Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running

[Lung Drago]

Have you ever had that feeling you can tear asunder the entire world if you just let it all go? Yes?! Then welcome to the club!

This game is a continuation of sorts to a previous one, I Need More Power! (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=47704). Fraction of that player base moves to this game - slowly building over time a trusted RP group to have great times with! ^^ That isn't saying "Shoo! Go away!' at all though! If you are up to some free, on-the-fly RP in your forum posts (as you may have noticed, I don't write an awesome introductory world story even though I may have the capacity to do so; your power shall be unrestricted!), then go ahead and join us! We welcome talkative and creative people because we enjoy playing with them!

Bear in mind this is still a newbie game. I am not going to set some "played game limit" as it looks silly to me, but please do think over if your level of skill will make the game enjoyable for you as well as for others :)

On to the technical stuff:

Method: llamaserver PBEM game :)
Mods: CBM 1.92
Map: Alexander (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com//showthread.php?t=37295)
Era: Early Age
Strength of Indies: 5
HoF: 15
renaming on
Graphs on
Picked nations
Research: Normal
Gold multiplier: 100
Resources multiplier: 100
Supply multiplier: 100
Diplomacy: Machiavellian type with a single exception of a NAP3, which you are bound to honor (namely the 3 turn period), all nations are to be hostile to each other at the start of the game. Role-Playing encouraged :)
Turn frequency: 36h, with more hours added as micromanagement rises
Game will be administrated by two people (me and jimbojones) to cover all time zones, we won't let random unfortunate stales slip if they don't happen often/regularly :smirk: If you run into any kind of trouble that will leave you unable to send your turns for a period of time, certainly make us aware of the fact so we can deal with it (proclaim holidays, find subs, you know the stuff) :)

If you have concerns about any of the settings, let your voice be heard. Contemplate on it we shall.

List of currently enrolled players: (14)

Anaconda - EA Lanka, Land of Demons
BewareTheBarnacleGoose - EA R'lyeh, Time of Aboleths
Blubbernaught - EA Sauromatia, Amazon Queens
Darlian - EA Arcoscephale, Golden Era
HoleyDooley - EA Niefelheim, Sons of Winter
jimbojones1971 - EA Ermor, New Faith
krpeters - EA Marverni, Time of Druids
Legendary League - EA Helheim, Dusk and Death
Lung Drago - EA Abysia, Children of Flame
mattyburn7 - EA C'tis, Lizard Kings
megawidget - EA Atlantis, Emergence of the Deep Ones
momfreek - EA Agartha, Pale Ones
Rejakor - EA Yomi, Oni Kings
swuu - EA Pangaea, Age of Revelry
Vanguard X - EA Caelum, Eagle Kings

[Austen]

I'd really love to play, but I'm not sure this would be the right game for me. With a grand total of zero under my belt, the skewed starting numbers would prob be suboptimal. I also don't RP generally. If you guys need more players, let me know though.

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

I would love to rejoin you guys! Count me in!

[Vanguard X]

I would like in. Preferably as the angelic Caelum order if possible. :angel

[Adam J]

I'd like to play! Tien Chen if possible. Its my first time trying multiplayer.

[Legendary League]

I'd absolutely love to pick up another MP game. I've played alot of Helheim in EA, but I'm thinking of picking up a different nation for that era.

[jimbojones1971]

Since I played MA Ermor last time, I think I'll take EA Ermor for a spin this time :-)

[jimbojones1971]

Looks like MightyPeon is already in a lot of games, and will need to sit this one out.

Can I suggest Urraparrand as the map? It's 145 land + 35 sea provinces, and (as the name suggests) is rap-around map, so no corners.

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

How do you guys feel about aquatic nations? I notice that some people dont like to play with them. If you do, I would be interested in EA R'leyh.If not, I could pick something else.

[Lung Drago]

How do you guys feel about aquatic nations? I notice that some people dont like to play with them. If you do, I would be interested in EA R'leyh.If not, I could pick something else.

Personally I have nothing against them, we had Atlantis in our previous game... they are another layer on the strategical level; without them, water provinces are really just a landmark. It may be feasible to have 2 of them on a bigger map though.

Looks like MightyPeon is already in a lot of games, and will need to sit this one out.

Can I suggest Urraparrand as the map? It's 145 land + 35 sea provinces, and (as the name suggests) is rap-around map, so no corners.

Map boils down to how many players we end up with. I'd like to keep the recruiting phase going a little longer than before, simply because I have to wrap up few things IRL and should be ready to commit fully by the end of this week. But I agree it is a nice similar-sized map we had before.


Added the rest of you to the Grand List of Honor. :D Welcome aboard.

[Legendary League]

Glory of the Gods (MP) is always a nice, large map, for lots of fun. :p

[redmage]

I would like to join in as Van.

[cux47]

put me in and I will be the cursed giant: Fomoria

[momfreeek]

I'm in! I'm not sure what race to play yet.. will try some things

[HoleyDooley]

Neifelheim thanks.

[parone]

i am a pretty good role player but just a terrible player in general(2 MP lifetime, pretty miserably failing in both).

can i ask why you jacked up all the resourced gold? makes scale creation kinda redundant, doesn't it? also, with EA, there should be plenty of magic sights anyway...

[HoleyDooley]

Couldn't agree more parone.

I have played quite a few MP game snow and am still to get past mid game. All my scales (now) revolve around maxing out income as much as possible whilst still having some use for my pretender other than to hang my hat on when I get home.

This is an extraordinary game, but no game is perfect. Would certainly like to see income scales reduced in effectiveness. Having said that, I haven't been round a long time, so maybe my thinking is wrong on this point.

[swuu]

I'm in... picking Pangaea. I would also to see the scales set to standard in order to let me learn the game better.

[parone]

i guess im saying if you jack up resources/gold, then there are few advantages to taking good scales. and since EA has lots of magic sights(it says that in the book, anyway) why would you increase those?

i'd love to join, as i am really bad at the game and this seems more my speed, but i kinda think jacking up the initial gold resources would make for an odd gaming experience

[HoleyDooley]

parone...are you trying to get me flamed!!!!!! LOL.

Mate I am a 3 1/2 month noob to the game. But this is how I see it anyway.

Higher income allows you the ability to purchase more units and at the start and hire mercenaries. This translates in usually more provinces captured early which usually translates into purchasing more units, which usually translates...etc etc.

Thus you can build castles quicker and hire more mages to help your research etc etc.

Now being a noob, I am sure an experienced player would refute what I am saying and build scales not abundant with income and kick my butt. In general though this is how I see the games progress.

Hey, I am sure there are others with thoughts on this.

My noobish thoughts from experiences to date...and a lot to learn still.

[mattyburn7]

I'd like to jump in as C'Tis

[Lung Drago]

Now that I think about it, your concerns about the multipliers are actually valid. While I wouldn't look at it like it screws up scaling of scales (it does not, with scales, you simply crank up even more troops from a single fort), what it does in general is speed up the game, especially the early phase. It does have few other noob-friendly quirks about it, for example if you screw up your initial expansion and get owned by independents it's easier and quicker to boot yourself back up.
But as I think about it now, it can have unpleasant effects too. What actually came to my mind and is a good example, are nations that have capitol-only good researchers. A nation than has recruit-anywhere option gets significantly bigger advantage from these multipliers than a nation relying only on it's capitol... This "issue" is of course always there, but a resource/gold multiplier easily makes the gap bigger and out of bounds.
And a very valid point is that usually, multipliers are left on default for most games and that's something we are/need to be accustomed to.

So, changing all multipliers to default values is sensible. If no one has any objections, let's set them on default.

Regarding the magic sites mentioned, to be honest, I copy pasted the settings from our previous game but color me blind, I don't see magic site multiplier changed. I don't recall changing that in the previous game ever, this is supposed to be default.

Also, let me welcome more new players! My current plan is keeping this game open to join 'till Friday or until we reach, say, 18 players, which ever comes first. I enjoy long games with plenty of space to expand, but there are extremes on both sides and a game with 400+ land provinces would be simply insane :D

[Blubbernaught]

I'm interested in this one! Been hoping to find an EA game to jump in where being an incompetent n00b isn't an automatic death sentence.

EA Sauromatia is my choice to try this time.

[parone]

if you guys are switching the scales to default, i'd like to get in. but if you don't, that's ok too.

i have never really played EA(well, i have only played 2 games to be honest with you). i have no idea who to take. ok if i get back to you in a day or so(i know a lot will be taken by then, that's ok)

[krpeters]

Is there still room for another? A game with this many players ought to be very noob friendly :) I'd like to jump in as Marveni if it's still open.

[Legendary League]

Yeah, think I'm going to stick with Helheim. I think my gameplay style is markedly different from it (more like MA Ulm, for example), but it works for me.

[megawidget]

I never played Dominions 3 multiplayer -- and I'm sure I am mediocre at single player -- but I'm somewhat inclined to join, if you need more players. I would also prefer default multipliers and indie strength though.

I don't know which race I'd like to play yet, though I'm leaning towards Yomi assuming they were made to suck less in CBM. But I can just pick one of the remaining races and then complain to everyone about my choice. That's OK right? :re:

If you're full, I'm thinking of trying to organize a complete newbie game for the overflow players and whoever else would be willing join.

[Legendary League]

Also, I would move to turn off score graphs. It would make keeping a large spy network (as well as a network of informing play-, I mean, birds) more important.

[Lung Drago]

Actually, if I count well, you may have just taken the 18th spot, megawidget. Congratulations :D
So many people pouring in I am scratching my head now. I remember when I first started dominions 3 and grew fond of it, I thought "Yet another game no one ever plays." Boy, I was apparently wrong.

Not everyone has a nation picked yet, but I'm OK with it. We have now some breathing space to discuss the map. Since we amount to 18 players, we need a somewhat bigger map indeed. So, what lands shall host our epic carnage?
Cradle of Dominion and Glory of the Gods both seem appealing to me. There's also Westeros, but that map is...unique and would certainly make for an..interesting game indeed. Thoughts?

Oh also I noticed Anaconda didn't post here yet. Since he comes from our previous game and voiced the rematch, it may just be he missed this game. Will PM later this day. It's a possible 1 slot open, though.

