New player struggling [Archive]

PsychoTechFreak

March 18th, 2002, 04:55 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Growltigga the Great:
Andy, welcome to the forum and I am glad that yet another Brit has joined the forum to add a bit of class to all these north americans http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<hr></blockquote>

This reminds me of a message which has been published during the Last election in the US:

Theme: United States of the Commonwealth

Subject: A message from the Home Office.

To the citizens of the United States of America,

In the light of your failure to elect a President of the USA and thus
to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your
independence, effective today.

Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchial duties
over all states, commonwealths and other territories. Except Utah, which she
does not fancy. Your new prime minister (The rt. hon. Tony Blair, MP
for the 97.85% of you who have until now been unaware that there is a world
outside your borders) will appoint a minister for America without the
need for further elections. Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A
questionnaire will be circulated next year to determine whether any of
you noticed.

To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following
rules are introduced with immediate effect:

1. You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary.
Then look up "aluminium". Check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed
at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it. Generally, you should
raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up "vocabulary". Using the
same twenty seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and
"you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. Look up
"interspersed".

2. There is no such thing as "US English". We will let Microsoft know
on your behalf.

3. You should learn to distinguish the English and Australian accents.
It really isn't that hard.

4. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as the
good guys.

5. You should relearn your original national anthem, "God Save The
Queen",but only after fully carrying out task 1. We would not want you to get
confused and give up half way through.

6. You should stop playing American "football". There is only one kind
of football. What you refer to as American "football" is not a very good
game.

The 2.15% of you who are aware that there is a world outside your
borders may have noticed that no one else plays "American" football. You will
no longer be allowed to play it, and should instead play proper football.
Initially, it would be best if you played with the girls. It is a
difficult game. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby
(which is similar to American "football", but does not involve stopping
for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like
nancies). We are hoping to get together at least a US rugby sevens side
by 2005.

7. You should declare war on Quebec and France, using nuclear weapons if
they give you any merde. The 97.85% of you who were not aware that
there is a world outside your borders should count yourselves lucky. The
Russians have never been the bad guys.

8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November 8th will be a new
national holiday, but only in England. It will be called "Indecisive
Day".

9. All American cars are hereby Banned. They are [self-censored] and it is for
your own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we
mean.

10. Please tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us crazy.

Thank you for your cooperation.

----------
Don't be offended by this, it does not display my opinion, of course... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ 18 March 2002: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

Rollo

March 18th, 2002, 05:02 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:

This reminds me a message which has been published during the Last election in US:
...
<hr></blockquote>

ROTFL http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

wr8th

March 18th, 2002, 05:22 PM

Andy,

As a newbie myself, it helps if you have some recollection of MOO2. The game is similar in many ways albeit more complex.

Trial and error is sometimes the way to go. Playing the Klingons, one of my colonies rebelled (in the home system yet). How to go about bringing it back in line? I had researched "troops" earlier but had no clue how to use them. WTH, just give it a go, put 'em on a transport and include in a fleet of LC's, DDs, and a Light Carrier. Soften up the planet and send in the troops. I had barely enough but armed with Meson BLasters 3 (early in game) they squeaked out a victory. I also gleened that approx 1 militia point is generated planetside for every 20 MM pop.

Don't get frustrated. Part of the fun is watching the game unfold as you learn.

capnq

March 19th, 2002, 12:25 AM

Since no-one else has mentioned it:

Weapon platforms, fighters, troops, and drones are "units", which can be cargo; bases are classified as ships. When you are designing (Designs, F3) or building (Construction, F7; or Construction Queue, Q), ships and units are on seperate tabs.

MikeRMcCartney

March 20th, 2002, 01:04 AM

Andy, I'm a person in the same situation, and can say this is the VERY BEST forum ever. They have answered ever question I've asked (no matter if it's dumb or not!). As for me, I play my game until I run into a problem or question, then scan the forum and ask questions until I get it solved. Then I continue playing. If you like to play fast, my method may not be very good. I'm already 4 months into my first game.

Alpha Kodiak

March 20th, 2002, 02:01 AM

PsychoTechFreak:

Please don't tell me we have to show the Brits who's boss, AGAIN!

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

pathfinder

March 20th, 2002, 02:03 AM

Andy: Don't feel alone. I been playing SEIV since September 2000 and have won only one game out of hundreds.....and they say the AI ain't so great! HA! and now it is even harder with the improved AI in gold....oh well...back to my daily whuppin'

PsychoTechFreak

March 20th, 2002, 02:41 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Alpha Kodiak:
PsychoTechFreak:

Please don't tell me we have to show the Brits who's boss, AGAIN!

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif <hr></blockquote>

Strength is irrelevant. Resistance is futile. Negotiation is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Freedom is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You must comply. A neural transceiver is required for maximum communication,
we will work as one mind. We are the Brits. Resistance as you know it is over. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. You will become one with the Brits.
Why do you resist? We only wish to raise quality of life for all species. Brit Locutus. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

MikeRMcCartney

March 20th, 2002, 02:50 AM

BTW Psycho, on point #9, as an Audi A4 owner, I agree. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

pathfinder

March 20th, 2002, 03:33 AM

Psycho: Sevens? BAH! full sides and scrum down!

Instar

March 20th, 2002, 04:44 AM

American football is awesome dude. Rugby is for insane people. I remember this pic where the guy was reaching for the ball, grabbed this guys head, thinking it was the ball, and poked this guy in the eye, drawing a fair sized squirt of blood. Both players continued playing. Goodness, at least we keep them alive in american football.
Edit: I must duly note that rugby is a really fun game though. But its nuts

[ 20 March 2002: Message edited by: Instar ]

Growltigga

March 20th, 2002, 03:13 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Andy Watkins:
Tigga and all,

[Andy, I will do my damnedest to answer all these, the nice thing about this forum is that if my answer is incomplete, you can safely bet a spice girl that some north american or german will give you chapter and verse]

Thankyou for your support, you have inspired me to have another go.

[don't give up, it is actually really worth it]

Space empires IV is very difficult to get in the UK so I guess most of you are from the good old US of A. I will of course try and remember to spell things incorrectly :-)

[I am a true blue Brit]

I thought the manual with Gold was supposed to be great, (it isn't) so didn't look on the disk, have now read the real manual and much more makes sense, though I still have a feeling there are lots of gaps in my knowledge.

I am VERY early in the game so don't appear to have any fighters or any ground troops at all.

[to get fighters and troops, you need to research 'Construction' which will open up these areas - I personally like fighters - see my Posts in the 'ship designs for stock game' thread]

I can build up to Destroyer sized ships, or small satellites or space stations or weapons platforms that's about it.

[that is about right for the early part of the game - to increase the size of your weapons platforms, satellites or space stations, you need to research the next tech level in weapon platforms, satellites and base constructiuon respectively - if you research 'ship construction', your next level should give you light cruiser and IIRC medium transport although that may only be with the cruiser hull]

I recently noticed an ally of mine has been planting satellites on all his warp points. Ah that's a good idea I thought I'll copy them. Built some satellites, loaded them onto a transport, went to warp point and could not dump the cargo. Looks like I need to be able to "Launch" the satellites, how do I do that?

[right, first you need to build a ship that has "satellite layer" component on it. You get this free at the start of the game. Also make sure you build some cargo pods on your satellite layer ship. This will allow you to deploy and pick satellites. When you get to the place you want to deploy, hit the 'I' button on your keyboard (I can tremeber what the symbol looks like on the order bar), this will allow you to lauch your sats. This also works for launching fighters, mines whatever]

I wanted to mine asteroids, only ship that seemed to be able to do so was an attack destroyer with no guns and a pair of mining add on's. Took ship to asteroids and it started mining straight away.
Yippee I got something right.....
Then it ran out of fuel and I had to send it back to a planet to reful in the next system and then all the way back again. BORING! How can I stop this??

[you cant stop running out of fuel, various techs will allow you to enhance your ships' range, eg supply storage pods, solar collectors etc, but you just need to scope this into the game]

If I want to move a ship a couple of systems I appear to have to go WARP to the nearest point. Then go to the next system and put WARP to the next point etc etc. Can I get a ship across several systems with just one command?

[yes, just press the move order ('m' key on keyboardand click on where you want the ship to go, it will authomatically warp as required on route]

What do waypoints do and how do you use them?

[dont know, anyone?]

Not very clear about combat. if you have ion cannons they seem to fire straight at whatever you target. I had a mk I capital missile and think I fired it, very difficult to tell, I think it was reponsible for a purple splat on my ship, I never seemed to get a purple splat on my target so don't know if it ever hit, or was the purple splat their missiles hitting me??

[hard to know what your purple splat is, missiles should be easy as if you fire them, a missile appears and on following turns will track after the target - most beam weapons are represented by a direct firing icon, the purple splat could just be shields?]

I have a big list of other questions but only a small brain to store them in so I have forgotten them all!

[join the club - everybody on this forum has a big list and a small brain]

Any assistance you can provide on any of the above would be hugely appreciated,

Andy
PS are there any "Difficulty" setting in the game?

[there is to the extent that on the playter setup screen, you can set the AI to hard setting, with lots of bonus points]

PPS My favourite sci fi series of all time is Babylon 5, do I get the impression I can "Mod" the game in some way to reflect B5?? I don't understand anything at all about modding.

