Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running

[megawidget]

The free Ettin's are clearly a mistake caused by a typing error in the CBM mod. Free Ettin's are not intended to be available from magic sites in any way, and comparing them to anything else that is intended to be in the game is simply ridiculous. Regardless of how powerful you think what you are comparing it to might be. Plus the barrier to entry between using an Alt site for Wish and recruiting free Ettins is as wide as the universe itself.

And the fact that you know it's a bug and yet decide to exploit it anyway marks you out as an out and out cheating douchebag in my books.


Edit - You've made the HoF. Congrats! -- http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=68&view=findpost&p=22003703

This game has a lot of bugs. For that matter, the RNG itself may be considered a bug, and yet we live with it. So apparently, being hit by a bug that prohibits you from recruiting an underwater commander is OK (which I obviously don't need, but some other nation would have greatly benefited from), but recruiting a thug chassis is *not* OK? Who makes this call? You personally?

I know this is the internet, and I guess it's too much to ask every person not be a frothing imbecile who freely resorts to name-calling and being an obnoxious ******* (yes, I'm looking at *you* and your douchy icon), but I'm hoping the rest of the players will be able to respond to my inquiry much more civilly.

[krpeters]

For what it's worth, no, I don't think recruiting free thugs is a good thing to do.

[mattyburn7]

This game didn't specify so what is done is done at this point. Howver if consensus is that they shouldn't be recruitable I would say recruiting should stop. The one game I started I did specify that recruiting 0G Ettin was verboten. So my vote would be no more of em.
Cheers

[HoleyDooley]

This really needs a vote?

Come on!

Forbidden.

[Legendary League]

OOC: Absolutely, totally forbidden.

I mean the site is an Atlantian city of Shamblers. I don't believe it giving access to recruitable Ettins is WAI (working as intended). Indeed, it was probably intended to give you access to Consort Queens or that priest Atlantian that you get on that mercenary group. Exploiting the 0g commander/thug chassis is gamey.

For now, can the Ettins and leave them in your capital, I'd say. Or kill them off creatively. An alteration site giving a discount to wish still has very high barriers to use (the paths, the initial gems, etc.).

FYI, other "gamey" actions which are not allowed include flooding a nation who has just put up Forge of the Ancients with 40 magic trinkets, etc. Use your own judgement, and if you believe it might be questionable, ask.

IC: Hey, this map is like Europe, and scaly lizardmen are located in Scandinavia! Hey, we want our oil and lutefisk back. :(

[megawidget]

Fine, I've stopped recruiting them.

I don't have the means to get rid of the ones I currently have, but I can promise not to do anything with them. They're rather useless where they are anyway, as they're merely sitting on top of my "best site" in a wasteland.

[mattyburn7]

Ah c'mon,

Scandanvia is the popular tourist site for the Lizards! It goes well with our cold-bloodedness.

I hope the rest of the world is observing the aggression that is about to take place from Helheim. Once he smashes our peaceful lands He'll be adding a lot of land to his nation. It might be wise to stop him now before he grows stronger and stronger!

[Calahan]

The free Ettin's are clearly a mistake caused by a typing error in the CBM mod. Free Ettin's are not intended to be available from magic sites in any way, and comparing them to anything else that is intended to be in the game is simply ridiculous. Regardless of how powerful you think what you are comparing it to might be. Plus the barrier to entry between using an Alt site for Wish and recruiting free Ettins is as wide as the universe itself.

And the fact that you know it's a bug and yet decide to exploit it anyway marks you out as an out and out cheating douchebag in my books.


Edit - You've made the HoF. Congrats! -- http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=68&view=findpost&p=22003703

This game has a lot of bugs. For that matter, the RNG itself may be considered a bug, and yet we live with it. So apparently, being hit by a bug that prohibits you from recruiting an underwater commander is OK (which I obviously don't need, but some other nation would have greatly benefited from), but recruiting a thug chassis is *not* OK? Who makes this call? You personally?

I know this is the internet, and I guess it's too much to ask every person not be a frothing imbecile who freely resorts to name-calling and being an obnoxious ******* (yes, I'm looking at *you* and your douchy icon), but I'm hoping the rest of the players will be able to respond to my inquiry much more civilly.
You are seriously clueless aren't you.

How the game engine itself works is something completely out-of-control of all the players and modders, and those who choose to play and mod Dominions all just have to accept this and deal with any of the bugs that might exist in the engine. (because there is nothing we can do about it other than report them and hope they get fixed). And comparing the use of a known, unintended and moddable bug to issues with the game engine is a seriously poor argumentative stance to take. Various community rules have been formed to deal with the limitations/bugs in the game engine (lab filling, scout blocking etc), and these exist solely because there is nothing we can do about those bugs. So are you also saying that it's ok to exploit any game engine bug as well because another bug allows the recruitment of free Wild Ettins?

Plus these 'game engine bugs' are totally separate from the bug you are using and exploiting, and again comparing the two of them is just you clutching at straws for an argument to support your decision to cheat. And what makes this all the worse is that you know the free Wild Ettins are a bug, and yet not only are you trying to say it's fine to use them, you are also trying to argue it against an overwheling community opinion that you are wrong, and that you are cheating. And you know you are chaating, and now that you've been caught you are trying to defend your actions with ridiculous arguments and comparisons.


And to further elaborate on your pathetic attempt to justify your actions, here is what you should do if you think something in the game, that can be modded, is too powerful or an exploit. (such as your claim about the Alt site)

1 - Go to the CBM thread and argue your case. If it's a good argument and others agree with you then there is a good chance something will be done about it in the next version.

2 - Create your own mod that removes or nerfs whatever it is you think is overpowered and/or an exploit. Then use that mod in the games you play.


What you should never do is cheat by using a known exploit just because you think using this exploit is comparable to other things in the game which you consider are exploits. Notice the word you is very important in this argument, because any player can form an opinion for himself of something in the game which is overpowered or an exploit, but if then everyone decided to cheat to counter their perceived opinions of an exploit, then both the game and the community would disintergrate. As your argument could just as easily be written as...

"I think Niefleheim are overpowered, therefore because they are in this game I now feel it is perfectly acceptable for me to cheat and use whatever exploits I can in order to make up for this".

Or rewritten to fit your arguments.

"I think the Alt dicount site is overpowered and an exploit, therefore because there is a slight chance that it might be in the game, and an even slightly chance someone might use it, I now feel it is perfectly acceptable for me to cheat and use whatever exploits I can in order to make up for this".

or

"I think the game engine has some bugs in it and these bugs are an exploit, and because a weird bug might happen at some point in the game, I now feel it is perfectly acceptable for me to cheat and use whatever exploits I can in order to make up for this".

Now do you see how pathetic your argument is?

but I'm hoping the rest of the players will be able to respond to my inquiry much more civilly.
I wouldn't count on this in your case. Since the Dominions community is generally a very good one, and we really don't like cheaters at all. Go and do a search for "Norfleet" if you want to see how highly regarded cheaters are around here.

...but recruiting a thug chassis is *not* OK? Who makes this call? You personally?
The admin decides. The wider community decides. The main modder of CBM decides (by declaring it a bug). Everyone has decided free Wild Ettins are a bug. And the one person who should never decide it is you. You cheating douchebag who wants to exploit them to his advantage.

[jimbojones1971]

Thanks for not using them or recruiting any more, megawidget. Next game I need to remember to crack open the mod and see if I can fix this.

I found this same site in the game MadnessOfKings, and haven't been recruiting them - so I'm putting my money where my mouth is on this one :-)

Fine, I've stopped recruiting them.

I don't have the means to get rid of the ones I currently have, but I can promise not to do anything with them. They're rather useless where they are anyway, as they're merely sitting on top of my "best site" in a wasteland.

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

I dont want to beat up on you megawidget- but I'd prefer the ettins dead. You actually do have the means to kill them- make a ring of water breathing (const 0), give it to one, send it underwater, take it away. The next turn, it will drown. Rinse and repeat.

I hope there is no ill will on your part. Im sorry that Calahan was rude to you, but I agree with his arguments. Luck in getting good magic sites is part of the game. But even sites with path bonuses usually save you only a few gems- the Alt bonus/ wish scenario is a rare case, and isn't relevant until late game. But the free ettin is 14 free nature gems (without even costing a mage/turn) per turn. That's huge! The RNG argument also makes no sense- it affects all of us equally, and we all accept that chance is part of the game anyway. Also, I think it should be obvious that using a known bug is clearly not good sportsmanship.

So, I hoping you see where we're all coming from, right?

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

I dont want to beat up on you megawidget- but I'd prefer the ettins dead. You actually do have the means to kill them- make a ring of water breathing (const 0), give it to one, send it underwater, take it away. The next turn, it will drown. Rinse and repeat.

I hope there is no ill will on your part. Im sorry that Calahan was rude to you, but I agree with his arguments. Luck in getting good magic sites IS part of the game. But even sites with path bonuses usually save you only a few gems- the Alt bonus/ wish scenario is a rare case, and isn't relevant until late game. But the free ettin is 14 free nature gems (without even costing a mage/turn) per turn. That's huge! The RNG argument also makes no sense- it affects all of us equally, and we all accept that chance is part of the game anyway. Also, I think it should be obvious that using a known bug is clearly not good sportsmanship.

