Proportions Mod: Multiplayer anyone?

[Gorgo]

Last night, I fell in love with the Proportions Mod which I found on the Gold CD. Incredible stuff, it's what I've been searching for.

I would like to either participate in a multiplayer game using this mod or host a game myself, on PBW or simply doing PBEM.

If there's people interested in a multiplayer game, it would be nice to hear from you.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Gorgo

[Arak Koba]

I am very interested in this mod.

But as you already know, I am quite new and my participation in 'Gorgo's Fourth' (Anunikoba) will be all I can muster at the immediate moment.

[Osweld]

I haven't played the mod, or multiplayer... But i've been meaning to give them both a try. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[PvK]

I'd like to do a multi-player Proportions game. It should be best in multi-player, although I have tweaked the AI a bit for the next patch. I'll try to finalize Version 1.4 and upload it to PBW this weekend.

PvK

[PvK]

I made a quick fix Version 1.4 of Proportions, which can be used to upgrade existing games.

There is a problem with Proportions 1.3 running on SE IV Gold 1.6, in that the infantry defense modifiers can cause unintended stalemates in ground combat. These modifiers have been removed in Proportions 1.4, and are the only change, so existing games running 1.3 should be able to switch to 1.4 without causing any problems or balance issues.

I mean to release a Proportions 1.5 soon (this weekend, I hope), which will also change a number of other things, which are really changes to the balance and other aspects of the mod, rather than fixes. It may be possible to upgrade existing games from earlier Versions to 1.5, but it will change some abilities. Hence 1.4, to fix the problem without changing the game balance and abilities of some things.

Proportions 1.4 is available at PBW HERE (http://seiv.pbw.cc/Download/filelib/327/Proportions1.4.zip).

PvK

[dogscoff]

Count me in. I've been playing around with proportions the Last few days and it's great! As well as the obvious economic changes, I was impressed by the "open" galaxy layout and the new tech tree.

PBEM would suit me best but I'm sure I can be flexible. I guess we'd want to do a quick blitz on TCP to run through the early, short turns.

>400 years to build a cultural centre! Better start building some more starliners...

[Gorgo]

Dogscoff,
was just laughing my *** off when I read about your interests. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Why would you prefer PBEM over PBW? I'd rather use PBW, but I'm open to other solutions.

PvK, being the creator of this crazy mod, would you like to host the game as soon as we have enough players? I'm already hosting three games, but if noone else wants, I'd do it.

[PvK]

I can be the host/game master, if we don't mind not using TCP/IP to start. All of my computers are behind hardware NAT firewalls, preventing TCP/IP SE4 connections.

If we want to get started quickly, though, we could all try to find a time when we can all play at the same time via PBW. In such cases, PBW is nearly as fast as TCP/IP, anyway.

PvK

[Gorgo]

I'm on holiday from March 21st to 30th, but if we can start before that, it's cool with me. We might live in very different parts of the world, so it could get hard to find a date to quickstart. Personally, I'm from Germany, so that makes about 6 to 8 hours difference to the US I think.
Geoschmo has written that it'll take a few weeks to implement the mods on PBW, but we could start with PBEM and switch later.

Gorgo

[dogscoff]

I only suggested PBEM because I intend to take my turns offline (on my laptop while I commute) - or doesn't that matter on PBW? I don't know. Maybe I should just go and buy that IR mobile phone I can't afford=-)

I'm not too bothered about the TCP/IP either if timezones or firewalls make it impossible. I'm a patient person and don't mind at all if it takes a few weeks for the game to warm up.

To be honest I don't really care what method / combination of methods we use, I can be flexible. A slow pace suits me better because I don't have that much free time, but I should be able to make time for occasional "blitzing" if necessary.

BTW Gorgo - the really funny (sad?) thing is, it's all true.

What exactly is involved in hosting a PBEM? Just collecting the files, turn processing and then distributing them again? I could probably do it.

So... how many players do we want? How many have we already got? Any AIs or neutrals? Do we start ASAP or wait for proportions 1.5?

[Gorgo]

Hmm, I guess we've already got 4 people to play, that is PvK, Dogscoff, Osweld and myself. If 4 is enough for all of you, let's talk about settings:

I think PvK should know best which settings would be appropriate for his mod and should make some suggestions here. In order to make our .emp files, is 3.000 racial points okay?

(sorry my previous remark, Dogscoff, it was careless)

Gorgo

[Osweld]

4 is enough for me, but the more the merrier. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The only real prefence I have is that it's not 5000 racial points (3000 is OK), and a quadrant which isn't just a web of warp points. (I just checked out the mod, and the ancient bi-polar or sparse edge quandrant types would be nice.) But I guess I can live with any quadrant type, really.

[Gorgo]

Yeah, I like the new quadrant types, they're looking awesome.

[Arak Koba]

If this game is going to start Sunday or later, I could play too. Seems my schedule won't be as constraining as I first thought.

[Gorgo]

This is cool, so we're already five people.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[geoschmo]

I'll try to get the proportions mod setup on PBW over the weekend. I'll post something here when I get it done.

Geoschmo

[PvK]

Yes, let's take as many players as want to join, though our current five is fine, so we can start as soon as we're all set up. I would suggest we not include any AI empires, because it would create a huge opportunity to try to capture their homeworld. Unless we want a "King of the Hill" type scenario. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I would like to try to use the 1.5 Version, which I'll try to have ready and send to geoschmo (and post here) by Friday night or Saturday day. I want to take another look at the racial attribute point costs, to double-check the balance, so hold off on tweaking your planned empire abilities.

Dogscoff, PBW is mainly an automated PBEM host - it just makes PBEM faster and easier. PBW will email you the turn files (and offer them on the web) automatically as soon as everyone has submitted their turns. You don't need to be continuously connected, but if every player happens to be playing at the same time, it can go about as quickly as TCP/IP or hotseat can. Hosting is just a matter of setting up the game and filling in web forms on PBW, but I'll be happy to do it.

PvK

[Gorgo]

Suggestions for settings?

[PvK]

So far I'm thinking the settings will be as follows. I'm happy to change things to suit players' tastes, so let me know. I've included the requests so far.