[see modding and the 'Babylon 5 mod' thread]
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Growltigga the Great:
[QB]Andy, welcome to the forum and I am glad that yet another Brit has joined the forum to add a bit of class to all these north americans http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif <hr></blockquote>

PsychoTechFreak

March 20th, 2002, 03:13 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by MikeRMcCartney:
BTW Psycho, on point #9, as an Audi A4 owner, I agree. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <hr></blockquote>

Meown an Audi A4 too, it rocks !

PsychoTechFreak

March 20th, 2002, 03:18 PM

adder_inf

March 20th, 2002, 04:44 PM

The waypoints can be set in the empire screen(I think). Then you can use them to move ships to them without clicking on the system. I find them useful on resupply bases so you can send ships along a warp chain.

PsychoTechFreak

March 20th, 2002, 05:27 PM

The waypoints can be set by hotkeys directly in the systems view.

To set one, hit Alt+Number of waypoint, e.g. Alt-1 and then click the sector.
To move a ship to a waypoint, select the ship and hit Ctrl-1 (through 0).

Edit: You can find the (other) Hotkeys under the "?" - window, "hotkeys".

[ 20 March 2002: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

Dracus

March 20th, 2002, 05:52 PM

Since no one really answered your questions, I will try, you asked quite a few in somewhat a huge post so bear with me.
<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Andy Watkins:

I am VERY early in the game so don't appear to have any fighters or any ground troops at all.

You have to research constrution and then fighters/troops before you get them.

I can build up to Destroyer sized ships, or small satellites or space stations or weapons platforms that's about it.

Once again, you have to research each upgrade.
ships ---- ship construction
sats ----there is a sat research tree
same thing for platforms, drones, and space stations.

I recently noticed an ally of mine has been planting satellites on all his warp points. Ah that's a good idea I thought I'll copy them. Built some satellites, loaded them onto a transport, went to warp point and could not dump the cargo. Looks like I need to be able to "Launch" the satellites, how do I do that?

First make sure you are loading them into a ship that contains sat launchers (not cargo holders)
Then there is a button on the top that shows a ship with and arrow going out, that is the remote launch button. you can preset the orders by clicking the ship, the button and the wp, it will ask what you want to launch, pick sats.

I wanted to mine asteroids, only ship that seemed to be able to do so was an attack destroyer with no guns and a pair of mining add on's. Took ship to asteroids and it started mining straight away.
Yippee I got something right.....
Then it ran out of fuel and I had to send it back to a planet to reful in the next system and then all the way back again. BORING! How can I stop this??

for mining ships you can add panels once you research them.
Or you can build large sats and launch them to do the mining, Once again you need to research them.

If I want to move a ship a couple of systems I appear to have to go WARP to the nearest point. Then go to the next system and put WARP to the next point etc etc. Can I get a ship across several systems with just one command?

Yes, if the first system has been explored, then all you do is click the ship, click the system and click the far wp, you want to use.
You can go across as many systems as you want as long as all the systems you are crossing, can be viewed by you.

What do waypoints do and how do you use them?

Waypoints can be used for a number of things. I use them to create central locations for all my newly built ships to move to before I send them out on missions. some people use them to create move chains for moving fleets or ships to the front lines. They are very useful.

Not very clear about combat. if you have ion cannons they seem to fire straight at whatever you target. I had a mk I capital missile and think I fired it, very difficult to tell, I think it was reponsible for a purple splat on my ship, I never seemed to get a purple splat on my target so don't know if it ever hit, or was the purple splat their missiles hitting me??

I don't quite understand this question. I think you are asking if you fired a missle or if you were being hit? well, if you fire a missle, it appears in the same spot as your ship and then moves out toward the target. if you are being hit, then the missle moves into you ship spot and you see an explosion.

PS are there any "Difficulty" setting in the game?

yes, when you first set up a new game, there are settings to pick if you want neutral races, if you want low, medium, or high number of reg races, if they should be easy, medium or hard, if they should recieve, a low, medium or high bonus.

There are other settings that make the gamje harder or easy, such as how many starting planets you start with, what type of events you want, and an number of other settings, too many for me to remeber without pulling up the game.
Don't play hard settings until you fully understand the game, or you will be taken out to early to enjoy it.

PPS My favourite sci fi series of all time is Babylon 5, do I get the impression I can "Mod" the game in some way to reflect B5?? I don't understand anything at all about modding.

you can in a way and there are mods that add B5 sets to the game.
It is best not to try modding, until you understand the game a little more, then come post your modding questions and we will try and help you. Never mod the orginal game itself, create a mod folder and do all modding there or set up a second game load on your system and mod it.

<hr></blockquote>

Andy Watkins

March 20th, 2002, 06:57 PM

Dracus,

Thanks for the reply, I've made a few observations, will make more when I have the chance to try them out.

<<You have to research constrution and then fighters/troops before you get them.>>

I will research construction next

<<First make sure you are loading them into a ship that contains sat launchers (not cargo holders)>>

Thanks you are the second person to say this, hadn't realised what Sat launchers were, will give it a try

<<for mining ships you can add panels once you research them.
Or you can build large sats and launch them to do the mining, Once again you need to research them.>>

Would a satelite with panels ever run out of supplies, if not this would seem ideal???

<<Yes, if the first system has been explored, then all you do is click the ship, click the system and click the far wp, you want to use.
You can go across as many systems as you want as long as all the systems you are crossing, can be viewed by you.>>

I think this is the mistake I made, tried that right at the beginning and it didn't work, probably because I hadn't been to the systems before, so I gave up never thought to try again, silly me!

<<you can in a way and there are mods that add B5 sets to the game.
It is best not to try modding, until you understand the game a little more, >>

Agreed I'll figure out the basic game before buggering around with it!

Andy
PS Thanks to everyone who is helping
PPS What was the relationship between this post and Audi cars?

Suicide Junkie

March 20th, 2002, 07:11 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr><<for mining ships you can add panels once you research them.
Or you can build large sats and launch them to do the mining, Once again you need to research them.>>

Would a satelite with panels ever run out of supplies, if not this would seem ideal???<hr></blockquote>

Two things:
- Sats have infinite supplies and/or do not use or keep track of supplies. You never have to worry about ammo on a sat.
- Running out of supplies does not affect the minig capability of your ship. Let it sit there forever.
- Ships cost maintenace! be sure that you are still getting more resources OUT of the planet than you are putting into the ship!

<blockquote>quote:<hr><<you can in a way and there are mods that add B5 sets to the game.
It is best not to try modding, until you understand the game a little more, >>

Agreed I'll figure out the basic game before buggering around with it!<hr></blockquote>Feel free to download and play with the B5 Mod (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=23&t=004079) that is being written!

Growltigga

March 20th, 2002, 07:23 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Dracus:
Since no one really answered your questions, I will try, you asked quite a few in somewhat a huge post so bear with me.
<hr></blockquote>

cheeky swine, I did try and answer Andy's questions, I just dont know how to split up the quotes in bold and normal text as neatly as you do!

PS I once got into an accident with an Audi A4 - my 7 year old clio lost quite badly but it was almost worth it to see a grown man burst out crying at the state of the audi http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Dracus

March 20th, 2002, 08:16 PM

Ah, That is why I did not see your answers.

Andy Watkins

March 21st, 2002, 02:55 AM

Tigga and all,

Thankyou for your support, you have inspired me to have another go.

Space empires IV is very difficult to get in the UK so I guess most of you are from the good old US of A. I will of course try and remember to spell things incorrectly :-)

I thought the manual with Gold was supposed to be great, (it isn't) so didn't look on the disk, have now read the real manual and much more makes sense, though I still have a feeling there are lots of gaps in my knowledge.

I am VERY early in the game so don't appear to have any fighters or any ground troops at all.

I can build up to Destroyer sized ships, or small satellites or space stations or weapons platforms that's about it.

I recently noticed an ally of mine has been planting satellites on all his warp points. Ah that's a good idea I thought I'll copy them. Built some satellites, loaded them onto a transport, went to warp point and could not dump the cargo. Looks like I need to be able to "Launch" the satellites, how do I do that?

I wanted to mine asteroids, only ship that seemed to be able to do so was an attack destroyer with no guns and a pair of mining add on's. Took ship to asteroids and it started mining straight away.
Yippee I got something right.....
Then it ran out of fuel and I had to send it back to a planet to reful in the next system and then all the way back again. BORING! How can I stop this??

If I want to move a ship a couple of systems I appear to have to go WARP to the nearest point. Then go to the next system and put WARP to the next point etc etc. Can I get a ship across several systems with just one command?

What do waypoints do and how do you use them?

Not very clear about combat. if you have ion cannons they seem to fire straight at whatever you target. I had a mk I capital missile and think I fired it, very difficult to tell, I think it was reponsible for a purple splat on my ship, I never seemed to get a purple splat on my target so don't know if it ever hit, or was the purple splat their missiles hitting me??

I have a big list of other questions but only a small brain to store them in so I have forgotten them all!

Any assistance you can provide on any of the above would be hugely appreciated,

Andy
PS are there any "Difficulty" setting in the game?

PPS My favourite sci fi series of all time is Babylon 5, do I get the impression I can "Mod" the game in some way to reflect B5?? I don't understand anything at all about modding.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Growltigga the Great:
[QB]Andy, welcome to the forum and I am glad that yet another Brit has joined the forum to add a bit of class to all these north americans http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Andy Watkins

March 21st, 2002, 10:54 AM

Thanks all, I am starting to do better.