EDIT: Regarding score graphs suggestion above: I don't consider graphs off as a newbie friendly option. It sure is more...realistic, but you do have uses for spies even with graphs on. Not to mention llamaserver has it's own graphs anyway, these aren't turned off I think?

[Legendary League]

Not everyone has a nation picked yet, but I'm OK with it. We have now some breathing space to discuss the map. Since we amount to 18 players, we need a somewhat bigger map indeed. So, what lands shall host our epic carnage?
Cradle of Dominion and Glory of the Gods both seem appealing to me. There's also Westeros, but that map is...unique and would certainly make for an..interesting game indeed. Thoughts?
Cradle seems to be too crowded, though it's certainly an option. ~12ish provinces per player definitely sounds like a challenge, though some bless-rush nations will do a good job messing up late game nations if they're map positioned poorly. Orania (with the special sites turned off, via llamaserver), or Glory of the Gods (the MP version) offer much more room for players (though since Orania has much larger fronts, chokepoints are rare: GotG seems to me a happy medium between the two maps). But that's my vote. :p

EDIT: Regarding score graphs suggestion above: I don't consider graphs off as a newbie friendly option. It sure is more...realistic, but you do have uses for spies even with graphs on. Not to mention llamaserver has it's own graphs anyway, these aren't turned off I think?
To the second, they turn off if you turn off score graphs. That's what happened with the BSoD game I've been running (and really, the diplomacy and intel sharing has, thus far, been quite dynamic [at least from what I've experienced). To the first, that's one way of looking at it. Another is that it means players need to interact and communicate more (thus room for more RP!), and it doesn't necessarily punish someone for doing well. I understand entirely of course if you'd prefer to leave it on, it just seems to be more interesting. :)

[megawidget]

I'd like score graphs on, if only to keep track of my own incompetence!

Since I'm not yet decided on Yomi (looks like they might suck only slightly less in CBM compared to vanilla), I could play as Atlantis if it looks like the maps you're choosing from have too many water provinces for just R'lyeh. Otherwise I'm also considering Mictlanka, just to try my hand at blood magic -- something I haven't played around with yet.

[Legendary League]

I'd like score graphs on, if only to keep track of my own incompetence!

Since I'm not yet decided on Yomi (looks like they might suck only slightly less in CBM compared to vanilla), I could play as Atlantis if it looks like the maps you're choosing from have too many water provinces for just R'lyeh. Otherwise I'm also considering Mictlanka, just to try my hand at blood magic -- something I haven't played around with yet.
Ah blood magic.:D

Both Lanka and Mictlan were effectively nerfed this CBM with the removal of SDR (they rely on hordes of cheap B1 hunters with SDRs to accumulate masses of slaves). LA, in my opinion, is a better age to try out blood (also much fiercer competition: Ulm, Bogarus, Abysia, Marignon, Midgard, Utgard, and Mictlan [Patala to an extent] all compete for the same summons). Though Mictlanka are still definitely really good (blood is just...an awesome tree to get into. Especially when combined with Astral. How many send horrors do you need to cast till you send out a Doom horror, you think? ;) )

[megawidget]

Both Lanka and Mictlan were effectively nerfed this CBM with the removal of SDR (they rely on hordes of cheap B1 hunters with SDRs to accumulate masses of slaves). LA, in my opinion, is a better age to try out blood (also much fiercer competition: Ulm, Bogarus, Abysia, Marignon, Midgard, Utgard, and Mictlan [Patala to an extent] all compete for the same summons). Though Mictlanka are still definitely really good (blood is just...an awesome tree to get into. Especially when combined with Astral. How many send horrors do you need to cast till you send out a Doom horror, you think? ;) )

I've read that blood magic is incredibly powerful. But yes, I've noticed that they effectively got nerfed in CBM. On the upside though sabbaths no longer use blood slaves, so that might make up for it. Slightly.
If we go with Cradle of Dominion, I think I'm going to go for Mictlan instead of Yomi and see how I do -- it'll be a bit tight I guess at 11.7 land provinces per land player, but probably quite manageable. If we go with Glory of the Gods MP though, I think I should be Atlantis to make sure R'lyeh doesn't hoard all the water. :smirk:

[Legendary League]

I've read that blood magic is incredibly powerful. But yes, I've noticed that they effectively got nerfed in CBM. On the upside though sabbaths no longer use blood slaves, so that might make up for it. Slightly.
Doesn't really matter too much. Blood really needed the nerfbat, have to say. When someone with absolutely no blood access (MA Ulm, for example) can blood hunt and empower someone to start up a moderate blood economy (to get blood stones), something's broken. Still an amazingly powerful school though. Claws of Inferno/Cocytos is amazing against SCs, and combining horror marking with send/call horrors (or the occasional Hellpower suicide sabbaths) can be extremely difficult to deal with.

That being said, blood does have counters. Wishing armageddons hurts blood economies really badly, for example, and unrest raising remotes/thug raiding also hurts them. Spies too, for that matter. It's also so micro intensive, esp. Mictlan (who need to constantly blood sac to maintain dominion).

But yeah, try it out. Blood summons are awesome (get em before I do, because the 'heim's also have blood hunting potential through Vanjarls [got buffed so they have 50% chance for B2, so they're better hunters without SDR].

[megawidget]

Testing them out in SP.

Egad, CBM's changes make mages do truly idiotic things. I just had my solitary mictlan priest cast sabbath master and sabbath slave after the scripting expired. :doh:
That... didn't go too well.

It's still better than Agartha inflicting battle fright on all of own troops after the enemy routs. :banghead:

[momfreeek]

I'll go with Agartha if they're still free

[jimbojones1971]

I am happy with either the defaults, or the multipliers - either way produces different outcomes, which can be good.

I've played with score graphs on and off. On, they let you see when someone is pulling ahead. Off, they add some surprise to the game (and reward scouting and diplomacy). So I'm happy with either.

[Lung Drago]

So far I think it is leaning towards Glory of the Gods MP version. It has much more interesting water provinces and if it is succedeed by an Atlantis pick, we have a counterpart against R'lyeh in our nation line up. We don't want unchallenged super powered Rlyeh, do we? :)
As far as score graphs are concerned, I'll wait for more input. I cannot make up my mind :sick:

[parone]

i guess i could take a water power. i'll get killed, but it might make it more challenging for the ry'leh player

[megawidget]

i guess i could take a water power. i'll get killed, but it might make it more challenging for the ry'leh player

Er, well, if we play a map with more water I called dibs on Atlantis. :)

[Blubbernaught]

I don't really care on score graphs one way or the other. Having multipliers up would be an interesting change from my current MP games.

Glory of the Gods MP gets my vote.

[Mightypeon]

Looks like MightyPeon is already in a lot of games, and will need to sit this one out.

Can I suggest Urraparrand as the map? It's 145 land + 35 sea provinces, and (as the name suggests) is rap-around map, so no corners.



Having written a comparably well received guide on MA Ulm, and generally awnsering more question than I am asking, I also would not feel very "at home" in a Newbie game.
I hope someone else takes up Ulms great Quest of Magical communism!

[krpeters]

I don't know if we're still debating the score graphs, but I prefer to leave them on -- they warn me who I need to gang up on.

[jimbojones1971]

Well, my previous EA Ermor pretender is named the Trouser Snake, so I think it may be time to introduce the Passion Python this time!

When can I unleash Passion Python upon an unwitting world?

[Vanguard X]

I am neutral on the graphs. As for the map, I favor a large one.

[Adam J]

Lung- I don't think I'm up for a 18 person game for my first MP experience, I'm sorry but I didn't realize you were recruiting such a large game... I hope you don't mind but I'd like to drop out. Sorry.

[Lung Drago]

Sorry to hear that Adam, but I understand. It's going to be a carnage in 16 players none the less. Yes, 16, as there is no word from Anaconda yet.

The game is created on llamaserver (http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=PowerBeyondComprehension). Map being Glory of the Gods MP version. Score graphs remain on, HoF on 15, everything else is default. Send your pretenders in, whatever Ero-Sennin names they might have :D

EDIT: Got a friend of mine a last-minute join, all hail Arcoscephale in our nation line up! :P Has to yet register and get approved though.

[megawidget]

Seconding (thirding? fourthing?) Glory of the Gods MP!

I hope we can restart though if either I or R'lyeh end up in the lakes -- it would be vastly unfair since the other would have uncontested claims to so many water provinces. Unless, of course, R'lyeh is happy to go for early land conquest! :p

[parone]

i don't think im gonna end up in this game, but i do think it is awesome that lung changed my handle from parone to parole. one letter can mean so much...

[jimbojones1971]

Seconding (thirding? fourthing?) Glory of the Gods MP!

I hope we can restart though if either I or R'lyeh end up in the lakes -- it would be vastly unfair since the other would have uncontested claims to so many water provinces. Unless, of course, R'lyeh is happy to go for early land conquest! :p

If it is not too late, its fairly simple to edit the map to designate the lakes as being out of bounds for starting locations.

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Seconding (thirding? fourthing?) Glory of the Gods MP!

I hope we can restart though if either I or R'lyeh end up in the lakes -- it would be vastly unfair since the other would have uncontested claims to so many water provinces. Unless, of course, R'lyeh is happy to go for early land conquest! :p

If it is not too late, its fairly simple to edit the map to designate the lakes as being out of bounds for starting locations.

Yes, I second that, please no lakes!

[Lung Drago]

Actually, I did some testing now and we apparently need to change the map anyway. Glory of the Gods is too small.
While number of provinces would be kinda fine, the real problem is that a good chunk of it is "unusable" - swamps and wastelands. I attempted to do a fixed start position version of the map for us, ran a web script I found on the net and got all provinces with <5 neighbours flagged nostart. Then I did some debugging and noticed some spawns are simply too close to each other. So, I sat down to it and went for it manually.

I tried my best, but the highest number of players you can cramp on this map is 15, with 2 being water. Adding any more would be too insane and balance would go instantly off the charts.(Even now some are somewhat too close, with mere 3 province space between them). It could go to 16 if we had another water nation, since the map actually looks useable by 3 sea nations. But some spawns still invoke a feeling of claustrophobia.

So, I highly suggest switching the map. Since choosing a useable map turned out to be a complex alchemy, and since I have nothing better to do today anyway, I will inspect several maps and attempt to come up with a new list. There is still an option of generating a map for us, aswell :)

[Vanguard X]

Actually, I did some testing now and we apparently need to change the map anyway. Glory of the Gods is too small.

