholism. that said, it made sense to me at the time(and does right now, but hey, i'm pretty bombed)

[HoleyDooley]

Grats to revenant on the win.

Re dispelling of Globals, my take on it is this regarding NAPs.

You should NOT overwrite a global with someone you have a NAP. In a game being played, I had to cancel a NAP with the warning to the player I had no intention of attacking him, he then realised it was only to cast a global that would over write his. Which I cast.

Now castying a global that will overwrite one of the 5 existing globals is fine, as you can't be sure whose will get over written.

As far as just casting dispel on a global, thats fine, as its anonymous spell, just like casting anonymous ritual spells that cause hurricanes etc.

Cheers guys and thanks for the game.

HD

[Russian_Comrade]

How amusing.

Well, thing is, I'm just trying to use "deal struck is the deal struck" approach to the Dom3 diplomacy. Meaning that I may say a lot of fuzzy and evasive things before a deal and may be dealing with other players under the table, but after the deal is struck I'll find really difficult for me to directly violate it. I may reconsider this approach after a few games, but for now I'm going to go with this method. I'm especially wary against a NAP violation, in this dog-eat-dog of Dom3 it is pretty important to maintain at least some measure of civility.

Interesting point about the NAP. I can definitely see where you're coming from, although in the few games I've been in (three including this one), I didn't see people be especially concerned about game-winning enchants in terms of NAPs, although I'll grant you that none of them were Utterdark either.

Don't most of your troops have Darkvision and have low upkeep cost anyway? I figure UD would effect you least of anyone -- well, besides me of course :)


Utterdark and Burden of Time are world-attacking spells. They have a same effect as casting direct-attack spell at the every single of your provinces all of the time. Thus, casting them without notice is a direct hostile action. Thank you for considering the results of casting it by me, but well, taking somewhat less damage from the nuclear winter is still taking damage.


Well, maybe I had to figure that I needed to help you with micromanagment by attacking some of your armies?
Newb question: Is there an established protocol for NAPs? I figured it included attacks, assassinations, and remote attacks, but everything else is shades of grey to me. For instance, you were sending in waves of spies against me. In one turn, I rooted out three of them in one of my provinces alone. Is that considered a violation of a NAP?

Casting a direct attack spell is a hostile action for me. Utterdark is a direct attack spell. Spying is not. Did my scouts attack your provinces or cut 90% of your gem supply?


Hell, at one point I even told you how powerful I was becoming and suggested that you that you might want to consider banding together with the remaining nations to stop me, or be subservient to Bone Daddy. I even gave you the option to nullify the NAP so you wouldn't have to give notice.

You told me that 2 turns ago - with no mention of using UD (and you spoke with me about possible using BoT before that in the future so I had some stupid naive idea that I'll have some notice of you casting UD). The same time you scripted dispelling my global, by the way. I asked you last turn in reply about sudden disappearance of this global, had no answer, scipted some war preparation things. This turn I was going to send you NAP dissolval message, and I was going to attack you in three turns.

[revenant2]

How amusing.

Well, thing is, I'm just trying to use "deal struck is the deal struck" approach to the Dom3 diplomacy. Meaning that I may say a lot of fuzzy and evasive things before a deal and may be dealing with other players under the table, but after the deal is struck I'll find really difficult for me to directly violate it. I may reconsider this approach after a few games, but for now I'm going to go with this method. I'm especially wary against a NAP violation, in this dog-eat-dog of Dom3 it is pretty important to maintain at least some measure of civility.

Interesting point about the NAP. I can definitely see where you're coming from, although in the few games I've been in (three including this one), I didn't see people be especially concerned about game-winning enchants in terms of NAPs, although I'll grant you that none of them were Utterdark either.

Don't most of your troops have Darkvision and have low upkeep cost anyway? I figure UD would effect you least of anyone -- well, besides me of course :)


Utterdark and Burden of Time are world-attacking spells. They have a same effect as casting direct-attack spell at the every single of your provinces all of the time. Thus, casting them without notice is a direct hostile action. Thank you for considering the results of casting it by me, but well, taking somewhat less damage from the nuclear winter is still taking damage.


Well, maybe I had to figure that I needed to help you with micromanagment by attacking some of your armies?
Newb question: Is there an established protocol for NAPs? I figured it included attacks, assassinations, and remote attacks, but everything else is shades of grey to me. For instance, you were sending in waves of spies against me. In one turn, I rooted out three of them in one of my provinces alone. Is that considered a violation of a NAP?

Casting a direct attack spell is a hostile action for me. Utterdark is a direct attack spell. Spying is not. Did my scouts attack your provinces or cut 90% of your gem supply?


Hell, at one point I even told you how powerful I was becoming and suggested that you that you might want to consider banding together with the remaining nations to stop me, or be subservient to Bone Daddy. I even gave you the option to nullify the NAP so you wouldn't have to give notice.