Hosted on PBW.
Turn duration: 48 hours or as soon as everyone has their turn in.
Proportions mod Version 1.5.

Quadrant:
Large Ancient Bi-Polar with all warp points connected, all player planets the same size.

Event frequency: medium
Max event severity: high

Tech cost: medium
All tech areas allowed.

Starting resources: Medium
Home Planet Value: Average
Number of homeworlds: 1

"Evenly" distributed

Player can only view own score

New player tech level: low

Racial points: 3000

No AI empires or neutrals

AI Difficulty high and computer bonus high, in case a rebel faction appears.

No set victory conditions

Max ships and units in space: 5000 each (pity we don't all have Gold 1.64 yet... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

No cheat codes.

Gifts and tributes ok.

No technology gifts (send a gift ship if you need to).

Surrender not allowed (subjugation ok).

Intel projects ok.

Ruins will exist. Note that most of them will be red herrings.

No strict limits on colonization.

No saving map during game.

Simultaneous movement.

[Gorgo]

That's fine with me.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

What happens in Gold 1.64? Larger numbers of ships and units allowed?

[PvK]

Ya, the limits on both can be turned up to 20,000. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Oh BTW, if you do set up a game using the Proportions warp-point-rich system types, I recommend trying turning off the "all systems connected" setting, because you still get all systems connected, but some interesting configurations.

PvK

[Osweld]

Sounds good to me, but we might want to play in a smaller quandrant unless we get some more people. Large might be a bit big for only 5 people.


Oh, and I assume it's infinite resources? (although finite is ok with me, too)

[Gorgo]

Evil PvK,
you doubled the gravitational force of black holes!

You are mean.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Gorgo]

Now I realize why 5.000 units is not much for this mod. A few turns building soldiers (my homeworld can build 237 per turn, and I'm already getting close to 1.000 units.

[Phoenix-D]

That's only for units in SPACE, IIRC is doesn't apply to units in cargo- weapons platforms, troops, stored sats/drones/fighters.

Phoenix-D

[Gorgo]

Thanks, I forgot about that.

[PsychoTechFreak]

Count me in, if you want. I have not tried proportions mod so far, sorry PvK , so many great things on the CD, so much to do, but I will take a look into it before you start the game. From what I have read so far, I guess this will become a cool challenge.

[Gorgo]

Welcome in the game! Now we're six.
Looks like you're from Germany too...

Gorgo

[PvK]

Yes, limit is on number of units in space. Troops are unlimited, even on transports. Massive numbers of ships or units in space aren't necessarily a particular feature of Proportions, as far as I know. I just think the higher the theoretical limit, the better. I know it's pretty easy to hit 1,000 units in space even in a small normal game.

There are two kinds of black holes in Proportions - one is stronger than the other. The other one is like before. But ya, I try to introduce some evil from time to time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Infinite resources, yes.

We can do a smaller quadrant - that's probably a good idea for increased interaction. Maybe Small, or Medium if we get 8 players.

PvK

[PsychoTechFreak]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gorgo:

Looks like you're from Germany too...

Gorgo<hr></blockquote>

Yep, [Space Vikings:] "Beerplanets are the best !"

[dogscoff]

Settings look good to me.

Gorgo - I'm not even sure what you're apologising for, so don't worry about offending me. Even if you did say something offensive, I'm pretty hard to upset.

So we've got:

Arak Koba (Sol III - (Can you be more specific?))
Dogscoff (UK)
Gorgo (Germany)
Osweld (?)
PsychoTechFreak (Germany)
PVK (?)

[Gorgo]

So if Geoschmo is able to install the mod on PBW this weekend, we could be starting in the next days.

[dogscoff]

Woohoo! My first multiplayer since July and my first ever PBW... actually I'd better regster for PBW hadn't I?

[PsychoTechFreak]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by dogscoff:
Woohoo! My first multiplayer since July and my first ever PBW... actually I'd better regster for PBW hadn't I?<hr></blockquote>

Yes indeed, Chief Dogscoffson, but it is just a matter of seconds. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

For me it is a "first time" also ...

[ 15 March 2002: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]</p>

[PsychoTechFreak]

PvK, check PM, pleeeaaasee.

[PvK]

Got it, thanks very much. PTF caught a bug with electronic warfare - I had put the efficiency variants in different families so "show latest" would offer the best of different trade-offs, but this allowed human players to cheat by stacking different varieties. I fixed it for the upcoming release, but now players will have to wade through lots of choices to see all the variants at high tech levels. Whether to-hit mods stack seems to be determined by component family number, which is also what determines which components get filtered by "Show latest only".

PvK

[Krsqk]

If there's still room, I'd be glad to join in. This would be my first game against non-AI, and I'd enjoy competing against some sentient beings.

[Gorgo]

Welcome, Krsqk!

[Fyron]

I'd like to play.

[PsychoTechFreak]

Wow, the gameplay is... different, interesting, I really begin to like the idea. It takes quite a few years to spread your empire. How many (real) years do we want to play ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

PvK, if you talk about Large Quadrant, what will be our settings for max. number of systems ? 255 ?

If a home system is affected by a random event (medium-high, really?) the resulting trouble could be a quick end for this race, or what do you think ?

[PvK]

We were saying we'd do a small quadrant, or medium if we get to eight players ( I think we have seven now ). In Proportions, size has far less effect on the amount of resources and research available, but you have enough to start building and maintaining a fleet from the beginning, just from a homeworld. However, in the interest of getting players interacting sooner, a small or medium quadrant probably makes sense.

The rate of expansion and development, and the number of production decisions per turn, is much much lower in Proportions, because you can hardly ever build an entire facility in one turn. However you can build small ships and fly them around. :-) Although, in 1.5 there are even more marked differences involving trade-offs of ship size and engine efficiency. And, with the work I'm finishing up now, troops may become actually important and useful.

As for events, that's why I suggested we didn't do catastrophic, because they really can be catastrophic.

High still includes rebellions, terrible plagues, and warp point closure, but I think the only total wipe-out one would be rebellion on a homeworld &lt;g&gt;. Although, even that, the player might be able to recover from via re-capture - it'd be interesting to see.