So, I hoping you see where we're all coming from, right?

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

I dont want to beat up on you megawidget- but I'd prefer the ettins dead. You actually do have the means to kill them- make a ring of water breathing (const 0), give it to one, send it underwater, take it away. The next turn, it will drown. Rinse and repeat.

I hope there is no ill will on your part. Im sorry that Calahan was rude to you, but I agree with his arguments. Luck in getting good magic sites IS part of the game. But even sites with path bonuses usually save you only a few gems- the Alt bonus/ wish scenario is a rare case, and isn't relevant until late game. But the free ettin is 14 free nature gems (without even costing a mage/turn) per turn. That's huge! The RNG argument also makes no sense- it affects all of us equally, and we all accept that chance is part of the game anyway. Also, I think it should be obvious that using a known bug is clearly not good sportsmanship.

So, I hoping you see where we're all coming from, right?

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

uhhh, that was weird....sorry about the triple post!

[jimbojones1971]

I'll send you a PM, but I can spot the 5W for a ring of water breathing if you (or someone else) has an actual water mage to make the ring itself.

[momfreeek]

lol, nice try megawidget :p

but, yeah, a free ettin per turn is way unfair

[megawidget]

I dont want to beat up on you megawidget- but I'd prefer the ettins dead. You actually do have the means to kill them- make a ring of water breathing (const 0), give it to one, send it underwater, take it away. The next turn, it will drown. Rinse and repeat.

I hope there is no ill will on your part. Im sorry that Calahan was rude to you, but I agree with his arguments. Luck in getting good magic sites is part of the game. But even sites with path bonuses usually save you only a few gems- the Alt bonus/ wish scenario is a rare case, and isn't relevant until late game. But the free ettin is 14 free nature gems (without even costing a mage/turn) per turn. That's huge! The RNG argument also makes no sense- it affects all of us equally, and we all accept that chance is part of the game anyway. Also, I think it should be obvious that using a known bug is clearly not good sportsmanship.

So, I hoping you see where we're all coming from, right?

I can take off a ring of water breathing while in an underwater province? :confused: Somehow I didn't think that would be possible.

And yes, I see where you are all coming from, that's why I stopped recruiting them. :D I admit I haven't really figured wild ettins to be that great. They're naked giants with shoddy defense and rather worthless without construction research, from what I gather. But then, I never tried them unkitted so maybe they're secretly great and I just don't know. I saw reports of them on the CBM thread and exactly nil response to that. The vanilla exploits, however, appear to be well documented and linked from the strategy guide index.

[megawidget]

I'll send you a PM, but I can spot the 5W for a ring of water breathing if you (or someone else) has an actual water mage to make the ring itself.

Oh, please don't. That's my responsibility. I'm Atlantis, so you would think I would have both the water gems and a water mage to do that -- and I presently do for the latter.
I'll have the water gems for it once I'm done site-searching. You probably can't really tell I've been doing a lot of site searching. :( Somehow I thought elemental provinces were more common underwater than that.

[Anaconda]

All there is to say is "you are wrong, Arcos'"

[jimbojones1971]

Oh, please don't. That's my responsibility. I'm Atlantis, so you would think I would have both the water gems and a water mage to do that -- and I presently do for the latter.
I'll have the water gems for it once I'm done site-searching. You probably can't really tell I've been doing a lot of site searching. :( Somehow I thought elemental provinces were more common underwater than that.

Cool bananas, thanks bro :-)

(Or sis - got that wrong in another game already.)

[krpeters]

I probably shouldn't admit this, but I have trouble seeing why Ettins are worth so much. 14 gems for a mediocre chassis seems too expensive.

But then, 0 gold is also way too cheap :)

[krpeters]

In other news, I'm working on killing off my javelineers. Too bad they won't stay long enough to die properly -- they keep running! Traitors!

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

I probably shouldn't admit this, but I have trouble seeing why Ettins are worth so much. 14 gems for a mediocre chassis seems too expensive.

But then, 0 gold is also way too cheap :)

I think that's a legitimate question. I think a useful comparison is to Bane Lords- they have less strength, less health, and undead vulnerabilities, but full cold and poison resist, zero enc, and good starting armor, all for 12 death gems. Ettins have better health, strength, shock resistance, and an extra arm slot, but they are not good without gear, so they are more expensive when you factor in the need to give them armor. So I think they probably are overpriced, but only by a few gems.

[Rejakor]

They have three arms. That's huge. Two shields and a weapon makes a great thug.

That said, the fluff says great MR, but they have 15 MR. I actually prefer the somethingawful 'awesomemods' version where they have 22 base MR (and slightly better stats) for more gems (I think 18?). Since you don't want to spend the gems to gear something that's just going to die, it strikes a good balance between 'cheap heavy thug' and 'cheap but non-ideal light SC' for the nations with the path combo (of which there are a lot, and some have no other SC chassises available).

But yeah, i've run into that site in games. I didn't buy any because it was abso****inglutely obvious that a 14gem ench7 high path req thug chassis should not be coming from an 'Atlantean City' and costing 0gold.

Also, it was really funny watching an entire marverni army run away the instant it made contact with my thug. Fear +14, it pays the bills. The fun thing about strength of boars is that pre crystal shields, you can only cast it from your prophet (or maybe a druid communion). So if I know where your prophet is...

[Anaconda]

I would hope +12H or even +24H to the turn interval at 20 turns mark.

[Anaconda]

And also, theres a fine opportunity to claim a game: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=48660

(Or, for noobish, ruin one)

Some1, please come and take your seat among other great ones!

[krpeters]

BTW, I have a suggestion if we have a sequel to this game. We should name it "Power Beyond Justification". That way the acronym will be "PBJ". Yum!

[jimbojones1971]

Peanut Butter and Jelly?

Sounds like an excellent name for a map: "The Cosmic Deli of Peanut Butter and Jelly".

With all the nut allergies around, peanut butter sandwiches at school seem to be a thing of the past, at least where I am.

[Rejakor]

Nut allergies... whose allergic to nuts?

Just man up, and punch those nuts in the face with your tongue.

[Rejakor]

And now Aby has attacked me. To think, they were saying that I was going to kill them a short time ago. Oh well. It's time to show these fools the power of this FULLY OPERATIONAL BATTLE STATION

[Lung Drago]

Banishment! Banishment! BANISHMENT!

Changed hosting interval to 72 hours on request of HoleyDooley, gonna be away for 3 days, but might get a turn anyhow, as he said.

[Anaconda]

Keep that on for the second turn too, because I cant play incoming turn before thursday night anymore.

[llamabeast]

For that matter, the RNG itself may be considered a bug

I'm intrigued by this comment. What?

[Rejakor]

Probably 'my Tartarian got killed by a miltiaman!' usual complaint. It's not a bug, it's a feature.

[Rejakor]

In other news, Marverni managed to get a whole bunch of their javelineers killed this turn. Three cheers!

Although a number of ambibate nobles died in the doing of it.

EDIT: To be more specific, about 150 ambibate nobles and 100ish javelineers as well as about 40 PD got their butts handed to them by less than their number of mostly aka-oni. FULLY. OPERATIONAL. BATTLE. STATION.

[krpeters]

Hmmm, they actually didn't do that badly in the battle -- about 50% casualties, acceptable losses.

Having their retreat cut off, though, ouch.

Well, at least I don't have to worry about upkeep anymore! Thanks for getting rid of my javelineers for me! :)

[Anaconda]

Hmmm, they actually didn't do that badly in the battle -- about 50% casualties, acceptable losses.

Having their retreat cut off, though, ouch.

Well, at least I don't have to worry about upkeep anymore! Thanks for getting rid of my javelineers for me! :)



So, able to sub in Cursed be Iron?


Keep that on for the second turn too, because I cant play incoming turn before thursday night anymore.


My trip out of town was cancelled, so no need to accommodate my needs.

[Rejakor]

You insulted the Mountain King.

That was.. unwise. His goblininity doesn't respond well to.. lack of respect.

http://features.cgsociety.org/newgallerycrits/g99/408399/408399_1264657862_submedium.jpg

'You... insult me.'

[krpeters]

Death Star, meet Rebel Fleet

FULLY OPERATIONAL SPECTACULAR EXPLOSION

[Legendary League]

OOC: Can we reduce the turn intervals back down to 24-36 hours again?

[HoleyDooley]

Yes please.

[Anaconda]

I would say lets keep it at 48H...

[jimbojones1971]

I'll extend the timer after this turn hosts - 48 hours it is.

[Legendary League]

I'll extend the timer after this turn hosts - 48 hours it is.
OOC: Have to scale it back down from 72 hours first.

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Sorry about satle-ing again. Lost power yet again. I really "Need More Power!"

[krpeters]

Have you considered alchemising some gems into coal?

[Anaconda]

I would love to sell some water gems, if any1s interested in buying?

[Legendary League]

No, I'm sorry.

We can sell/trade you fire gems though! :0

[Anaconda]

Gents, we might want to get that turn interval down a bit, say 48-60H?