You told me that 2 turns ago - with no mention of using UD (and you spoke with me about possible using BoT before that in the future so I had some stupid naive idea that I'll have some notice of you casting UD). The same time you scripted dispelling my global, by the way. I asked you last turn in reply about sudden disappearance of this global, had no answer, scipted some war preparation things. This turn I was going to send you NAP dissolval message, and I was going to attack you in three turns.

Spying actually is an offensive action. On the battlefield replay it shows up as an attack and the patrolling force can easily lose units due to friendly fire.

And as far as the dispelling the global goes, it's an anonymous action. And I neither confirmed nor denied that I dispelled it. As far as you're concerned it could have been cast by an AI or a dastardly plot by another player to mess with you.

Yeah I know, it might seem far-fetched since I obviously was the one to benefit from it, but then again, why would I waste a turn and astral gems for a game-ending enchantment? I used well over 500 death gems to cast Utter Dark and I guarantee you that it was going to overpower whatever was there.

And it's not like I needed those other enchants after UD anyway. My death income is over 50 without Well of Misery, I'm overflowing with units so Soul Gate doesn't really help (I don't have enough commanders for all my undead), and Strands of Arcane Power lost its effectiveness a long time ago.

[Russian_Comrade]

I'll just capture the world with the legions of heavy-armored unkillable scouts. Sigh. Scouts die, that is pretty sad.

And I'm not saying that dispelling my global was a hostile action. You are totally right, I have no means to prove that it was your dispel. I'm saying that UD itself is a hostile spell.

Another funny thing: while it is impossible to prove that it was your dispel, "neither confirming or denying" accusations in the language of diplomacy means "you may think anything you want, maybe yes, maybe no" - but with some extra meaning. When one side accuses another of having a nuke, it is a good policy (translation: "LOL, come at us and check your luck - we may bluff or no, better to be our friend than our enemy"). When one side accuses another of sabotaging a power plant, it is a bad policy (translation: "Well, my bad, but I do not want to say a direct lie, and having me admitting it will be bad for me too").

[mattyburn7]

I finally have time to chime in a bit. Couple thoughts/points

1) It sounds like everyone is about ready to concede. I know the writing is on the wall, but I'd like a few turns of fighting with Ermor to try to test some things and learn some things. If others want to turn AI that is fine, but I'll stick it out a bit longer.

2) I found it amusing how LL kept insisting I was the main threat based on research and 1 battle while it was painfully obvious that Ermor was conquering the world. Everytime I tried to point out that Ermor was the main threat I'd hear from LL and Shardphoenix about how easy it would be to beat Ermor. Well, we see how that turned ou.t

3) There was a somewhat long thread on the main forums page about NAPs. The consensus seems to be there is no consensus. Some players think its perfectly acceptable to move 20 stealthy armies into every province during a NAP, cancel, then spring a huge Alpha. Others would be appalled by that. My view tends to be the strictest form. No spies, so stealthy armies (only scouts allowed), no "offensive globals" (like UD) although I think dispels, etc. would be ok. Perhaps in future games, players should be encouraged to define the details of the NAP when they make them. I see lots of areas of potential conflicts.

4) I have enjoyed the game. Although I am going to hang in a little longer, my congrats to Rev on the win. my thanks to the subs who helped out. Holey, my thanks to you on a smart and beneficial NAP that we created early on. Parone: Thanks for hanging in for so long.

[Russian_Comrade]

I finally have time to chime in a bit. Couple thoughts/points

1) It sounds like everyone is about ready to concede. I know the writing is on the wall, but I'd like a few turns of fighting with Ermor to try to test some things and learn some things. If others want to turn AI that is fine, but I'll stick it out a bit longer.


Same thing. I'll fight until my armies will be destroyed.


2) I found it amusing how LL kept insisting I was the main threat based on research and 1 battle while it was painfully obvious that Ermor was conquering the world. Everytime I tried to point out that Ermor was the main threat I'd hear from LL and Shardphoenix about how easy it would be to beat Ermor. Well, we see how that turned ou.t

Actually, the same thing. I had a talk with LL and he managed to make me think the same way. Sorry.


3) There was a somewhat long thread on the main forums page about NAPs. The consensus seems to be there is no consensus. Some players think its perfectly acceptable to move 20 stealthy armies into every province during a NAP, cancel, then spring a huge Alpha. Others would be appalled by that. My view tends to be the strictest form. No spies, so stealthy armies (only scouts allowed), no "offensive globals" (like UD) although I think dispels, etc. would be ok. Perhaps in future games, players should be encouraged to define the details of the NAP when they make them. I see lots of areas of potential conflicts.


Again, I agree. Still, it is really difficult to engage in such discussions in fast games when you can't even have any response from some players.


4) I have enjoyed the game. Although I am going to hang in a little longer, my congrats to Rev on the win. my thanks to the subs who helped out. Holey, my thanks to you on a smart and beneficial NAP that we created early on. Parone: Thanks for hanging in for so long.

And again, I'm going to repeat those worlds.