Whew, thanks. I never played that map either but after looking at it I agree that it is way too small. Personally I like the idea of something that would average 20-25 lands per player.

[Blubbernaught]

I don't have any good MP map suggestions, but I'm game for whatever. Big is good, as far as that goes.

[megawidget]

Actually, I did some testing now and we apparently need to change the map anyway. Glory of the Gods is too small.

Whew, thanks. I never played that map either but after looking at it I agree that it is way too small. Personally I like the idea of something that would average 20-25 lands per player.

Whoa... while this is my first multiplayer game, I did make sure to read a veteran's warning for newer players:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3411351

Gameplay tips
- New players will often start on maps far too big. Play on a map with at most 15 provinces per nation. This is a normal size.

Technically, Glory of the Gods is already "too big", with ~16 provinces per land player. Also, how are wastes and swamps "useless"? They have the most sites! Going to a bigger map frankly makes me uncomfortable, as I'm already concerned about potential micromanagement hell that will occur once I inevitably dominate half the map. :re:

[Lung Drago]

It turned out many of the maps with fixed starts have 3 province gap between capitols. So, it's propably just me thinking it's too close, lol. Well, absolutely no experience with dom3 map designs, really.

Also, how are wastes and swamps "useless"? They have the most sites!

That's true, but they still make very poor starting provinces. It simply isn't good when your capitol is on or neighbors many of these :re:

http://i538.photobucket.com/albums/ff342/LungDrago/glory_multiplayer.jpg

Here is an example of a lineup. I tried to make it so there at least 2 land neighbors for each, one 3 provinces away and one 4 provinces away. Looks good for the most part, but since it is not a wraparound, some players are still somewhat lonely out there. Especially position number 11 and 2 alarm me. That frickin stupid island in the sea between them makes a logical another spawn point, but since it's an island, it's not an option as start. All spawns have 4 to 5 neighbors. No idea if this would actually work out.

An alternative could be "Alexandria" or "Asia Twist" maps. These have fixed starts already available, they are a little bit bigger though (made for 2 more land nations mostly). Orania ends up on ~17 provinces too.

[megawidget]

It turned out many of the maps with fixed starts have 3 province gap between capitols. So, it's propably just me thinking it's too close, lol. Well, absolutely no experience with dom3 map designs, really.

Also, how are wastes and swamps "useless"? They have the most sites!

That's true, but they still make very poor starting provinces. It simply isn't good when your capitol is on or neighbors many of these :re:

http://i538.photobucket.com/albums/ff342/LungDrago/glory_multiplayer.jpg

Here is an example of a lineup. I tried to make it so there at least 2 land neighbors for each, one 3 provinces away and one 4 provinces away. Looks good for the most part, but since it is not a wraparound, some players are still somewhat lonely out there. Especially position number 11 and 2 alarm me. That frickin stupid island in the sea between them makes a logical another spawn point, but since it's an island, it's not an option as start. All spawns have 4 to 5 neighbors. No idea if this would actually work out.

An alternative could be "Alexandria" or "Asia Twist" maps. These have fixed starts already available, they are a little bit bigger though (made for 2 more land nations mostly). Orania ends up on ~17 provinces too.

Wait, I thought that your home province always gets a certain population and income, regardless of which land you start out on?

Personally, I really don't like the idea of fixed starts, as it makes exploration to find your opponents' capitals insignificant, and is asking for remote spell spams from half across the world. In your changes to GotG, it looks like starts 2 and 6 get huge advantages, a) being in corners and b) having large uncontested swathes of land that are likely to have lots of gem-generating or even unique sites.
I'm fine with tighter spacings (even if I were a land nation) -- simply because it prompts head-butting faster, which is the point -- as long as people get their cap circles. :) I understand though if others want more playing room.

Orania I feel has too little water for both R'lyeh and I (esp. considering that water sites are meh, and so is their income -- a tradeoff for relative defensibility). Asia Twist looks really pretty on the other hand, so it gets my vote if you deem GotG unsuitable despite my arguments. Alexander (is that what you meant by 'Alexandria'?) also looks good, though it's up to you to decide if there's too much water for the squamous among us.

[krpeters]

I have a question and a thought on the map situation:

Question: since we're still deciding on a map, does that mean I should postpone sending in a Pretender?

Thought: On average, if you own every province within two provinces of your capital, you have about 20 provinces. That means on average there are only 4 provinces between your and your opponent's capital. A 3 province distance isn't bad in comparison. Having only 2 provinces between you and your opponent is when it gets ugly.

[jimbojones1971]

Twelve to fifteen provinces per player works out pretty well. Starting with only a few provinces between you and your neighbors is ugly, but this *is* a game about horribly murdering each other after all :-)

If we can't agree on a good "set" map, maybe we could consider picking one of the random maps from here:

http://www.dom3minions.com/RandomizedMaps.htm

Either way, I vote LD makes a call and we run with it :-)

[megawidget]

If we can't agree on a good "set" map, maybe we could consider picking one of the random maps from here:

http://www.dom3minions.com/RandomizedMaps.htm


Hey, if I'm going to spend my time staring at ugly sprites, I at least want a pretty map to look at! :D

Also, out of curiosity, how will diplomacy be handled? IRC? Forum messaging? Something less awkward?

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

I personally dont like large maps. I think 15 provinces per player is enough, and 20 is good. More than that and late game turns take a long time, and that's off-putting to me (of course that could be my fault for micromanaging :p).

[Anaconda]

Still room for me?

[Lung Drago]

Feel free to join us, Anaconda! :) Felt kinda sad when I figured you died on us. :angel

I say let's go with Alexander. My reasons are following:

GotG, AT or Alexander are all big maps anyway, so we will deal with micromanage on all of these maps eventually. Thus, I'm not feeling the 20+ land province increase of Alexander vs GotG as a big difference.
I don't trust myself enough to faciliate fair spawns, so we can use the luxurious fact these are already there on Alexander.
Alexander also seems closely designed for our nation number too. It's for 16 Land and 3 sea, we have 15 Land and 2 sea.
AT and Alexander are actually very similar to each other, done by the same author. However, AT has shamefully all starts marked by an orb, also a sealanes mechanism that not everyone can be used to, so I picked Alexander over AT.


The map was set up on llamaserver with no problems whatsoever, as I expected. Let's get those pretenders in.

[Vanguard X]

I say let's go with Alexander....

Ok, can you put up a link to the map plz?

[Lung Drago]

I say let's go with Alexander....

Ok, can you put up a link to the map plz?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com//showthread.php?t=37295 here it is, I'll place it on the first post when I get to it (after Anaconda makes his choice) :)

Oh and to answer a previous question, as far as diplomacy goes, I guess you can use whatever you and your partner agree on, but PM's tend to be most handy. You can of course send in-game messages, but that's a pretty slow method. Also, this forum thread is a useful little Europa 1400: The Guild notice board you can use for an efficient broadcast, sending your mind-controlling frequencies to control the masses and turning their brain level down so they'll end up shambling zombies, mhwahwahwahwhaa! Bow before me, Ainselm, the Prince of Terror !!!

[jimbojones1971]

OK, Lady Magrat Garlick is in.

[jimbojones1971]

Any update on this one?

We've got eleven pretenders in, and I'd say would want at least 16 if we are going with the Alexander map. If we don't get responses from the others who registered soon, I'd favour throwing the game open again for registrations to get to the 16.

[Anaconda]

Was Lanka still open? If, then for me!

[swuu]

If we don't get responses from the others who registered soon, I'd favour throwing the game open again for registrations to get to the 16.
Yeah, reopen for registration and get this one off the ground already!:up:

[HoleyDooley]

Yes please. If people can't get their pretenders in after all this time, just think how reliable they will be when the game starts.

[jimbojones1971]

Was Lanka still open? If, then for me!

No-one is listed as having Lanka on the front page, and no pretender is in for Lanka, so I think that you are good to go! :-)

[jimbojones1971]

Anaconda will have his pretender in Wednesday his time (I think he's in or around Scandanavia?), which gives us 14.

I am going to petition Lung (the main admin and thread owner, all hail the king! :-) ) to reopen the game to let us get to somewhere between 16 and 18 players.

[HoleyDooley]

For my money, hang the 16 players. It could take forever to get them and submit a pretender as has already been proven in this thread.

I say once Anaconda is in, lets start.

[megawidget]

If this thread were still marked as 'recruiting' I'm sure more people would sign up.

The map is otherwise too big just for 14 players.

[jimbojones1971]

Yeah, I've PM'd Lung Drago (who started the thread) to ask him to change the label.

How many guys do we need on a map this size, do people reckon? The alternative is of course to just downsize to a smaller map.

[HoleyDooley]

I believe it was agreed that 17 on this map was acceptable in this thread.

If we can get 17 then all well and good. If we are stuck on 14 we will need another map. I have no suggestions at this time for another map.

[jimbojones1971]

If we have 14, how about this map?

http://dom3maps.wikidot.com/system:worldofwarhammer

It comes out to about 15 provinces per person, so some room but not too big.

[Anaconda]

I am ok with Warhammer. And my champion is in.

[krpeters]

Any map will do as far as I'm concerned, let's just start already.

[Lung Drago]

Sorry I didn't get to visit the forums for some time. I've marked the game open for recruitment to fill it to 18 players, the game should autostart after 18 gods are in. That's the quickest it can get, I think :)

[jimbojones1971]

Sweet, we've hit 14, lets hope we get to 18 soon and then we are away!

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Hey, is it possible to resubmit a pretender? All this down time has given me a chance to rethink my strategy...

[megawidget]

Hey, is it possible to resubmit a pretender? All this down time has given me a chance to rethink my strategy...

Uh-oh... :(

[jimbojones1971]

Hey, is it possible to resubmit a pretender? All this down time has given me a chance to rethink my strategy...

Yeah, just send it in and llamaserver will adopt the new pretender in place of the old one. You'll get an email confirmation similar to the one when you resubmit a turn file, to let you know what is going down.

(Just make sure you've got CBM 1.92 as the only mod enabled!)

[Rejakor]

I'll jump in as a kooky yomi build.

[jimbojones1971]

Sweet, welcome!

If we don't get past 15 soon, I think we call it a quorum, move to a map that better suits 15 than the current one, and push the start button.

