Demo newbie Q1: Hit and run

[derb]

It is rather aggravating that if you are stationary ships can whiz in from out of range, fire and move away. Isn't there/couldn't there be some form of "opportunity fire" - you fire if a target comes in range during the opposing turn?

[Val]

Closest thing is a PDF system - which will fire as fighters and seekers enter the range. Maybe you can add the PDF ability to a weapon that can target ships so when a ship moves into range it will automatically be shot at!

[mac5732]

I like the idea, but don't know if its moddable, I would ck with SJ, Atrocities, Memphisto or some of the othe modders as to if it can be done with out hard code changes.

just some ideas mac

[PvK]

I don't think it can be modded - but I do think it's on the suggestion list. Opportunity fire was suggested and discussed a long time ago, but seems to have fallen off the table somwhere along the line. I guess MM saw the main problem was that bases and planets were at a disadvantage, and the tweak to handle that was to give their mounts range bonuses. I agree it could be an improvement to add Opp fire, if it was well done, which would require a fair amount of careful design, work, and testing to do well. In some games, Opp fire causes more problems than it solves, because of "baiting" and other issues. E.g., use something that probably won't be hit or hurt or that you don't care about to draw fire by moving into Opp fire range of the enemy, and then move in your ships that you don't want to get hit, etc.

Also, the combat system is clearly an abstraction of the actual situation, since it's 2D and uses alternating turns, squares, ships without meaningful facings, and inertialess movement, none of which are accurate representations of space combat. So within the abstract representation, an immobile ship not always being able to fire back against hit & run could represent more maneuverable ships moving to attack from an angle that the target can't respond from.

Still, done well, I think Opp fire could be an improvement.

PvK

[mac5732]

PVK, your remarks on "Baiting" makes sense, so what if we add a new weapon type instead, to try and eliminate this type of tactic. Create a new weapon similiar in concept to PD's, except if you have them, Only they would be allowed to fire in the Opportunity fire phase not any other weapon other then the normal PDs. This way, your main weapons would still be intact and would take some of the baiting away, as if you close your enemies weapons would still be available because they didn't fire, or something on this order.

just some ideas mac

[PvK]

Yes that could be one approach to reducing bad baiting. A good Opp fire AI routine can go a long way, as can fire doctrine orders.

PvK

[mac5732]

PVK, please bare with me here, If we take the data, txt, etc for the current PD's, give them new name, extend their range, increase their damage, is it moddable to change their current targets from ftrs/msls to ships? Currently if a ftr/msl moves into range of a PD it fires automaticaly at them, (basically oportunity fire)
could you take out ftr/msl in whatever fields that are used and insert ships instead without using hardcode changes? It might not be best or complete but would give a form of oportunity fire

just some ideas mac

[Suicide Junkie]

No. A ship movement dosen't trigger the Point-defense ability. Only fighters and drones trigger checks against enemy PD.

Adding the PD ability to main guns has been tried before.

[mac5732]

SJ, Tks, http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I guess we'll just have to wait and see if a hard code change down the road lets you modders do some more tinkering in this area, tks again SJ http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

just some ideas mac

[Baron Munchausen]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
No. A ship movement dosen't trigger the Point-defense ability. Only fighters and drones trigger checks against enemy PD.

Adding the PD ability to main guns has been tried before.<hr></blockquote>

Every time I move a ship in tactical combat, the PDC are triggered against any seekers or fighters that comeinto range. I think your second statement really includes the first, that the PDC ability doesn't work against ships? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

Well, yeah.
Moving your ships dosen't set off enemy weapons with the point defense ability.
Any of your weapons with PD will fire on units.

The pd was added to main guns, since they could target ships, but the PD ability wasn't triggered.