[mattyburn7]

Yes...and 1 continuation on my point #4. I tip my hat to Russian Comrade. This was your first MP game I believe. You were in a tight spot, especially with Patala going down so fast! You did well in a really hard position and I enjoyed your diplomacy and conversations! No worries about LL. He was very persistent! LOL.

[Russian_Comrade]

Yes...and 1 continuation on my point #4. I tip my hat to Russian Comrade. This was your first MP game I believe. You were in a tight spot, especially with Patala going down so fast! You did well in a really hard position and I enjoyed your diplomacy and conversations! No worries about LL. He was very persistent! LOL.

Thanks.
I wanted to have someone soft to me to rush him with highly-blessed troops. Unfortunately, there was Ermor.

Also, I'd like to have a 24h extension.

[mattyburn7]

k. I'll add 24 to the timer.

[revenant2]

Yes...and 1 continuation on my point #4. I tip my hat to Russian Comrade. This was your first MP game I believe. You were in a tight spot, especially with Patala going down so fast! You did well in a really hard position and I enjoyed your diplomacy and conversations! No worries about LL. He was very persistent! LOL.

Thanks.
I wanted to have someone soft to me to rush him with highly-blessed troops. Unfortunately, there was Ermor.

Also, I'd like to have a 24h extension.

Atlantis deserves a ton of credit for going all out against me in the beginning. He was truly an unstoppable monster in the beginning, who burned almost everything to come after me. The only thing that saved me was the map, which made it difficult for him to reach me in enough time to wipe me out. I don't have the map in front of me, but his capital is like 5 moves from mine over mountainous terrain.

[revenant2]

1) It sounds like everyone is about ready to concede. I know the writing is on the wall, but I'd like a few turns of fighting with Ermor to try to test some things and learn some things. If others want to turn AI that is fine, but I'll stick it out a bit longer.


Excellent. We have a few things we'd like to try out as well since you're one of the few nations (besides Marignon) that we haven't fought yet.

By the way, I'm giving notice to Atlantis that Bone Daddy's hordes will be attacking him this turn since it's obvious that an attack is imminent from him. However, we'll refrain from attacking if he still wants to be bound by the terms of the NAP.

[revenant2]

2) I found it amusing how LL kept insisting I was the main threat based on research and 1 battle while it was painfully obvious that Ermor was conquering the world. Everytime I tried to point out that Ermor was the main threat I'd hear from LL and Shardphoenix about how easy it would be to beat Ermor. Well, we see how that turned ou.t


I think in the majority of the games those guys would have been right, but in a large map with borders, i.e., no wrapping, and no scoring, it gives additional time and protection for Ermor to grow in power to the point where a lot of those tactics become less effective.

Also, many of those tactics that were touted, e.g., Undead Mastery, are difficult to research and require a fair amount of preparation to setup, which most nations are going to be reluctant to pursue when they have other wars going on. If you can pull it off, then great, but it's not a magic bullet and there are always counters to the counters.

[mattyburn7]

Yes. The map definetly helped in this case. Of course it also created a situation for me where I could expand and get way ahead in research. So it worked for me in the early game and worked against me in the mid-game when I was best positioned to check (had access to spells that would have been devestating to chaff) you but had no way to get my armies near you.

[revenant2]

I finally have time to chime in a bit. Couple thoughts/points

3) There was a somewhat long thread on the main forums page about NAPs. The consensus seems to be there is no consensus. Some players think its perfectly acceptable to move 20 stealthy armies into every province during a NAP, cancel, then spring a huge Alpha. Others would be appalled by that. My view tends to be the strictest form. No spies, so stealthy armies (only scouts allowed), no "offensive globals" (like UD) although I think dispels, etc. would be ok. Perhaps in future games, players should be encouraged to define the details of the NAP when they make them. I see lots of areas of potential conflicts.


I know this horse has been beaten to death, but I can't resist to get in one more kick:

To underscore one of your points, I totally agree that in a Machiavellian diplomatic game with no defined NAP that players are going to have varying ideas of what constitutes an agreement.

However, due to the depth of the game it might be difficult to hash out a comprehensive agreement without a lot of work and not without sounding very lawyer-like.

Unless someone in the community comes up with a precise definition of what constitutes a NAP (which is highly doubtful based on what Matty noticed) I think that anyone playing under this model will need to be accepting that these situations are going to occur and that NAPs are open to interpretation.

Personally, I think invasions, remote assassinations, and remote attacks, e.g., Fires from Afar, are gross violations of a NAP and reflect unhonorably upon the violator. However, if you're violating the NAP because your opponent is doing something hostile or even potentially hostile such as casting a destructive enchant, building up a possible invasion force on your border, or even sending in scouts, etc, then you have Causi Belli to launch your own attack. Everything else is fair game -- including anonymous actions, e.g., dispel, although if they find out and interpret your action as hostile then be prepared to face the consequences.

I'm mentioning this in case I play with any of you guys in the future so you know where I stand.