Didn't realise if a ship ran out of fuel I could just leave it mining, I presumed the crew would all die or something. Assuming you can put mining panels on a satellite this would be better and more efficient??

I built some light cruisers and went off to clobber the only neighbour I wasn't allied with. Had a couple of great fights, kicked his arse. I went to one of his colony planets did a strategic battle, won easily and the colony was gone.....

I didn't get given the option to invade, take over the colony or anything??

Admittedly I haven't yet researched ground troops, but if I had would I have been given an option to take over, or in strategic battle do you always blow up the colony?

Mining ships running out of fuel, I have found the resupply at nearest button, this is nice but they don't come back!

What does the set patrol button do, will they patrol, go back and resupply and then come back again??

Presumably if you were building a big fleet you could put a big freighter with lots of supply in the fleet and then the fleet could Last much longer??

Andy

PsychoTechFreak

March 21st, 2002, 12:46 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Andy Watkins:
Thanks all, I am starting to do better.

Didn't realise if a ship ran out of fuel I could just leave it mining, I presumed the crew would all die or something. Assuming you can put mining panels on a satellite this would be better and more efficient??

I built some light cruisers and went off to clobber the only neighbour I wasn't allied with. Had a couple of great fights, kicked his arse. I went to one of his colony planets did a strategic battle, won easily and the colony was gone.....

I didn't get given the option to invade, take over the colony or anything??

Admittedly I haven't yet researched ground troops, but if I had would I have been given an option to take over, or in strategic battle do you always blow up the colony?

Mining ships running out of fuel, I have found the resupply at nearest button, this is nice but they don't come back!

What does the set patrol button do, will they patrol, go back and resupply and then come back again??

Presumably if you were building a big fleet you could put a big freighter with lots of supply in the fleet and then the fleet could Last much longer??

Andy<hr></blockquote>

1)Problem is, you can just put one part on a sat, but this sat would not have to pay maintenance. Try to build a space station, they are 50% maintenance compared with ships, but you can put more miners into it compared with sats.

2)You need a troop transport with ground troops, and the fleet has to be set up with "capture planet" strategy. You could observe how this problem is solved with several AI races, e.g. Space Vikings, just sit tight and watch them invading planets.

3)This button just orders the ship to the nearest resupply facility, nothing else. If you have a military alliance with someone, this could be even a resupply by allies planet.

4)Set patrol for a fleet or a ship lets them patrol between several sectors that you want them to guard. It is a neat function in simultaneous games.

5)Yes, the supplies are always divided brotherly at the end of a turn. Another good part for such a kind of resupply ship is always a resupply unit, repair unit or a quantum reactor.

"PS I once got into an accident with an Audi A4 - my 7 year old clio lost quite badly but it was almost worth it to see a grown man burst out crying at the state of the audi "

I can feel with him, buying an Audi is more like a kinda marriage, although it does not exist a sufficient term in any of the known Languages. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ 21 March 2002: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

dogscoff

March 21st, 2002, 01:30 PM

Hi Andy,

You'll be surprised (as I was) at how many UK players we have here on the forum. We're probably the third or fourth most common nationality here after the US, Canadians and Germans. I think we also have more than one Argentinian, a few ozzies, and I'm pretty sure there's someone round here currently residing in Africa - and that doesn't even take into account the lurkers.

Actually, it'd be interesting to do a comprehensive head-count. Or maybe Shrapnel could give us an indication based on where they have shipped copies of the game..?

*(Dogscoff ducks to avoid stale bread products thrown by people whose country he failed to mention)

[ 21 March 2002: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

Andy Watkins

March 21st, 2002, 03:00 PM

Thanks for advice,

A few questions.

<<1)Problem is, you can just put one part on a sat, but this sat would not have to pay maintenance. Try to build a space station, they are 50% maintenance compared with ships, but you can put more miners into it compared with sats.>>

Good idea HOW do i move a space stion to the asteroid field?

<<2)You need a troop transport with ground troops, and the fleet has to be set up with "capture planet" strategy. >>

Sounds reasonable I will do that

<<If you have a military alliance with someone, this could be even a resupply by allies planet.>>

Didn't know this, will give it a try

Andy

Growltigga

March 21st, 2002, 03:02 PM

Good idea HOW do i move a space stion to the asteroid field?

you need to develop cruiser size hulls so that you can build a spaceyard module in that hull and make a mobile construction base - move this beuaty to where you want to build the spacestation and bingo

dogscoff

March 21st, 2002, 05:23 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>
>You need a troop transport with ground troops,
>and the fleet has to be set up with "capture
>planet" strategy.

Sounds reasonable I will do that
<hr></blockquote>

Or, if you're using tactical combat, fly your troop transport right up close to the planet, then click "options" and "drop troops".

Watch out for those pesky weapons platforms!

capnq

March 21st, 2002, 05:52 PM

A few more points that haven't been mentioned: <blockquote>quote:<hr> first you need to build a ship that has "satellite layer" component on it. You get this free at the start of the game. Also make sure you build some cargo pods on your satellite layer ship. <hr></blockquote> The Satellite Layer component itself has a small amount of cargo capacity, but you usually want to add Cargo Bays, too. <blockquote>quote:<hr> Not very clear about combat. if you have ion cannons they seem to fire straight at whatever you target. I had a mk I capital missile and think I fired it, very difficult to tell, I think it was reponsible for a purple splat on my ship, I never seemed to get a purple splat on my target so don't know if it ever hit, or was the purple splat their missiles hitting me??
<hr></blockquote>There are a couple different classes of weapon; you can see which is which when you're designing a ship (F3) with the Weapons Report button. When a weapon hits a ship, there will be an explosion sound effect and a visual that varies by weapon. If you see a brief flicker of a circle-ish thing around the target, you hit Shields.

Each race has its own ship and missile graphics; some races are much harder to see than others. <blockquote>quote:<hr> What does the set patrol button do, will they patrol, go back and resupply and then come back again??
<hr></blockquote>I don't think I've ever actually used this in SE IV, but I think it will shuttle back and forth between its current position and the destination you set. It won't go back for supplies on its own unless you have the Resupply Minister [ (F11) Empire Staus/Ministers ] turned on. <blockquote>quote:<hr>
Presumably if you were building a big fleet you could put a big freighter with lots of supply in the fleet and then the fleet could Last much longer?? <hr></blockquote>Yes, but note that Cargo Bays and Supply Storage are two different things; you probably don't want to build your supply tender on a Transport hull. <blockquote>quote:<hr> maybe Shrapnel could give us an indication based on where they have shipped copies of the game..?
<hr></blockquote>A long time ago, the Shrapnel home page had a Top Ten list of countries by games sold (though I think that was for all products). USA was first, of course; ISTR that 2-4 were the Netherlands, Germany, and Great Britain, but I may have the order wrong.

Andy Watkins

March 21st, 2002, 06:24 PM

That might have taken me a long time to work out, I'll see if my light cruiser hull is big enough for the job.

Thanks everyone you are giving me loads of great ideas.

you need to develop cruiser size hulls so that you can build a spaceyard module in that hull and make a mobile construction base - move this beuaty to where you want to build the spacestation and bingo

rand029

March 21st, 2002, 09:23 PM

Guess I'll add my newbie question to this thread for convenience...

Is there any way to make the Ministers automatically pick what type of colony to make?

I set my ministers for Facility Construction on, and they take care of building, but no matter what I try, it still asks for what type of colony it is. I know the AI have a file that determines planet type... I just want it to work for me, so I don't have to worry about it.

Thanks in advance!

Also - is there a way to thread Messages in the board to put the newest at the end instead of the beginning? Reading whole threads involves a LOT of scrolling for longer Messages....

Alpha Kodiak

March 21st, 2002, 09:40 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by rand029:
Guess I'll add my newbie question to this thread for convenience...

Is there any way to make the Ministers automatically pick what type of colony to make?

I set my ministers for Facility Construction on, and they take care of building, but no matter what I try, it still asks for what type of colony it is. I know the AI have a file that determines planet type... I just want it to work for me, so I don't have to worry about it.

Thanks in advance!

Also - is there a way to thread Messages in the board to put the newest at the end instead of the beginning? Reading whole threads involves a LOT of scrolling for longer Messages....<hr></blockquote>

It took me forever to figure it out, but there is a setting under Empire Options (I think) that allows you to turn that off. I'm at work, so I can't tell you exactly what it says, but I believe that it is toward the bottom of the first group of options.

rand029

March 22nd, 2002, 12:50 AM

Ah, I found it...
"Display select colony type dialog when colonizing planet."

Thanks. Much better now! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

PsychoTechFreak

March 22nd, 2002, 12:57 AM

"display confirmation dialog when ending turn" -off, saves a lot of clicks, too.

Growltigga

March 22nd, 2002, 02:05 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by dogscoff:
I'm pretty sure there's someone round here currently residing in Africa - and that doesn't even take into account the lurkers.]<hr></blockquote>

His handle is Saxon and he only half counts as African as I think he is Canadian.

A head count would be interesting, you, me and Dogscoff = 3 brits, NippyTheMagicalDUck makes 4, Derb makes 5, trying to think who else there is

dogscoff

March 22nd, 2002, 02:52 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>A head count would be interesting, you, me and Dogscoff = 3 brits, NippyTheMagicalDUck makes 4, Derb makes 5, trying to think who else there is<hr></blockquote>

I think Matryx is in Exeter, that's 6, and I believe (but I could be wrong) that John Beech of USy is on our side of the water, although he doesn't post here often, having his own website to take care of.