[HoleyDooley]

+1 to that Jimbo.

[mattyburn7]

Me too. My lizardsssssssssss are getting antsssssssssssy:D

[HoleyDooley]

Don't worry Matt, I am "chilling" some drinks for them so as they don't die of thirst in the game.

I much prefer my lizard skins suitcases, shoes and jackets have "battle wounds" when I adorn them.

[momfreeek]

==================================================

Listen. Impatient children. Bolo is risen! As was the prophecy of before. Yes. Bolo the magnificent! He awakens from slumber. This century. Or this next one. The anarchy is over children. Is is not tolerated. Not in this land. Or even on the surface. Bolo is with us now. Such behaviour. No, no, no. In the blink of a mighty eye. This century. Or this Next one.

Elu of Agartha, Knower of all things

==================================================

[mattyburn7]

Hooley: Just please make sure when your giants fall over from our attacks that they don't fall on any of our properly (or lizards for that matter). Oh that's right. They'll all be falling in Niefel territory anyway!

[HoleyDooley]

Matt, they are falling over as I type....with laughter.

Hang onto that sense of humour matey...it will be all you have left soon.

[Legendary League]

*cranks up Ride of the Valkyries*

[jimbojones1971]

This promises to be awesome :-)

OK, it is pretty clear 15 is all we are going to get, so I'll switch in a different map and push go. I'm currently mucking around a bit with the Warhammer map. I've removed the set starting positions, and am thinking about setting any province with three or less neighbors to be a no-start area then doing a few sample runs to see how the starts likely pan out. Then, the killing will begin!

[krpeters]

I haven't taken too close of a look at the Warhammer map, but I noticed that there's a few islands disconnected from the mainland. They won't be starting locations either, right? (It would suck to get stranded out on an island at the start)

[jimbojones1971]

*** NEW MAP FILE ***

Gents, as we are not going to get beyond 15 players, we are going to move to the World of Warhammer map (which has a better province / player ratio). I have tweaked the map to:
* Restrict the start areas so that every land nation has four land neighbors, and every sea nation 4 sea areas
* Set the northern and southern wastes to be out to be no-start areas

I've run a couple of tests, and in both cases the starts worked out correctly, so I am cautiously confident.

The map files can be found here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?asoubbc0b4bs2y3

I'm now going to tweak the setup of the game, and push start to get things rolling. Any issues, post here and / or PM me and I'll see what I can do - with this many players, I suspect we may have at least one restart :-)

EDIT: The game is now started. Good luck! (Unless you plan on attacking me, in which case I hope your home province gets hit by an earthquake on turn 1, and a plague on turn 2 ;) )

[Legendary League]

Am now jealous of whoever starts near the wastes. They'll be swimming in gems! :mad:

[Vanguard X]

This promises to be awesome :-)

OK, it is pretty clear 15 is all we are going to get, so I'll switch in a different map and push go.

I sent a PM to Drago yesterday letting him know that I will not be playing in this one, and asking that my pretender be removed. I guess the message didn't get received.

Figured I'd let you know as soon as possible if you all want to restart, as Caelum is not playing this one.

[HoleyDooley]

Restart required and Caelum needs to be removed......aaahhhh.

Jimbo is the same map okay for 14?

[Legendary League]

So are we starting? :s

[HoleyDooley]

FYI everyone, Jimbo is also admin in this game. Best to send PMs to both admins to achieve the best result.

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Sorry to be a bother, but I can't open the link to the map (site is blocked, I think?, Great Firewall of China and all...). Could someone please post it on the forum as a .zip file so I can download it directly from here?

[jimbojones1971]

I think with this game, now that we have started if at all possible it should be a case of FIPO (F**** It Push On), just to try and get some momentum back. So I'll look for a sub for Caelum. If we can't find one, would people rather turn non-starters AI, or do a restart?

I figure that this map is good for as few as 12. Main things to consider are:
* If you have any water nations, you want at least two (or maybe to set part of the ocean to be "dead seas", e.g. no value, just to equalise opportunities)
* There are a few land bridges around, so if you end up for example on that crescent shaped island chain to the west of the map, you still have a way to walk to the mainland (and the mainland has a way to walk to you, too .....).

BBG: Will upload the map file and attach to this thread shortly, when I am back home (rather than using a 3g mobile connection, which is a bit flakey).

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

I would prefer a reset to having AIs. AIs go down way to fast to a human player, and give a big advantage to whomever starts next to them.

[Legendary League]

Aye, it's turn one. A restart won't hurt anyone.

[momfreeek]

mapzip

[megawidget]

I would prefer a reset to having AIs. AIs go down way to fast to a human player, and give a big advantage to whomever starts next to them.

Seconded. Definitely don't want to start with AI.

[jimbojones1971]

Here is the map as an attachment.

Noted about AIs, we'll do a restart if needed instead.

[Rejakor]

If you don't have an AI, then it's a big advantage to whoever starts with the biggest field of eatable indies.

AI is slightly harder to kill than indies, plus a restart would be annoying and kill some people's interest which could lead to snowball effect.

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

If you don't have an AI, then it's a big advantage to whoever starts with the biggest field of eatable indies.

AI is slightly harder to kill than indies, plus a restart would be annoying and kill some people's interest which could lead to snowball effect.

AIs are tougher than indies, but they still dies quickly, and the result is that one player gets an enemy capital and all the advantages that entails (+300-500 gold/turn and 6 gems/turn, and a free fort) very early on. It happened to me last game- as Gath, I ate an AI'd LA Ulm in 6 turns, and those extra bonuses kept me in play waaaayyyy later than I should have been given the number of stupid mistakes I made.

But even if you were right that it would be a disadvantage to start next to one, the issue would still be one of unfairness, and that issue is solved by not having AIs at all. So I really think a reset is best if people dont get their turns in.

[HoleyDooley]

I vote for a reset as there appears to be no takers to play Caelum (spelling!!). Deleting the said nation of course.

[jimbojones1971]

Yeah, I am waiting to see who else doesn't send their turns in, to get a feel for the actual player roster. Then I'll zap everyone who didn't put in a turn, and restart once (and only once - a second would kill the game guaranteed IMO). We've still got about 24 hours left on the clock, and only 8 turns in, so (time zone allowing) my plan is to wait until the turn is actually due to host then break out the chainsaw and start pruning the dead branches, so to speak :-)

[HoleyDooley]

Good idea, cut off the dead wood now rather than wait in game. Mate don't wait for a vote on the map. Ideas have been expressed in this thread as to how many provinces per player people want.

Once you have a final number, put up the new map, if indeed there is to be a new one and start the first turn.

[HoleyDooley]

Oh yeah this just gets better and better.

The guy that started this game doesn't have his turn in yet and hasn't been around the forum for like two days.

He didn't respond to the PM sent to him by Caelum either.

Thanks for your excellent work Jimbo, the game is only breathing (just) because of you.

[Anaconda]

Ahha, so your waiting to c wether I submit or not? Well, to save me some trouble consider MY TURN submitted. So its submitted ones PLUS mi self? OK! ?

[mattyburn7]

My turn is in and I'm in for the long haul. Just be aware that I am traveling for business next week. I'll be able to do turns but always at night. I'll always be at a 24 hour interval for next few days. Besides I'm providing a reward of a bottle of lizard lotion to the C'tis soldier that drops the largest Niefel. :D

[Lung Drago]

I'm still here! However, I find myself in a time-constraint trap right now. Things just snowball on me and all I managed to do for last few days was to skim fast over these posts then go to sleep. Gosh, I still feel permanently tired lately.
Thanks to Jimbo for taking the initiative, with you around we should be able to get the game moving at last even though I apparently took too much on myself^^ Hopefully things will slow down soon...

[jimbojones1971]

OK, so we are up to ten (nine with turns in plus Anaconda) with 24 hours to go til the deadline (I'll likely call it slightly before the turn would flick over).

Once I've got the final count, I'm going to pick a map that seems to suit the number of players and the breakdown of water / land nations still in the game, and do the restart. My thinking is that you want 12-15 provinces per nation (with 15 being the absolute max). I'd guess we will be in the 10 to 12 nation range, giving us a range of about 120 to 180 provinces. If anyone has any suggestions they'd like to throw into the mix that fit these criteria, post them here and share :-)

[swuu]

Pangaea is still in!

[Rejakor]

I've always liked the two older wolfsbane maps, Stonehaven and Shadowshore.

I did/do like that warhammer map, though. It looked fun. If people wouldn't mind a slightly bigger game, it would still work.

http://i.imgur.com/3sJ2t.jpg

http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=491

http://i.imgur.com/dtGWn.jpg

http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=373

[jimbojones1971]

Nice work, thank Rej.

I reckon we only need 12 for the Warhammer map, and we are now up to 11 (with Pan's confirmation) with a possible 12th waiting on a PM. So there is still hope!

I do rather like Shadowshore, played one game on it that was quite fun (even though I ended up in that tiny peninsula in the north with the player most likely to shiv me for the fun of it!).

Blackwald (also by wolfsbane) could also work, given that we've got two water nations and it has 132 land and 39 sea (with 32 being in the two main oceans, and the other 7 scattered in lakes):

http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=325

EDIT: Stonehaven is really neat! Thanks for posting that, I hadn't noticed it before :-)

[Rejakor]

argh, I don't like the new wolfsbane maps. The textures look really ugly compared to the real world leather map-likeness of the others. But then I dislike satellite imagery as well and everyone else seems to go completely nuts for it so eh.

[momfreeek]

I was in the last game and I'd like to reassure everyone that we have a *pair* of admins (in different time zones) who will, I am sure, do another great job of keeping the game alive. :up::up:

We don't want slow turns but real life won't wait so sometimes the game has to (staled turns being worse than pauses).

[Legendary League]

Still here.

...or am I? Maybe I'm a ghost ninja. :ninja:

[jimbojones1971]

Still here.

...or am I? Maybe I'm a ghost ninja. :ninja:

Welcome, Sir Ninja! This gives us 12, so we can stay on the Warhammer map - yay!

[Anaconda]

So the turn interval is 36H for starters? Maybe the very first turn should have longer, though. Say 48 or even 60? 12 is quite a few players, so every1 can get accustomated in time.