[HoleyDooley]

I would love to sell some water gems, if any1s interested in buying?


SOLD!!!!! To the big guy wearing the heavy fur coat!!!!!!!!

[Legendary League]

Hi Hi, anyone want to buy items? We can forge them for you, and we're going to have expanded wares soon too! Just no artifacts, sorry.

We'll charge fair prices, promise!

[mattyburn7]

Please note however that all those products are built on the slave labor of peace-loving lizards

[Legendary League]

We Norwegians do not use slave labor! Our Svartalfs and Vanir craft these items and trinkets by hand!

IF you were to visit one of our IKEA stores, that would be different. But that's Swedish, and they just use Finns.

[HoleyDooley]

Nothing like racial harmony in the world....lol.

[Rejakor]

If by racial harmony you mean 'kill those goddamn fire people and dirty asterix-wannabes' then sure. More like species harmony though.

[Rejakor]

Hmph.

It seems my thugs like to spam random spells and get killed thanks to fatigue.

No matter.

I don't need their filth.

I will have my victory the way I should have had it from the beginning.. with none of their cheap tricks and trinkets.. only COLD. ONI. STEEL.

HAIL THE INEVITABLE CYCLE OF DEATH AND REBIRTH.

[krpeters]

This is why I've given up on death combat magic -- any mage with D magic will kill himself with skellyspam given the opportunity.

[Rejakor]

Massed skellyspam is one of the strongest earlygame tactics full stop.

[Legendary League]

Until they bring out either massed priests or solar rays.

[krpeters]

Massed archers work too, though not as well as massed priests.

Think of it this way. Even if you're playing EA C'tis, which gives you the most bang for the buck (200 gold D3) it's easy for an equal gold value of priests or archers to clean up your summons. Four 50-gold H1's or two 100-gold H2's will punish them, as will a squad of 20 archers.

A 200 gold Hannya D2 raising skeletons is a complete waste.

[Legendary League]

OOC: Just so you guys know, I'm thinking of starting an AAR for this game starting turn 36 (so a 3-turn lag all told). I think that'll be enough to keep the information outdated enough for my own benefit.

IC: Lizards are sooooo nice and cuddly. <3

[mattyburn7]

Bah! Why do you suddenly have a glut of lizard-skin shoes in your lands!!

[Legendary League]

These are not lizard skin! They're faux-skin. PETA would've be have an uproar (well, more than normal).

[jimbojones1971]

Guys, looks like I will need a 12h extension.

[Legendary League]

Do what you want host.

[jimbojones1971]

Do what you want host.

MWAHAHAHA!

(But more seriously, I try to let people what I am doing in the interests of being fair.)

[jimbojones1971]

Guys, Abysia and Arco have both staled three times in a row. I'll see if I can find out what the go is, but in the interim I am adding another 24h extension. Both seem potentially viable (although Abby's army looks like it got smashed last turn), so if they are not coming back then subs could be an option.

[Anaconda]

My understanding is Arco is giving up; The enemy is at the gates with bigger numbers and stronger creatures? No extensions, let the game-social darwinism do its job!

[HoleyDooley]

Yes, but thats NOT a reason for people allow turns to drag out.

If they want to quit just go AI. Instead they say nothing, do nothing and the turns drag.

Thanks very much for your kind consideration to your fellow gamers!

Lung Drago and Darlian, two more names to add to my "never play with again" file.

[Anaconda]

Well, I wouldnt say few hours delay - let us say less than 12H in this particular instance - is really dragging out a game yet. Few extra time is handy to reconsider your turns, for example. Me, for instance, I send several versions of turns over few days. Fast pace means poor tactics and administration.

[HoleyDooley]

Condoning such behaviour doesn't sit well with me either. I am guessing Darlian is your mate.

If you need extra time then say so. Using it as an excuse for an "I couldn't care less attitude" from others is a bit lame.

[Anaconda]

Mine? Nope, I dont recall him from previous encounters. Lung Drago I met in the last I Need More Power -game, not before that - nor after either. Otherwise the post is a bit confusing: I, on the otherhand, was trying to say, that with fast host interval (48 or less) the game doesnt get delayed that much from my point of view. The interfering delays start only after when admin starts postponing the host still without reactions from stalers. But this is only me...

[Legendary League]

I will likely need a postponement after this turn is through (since my laptop is refusing to reboot and has been in startup repair for 24 hrs as of now). I can't say for how long, unfortunately.

[jimbojones1971]

I will likely need a postponement after this turn is through (since my laptop is refusing to reboot and has been in startup repair for 24 hrs as of now). I can't say for how long, unfortunately.

No worries, thanks for letting me know.

[jimbojones1971]

No response from Abby or Arco. It seems pretty clear Arco needs to be set to AI. I will get someone to check Abby for me and tell me if it looks viable - if not, AI too. Otherwise I'll troll the forums for a sub.

[jimbojones1971]

OK, Abby is probably still in the game, but Arco is dead.

When I get a moment I will post for:
a) a sub for Abby, with some description of where they are at (from what I know)
b) someone to turn Arco to AI.

Then, back on track!

[krpeters]

Just wanted to mark my agreement that good form is to at least go AI if you're in a hopeless position, and preferably to find a sub if your position is still playable.

[Anaconda]

...on the other hand we might want to note that AI really messes things up - more likely than not. If nation has some muscles, AI is preferred or simple stale... Now if we do the math, staling does not in fact delay the fast paced game much at all. The delays, as I have noted above start when adming starts postponing the automated host for the stallers. The greatest delays come from players who face force majors and thus cannot play for several days. If thise pile, the delay is somwhat upsetting. However, if there aint stallers in a game of 48H interval, we might save some 6H for each turn which means a full day for one complete week of turns... that not that much...

[HoleyDooley]

The delay is annoying and really avoidable, but certainly not a game breaker.

Staling though is a game breaker. At least the AI will build some troops and put up some kind of resistance as opposed to a free ride into the staler's capital for the lucky person who is fighting them.

[jimbojones1971]

It seems we have a sub for Abysia, and possibly for Arco. More details soon.

[HoleyDooley]

Good work as usual Jimbo.

[HoleyDooley]

Interestingly Calahan gives some good reasons NOT to go AI. Quoted below the next paragraph.

However, people SHOULD play the game out unless they have real life reasons not to. To walk away from a game in which you still have a part to play is pathetic. I KNOW there are players here who will continue to play as long as they have a chance of winning and drop out as soon as things go sour, despite their empire being strong enough to influence the game.

----------------------------------------

Mr Calahan...below.

There are several problems with natons turning AI, and why staling is the preferred option (or at least my preferred option), but for now I'll limit my reply to just the two main ones IMO.

1 - Turning AI is permanent. So while a sub can be found for a staling nation even after several stales, once a nation is set to AI and the turn hosts then that can't be undone (unless you rollback). So mainly because of this I'd rather anyone who has to leave the game suddenly and is unable to contact the admin (ie. real life emergency), then I'd much rather that they just walk out of the game without turning AI first.

As you'd be surprised how often this scenario occurs, and how often players in such a situation think they are doing the game a favour by turning their nation AI rather than just letting it stale. When in practice the exact opposite is the case. As while in theory it sounds logical that an active AI, no matter how poor, would be better than a staling nation, Dominions just doesn't comply with that theory. Even though I have no doubt other online MP games do (my online gaming exp is limited to Dom only, so have no knowledge of how other games play with AI nations)

Although an important aspect in this theory is often how caring and active the game admin is, as sadly some admins couldn't care less if nations are staling and show no corcern at all if their game is falling apart due to multiple staling or AI nations. But luckily for you all I'm a fantastic admin biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif and I do care about the quailty of the games I play in, and especially those I organise and admin. So unless I start forgetting to look left and right, then I certainly won't be letting this game become a staling or AI happy festival.


2 - The AI is dreadful. Really dreadful. If I personally had to choose between fighting a staling nation or fighting the AI, then from a difficulty prespective, and especially from a time needed to defeat them PoV (which is a critical aspect of MP games), then the AI is far easier to beat every time than a staling nation. Mainly because a staling nation can't suicide all it's troops, which is something the AI loves to do, and to the point where its play becomes 100% predictable. (although I'm sure Gandalf would disagree, as the AI is excellent in his mind)

Nowhere is this seen more clearly than in fort sieges, as if you park a Scout on an AI fort then it will always attempt to break siege with everything inside the fort because all it can calculate is an easy victory. So all you have to do is bait the trap with a Scout, then move all your forces in for an instant win. No tricky fort storms required ever, or any need to get sufficient numbers to break the walls down with repairers inside. Whereas if the nation was staling you'd both have to break the walls down of an occupied fort, and battle your way through the gate of the fort (if you lacked the magic and strategic option to win by other means, such as if it's early in the game). And doing that can take considerable time and effort that could genuinely cost you the game if it takes too long, but that time factor disappears against the AI because as I said, it will always attempt to break siege, enabling every fort to be taken in 2-3 turns.

[Jolly Roger]

Gentlemen,

did I miss something. I´ve already offered to join in as replacement player. Would prefer to play Abysia, but be happy with Arco too.

I´d returned a PM confirming my intention too.