Scout infiltration might be a bit controversial, but even if they don't cause too much damage when found (and I have first hand experience they can depending on the layout of the forces -- play a game as MA Ermor with all their Nether Dart spam and chaff and you'll see) they are gathering valuable intelligence that serves primarily one purpose: to plan an attack. In some other games I've been in players will send a friendly message asking for permission to let them move scouts through their territory.

In this game, I didn't make a big deal about Atlantis's scouts since I wasn't eager to start a war with him at the time, although it spurred me to send in my own scouts. However, if the situation was different, I would have been justified to use it as a pretext to war.

Note: I don't think it's wrong to spy on people you have NAPs with -- just be prepared to handle the consequences if they are caught.

[Russian_Comrade]

1) It sounds like everyone is about ready to concede. I know the writing is on the wall, but I'd like a few turns of fighting with Ermor to try to test some things and learn some things. If others want to turn AI that is fine, but I'll stick it out a bit longer.


Excellent. We have a few things we'd like to try out as well since you're one of the few nations (besides Marignon) that we haven't fought yet.

By the way, I'm giving notice to Atlantis that Bone Daddy's hordes will be attacking him this turn since it's obvious that an attack is imminent from him. However, we'll refrain from attacking if he still wants to be bound by the terms of the NAP.


Well, you may attack me anytime, you already broken NAP with UD and while my forces are not in thier positions it is of little importance juset now.

Yes. The map definetly helped in this case. Of course it also created a situation for me where I could expand and get way ahead in research. So it worked for me in the early game and worked against me in the mid-game when I was best positioned to check (had access to spells that would have been devestating to chaff) you but had no way to get my armies near you.

No wrapping is bad bad bad. Normally you are going to have at least three nations working against LA Ermor in the early game, this time we had two. And players in corners have great advantadge. It is possible to limit the effects of that problems with very careful map design, but it is not a trivial.


About scouts and casus belli: if you are concerned about someones scouts you may talk to that player about it. To deaclare war if someone sent a scout or two to your territory is not a good thing.

Casting Utterdark is the same thing to say "World, I want to bugger you and I'm doing this rrrrright now." I can't understand how this may even possibly lie in the gray area, sorry.

[Shardphoenix]

they are gathering valuable intelligence that serves primarily one purpose: to plan an attack.Or they just keep an eye on you to ensure, that you`re not preparing to backstab.
I always do it, for example.
BTW, I was planning an early attack against Bogarus... Mainly for the reason I couldn`t move my scouts to the west, past his capitol. But then Parone started threating me - and became №1 priority target.

[mattyburn7]

Next time ask and I'll pause patrol for a turn or 2 so you can sneak by.

I really was convinced you were going to attack me sooner or later. With the way LL was going on and you agreeing with him (and having each of you on each side). I always had to keep at least 1/2 my army facing you. It really slowed down my attack on Marignon.

[Shardphoenix]

Well, having super-fast research, not needing anything but scales and AND simargl patrollers on top of that makes Bogarus one of LA`s biggest powerhouses (if not THE biggest in Ermor`s absence). Easy access to soulcontracts helps too, OFC. So, you cannot blame me for that. :)
BTW, next time limit yourself to magic-1. Your best researchers (Starets and master of names) have sage bonus, so magic-3 isn`t too effective on them.

[mattyburn7]

Thanks for the tip on the magic. I should move those points elsewhere...and nope don't blame you one bit. Just was surprised not to be attacked!!

And like I Said before the map really helped me early. I was able to expand way south, not too much east(because we bumped into each other), but nevertheless I was able to get a great early jump with crap troops and a dormant pretender.

I think by turn 20 I probably had 6 forts and was way ahead on research. Unfortunately I got overcautious expecting to get double-teamed and got into a war that took wayyyy too long and moved me away from the Ermor action. It was a fun learning experience. Unfortunately every other game I've played with Bogarus since this I have either gotten caught into an early war or hemmed in and had trouble expanding.

[parone]

shard, me thinks that is not accurate. i was at war with abysia when you attacked me-i didn't threaten you! you said you were going to attack and so i threatened to kill every one of your men you moved across the bridge(a threat i failed to execute).

anyway, i think i will eventually win this game now that my cap has been liberated. big mistake bone daddy.

[Shardphoenix]

shard, me thinks that is not accurate. i was at war with abysia when you attacked me-i didn't threaten you!
I was talking about things like that:
since lazarus is dead already, maybe i can use him to steam roll Ulm early...
i know i am doomed here, but i kind of look at myself as a rabid dog. gonna die? yes. but that means i have very little to lose...

[mattyburn7]

Parone: You will win. With my massive research curve I have just researched Evocation Level 28: Nuclear weapons. I am about to have my mages cast it, destroying all people and turning them into skeletons and a wasteland. You being far from me will be only survivor.

Of course a wasteland with just skeletons is right up Bone Daddy's alley. Well, on to plan B.

[parone]

i was actually counting on you researching nukes. built my whole grand strategy around it!

shard-while that is obviously a post by me, i still don't understand it! if lazarus was dead(and we all know he died A LOT in this game) how could i plan to kill you with him? it seems a laughable idea now, alive or dead, as he may have proved to be one of the least formidable SCs in the history of dominions.