Andy Watkins

March 22nd, 2002, 10:40 AM

Hi all,

Doing better now, one more question though.

When you are picking up or dropping off cargo, it always drops off or picks up EVERYTHING.

How can I select the amount??

Andy

Andy Watkins

March 22nd, 2002, 10:40 AM

Hi all,

Doing better now, one more question though.

When you are picking up or dropping off cargo, it always drops off or picks up EVERYTHING.

How can I select the amount??

Andy

PvK

March 22nd, 2002, 10:43 AM

End your orders at the transfer location. Then you can use the transfer button to shuffle units as you please. Once satisfied, you can proceed with more orders. In simultanous mode games, this will require you to lose a partial turn's movement (unless your ships ends the turn there exactly at turn end) in order to do the transfer manually.

PvK

Andy Watkins

March 22nd, 2002, 03:36 PM

That sounds like a great explanation, only I didn't understand any of it!

"End your orders at the transfer location"

This sounds crucial but I am sorry it means nothing to me?

Actually WHAT transfer button, I am using a load and drop cargo button? is that my problem??

Andy

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by PvK:
End your orders at the transfer location. Then you can use the transfer button to shuffle units as you please. Once satisfied, you can proceed with more orders. In simultanous mode games, this will require you to lose a partial turn's movement (unless your ships ends the turn there exactly at turn end) in order to do the transfer manually.

PvK<hr></blockquote>

PsychoTechFreak

March 22nd, 2002, 04:06 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Andy Watkins:

Actually WHAT transfer button, I am using a load and drop cargo button? is that my problem??

Andy

<hr></blockquote>

The button that PvK is talking about, it displays an arrow up AND an arrow down, it is located somewhere near the "up only" and "down only" Versions at the left side of the control panel.

Suicide Junkie

March 22nd, 2002, 04:15 PM

Tell the ship to go to where you want to transfer cargo to/from.

Wait.

Once the ship physically arrives, then you can use the transfer order.

capnq

March 22nd, 2002, 10:45 PM

To clarify:

There are several different orders for cargo handling.

Transfer (T) lets you manually move things among ships and planets in the same sector.

Load (L) and Drop (D) let you move to a destination and pick up or drop cargo there. You can only specify one type of cargo and it automatically shifts the maximum amount possible.

Launch/Recover (U), Launch Remotely (I), and Recover Remotely (O) work similarly, but only for satellites, fighters, mines, and drones, except that you can't recover mines and drones.

Growltigga

April 2nd, 2002, 03:00 PM

Andy, I think there are various strategy guides out there (I am sure the more technically minded people out there can provide the links) but I think none of them really provide the basic tips and information any new player probably needs.

The easiest thing is still to ask on the forum, I dont think I have ever seen a case of anyone minding

Gryphin

April 2nd, 2002, 03:03 PM

Andy,
RE: "Did anyone ever write a kind of "Starters Guide" to SEIV with all these little tips and techniques in that we may miss at first appearences?"
I have thought about it. Ieven started a database so I could look ideas by subject.
There are two issues:
1) The content of this site is the legal property of Shrapnel Games
2) The amount of work to do it properly would require more than any possible pay off.
Possible if a group could get permission to do so then a group of dedicated people could compile something.

Growltigga

April 2nd, 2002, 03:08 PM

Gryphin, you are right on both counts and I think this adds weight to my proposition of posting on the forum if you have a question. THe core of people who regularily frequent this sight are always willing to answer any question ranging from the depths of modding to tactical tips to why orange jam is called marmalade (cue Tesco Samoa or Val with an enclycopedia britannica I think)

Andy Watkins

April 2nd, 2002, 04:48 PM

Growltigga,

Asking on the forum is excellent, you all reply very quickly nd always know the answers. Just thought you must be getting bored of answering the same question for the 100th time......

Unless that is of course I keep asking questions that have never been asked before (unlikely)

Andy

The easiest thing is still to ask on the forum, I dont think I have ever seen a case of anyone minding[/QB][/QUOTE]

Growltigga

April 2nd, 2002, 04:54 PM

Andy, I don't think anyone gets bored of answering questions raised by anyone on this forum - we were all there once and I for example have been asking the same questions about a dozen times

Any question going is absolutely fair game for the SEIV posse (unless it is that one about 'why is my colony ship not got any population on it?' http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

Keep in mind that (a) it is human nature to want to seem knowledgeable by answering questions raised by other people (b) most of the people on this thread are big heads and want to look knowledgeable by answering questions raised by other people and (c) this is probably one of the politest and friendliest forums you will find outside the Womens' Institute - lordy, we have even done baking and recipies

(Mac, did your mother-in-law ever cook that wicked curry recipy I posted for you??)

oleg

April 2nd, 2002, 05:05 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Growltigga:
to why orange jam is called marmalade (cue Tesco Samoa or Val with an enclycopedia britannica I think)<hr></blockquote>

Etymology: Portuguese marmelada quince conserve, from marmelo quince, from Latin melimelum, a sweet apple, from Greek melimElon, from meli honey + mElon apple

Growltigga

April 2nd, 2002, 05:08 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by oleg:

Etymology: Portuguese marmelada quince conserve, from marmelo quince, from Latin melimelum, a sweet apple, from Greek melimElon, from meli honey + mElon apple<hr></blockquote>

Oleg, I should point out that you are probably no more than half a mile from me (I am near Barbirolli Square/Gmex currently) and deserve a well aimed slap for that response

Andy Watkins

April 3rd, 2002, 02:10 AM

Thanks everyone. I have been off on holiday for a week, very nice time up in the lake district and York.

Now back to reality and SEIV.

Thanks for the info on Transfer cargo, that helps.

I continue to get the general hang of things.

Did anyone ever write a kind of "Starters Guide" to SEIV with all these little tips and techniques in that we may miss at first appearences?

Andy

oleg

April 3rd, 2002, 10:21 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Growltigga:

Oleg, I should point out that you are probably no more than half a mile from me (I am near Barbirolli Square/Gmex currently) and deserve a well aimed slap for that response<hr></blockquote>

Yes, it is 10 minutes walk from UMIST to Deansgate ! We should meet sometimes.

Gryphin

April 3rd, 2002, 03:00 PM

Andy,
"I have got to the point where I have military alliances with everyone. They appear to fight amongst themselves and send me threatening Messages if I continue to be allied to their enemy"
"I of course just ignore all their Messages. They then do nothing and pretend they hadn't sent them...."

That is how I handle it. Meanwhile I:
1) Research as much as possible
2) Try to determine who;
A) Is the most likley to attack me
B) Who I could Asorb / Defeat
C) Make long range preparations to deal with "A" while keeping "B" in mind.
3) Build as few ships as possible since they will become obsolete quickly
During times of relative peace I research "Applyed Research" and other techs that lead to stronger overall foundation to build on.
I use this time to uprade all facilies.
Good time to start researching Intel. It can be a good initial defence when your ships are obsolete.
I hope this makes sence. There is more but overall, "Talk Softly and Research Big Sticks"

[ 03 April 2002: Message edited by: Gryphin ]

Andy Watkins

April 3rd, 2002, 04:51 PM

Gryphin,

I tried that a game ago was going good for a few years then got hit by one bad guy and couldn't stop them.

Now doing basically the same except also keeping a good fleet in being.

Also sticking lots of satellites on all my warp points. My understanding is it should slow down an attacker AND you don't pay maintenance for them once built??

Andy

"Talk Softly and Research Big Sticks"

[ 03 April 2002: Message edited by: Gryphin ][/QB][/QUOTE]

mac5732

April 3rd, 2002, 05:11 PM

Andy, also build several Med or Large Battlestations at your critical wormholes along with your sats and a small to average minefield. Be sure that you put a space yard, mine layer, satilite layer bays on your BS's, that way you can build them on site instead of trucking them across the system. Also put your best scanner on at least 1 sat or BS in each system so you can look for cloaked ships..

just some ideas mac

Andy Watkins

April 3rd, 2002, 05:13 PM

Mac,

Still early in game, I haven't built battlestations yet. Do I build them and carry them in a very large cargo hold? Or do I build a ship with a spaceyard on it and build them in situ?

I presume the latter

Andy

Andy, also build several Med or Large Battlestations at your critical wormholes along with your sats and a small to average minefield.

mac5732

April 3rd, 2002, 05:18 PM

Andy, use ship with space yard to build your BS, then once its built both your BS and shipyard ship can both build at the same time at same location, also build BS over your primary planets and use those for shipyards, this frees up space on your planets for better facilities and if you have several, you can build multiple ships at the same location close to the same time frames. Remember they are expensive to maintain, so pick your locations carefully, also by having 2 or more together you can upgrade them 1 at a time without taking away all your defense.

just some ideas mac

tesco samoa

April 3rd, 2002, 07:16 PM

Battle stations have a reduction in Maintance by 50%. (Then again it could just be the mod I am playing.)

So build them and use them.

A good stag is to build some space yard stations 500 kt size with the command units ( non computer core ) 1 ship yard and 2 point defences.

Then use these to build the larger space stations ( for defence away from planets or in conjunction with planet yards)

That way you can que up these yards and let them build away.