I actually really like how major events can cause the need for major reaction in Proportions (exodus via a swarm of starliners, for instance), although some of the catastrophic ones could really plough someone's game, so that's why I suggested High.

PvK

[PsychoTechFreak]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PvK:
We were saying we'd do a small quadrant, or medium if we get to eight players ( I think we have seven now ).

<hr></blockquote>

Based on 100 max. or 255 ?

And, as for the major-looking changes in ver 1.5, could we get two or three days to become familiar with it before we start ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

I agree with the events setup, but it could be that if someone with a real bad luck, -666 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif , looses his homeworld due to a rebellion, maybe even cannot afford a fleet to re-capture it any more.

[Gorgo]

Now we're eight players:

Arak Koba
Dogscoff
Gorgo
Osweld
PsychoTechFreak
PVK
Krsq
Imperator Fryon,

so we could use a medium qudrant.

[PvK]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
Based on 100 max. or 255 ?

And, as for the major-looking changes in ver 1.5, could we get two or three days to become familiar with it before we start ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

I agree with the events setup, but it could be that if someone with a real bad luck, -666 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif , looses his homeworld due to a rebellion, maybe even cannot afford a fleet to re-capture it any more.<hr></blockquote>

Based on 100 max systems.

Yes, I will be posting 1.5 today, it'll may SJ a day or so to get it on PBW, one of our players needed to wait till after Sunday, we need to choose shipsets without conflicts, etc., so you should get a few days to pre-learn, if you want to.

I guess I'm evil, but I'll be amused if someone's homeworld rebels. If they took Cursed for -666, maybe they'll learn some respect for omens.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Or, as gamemaster, I could let them take over the rebelled homeworld, and maybe assign a new player to their original empire &lt;g&gt;. Sounds kinda fun, actually.

PvK

[Osweld]

Can't wait. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif


Might aswell get the shipsets and stuff out of the way now. I plan on using the "seorfleet" shipset.

By the way, will altering the "default" files (strategies, formations, empire titles, ect...) cause any problems in multiplayer?

[PvK]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Osweld:
By the way, will altering the "default" files (strategies, formations, empire titles, ect...) cause any problems in multiplayer?<hr></blockquote>

Have to answer on a case-by-case basis:

1. Strategies. I don't know for sure - I think it might confuse the game if a player has altered their strategy files and expects them to work as they are defined on his computer. The worst this would do, though, is have it so your ships won't really follow the orders you think you are giving them. So, unless someone knows this causes no problems, I would say you should start with the default strategies, and then alter them during play.
OTOH, if you gave the server the same AI strategy file as you are playing with, it should work, but the server will be on PBW, so probably not.

2. Formations. These are per game, so you should have the same ones the game is using, or you will be giving orders that may get mixed up by the host.

3. Empire titles and ship names files. These you can mess with as much as you like on the player side, and the host computer won't care, since it deals in actual names, and those files are just pick lists for players. Only exception is if you use your design minister - it will use the names file on the host computer.

PvK

[PvK]

Ok, I think 1.5 is ready, and I'm about to post the readme it on a new thread, and the file on PBW.

PvK

[Fyron]

Altering formations.txt will definitely cause problems. Altering strategies.txt shouldn't cause too much of a problem, because you can alter your empire's strategies within the game. Emporertitle.txt, empirenames.txt, and those like them are only accessed when games are created, so having modified ones on your computer will not cause a problem.

I plan on using the Vorlon Empire ship set.

Edit:
Hmm... seems as if PvK responded at the same time I did. Oh well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ 17 March 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]</p>

[PsychoTechFreak]

I have already read the FAQ section of PBW, but I still have two semi-newbie questions about shipset and AI.

1. PvK, in your mod there are some altered ship classes, isn't there any need to upload some special shipsets for this Mod ?

2. In the rare case, I would miss a turn, the AI takes over my action. I guess it takes the strategies out of the downloaded shipset, right ? Do you recommend to take one of the AI files out of the Proportions Mod ?

[Fyron]

You can make the AI not do anything if you miss a turn. Inside SEIV, go into the empire options window and select Ministers. Scroll all the way to the bottom and select the option about the AI not making any changes in a simultaneous move game.

[PvK]

PTF, SE4 Gold has a neat feature that allows modders to specify two pictures per ship class: a preferred and a second choice. If the preferred isn't found, the second choice will be used, and the second choice is one found in the default set, and looks fine IMO. As of Proportions 1.5, all new ship classes first look for a picture with a name as defined in the SE4 Image Neo-Standard. See http://www.sandman43.fsnet.co.uk/neostand.htm for lists of ship sets that include the extra ships.

As for when the AI takes over, Fyron has the best answer, which is turn turn all (or almost all) of the ministers off in your empire settings, so your existing orders will be followed, and the AI won't go rampaging around like the nut it generally is. If you had to pick an AI file to use, though, I would use the Proportions Amon'krie one, as it is the most tailored to the mod. This would mean you would need to make a shipset with the AI files you want in it, and upload it to PBW so the server can use those files. I'm not 100% sure PBW will even do that courtesy, though - it might not bother to load custom AI files from a player's ship set - I dunno.

PvK

[PsychoTechFreak]

Thanks. The Neostandard is not yet downloadable, but I think the defaults are sufficient.

But I would like to suggest to wait a few days more before we start, because your changes in ver 1.5 make up a completely different game as in 1.42, I would like to become familiar with the changes. At the moment I have got even problems to setup a good race. And I guess there are still some wrinkles to plain, or at least some features would be good to know. For example, you changed the solar sails to an engine-like behaviour without using supplies, but have you noticed that you need at least one little supply niche to have some supplies available ? Otherwise, if you setup a ship just with solar sails, your ship will just get one turn (per month).

EDIT: All right, OTOH I think it would be interesting to learn things by doing and I guess this PBW proportions game would not be the Last one ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ 17 March 2002: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]</p>

[PvK]

It will be another day or two before we will start, at least.