[Shardphoenix]

And like I Said before the map really helped me early.Starting on a barren rock was REALLY painful. I had 2 good provinces from my initial expansion, all others had like 1-2k pop.

[Shardphoenix]

and we all know he died A LOT in this gameDon`t overestimate. Like 5 times only... Maybe even less.
if lazarus was dead(and we all know he died A LOT in this game) how could i plan to kill you with him? I think, you meant "is going to die in the near future". And he was quite nice, actually (esp. with all the snakes). But you need to work on your equipment/buff strategy.

[parone]

yeah. true. not only can i not kill SCs, i can't make em either. i reread the posts(what fun!) and you are right-he wasn't dead, it was just the general opinion that he'd BE dead soon.

[Shardphoenix]

In fact, later attempts were much better.

[revenant2]

And like I Said before the map really helped me early.Starting on a barren rock was REALLY painful. I had 2 good provinces from my initial expansion, all others had like 1-2k pop.

Population? What's that? :)

Bone Daddy ghoulified his remaining population from his heartland to man his fortresses and prevent the nasty space monsters (R'leyh) from casting imprint souls on us.

[revenant2]

Parone: You will win. With my massive research curve I have just researched Evocation Level 28: Nuclear weapons. I am about to have my mages cast it, destroying all people and turning them into skeletons and a wasteland. You being far from me will be only survivor.

Of course a wasteland with just skeletons is right up Bone Daddy's alley. Well, on to plan B.

I'd suggest Holy Hand Grenades.

[revenant2]

No wrapping is bad bad bad. Normally you are going to have at least three nations working against LA Ermor in the early game, this time we had two. And players in corners have great advantadge. It is possible to limit the effects of that problems with very careful map design, but it is not a trivial.

Another major factor was that we had a few people go AI earlier than they should have in my view, which didn't help the cause of the living. I'm sure Midgard and R'lyeh had legitimate reasons, but they could have really slowed me down if they were managed by a person. Even as an AI they each managed to wipe a large army -- and I'm still haven't taken Midgard's capitol yet.

[revenant2]

shard, me thinks that is not accurate. i was at war with abysia when you attacked me-i didn't threaten you! you said you were going to attack and so i threatened to kill every one of your men you moved across the bridge(a threat i failed to execute).

anyway, i think i will eventually win this game now that my cap has been liberated. big mistake bone daddy.

Maybe you threatened him in one of your drunken rants?

Liberating you was my secret trump card against Shard: Once you pull the crazy man from his box, it's hard to stuff him back in.

[mattyburn7]

Yes. That drives me nuts when players go AI early. I can understand when you have no army left and no prospect for raising an army. I can also understand when the game is pretty much done (like this one is now) or if your personal life gets in the way. But we were begging Midgard and Pangaea(when Aderion was playing) to think about the threat of Ermor and they showed little interest...and of course when Midgard got invaded he bailed. R'lyeh also. I really respect Parone for hanging in. He probably prevented me from getting attacked.

Hell I'm in another game now where I was just down to my capital and it was seiged. The player seiging me got attacked by 2 other nations and now I'm able to break the siege and even grabbed a couple of provinces. I won't win, and yes I'd rather be competetive in the game, but I'll have a hell of a good time being a thorn in his side now, learning a few things and see how far I can get.

A lot of respect also for Russian. He could have bailed after Patala and R'lyeh did, but he didn't. Holey also kept at it.


No wrapping is bad bad bad. Normally you are going to have at least three nations working against LA Ermor in the early game, this time we had two. And players in corners have great advantadge. It is possible to limit the effects of that problems with very careful map design, but it is not a trivial.

Another major factor was that we had a few people go AI earlier than they should have in my view, which didn't help the cause of the living. I'm sure Midgard and R'lyeh had legitimate reasons, but they could have really slowed me down if they were managed by a person. Even as an AI they each managed to wipe a large army -- and I'm still haven't taken Midgard's capitol yet.

[parone]

Maybe you threatened him in one of your drunken rants?


it is oddly liberating that my shrapnel friends know that i am a part time drunk. no more hiding for me!

[mattyburn7]

I think I"m going to get drunk tonight!

[revenant2]

I can also understand when the game is pretty much done (like this one is now) or if your personal life gets in the way. But we were begging Midgard and Pangaea(when Aderion was playing) to think about the threat of Ermor and they showed little interest...and of course when Midgard got invaded he bailed. R'lyeh also. I really respect Parone for hanging in. He probably prevented me from getting attacked.

I know you guys are about ready to throw in the towel, but if everyone banded together you still might be able to make a go of this thing. I'll readily admit that I'm in a incredibly strong position (assaulting my homeland would be the stuff of nightmares for an invader) and the chances are definitely in my favor, but I'm still a newbie with only one game under my belt and another one that's in progress (I'm about to lose that game in progress BTW), and it feels like I barely know what I'm doing half the time, so there's still a little bit of hope.