Gryphin

April 3rd, 2002, 07:26 PM

Yes do keep fleets stratiegicaly placed. I guess I should have said build as few ships as possible.
mac makes some good points.
Here is my view of Space Stations at warp points;
Note: I hate a static defence so the following should be taken with that in mind.
1) Major investment that must be protected and can't be moved when you expand.
2) They take a lot of time to build so you will need a fleet there to protect the Ship Yard Ships
3) If you play tactical combat a Satellite carrier backed by a small ship can be very effective. The Satellite carrier can dispence the sats in smaller Groups so you can select your targets. I have actualy put "walls" of sats in front of my missle ships. The ship acts as bait to get the AI to come through the sats. The sats can inflict a lot of pain before the AI reaches the ship. This type of defence can expand as your empire expands. When deploying sats in tacticle put the older ones out in front to get chewed up first.
This defence will not work well in stratiegic mode.

Andy Watkins

April 4th, 2002, 02:17 AM

Back again,

I have got to the point where I have military alliances with everyone. They appear to fight amongst themselves and send me threatening Messages if I continue to be allied to their enemy.

I of course just ignore all their Messages. They then do nothing and pretend they hadn't sent them....

In MOO2 and similar Civ games alliances can be a nightmare, your allies start a war for no reason, get you involved and then make peace 3 seconds later leaving you in a war you never wanted in the first place.

SEIV seems to be at the opposite extreme? Any explanations.

Andy
PS Fighters are very good aren't they?

Growltigga

April 5th, 2002, 05:50 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by oleg:
Yes, it is 10 minutes walk from UMIST to Deansgate ! We should meet sometimes.<hr></blockquote>

Zumbar or Revolution, Tampopo or any dodgy boozer faraway from Canal Street and you are on - clutch your copy of SEIV gold!!

Growltigga

April 5th, 2002, 06:06 PM

Andy, I suspect this argument will go on and on and on.

Personally, I have only played against the v1.49 AI and a particularily daft friend (sorry khanuk). We all know the AI is a bit lacking sometimes so I make a point of not using fighters or mines or massed warp point defences against them - it just gets a bit sad

I dont use battlestations or even space stations at warp points for a lot of the reasons Gryphin goes into. A static defence is no way to win a war and you need mobile units to win the fight anyway.

I research advanced military science ASAP and build a sizeable fleet of say, light cruisers, which actually have very few components in them. When war breaks out, I retrofit these ships to the design spec I need (PDC heavy versus the Krill or Norak for example) and bingo, you have a modern, sizeable, hard hitting fleet.

The advantage of building the hulls first is that you can take advantage of your ships/fleets being trained up as per the ship training/fleet training facilities you have built by now.

Mac is right too, you need to diversify your construction capability and also expensive, spaceyard equipped spacestations over your planets are extremely important if not vital!!
I generally will have say 4 spaceyards orbitally Growltigga Prime before 12-15 turns have passed!

Back to defence, fighting the AI, I dont defend warp points, I defend planets with weapons platforms, satellites, defensive troops etc, sometimes fighters too if the enemy is using them. Make them a hard nut to crack and also you can continually upgrade your fortresses to the latest tech with your planet and space-based building modules

I do built bases in planetless nexii as you can use these guys as resupply depots (bases have infinite supplies)

Andy Watkins

April 8th, 2002, 10:24 AM

Growltigga,

Thanks for the reply you have raised a few points and I have learnt a few things...

Building empty ships and then retrofitting them. I don't understand this, how do you retrofit or upgrade an old ship??

I am building them and then afterwards scrapping them and building newer models.

I haven't built and spacestations with ship yards near planets at all yet this seems important to you, what do you tend to do with them, I normally have more ship yards than I need because of limited mineral mining.

My one clever thing I am doing which someone here told me to do, I have built two ships with space yard facilities. taken them to a system full of asteroids and am building robo miner equipped space stations over each asteroid. Currently bringing in over 20,000 minerals per turn, probably costing a quarter of that or so in maintenance etc.

Biggest problem I have with fighters and in fact building in general is that I have one space yard on EVERY planet and about 25 planets. Plenty of capacity but it is all over the place so difficult to remember where everything is, particularly when you have to build fighters and carriers on seperate planets and bring them all together

Andy

Growltigga

April 8th, 2002, 10:35 AM

Andy,

To retrofit a ship, highlight the ship on the main system screen, then click on the 'green triangle' like icon on the order bar and this should bring up a list of spaceships in that sector, together with a list of options, the main ones being scrap, retrofit and mothball.

Retrofit allows your ships to be remodelled and upgraded to a different design. The only caveat is that you cannot retrofit to a ship which costs more than 50% of the base design.

So, what does this mean? - as soon as I have advanced military training and have built ship training facilities, I will build light cruisers/destroyers with my current tech. When I have reached a major milestone in tech development, or bump into something 'orrible on the starlanes, I will upgrade my base design to incorporate all new kit and will then retrofit existing ships to that design.

Also, you can swithc designs should you rapidly need escort cruisers or planetary assault ships or whatever

makes repair modules very important

With regard to your management problems, try using waypoints (from the empire status window) for setting where newly built vessels marshal once you have built them, re the rest, it is probably just experience

PsychoTechFreak

April 8th, 2002, 11:22 AM

@Andy, note to retrofits: In simultaneous game you do not get a confirmation in the retrofit screen, you just can see what is going on in the next turn (vehicle retrofit log).

Andy Watkins

April 8th, 2002, 02:09 PM

Growltigga,

Thanks for feedback, this retrofit thing is new to me, I'll have to give it a try in my next game, sounds good.

Your approach of building fighters in one system and carriers somewhere else and meeting up, that's kind of what I am doing just not very efficiently.

Recently I found the "Cargo" sub button on the Colonies screen, this is very useful for scanning through for satellites, troops and fighters you've built somewhere and forgotten to pick up.

I'm winning heavily at the moment, and ALL the other players have gone from firm allies to war overnight. I shall need to build up my forces, secure my frontiers and kick everybodies arse.

I tend to view Research very heavily, I have about 3 times more research points than any AI player.

One of the problems with research is I never really know which one to research to get what I want. There are some obvious ones like "Missiles" but some are less obvious.

If I built 4 base stations above my home planet and set them all building for example fighters, are the fighters stored in cargo on the base station or the planet below?

I am guessing on the base station and you need a shuttle transport to store stuff down on the planet, OR put lots of cargo on the base station.

Presumably all you bother with is a spaceyard module and cargo, not worth trying to arm them??

Andy

Growltigga

April 8th, 2002, 02:49 PM

Andy, the cargo button is very useful indeed!

As all the AI have declared war on you, it sounds like you have gained 'Mega Evil Empire' status. This is a default option which makes every AI irrevocably declare war on you at the same time. It is triggered IIRC when your points get a certain percentage above the points score of the 2nd placed player.

IIRC, you can turn it off by going into the settings.txt file and where it says Mega Evil Empire typing False instead of True - I may be wrong so dont try this uunless one of the modder gurus have confirmed this

Heavy research IMO is a human thing and as to what to research, that is the fun of trial and error

Retrofitting is CRUCIAL - try it out and get the hang of it - you will get whomped without it

Re spaceyards, any units built by a spaceyard will be AUTOMATICALLY stored on the planet, no shuttle transport is needed - a spaceyard built say at a warp point will need internal cargo bays to hold the stuff unless it is launched

Re components on a spaceyard, I just do bridge, life support and crews quarters and 1 spaceyard module, if I am under attack or at war, I may upgrade them to include 1 missile or a couple of point defence cannon - depends what is going on and how I feel - to quote the TV show, the choice is up to you

oleg

April 8th, 2002, 05:11 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Growltigga:

Zumbar or Revolution, Tampopo or any dodgy boozer faraway from Canal Street and you are on - clutch your copy of SEIV gold!!<hr></blockquote>

Zumbar is fine. Tomorow (9.04.02) at 5:30 ?

Cheers.

Growltigga

April 8th, 2002, 05:13 PM

Can't do tomorrow, should be ok for wednesday 10.04 at 5.30-5.45

SEIV gold manual clutched at the ready??

oleg

April 8th, 2002, 05:30 PM

Splendid !

capnq

April 9th, 2002, 12:21 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr> Re spaceyards, any units built by a spaceyard will be AUTOMATICALLY stored on the planet, no shuttle transport is needed <hr></blockquote>This works in the other direction, too; if the planet doesn't have enough cargo space left, but a ship or moon orbiting the planet does, the excess cargo automatically goes wherever it will fit.

[ 08 April 2002: Message edited by: capnq ]

Growltigga

April 9th, 2002, 01:09 AM

Andy, thinking about it, the only tip I can suggest about empire management (and is only a reflection of what I do rather than any right or wrong answer) is to centralise my building programme in each system.

What I mean by this for example is that if I have 3 habitable planets with shipyards in one system, I may use them to build carrier vessels whilst say in another system, the shipyards there will build fighters. A transport will carry the fighters by way of a shuttle run to a central fleet base. The carriers will be instructed to go to that fleet base when built and then you should be able to marry up carrier Groups to their respective carriers.

This is probably inefficient, but it is the only way I keep track of everythig going on round me.

Good luck!

Andy Watkins

April 9th, 2002, 12:11 PM

Capnq & Growltigga,

Thanks as ever. I am very keen on the spaceyards idea, and the cargo transfer sounds really helpful.

Still not tried the retrofitting thing. Will do so shortly.

What about satellites and weapons platforms, can you upgrade them at all or do you just build new ones. I've tried to upgrade a weapons platform and can't find any way of doing it.

