a lEArning experience (Newbie EA CBM1.92) [in progress]

[megawidget]

This game is intended for people who, like me, have nil multiplayer experience with Dominions 3, and want to try their hand at a comparatively quick game. I will be running this on llamaserver. Yes, I have no experience doing so. I'm sure this will turn out fine. :re:

Age......: Early Age.
Settings.: All default, except renaming is allowed and HoF 15.
Mods.....: CBM 1.92; Streamers & Standards (this one is purely cosmetic)
Players #: 10 (we hit capacity, but no-one will be left behind!)
Map......: Land of Ethereal Squirrels (even more finaler version)
Diplomacy: Formal mutual agreements should be adhered to to the letter, but not necessarily the spirit. Honor trades. Otherwise anything goes!
Turn Freq: 48h quickhost, to be adjusted as necessary when turns get longer. I'll try to be understanding and not let players stall.
Other....: In part due to the low number of players, I would strongly recommend that players never go AI and fight to the bitter end. Once again, this is A Learning Experience!

Nations:
Adam J - T'ien Ch'i
Aderion - Caelum
jotwebe - Pangaea
KeithZ - Yomi
mattyburn7 - Helheim
megawidget - Mictlan
Procyon Lotor - Arcoscephale
samoht - Niefelheim
shard - Agartha
ulius - Atlantis

Game URL:
http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=ALearningExperience

How to upload pretenders:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=529316&postcount=2
Use 'ALearningExperience' in the subject when emailing llamaserver.

[parone]

would love to get in. currently in two games, but not prospering. total, i have played maybe 25 turns of MP.

is this MA? if so, i'd like to try Ulm. they are the only nation i have any experience with.

[Austen]

I know you have this set up as EA, but like the previous poster, if this could be MA, I would love to join as Vanheim.

I have about the same thing.. in 2 games, getting crushed... not very many turns.

Edit - One other thing.. I would recommend starting with a 24 hour quick host and then increasing.. the first few turns don't seem to really need 48...

[mattyburn7]

I may have missed it, but did you state what age you are playing?

As of 2 months ago I hadn't played any MP games and was a below average SP player. Since then I've gotten addicted and am in the middle of 4 games currently. I'm learning a lot, but I think i'm still wayyyyyy behind the learning curve. Anyway. Its up to you. If you want another person I'm happy to play if you'll have me.

Cheers

[Austen]

His Subject says EA, but pile on with us to convince him to change it to MA! :D

[megawidget]

I only posted the age in the title of the thread, but it's EA. I've made the edit to the original post to clarify this.

If people overwhelmingly prefer MA I'm willing to change it, though given that I've never tried MA even in single player I'll probably be doing a lot more floundering. :confused:

[Austen]

It's your game, don't let us bully you! MA seems a bit more balanced to me. EA seems like it is dominated by bless rushes.

If you really want to do EA, then stick to it. :) I logged on to post that I was going to start a game with almost identical parameters except MA and I saw yours and decided to hold off so as not to cannibalize the noobs.

It could very well be that there are enough interested noobs to do both and I could do an MA and you could stick to EA.

[mattyburn7]

i'm good with MA.

[megawidget]

It's your game, don't let us bully you! MA seems a bit more balanced to me. EA seems like it is dominated by bless rushes.

If you really want to do EA, then stick to it. :) I logged on to post that I was going to start a game with almost identical parameters except MA and I saw yours and decided to hold off so as not to cannibalize the noobs.

It could very well be that there are enough interested noobs to do both and I could do an MA and you could stick to EA.

I *do* want to try MA -- there are some interesting game mechanics that are MA-exclusive -- so if we have enough newbies for both I could also join yours. I'm already going to be joining another EA game, but I think I should be able to handle three games.

So how about this: if I don't get enough players willing to do EA then I'll change it to MA. Otherwise you can start the MA game and I'll be happy to join! :D

Also regarding turn length -- I'm having it at 48h quickhost to ensure people don't stall, but since it's quickhost and we have few players I'm expecting the turns to go faster. 24h quickhost is going to be too short for those like me who can only commit turns when they find the time in the evening.

[Austen]

Very good, I posted mine.. I liked your formatting, so I used it as a template :)

[megawidget]

Since you went ahead and did it, I changed mine back to EA.

Now wondering if anyone actually wants to play EA with the other EA games currently going... :poke:

[Aderion]

Hi megawidget,

I would like to join this game as Caelum.I am currently playing my first MP game which is currently around Turn 14. Since I got the game about one month ago, I am rather inexperienced overall, especially with all the fency stuff one can do later in the game...



Also regarding turn length -- I'm having it at 48h quickhost to ensure people don't stall, but since it's quickhost and we have few players I'm expecting the turns to go faster. 24h quickhost is going to be too short for those like me who can only commit turns when they find the time in the evening.

I have similar issues and thus I would also prefer a turn length of 48h quickhost.

[mattyburn7]

EA Tir na N'og for me

[Adam J]

I'd like to join if possible! If we do EA I'd like Tien Chin, if we do MA I think I'd like to try Ulm. I don't have any preference regarding the age.

[Procyon Lotor]

I would love to join this game. This would be my first MP game. It sounds like someone else has beat me to EA Tien Chi, so can I take Arcosephale?

[megawidget]

Gonna let this thread sit for another day or two to see if anyone else wants to join, but other than that it looks like we're good to start!

[shard]

I havent played for nearly 3 years now and seems a lot of the game has passed me by. I dont think I recognise a quarter of the races now...
If you don't mind me jumping me I'd like to join as well (plus I think its the only game available to get my feet wet again as I install the game in my new office...)

I HAVE played some mp before though and if I join be sure to tremble before my rusty, outdated, strategies! :D

[Aderion]

Gonna let this thread sit for another day or two to see if anyone else wants to join, but other than that it looks like we're good to start!

So what map are we playing on? Do you already have one in mind?

[megawidget]

I havent played for nearly 3 years now and seems a lot of the game has passed me by. I dont think I recognise a quarter of the races now...
If you don't mind me jumping me I'd like to join as well (plus I think its the only game available to get my feet wet again as I install the game in my new office...)

I HAVE played some mp before though and if I join be sure to tremble before my rusty, outdated, strategies! :D

That's ok! I'll just put in a note that we gotta dogpile you ASAP. :D

Pick a race and I'll add you to the list.

[megawidget]

So what map are we playing on? Do you already have one in mind?

Not yet. Was going to take the final number of players, multiply it by some integer no greater than 15, and look for a map with those parameters.

Do people have preferences? Also, how many provinces do people want per player? I'm thinking maybe 12 will make for a pretty well-paced game.

[samoht]

I was wondering if you were still taking new players. If not, thats totally fine.

I'm currently playing my first ever MP games. One is vanilla, mixed vets and noobs, the other is CBM mixed vets and noobs. I'm in the process of losing the second game before I really got anything going, so I was wondering if you wouldn't mind me joining and trying out Niefelheim.

[mattyburn7]

Nation Switch:

Can you switch me from Tir Na N'og to Caelum please?

Thanks!

[megawidget]

Nation Switch:

Can you switch me from Tir Na N'og to Caelum please?

Thanks!

Aderion is already Caelum.
Van- and Hel- are still open though, if you desperately want a wintry nation. :p

[shard]

Oh snap, forgot about picking a race.

I will take Agartha then, they seem almost unrecognisable.