I'm all with you about Paron: He was a steely eyed missile man throughout this entire game and deserves a huge amount of credit for tenaciously resisting Ulm.

[mattyburn7]

I'll want to see some of my armies get wiped out before throwing it in. If nothing else I'll have fun killing dead guys! LOL

[HoleyDooley]

Really interesting subject brought up though was the Utterdark being cast.

I had not thought of it in terms of hurting people you have NAPs with.

Now my mind has been awakened to this i would definitely cancel NAPs before hand.

All I need to do now is be good enough in a game to cast the damn thing.

I am not holding my breath.

[revenant2]

Really interesting subject brought up though was the Utterdark being cast.

I had not thought of it in terms of hurting people you have NAPs with.

Now my mind has been awakened to this i would definitely cancel NAPs before hand.

All I need to do now is be good enough in a game to cast the damn thing.

I am not holding my breath.

It was. I can justify it by making pedantic arguments about scouts and what not, but I'll give notice next time I cast it.

Atlantis,

For what it's worth, I'm sorry. Honestly, it didn't cross my mind when I cast the thing that I should have broken my NAPs, but in retrospect, it would have been the right thing to do. This is one of the many reasons I still consider myself a newbie.

[Russian_Comrade]

Atlantis,

For what it's worth, I'm sorry. Honestly, it didn't cross my mind when I cast the thing that I should have broken my NAPs, but in retrospect, it would have been the right thing to do. This is one of the many reasons I still consider myself a newbie.


No need to apologize, you did what you needed to do to win (and it was pretty interesting to watch), and it is just a game. And yeah, I plotted with Bogarus and Ulm against you and planned to attack you in three turns from the current turn. This turn I hoped to start my armies moving to you borders and to send you NAP annulment message.


The main mistake that I did in game was not pressing you hard enough. After battle at your capital I had to keep pushing, even with no money to hire my troops. And I needed to buy more supply items faster, actually I had only one cauldorn when I assaulted your capital. The next turn my retreating forces mixed with reinforcments and were starved as a result.


Still, I have some forces to throw at Ermor now. I'm really going to fight till the last amphibian.

[HoleyDooley]

Comrade,

I think maybe cutting Rev2 a break here for future games and diplomacy could be the go.
I am all for NAPs and abiding by them, if people feel differently thats fine, its a free world...but I will stick to my word.

But honestly, I would have cast UD not realising that its negative effects on anyone I had a NAP with was in fact a breach of the NAP.

Now, thanks to this discussion I have been enlightened and I doubt from reading Revs comments above, he will do so in the future......its the little things like this that make you realise, you still have a long way to go in learning all about this game.

Enjoy your final battles Matt, and thanks for a great game until I got swamped that is...lol.

HD

[Shardphoenix]

Really interesting subject brought up though was the Utterdark being cast.

I had not thought of it in terms of hurting people you have NAPs with.

Now my mind has been awakened to this i would definitely cancel NAPs before hand. AFAIK, all game-ender spells are considered breaking a NAP - even the ones that don`t hurt you directly, like Arcane Nexus, or Forge. Just because casting one is effectively saying "and now I gonna win this game".

[parone]

shard-

so, say i was ulm and had a nap with you. do i have to give you three turns notice before i throw up the forge? or are you saying, i put it up, then our nap is null and void?

honestly just asking here.

[HoleyDooley]

It has no direct negative effect on his income, gem or otherwise...so I would say no cancellation is necessary.

I believe what SP is saying (correct me if I am wrong SP)is that when you put up such globals...you put a giant target on your back.

[Shardphoenix]

or are you saying, i put it up, then our nap is null and void?
This. Forge, if used correctly, can promote a nation from "strong" to "unbeatable" in like 2-3 turns (and if one casts it - he, most likely, has enough gems and forging plan), so giving a 3-turn notice is a luxury that generally cannot be afforded. Same with Arcane Nexus - it can generate over 100 pearls/turn (assuming there is active endgame going), so it becomes nasty really fast.
Of course, it depends - sometimes those enchantments are more of a way to level playing field somewhat.

[revenant2]

This turn was crazy!

[mattyburn7]

How So?

[revenant2]

How So?

We threw everything we had at Atlantis. If we had a kitchen sink we would have tossed it at him as well.

Don't worry Matty, we'll have some fun next turn ;)

[mattyburn7]

Yes. I saw that Army fast approaching...Fun Fun FUn!

[revenant2]

The main mistake that I did in game was not pressing you hard enough. After battle at your capital I had to keep pushing, even with no money to hire my troops. And I needed to buy more supply items faster, actually I had only one cauldorn when I assaulted your capital. The next turn my retreating forces mixed with reinforcments and were starved as a result.

That would have been pretty wild if you kept up the attack. I had real problems hurting your troops so you probably would have been able to cause a LOT of damage for me and possibly knock me out since I wouldn't have been able to withstand both you and Patala. However, that would have been quite a sacrifice on your part, and I'm not sure it would have helped you win the game because you would have been a sitting duck for Abysia then.