Cheers, Klaus

[HoleyDooley]

However, people SHOULD play the game out unless they have real life reasons not to. To walk away from a game in which you still have a part to play is pathetic. I KNOW there are players here who will continue to play as long as they have a chance of winning and drop out as soon as things go sour, despite their empire being strong enough to influence the game.

By "here" I meant on the forums...... not those left if this particular game.

[Jolly Roger]

Dear friends,

I´m taking over for Arco. My real name is Klaus, I´m a MD from Germany. Not an experienced Dom3 player, but a semi-professional chess player and very experienced wargamer.
So better you drop me a mail in case we are at good relations..:D

However, have fun and enjoy the game.

Good luck,

Jolly Roger, King of Arco

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Youch! First salvo in my war against Atlantis, and my armies are crushed! Chaff does NOT like earthquakes!!

[jimbojones1971]

Welcome, Jolly Roger :-)

Very pleased to have you in the game. Dom3 is a lot of fun, and quite addictive (it has a very steep learning curve) so hopefully this is the start of many games to come with you.

[krpeters]

Wow, Pangaea has lots of troops. I guess someone took some disorder scales? Good luck feeding all that chaff!

[jimbojones1971]

Wow, Pangaea has lots of troops. I guess someone took some disorder scales? Good luck feeding all that chaff!

The chaff eats other chaff. It is like a perpetual motion machine, only with each iteration the act of eating chaff somehow introduces additional energy into the system resulting in exponential growth in the amount of chaff running around.

MA Ermor vs EA Pan would be awesome - chaff everywhere!

[Anaconda]

You can throw the pass to me, I can act as a sub admin when situation arises.

[Kungfoo]

Hey all,

I've taken control of Abysia. I'll do my best to honor all existing treaties and trade agreements, provided that they remain within our best national interests. I heartily encourage anyone we've had dealings with in the past to re-open any dialogues that may have been previously discarded, and also invite anyone we haven't met to take advantage of this opportunity to establish an ambassadorship in Abysia.

Although our nation has had some very public failings in recent months, I want to assure our allies that these were due to errors in policy and judgment by the administration of my predecessor, and NOT through any systemic weakness of our country or our people. I have already instituted sweeping economic reform, as well as instituting a new military training program and replacing senior officials with some whose tactics are (significantly) better-suited to winning today's wars.

Our present may be the smoldering embers of our recent past, but our future burns brightly.

- Abysia

[jimbojones1971]

We have turn files in for both Arco AND Abby - yay! Thanks guys :-)

And thanks for stepping up Anaconda - I'll flick over the password tomorrow sometime, and send out a message so people know.

[Kungfoo]

Well, this map is certainly nice and crowded - caves and ships for everyone! And wasteland, too. :D

I'd like to announce that the Abysian Grand Bazaar is now open for trading! We have many fine hand-crafted wares - fire brands and shields of gleaming gold for thugs, herald lances and flambeaus for dealing with those pesky undead/demonic neighbors, even flame helmets for people (or giants/monsters/whatever) looking to diversify. All available now, at fire sale* prices!

*pun mostly intended.

I'm also looking to acquire a couple pairs of earth boots, as well as some skull mentors, at very favorable rates.

Don't be a stranger! Let's make a deal.

[megawidget]

Youch! First salvo in my war against Atlantis, and my armies are crushed! Chaff does NOT like earthquakes!!

My greatest fear was that you wouldn't sign a NAP3 and would swarm me early on before I got the chance to research Earthquake, esp. since you have better scales and the resultant income. (I have about your income with twice the provinces.) Also you're the all-powerful R'lyeh while I'm the measly Atlantis. :p I tried some early war scenarios before we started play, and they were generally highly unfavorable to me.

Why did you let me research Earthquake? :hammer: I gather that Shark Attack was the research goal you were waiting for, but I don't think that tops Earthquake, which is easier to get, and annihilates your best troops...

[jimbojones1971]

Well, this map is certainly nice and crowded - caves and ships for everyone! And wasteland, too. :D

It is an awesome map, I have to say. And if you have a look higher up in the thread, you'll see that the Agarthan player (whose name eludes me, but shall always be "Lucy" based on their pretender in the first game that we played together) has done some work to tidy up the visuals if that appeals.

I'm potentially interested in trade (might even help me square the circle with another set of trades that I am working on), will get back to you on that (I am EA Ermor).

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Urgent!

I have to do some unexpected work-related travel from the 16th to the 19th. That's a too long for an extension, so does anyone think they could help find a sub? I'd really rather not stale- Im in the middle of a war with Atlantis!

Also, does anyone here want to help me sub in TheAscensionWars? It's really easy, I promise! If not, no big deal, Im not really invested in that game, being a sub myself.

[Anaconda]

My two cents are that 16-19 aint too much for extension: you can play before you leave and as fast as convenient when you get back so theres an extension of ...say less than 2 full days? After all its already >30 so a little bit longer turn wont hurt?

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

As long as everyone is fine with it, an extension would be great. However, I dont think I will be back until the late evening of the 19th, so it might be more than 2 days.

[megawidget]

As long as everyone is fine with it, an extension would be great. However, I dont think I will be back until the late evening of the 19th, so it might be more than 2 days.

I'm fine with an extension. Besides, what's the worst case scenario? You'll stale in a war with Atlantis. :rolleyes:

[Kungfoo]

I'm fine with an extension as well.

[krpeters]

Ditto -- there's no sense in getting a sub for 4 days. We can do a short postponement easily enough. (It's hardly the first!)

[krpeters]

I have to send out a big thank you to Yomi / Rejakor -- you've brought my upkeep down considerably! I can afford to buy mages again, yay!

[Rejakor]

I guess my Dai Oni fearstacking worked ONCE AGAIN. FEAR YOMI'S INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE USELESS BULL****.

[Anaconda]

God damn Arco is giving me hell. How thats even possible, they should have got 2 provinces, no resources etc. Apparently hes over taxing his capital, but anyways...

[Legendary League]

OOC: First turn AAR is a go (or should I say, zero turn AAR ahuehuehue).


Dimensionally Displaced Norwegians on a Quest for Lutefisk

So, this’ll be my first AAR, so be gentle. This will be played with the CBM mod, during the Early Age.

Turn Zero: Nation and Pretender Creation

I will be playing the nation of Helheim, Dusk and Death

http://i.imgur.com/CBQ6r.png

For those of you who are new or unfamiliar with Dominions 3, Helheim is a nation rooted in Norse mythology. It is a nation of Vanir, Norse elves, so to speak. It’s where Tolkien got his original inspiration for his Elves. And indeed, these elves are quite elvish. If by Elvish you mean sacrifice virgins on altars, glamour and hide themselves from the eyes of men, and, these Vanir in particular, guard the gates of Helhalla and provide passage through its halls. As an “Elvish” nation, so to speak, you can imagine them being a nation of rather elite troops. Indeed, each of the Van/glamour nations are able to recruit Van commanders (whom shall be be referred to as “ponymen” henceforth) that are able to take on armies by themselves if properly kitted and scripted. They also feature sacred troops that can clear PD just the same with a powerful “bless” from the pretender. But, we’ll talk more about those units later. First, let’s get to the nation and pretender creation.
If you are new to Dom3, I’ll explain this process more thoroughly. In the creation screen, you select multiple features which will dictate the flow of the rest of your game. First, you select your pretender “chassis”. What does you god look like? Will it be a titan who can take on armies solo with gear, or a frail human mage who can cast powerful magicks or forge rare artefacts? Each of these choices have their own point cost, which is deducted from a starting point total. For me, I will choose this chassis:

http://i.imgur.com/itzsC.png

This pretender is a human mage who claims godhood. Her combat stats, to put it frankly, suck. 10 is the human standard for the first four rows of stats. Because of that, she’s not getting into melee soon. However, she has precision 16 (which is big), and MR 18 (also big), which means she’ll be a great battlefield mage we can throw in and reasonably expect to survive random MR-negate spells (spells that need to get through an MR check), and throw out spells quite accurately (precision over 10 is doubled, so for our purposes she has a precision of 22). Because she is a mage, however, she also has very low point costs for new magic paths, which means she can be skilled in a lot of different paths; this is exchanged with her low dominion (1). Now, in terms of cost, she’s slightly more pricey than the normal human mage chassis (40 points compared to something like the Arch Mage which has 0), but that’s because she comes with Ethereal (the ghosty icon), which reduces the chance of “mundane” weapons and spells from hitting her by 75%, and the fact she gets one astral gem a turn. Those of you who are familiar with Dom3 will be confused by my choice of chassis: surely it would be better to pick a chassis with higher paths so you can afford a good bless with scales! I’m going to confound you, I think. Now, onwards to her magic paths:

http://i.imgur.com/KTlSj.png

Those of you familiar with Dom3 will be oogling at the sheer number of magic paths and levels I’ve fitted onto her. Here, I’ve combined a moderate bless (E9, for reinvig and protection, with minor NSW blesses for regen, MR, and Defense skill) with a high number of paths for diversity. All in all, this’ll give me a research value for my pretender of 36, not factoring in other conditions. Now, those of you who are familiar with Dom3 will be gasping at how I pay for her. Magic paths don’t come cheap (well, they do early on, but high levels of magic boosts are successively more expensive), and the ‘heims generally need a lot of gold to function. So, let’s see what awakening option I chose…

http://i.imgur.com/hHRon.png

…WHAT. IS. HE. DOING!?!?