[jimbojones1971]

So the turn interval is 36H for starters? Maybe the very first turn should have longer, though. Say 48 or even 60? 12 is quite a few players, so every1 can get accustomated in time.

We'll do a restart, but after that the first turn will be 48 hours for the first turn and 30 hours every turn after that until the game slows down and we go to 48 hours.

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Sorry, Im confused now- what map are we using?

[Reverend Zombie]

Are you willing to accept another player if you restart? I'd like to join as Mictlan.

[Legendary League]

Are you willing to accept another player if you restart? I'd like to join as Mictlan.
We just started, apparently.

Also, this just in:

Confused Norwegian underworld guardians in strange New World. Concerned about food supplies and disturbing lack of death metal bands in this world.

[jimbojones1971]

BarnacleGoose: We are using the Warhammer v2 map, attached to the thread a few pages back. Let me know if you can't find it or whatever, and we'll work something out.

ReverendZombie: I'm afraid you popped up just a little bit too late, for which I apologise. Hopefully next time!

[Legendary League]

BarnacleGoose: We are using the Warhammer v2 map, attached to the thread a few pages back. Let me know if you can't find it or whatever, and we'll work something out.

ReverendZombie: I'm afraid you popped up just a little bit too late, for which I apologise. Hopefully next time!
Ermor? Isn't that just an anagram for Rome...r? Do you guys make pasta or something?

[Reverend Zombie]

ReverendZombie: I'm afraid you popped up just a little bit too late, for which I apologise. Hopefully next time!

Thanks; I'll keep my eyes peeled. :)

[jimbojones1971]

BarnacleGoose: We are using the Warhammer v2 map, attached to the thread a few pages back. Let me know if you can't find it or whatever, and we'll work something out.

ReverendZombie: I'm afraid you popped up just a little bit too late, for which I apologise. Hopefully next time!
Ermor? Isn't that just an anagram for Rome...r? Do you guys make pasta or something?

Maybe "Roma" is spelt "Romer" when you write it in Swedish? Or they added an extra "r" in a cunning attempt to throw us off the trail ....

I could do with a bit of pasta. I don't think we get the national spell for Pasta until Late Age though, and by then its really all about undead and eating peasants and stuff. Would a Lich go for Peasant Pasta with a side of baby? Hrrmmm.

[Legendary League]

Maybe "Roma" is spelt "Romer" when you write it in Swedish? Or they added an extra "r" in a cunning attempt to throw us off the trail ....

I could do with a bit of pasta. I don't think we get the national spell for Pasta until Late Age though, and by then its really all about undead and eating peasants and stuff. Would a Lich go for Peasant Pasta with a side of baby? Hrrmmm.
Huh. We would like to chill out with your elderly self then. He'd probably like death metal. Strange. Usually its the young'ns that like it. Well, I don't discriminate.

Now, need to find a supplier of lutefisk.

[jimbojones1971]

I sense death metal would have a certain appeal by the time Ermor reaches LA. There's nothing like orchestrating a zombie apocalypse to change one's taste in music ;-)

[jimbojones1971]

We are up to turn 2 - w00t! This means that the game is officially up and running. Thanks for your persistence, guys :-)

[Anaconda]

POSTPONE 14H please

really ackward, my GF took my mac with her by accident - instead of her own. I wont get it back before that, theres no mans to play.

[jimbojones1971]

Added 14 hours to the timer, Anaconda. Not having your own computer is really annoying, so you've totally got my sympathy!

Its best to also PM me (and Lung Drago), as the message shows up on my smart phone so I have more chance to act on it quickly.

[Anaconda]

thx

[jimbojones1971]

Arco seems to be doing it tough at the moment. Although they are researching like mad. Be interested to see where this goes for them.

[Rejakor]

They lost their starting army to indies. Tough, but it happens. Odd that they didn't take an awake pretender. Philoscephale is kind of hard to do without one.

[jimbojones1971]

Yeah, that bites when it happens.

I've not yet played Arco for some reason, maybe I can take them for a whirl next game I play. They sound like good fun, if perhaps a bit tricky at first.

[Legendary League]

What, are those lazy Greeks at it again? Man, we're so glad we weren't part of the European Union. So glad we didn't have to subsidize them.

May the offspring of ten thousand feral cats descend upon them, for all we care. Oh wai-


:p

[jimbojones1971]

What, are those lazy Greeks at it again? Man, we're so glad we weren't part of the European Union. So glad we didn't have to subsidize them.

May the offspring of ten thousand feral cats descend upon them, for all we care. Oh wai-


:p

Speaking as the lazy Italians in this game (Ermor), I would encourage you to stop sending your money to those darned Greeks and instead start sending it to me :p

[Rejakor]

Lazy more like smoking pine resin.

Arco is an insanely powerful communion nation, but quite boring once you master the whole communion aspect. It's a one track nation, hard to do more than one thing with. (That thing being mystic communions).

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Lazy more like smoking pine resin.

Arco is an insanely powerful communion nation, but quite boring once you master the whole communion aspect. It's a one track nation, hard to do more than one thing with. (That thing being mystic communions).

That's not strictly true. Oreiads can be good thugs, and wind riders are good raiders that you could (though I wouldn't) use a bless with. And I personally love big communions, so that never get's boring for me. Hmm, why didn't I chose Acro... :p

Though I do agree that mage-wise, they can't do too much outside of communions (Oreiads can drop wind and nature buffs and evocations, at least). But diverse path picks on the mystics mean that at least you have options in the communions.

[krpeters]

Arco also has chariots and resource cheap slingers; taking on indies early on shouldn't be hard for them.

[Lung Drago]

Is it just me or do we have provinces that potentially border +-3 capitols at once due to sea lanes?

[Legendary League]

Speaking as the lazy Italians in this game (Ermor), I would encourage you to stop sending your money to those darned Greeks and instead start sending it to me :p
Norway was never part of the EU, so we never had to give you any of our oil monies.

Also, Forest ladies aren't just good thugs. They're really SC level. Misform, Personal Regen, earth buffs, Quickness, Frost/Lightning/elemental resistances...Pretty much every good buff that you want, that you can pick and choose which one to script.

Also sneaking seduction, but that's minor.

[jimbojones1971]

Is it just me or do we have provinces that potentially border +-3 capitols at once due to sea lanes?

That would certainly be ... interesting. I am not sure if this is the case or not - I would guess it depends on the Dom3 algorithm for placing capitals and how close the capitals can be to each other.

All I did with this map was to run a filter over the top to set any land province with less than four land neighbors to be a no-start area, and the same for sea provinces with sea neighbors.

Fingers crossed it works out OK!

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Is it just me or do we have provinces that potentially border +-3 capitols at once due to sea lanes?

Yes, we do.

[Rejakor]

The oreiads only have like 10hp, that's why they stay thug level because there are a lot of spells that do non elemental AN damage (especially in blood) that just outright murder them.

[Legendary League]

The oreiads only have like 10hp, that's why they stay thug level because there are a lot of spells that do non elemental AN damage (especially in blood) that just outright murder them.
Hm.

That is a problem, yes.

[Lung Drago]

Is it just me or do we have provinces that potentially border +-3 capitols at once due to sea lanes?

That would certainly be ... interesting. I am not sure if this is the case or not - I would guess it depends on the Dom3 algorithm for placing capitals and how close the capitals can be to each other.

All I did with this map was to run a filter over the top to set any land province with less than four land neighbors to be a no-start area, and the same for sea provinces with sea neighbors.

Fingers crossed it works out OK!



Hate to be a doomsayer, but I have a bad feeling. I can't say for everyone, but I already neighbor a capitol. It's 2 provinces away (unless Agartha managed to build a fort-temple in 5 turns). Yomi neighbors mine, almost from two sides actually. That's a useful little sea-lane backdoor I must say. Yomi conquered those Vines indies thanks to an awake pretender. Hate to be QQ'ing, but it doesn't take a genius to divine that Yomi has a considerable chance to one shot my capitol right this turn. The same thing propably applies for Agartha. Quickest game ever? Well, of course the sieging will take ages, but still it itches me the wrong way.
I cannot help but feel that this map isn't particularly tailored for my pretender build :(
I understand Yomi employed an effective rush strategy, but I doubt the most pro player could ever do better in my position, at least from my experience you don't conquer dark vine indies with usual starting armies. I wonder where is Yomi capitol, if I managed to conquer that particular province somehow, would the situaton be reversed?

EDIT: I still feel bad about myself here, but I hope you understand that a guy who thought 3 provinces are too close is stabbed in the back once he discovers the gaps are 2 provinces here :D That's insane...if this applies for the whole map, then I can say, if you picked the "right" direction you could just carved yourself a quick line to early capitol siege.

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

I agree that things are pretty tight here- Province 50 touches my capital, Pangea's and Nefilheilm's, though that's less of an issue than Aby and Yomi, since 50 is a sea province.

If people think that they wont be happy on this map, I wouldn't mind starting over with a different one. After all, the point is to have fun. Does anyone other than Lung Drago have a problem with the map?

[HoleyDooley]

I don't mind either way.

However with the grand total of 4 provinces under my control, I will be fighting 3 other nations to not only expand this number but to actually hold onto them as well.

Had I realized the style of this game, an awake SC pretender would have been the go.

[jimbojones1971]

I can't help but suspect that a restart would probably kill the game, but if a majority want it - power to the people, I guess?

[Rejakor]

Uh.

My capital is 2 sea provinces and one two three FOUR land provinces away from abysia's cap. And that's via a /cave/.

If someone is sited in the cap city of the empire (altdorf) then i'm a somewhat less comfortable 2 provs away from them but that's within tolerances.

As for my strat.. it's by no means a rush strat. It is an expansion strat, but a ****ing celestial general is not going to be rushing anyone's capital naked, I don't care who they are. ****ing MARKATA could kill this guy, his strength is his freespawn troops that let him just keep on rollin'. And if you think 18 TC spear and tower shield infantry can take the ~50 aby inf and heavy inf (+ PD) my scouting report says your cap has, well. If I won that battle I would probably convert to [insert religion of choice here] due to irrational universe.

This map has big sea provinces, but so do many other maps, it's because sea provinces are mapmove1 and it's nice to give a map ocean without overpowering water nations. Even then all the amphib nations (LA Atlantis and uh... jomon?) get some minor boost out of that but who even cares those are some of the weaker nations in the game.