This will be using the llamathingy pbem right?

[megawidget]

Oh snap, forgot about picking a race.

I will take Agartha then, they seem almost unrecognisable.

This will be using the llamathingy pbem right?

Yep, it'll be llamaserver.

I tried Agartha briefly in SP, and while their troops still can't hit the broad side of the barn, they at least get a holy national to boost their troops' attack, at the risk of a battle fright affliction. It's up to you if you think it's worth it. Well, more like, it's really up to the AI. :p

[mattyburn7]

ok. How about Helheim then...I'll give them a whirl.

[shard]

Aha I see what you mean... oh well, its fine. After all its a IEArning experience!

[KeithZ]

Can I still join? I 'd like to play Yomi.

[jotwebe]

... and I'd like to give Pangaea a whirl, if that's still possible.

[ulius]

Hi,
I bought Dominions 3 just recently and found it quite enjoyable so far. So if that's still possible, I'd be eager to join my first MP game with you :-).

Since all the races I'm familiar with are already taken I'd have to take a look into the ones that are left to pick.

[megawidget]

Hi,
I bought Dominions 3 just recently and found it quite enjoyable so far. So if that's still possible, I'd be eager to join my first MP game with you :-).

Since all the races I'm familiar with are already taken I'd have to take a look into the ones that are left to pick.

We have hit capacity, but we should be able to swing 10 players. So pick a race and we'll start!

How do you feel about an underwater nation? I would prefer a smaller map, and it's very probable we'll have water on it enough for at least one nation.

[ulius]

Never played one, so I wouldn't really know what to do with it. But it's a game, so who cares? Yes, why not try something new? Sounds like a good idea to me.

But let me take a brief look at those underwater nations first.

[megawidget]

Now that we're filled we have to pick a map.

I propose we use the Land of Ethereal Squirrels:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=713239

Outside of the obvious perk of having ethereal squirrels, it has 103 land + 13 sea provinces, with 11.444 provinces for each land player, and 13 for the one water player. This should make for a reasonably paced game even with 10 players.

ulius, you'll have to pick a water nation for this one as we have all the land nations we need. Which should be fun! :) I'm personally a huge fan of water nations, though I have no justification for that whatsoever -- I guess I just like lurking.

If there are no counter proposals, I'll host the game on llamaserver tomorrow night (I am GMT -8) and players will be able to upload pretenders.

[megawidget]

Never played one, so I wouldn't really know what to do with it. But it's a game, so who cares? Yes, why not try something new? Sounds like a good idea to me.

But let me take a brief look at those underwater nations first.

Take your time. Just make sure to state your choice in the forums by the time you choose your pretender! :)

[ulius]

Atlantis, Emergence of The Deep Ones, it is.
They ... will ... emerge.

[ulius]

Now that we're filled we have to pick a map.
I propose we use the Land of Ethereal Squirrels:


I like the look of the map but I just tested it and I was placed in the lake province in the middle as Atlantis. That wouldn't be very ... convenient for me if it happened in our game. Any suggestions?

[jotwebe]

Nice, I like wraparounds.

There's a slight issue with this map on linux: the .tga file is named LandofEtherealSquirrels.tga, but the .map file has the name in lowercase. Since linux is case-sensitive I had to rename the .tga file - hopefully this won't mess with compability or something.

[megawidget]

Nice, I like wraparounds.

There's a slight issue with this map on linux: the .tga file is named LandofEtherealSquirrels.tga, but the .map file has the name in lowercase. Since linux is case-sensitive I had to rename the .tga file - hopefully this won't mess with compability or something.

Where'd you get the map? Mine has both in the same camel case, and I got it here:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=713239

[megawidget]

Now that we're filled we have to pick a map.
I propose we use the Land of Ethereal Squirrels:


I like the look of the map but I just tested it and I was placed in the lake province in the middle as Atlantis. That wouldn't be very ... convenient for me if it happened in our game. Any suggestions?

Haha!
Complain here if that happens and we'll restart. :)

[jotwebe]

Where'd you get the map? Mine has both in the same camel case, and I got it here:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=713239

That's where I got it from, too (the "even more final" zip). And both the .map and the .tga are in camel-case - that's the problem, I think.
The .map file is a text file with all the data about its provinces and so on.

At the start it tells dominions where to get the image - and here's a quote from it. As you can see in the #imagefile line, it specifies it in lowercase.

-- Title and image file
#dom2title The Land of Ethereal Squirrels
#imagefile landofetherealsquirrels.tga
#domversion 175
#wraparound
#defaultmapzoom 1.00
#description "An infinite world full of ethereal beings, but primarily known of
ethereal squirrels. This is the fixed version of 22.2.2010."

That's no problem in windows, windows ignores case. On linux however there's a difference between landofetherealsquirrels.tga and LandofEtherealSquirrels.tga, and so dominions gets told "there's no such file here, sucka". Then dominions crashes :doh:

One fix would be to change the #imagefile line in the .map file to CamelCase, but I'm a bit worried that there'd be problems when the .map files aren't exactly the same, even if there's no difference for the actual map. Maybe someone with more MP experience knows?

The fix I went for is to rename the .tga file to lowercase, which leaves the .map file completely unchanged. I don't expect the server to care about the map images, so I hope it'll be ok.

I'm a bit surprised it hasn't come up in all the time the map has been in use.

[megawidget]

The fix I went for is to rename the .tga file to lowercase, which leaves the .map file completely unchanged. I don't expect the server to care about the map images, so I hope it'll be ok.

Good catch!
I've actually went ahead and uploaded a fixed map to llamaserver:
http://www.llamaserver.net/mapModBrowser.cgi
It's the last one there. I also removed the lake start. Will create a game in a few minutes and people will be able to upload pretenders!

[megawidget]

Game's up! Get your pretenders in and we'll start.

[jotwebe]

Sweet!

Charles Darwin is ready to lead Pangaea to victory... or extinction...

[samoht]

Dane Cook is ready to spread his frozen dominion across the world.

[megawidget]

All shout glory hallelujah! A Maizing Grace will spread his warmth across the lands.

Disclaimer: blood sacrifice may be involved.

[ulius]

[QUOTE=jotwebe;798198]
I also removed the lake start. Will create a game in a few minutes and people will be able to upload pretenders!

Thank you good Sir, we couldn't stand being called "The Oh Not Half as Deep as I Thought Ones".

Now we're ready to really rise under the lead of the glorious ... (drumroll) ... Morda.

[Adam J]

All shall kneel before the mighty Long Wang, god of T'ien Chi!

[samoht]

I keep telling myself that one of these days I'm going to have a serious name for one of my pretenders...

[megawidget]

I would love to join this game. This would be my first MP game. It sounds like someone else has beat me to EA Tien Chi, so can I take Arcosephale?

Arcoscephaleeeeee! We're waiting on your pretender!

I'm hoping to start this tomorrow evening at the latest (GMT -8).

[megawidget]

Thank you good Sir, we couldn't stand being called "The Oh Not Half as Deep as I Thought Ones".

Now we're ready to really rise under the lead of the glorious ... (drumroll) ... Morda.

If Arcoscephale fails to sign up by tonight, are you OK starting as an underwater nation still, or would you prefer to take his land spot?

[ulius]

Thank you good Sir, we couldn't stand being called "The Oh Not Half as Deep as I Thought Ones".