Choosing an option like Dormant and Imprisoned means I don’t get my pretender at the beginning at the game: instead, they will spawn in around a year (or 12 turns) into the game if dormant, or 2-3 years if imprisoned. In exchange, you get a heaping of points to build your pretender with magic paths etc. I however, went with the awake option. Now then, you’re wondering how I paid for the rainbow bless? Well, its elementary my dear Watsons.

http://i.imgur.com/6KgXl.png

By taking **** scales and dominion of course! Every tick of scale towards the positive costs 40 points, while every negative tick (towards the right, or away from the center in the case of temperature) gives you 40 points. Here, I’ve picked absolutely terrible scales, that’ll give me horrendously bad gold income. Also, the drain. It would probably have been better to take some Death scales instead of Turmoil scales to buffer my early income, not to mention being thematic, buuuuut, I plan on blood hunting, and death scales+blood hunting=sadface. More on that later. But anyways, those of you experienced in Dom3 are wondering why the hell I’m playing with an awake rainbow mage, and paying for the bless with terrible scales and dominion. On Helheim (who, as we established previously, is very much gold starved). You’ll just have to keep reading to find out, eh?

[jimbojones1971]

Interesting AAR LL, looking forward to more revelations as the game progresses!

Four Dominion is a brave option. I went with five with Utgard once, and got domkilled by my neighbor (who had strong dom, good access to blood, and could blood sacc - it was like a tidal wave once he got rolling!).

[Anaconda]

I am more than interested in what remains ahead of us. However, I wouldnt be so brave my self and publish AAR yet - no matter its more interesting in this way (and in all possible meanings :D). Unfortunately, I didnt record detailed AAR in this game.

Instead, in the BloodSacrifice -game I am recording a detailed AAR, but aint gonna publish it before the game is finished (for me, or I won) because it offers accurate intel on my systems, that is.

[Kungfoo]

I think I'll very likely do an AAR as well, to give some perspective on what it's like to sub for someone else, and why you should never give up :D

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Ok, Im back! Thank you everyone for you patience!

[krpeters]

Wow, Arcoscephale has quite the turnaround on the income chart. Nicely done!

[Anaconda]

Wow, Arcoscephale has quite the turnaround on the income chart. Nicely done!

Yea, one can not tell what vile magic they are using...

[Jolly Roger]

Thanks for the flowers,

Arco was in a very bad situation when I took over control.
Wasn´t that difficult to improve the situation.
Time will come to break the Lanka Pocket...:angel


Thanks again for taking me in.

Cheers, Klaus

[jimbojones1971]

Thanks for the flowers,

Arco was in a very bad situation when I took over control.
Wasn´t that difficult to improve the situation.
Time will come to break the Lanka Pocket...:angel


Thanks again for taking me in.

Cheers, Klaus

Thanks for playing, Klaus! :-) Having active, involved players definitely improves the game for everyone.

[Anaconda]

Bunch of stales coming, in 30 mins.

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

It looks like you guys must have given me another extension- many thanks! I had assumed that my inability to go online was another of the periodic service deprivations to my building. Then I noticed that something (:confused:) had nibbled on my internet cable...

Anyway, problem solved, and hopefully no more delays!

[jimbojones1971]

It looks like you guys must have given me another extension- many thanks! I had assumed that my inability to go online was another of the periodic service deprivations to my building. Then I noticed that something (:confused:) had nibbled on my internet cable...

Anyway, problem solved, and hopefully no more delays!

Wow, that is tricky! Not sure what to do about that - armour plated cable?

I extended when I saw that both you and Rej (Yomi) were still outstanding - now that Yomi is also in, I will flick my turn in too and get it processed.

[swuu]

Can we do a 72h turn interval for turn 35? I won't be able to submit that one until tuesday morning.

[jimbojones1971]

Sure, no worries :-)

[swuu]

Damn, I'm really caught up in work lately, it's very hard for me to keep up with the turns :(. I will look for a sub.

[jimbojones1971]

Any progress on finding the sub, swuu? I'll defer the next turn until you submit this one, or find a sub who can.

[Anaconda]

Thanks for playing Klaus! I am sorry things were turning against Arco already before you stepped in. There wasnt prospects for peace anymore at that point. Hope to play with you later - and actually we are already :)

[jimbojones1971]

Is Klaus now defunct, after his heroic last minute stand? If so, we should see if he wants to take over Pan for Swuu - help two players out in one fell swoop!

[Jolly Roger]

Gentlemen,

no need for extratime. Completed my turn meanwhile.

In case there is anybody else, except of Ermor and Niefelheim who agreed in a NAP 3 with Pangaea, please let me know asap.


Regards, Klaus

[Jolly Roger]

I´ll need a time out from Thursday to Sunday,as I´ll be on a congress in Prague.:rolleyes:

Thanks, Klaus

[jimbojones1971]

Thanks Klaus! I will clear the turn, and we are back in business :-)

[megawidget]

FYI, all, I've gone AI. My capital has been conquered by R'lyeh, and frankly I'm hosed as I control mostly wasteland.

[krpeters]

Gaaaarrr... I staled... I didn't realize we were back on a more rapid turn schedule, I thought I still had time :(

Fortunately not much happened, other than missing the opportunity to requisition a few more stargazers. So I'll take it as a lesson learned and carry on!

[Anaconda]

Helheim, 2 stalls in row.

[HoleyDooley]

Hellheim and I at war the next turn as well......sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

[HoleyDooley]

Oh, I just checked, its LL playing Hellheim...forget it, he has bailed on all his games recently, I am guessing to some urgent personal business.

Jimbo, you are a busy man and about to get busier....we will need a sub for Hellheim.

HD

[krpeters]

Woa, talk about timing.

I guess my poor diplomacy upset him a bit. I suppose it is unkind to beg someone to forge items for you so you can defeat your opponent, then turn around and declare your intent to attack him?

To be fair, he was also providing items to my major opponent, who I would have crushed easily otherwise.

In the interests of going easy on whoever subs, I guess I'll delay my major offensive against Helheim until next turn.

[HoleyDooley]

Nah Krepters, it was nothing to do with you.

He bailed on all his games.

[mattyburn7]

Everyone: The mighty nation of C'tis is reduced to 1 besieged fort. I am also on vacation from 6/22 to 7/1. I'll try to get turns in, but don't fret if I stale. I'm not a factor at this point. Cheers

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Hi all! I will need a sub indefinitely starting 6/25. Im having lots of fun, but I'll be back-packing for a few weeks, and won't have a computer. After that amount of time, I don't think it would be fair to take Rlyeh back from the sub (assuming it survives that long), unless they get bored or something. So this is probably the end for me!

That said, I would like to play my turns until Monday.

So, does anyone know a sub who would be interested in my nation of mighty mind-fish?

[jimbojones1971]

Hrmmm, seems we need some new players for Helheim (now) and R'yleh (very soon).

[krpeters]

So are we pausing the game or moving on? I feel kind of bad about invading someone who is putting up zero resistance... but I can hardly sit by and do nothing while others eat him either.

[HoleyDooley]

Agreed.....I sit and wait, others get stronger yada yada....

I think pausing the game now is a must until a replacement is found.

[jimbojones1971]

We've got a Helheim sub - Fantomen.

Once I've got his email address, I'll send out a message to all players so that everyone can bring him up to speed on any relations that they have with him.

[jimbojones1971]

I'm also fishing for a R'yleh sub. I've propose to megawidget that he might want to take over R'yleh, let's see what he says - if he can, that would be an ideal outcome I think (since he knows the game, is a decent guy, and is reliable).

[Fantomen]

So I'm taking over Helheim.

Also Jimbo, I'm a she, not that it matters much.

Any diplomatic agreements will need to be renewed via PM or mail dom3turns(a)yahoo.se or else I'll consider them null and void, I'd also appreciate to know who I'm currently at war with.

[jimbojones1971]

Also Jimbo, I'm a she, not that it matters much.

Oops. I made the same mistake with Sensori. Maybe one day I will learn!

Welcome aboard :)

[Fantomen]

So it seems I'm at war with Niefelheim and Marverni. Anyone else fighting them, or wants to? Whoever drove this carriage before me did it by the book, everything is super neat and minimalistic, bordering on the weird. Now to think of a way to stop those niefels...

[jimbojones1971]

So it seems I'm at war with Niefelheim and Marverni. Anyone else fighting them, or wants to? Whoever drove this carriage before me did it by the book, everything is super neat and minimalistic, bordering on the weird. Now to think of a way to stop those niefels...

I don't border on either of those guys, but I think Yomi and Marverni may be in a punch up - then again, half the world seems to be trying to gank Yomi at the moment, so its kind hard to tell whose who in the mass of bodies at any given point in time :-)

[jimbojones1971]

Megawidget has kindly agreed to take over R'yleh from BewareTheBarnacleGoose, so we are good to roll on with the game!