Do notice that if you are planning to design a race with maintenance reduction, that the scale now works differently. It's now actually what it says it is, proportional rather than additive. That is, in unmodded SE4 or Proportions 1.4.2 or less, 25% is the base, and buying 10% maintenance reduction will give you a 15% maintenance cost compared to ship cost. In Proportions 1.5, 26% is the base, and buying 10% maintenance reduction will cost far less and have less effect, giving you 26% x 90/100 = 23.4% maintenace costs. (It can be raised to higher levels. 50% will give you 13% base costs etc.)

The SE4 Image Neo-Standard isn't a ship set you would download - it's a standard for other mods and shipsets to use, so that they are compatible. It says what file names to use for what sorts of new ship types. So, if you use a ship set made for this standard, its special images like Scout, Infantry, Heavy Base Ship, etc., will get used in Proportions 1.5. See http://www.sandman43.fsnet.co.uk/neostandlist.htm for a partial list of ship sets that have these.

True about solar sails - though they work better than trying to make a sail-only ship in unmodded. Just put something with supplies on your sail ship and it'll fly. I'll adjust this for 1.6.

PvK

[PsychoTechFreak]

I like the sailing through the complete quadrant idea, and a 5kT supply niche is acceptable for that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Maintenance: How do the cultural modifiers kick in ? If I would take merchants (5%), will this reduce the absolute maintenance ? I have tried to check it out, but it seems to me that it is just added to the characteristic value (if this one is at 150, you get 155, but not sure about it). And we still have got the 5% minimum Maintenance, hardcoded, right ?

I still don't get the Neo-standard stuff, poor brain is completely in a mist, sorry this is a day of 18 hours testing Proportions mod... You stated:

"So, if you use a ship set made for this standard, its special images like Scout, Infantry, Heavy Base Ship, etc., will get used in Proportions 1.5"

Confusion completed: What ship sets can I use for proportions 1.5 ? In the readme files to the published shipsets, I cannot remember any terms like "this shipset is Neo-standard compatible".

Edit: Don't mind about my Last question(s), I will do my homework and read the SJ Thread about the image request idea, again.

[ 17 March 2002: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]</p>

[Phoenix-D]

"Do notice that if you are planning to design a race with maintenance reduction, that the scale now works differently. It's now actually what it says it is, proportional rather than additive."

How'd you do that?

Phoenix-D

[PvK]

The cultural maintenance mods are added to the characteristic setting. You can buy up to 90%, and merchants would make that 95%. No way around the hard-coded 5% minimum, and actually you need to use a culture to get higher than 90%. I guess I should raise the limit on the setting to +95%.

Any ship set that works with standard will work with Proportions. Shipsets that conform to the neo-standard (there are several) will also get you distinct pictures for the new ship classes. E.g., an empire using the Vandron ship set will have distinct pictures for their scouts and escorts, while a standard Toltayan empire will have escorts and scouts that use the same graphic.

PvK

[PsychoTechFreak]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PvK:
The cultural maintenance mods are added to the characteristic setting. You can buy up to 90%, and merchants would make that 95%. No way around the hard-coded 5% minimum, and actually you need to use a culture to get higher than 90%. I guess I should raise the limit on the setting to +95%.

PvK<hr></blockquote>

Wait a minute... In this case, the cultural modifiers should be tweaked, regarding the new maintenance model. My favorite one, e.g. is Engineers, just because of the 2% maintenance reduction, but they are pretty much worthless now, should be 7 or 8 in this case, merchants now 20...

[PvK]

Ok... ok... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Let's see... 2 of 25 is 8%, so ya. I'll adjust those.

PvK

[dogscoff]

I will be using my viking shipset. (It's on the gold CD, within the TDM modpack zip.)

I may soon have an updated Version with more images than there are on the CD. I really ought to update my website. I should do the neo-standard page while I'm there as well, since it's badly out of date and seems to be causing confusion. Just to clear up a few points:

1- The neo-standard isn't something you can download, despite the "download" page on the site. Like I say, it's out of date=-(

2- The neo-standard isn't necessary for proportions or any other mod. All mods and shipsets will work just fine without it.The neo-standard should not be a source of worry (unless you happen to be responsible for the website=-) Just think of the neostandard as a "bonus" which is unlocked if you use certain mods and certain shipsets together.

3- The neostandard has nothing to do with S_J's imagemod, although the philosophy behind them is similar.

[Gorgo]

I'm using the Terrans. Seems as if no Gold mods are supported yet by PBW, so we'll have to wait until that will have been set up.

Not too bad for me, as I'm on holidy from Thursday till April 30th, and I'm begging you all to wait for me, as it's really a big deal for me to play in this game!

Gorgo

[PsychoTechFreak]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gorgo:
Not too bad for me, as I'm on holidy from Thursday till April 30th, and I'm begging you all to wait for me, as it's really a big deal for me to play in this game!

Gorgo<hr></blockquote>

April 30th ! You seem to be a teacher or a student, or do you think of March 30th ?

Anyway, I think it would be good to wait at least one week or 2 weeks in this case, because there are still some things to learn about Proportions 1.5, maybe a good idea to get some time for bugfixes and such...

[Gorgo]

Sorry! I meant March 30th.

[Rollo]

Hey, if you don't start until after March 30th, count me in as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

Rollo

[dogscoff]

How about this: Rollo, you play as the Space Vikings, and I will change the viking ship colours a little and make a new flag and race portrait, something like this (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1016456937.bmp) (quick sketch in paint) and I can play as (fanfare)... the Space Valkyries!

I'm gonna enjoy this...

[Rollo]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by dogscoff:
How about this: Rollo, you play as the Space Vikings, and I will change the viking ship colours a little and make a new flag and race portrait, something like this (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1016456937.bmp) (quick sketch in paint) and I can play as (fanfare)... the Space Valkyries!

I'm gonna enjoy this...<hr></blockquote>

LOL http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Excellent idea !

[Rollo]

Hehe, do you have a name for the Empress of the Valkyries? How about Helga Dogscoffdjottir. I am going to enjoy this, too...

[Growltigga]

Dogscoff, I like it, you just need to do some pictures - use the race portrait for the space viking, ditch the beard and paint in some fishnets - for the spaceships, just stick an earring off any suitable part of each vessel or change the colour scheme to an interesting natural calico or oatmeal with a lemon dew blush

Sorted
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[dogscoff]

Growltigga - I had planned to just paint breats onto the front of the viking ships, but it didn't look quite as good as I had imagined. I might try again though.