Now we're ready to really rise under the lead of the glorious ... (drumroll) ... Morda.

If Arcoscephale fails to sign up by tonight, are you OK starting as an underwater nation still, or would you prefer to take his land spot?

thanks for asking, actually I'd prefer Sauromatia, Amazon Queens, but I haven't set up a pretender yet. When are you going to start the game?

[megawidget]

thanks for asking, actually I'd prefer Sauromatia, Amazon Queens, but I haven't set up a pretender yet. When are you going to start the game?

I was intending to start midnight, GMT -8. If Arco doesn't post a pretender by then take his spot, and I'll start the first thing next morning!
FYI, I have deleted your Atlantis pretender, so you'll need to resubmit it if he ends up joining, but otherwise you should be able to upload a Sauromatia pretender! I would assume if you were to upload a Sauro pretender with Atlantis still there you'd end up playing two nations. (???)

[ulius]

As it turned out I won't have the time this night to create a new pretender. So I'll just resubmit and go with Atlantis. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[Procyon Lotor]

Eek! I'm loading I'm loading!

[shard]

Did you manage to load your pretender properly?

Its pretty straightforward, just follow the instructions in the link provided below....
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35160

Oops - Megawidget already posted the link on the first page so nvm...

[megawidget]

Eek! I'm loading I'm loading!

Are you having technical issues? Note that both CBM1.92 and Streamers & Standards are required, even though I don't see what effective difference the latter would make as it's cosmetic flag changes only.

[samoht]

Eek! I'm loading I'm loading!

Are you having technical issues? Note that both CBM1.92 and Streamers & Standards are required, even though I don't see what effective difference the latter would make as it's cosmetic flag changes only.

This is totally my bad and I don't know what, if anything, this might effect, but I think the pretender I uploaded I had made with the Single Age mod active. Should I remake it and upload it again?

[Procyon Lotor]

This is my first game, so let me know if my Pretender isn't there or is screwed up. I followed the directions, so it *should* be okay. It took me a while to get the mods loaded properly, but I got it done.

I am now ready to conquer you. (Tactic: talk tough to cover weakness and fear)

[shard]

Its not there yet....
Did you receive a confirmation email from llama?
Remember to use exactly the same name in the subject!
ALearningExperience (no spaces)

[Adam J]

Procyon Lotor- We've been waiting three days now for you to enter your pretender...

[megawidget]

Eek! I'm loading I'm loading!

Are you having technical issues? Note that both CBM1.92 and Streamers & Standards are required, even though I don't see what effective difference the latter would make as it's cosmetic flag changes only.

This is totally my bad and I don't know what, if anything, this might effect, but I think the pretender I uploaded I had made with the Single Age mod active. Should I remake it and upload it again?

It's probably a good idea to be safe. I'm not sure if llamaserver will outright reject invalid pretenders, or whether they'll just invalidate your turn submissions, and Single Age mod doesn't necessarily make your pretender design invalid. Someone who has played before may shed more light on this?

Procyon, what trouble are you having? You didn't appear to have any issues in the WhatCouldGoWrong game we're both in. :confused:

Should I just force start the game or should I wait? I'm loathe to leave behind a player who's at least active in the thread and is trying to get in, but I don't want to hold everyone else back either.

[Procyon Lotor]

No confirmation e-mail, alas. I thought I did it correctly. I will resubmit when I get back to work tonight.

Apologies to all for the delay! I promise to roll over in the game and allow you to crush me under your boots.

[ulius]

I don't mind waiting another day or two. Can't miss being crushed by Procyon Lotor

[megawidget]

We have started! Alas, I am sorely befuddled. Is anyone else seeing victory provinces on their maps? I am quite certain I configured the game to be without. Are they active? How does one check?

[mattyburn7]

I'm pretty sure they show up even if inactivated. Someone else please confirm.

[jotwebe]

If they were active, they'd have their own graph on the stats.

What's everybodies preferred method for diplo, now that we are under way? PM's here on the forum, IRC?

[mattyburn7]

I usually prefer PM's here. Sometimes through game can be fun but then there are delays between turns for responses.

[shard]

Whats the significance of the vp provs?

Restricting diplo to just in-game makes for much faster play since you can just concentrate on the game mechanics.

PMs means you wait for replies to your messages so you could end up waiting til the last possible moment before uploading your turns (or worse, forget entirely!)

I prefer the former unless I am playing a specifically AAR-heavy game (The creative writing bit takes ages....) but I`m ok either way.

[megawidget]

Whats the significance of the vp provs?

Restricting diplo to just in-game makes for much faster play since you can just concentrate on the game mechanics.

PMs means you wait for replies to your messages so you could end up waiting til the last possible moment before uploading your turns (or worse, forget entirely!)

I prefer the former unless I am playing a specifically AAR-heavy game (The creative writing bit takes ages....) but I`m ok either way.

I think you can win the game by accumulating enough victory points you get by holding victory provinces for a certain amount of time.

As far as diplomacy goes I'm personally using forum PMs because, frankly, in-game messaging system really sucks. Also, I *am* considering doing AARs for all my games, so having raw texts around will come in handy. Email is fine too, in fact it is better probably as I'm more likely to respond to an email when I receive it than to a PM which requires me to be active on the forums.

[samoht]

I check the PMs here at least once a day, so if anybody wants to get their diplomacy on with the Ice Giants, this is the best way to get at me.

Also I think the VPs automatically show up and everything, but they don't count for anything unless they are active. Some weird bug with Llamaserver. In the other two games I'm playing thats how it is there, too.

[ulius]

Diplo: You can contact me in-game or via PN. I'll check my PN regularly.

We Atlantians appreciate every trade proposals, NAP offer, sneaky attack offensive alliances against common enemies or any other diplomatic act directed to us. And be sure Atlantis will never stab you in the back after an agreement. We're just like those really cute dolphins helping people not to drown. Really!

[Procyon Lotor]

Sorry to be the slow member of the herd, but I can't load the game. It says I need "llamaBanner.dm". I loaded the Banners mod referenced at the top. What am I missing?!?

[jotwebe]

Do you have the llamaBanners mod unpacked in your mod directory? There should be a file called llamaBanners.dm and a directory called llamaBanners with lots of .icon files inside.

I think it should automatically activate the correct mods for each game. Otherwise try activating it under preferences->mod preferences.

You also need CBM (conceptual balance mod) version 1.92 - I take it that worked without problems?

[Adam J]

Procyon- Make sure you get the mod llamabanners at http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39989

You might be confusing llamabanners with the original streamers and standards.

[megawidget]

Procyon- Make sure you get the mod llamabanners at http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39989

You might be confusing llamabanners with the original streamers and standards.

The streamers & standards linked off of llamaserver *are* llamabanners, and those are the ones I meant. I'm sorry if that caused any confusion.

I have postponed the 1st turn by an additional day in case people are still having issues. It'll still quickhost though if they don't.

[Procyon Lotor]

I *am* confusing llamabanners with the original. Thanks for the help. In consideration for your kindness, I will crush you last.

[Procyon Lotor]

The turn is in. This llamaserver is slick!

[megawidget]

Now it's just Caelum and Niefelheim who are being :cool: glacial.

[jotwebe]

Now it's just Caelum and Niefelheim who are being :cool: glacial.