Andy

Growltigga

April 9th, 2002, 12:27 PM

Andy,
AFAIK you cannot upgrade satellites, weapons platforms, fighters, troops or any unit (havn't tried drones yet) - you have to scrap and build anew.

I tend not to scrap units unless my player unit limit has been reached. I replace older designs with newer designs and transport the older designs
away from the frontier

Do try retrofitting, it is crucial

Gryphin

April 9th, 2002, 02:56 PM

The other use for opsolette mines and sats (in tactical combat mode only):
Load them on an appropriate carrier deploy them in front on the on comming enemy. Ships and fighters will stop to go after the mines. This gives you you "free" shots at the fighters and ships. If you have missles you can stand off and trash the AI.

[ 09 April 2002: Message edited by: Gryphin ]

Growltigga

April 9th, 2002, 05:16 PM

Gryphin, very sneaky tactic there - I also like the one used in tactical battles where you use a satellite transporter to dump out satellites in front of the enemy and lure him through them - easy way to get a few good licks in

still, it is not very sporting really to use mines and fighters on the AI

Gryphin

April 9th, 2002, 06:07 PM

Your eyes must be getting bleary:
"The other use for obsolete mines and sats "
I have used the Sat method when all of my "Attack" ships were crippled. I tracked down "cornered" and destroyed the Carrier with Sat based weapons.
"Alls fair in lave and war", well, in war anyway.

[ 09 April 2002: Message edited by: Gryphin ]

Andy Watkins

April 10th, 2002, 10:21 AM

Dear all,

I won! beat the lot of them by getting 3X nearest score.

Couple more questions though. I used capital ship missiles and cannons I started the game with the entire game. Advanced to level 5 but that was it.

I developed dozens of other weapons that didn't seem very good so never used them??

Just realised the little green pill shaped anti mater torpedo is actually a direct fire weapon so would have been very good. What about the others??

I've ended up with all types of technology and advances, some I really like and would like to research early in my next game, is there any where you can see which research line you have to take to get a particular advance.

e.g. Advanced military science, what does it give you, how can you retrospectively tell other than write everything down as you go through the game

Andy

Growltigga

April 10th, 2002, 10:34 AM

Andy

Well done, I have never won yet - the cats always beat me.

I see what you mean about technology but if you right click on any tech level, it should tell you what level and equipment you get at that level. IIRC if you right click on advanced military science, it should show that you get ship and fleet training facilities and ship capture tech.

I just go on that basis and if I dont like the tech when I research it, I trade it with the AI for something I do like

Andy Watkins

April 10th, 2002, 11:46 AM

Growltigga,

I presume you have the settings for AI higher than I do? I also got a game where I started with 3 large worlds and they were all in one system, the top left hand corner system of the whole galaxy, which made it easy for me to expand and protect my borders.

Didn't know about the right clicking on tech thing, that's exactly what I was looking for. Can you right click anywhere else useful?

What's this trading tech with AI stuff?? I just set up alliances that includes trade. Can you trade specific things?

Ooh and I retrofitted one ship before I won, seemed really good, much better than scrapping and rebuilding.

I had got right up to Battleship hulls though, do you tend to use cruisers? I noticed the AI seems to use mostly light cruisers plus some cruisers.

Andy

<<Well done, I have never won yet - the cats always beat me.>>

Growltigga

April 10th, 2002, 12:17 PM

I presume you have the settings for AI higher than I do? I also got a game where I started with 3 large worlds

I generally play a large galaxy with medium AI, high difficulty and high bonus. Never started with 3 worlds so dont know what this does.

I also have my own AI house rules, I dont use mines or fighters against them, I dont do massed warp point defences, I always capture planets rather than glass them and I dont use weapon platforms on my habitable worlds (I keep the war in space)

Can you right click anywhere else useful?

this I dont know, I only found out on the tech screen

. Can you trade specific things?

Yep, same place as the propose treaty section, scroll down you will see the propose trade option which tend takes you to the place where you can pretty much trade for everything - I know, I managed to trade my wife for a new set of drills

much better than scrapping and rebuilding.

it is, it definately is

do you tend to use cruisers?

I have a strange view to this and build a balanced fleet. I have the current ships in my current game

9 destroyer squadrons (5 dd's each)
12 cl divisions (2 cl each)
9 cr divisions (2 CR's each)
6 bc divisions (2 bc's each)

4 sector fleets (3 BB's, 3 bc's 6CR 6 CL 8 DD's apeice)

1 home fleet, as per a sector fleet but 6 BB's and 3 DN's

have about 20 assorted transports, satellite deplouerrs, planetary assault ships etc

also have about 12 FG's and spy ships which I use for convoy escorts, spying,

Andy Watkins

April 10th, 2002, 12:38 PM

Growltigga,

How many worlds do you have to support all this? At my height I had 20 or so worlds, though some were a bit naff. My fleet was entirely battle cruisers and battleships and still only numbered about 20 or so ships. I also use 1-2 fleet repair ships with each fleet, these having a repair bay and loads of supply modules. Do you do this or do you build supply modules and repair bays into your larger warships?

What use are the DD's in the later game? They just aren't big enough for anything are they? By the time you've added engines, shields etc will be very little space for guns...

Andy

9 destroyer squadrons (5 dd's each)
12 cl divisions (2 cl each)
9 cr divisions (2 CR's each)
6 bc divisions (2 bc's each)

4 sector fleets (3 BB's, 3 bc's 6CR 6 CL 8 DD's apeice)

1 home fleet, as per a sector fleet but 6 BB's and 3 DN's

have about 20 assorted transports, satellite deplouerrs, planetary assault ships etc

also have about 12 FG's and spy ships which I use for convoy escorts, spying

Growltigga

April 10th, 2002, 12:52 PM

Currently, the Solar Federation has 16 habitable worlds and about another 28 colonies on non-breathable worlds - this fleet is just about breaking even on the budget

I dont use supply models on my big ships, they dont go far and the cruiser divisions are used for long range attacks, I go an enemy system and usew marines to capture a world with a resupply depot and then stage through that until I have quantum reactors which mean maintenance is less of any issue

DD's my boy are hard to hit and a swarm of these fellahs can stop BB's BC's or anything else, especially with the kind of defensive bonuses my chaps have, I also put quantum torpordoes on them - it also means I can keep my bigger ships focussed and use the DD's as screening vessels

Keep in mind that empire economic development is as crucial as military prowess - you could send a personal message to Tesco Samoa and ask him how on earth he gets to fleets if several hundred ships!!

[ 10 April 2002: Message edited by: Growltigga ]

Growltigga

April 10th, 2002, 02:22 PM

THAT'S ABOUT DOUBLE WHAT I HAD BUT I WAS ON SMALL GALAXY MAP

you did well then, the large galaxy map gives me room to breathe

WHY ARE QUANTUM TORPEDOES BETTER THAN ANTI MATTER TORPEDOES, OR STANDARD CANNONS, ARE THE FACTORS HIGH?

quantum torpoedoes are just the next evolution from anti-matter torpedoes in the torpedoes tech

they do do a lot of damage - enough to warm the cockles of your heart and they also dont get stopped by PDC

TINY NON BREATHABLE WORLDS THAT COULD HOUSE 3 FACILITIES WERE LESS THAN USELESS. i NOW ONLY GO FOR BREATHABLE ATMOSPHERES BIG OR BETTER, I.E. 15 OR 20 FACILITIES......

I do that too and only tend to colonize non-breathable tiny worlds if I am well short of resources and need every mineral minor I can get

SORRY FOR USING CAPITALS, DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THE FANCY BOLDING IN A MESSAGE THAT YOU DO!

select and copy the text you want in bold, click on the bold icon next to the instant Graemlins, paste in the text and hey presto, it is bold

Gryphin

April 10th, 2002, 03:04 PM

Small and Tiny Worlds - Uses For:
I use them for:
1) Re - supply depots if they are close to a warp point.
2) Storage on if I find I need it. I only build storage during times of peace or while preparing a large Facilities upgrade or an invasion fleet.
3) Drop off points for reinforcements. I might shuttle troops or other units to that planet from core worlds. These can than be picked up by front line empty Troop / Satellite / Fighter Carriers.
4) Ship Yard Bases / Re supply Bases.
I’ll build a Ship Yard
Build a Ship Yard Base
Scrap the Ship Yard
Use the planet for Mining / Research / Intel or Fleet Training Facilities.
Use the Ship Yard Base for both construction and to re supply ships, (If you “fleet up” with a Base for one turn, it will completely re supply a ship or fleet.
This is not efficient but it works in a pinch and there are a lot of pinches when it comes to war.
5) Oh, and don’t tell the colonist this but I it also makes a good cheep distraction to the AI while I marshal my fleet.

Andy Watkins

April 10th, 2002, 03:21 PM

Gryphin,

Thanks for that.

Is there a patch for SEIV Gold available?