Rollo: Hadn't thought too much about names yet but you're right, she just has to be Helga.

Anyone know of any god freeware software that will let me apply a colour change to a whole set of images rather than having to load each one, alter it, save it...

[Growltigga]

Well, Dogscoff, I think half of your problem is finding a picture of the right type of breasts to stick on the front of your ships!!
have you got rid of that spare copy of gold yet?
yours hopefully
GT

[dogscoff]

Sorry GT, it went to my brother. It is the final stage in my plan to assimilate him into the SE4 collective=-)

[Growltigga]

Oh well, it went for a worthy cause then!

The opportunist in me had to ask

[PvK]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gorgo:
I'm using the Terrans. Seems as if no Gold mods are supported yet by PBW, so we'll have to wait until that will have been set up.<hr></blockquote>

Proportions 1.5 is set up on PBW now. I haven't started our game setup yet, though. We could start briefly and then take a break for Gorgo, or just wait for Gorgo to get back before starting. What do the other five players think - any preferences?

I will post another patch before the 30th, but I don't know that it'll have many important changes. The only thing I have so far that would affect early games is the maintenance rate thing, and even that only affects the amount of resources stockpiled in the early game.

PvK

[Gorgo]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PvK:


Proportions 1.5 is set up on PBW now. I haven't started our game setup yet, though. We could start briefly and then take a break for Gorgo, or just wait for Gorgo to get back before starting. What do the other five players think - any preferences?

PvK<hr></blockquote>

PvK, we've already got 9 players:
Arak Koba
Dogscoff
Gorgo
Osweld
PsychoTechFreak
PVK
Krsq
Imperator Fryon
Rollo


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Gorgo]

Oh, and starting before Thursday and then taking a break until I return would be fine with me, if we manage to be that fast. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Osweld]

We might wait untill Gorgo gets back to start, I don't think it's worth while to take a few early turns and then wait a weak and a half before really starting... especially when you might fix up the mod some more in that time (even if it isn't anything major).

[Rollo]

Please don't start before the 30th. Otherwise I won't be able to join.

Rollo

[ 18 March 2002: Message edited by: Rollo ]</p>

[PvK]

Ok, the 30th it is, then. Players can get a preview in single-player and recommend any tweaks in the meantime.

Current players and ship sets:

Arak Koba (?)
Dogscoff (Space Valkyries)
Gorgo (Terrans)
Osweld (seorfleet)
PsychoTechFreak (?)
PvK (something you guys don't use)
Krsq (?)
Imperator Fryon (Vorlons)
Rollo (Space Vikings)

(Oh, and to answer a question from earlier about how I managed to change the maintenance reduction scale, it was via a neat technique suggested by Suicide Junkie, which sets default maintenance level to 100, and then alters all of the vehicle sizes' maintenance reductions to the appropriate scale. This works because of the way that the different Ratings are applied. I.e., the reduction Ratings are subtracted from the base rate, but then that rate is multiplied by the vehicle size's reduction rating [plus 100, div 100, of course]. I tested it and it works spot on.)

PvK

[PsychoTechFreak]

I will be using Women-In-The-Mood... ahem, wait a minute...

No, I change over to Species 8472.

[PsychoTechFreak]

Hey, Rollo, I would rather need you more as a consultant than an opponent ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Welcome, I am looking forward to PBW with you.

[ 18 March 2002: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]</p>

[dogscoff]

Looks like Rollo and I will be fighting over the Viking shipset then.

Actually, I have an idea...

[Phoenix-D]

Thanks. I may have to borrow that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

[Rollo]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
Hey, Rollo, I would rather need you more as a consultant than an opponent ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Welcome, I am looking forward to PBW with you.

[ 18 March 2002: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]<hr></blockquote>

Sure no problem, you can still consult me. All you need to do is sign the standard consultant (aka protectorate) treaty and there you go http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

Rollo

[Rollo]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by dogscoff:
Looks like Rollo and I will be fighting over the Viking shipset then.

Actually, I have an idea...<hr></blockquote>

I can use my old PBW shipset (generic ships, Hagar portrait, Beermug flag) and you can play the Viking set. I'd still like to hear your idea, though...

[PsychoTechFreak]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Rollo:


Sure no problem, you can still consult me. All you need to do is sign the standard consultant (aka protectorate) treaty and there you go http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

Rollo<hr></blockquote>

I can believe that, indeed I can... But I will give you a hard nut to crack instead.

"Beerplanets are the best"

PTF

[Arak Koba]

I have been wanting to use the Addisian Empire shipset from Version 1.49. I don't know if it has been updated yet at PBW.

And I am in the USA, EST

[geoschmo]

PvK,

Do you have your mod finalized how you want it or are you still tweaking? I would prefer to only have to put it on there once, so I will hold off if you know you are going to add stuff in the next week.

Geoschmo

[PvK]

Geo, I think you already put 1.5 up. I am planning to release a 1.5.2 shortly, and then yet another Version before we start the game on the 30th of this month. So, it'd be nice if you could replace 1.5 with that Version, when it's ready, on or about the 30th.

PvK

[dogscoff]

The Valkyries are coming along nicely, but I'm really not looking forward to re-colouring all those images individually.

Does anyone know of any software to make the job easier?


EDIT: Never mind, I found one. It's called Eyebatch, and 30 days' free trial should be more than enough.

[ 21 March 2002: Message edited by: dogscoff ]</p>

[geoschmo]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PvK:
Geo, I think you already put 1.5 up<hr></blockquote>Errr? Yes. You are correct. Time to check my medication....

[Krsqk]

Due to unplanned company on the 29th, 30th, and 31st, I won't be able to start until April 1st. The computer's in the room they're sleeping in. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

[PvK]

Ok. I'll try to post a 1.6 shortly, so people can start sending in their empire files. I won't actually start without anyone who's said they want to play. I'll start as soon as we get everyone's emp files, but won't start automatic turns until someone gets the first turn in, so the first turn probably won't be processed before the 1st, then.