Awake SC pretenders are so nerfed in CBM anyway that I don't think any pretender rush strats would work against anything other than maybe a monkey nation with sloth. Even then you can usually research something to scare them off. Even earth meld works if you spam it.

The fundamental reality of playing with 15 provinces per player is that sometimes your cap is going to be two squares away from another cap. That's all the game ever checks for, and no-one has ever found a way to solve it other than fixed starts.

Lung Drago, what you SHOULD be worrying about is that everyone got sardined into one section of the map and someone else is carving up indie provinces like no tomorrow but even then that means everyone who neighbours them should /gang up/ on them because their province growth chart will reveal that they're snaking all the lands.

If caps are further apart the only thing you're really defended from is a turn 4 pretender rush. Because if someone finds you or your lands on turn 8, and they're a rush build, they're going to rush you. And your thau 2 research is not going to save you. Or rather you'll still end up locked in your cap with whatever you've been able to build. All the best rush builds are great at expanding too. If they have to cut through 2 provinces of yours to reach your cap, they don't care. You're going to need your whole army to fight them anyway.

And considering it's turn 6 and no-one has complained of a carrion dragon landing on their cap, i'm pretty sure that the dreaded small map turn 4 rush has not materialized.

I was really enjoying this game and map so far. I have an interesting position where i'm isolated on an isthmus with enemy candles (yours and someone elses) on my two possible routes out so I need to get as much as I can quickly and look into maybe trying to reach the islands or something.

If there's a restart I won't be playing again.

[Rejakor]

I don't mind either way.

However with the grand total of 4 provinces under my control, I will be fighting 3 other nations to not only expand this number but to actually hold onto them as well.

Had I realized the style of this game, an awake SC pretender would have been the go.

That sucks, holey, but it's also kind of an opportunity.

Make diplomatic ties with one neighbour and gang up on the other.

It's unfortunate that we're not playing DE (Dominions Enhanced) because i'm playing as nief in that right now and I had to fight three people at once (Kailasa, Ermor, and Aby) and I won thanks to Jotun troops being size 3 instead of 4 (2 per square) and having better atk and def stats (means that the huskarls are really mean melee infantry in DE instead of worthless jokes). I don't know what your build is like, but i've played CBM nief with some success with friends using a E/n bless and trashed several AI nations in quick succession in the earlygame thanks to the huge Chill aura (that sadly got nerfed in DE.. my poor niefels) a jarl and 4 niefels make around themselves. Even without a bless if you used jotuns with shields to tank for a back line of niefel giants you could wear down your enemy. Gygjas make surprisingly good battlemages, too, Tangle Vines holds enemies in place for jotuns to give the coup de grace, Dust to Dust is great against PoDs etc, and they can communion up if truly necessary to cast terror or wither bones (this is all earlygame). Later you get fun stuff like enslave mind and shadow blast. Jarls have base 3 water and Skratti can have 3 as well, this means they can fire off 3 lesser water elementals in a siege or something which could be useful.

Boulder throwers are equally good in CBM and DE - if you place your troops right, you can kill all your enemies with boulders and not even have to worry about the fact that your huskarls apparently don't know which end of a sword to hold.

There's a LP over at somethingawful where a good player (TheDemon) holds off a concerted rush attack from three other players while only having 5 provinces for about 12 turns (and longer but it's not written up). He kills huge amounts of enemies and enemy mages while losing basically nothing of his own. That's seriously doable in dom3. You just have to stretch yourself to have the battlemagic and the troops available so you fight battles where you don't get hurt and your enemies do.

In your position people are actually more likely to ally with you too, because because you're smaller than them and likely weaker you don't pose a threat of backstab as much as if they ally with someone of equal strength - if they get half of a nation you collaborate on murdering, and so do you, you're still smaller so they can worry about other neighbours and not so much about you.

EDIT: And on the way to one of your key spells (Grip of Winter) in enchantment there is a great spell called raise dead. Guess what else your jarls and gygjas can cast in battles! They're also immune to cold so you can put a couple niefel giants in there and watch your enemy choke to fatigue-death on an unending tide of undead and cold auras.

[HoleyDooley]

I am mate. I have offers of NAPs out there.

I am not saying my position is unique in this game, I am sure, and well I have already read that others are in a similar predicament. My scout also confirms others are clashing very early.

Its kind of unexpected, that's what I am really saying, as to complaining...lol. I am enjoying the game, so don't get wrong on that point. My point was, I'll go with the flow, but very happy to see what kind of empire I can carve out here, or how long till I am consigned to the history pages.

None the less, it does provide a unusual opportunity to fight early to stay alive.

Of course the score boards already show who has an easy run and is gobbling up the free territories. Just have to hope their neighbours are sensible enough put a stop to that ASAP.

I can assure you there isn't much room for expansion down my way, so if do come visiting better bring your war gear!

Appreciate the advice thx Rejakor.

[Rejakor]

Well as far as I can tell no-one has said anything about fighting yet. You're sandwiched in between pangaea and someone else? Or just r'lyeh is near you and pangaea is blocking off your further expansion?

I'm certainly not fighting Aby, or at least I haven't received a turn with battles. I haven't signed a NAP, because I usually prefer not to as I have to worry about backstabs anyway, and prefer more specific turn limited agreements with more specific goals (joint wars, trades, territory exchanges).

I've encountered Atlantis in the sea with my fishman mercs, but I just found their border with an empty province, no fighting of any kind.

I can't see any concurrent dips on the score graph to indicate anyone has been fighting, unless arco bumped heads with someone's flying pretender turn 1.

I'm actually top of the province score graphs (largely thanks to my aggressive merc-buying policy and awake expansion god (which I don't care if anyone knows is a celestial general)) and i'm /very/ firmly locked in. I'll get a 9 prov expansion, and only one of those is a farmland with more than half of the rest being mountains and swamps.

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Just to clarify my previous post, Im not actually advocating for a reset, just saying that I wouldn't mind if others wanted. It sounds like comparatively, Im very lucky, since I still have some indie islands left in my part of the sea.

As to Nefil, don't feel too threatened by me (R'lyeh)- Im not ready for a land campaign yet, and wont be for some time. That said, don't get too comfortable, since I wont sign NAP's with land nations until I have land provinces to threaten ;).

[jimbojones1971]

What is Dominions Enhanced and where can I find a link to the mod?

[mattyburn7]

My 2 cents. I'm fine either way. I'll enjoy the game as-is or jump in if we restart. Just as an FYI, I must be one of those that doesn't have too many neighbors. I haven't seen anyone else yet. On the flip side don't be too jealous. My part of the world is very narrow so my expansion is still slow.

Cheersssssssss from the Lizardssssssssssssss

We want peace with all unless we catch you wearing snakeskin boots!

[Rejakor]

jimbo -

DE - https://sites.google.com/site/dominionsenhancedmod/home

Changelog - http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=4dgCgj6M

Only works with MA and EA atm, most nations have some changes.

[Lung Drago]

Well, I won't be forcing a restart since it would agitate me too, I'll try to look at the situation as a challenge. It's clear now though that I'll have far larger problems early game than anticipated, though. I might need to figure out something else as a backup plan since I don't feel like blindly following my original one now.
I think this game will end rather quickly since as I understand so far most of us don't get much breathing space :) What's most important for me though is that everyone's start positions seem comparable and I wasn't downright smacked in the face by the Dom3 algorithm.
As I recall my early tests of Glory of the Gods was exactly that. A lot of the starts were actually fine, but there was always an area somewhere where capitols were cramped up together. That's simply unfair ;)
Oh, the quirks of random starts. They need to be identical, or else the fairness can be questioned.
EDIT: Of course if we are trying to fit into one area while someone has vast lands to conquer as you say, it's unfair, but it's also containable by smart cooperation of other neighbors, as this is the reversed situation of what I was afraid of happened to me. If you're a small nation, you generally have harder time keeping yourself alive with the conquest-thirsty neighbors :P

[momfreeek]

Well I started on a wastleland surrounded by 3 wastelands and a mountain >.<. Most land within 2 is rubbish and I'm bumping into neighbours.

Still, I'll pootle along and see how it goes.

[Legendary League]

I am mate. I have offers of NAPs out there.

I am not saying my position is unique in this game, I am sure, and well I have already read that others are in a similar predicament. My scout also confirms others are clashing very early.

Its kind of unexpected, that's what I am really saying, as to complaining...lol. I am enjoying the game, so don't get wrong on that point. My point was, I'll go with the flow, but very happy to see what kind of empire I can carve out here, or how long till I am consigned to the history pages.

None the less, it does provide a unusual opportunity to fight early to stay alive.

Of course the score boards already show who has an easy run and is gobbling up the free territories. Just have to hope their neighbours are sensible enough put a stop to that ASAP.

I can assure you there isn't much room for expansion down my way, so if do come visiting better bring your war gear!

Appreciate the advice thx Rejakor.
But Swedish giants can't lose! Except against Danishmen, but that's besides the point! You don't border them do you? If so, please don't try and take Skane again. It wasn't fun being in the middle like that. :(


:p

[Rejakor]

Yeah, that was a terrible last turn for me.

My pretender dies, I lose one expansion army, my elephant mercenaries get cut to pieces by troglodytes and only one commander makes it out alive. Eurgh.

[Legendary League]

Yeah, that was a terrible last turn for me.

My pretender dies, I lose one expansion army, my elephant mercenaries get cut to pieces by troglodytes and only one commander makes it out alive. Eurgh.
I'm so sorry! :(

I'm sure we can hunt some whales together to make you feel better.

[HoleyDooley]

Boy and I thought I have had some rough early turns.

[jimbojones1971]

Yeah, that was a terrible last turn for me.

My pretender dies, I lose one expansion army, my elephant mercenaries get cut to pieces by troglodytes and only one commander makes it out alive. Eurgh.
Ouch. That is very unfortunate indeed. Didn't your pretender just die in Madness Of Kings also? Maybe you have a disease that kills pretenders? If so, please don't breath on mine, I am kind of fond of him ....

Well I started on a wastleland surrounded by 3 wastelands and a mountain >.<. Most land within 2 is rubbish and I'm bumping into neighbours.

Still, I'll pootle along and see how it goes.

That is .... nasty. Although I think wastelands tend to have good magic sites? If so, assuming you survive to the mid game, the position could start to come good.