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Megawidget has kindly agreed to take over R'yleh from BewareTheBarnacleGoose, so we are good to roll on with the game!

Great! I'll be off, then. Nice gaming with all of you!

[jimbojones1971]

Looks like Yomi may have left us. I'll contact Rej and see if he's still in or not - if not, sub time!

[jimbojones1971]

No Yomi. Time to find a sub, for whatever remains of this once great nation :-(

[krpeters]

Marveni has successfully researched the spell "destroy player". Beware of becoming my enemy! Every nation that has dared to oppose me has lost his player! :-P

[Fantomen]

Does this mean we're postponing this turn til we find a sub? Nice to know whether to prioritize this game tonight since the turns take a while to do.

[jimbojones1971]

Yeah, we will postpone Fantomen. +24h

[jimbojones1971]

We have a Yomi sub! Dojango has agreed to take over, and also to refuse to die, which should be good fun :-)

[dojango]

PM me whatever diplomatic agreements you have with the previous ruler and I will honor them as convenient.

[mattyburn7]

Fantomen: I see you are taking over Helheim. Here is our story. He invaded me and reduced me all the way to just my capital. Then he was so impressed by my stout and hardy defense that your predecessor promised to hand over ALL Helheim Lands, Gold and Gems to the brave lizardmen. And if you believe that I have some swampland in Florida to sell you :).

Please please put the lizards out of their misery!

[Fantomen]

I'll see what I can do, you're not a priority though, with the giants and druids and whatnot coming for coffee.

[jimbojones1971]

PM me whatever diplomatic agreements you have with the previous ruler and I will honor them as convenient.

I had a peace treaty that ran til turn 20. Ummm, that was a while ago I guess. Then again, we had a border back then, so things were different! :-)

[Anaconda]

Maybe we want to update the current player list here because the game has seen lots of replacements already?



Anaconda - EA Lanka, Land of Demons

Megawidget - EA R'lyeh, Time of Aboleths
(original player: BewareTheBarnacleGoose?)

Blubbernaught - EA Sauromatia, Amazon Queens

Darlian - EA Arcoscephale, Golden Era (DEFEATED)

HoleyDooley - EA Niefelheim, Sons of Winter

jimbojones1971 - EA Ermor, New Faith

krpeters - EA Marverni, Time of Druids

Fantomen - EA Helheim, Dusk and Death
(original player: Legendary League?)

[WHOs PLAYING?] - EA Abysia, Children of Flame
(original player: Lung Drago?)

mattyburn7 - EA C'tis, Lizard Kings

megawidget - EA Atlantis, Emergence of the Deep Ones (DEFEATED)

momfreek - EA Agartha, Pale Ones

Dojango - EA Yomi, Oni Kings
(original player: Rejakor)

swuu - EA Pangaea, Age of Revelry

Vanguard X - EA Caelum, Eagle Kings



So these are the current players?

When I get this straight, I will add the list to the Llama game page also and try to keep it update from now on.

[krpeters]

I'm still playing Marveni (badly :) and I can confirm that Legendary League was my ally, then my opponent, as Helheim.

[jimbojones1971]

Good idea about the list Anaconda, thanks :-)

Pangaea is now Jolly Roger, as Swuu had to sub out.
And Abysia is now Kungfoo.

Was pretty happy we made it through this last turn with no stales - go team!

[Anaconda]

Sure thing.

The current list is now up on the game page at Llama.

[Anaconda]

2 in row without stales. Hurraa!!

[Fantomen]

I might miss the deadline on this because of unforseen problems with a train, if you read this in time please give me an extension. (also PMd)

[Anaconda]

done

[Fantomen]

Thanks, I'll get it in tonight.

[jimbojones1971]

2 in row without stales. Hurraa!!

Yeah, its pretty good I have to say :-)

[momfreeek]

Abyssia is out. 3 provinces, no fort, 2 hostile units.

[jimbojones1971]

Abyssia is out. 3 provinces, no fort, 2 hostile units.

Yeah, that counts as fighting to the bitter end!

[krpeters]

Hmmm, ok, i'm toast.

So I've learned that an MR of 25+ is pretty immune to the usual slew of astral magic... Gifts of Heaven can't hit SCs... and that's about all I have available.

I'll keep on playing, but I'm not going to be useful for much.

It's sad that the AI isn't intelligent enough to try Stellar Cascades :(

[Fantomen]

Hey, does that mean my I won a battle?

Can't check right now, I'm in the forest by a lake smoking a fat one after a swim in the ****ing sunrise. (and checking the foras on my phone, how obsessed is that?)

[jimbojones1971]

All sounds very idyllic, Fantomen!

[Fantomen]

Yeah, waking five in the morning gets a whole new dimension to it when it's not because you're working shifts. :)

Oooh, look at that, charmed a niefel jarl. No wonder he was disapointed with only that puny frostbrand to play with, was that crone a grumpy old scrooge? Poor boy, here, let me give you some new toys!

[mattyburn7]

Dang. I thought you'd let me play around in the back yard for at least another 10 to 15 turns. Tell the Zmey to go away.

[jimbojones1971]

Oooh, look at that, charmed a niefel jarl. No wonder he was disapointed with only that puny frostbrand to play with, was that crone a grumpy old scrooge? Poor boy, here, let me give you some new toys!

Funny :-D

[HoleyDooley]

Yeah I have no answer to Hinnom, way too strong for me.

I have no idea whats going on in the rest of the world but my days are numbered and diminishing fast.

[Fantomen]

Don't confuse us, the proud sons and daughters of Hel, with those stinking cannibalistic giants!

[mattyburn7]

Me too. It looks like Helheim is going to squash the lizards once and for all.

[krpeters]

Is there anyone Helheim *isn't* squashing?

It's funny that I had to cast "destroy player" to get Helheim to do anything. Unfortunately, the replacement player has an MR too high for the spell to be effective... yet :)

On the brighter side, Helheim only has a few SCs, and they seem to be tied up elsewhere, so maybe I can claw something back!

[jimbojones1971]

I have cunningly put Agartha between me and Helheim. I have faith in the might of Agartha!

At least until Helheim's SCs start cloud trapezing / teleporting / whatever into the middle of my territory with no warning, of course. At which point I will cry, sad little two headed snake tears of disappointment.

[Fantomen]

Well, it's interesting how you seem to forget that Agartha is leading the game, increasing the lead every turn. So unless you're playing kingmaker, which is lame, Agartha is who you should focus on.

I'm not denying that I'm second in power, but I'm fighting 3 wars, the same 3 wars I was in when I took over.

Besides, putting someone "between yourself and Helheim" is a strategic disadvantage for you, should I decide to attack you.

[jimbojones1971]

Well, it's interesting how you seem to forget that Agartha is leading the game, increasing the lead every turn. So unless you're playing kingmaker, which is lame, Agartha is who you should focus on.

I'm not denying that I'm second in power, but I'm fighting 3 wars, the same 3 wars I was in when I took over.

Besides, putting someone "between yourself and Helheim" is a strategic disadvantage for you, should I decide to attack you.

Yeah, I was being silly. As I normally am. Pretty much nothing in my post was serious, other than the "OMFG AGARTHA IS SCARY!". Although he has been nice to my snake, so I am sure it will all be OK :-)

[Anaconda]

I put hosting interval up 12, being now 60H.

I need the extra hours this weekend, possibly, but because its getting late we might want to consider keeping it at 60H from hereon.

[Jolly Roger]

Just started invasion of Helheim territory.
Here comes Pangaea ! ;)

[mattyburn7]

The lizardsssss await liberation from the eveil Helheimians.

[krpeters]

So, two questions:

1) will 28 levels of horror marking actually do anything useful?

2) Can Astral magic do anything else useful against SCs with high MR? Unfortunately Stellar Cascades has a range of only 30 and can't hit one parked in the back during the script phase, and the AI won't cast it afterwards.

then again, I'd be in the same boat with air magic (easy enough for an SC to pop on a ring of RL)

[Fantomen]

Horror marking will cause progressively stronger horrors to randomly attack the marked unit, the stronger the marking the bigger the chance of attacks and the stronger the horror. If the marked unit is a SC that can deal with normal horrors it will eventually die when the doom horrors show up. A unit with astral magic that is horror marked can have returning scripted when not in the field. Horror marking sort of forces me to use my marked SC more aggressively to get as much out of them as possible before the doom horrors show up, and to gear them with expandable gear that I can afford to lose.

But horror marking is not a way to win battles short term, so it depends on your priorities. If you decide that the goal is to just cause maximum damage while going down then horror marking is a good choice because every marked SC will eventually die sometime, if your goal is to actually survive then it isn't.

You haven't used Gifts from heaven much, that is a pretty good anti SC spell if you can boost precision. Giving a druid eye of aiming and casting eagle eyes/gifts from heaven x4 is a pretty classic anti sc tactic. Mistform will protect against the first hit but usually gets popped by it.

[krpeters]

You haven't used Gifts from heaven much, that is a pretty good anti SC spell if you can boost precision. Giving a druid eye of aiming and casting eagle eyes/gifts from heaven x4 is a pretty classic anti sc tactic. Mistform will protect against the first hit but usually gets popped by it.