Current players and ship sets:

Arak Koba (Addisian Empire)
Dogscoff (Space Valkyries)
Gorgo (Terrans)
Osweld (seorfleet)
PsychoTechFreak (Species 8472)
PvK (something you guys don't choose)
Krsq (ship set?)
Imperator Fryon (Vorlons)
Rollo (Space Vikings)


<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
Arak wrote, a while ago:

I have been wanting to use the Addisian Empire shipset from Version 1.49. I don't know if it has been updated yet at PBW.<hr></blockquote>

It's easy to upload a new ship set at PBW, with whatever ship set variant you want.


PvK

[dogscoff]

Work on the Space Valkyries is coming along nicely. I should be able to post my shipset and .emp on the 29th (Friday).

Are we starting the game under 1.5.2 or 1.6?

[Arak Koba]

I am actually going to use the revised Addisian shipset. I just uploaded it to PBW along with a revised Taiidan shipset.

These sets are only slightly rearranged, but don't have any .emp or .txt files in them, so there won't be any conflict with Gold.

If you already do have the original Addisian shipset, however, it won't really matter and you shouldn't have to download the revision; you just won't see EXACTLY the same thing as me.

[Cargus10]

Are there still any openings for this game? I'd LOVE to play in a Proportions game, and the AI just isn't a huge challenge - and it doesn't appear to be available on PBW right now. So, if there's still room, sign me up!

[PvK]

Cargus10, yes, please do join in! Let us know what ship set you'll be using. We mean to start about the 30th.


<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by dogscoff:
...
Are we starting the game under 1.5.2 or 1.6?<hr></blockquote>

We'll start with Proportions 1.6, which I hope to release tonight or tomorrow.

By the way, the game will upgrade to the first Gold patch when it is released, and any patches for problems found in 1.6. If there will be a 1.7 (meaning balance is changed or important things added) then we'll take a vote on whether to move the PBW game to it or not.

PvK

[Cargus10]

Great! I'll be using the ConFed shipset (from PBW). I'll look for 1.6 eagerly!

I may have missed this in the long thread, but how many racial points will we have to spend?

[PvK]

3000 points.

[PsychoTechFreak]

PvK, could we reconsider the quadrant size ? This morning I have done a quick and dirty count with ancient race, medium based on 100 comes up with about 40 systems, 26 of them are just eye-candy, black-holes and so forth. If we are 10 or 11 players, this would be very tight in space. Maybe it should not be large, I propose medium based on 250 or similar.

[PvK]

Yes, although I think we'll use the new sidereal type as seen in 1.5.3 (just posted). It has far fewer planetless systems, although there are fewer planets per system. I think we may want to go with Large after all, because we have about ten players now.

PvK

[Phoenix-D]

"26 of them are just eye-candy, black-holes and so forth"

I'm thinking anythink that can kill your ships isn't eye-candy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif And in some mods (this one as well I think) black holes are an early barrier to colonization because your colony ships are just too slow to get past them.

Phoenix-D

[PvK]

Yes. I also modded some more of the new systems to at least do some things. Some of the black holes are not only impassible by low-tech Proportions colony ships, the larger ones are even inescapable by them (they will be pulled inside).

PvK

[PsychoTechFreak]

Yes, yes, all right. I just thought about the 14 colonizable systems for 10 players. If your home system is surrounded by "eye-candy" you are screwed anyway in proportions.

[geoschmo]

Pvk,

Has the game been setup on PBW yet? I looked but didn't see any that say anything about the Proportions mod. If you get the game setup now people will have a few days to join and for the newbies time to get familier with PBW. They can upload their .emp files there instead of sending them to you. Of course if you make significant changes to the mod they may need to send you new .emp files before the game starts.

I would suggest that when people join at the time they put in their empire name, they can put the shipset name in parenthases. This way you will now for those that are using stock shipsets.

You can set it up using the 1.5 that's on there now as the Version. When you have the final game Version ready I can change the game to that.

Also is there room for another player? I read you have 10 now. What's the limit?

Geoschmo

[ 28 March 2002: Message edited by: geoschmo ]</p>

[PvK]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
Yes, yes, all right. I just thought about the 14 colonizable systems for 10 players. If your home system is surrounded by "eye-candy" you are screwed anyway in proportions.<hr></blockquote>

The Sidereal quadrant in 1.5.3 has mostly colonizable systems. I'll do some trial setups and try to get something where we should have at least a 4:1 colonizable-system-to-player ratio, or so.

I'm not sure being surrounded by eye candy would be a huge problem in Proportions. It would be an obstacle to accelerated colony development, but also a protective barrier for your vital home system. If your were surrounded by real navigation hazards (ruptures/holes/etc) then it would be more severe, but again, highly-developed colonies aren't necessarily decisive, and a human can develop tech that can overcome the obstacles.

PvK

[PvK]

geoschmo,

I will set up a PBW entry for the game shortly, so people can set up. We've listed almost everyone's ship sets below, so I think we're conflict-free.

I think we'll take up to 20 players in theory, and I think we have 11 at present - I'd just make the quadrant larger. Alternatively, if players prefer, we could start two games of 5-6 players each. That way each game would go a bit more quickly (and there could be a "fast players" game and a "slow players" game - both 48 hour turns, though, I think), and if anyone drops out of one game, we could probably find a replacement from the other game to take over.

Quick player poll:

1) Do you prefer one game with many players, or two games with fewer players?

2) If there will be two smaller games, would you prefer the "faster players' game," or the "slower players' game"?

3) Would you prefer a game without mine technology?


PvK

[geoschmo]

1) Two games

2) Prefer the faster, but would be willing to go to the slower to help you even the games out. (I'd rather bein a smaller game with slower players, than a larger game with everybody.)

3) No preferance on the mines

I'll probably use my Leonine set that Val was working on for me. Will be my first game with it. I think he finished it. I'll have to check. If he didn't I can thrown some extra images in to fill it up.

Geoschmo

[Krsqk]

1) One game. I've not had the chance to play against several human opponents before. Having said that,

2) I'd opt for the slow game if there are two.