Maybe they took too much Sloth? ;)

[shard]

As a comparison, the 16 player anonymous in-game-diplo-only game which I joined just after this one is already on turn 7 or 8 with no stales :D

[samoht]

Now it's just Caelum and Niefelheim who are being :cool: glacial.

Maybe they took too much Sloth? ;)

Glacial? Well they ARE ice giants. :p

All kidding aside, I had a busy day but I'm doing my turn... RIGHT... NOW!

[megawidget]

Now it's just Caelum and Niefelheim who are being :cool: glacial.

Maybe they took too much Sloth? ;)

Glacial? Well they ARE ice giants. :p

All kidding aside, I had a busy day but I'm doing my turn... RIGHT... NOW!


peers at score graph
Let's see... awake pretender and high(ish) dominion as Niefelheim? :cold:

Also, wow does my starting location suck.

[samoht]

Maybe they took too much Sloth? ;)

Glacial? Well they ARE ice giants. :p

All kidding aside, I had a busy day but I'm doing my turn... RIGHT... NOW!


peers at score graph
Let's see... awake pretender and high(ish) dominion as Niefelheim? :cold:

Also, wow does my starting location suck.

Perhaps. Or perhaps everything about my nation, including its dominion, is simply... giant? ;)

[jotwebe]

Also, wow does my starting location suck.

Heh, not exactly thrilled about mine, too. I guess the poor shall always be with us... :rolleyes:

[Procyon Lotor]

Dude. I will trade starting locations with ANY of you. I can't imagine a crappier starting location. Maybe underwater with my non-aquatic race would be worse.

Barely.

[jotwebe]

Moaning about starting locations: the sport of gods.

[mattyburn7]

No one took a province turn 1. interesting. Easy to tell who has awake pretenders.

[samoht]

Moaning about starting locations: the sport of gods.

It appears I can't send you a private message in the forums. Is there a way, other than in game, we can communicate?

[jotwebe]

Ahm it so happens that I had forgotten to turn on private messaging. Actually, I had assumed it started activated. Anyway, now it is.

[ulius]

Ahm it so happens that I had forgotten to turn on private messaging. Actually, I had assumed it started activated. Anyway, now it is.

same here :o

[Procyon Lotor]

Moaning about starting locations: the sport of gods.

:D

The sport of the pretender gods.

[Adam J]

I see there are victory points on the score graph. Are they being used?

[mattyburn7]

I'm pretty sure not. I think score graphs who VP whether activated or not.

[megawidget]

Sorry for holding everyone up. Was having issues with attachments in gmail and couldn't download my turn -- quite weird. Should be able to take the turn later tonight.

My location still really sucks. In fact, I'm willing to take bets that mine sucks more than anyone else's. :( Maybe in a few turns the complainers can compare notes?

[shard]

Just a guess... but I dont think Arco has had the best of starts...

[ulius]

Should we wait for Yomi? deadline is soon.

[Procyon Lotor]

Arco is also run by an intellectual midget.

I am not long for this world :(

[megawidget]

Did someone stale? :confused:

I was hoping the longer turn duration would avoid that.

[ulius]

I'm interested in your story Arco. What's been going on with you?

[mattyburn7]

Yes, Arco...what did happen. Perhaps we can offer words of wisdom for the next game?

[megawidget]

Hey guys, did anyone else stale? I didn't actually stale because I submitted a preliminary turn -- I tend to have second thoughts and resubmit turns -- but upon trying to submit a turn that actually had *battle orders* for a change :doh: I got hit by this:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=799390&postcount=165

If nobody seriously objects I would like to roll back the game to the previous turn and resubmit. If people object, then I'm frankly even more screwed -- to be honest, I don't need artificial handicaps at this point. :(

[samoht]

I'm not entirely opposed to the idea, but I have heard a lot of more experienced players ay that roll backs can potentially screw up the game with random bugs.

[jotwebe]

Go ahead on my account... although I'll rather miss the permanent +50 gold I got this turn *sniffle*

[mattyburn7]

I second samoht. I'm not opposed. I know that is frustrating and I don't want any advantages from things like that. However I have heard the same things on boards with experienced players that rollback doesn't appear all that safe and reliable. Feeling from others seems to be never rollback but if we do I'm not going to complain or fault anyone.
Cheers.

[Aderion]

Actually I would feel rather unconfortable with a rollback. Especially, since we are currently engaged in military actions and you now have already seen my planed moves, giving you a serious advantage which could turn to a very serious handicap for me.

On the other hand, I understand that it sucks for you that you could not submit your optimized orders which might have made a difference or not. Nevertheless I would object to a rollback.

However, if all others agree to a rollback, I will live with it...

[Adam J]

I'm more or less neutral on the rollback- personally I'm in favor of it but that's only because of bad luck, not a particularly good justification. However I can certainly understand Aderion's concerns and believe if he objects we shouldn't do the rollback- I suspect his birdmen seriously benefit from the element of surprise.

[mattyburn7]

In another game. Someone referred to them as flying rats :)...However seeing as I'm playing Caelum in another EA game, I'm going to be most respectful to the Eagle Kings!

[Adam J]

Mega widget- I presume you would simply submit the rejected orders? Aderion has very valid concerns that you would benefit from the rollback from seeing his military actions. If the orders you submit were from before the turn processed that might alleviate his concerns.

[megawidget]

Mega widget- I presume you would simply submit the rejected orders? Aderion has very valid concerns that you would benefit from the rollback from seeing his military actions. If the orders you submit were from before the turn processed that might alleviate his concerns.

I wasn't intending to cheat, and I haven't seen the latest turn yet.

However, upon consideration I have decided not to roll back, as that screws everyone but me over given that they'll know other people's moves. Yeah, it means I'm really really really ****ed. I had a start worse than Arcoscephale (we talked, and he had a pretty bad one, but he was also less cautious expanding than me and paid for it) so Dominions 3 hates me, and I guess Llamaserver hates me as well. I'll live. Well, more likely not. :hurt: But I shouldn't penalize everyone else for this.

[samoht]

Mega widget- I presume you would simply submit the rejected orders? Aderion has very valid concerns that you would benefit from the rollback from seeing his military actions. If the orders you submit were from before the turn processed that might alleviate his concerns.

I wasn't intending to cheat, and I haven't seen the latest turn yet.

However, upon consideration I have decided not to roll back, as that screws everyone but me over given that they'll know other people's moves. Yeah, it means I'm really really really ****ed. I had a start worse than Arcoscephale (we talked, and he had a pretty bad one, but he was also less cautious expanding than me and paid for it) so Dominions 3 hates me, and I guess Llamaserver hates me as well. I'll live. Well, more likely not. :hurt: But I shouldn't penalize everyone else for this.

Eh. It happens. The second game I ever played (this game only being the third) I started in a corner almost right next to two nations who were allied and proceeded to push me into my capital and keep me there from about the middle of the second year until I was eliminated. I think in some respects Dominions is a lot like Dwarf Fortress where half the fun is seeing how you're going to lose this time. :)

[mattyburn7]

The good news is there is always another game and more fun right around the corner!

[Procyon Lotor]

I think in some respects Dominions is a lot like Dwarf Fortress where half the fun is seeing how you're going to lose this time. :)

Cheers to that! I am enjoying the telling of the tragic tale of Arcosephale.