Andy

Andy Watkins

April 10th, 2002, 03:23 PM

Ignore patch question. I have downloaded now

Andy

Growltigga

April 10th, 2002, 03:24 PM

Andy

Link to patch as follows

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/downloads/

Gryph, trust you to have a tactic for "small and tiny"

Growltigga

April 10th, 2002, 03:30 PM

Andy

Actually thinking about it, if the small or tiny world has a high resource percentage in something I need, then I will colonise it and use it as a mining/farming/refining colony (whatever) if I have colonised everything bigger and better in the system

If your spaceport, urban pacification centre, resupply depot etc are elsewhere in the system, I can't see any harm in filling every piece of high value real estate with resource gatherers

Growltigga

April 10th, 2002, 03:42 PM

Andy, also whilst thinking about it, keep in mind that weaponry in SEIV is a lot down to personal choice

Sure, plasma missiles level 5 (top of the missile research tree) are lovely things to have all your ships equipped with but it can be galling to see them rendered ineffectual by some clever sod with DUC's, PPB and severl point defence cannon per ship

Most things either have a counter or balance out - it is like scissors, paper and stones

Andy Watkins

April 10th, 2002, 04:36 PM

Growltigga,

That is my point, I was using ordinary depleted uranium cannon, why are they a threat to plasma missiles? what's a PPB? what is it used for?

I did notice point defence weapons killed my capital ship missiles so at end of game I gave up and used 100% DUC's

I would be interested to hear what the scissor / paper / rock table is for SEIV weapons, many of the weapons just seemed pointless to me..

Andy

Sure, plasma missiles level 5 (top of the missile research tree) are lovely things to have all your ships equipped with but it can be galling to see them rendered ineffectual by some clever sod with DUC's, PPB and severl point defence cannon per ship

Most things either have a counter or balance out - it is like scissors, paper and stones[/QB][/QUOTE]

Growltigga

April 10th, 2002, 04:56 PM

I was using ordinary depleted uranium cannon, why are they a threat to plasma missiles? what's a PPB? what is it used for?

Andy

DUC's aren't a threat to plasma missiles themselves, my point is that if you have an effective counter to a particular weapon, eg point defence cannon are a defence to plasma missiles, then if your ship has DUC's as well as point defence cannon, you are going to whomp the hell out of the bugger with plasma missiles as these wont get through.

Put it this way, a cruiser armed with say 4 plasma missile launchers takes on a cruiser with say 5 point defence cannon and say 3 DUC's. The pdc's are going to take most of the sting out of the plasma missiles and getting close will allow the DUC's to do some damage

DUC's and PDC's generally will cost less research than getting plasma missiles so who wins?

A PPB is a phased polaron beam - you get it when you research phased energy weapons whihch you get on researching physics level 2 - they do good damage, are medium ranged and skip normal shields IIRC - I like them as my principal weapon for close assault vessels

Choice of weapons is down to personal choice - a friend of mine likes graviton hellbores - not bad as close range weapons go but he just thinks they sound good - he still has whomped me a few times
with them

I would be interested to hear what the scissor / paper / rock table is for SEIV weapons,

not sure there is a set list, do any of you smart north americans out there have a list?

capnq

April 10th, 2002, 11:23 PM

Right-clicking on a planet, ship, unit, facility, component, research or intel project will bring up an info box about it. For planets, ships, and units, this is the same box that appears in the upper left corner when you left-click it on the main map. For the rest, it's the same as the item's description in the (F1) Help screen and in the (F10) Log report when you discover it. This is really useful for all sorts of things, like checking the status of individual ships inside a fleet list or on the retrofit screen.

Right-clicking on the Galaxy Map opens a window where you can make notes on each system.

Fyron

April 11th, 2002, 01:36 AM

Colonize every planet that you see. Trust me, it's a good idea.

There is a list of damage/kiloton ratios for all weapons somewhere, but I don't remember exactly where. I will look for it.

Andy Watkins

April 11th, 2002, 01:53 AM

Currently, the Solar Federation has 16 habitable worlds and about another 28 colonies on non-breathable worlds

THAT'S ABOUT DOUBLE WHAT I HAD BUT I WAS ON SMALL GALAXY MAP

DD's my boy are hard to hit and a swarm of these fellahs can stop BB's BC's or anything else, I also put quantum torpordoes on them

BACK TO MY WEAPONS QUESTION - WHY ARE QUANTUM TORPEDOES BETTER THAN ANTI MATTER TORPEDOES, OR STANDARD CANNONS, ARE THE FACTORS HIGH?

Keep in mind that empire economic development is as crucial as military prowess

I NORMALLY SPEND MORE TIME ON ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT THAN MILITARY. i GOT THE IMPRESSION PART WAY INTO THE GAME THAT TINY NON BREATHABLE WORLDS THAT COULD HOUSE 3 FACILITIES WERE LESS THAN USELESS. i NOW ONLY GO FOR BREATHABLE ATMOSPHERES BIG OR BETTER, I.E. 15 OR 20 FACILITIES......

SORRY FOR USING CAPITALS, DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THE FANCY BOLDING IN A MESSAGE THAT YOU DO!

ANDY

Andy Watkins

April 11th, 2002, 09:44 AM

Hi,

I like the sound of this notes on galaxy thing, I'll give it a try.

Right-clicking on the Galaxy Map opens a window where you can make notes on each system

I just started a new game, built space station ship yards, they are great!

Tried building empty DD's and retrofitting them but it said could only increase value by 50% or something so I had to scrap the lot and start again. Disaster!

Andy Watkins

April 11th, 2002, 12:12 PM

Would be interested in seeing that if you find it.

There is a list of damage/kiloton ratios for all weapons somewhere, but I don't remember exactly where. I will look for it.

As for colonising everything, doesn't that give you a major headache protecting all of your colonies??

Andy Watkins

April 11th, 2002, 12:23 PM

Hi,

I set the game to see all tech tree and then exported it to a file so I could go through the whole list. I am trying to work out the best techs to research. Following is my current guess in no particular sequence.

All 3 colony ship types
Ship construction as far as possible, minimum – cruiser
Troops (1 level)
Mines (1 level)
Cargo (2 levels)
Repari (2 levels)
Resupply (2 levels)
Propulsion (level 10 if poss)
Armour (at least level 4)
Shields (as many levels as can)
Sensors (at least 2 levels)
Combat support (at least 2 levels)
Computers (2 levels)
Mineral extraction (3 levels)
Applied research (all 3 levels)
Missile weapons (several levels)
Projectile weapons (several levels)
Torpedo weapons (several levels)
Point Defense (level 3)
Planetary weapons (just level 1)
Ship capture (just 1 level towards end of game)
Troop Weapons (just 1 level)

This is my list of must research technologies, and how far I would bother to go. Have left off fighters and drones, and also left off all the exotic technology like bio and crystalline weapons, don’t know anything about them?

Anyone suggest important ones I have left off, or ones I have that are a bit naff?

Ta

Andy

Gryphin

April 11th, 2002, 02:09 PM

RE: Colonizing every planet;
My own take:
Don’t defend planets. Defend Space. If the enemy reaches your planets it means your fleet has been shredded and you are already history.

RE: What to Study
What you study is a “play style” descision.
Colony types: That is a lot of research points early on. If you are expanding fast enough you won’t need the other types till later when you should be able to Trade for or “Acquire through other means” after meeting the right races.
Ship Capture: If you study this early, you may not have to study shields or as many ships sizes, (and several other techs).

Andy Watkins

April 11th, 2002, 02:36 PM

Dont defend planets. Defend Space. If the enemy reaches your planets it means your fleet has been shredded and you are already history.

I tried that first couple of games I tried but had problem then that enemy ships could move quite fast and would "Shoot past me" and clobber my planets. At minimum you seem to have at least an outer layer of systems that need protecting, this may well be half a dozen or so systems with several worlds in them....

Plus supply, I normally base my ships on planets because of supply. I used to base them at worm holes but then have to remember to keep getting them resupplied.

Andy

Andy Watkins

April 11th, 2002, 05:20 PM

2 extra questions

I use Robo miners on space stations over asteroids. I just read something that gave me the impression I could do the same over empty non colonisable planets???

Can a ship have just 1 shield generator on it or is more allowed???

Andy

Vulture-B

April 11th, 2002, 05:50 PM

Andy,

for the defend space issue, use satellites and mines on wormholes and have a fleet within the system, this works at least as an early warning since it will show up in the log.

yes you can use robominer on planets, best strategy would be if you have two or more planets in the sector, you will deplete the planets. so if you still want to colonize them setup a mil instalation, research or intelligence compound.

if only one component is allowed/effective per it is stated in the information window, so yes you can (and maybe should) use more.

concerning your list of research, there are always at least two ways to one target in this game. military actions, intelligence, trade and research can bring you closer to everything you have in mind.

ru
vulture

Quikngruvn

April 11th, 2002, 06:09 PM

Andy, in your research list, I'd add Advanced Military Science to at least level 4. The first three levels give you ship and fleet training facilities (which are vital to surviving a war). Levels 4 through 6 give Hyperoptics, which can detect cloaked vehicles.

Also, a note about robo-miners: only the miners from one ship are effective in a given sector. But, all the miners on that ship will be used....

Quikngruvn

wr8th

April 11th, 2002, 06:11 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Gryphin:
RE: Ship Capture: If you study this early, you may not have to study shields or as many ships sizes, (and several other techs).<hr></blockquote>

If you have ship capture ability try sprinkling warp points liberally with mines. Any intruding ships that are damaged or incapacitated can be captured, repaired (bring a repair/supply ship) and analyzed for technology....

[ 11 April 2002: Message edited by: wr8th ]

Gryphin

April 11th, 2002, 10:01 PM

Hmm, I guess I have not beatten this to death yet.
<Soap Box>
I don’t use mines but I was wondering:
Let me guess.
A ship enters a mine field and looses all engines.
Since it has lost all engines it can’t use any remaining shields.
Since it has no shields it is easy to capture.