3) Keep the mines. I might not use them, but it wouldn't hurt to have that option available. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

BTW, I plan on using the XiChung ships. Should I combine that with the Amonkrie AI, or will that be necessary? Do I even need to upload a shipset?

[PvK]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Krsqk:
...Should I combine that with the Amonkrie AI, or will that be necessary? Do I even need to upload a shipset?<hr></blockquote>

Short answer: No, for a default set, or one that's already on PBW, you don't need to upload a shipset.

Long answer:

I wouldn't particularly recommend packing in the Amon'krie AI in a shipset uploaded for Proportions, unless you expect the AI to get to do a lot of design, research and construction.

For purposes of ministers or AI takeover... I'm not sure how PBW works. I assume you could include AI files in your shipset that you upload to PBW, and then if your EMP file has "use ministers from style" instead of the default "ministers use selected style", then I would assume PBW would use those AI files from your ship set.

If you don't include AI files, or if you use a "selected minister style" in your EMP setup, then PBW should use the default Proportions AI's, which should be adequate. I don't think they're partcularly worse than the Amon'krie AI - the main improvements in Proportions' Amon'krie set are that it has some more-tweaked ship designs and building and research queues, which mainly help when letting the AI run an empire for a prolonged period.

PvK

[Fyron]

1) One game.

2) If two games are made, then the faster players game.

3) Leave mines in. Removing any basic options of the game is always a bad idea.

[geoschmo]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PvK:
For purposes of ministers or AI takeover... I'm not sure how PBW works. I assume you could include AI files in your shipset that you upload to PBW, and then if your EMP file has "use ministers from style" instead of the default "ministers use selected style", then I would assume PBW would use those AI files from your ship set.<hr></blockquote>

No, actually PBW doesn't use the ai files you upload at all. It uses one of the following...

1) If you use a stock race, or a custom race that has the same name as one of the stock races, and select "use ministers from style", it will use those files from PBW, not the ones you inculde with your shipset. If you select "use selected style" it then chooses the aggressive, defensive, or neutral defaulat AI files, depending on which you select. In both cases it uses the coresponding ai files in the mod you are usign if there are any. If there aren't any in the mod, it uses the stock AI files.

2) If you use a custom shipset that does not have the same name as one of the stock AI races and you select "use selected style", then it works as above.

3) If you use a custom shipset that does not have the same name as one of the stock AI races and you select "Use style from race", then it will randomly select a set of ai files to use for each turn you allow the AI to play for you. Similer to the way it will select a different shipset each turn for players that don't have the custom shipset loaded on their PC's when they play their turns.

The exception to rule 3 is if you are using a mod that has that custom shipset built in on PBW, like the TDM modpack.

Someday we may get to the point on PBW of adding peoples custom AI to PBW. For now though if you want that then your option is to put them in a mod and submit the mod to PBW for inclusion as a Version.

Currently the only thing uploading yoru shipset to PBW does is allow you to select it when you join the game so the other players will have a convientent link to download the shipset so they can see the pictures correctly when they play against you. PBW does not use the files, picture or AI for any kind of processing.

Geoschmo

[Cargus10]

1. One game

2. The slower game, if there are 2 of them, but I'd settle for either.

3. Leave the mines. It's one more strategic decision point.

I'll most likely use the "ConFed" shipset from PBW.

[PsychoTechFreak]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PvK:


I don't think they're partcularly worse than the Amon'krie AI - the main improvements in Proportions' Amon'krie set are that it has some more-tweaked ship designs and building and research queues, which mainly help when letting the AI run an empire for a prolonged period.

PvK<hr></blockquote>

Where did you hide the files ? Even with the complete downloads, I just find the following txt files in the Amonkrie Folder:
DesignCreation
Settings
Construction_Vehicles
Construction_Facilities

[PvK]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:


Where did you hide the files ? Even with the complete downloads, I just find the following txt files in the Amonkrie Folder:
DesignCreation
Settings
Construction_Vehicles
Construction_Facilities<hr></blockquote>

Oh, I guess I was wrong about the Amon having a tweaked research file - many of the others have their own, but it appears the Amon use the default one. The main improvements of theirs are in their design and construction files.

PvK

[dogscoff]

1 - one game

2 - slow game

3 - mines yes.

Valkyrie images are ready for upload. What do I do with them?

[Rollo]

1- one game or two, either way is fine

2- the one dogscoff and PTF are in http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

3- Mines ON

Rollo

[PvK]

Ok, since we'll have at least one game, I've set up a game on PBW titled "PvK's Proportions Game #1". The only change from the setup mentioned several pages below is AI bonus to medium rather than high. (If a homeworld somehow did fall into AI hands, Medium should be plenty of bonus for it.)

Please enlist for the game on PBW. If enough people want to try to start a second smaller game trying to play faster or something, we can add one.

If your shipset is on PBW already (see their list), you will specify it when you send in your EMP file, which you will need to make using Proportions 1.6 (which is almost ready to be posted - you can join the game without posting an EMP file yet, though).

If your shipset is not yet on PBW, or you have a personalized variant of it not on PBW, then upload it to PBW first. This is simple and done from the PBW Mods/Shipsets/Etc section.

Let me know if you have any questions about any of this.

PvK

[PsychoTechFreak]

1) No preference on the number of games

2) Fast

3) Mines on. I would rather get some proportions-like restrictions to intelligence projects done, e.g. industrial sabotage, puppet parties, or they could be more expensive

Edit: 2) Better not too fast, I should pick more a kind of "medium"

[ 30 March 2002: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]</p>

[PvK]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
...I would rather get some proportions-like restrictions to intelligence projects done, e.g. industrial sabotage, puppet parties, or they could be more expensive...<hr></blockquote>

It seems to me that the problem with making intel projects more expensive, is that it makes them harder to block. This is a problem in Proportions, though, because if targetted on a homeworld, there is no way to limit their effects. In other words, industral sabotage could equate to eliminating an entire cultural center, and puppet parties could take over an entire homeworld, and as far as I know, this is not adjustable in any way for the type of world or planet... unless homeworlds are immune from puppet attacks. Although blocking attacks is usually pretty easy, I am thinking I probably should just remove these attack types.