[Procyon Lotor]

Here is the Tragic Tale: I had three provinces adjacent to my start. One was weakly defended, but rather worthless. The other two were more stiffly defended, but more valuable. Of those two, one had heavy cavalry. The other had infantry and light cavalry. So I took a stab at the latter, only to find that they had heavy cavalry also. It was actually a close fight, down to my last infantry squad advancing on their horse archers. But they didn't get there.

So my 2nd turn expansion failed. It was a very close call, within the margin of error of the RNG. I rolled the dice and failed, but I don't necessarily regret it.

I regrouped a turn, then tried again. Actually, that was my REAL mistake. Since I had routed all but 6 horse archers, I should have attacked again immediately. I thought the AI forces were like province defense, and I expected them to regenerate. Total n00b error.

Anyone ever play Jagged Alliance 2? Think of me now as Elliot. I am a simpering little turd, motivated only by fear. Slap me and threaten me and I'll do whatever you want. Just please stop slapping me!

[megawidget]

Here is the Tragic Tale: I had three provinces adjacent to my start. One was weakly defended, but rather worthless. The other two were more stiffly defended, but more valuable. Of those two, one had heavy cavalry. The other had infantry and light cavalry. So I took a stab at the latter, only to find that they had heavy cavalry also. It was actually a close fight, down to my last infantry squad advancing on their horse archers. But they didn't get there.

So my 2nd turn expansion failed. It was a very close call, within the margin of error of the RNG. I rolled the dice and failed, but I don't necessarily regret it.

I regrouped a turn, then tried again. Actually, that was my REAL mistake. Since I had routed all but 6 horse archers, I should have attacked again immediately. I thought the AI forces were like province defense, and I expected them to regenerate. Total n00b error.

Anyone ever play Jagged Alliance 2? Think of me now as Elliot. I am a simpering little turd, motivated only by fear. Slap me and threaten me and I'll do whatever you want. Just please stop slapping me!

I started next to dark vines, elephants, and horse archers. And when I took the horse archers province (phew!) it was adjacent to barbarians and moar barbarians, and one relatively lightly defended. Which was adjacent to Caelum. And Arcoscephale. :doh:

I literally had no choice but to snake path my way into trouble. Funny that I lead in forts and provinces, though the latter is from the bottom of the list....

[jotwebe]

Hmm, three provinces and one of them dark vines is probably the worst so far. Seems like three province starts were pretty common though. I had one, too, and at least one other player.

[megawidget]

Can someone just siege my capital already so that the agony will end? Please? :hurt:

[samoht]

Can someone just siege my capital already so that the agony will end? Please? :hurt:

I could be there for you in two turns if you'd like?

[megawidget]

Can someone just siege my capital already so that the agony will end? Please? :hurt:

I could be there for you in two turns if you'd like?

Haha. I think Caelum gets dibs... but yes, I think you should try to make way to me through Caelum-controlled territory. I'm sure it'll turn out ok. ;)

After all, you went with a high bless Niefel Jarl strategy. Oh wait! :doh: You didn't. :p

Jokes aside, souped up Niefel Jarls with the rings of lightning resistance would completely slaughter Caelum. I wish *I* were playing Niefelheim...

[shard]

Sorry I would like to request a 12hr extension as I am having a few net problems on my dom pc and might not get my turn in on time

[megawidget]

Sorry I would like to request a 12hr extension as I am having a few net problems on my dom pc and might not get my turn in on time

granted

[megawidget]

Hey all, I've gone AI. Adam J is the new admin, so bug him if anything!

[samoht]

From the 6th-9th I will most likely not be able to play any of my turns. I'm going to Puerto Rico for a wedding. What is the best way to handle this?

[mattyburn7]

In another game we checked to see if the person could get a temp sub for a couple of days, otherwise we could put the game on hold for that time. We ended up putting it on hold. I'm ok with that too as The Easter weekend will be really busy with me, but if you can find a temp sub that is fine too.

[Adam J]

I think it makes sense to put the game on hold during the easter break... I'll set the timer to ensure that no turn hosts from the 6th to the 9th. I'll leave on autohosting in case everyone finds a way to get their turn on. Hopefully I won't mess it up... this is my first multiplayer game so I'm not familiar with the admin controls- they look simple enough though.

[samoht]

Thanks! I really appreciate it.

[samoht]

Would it be possible to delay this turn by just a couple of hours? I'm posting this from work. I think I'll probably be able to make it back in time, but it will be close. If it isn't possible, thats fine.

[mattyburn7]

I delayed it 6 hours. If you need anymore time, just let me know.

Cheers!

[Procyon Lotor]

So I've been eliminated. Do I need to do something to "go AI" or does the game know to just ignore me and not wait for my turn?

[mattyburn7]

There's always a 1 turn lag like that..I forget why. But no need to do anything. Sorry for the bad luck you encountered!

[Adam J]

Looks like Atlantis stalled last turn... anyone speak with Ulius lately?

[mattyburn7]

You know what. I forgot Ulius is playing Atlantis. I believe he was having internet issues.

[Adam J]

Any idea how significant the internet issue is? Do you know if we need to delay hosting? Does he need a sub?

[mattyburn7]

I would say let's keep an eye on it and delay if he doesn't post turn. He had some posts on March Madness game. Basically he's travelling and having internet problems on the road. Not sure how long he is travelling. Hopefully he can post so we know status.

I know in that game he is last person to post turn.

But I would say if he hasn't sent in turn by tomorrow morning we should give extension.

[Adam J]

Sounds good- we'll extend in the morning if he hasn't submitted. I'm delegating that task to you if you don't mind.

[mattyburn7]

Will do. I'll send myself an email so I don't forget.

[mattyburn7]

He staled in march madness again. They are questioning whether they need a sub. I delayed this turn 24 h. But I am going to start looking for a sub.

Ulius: if you can please let us know what is up.

[Adam J]

Looks like Ulius is officially MIA. His last turn stalled despite having nearly a week. I propose giving him 48 hours to reappear, during which time we start to look for a permanent sub, a process that Mattyburn has graciously begun. If he doesn't reappear during this time we give his spot to a sub. If we don't find a sub, we will set him AI. Hopefully that won't unbalance the game too much, almost all of his territories are underwater now that Caelum apparently knocked him back in his pond. I'm open to alternative suggestions if anyone has any...

[samoht]

Your plan sounds fair. Life happens sometimes. I hope everything is well with him.

[mattyburn7]

Far as I could tell from another game. He had a trip (not sure if it was work or pleasure) and had internet issues.

[mattyburn7]

I've gotten interest from a possible sub: Balaskar. I am going to send him the turn as soon as I get his email. I"m also going to delay hosting another 24 hours.

Apologies everyone and thanks for your patience. Hopefully in just a bit this game will be off and running again.

Cheers!

[shard]

A pity though that Megawidget wasnt around to witness the fireworks outside his capital when Tien Chi kicked out the sieging Eaglemen.

Though I dont suppose that wasnt entirely out of the goodness of his heart :p

By the way; whats `The Huntress`? Is that a new CBM summon for Niefel?

[samoht]

I wish it were a summon. I'd be summoning the crap out of her. Every. Turn.

Unfortunately its just a random event hero. Got lucky! First time in a MP game that my luck scales have actually paid off.

[Adam J]

Sounds like someone has their scouts out and about...

[shard]

Latest reports from the Frontlines brought to You by the
!!!Agarthan News Network!!!