Speaking as one of your neighbors, I wish you nothing but love, happy bunnies and tummy rubs. Hopefully we can live in peace, and find some other poor b*stard to murderinate instead.

[Rejakor]

In MadnessKings my pretender died of an astral 1 mage casting paralyze

So yeah i'm pretty sure i'm cursed

EDIT: to put this into perspective, it was an elemental immune MR 22 prot 30 before buffs gorgon with twelve attacks and 80 hp (inside friendly dominion).

****ing cursed.

EDIT EDIT: To put this even more into perspective, this was end of year 2. So it was a full gear SC with petrification end of year 2. Which is terrifying. And I got it killed.

[jimbojones1971]

Yeah, paralyze really is an SC killer. Oh well, at least you aren't locked in a major war to the death with a neighbor who is convinced that you backstabbed them. Oh, wait ....

Yep, you are cursed! :-)

[krpeters]

Just to add my two cents: this board does feel very crowded. I'd love to know where all the open provinces are. Dropping close to other capitals isn't that big of an issue so long as you also have some room to expand elsewhere. But it seems as if everyone is getting cut off, implying that someone else has way too much room.

This is one thing that makes wraparound maps so nice -- any big empty areas are easily reachable by several players, so nobody can monopolize them.

Anyway, let's play it out for now, and see where we are in a little bit. If we get into steamroller territory we can re-decide then.

[megawidget]

I don't think I like this map either. It doesn't help that this has probably been the most awful start for me...

[jimbojones1971]

I don't think I like this map either. It doesn't help that this has probably been the most awful start for me...

I didn't realise that Atlantis was taking it in the shorts too. What's going on down in the fishy deeps of the world?

[megawidget]

I guess it's not a spoiler since you can tell from the score graphs, but I guess all I can safely say is that I have gotten more than my share of unlucky events (including a shark attack second turn that wiped out my income)... and that's not even the worst of my troubles.

This game is nothing but an exercise in frustration and I'd really rather be doing pretty much anything else. It doesn't help that I've started a new job and playing a completely-not-fun game out of sheer duty is hardly a priority. Going AI though would just hand all the water provinces to R'lyeh on a silver platter and be unfair to everyone else. :(

It's interesting though that all of my first three games suck. I've had horrible starts in this one and ALearningExperience that pretty much doom me, and through no fault of my own. My start in WhatCouldGoWrong was my "best", in a sense that the worst random **** that happened to me was having the bad luck of building my first castle on a disease-causing site and finding nothing of use anywhere else while other nations somehow get vastly improved gem income and who knows what else -- and there I'm getting dogpiled due to player shenanigans.

Bleh.

[Legendary League]

Bad starts are a given in every game. Had it happen to me several times.

My expansion is also less than ideal, but eh.

[jimbojones1971]

...the worst random **** that happened to me was having the bad luck of building my first castle on a disease-causing site ...
I've done this two games in a row now. It is really very, very, very annoying! (The first castle in one game, the second in the next.) So yeah, I totally share your pain.

If you are interested, I am going to start a game in the next week or two with fixed starts to give everyone a decent starting goal. And with this game, if you really are hating it that bad you can post for a sub - although looking at the graphs, I think your position is likely to be quite salvegable. And if all else fails, just take solace in not being Arco! :-)

[Lung Drago]

Heh, I don't know about you guys, but reading all those tragic stories in this game actually makes it fun :D Most of us are getting screwed, which makes it pretty much even. Lol.

Oh, and sea lanes are really insane. It's pretty standard to get a "Hello neighbour!" PM from someone I didn't even know I neighbor, until I followed that looong rope to a distant Nowhere-island on the other side of the sea :doh: It's kinda silly, too. You could call England and France neighbors, but this is calling USA and Russia as ones. Lol.

[momfreeek]

Turn on Map filters -> Neighbours. Shows every connection of selected province.

----------

I also have a confession of sorts. I spent ages redrawing the borders on this map a while ago. I didn't want to influence the map choice and I wanted to test it in game so I've kept schtum till now.

It has antialased and more accurate borders and two versions with varying brightness. Connections between caves are drawn in (some surprises there too no doubt):

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com//showthread.php?t=47976

IMPORTANT: the images are fully interchangeable but don't swap the map script (as jimbo customised ours). Just put one of the new images in place of the old one and reload dom3 (must quit to desktop) to try the other map pic. Everything will be the same but the background.

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

I agree with Lung Drago that the overcrowding problem is starting to sound rather fun, and I think that the potentially for battles in every other province each turn sounds crazy and cool!

But again, I can't actually identify with any of that, since Im safe underwater, and high on the province graph, and still have some indies. :smirk:

I am thinking that a wraparound map would have solved some of our problems.

[Legendary League]

The prospect of war frightens us! Can't we all get along and listen to death metal together like civilized beings? :(

[HoleyDooley]

Hey I am an old fart, and I lean a bit towards "The Mammas and the Pappas".
Can't we all enjoy listening to them?

[jimbojones1971]

That is brilliant! Many thanks :-)

Turn on Map filters -> Neighbours. Shows every connection of selected province.

----------

I also have a confession of sorts. I spent ages redrawing the borders on this map a while ago. I didn't want to influence the map choice and I wanted to test it in game so I've kept schtum till now.

It has antialased and more accurate borders and two versions with varying brightness. Connections between caves are drawn in (some surprises there too no doubt):

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com//showthread.php?t=47976

IMPORTANT: the images are fully interchangeable but don't swap the map script (as jimbo customised ours). Just put one of the new images in place of the old one and reload dom3 (must quit to desktop) to try the other map pic. Everything will be the same but the background.

[Legendary League]

Hey I am an old fart, and I lean a bit towards "The Mammas and the Pappas".
Can't we all enjoy listening to them?
What, and you call yourself Swedish? You giants aren't Swedish. You need to listen to death metal to be Scandinavian. :mad:


{OOC: In case anyone is taking me seriously, don't. Please.}

[HoleyDooley]

"The Mammas and the Pappas" rock big time!!!!!!!

{OOC: In case anyone is taking me seriously,DO!!!!!!}.

Now where did I put that Frank Sinatra's Greatest Hits album?

[Anaconda]

There are gonna be stales if you guys dont postpone like right now!

[megawidget]

There are gonna be stales if you guys dont postpone like right now!

Outside of being unhappy for really getting screwed by the RNG, I'm even more unhappy to see the staling chart:

http://www.llamaserver.net/doAdminAction.cgi?game=PowerBeyondComprehension&action=showstales

:down:

If we can't get people to play their turns maybe we should restart with those who can. Whoever gets first to Arco's capital is, I would infer, in for a treat.

[Legendary League]

Is Acro even still playing?

Also, no. A restart this late is killer. Restarts on turn 1 are quick and painless, but by turn 10, there's no point. I'd just quit the game at that point since it took so long already to start.

[jimbojones1971]

Arco / Darlian seems to be submitting one turn in two at the moment, so he's staled three times in the last six turns.

Between that, the fact he hasn't really built an army, and has no provinces, I think its reasonable to assume that in effect he has quit the game. At this point, on turn 10 with provinces, turning him AI seems to be the go. If any one objects, AND can find a sub, we'll go with the alternative.

This is Sauro's first stale, but I see his provinces and army size are taking a hit so I assume there are clouds on the horizon for him. I think we need to keep an eye on the timer, and if it looks like another stale we'll pause and grab a sub.

In other news, I just found ANOTHER neighbor - my god, there are people EVERYWHERE! GAH!! CLAUSTROPHOBIA IS KICKING IN!!!

[Anaconda]

I wouldnt worry about few stales. I was gonna stale also but manged to send the turn in some 5 minutes before it was due.

It inevidable that few players drop fast when theres so many of us and relatively complex map with still relatively small nbr of provinces per player. With good diplo even small and puny can survive, thats the name of the game. And more over, the balance of power SHOULD start to tip already. There cant be 10 equally powerfull nations in turn 50 anyways.

[Anaconda]

And I dont have my dom3 comp open so could anyone point me whos the one with a flagpole of golden serpent head?

[jimbojones1971]

And I dont have my dom3 comp open so could anyone point me whos the one with a flagpole of golden serpent head?

The green flag with the golden head is Marverni.

[jimbojones1971]

Wow, Agartha and Abysia are crammed in together like sardines in a can. Lucky they've got friendly neighbors like Yomi to help them out ... :-)

[Rejakor]

Why is everyone thinking i'm some kind of all powerful something or other

my god is dead

my strategy is terrible

my army is mostly bandits

I haven't actually researched a single tree to level 1 yet

i've yet to find a gem site

most of my troops are wounded or diseased

I don't have growth and i've patrolled so my cap is now 26k pop and it's only going to get worse

[jimbojones1971]

I hear Arco's cap is totally pristine, if you are looking for a new one?

BTW, what went down with your god in this game? I think you might have told me, but I've forgotten already (old age and whatnot are working against me here).

[krpeters]

Yeah, Marveni, that's me, you'll notice I have gobs of troops and not too many provinces. I'm piling up on cheap javelineers to kill indies with. If I ever wind up in a real war you'll see that army size shrink quickly :)

[Rejakor]

A province that said 'slingers and elephants' turned out to have 13 elephants and 50 heavy infantry.

Which was too much for my poor old celestial general.

[HoleyDooley]

Oh man, this map has produced some of the funniest results ever in a single game.

We are shoulder to shoulder, no room to even change our minds, and swapping war stories that seems like fiction.

[mattyburn7]

Am I playing the same game as y'all? I haven't come across any other nations yet and the indies have been pretty much straightforward (with 1 or 2 tough groups. Only problem is I'm on a peninsula so haven't been able to expand real quick.
Oh well, sounds like I'll run into someone soon and when I do it'll probably be 5 nations at once!!

[Anaconda]

Yeah, Marveni, that's me, you'll notice I have gobs of troops and not too many provinces. I'm piling up on cheap javelineers to kill indies with. If I ever wind up in a real war you'll see that army size shrink quickly :)

I was interested because your "150 strong chariot army" pushed next to my capital...

[Rejakor]

Marverni gets chariots? Since when.

[jimbojones1971]

Am I playing the same game as y'all?

It is probably time to confess that you aren't, in truth. As part of an elaborate practical joke, we stuck you in a separate game on your own, just to see how long it would take you to notice. It seemed like a good idea at the time? :doh:

But seriously, I expect when you do start bumping into people, it will be a LOT of people rather than just one.