I tried some testing with this -- it worked surprisingly well. Druids start with Prec 12 and eye+eagle pushes it up to 22. I can actually hit stuff, wow.

That's awfully generous of you, btw, giving me ideas on how to beat you. OK, ideas on how not to lose to you so quickly. :) Thanks!

[Fantomen]

Well, it's more fun fighting harder opposition.

You can also do the same thing with blade wind against normal troops btw. And the whole concept can be boosted in a variety of ways, for example giving the druid a crystal shield or other booster, setting up a reverse communion, a normal communion with sequani slaves, reinvigoration items, and so on.

The baseline is: precision boosted druids spamming GoH or blade wind is pretty much the strongest card Marverni has, and being a vet subbing in a newbie game it would be unfair not to let you know that.

Keep in mind though that I'm aware of this, you don't know if you'll be fighting those SC or something else next turn. :p

[krpeters]

Given the way your SCs are bouncing around, I have no idea what I'm going to face next turn anyway!

I'm not so sure about blade wind -- isn't that pretty useless against troops with shields? Or decent armor? But it would have been nice against Yomi's hordes if they were still a threat at this point.

[Fantomen]

Yeah, blade wind is a bit situational. But with 22 precision it is devastating against a wide range of troops. And don't forget you can script destruction before blade wind against heavy armored troops.

Let's say you have 3 druids, screened by some living statues or the like, each scripted eagle eyes/destruction/destruction/blade wind/blade wind/spells. Heavy infantry will just evaporate. (note that destruction does not work against forged armor on thugs/SC)

[HoleyDooley]

Sorry need at least 12 hour extension on this one, limited internet access from time to time, and this one is one of those times.

HD

[Anaconda]

working on it

[HoleyDooley]

Ahh still missed it by the looks...sorry.

[jimbojones1971]

Ahh still missed it by the looks...sorry.

HD - if you PM me, it will pop up on my phone and I should be able to sort you out (since we are in the same time zone). Alternatively, if you want I can PM you my mobile # and you can SMS me (if you've got mobile reception wherever you are living now).

[HoleyDooley]

Cool Jimbo...

I am down to 1 province plus capital beseiged anyway.....so last legs so to speak.

HD

[Fantomen]

Agartha switched the light off.

Beware of the two awesome teleporting SC that comes with that global, I believe magic duel is the best counter to them.

[momfreeek]

wow, economic apocalypse. I didn't realise it did that.. Lets be friends fellow pretenders :o
:p

[Fantomen]

Fat chance.

Open the Seal is the same as Utterdark, and that is one the spells that are generally considered a declaration of war against everyone else. Just like Burden of time or Astral corruption it constitutes an aggressive action against all other nations. Diplomatic agreements, NAPs and the like, is generally considered null and void when one of those spells are cast.

[krpeters]

And as an added bonus the whole discussion of how to hit with GoH is entirely academic. My guys have a base precision of 4 now. Guess it's time to just fling randomly and hope for the best!

On the plus side, with no economy, economic ruination isn't a problem :)

[momfreeek]

Fat chance.

Open the Seal is the same as Utterdark, and that is one the spells that are generally considered a declaration of war against everyone else. Just like Burden of time or Astral corruption it constitutes an aggressive action against all other nations. Diplomatic agreements, NAPs and the like, is generally considered null and void when one of those spells are cast.Yeah, I've only ever signed 3 NAPs and two of those were broken without notice (astral corruption didn't go down too well). The third is looking shaky ^^.

Still, at least all my guys are awesome in the dark.. till they desert.

[krpeters]

Momfreeek: doesn't play well with others :)

But hey, this is Dominions, where the objective is to smash all other gods and rule the world! Having trouble with cooperation is pretty much a given!

[momfreeek]

Tbh, its cooperation that lead me to a prominant position in this game from such a crappy start (last game I was roleplaying a bully deliberately from a great start). Now I get the feeling I just threw it all out the window.. but we shall see how our allies respond.

[Fantomen]

Still, at least all my guys are awesome in the dark.. till they desert.

On the plus side here, sacred units don't desert. So all your mages and giant troops are safe.

[jimbojones1971]

I'm assuming summoned troops with 0 upkeep don't desert either - is this correct?

[momfreeek]

wow, thats great. Almost all my guys will fight for free!

[Fantomen]

I think that summoned 0 upkeep troops are safe from desertion just like sacreds, but I'm atually not 100% sure of it. I'll ask later in IRC since it could be useful to know in this game.

Also keep in mind that some summons, like trolls, do have upkeep and can desert.

[Fantomen]

That'll teach me to forget probing defence before storming forts, 238 living ****ing statues! And against those petrification immune lifeless buggers I send a SC with the stone sword and life draining vampires. *facepalm*

At least I killed some druids.

And now I have a definite answer regarding desertion: Units with the sacred tag, commanders, and zero upkeep units (ie. those that have 0 gold cost) don't desert.

[dojango]

Wow, that "Undo the Seal" spell is pretty metal. Haven't seen it in action before. Not only is it utterdark, but for 80D more you get three pretty sweet SCs; a fallen angel, a forgelord and a gemgen titan. Something to watch out for.

[krpeters]

Yeah, I knew my druids weren't going to do much -- although I didn't expect they would do such a fine job of killing my statues. Did you manage to kill any, or was that all me?

No doubt you'll find a good way to kill the rest before I can replenish them!

[momfreeek]

And now I have a definite answer regarding desertion: Units with the sacred tag, commanders, and zero upkeep units (ie. those that have 0 gold cost) don't desert.thanks. It begs the question: why did I ever pay these sacred guys? Now I'm getting value for money!


Wow, that "Undo the Seal" spell is pretty metal. Haven't seen it in action before. Not only is it utterdark, but for 80D more you get three pretty sweet SCs; a fallen angel, a forgelord and a gemgen titan. Something to watch out for.Yeah, I can't complain ^^

[jimbojones1971]

And now I have a definite answer regarding desertion: Units with the sacred tag, commanders, and zero upkeep units (ie. those that have 0 gold cost) don't desert.thanks. It begs the question: why did I ever pay these sacred guys? Now I'm getting value for money!

Demand a refund? You are pretending to be a god, after all ;-)

[jimbojones1971]

The light - it burns! My eyes, my poor eyes!

[krpeters]

OK, I'm toast. Someone please turn me (Marveni) AI.
(I'd do it myself, but I figure someone might be feeling masochistic and wants to try and win with two seiged castles and no commanders)

[jimbojones1971]

OK, I'm toast. Someone please turn me (Marveni) AI.
(I'd do it myself, but I figure someone might be feeling masochistic and wants to try and win with two seiged castles and no commanders)

Just because of the duplicate license key issue, would you be able to turn yourself AI pretty please? :-)

[krpeters]

Duplicate license issue? Huh? I was thinking the game admin should use the "set player to AI" on the llamaserver option.

But OK, sure, I can nuke myself too :)

[jimbojones1971]

Duplicate license issue? Huh? I was thinking the game admin should use the "set player to AI" on the llamaserver option.

But OK, sure, I can nuke myself too :)

That link is a trap, a trap I tell you!

It basically has a blurb telling you that the llamaserver can't actually automatically set a nation to AI, and that you need to get someone to set it to AI using a licensed version of Dom3 that is NOT submitting turns to the game.

Yeah, I got caught out by that too - quite a surprise when I tried to use it! :-)

[krpeters]

Well that's something of a weird option. I can see why there's a restriction on players using it (we don't want people setting their opponents AI :) I wonder how it works (or if it works at all)

[Fantomen]

I have to go out of town over the weekend, leaving tomorrow morning. Turned out you can't reach the internet where we're going, so I need a postponement until monday.

[jimbojones1971]

I have to go out of town over the weekend, leaving tomorrow morning. Turned out you can't reach the internet where we're going, so I need a postponement until monday.

OK, doing it now.

[Jolly Roger]

Hi Jimbo,

as announced I´ll be on vacation from August 14th-23rd.

TIAVALS will replace me, please set Pangaea asap to his email

address.

I´ll inform Tiavals about the situation and relationsships of

Pangaea.

Thanks, Klaus

[jimbojones1971]

Will do, Klaus.

Sorry for the stale last turn everyone - life got crazy. Should all be good from now though.

[jimbojones1971]

I'm going to delay until Agartha is able to submit - at this point, i think (from a game fun perspective) it's best we avoid one of the two major contenders getting a stale.

[Tiavals]

I'm having some weird problems subbing for Klaus. It says the turn file is corrupt, even after I've redownloaded the turn, the map and the mod.

Anyone have a clue as to what's going on?

[Fantomen]

Letting Agartha stale at this stage is not an option if he's going to stand a chance.

Edit: seems like It's Lanka that's about to stale. Overall Lanka has been strangely passive in this game so far, hard to see what the plan is. Since Pans turn is in I take it Tiavals managed to sort that out?

[Tiavals]

Nah, Klaus hasn't gone to his holiday yet, so he did that last turn. The next turn and the rest have been turned to me, so the problem isn't solved.

[Fantomen]

That's weird.