I think I'm going to remove Communications Mimic too unless there is an outcry or Malfador changes it to do something besides cause an automatic state of war.

PvK

[PvK]

Ok Proportions Version 2.0 is ready for players to create their EMP files with.

Snag it at PBW or from the Proportions mod web page. (http://www.latibulum.com/pvk/proportions)

PvK

[dogscoff]

valkyries uploaded to PBW. Note that this is a pre-release Version with no AI.

Keep your eyes on my website for the first full release=-)

[PvK]

Thanks, Dogscoff. I notice that the zip doesn't specify an extraction folder - I assume we should put it in "/Valkyrie"?

PvK

[dogscoff]

Yeah, that's right. I have had trouble with the proportions mod in this respect, actually: If I put the images in proportions/races/pictures/valkyrie, they work fine. However, I'd like to be able to access them from other mods. Shouldn't I be able to put them in the main (ie non-mod) races/ pictures directory and have proportions access them from there? I've tried it but it doesn't work.

[Fyron]

If a mod includes races in its Races folder, then the normal Races folder will be ignored (except to access missing files for a race that has a folder in the mod).

[ 01 April 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]</p>

[PvK]

Yes, it will show up if you just put an empty /Valkyrie folder under Proportions/Pictures/Races, and the pictures exist int he main Pictures/Races folder.

PvK

[Arak Koba]

I am going to withdraw from this game. I am already involved in 3 other PBW games- two of which are about to start soon- and I don't want to burn myself out.

I did that with PBEM Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri by playing 6 games at once; and as much fun as that was, it burned me out.

Besides, I am still new to SE4, and have NO time yet spent playing any Prop.mod games.

But have fun, all ye rulers of galaxies! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I will catch the next one.

[PvK]

Ok, so Arak, you must have been "Anunikoba"?

Everyone else seems to have signed up, and there seem to be two players who I didn't recognize from this forum thread: RexTorres and Askan.

We're still awaiting empire uploads from:

Krsq
Imperator Fryon
Geoschmo
Askan
RexTorres

PvK

[Askan Nightbringer]

I'll do it when I get home tonight http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[dogscoff]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
there seem to be two players who I didn't recognize from this forum thread: RexTorres and Askan.
<hr></blockquote>

Askan seems to have taken part in just about every multiplayer I've ever played. Either he's an *extremely* prolific player, or he's following me=-)

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Askan Nightbringer]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by dogscoff:


Askan seems to have taken part in just about every multiplayer I've ever played. Either he's an *extremely* prolific player, or he's following me=-)

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <hr></blockquote>

I have a few doubles lurking around. Helps while I'm down the pub. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[dogscoff]

BTW, Rollo, check your private Messages.

[PvK]

Game started!

To show ships of players with non-built-in ship sets correctly, be sure to extract their shipsets from PBW to your Proportions/Pictures/Races folder, under their appropriate names. You probably want to delete their AI files from those directories, though. If you have those races in your non-Proportions pictures directory, I think you can just put in an empty folder with the name of the shipset in the Proportions/pictures/races directory, and it'll work.

If anyone's confused by that or would like a giant file with all the needed shipsets, let me know.

PvK

[Cargus10]

Aargh! I can't get the pvkprop1 game to load http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif I've put it in the Savegame folder, but I get a generic "cannot load" error when I try. Anyone have any ideas?

Cargus10 (aka Greenstar in the PBW forums)

[Gorgo]

Do you have the correct Version of the Proportions Mod installed?
Have you created you .emp file with the correct Version or maybe with an older Version of the Mod?

[PsychoTechFreak]

You have to unzip the file, have you ?

Edit: The file does not necessarily show up as a zip, but it is a zip. Right-click on it and send it to your zip manager program.

[ 05 April 2002: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]</p>

[Cargus10]

Yep, I've unzipped it, and yep, I have 2.0 installed - I pulled it off the Proportions website the day it was posted there.

[Cargus10]

Speaking of the .emp file - where must it reside? In the Savegames folder as well?

[oleg]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Cargus10:
Speaking of the .emp file - where must it reside? In the Savegames folder as well?<hr></blockquote>

No, in Empires folder.

[geoschmo]

If you can't open the first turn it has nothing to do with your .emp file. It's probably the path.txt has not been changed to use the proportions mod. Normally this gives an error about not having the same data files, but in the case of proportions you get the genaric "Cannot open" error. Probably because of the changes tot the racial traits file is my guess. Any way, my guess is edit the path.txt file, or use the modpicker and you will have no problems.

Geoschmo

[PvK]

Yes, although the .emp file is needed to actually play a PBW game, just to start it up. I should have seen an error when I set up the game if the .emp were bad. It sounds like the "cannot load game" error that comes up when the current Path file points to a Version that is quite different from the mod the game turn was created with. He says he's been able to run Proportions though by himself.

I think the advice would be to back up or remove his current Proportions folder, and re-install Proportions. Perhaps, for instance, his zip extractor didn't create the right sub-folders, or didn't extract all of the files, or he was browsing the Prop data files and inadvertantly changed something, or something along those lines.

PvK

[Cargus10]

OK - probablyu I messed up something when I tried to import the shipsets - every shipset people are using had different pathing information, and it's possible I moved soemthign to the wrong place. I'll just re-install Proportions 2.0 and try again - but it won't be until late tonigth before I can try, as I have tickets to the Braves-Mets game tonight http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[capnq]

We've had a couple of reports where a problem like this turned out to be an outdated Version of WinZip screwing up the unpacked file.

capnq
PBW admin

[PsychoTechFreak]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Cargus10:
OK - probablyu I messed up something when I tried to import the shipsets - every shipset people are using had different pathing information, and it's possible I moved soemthign to the wrong place. <hr></blockquote>

Don't bother with the shipsets now, you can download them you need if you get first contact. Maybe you just need 2 or 3 of them at all (like me ?)
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Cargus10]

Well, it turned out to be the Version of WinZip I was using. i'm up and running now, and have enven sent turn 2 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[PvK]

Ok, Geoschmo has set up Gold 1.67 & Proportions 2.1 for the next game turn. If you've not already done the current turn, do that one in 1.60 & 2.0.

PvK