*Reports have filtered in of the Atlantis leadership being deposed, though little is known about the new dude and his/her pretensions for pretenderhood.

**After what seemed to be a lull in the fighting, battle has yet erupted again between the Eagle kings and the Wizards of Tien Chi, and an interesting contrast of doctrines. Will Lightning Blitzkrieg win over Decisive Battle? Stay tuned to find out!

***Army observers witnessing the attempted storming of Yomi's castle report that Helheim's troops had routed after a brilliant defensive show by the garrison defenders - yet the castle still ended up lost to the attackers.(I saw it and I don't really believe it - perhaps either of those involved care to shed some light on the matter??)

****And in other news, the Lord of Niefelhelm had this to say about his fine looking Huntress:
I wish it were a summon. I'd be summoning the crap out of her. Every. Turn.


Brought to you by ANN
*** ANN - Always underfoot ***

[mattyburn7]

First off I must say that Agartha has much better news than Helheim's state run 24 hour per day only station running - "Our dear great leader and pretender god Bulldog".

It looks like someone flopped the score charts between Tien and Caelum...at least on provinces.

Regarding the battle. It was a remarkable thing. Here is the official report. The General in charge after surveying the field remarked. "We are in Deep ****". This fort is a far cry harded to capture than the last one. At that point remembering the movie Braveheart he ordered the nobles to take the cavalary and pretend they were retreating (hence the retreat message). He met the enemy in the field and at the crucial moment the cavalry came storming back to take the field.

In reality I have no clue what happened. The best I can come up with is that a lonely huskarl got separated and was hiding behind a rock. After the battle while the Enchantress, archers, remaining bears and fire drakes got drunk on wine in the celebration he slipped into camp and slaughtered them all.

In any event a win is a win :).

[Adam J]

Well, I think its pretty clear... lightning Blitzkrieg is kicking decisive battle's butt. This is what France must have felt like in WWII.

[Aderion]

As long a you do not field/invent something to reliably stop my raiding eagle kings all is fine for me... I am already curious how this will end. While I can attack you everywhere, I also cannot hold the conquered provinces and I also cannot really fight your armies.

In fact, I did not want to fight you (yet), but since you started attacking me again by taking mictlans capital, I thought I should try out raiding with my eagle kings a bit. Actually, it was more out of desparation and I thought this way I can at least annoy you some... But as you experienced first hand, it turned out really well for me (at least until now).

[Adam J]

Yeah, I suspected taking Mictlan's capital would be stirring the hornets nest... and the timing couldn't have been worse with my Atlantis' management issues freeing you up to deal with me a bit more unilaterally. But Mictlan was sitting right there ripe for the pickings! Impulse control is unfortunately a weak spot for me. Sadly, I think my human troops aren't particularly well equipped for dealing with your eagle kings- still I've got a bit of research in the pipeline, so we'll see how this goes.

[Adam J]

Yomi is MIA... probably because he's down to one fort. While I can't blame him for wanting to stop at this point we all are waiting on him for our turns to post. Does anyone know someone who can turn him AI for us?

[mattyburn7]

If everyone is ok I can send it to my alternate email account? I can take control and switch to AI. I don't think its going to give me any information that will be worth anything since I"m already neighboring it.

I'll wait for green light before I switch.

[Calahan]

If you send in two .2h files for two (or more) different nations during the same turn, then you run the risk of getting a CD violation during hosting which results in one (or both) nations who used the same key being given a forced stale. Doesn't always happen, but you need to know the exact requirements to prevent it kicking in. (and the consequences of getting them wrong just isn't worth it)

So whenever a nation needs to be turned AI in a llamaserver game, it's best to post a thread or ask on IRC for a volunteer to do the AI turning. In this case though there's no need to look, as I'll do it since I'm passing. (mattburn7. I assume you are the admin, as such I'm sending you a PM with my email once I finish this).

Edit - PM sent. please let me know if you didn't get it (I got a forum time out error my end while sending, so not sure it got through to you as I didn't save the msg)

Edit 2 - Problem has been solved by Yomi's death. Move on.

[Adam J]

Just looked at the new turn file- it appears the issue is moot. Yomi is deceased.

[Calahan]

Haha, that's certainly the easiest way of dealing with the problem :) Enjoy your game guys and gals. Nothing to see here.

[Adam J]

Thanks for your offer for help Calahan. Looks like the server still wants a 2h file from Yomi irregardless of his death... I think there's a one turn lag there. Rather then bothering with the whole AI issue I can force hosting once all the other turns are in if no one has a problem with that.

[Calahan]

Yeah, the llamaserver needs to be sent a final .2h file once a nation is defeated.(I can still do this if it helps. mattyburn has my email).

Needing to send a final .2h file isn't a bad thing actually, as it allows the defeated player a chance to send out a final message, or to empty out his gem/item vault to other players. As these orders will still be carried out even though the nation is technically dead (as you would probably not want to send out final messages or goodie baskets until you were officially dead)

[samoht]

Well I just did my first ever stale turn. That sucks. I forgot that the time my email tells me doesn't account for daylight savings, so I missed getting home from work and sending in the turn by an hour. Oh well, it happens I guess!

[Adam J]

Ugh, sorry to hear that samoht. Anytime you need an extension just notify me and mattyburn and one of us will do so. Hopefully nothing too painful happened as a result.

[samoht]

Its alright. If I thought I needed an extension I would have let you known :p but this was just simple human error on my part. It won't happen again!

[Adam J]

Woo hoo... stopped Caelum's arena champion with a measily level 1 fire mage casting an unscripted blindness spell (a summoned earth elemental gets the assist but would have almost certainly been demolished otherwise). Too bad the mage didn't get to follow his dream of devoting himself to a quiet life crafting lightless lanterns and picking up easy women at the local tavern with tales of his heroism... a eagle king promptly flattened him.

By the way, in case anyone didn't know (and I didn't), the arena champion's gear is pretty epic. It's a helmet which gives sick protection, quickness and attacks at the same time. I'm kind of confused how the seraph got it the champion's gear, I thought it was cursed and I though Caelum sent a tempest lord to the arena.

[Aderion]

Hi everyone,

I won't probably be able to play my next turn in time, thus I would like to request an 12h extension.

Regarding the arena gear, there was some battle in which my tempest lord died and the seraph came by and looted the body...

[Adam J]

Thanks for the forewarning, extension granted

[mattyburn7]

Ya just beat me to the punch!

[Adam J]

Balasker stalled last turn and might be Mia. I'm gonna extend 12 hrs for now...

[Adam J]

Looks like he got this turn in- crisis averted

[Aderion]

Just to let everyone know, I went AI this turn.

I had a lot of fun in this game and I also learned a lot, thus the game lived up to its name for me...

[mattyburn7]

Thanks for Playing Aderion. Looking forward to seeing you in other games!

[Adam J]

Good game Aderion!

[mattyburn7]

Everyone: I postponed hosting 24 hours.
Cheers

[Adam J]

Works for me- bit of a crazy weekend, just told my parents that they were going to be grandparents.

[mattyburn7]

Well Congratulations!!

Is this their first grandchild?

[shard]

Congratulations on the new addition!

Coincidentally I just told my parents about a future daughter-in-law myself so the more time the merrier...

[Adam J]

Yup

[jotwebe]

Joining with the congratulations, felicitations and general well-wishings.

[shard]

Ooops I did not mean to send in the turn just yet - mind if we turn off quickhost??