I think you made the right call, although I could tell that my dominion really messed you up economically. I was able to exploit that to a certain extent this past turn with that arouse hunger spam since most of your provinces only had 1 PD. By the way, this is one of the many reasons scouts are so dangerous: I had mapped all of our provinces defenses so I could pearl harbor your temples. I was originally going to just hit the temple provinces without fortresses, but then I realized I could hit ALL of your provinces in one turn. Don't hate me :)

By the way, who gave you that supply item? Bone Daddy would like to have a few words with your supplier :)

[Russian_Comrade]

I think you made the right call, although I could tell that my dominion really messed you up economically. I was able to exploit that to a certain extent this past turn with that arouse hunger spam since most of your provinces only had 1 PD. By the way, this is one of the many reasons scouts are so dangerous: I had mapped all of our provinces defenses so I could pearl harbor your temples. I was originally going to just hit the temple provinces without fortresses, but then I realized I could hit ALL of your provinces in one turn. Don't hate me

Hm. Do you realize that I was unable to even buy PD to get protection from riders before your attack due to the amusing fact that somehow last turn my money hit the zero? Same with you able to strike at my capital with plague. Pearl Harbor actually happened last turn, with my carriers sunk in the harbor as well.

[Shardphoenix]

somehow last turn my money hit the zero? Utterdark drops your income to 10% of what it was. And your upkeep stays the same.
because you would have been a sitting duck for Abysia then.Abyssian troops cannot get underwater, even with items. And knowing, that some part of enemy empire is effectively immune to your attacks - well, it`s a huge deterrent for some.

[Russian_Comrade]

somehow last turn my money hit the zero? Utterdark drops your income to 10% of what it was. And your upkeep stays the same.

That was sarcasm on my part. :D

[Shardphoenix]

Oh, sorry. I have troubles understanding written sarcasm. %)

[revenant2]

Yes. I saw that Army fast approaching...Fun Fun FUn!

It looks like the real fun won't happen for another turn or two since our main armies are our of position.

We'll be watching the skies for more fireballs...

[parone]

I'm all with you about Paron: He was a steely eyed missile man throughout this entire game and deserves a huge amount of credit for tenaciously resisting Ulm.[/QUOTE]

this makes me sound so much cooler than i have ever actually been in real life. thanks rev.

[mattyburn7]

You rock Parone!

Rev: I hope those 2 armies get to clash. Strategically its lost, but some mega-battles should be fun. I'm going to send out all my armies and let them fight until they are dead or deserted!

[revenant2]

You rock Parone!

Rev: I hope those 2 armies get to clash. Strategically its lost, but some mega-battles should be fun. I'm going to send out all my armies and let them fight until they are dead or deserted!

Bone Daddy's minions smell delicious brains up North and are rushing as fast as their rotten legs will take them.

[Russian_Comrade]

Confusion's working on undead chaff? Interesting.

[revenant2]

You rock Parone!

Rev: I hope those 2 armies get to clash. Strategically its lost, but some mega-battles should be fun. I'm going to send out all my armies and let them fight until they are dead or deserted!

Your main army has almost 70 astral mages and a mix 10 decked out Zmeys and Bane Lords with a couple of construction 8 items for good measure. I'm sure it would be loads of fun for you if we attacked this force, but it would be suicide on our part.

Same thing with Atlantis who has a couple of big armies to the South, one of which has been been carefully designed to cast Undead Mastery using an elaborate communion with lots of penetration items.

Sorry fellas, Bone Daddy might be undead, but he's not crazy. We're going to let you guys chase around our armies for awhile until they bleed out some more and we can gather enough forces to crush you.

This won't be very much fun for you guys because your armies will succumb to desertion and disease (waves of leprosy headed your way BTW) while I send lots of little armies to raid your rear areas and assassinate your commanders with Manifestation, Earth Attacks, and seeing arrows. I have big evocation spells coming online soon, too, which will just compound your misery.

If all the remaining players concede then I'd be happy to throw everything I have in waves of suicide attacks and test various tactics, but until then, I'm playing this thing like I can still lose it, which means I'll be as merciless and cunning as I can be.

[mattyburn7]

do what you need to do. There isn't a snowballs chance of winning this regadless. Even if all your armies suddenly disappeared. Between the globals that are cast, your massive gem income and the rituals you could cast. Our armies are toast. I ended my siege of Marignon to face you in battle and that has allowed him to chip away also. If we fight some battles, great. If not, I'll watch my forces bleed until its time to call it quits.

[mattyburn7]

Issues with work. I'm going to postpone 24 H

[revenant2]

Everyone left in this game deserves a huge amount of credit for hanging in there so long against nearly impossible odds. I have a lot of respect for anyone that has a never say die attitude and sticks it out to the bitter end.