[Anaconda]

Sauromatia is gonna stale second in a row.

[jimbojones1971]

Are there any indy chariots you can recruit? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but that doesn't mean much.

[jimbojones1971]

Sauromatia is gonna stale second in a row.

I'll PM him to see if he is still interested, and if he isn't or he doesn't get back to us we'll need to work out what to do with Sauro (AI or sub).

[jimbojones1971]

Wow. When you attack a province with overwhelming odds, and they kill ONLY your well armoured commander on the very first turn with fairly pathetic archery fire - things clearly aren't meant to be, eh? Still, at least it wasn't my pretender, so I'm still ahead of Rej :-)

[swuu]

Somebody needs to do something about Yomi. These guys have taken an insane amount of provinces.

[momfreeek]

We're right behind you!

[Rejakor]

my pretender is dead

my army is bandits

my income is terrible

LOOK AT OTHER GRAPHS THAN THE PROVINCE ONE

i've just managed to take all the provinces in my little allotment faster than the rest of you slowpokes (admittedly by getting all my men killed in risky attacks - not to mention 3 dai oni (oh god this build was not a good idea)).

That said feel free to attack my peaceful ***. I'll drown you in screaming dying bandits and then while i'm dying someone will shiv you in the back. Because THIS. IS. DOMINIONS. Then we can reminisce in tartarus while we're tortured for all eternity. :D

[Legendary League]

*nods head*

Yes. Why would you want to attack anime-man? Tentacles are fine (if not our cup of tea)! :(

[Lung Drago]

Poor Agartha has that striking problem I border their capital, but luckily (???) it's almost all wasteland anyways...There's literally wasteland everywhere around the Agartha capitol, which truly SUCKS for the early game :) Agartha has expensive researchers, if I recall corectly?
I started on mountains, which is actually me gusta since im Abysia. Well, not that bad start after all, I guess...

[Rejakor]

Poor abysia.

So intensely ****ed.

I guess at least they get Zmey in CBM.

[Legendary League]

Oh god Zmeys. We don't like three headed dragons, not at all. :(

[Rejakor]

I'm going to need either a timer pause or a sub over easter long weekend. I'm running games at a con basically 24/7 and won't be able to take turns.

[jimbojones1971]

Sure. If you can't find a sub, we will pause.

[momfreeek]

Poor Agartha has that striking problem I border their capital, but luckily (???) it's almost all wasteland anyways...There's literally wasteland everywhere around the Agartha capitol, which truly SUCKS for the early game :) Agartha has expensive researchers, if I recall corectly?
I started on mountains, which is actually me gusta since im Abysia. Well, not that bad start after all, I guess...Well, I've got things moving after a few turns of sub 100 income and being amphibious is paying off a bit so I can't really complain. My first army did well pushing into a few decent provinces to the east at the expense of ignoring the wastes around my capital. If I'd lost that early army I'd never have been able to replace them.

[jimbojones1971]

Having now scouted your starting position momfreek, I think you've done rather well to consolidate and pull something viable together! Just as well nothing went seriously wrong though, as I think you'd be totally done for.

[jimbojones1971]

No reply yet from Sauro about whether he is still interested. I am inclined to the view that he has probably bailed, but we shall see. If he stales a third time, he's out I am afraid.

Working on the assumption that will probably happen, shall we AI him or does the power still look viable enough that we should grab a sub?

[Legendary League]

Scary women from swamps are staling too much. :( They don't respond to our offers of caribou steak and smorgbord. :(


OOC: Sub, preferably. But his position does seem borked so either way.

[krpeters]

my pretender is dead
my army is bandits
my income is terrible
LOOK AT OTHER GRAPHS THAN THE PROVINCE ONE

So that army of 70 Ao-Onis that just rolled over my troops belongs to Arcosephale?

I also notice you're on top on the income graph too. Hmmm...

[Legendary League]

my pretender is dead
my army is bandits
my income is terrible
LOOK AT OTHER GRAPHS THAN THE PROVINCE ONE

So that army of 70 Ao-Onis that just rolled over my troops belongs to Arcosephale?

I also notice you're on top on the income graph too. Hmmm...
We're sure anime-men have peaceful intentions.

Also, our income graph looks sad. It makes us sad. Why can't we find oil!?!? :(

[mattyburn7]

I thought I was doing bad with my income and 10 provinces...I can't imagine the populations that Helheim took over. Are there any people living on this map?

[jimbojones1971]

Apparently not ....

On the plus side, if you need to find some wastes to cast "Hidden in Sand" as part of your magical diversification strategy (quite affordable in CBM 1.92), this map has no shortage of the darned things!

[HoleyDooley]

"its life Jim, but not as we know it"

[Rejakor]

Some areas of the map are quite nice. Too bad there's some goddamn marverni and lankans all over it.

[Legendary League]

You're hating on our friends? :mad:

[jimbojones1971]

Some areas of the map are quite nice. Too bad there's some goddamn marverni and lankans all over it.

Wait, the Marverni and the Lankans have stolen your ancestral homeland? You should totally do something about that, starting with giving them a stern talking to. Possibly with a chainsaw.

[Anaconda]

To add on the meta discussion; I would advocate for having a longer easter weekend instead of forcing people to turn for subs so early. How about giving huge extension of interval in thu-fri, still keeping QH enabled? And, if the turns pile up fast and a new turn comes out, granting another extension under the same conditions.

For example I am stretched to my limits with the time in my hands, and I havent got really time to concentrate on my kingdom. And now some god damn Yomi moved into OUR territories inherited from our divine anchestors by divine right.

[jimbojones1971]

So if I add say five days to the timer after Thursday's turn, would that work for people? If people get their turns in early, we can quick host, otherwise as Anaconda says this gives people time.

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Sorry about the state turn, I lost power for a day and couldnt get online.

[krpeters]

To add on the meta discussion; I would advocate for having a longer easter weekend instead of forcing people to turn for subs so early. How about giving huge extension of interval in thu-fri, still keeping QH enabled?

I second the notion, extending the time limit over the Easter weekend is a good idea.

[jimbojones1971]

Sorry about the state turn, I lost power for a day and couldnt get online.

Yeah, I have had similar issues (just with my ISP, rather than with the power grid) in the past - not too much you can do about it, often you can't even write a forum not to ask for an extension :mad:

Never mind, hopefully it won't have too much of an impact. :)

[Anaconda]

Sauromatia gone already?

[Rejakor]

Not going to be able to take turns over the easter long weekend. This turn is the only one i'll be able to take until your tuesday.

[jimbojones1971]

Yep, Sauro is dead. Well, AI. And soon to be dead. Disappointing, but such is life!

After this turn, we'll do an extension through to Tuesday Rej. I'll send out a message to all players letting them know what the go is.

[Rejakor]

I can take turns again.

[Legendary League]

Hi hi, this is Helheim speaking.

We haven't found a good source of oil yet, so we need subsidies to fund our economy please. Does anyone have gold on them? We'll sell your gems and magic items! Really!

[Rejakor]

Sigh, Strength of the Boars is such a kludge. And murders all my oni.

OH WELL TIME TO BUILD MORE ONI GOOD THING THEY'RE RESOURCE COST 1.

[krpeters]

Yeah, build more low-protection troops, my javelineers and slingers need more target practice!

[Legendary League]

Why are Asterix and Ani-men fighting! This makes us sad. :(

[Rejakor]

Asterix decided he needed to attack me for funsies.

So i'm going to teach him why not wearing armour when facing ogre-strength enemies wielding greatswords is not such a great idea.

[krpeters]

The tree hugging druids of Marveni will never stand for goblins, orcs, and freaky demon things living under the forest canopy! Go back to the foul wastes from which you came!

[Rejakor]

Well, you're attacking 'where we came from' so


and we're not freaky, we're hungry

really really hungry

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Atlantis, I have reports that you have 2 wild ettins in province 6. You don't have any native nature mages, and your pretender is a kraken like mine, so Im guessing you didn't summon them. So Im assuming you bought them from that bugged site. I realize that the initial game post didn't specify this, but that is widely perceived to be an exploit. I certainly consider it to be.

Personally, I think you should not recruit any more, and try to find a way to suicide the ones you have. But if other people think it's ok, then I guess you could keep them, though I wouldn't be very cool with that.

[megawidget]

Atlantis, I have reports that you have 2 wild ettins in province 6. You don't have any native nature mages, and your pretender is a kraken like mine, so Im guessing you didn't summon them. So Im assuming you bought them from that bugged site. I realize that the initial game post didn't specify this, but that is widely perceived to be an exploit. I certainly consider it to be.

Personally, I think you should not recruit any more, and try to find a way to suicide the ones you have. But if other people think it's ok, then I guess you could keep them, though I wouldn't be very cool with that.

Exactly. The initial game post didn't specify this. Frankly, I knew it was a bug but I wouldn't consider that an "exploit" anymore than using an alteration site to wish for gems an "exploit".

What do the rest of the players think, however?

[Calahan]

Atlantis, I have reports that you have 2 wild ettins in province 6. You don't have any native nature mages, and your pretender is a kraken like mine, so Im guessing you didn't summon them. So Im assuming you bought them from that bugged site. I realize that the initial game post didn't specify this, but that is widely perceived to be an exploit. I certainly consider it to be.

Personally, I think you should not recruit any more, and try to find a way to suicide the ones you have. But if other people think it's ok, then I guess you could keep them, though I wouldn't be very cool with that.

Exactly. The initial game post didn't specify this. Frankly, I knew it was a bug but I wouldn't consider that an "exploit" anymore than using an alteration site to wish for gems an "exploit".

What do the rest of the players think, however?
What?!?!

The free Ettin's are clearly a mistake caused by a typing error in the CBM mod. Free Ettin's are not intended to be available from magic sites in any way, and comparing them to anything else that is intended to be in the game is simply ridiculous. Regardless of how powerful you think what you are comparing it to might be. Plus the barrier to entry between using an Alt site for Wish and recruiting free Ettins is as wide as the universe itself.

And the fact that you know it's a bug and yet decide to exploit it anyway marks you out as an out and out cheating douchebag in my books.


Edit - You've made the HoF. Congrats! -- http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=68&view=findpost&p=22003703