[jotwebe]

I can hold sending off my turn until an hour or two before the deadline, if that helps.

[mattyburn7]

I turned it off. I'll be gone most of day tomorrow so post when you have turn in. Either Adam will turn it on or game will just host when time is up.
Cheers

[shard]

Thanks...

Those Zmeys are pretty cool, so many new CBM monsters to play with (anyone know where i can get a list of their unit ids? Cant find some of them on Edi's DB)

[Adam J]

They are great- sadly I had no idea how hard the seal guards hit. I'm bogged down with work and going to delay hosting for 6 hours. Sorry bout that.

[shard]

Hey take your sweet time I am nowhere near done with my turn >>

[mattyburn7]

k. I turned quickhost back on. If you need it back off just let me know.

[Adam J]

Okay, I'm retarded and sent in the turn from this game when I intended to send in the turn from another game... so I turned off quickhost again.

[Adam J]

Quickhost is back on.

[Adam J]

Sheesh Agartha, those seal guards didn't mind their acid bath at all. At least I gained some satisfaction through dismantling that ridiculous ember lord of yours.

[shard]

Hidden in Snow - oh my god.... I need wd access in my next game


Oh and I am out of town this weekend and would like to request 24h extension

[Adam J]

Granted. Hidden in snow is pretty wonderful- its saved my hide in this game. Extension granted.

[Adam J]

Looks like we have a couple stalls in a row from Atlantis... Balasker are you there?

[shard]

Extend the time a bit to we wait/look for a rep?
(also I dont mind getting a bit more sleep tonight...)

[mattyburn7]

Postponed 24 hours.

[Adam J]

Mattyburn- Are we looking for a sub or are we looking for someone to send Atlantis AI? I'm not sure we'll find anyone to pick up Atlantis, they're not doing so hot.

[Anaconda]

If Atlantis is doing bad, I would be happy to send them to the grave with pride! However, if there are some or even any prospects for them I am not your guy because I have too much on my hands with other games. And, I need the interval of 48 at least...

[shard]

Im pretty sure we wont have a problem with 48, its at 36 but we seem to be extending it pretty regularly.

Atlantis isnt dead by any means, they still have 3 forts, half dozen provinces and an intact army according to the score table. I dont border them so I dont have the details but I know that they are under attack by at least 2 neighbours so even with a human player its pretty hopeless..?

[Anaconda]

They are pretty dead, it seems. I am gonna escort them to the grave. What happened to the player? He just gave up?

[Adam J]

We have no idea what happened to him, he simply disappeared. Second time that's happened with Atlantis too, quite mysterious. Thanks for taking over Anaconda, much appreciated. I'll increase the hosting to 48h and bump the current timer by 24 hours to give Anaconda time to get his turn in.

[Anaconda]

Well, my turn was in before I posted. Thank you anyways. Atlantis is quite gone at this point, I would say. She just needs clean warrior burial.

[Anaconda]

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j464/RegimentalFinn/Atlantis%20game%205-2012/VictoryinAtlantis.jpg

Unfortunately the commanders escaped.

[jotwebe]

Some of them didn't. It appears that a commander with a troop water breathing item (manual of waterbreathing, sea kings goblet) will die if unable to retreat to a friendly land province, while those with a ring or a shambler skin will be fine retreating into another water province. I'm not sure if that's only while they're actually leading something or not. So while it sucked to loose those guys, at least we all learned something.

[shard]

Sorry for the short notice but I forgot to forward my turn to my PC here. I can redo the turn but if possible I'd like a 6hr extension.

[mattyburn7]

Sorry. I didn't get to this in time with memorial day.

[shard]

Its ok, with the glaring exception of forgetting to hire any troops or mages, I managed to get most of what I wanted to do done.
On the other hand, Niefel staled...?

[Adam J]

Looks like he did... Samoht are you there?

[Adam J]

Two stalls in a row for Samoht and no response to messages... looks like another MIA. I guess we'll start looking for a sub if he doesn't show up shortly.

[Adam J]

Put in a sub request. I'm putting the timer back 24 hours to give us an opportunity to find a sub and give whoever it is a chance to get up to speed. Thanks to everyone here for hanging in there through all these shenanigans.

[mattyburn7]

Thanks for taking on the burden Adam J. Unfortunately looks like several games are losing some people at the same time.

[Adam J]

Schoelle has graciously offered to sub for Niefelheim. Thanks Schoelle!

[schoelle]

Hi - I am in the game an trying to get familiar with the positions.

I am happy to honor any NAP, so please PM me if there is something agreed (please don't cheat).

Bernd

[shard]

Greetings Schoelle, good luck and welcome to the game!

AdamJ / mattyburn7 - I don't mind taking up some admin duties if needed; though because of my timezone I am probably active only while most of you are asleep or at work.


Jotwebe of Pan -> I hope that backstabbing me despite our NAP3 was worth it. Whatever the justification (yes I sincerely appreciate your talent in roleplay and storytelling in the other AAR game), it shall be remembered.
You also pretty much voided whatever agreement you have had with any other nation.

May the Ground beneath your feet swallow your kingdom whole! :mad:

[jotwebe]

Err... we didn't have a NAP, I'm pretty sure. After we had our first expansion party run-in in Sleepy Woods, we agreed to borders and peace, but not a NAP. If I sign those, they go into the notes file I keep on every nation. Because otherwise it'd be impossible to keep them straight. This did make me rather nervous for long stretches of the game.

Here's what I have from our archived PMs:

<privatemessage><datestamp>2012-03-19 10:39</datestamp><title>Re: A lEArning Experience: border clash at Sleepy Mountains</title><fromuser>shard</fromuser><fromuserid>9560</fromuserid><touser>jotwebe</touser><message>Sounds good to me. I know little about Yomi though and I am not looking begin aggression just yet...

I have no idea where caelum is.... but looking at their province count im sure they have a fair amount of neighbours.


Seems there was a... misunderstanding between our expansion parties in province 43, Sleepy Mountains. The tribes of Pangaea generously allow you to keep it ;)

Anyway, you've got KeithZ's Yomi to your south (my west) - I've sent them a message of peaceful greetings, but they haven't answered anything. Caelum is around somewhere, too - Aderion's asked for a NAP-3 and got it. From his expansions, it looks like he's more or less following the Baalz guide.

Thing is, I know all my neighbors by now, and while I still have a few of the tougher indies to snatch up, it's probably time to look for alliances and targets. With that in mind, would you be interested in an alliance against Yomi?</message></privatemessage>

Re-reading that, I realize that you may have taken the "alliance against Yomi" offer as also containing a NAP. That's not how it was meant, if you had asked for one, I'd probably have accepted, but I think an alliance, without a NAP, just to kill a common neighbour is perfectly reasonable.

Anyway, as I recall it you declined, since you still had plenty of indies. At that point I was considering allying with Yomi instead (with or without NAP) and attacking you, but then Yomi grabbed some provices that would have been nicely defensible and cut me off from further expansion, so I contacted mattyburn7 instead, who had similar experiences with Yomi.

Then of course you remembered my offer and swept in at the end of the Yomi war, snatching up the capital. That's when I started researching blood ;)

So that's my view of things.

[Adam J]

Thanks for the offer Shard, I think we're good on the administrator front for now between me and mattyburn. Might want to revisit the issue if/when me or mattyburn get knocked out.