My spinal jerk reaction is you managed to download the wrong mod or map, or isn't patched properly. But wrong mod usually gives a message about the mod being amiss, and wrong map usually just crashes game to desktop... And an unpatched game would prevent you from playing any MP games at all...

Since Klaus can play the turn, that means the turn file HE got was NOT corrupt, so it's definitely not an actual failure in the turn generation or the llamaserver. That means the issue is either on your part (client problem or mod/map failure etc.) or with your mail provider/download process.

I assume you have already tried a couple resends to make sure it's not an issue of the file being corrupted in the download process? I would also try another mail service to make sure the problem is not a failure with their file management. This has happened before, a change of mail provider solved it that time.

Try playing a turn file from a couple turns back and see if you get the same problem. If you do NOT get the same problem with that turn file, then the problem IS with the actual current turn and not with your client/mods/maps, but if you DO get the same problem then the problem IS with your client/mods/maps.

Ok, so assuming the old turn has the same problem and mail service malfunction is ruled out:

What I'd try first is DELETING the map and mod and THEN reinstalling them, and also reapply the latest patch to the game. Sometimes a blunt instrument catches the glitch in the process...

If nothing else works I'd recommend doing a clean install, patch, and adding the map and mod. You can do it in a separate directory so no need to uninstall the game first.

If all the above fails, you could PM Edi or take the problem to dom3mods and we'll let the more code savvy vets there look at it.

[Fantomen]

Also note that we are playing on the World of Warhammer map, not on Alexander as listed in the game description in the OP.

The proper map is here: http://dom3maps.wikidot.com/system:worldofwarhammer

[Tiavals]

Embarrassingly, I hadn't tried the resend for the turn. Something must've gone wrong with llamaserver. Now it works. :)

Thanks for the tip.

[Anaconda]

So, whats up with new turn?

[jimbojones1971]

So, whats up with new turn?

Hey Anaconda. I think the timer just ticked over? Are you OK with submitting turns at the moment, or do you need a pause?

[Anaconda]

So, whats up with new turn?

Hey Anaconda. I think the timer just ticked over? Are you OK with submitting turns at the moment, or do you need a pause?

Aw, thats right. I got error message but it considered another game. Sorry about that. I draw lines between the error msg and the game because I did submit the turn but host didnt seem to have received it :/

[jimbojones1971]

So, whats up with new turn?

Hey Anaconda. I think the timer just ticked over? Are you OK with submitting turns at the moment, or do you need a pause?

Aw, thats right. I got error message but it considered another game. Sorry about that. I draw lines between the error msg and the game because I did submit the turn but host didnt seem to have received it :/

Yeah, I am playing in a few games (subbing into three for a friend who is on holiday) and am finding it a real struggle to keep them all separate!

[momfreeek]

oops.. 1 min late :/

Seems there's not much I can do to stop Helmeim anyway.. at least I don't know what I could do.

[Fantomen]

Damn, I thought that lack of action looked suspicious. Now those battles feel a bit cheap.

Frankly I don't see how you could stop me in the long run either. I have only deployed my raiders, not my armies. And my main army carries the gatestone so can teleport, I'm just being careful to find out exactly what you have before dumping it on your cap. And while your Grendelkins are impressive, I don't believe they will stand up in the long run, I simply have the the resources to send in 5 times the number of SC you have at this point, producing new each turn. And I still haven't fallen back on kitting out vanjarls to anti SC, which I would if I had to deal with any serious raiding in my homelands.

If you were to march a big army against me you're looking at fighting 200+ recycling vampires under fog warriors, army of gold, rush of strength and rigor mortis etc. each step of the way (a way that gets longer for each slave I'm saccing to push my dom) while my main army teleports to take your castles before teleporting back home to beat whatever my vampires couldn't. All the while my raiding would go on with increased intensity. So unless you can both fight your way through that vamp defence and defend your homelands I don't see the tide turning.

That's not to say I would win fast or easy, you've been playing extremely good for a new player from what I've seen so far, especially considering you're fighting so many enemies at once. And you might have resource cards up your sleeve that I haven't seen yet.

The possibility I DO see is if you can make everyone else gang up on me right now, and muster a coordinated attack to force me back in defensive mode. That would let you retake your lands while my raiders fall back to defend. But that is supposing the combined punch outweighs my own counterstrike, which I'm not sure it will. And it would surely require dispelling the forge, or I will just be able to kit out far too many thugs and SC. But the likely leader after such a move, if sucessful and you kill me, is most likely to be Ermor I think.

I think Open the seal was a honeytrap in the situation you cast it. I believe it hurt you more than more than me to lose all the income, I was already pretty much a gem/blood economy and it didn't slow me down at all. While you would have made better use of the gold to push your PD to get darkness and buy more mages while using the death gems for massive remote raiding. Those ghouls would have been a different level of attack if made when you cast the seal and landing on every province I had while I was still fighting Niefelheim and Marverni. That + several blights at at my high income castles would have shut both my gold and my blood economy down.

But it's always too easy to say stuff like that in hindsight.

[Tiavals]

And this is a newbie game? Wow. :D

[jimbojones1971]

Been struggling with some dental pain, sorry guys.

I'd be game to do stacks on Helheim for a few turns - everyone else in? Not sure it will help, but Fantomen is an experienced vet who seems happy to give advice, so it could be a good end game learning experience. :-)

[momfreeek]

I'd never considered arouse hunger before.. real cheap and not so weak its pointless. I could have spammed it with my one turn of utterdark, that would have been awesome! I never considered income reduction spells either but I see how its easy to determine the high income provinces.

[Anaconda]

Lanka will stand with the lady.

[jimbojones1971]

Lanka will stand with the lady.

Helheim?

[Fantomen]

I need a 24h delay.

[Anaconda]

Done.

[megawidget]

Hey all I'm flying out on vacation this evening, so this is the last turn I will be able to take before the 4th. I didn't want to delay the game, so I asked jimbojones1971 for a sub (though only a few days back).

[jimbojones1971]

Hey all I'm flying out on vacation this evening, so this is the last turn I will be able to take before the 4th. I didn't want to delay the game, so I asked jimbojones1971 for a sub (though only a few days back).

I will look for a sub.

[jimbojones1971]

Currently rattling the donation tin with various people I know and trust, to see who'd like to temporarily sub for R'yleh.

[Fantomen]

I need a 24h extension

[Fantomen]

With Ermor and R'lyeh staling twice in a row, pretty much giving up the initiative of turning the tide against me, and with me, Yomi, Lanka and Pangea still fighting Agartha. I don't see any chance of Agartha surviving in the long run, despite momfreeks excellent playing. And I don't see anyone else posing a threat to me either when I get stronger with every turn due to my considerable resource advantage.

I could easily afford 5 times my current losses and still have a steadily growing power curve.

We could play it out, but for me it isn't really satisfying to put so much effort, my turns take over an hour to play and micro, into such a predictable result. So I'd like to either claim victory by concession or find another sub.

I will keep playing if you insist.

[megawidget]

I returned from my trip to Mexico to find that the sub for me wasn't found, and that yes, both me and Ermor staled. ): And that for some bloody reason a crusade against you hasn't been declared yet (?).

I agree that playing at this point is rather pointless, and am willing to concede defeat. I suck at subbing anyway. :/

With Ermor and R'lyeh staling twice in a row, pretty much giving up the initiative of turning the tide against me, and with me, Yomi, Lanka and Pangea still fighting Agartha. I don't see any chance of Agartha surviving in the long run, despite momfreeks excellent playing. And I don't see anyone else posing a threat to me either when I get stronger with every turn due to my considerable resource advantage.

I could easily afford 5 times my current losses and still have a steadily growing power curve.

We could play it out, but for me it isn't really satisfying to put so much effort, my turns take over an hour to play and micro, into such a predictable result. So I'd like to either claim victory by concession or find another sub.

I will keep playing if you insist.

[momfreeek]

I think I'm cooked enough. I'll defend the glorious wastelands of Agartha till the last but there's nothing to play for. Every turn brings new foes that I have no idea how to deal with ^^.

[Tiavals]

Sub for Pangaea here:

Agartha had pretty darn bad luck in my battle against him. A lucky charm got his artifact-equipped Grendelkin on my side.

I don't know much about the global situation or the power structures, so I have no idea if I'd have a chance in the big picture.

[Anaconda]

Peaceful Lanka aint in war with no-one.

[momfreeek]

Sub for Pangaea here:

Agartha had pretty darn bad luck in my battle against him. A lucky charm got his artifact-equipped Grendelkin on my side.

I don't know much about the global situation or the power structures, so I have no idea if I'd have a chance in the big picture.I didn't have much hope for winning this. The army of earth elementals I prepared to roll over the massed ranks of chaff got caught out of position and was slowly eaten by a couple of zmeys last turn. That was painful to watch >.<

[Anaconda]

So are fighting on, or declaring the winner?

[Fantomen]

Yeah, please cast your votes. I'd like to know if I should play another turn.

I'm 100% confident I would win even with everyone allying against me, which doesn't seem to be happening anyways. A coordinated attack from everyone a few turns ago could have made a difference, but now it won't. So I vote for ending now.