Matty/RC,

Both of you guys are currently marching into the heart of darkness. I can't imagine the hell your armies are going through now -- especially the Atlanteans who've been hit with waves of diseases, assassinations, blizzards, and assorted zombies falling from the sky.


Matty,

I think you're going to get that battle you asked for -- although it won't be for another turn. I want to test out a few tactics against your crazy-big communion, but I need to complete my research first.

[parone]

haha. shard went AI! i outlasted him after all. with a small assist from rev...

hey rev, is your AAR dead? i don't blame you if it is. just the turns must be sucking up hours. but i WAS really enjoying it. you really did end up with some early game problems, and came through them nicely.

[mattyburn7]

The diseases were a real killer. I really wanted to go with smaller battle groups as opposed to 1 big army but unfortunately it got a little too busy too fast up north and I ended up consolidating into 1 big army....1 big diseased army now!!

[revenant2]

haha. shard went AI! i outlasted him after all. with a small assist from rev...

hey rev, is your AAR dead? i don't blame you if it is. just the turns must be sucking up hours. but i WAS really enjoying it. you really did end up with some early game problems, and came through them nicely.

It's definitely not dead, but I've had some time issues and probably won't get a chance to update it further until after this game is over.

I have been taking screen-shots and notes after each turn, but those last couple of turns -- one of which had 50+ battles -- are going to be pretty daunting to write-up with as much detail as the earlier turns.

[revenant2]

The diseases were a real killer. I really wanted to go with smaller battle groups as opposed to 1 big army but unfortunately it got a little too busy too fast up north and I ended up consolidating into 1 big army....1 big diseased army now!!

Leprosy is a real nasty spell: It causes a lot of long-term devastation that's not easily countered, and it's cheap to cast and easily attainable.

As far as I know, the only ways for most nations to remove disease are the Chalice, Faery Queen, or the Gift of Health, none of which are easily attainable and each have certain caveats.

I would have been using Leprosy even more against you, but the Sword of Aurgelmer (awesome artifact BTW) reduces it's effectiveness.

By the way, as Bogarus the ability to heal afflictions can be quite useful because it lets you develop mind hunters without as much worry about the effects of feeble mind

[revenant2]

Doh. Major miscalculation on my part: Undead Mastery requires 6D and not 7D. I won't make that mistake again. Take care of my undead for me Atlantis.

Matty, you were supposed to stand still so I could pummel your mages with Rain of Stones. Now I'm going to have to chase you down. If you could do me a favor and blow out Midgard for me to your South while you're raiding, I would appreciate it. Between you and Atlantis, I can never seem to find time to take care of their last fortress (it's full of delicious air mages BTW).

[mattyburn7]

I won't survive much longer. I had 2 things I was hoping to protect me from ROS. Just curious if you know if I was correct in knowing that they would have helped:

1) I had a mage with a Crystal matrix set to cast Fog Warriors on round 1. I'm assuming if you break siege he would act first and cast it which should protect from the ROS?

2) I had a sword of Augelmer. Keyword Had. Someone swiped it.

Also as an FYI the mage scripted to cast Fog Warriors got bumped off this turn so I would have been screwed too!! :)

BUT assuming you hadn't removed both of those from me. I'm assuming both, particularly first would have protected me?

[revenant2]

I won't survive much longer. I had 2 things I was hoping to protect me from ROS. Just curious if you know if I was correct in knowing that they would have helped:

1) I had a mage with a Crystal matrix set to cast Fog Warriors on round 1. I'm assuming if you break siege he would act first and cast it which should protect from the ROS?

Yeah. He would have definitely cast it first, so you would have been well protected from ROS.

2) I had a sword of Augelmer. Keyword Had. Someone swiped it.

Guilty :) I used wish to steal it from you (along with the chalice this turn -- can't have you making Tartarians). If you had engaged my army you would have been facing 3,500 undead buffed with army of gold, fog warriors, and luck.


Also as an FYI the mage scripted to cast Fog Warriors got bumped off this turn so I would have been screwed too!! :)

I used all my remote attacks against Atlantis last turn. It must have been due to disease?

[revenant2]

I won't survive much longer. I had 2 things I was hoping to protect me from ROS. Just curious if you know if I was correct in knowing that they would have helped:

1) I had a mage with a Crystal matrix set to cast Fog Warriors on round 1. I'm assuming if you break siege he would act first and cast it which should protect from the ROS?

Yeah. He would have definitely cast it first, so you would have been well protected from ROS.

2) I had a sword of Augelmer. Keyword Had. Someone swiped it.

Guilty :) I used wish to steal it from you (along with the chalice this turn -- can't have you making Tartarians). If you had engaged my army you would have been facing 3,500 undead buffed with army of gold, fog warriors, and luck.


Also as an FYI the mage scripted to cast Fog Warriors got bumped off this turn so I would have been screwed too!! :)

I used all my remote attacks against Atlantis last turn. It must have been due to disease?

Actually, ROS only casts 100 fatigue. If I wasn't an idiot I would have scripted it to cast twice, which probably would have done a lot of damage.