[shard]

I'm sorry but I will be travelling extensively again from today and for the next few weeks, is it possible to extend the current timer by another 48 hours as well as extend the overall timer by another 12 hours?

If its too much of a drag I don't mind looking for a sub.

[mattyburn7]

Shard: I went ahead and put the delay in. I'm ok with it as long as everyone else is. If you see any issues with it please let me know.
Thanks!

[jotwebe]

I was just looking at the staling data, and it appears Agartha has been staling the last 3 turns. And here I was wondering why the Pale Ones put up so little resistance and waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Maybe shard is busier than anticipated? Anyway I think we should probably go hold until we hear from shard and if we don't look for a sub.

Wish I had realized sooner, Agartha's position was a lot better three turns ago.

[Adam J]

Sounds good... I was wondering what he was waiting for with his armies poised at my gates. I'll push the timer back 24hrs for now to see if we hear from him

[Adam J]

So Shard appears to still be absent. Any suggestions on what we should do? Should we start the sub hunt... again?

[jotwebe]

I think so.

One solution would be to give Agartha to Balaskar and let Atlantis go AI: it's not that much of a factor now, but Agartha still could be. On the other hand, he may want to prefer to guide Atlantis to its end. Anyway, I think our two subbers should have first call, if they want to switch.

I know a couple of people who play dom3 but haven't done any MP, maybe they'll be interested in having a romp with late game stuff. And we should do the standard asking for subs, too.

EDIT: In fact, I'll just go ahead and put up a post with screenies of the graphs.

[jotwebe]

And here (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=48909) it is. I put up some screenies and stuff so people can get an impression of where the game stands. If you or any of you other guys are also soliciting players, you may want to point them there.

[Adam J]

I don't think switching positions is really appropriate as it gives the sub information that they shouldn't be privy to. Also, sadly, Jotwebe, you are one sub behind, Anaconda is running Atlantis these days, not Balasker. Anyways, why no longer dominant, Agartha is very strong- they should be picked up fairly easily. I'm sorry for the delay folks, I'll put in another 24 hr delay while we hunt down a sub.

[jotwebe]

I don't think switching positions is really appropriate as it gives the sub information that they shouldn't be privy to.

Well it was a thought. Given that Atlantis at least isn't in direct conflict with Agartha, I wouldn't see it as a major problem. More so with Niefel, though.

Also, sadly, Jotwebe, you are one sub behind, Anaconda is running Atlantis these days, not Balasker.

Whoa, the door is revolving down there. Thanks, Anaconda, for helping us out.

Anyways, why no longer dominant, Agartha is very strong- they should be picked up fairly easily.

Well, their homeland is full of Maenads. But yeah, they still have their globals, plenty of summoned stuff, and top research. I can see how it would have been hugely demotivating to end up where they are from where they were five turns ago, but for someone jumping in it'll be like a pretty cool scenario, "you've lost your homeland, can you take it back, and also deal with this guy you're invading" style.

[mattyburn7]

Adam and Jotwebe. Thanks for handling all this!

[Adam J]

Jotwebe- thanks alot for posting the sub request!

[Adam J]

Any luck on the sub request? What are we doing?

[Anaconda]

Somebody mentioned me. I am not interested in a longer subbing, unfortunately. Only in short periods with fierce melee in sight.

[jotwebe]

Well nobody seems to be biting. My non-MP friends are too busy, I'm afraid, and looks like our sub request is going unanswered.

Anaconda, I think you got mentioned as the current Atlantis player?

So I guess with nobody lining up to take the pale fatties, it'll have to be leaving them staling or put them on AI. I've heard it said that AI is actually worse than staling, but I find that difficult to imagine.

We could maybe put it to a vote? Don't much care myself, it'd be a walkover either way.

[Adam J]

Got me as to the best solution, but I can assure you he has some pretty nasty armies still, they're sitting in previously t'ien c'hi lands.

[Adam J]

So I'm putting the game on pause until we figure out whether to AI Agartha or keep looking for a sub. What's everyone's decision on this?

[mattyburn7]

I still think a sub would be best if possible. Let me try someone who might be interested.

[jotwebe]

I don't mind a pause to continue the hunt for the Red October ;) a bit.

[mattyburn7]

The guy I tried wasn't interested. He's already in a bunch of games and currently doing the sub thing elsewhere. I'll bump your post again.

[mattyburn7]

Everyone. I'm on vacation from 6/22 to 7/1. I'm going to try my best to get turns in on time. I may delay a bit or may stale. Just a heads-up, but don't worry. I'm not abandoning :)

[Adam J]

So it appears no sub has appeared. Should we AI Agartha?

[mattyburn7]

I think we'll have to

[Shardphoenix]

Wait. Maybe, I`ll find a sub tomorrow.

[Fantomen]

Hi everyone, I'm taking over Agartha. I haven't looked at the turn yet, so I have no idea whether I can save the cavemen or just give you a better final stand. I'd like to know about all diplomatic relations and wars I'm in. I will not feel obliged to honour any previously made agreements unless informed and agreed on once again. PM me here or mail me at dom3turns(a)yahoo.se

[Fantomen]

Wow, this is a damn mess to be sure, at least the pretender build is somewhat solid. I really don't understand what the plan was, but I'll try and salvage the rabble anyhow.

[Adam J]

You're also about to take my capital if that helps...

[Fantomen]

The seal has opened, the slumbering gods awakened. Tremble in the dark, little children of men, for we hath come to take back what is ours.

[mattyburn7]

Hmmmm...New guy doesn't want to make friends! LOL

[Adam J]

Crap... Missued my turn- Sorry guys I've had some unexpected family issues... I'll try to get my turns in.

[Fantomen]

Hmmmm...New guy doesn't want to make friends! LOL

You mean since everyone was so friendly and peaceful before? :smirk:

[jotwebe]

The seal has opened, the slumbering gods awakened. Tremble in the dark, little children of men, for we hath come to take back what is ours.

Hah! We have torn down the gates of the underworld, and now revelers and maenads throng through the corridors of Agartha, defiling your holy places.

It is only a matter of time before our sacrifices will bring back the sun, reborn in blood.

[schoelle]

Somehow this game is a mess - that is fun ...

[Anaconda]

I turned Atlantis AI now, its over for him. Be prepared, he has some heroes left still.

[Adam J]

I'm probably going to go ai in the next turn or two as well- lost almost all of my cap mages and my cap to boot...

[mattyburn7]

Who Got it? Agartha, Pangaea, or Niefel? This game is a jumbled mess!

[jotwebe]

Agartha. Basically Agartha conquered TC but I conquered most of Agartha. Too bad that with the cave dudes turning off the light, all those provinces don't help me much.

[Adam J]

I went ai guys- Agartha has me dead to rights and nearly all my good mages bought the farm... Good game I had a lot of fun!

[Fantomen]

It's generally more fun if people play it out you know. But sure, I've gone AI too sometimes.

[mattyburn7]

Thanks Adam. Hope to see you down the road. Looks like 4 of us left.

[Adam J]

You're right Fantomen, I'm sorry guys for going AI a bit prematurely. This game was getting a bit frustrating for me with all the dropouts- Agartha's prior god vanished with huge armies parked all over my former territories that I couldn't do much about with my cap under siege by them.

[jotwebe]

Who is the current admin then?

[mattyburn7]

I am..We were co adminning