My question:
How much would the following cost you in resources per turn?
The Mines, (once deployed can not be used anywhere else)
The Mine Layer, (specialty ship that drains resources when not in use and will become obsolete as your fleet becomes faster)
The Repair Ship, (is a drain when not in use, granted has other uses when needed)
The fleet to protect them at the Worm Hole while capturing and repairing the ship.

I feel the resources spent on this strategy would be better spent on the best fleet you can build. This will give you:
Much greater flexibility
The ability to move all elements to where you need them.
Retro Fit for all elements
The ability to move elements to the front lines as your empire expands.
You may want to include Satellites. These can be moved when convenient.
</Soap Box>
I guess I'm just too competitive.

capnq

April 11th, 2002, 10:11 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr> Tried building empty DD's and retrofitting them but it said could only increase value by 50% or something so I had to scrap the lot and start again. <hr></blockquote>You can make an intermediate design within the cost limit, then retrofit to that, repeating as needed until you can build the final design you want.

Note that the new design only has to be under 150% of the combined total minerals, organics and radioactives, not the individual totals. <blockquote>quote:<hr> I normally base my ships on planets because of supply. I used to base them at worm holes but then have to remember to keep getting them resupplied. <hr></blockquote>A ship only uses supplies when it moves or fires*; you can park it somewhere indefinitely.

*Or uses a component that uses supplies, such as [edit to correct error] a Cloaking Device.

[ 11 April 2002: Message edited by: capnq ]

Suicide Junkie

April 11th, 2002, 10:29 PM

*Or uses a component that uses supplies, such as Stealth Armor**

** Stealth armor actually uses no supplies.

An energy-field style "cloaking device I" or stellar manipulation component will use a decent amount of supplies.

wr8th

April 11th, 2002, 10:43 PM

Hi Gryphin,

I'm a newbie and was playing the Proportions mod using my "Mine Sprinkles" tactic. The original intent is to make the warp points to my home sytem less than an open door to too-nosy neighbors. I'll use a med. transport and stock up on mines and send it to multiple warp points then restock and repeat. Any ships fortunate enough to survive, I send in a destroyer or three and a heavily armored boarding ship with the repair/supply ship in tow. If the ship is still alive I'll try and stand off and finish it with missiles, then repair and bring back to a base.

I understand your approach though, but the Proportions mod is slower to develop and research doesn't increase as quickly. If I've given bonuses to the AI and research treaties are not forthcoming, this form of flypaper is helpful.

I didn't use this in the unmodded Version.

capnq

April 11th, 2002, 11:17 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr> A ship enters a mine field and looses all engines.
Since it has lost all engines it can’t use any remaining shields. <hr></blockquote>[ Edit to correct info that changed in Gold patch 1 ]Losing the engines won't take out the shields if the ship also has other supply storage. Shields are only active during combat; they don't protect the ship while it's "cruising" during movement, so they don't stop mines or damaging warp points.

The mines might take out the shield generator(s), though.

[ 11 April 2002: Message edited by: capnq ]

[ 13 April 2002: Message edited by: capnq ]

capnq

April 11th, 2002, 11:22 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr> There is a list of damage/kiloton ratios for all weapons somewhere, but I don't remember exactly where. <hr></blockquote>Suicide Junkie's damage Ratings (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/003013.html), about 80% down the page as I type this.

Kynalvarus

April 12th, 2002, 12:29 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Quikngruvn:
Also, a note about robo-miners: only the miners from one ship are effective in a given sector. But, all the miners on that ship will be used....
Quikngruvn<hr></blockquote>

Does this apply to satellites as well? I.e. if you make a large sat with a remote miner will only one work per sector?

Mephisto

April 12th, 2002, 12:39 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by capnq:
No, losing the engines has no effect on shields<hr></blockquote>

This has been changed. Ships and fighters with zero supplies get zero shields.

Gryphin

April 12th, 2002, 01:03 AM

capnq
Thanks for the correction. Means you need to bring something to break down shields.
Oh well, I love the variety of play styles.

Kynalvarus

April 12th, 2002, 01:17 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Andy Watkins:
Dont defend planets. Defend Space. If the enemy reaches your planets it means your fleet has been shredded and you are already history.

I tried that first couple of games I tried but had problem then that enemy ships could move quite fast and would "Shoot past me" and clobber my planets. At minimum you seem to have at least an outer layer of systems that need protecting, this may well be half a dozen or so systems with several worlds in them....

I've found that you have to at least try to hold the warp points, or else you give up several key defensive advantages. These are information, surprise, position, force concentration, initiative, and resource cost.
Presuming you have not been spysatted or probed, that first fleet into your territory has no real idea what might be on the other side of that warp point. Surprise follows from this. When the enemy warps in, they don't know what is waiting for them. If they prepare for every contingency, they need far more ships and tech, and thus time and resources to build up. Also their 'teeth to tail' ratio gets bad and so their maintenance cost per Ship of the Line gets high. Defensive units are maint-free, and bases 50%. If they rush in and hope for the best, then a well-set warp point defense will destroy far more than it cost to build.
Positionally, the enemy must come through a warp point, and so unless they're opening their own you know they have to face at least one of your border warp points. Properly equipped, they can run right by your border planets looking for softer targets. They can also pull nasty tricks like sacrificial plague/smartbomb/radiation hits which screw up the planet and only cost one ship per. If an enemy gets through my warp point in force I usually cut losses, write off the system, and fall back to the next warp point.
In the quadrants I've played there are more planets than warp points in normal planetary systems. At least one of the 3-4 has to point back to more of your space. Usually you'll have two or three to cover, and if you can plan it right, you'll only have one. In any event this lets you concentrate your forces far more effectively than trying to defend each planet. Trying to defend planets, at least in TDM, is IMHO a dicey proposition at best. Small domed colonies just can't hold the weight of gear to deal with even small fleets.
In warp point battles the defender usually gets the advantage, and you start at short range. I love medium/large sats at this point. The +4 range lets them cover the point and often outrange the enemy ships. They can't be targetted by seekers (but can by PD) so they're going to get in at least one shot. I particularly like making 'flytraps' of mines and engine-destroying sats - even when they lose the enemy has to take months to put those engines back together.
Finally, resource cost - units don't cost maintenance, and typically have better damage/cost and HP/cost ratios than ships.

Plus supply, I normally base my ships on planets because of supply. I used to base them at worm holes but then have to remember to keep getting them resupplied.

Andy<hr></blockquote>
Put up a cheap spaceyard base, once you have cruisers to make spaceyard ships. Stick it in any fleet you want refueled and presto, next turn full tanks. If it's a key warp point, make it a battlestation or starbase, add repair bays to supplement the spaceyard, and give it a few minelayers/satlayers/dronelauncher/fighterbays/cargo so that it can build up the defense, and restock after successful defenses. Also give it self-destruct & security stations unless you want your enemy to someday have a forward base with which to kill you. ;-)

Oh, and if you leave out the sensors you just wasted all of your time.

Kynalvarus

Suicide Junkie

April 12th, 2002, 02:46 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>I haven't ever bothered with fleet and ship training facilities, but I get the impression from others these are a must have feature??<hr></blockquote> Given a free +20 attack and defense modifier, yes.
Purchasing that large a modifier in your race characteristics would cost 2000 RP.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>I am trying to use someone elses pictures, (B5 ships) not too bothered about fancy mods etc. Not quite sure how to do it. I have copied B5 pictures into a new race file on the main game in the pictures directory "Earth alliance" it didn't have the 6 or so .txt files so I copied the ones out of "Terran" and renamed them.<hr></blockquote>Yep, that should work.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>What I want to be able to do is start a new game, add a "New" empire, set all the characteristics up how I like but just use the pictures of Narn, Minbari etc for their ships, otherwise standard game.<hr></blockquote>The game might randomly choose one of those shipsets for the AIs, but that usually isn't a concern for people.
If you want to ensure only the original races get added, only add the extra race that you will be choosing. SE4 won't choose a clone of your race for the AI, and once the game is started, you can re-add the other fancy shipsets.

Gryphin

April 12th, 2002, 03:14 PM

Andy and everyone else
Please read all the way through, it has a surprise ending.
Written Thursday, April 11, 2002 3:30 pm plus or minus:
You are definitely correct. Building Ship Yard Bases and use of mines is much easier, (and on the surface cheaper) than Ship Capture and use of Satellites.
It definitely comes down to play style.
Note:
Ship Capture does not cost more in Research Points. The Return on Investment is huge, (based on my experience against the AI). I don’t know how it would play out against humans. I doubt my style will work against humans. Against the AI, (in general), I will not research shields, fighters, mines, or Ship Construction beyond Frigate. I have almost always acquired these by Ship Capture.
If your opponent responds by retro fitting his ships with Security Stations or Anti Satellite weapons, (such as Point Defense Cannons), you have cost him a great deal of time and expense to counter the Satellites and Boarding Parties. With mines, all he has to do is research mines and build a couple of mine sweepers.
Defend Warp Points With Mines and or Bases
This seems to be the favored way to go at least in the early game.
I guess the way a Human vs Human counter is to put mine sweepers with your fleet or as a component on each ship. I wonder what cost more:
Losing ships to an unexpected mine field or
Including mine sweeping with all fleets.
I suspect I am going to find out the hard way.
*********************
Written Friday morning April 12, 2002 7:30
Uh Oh, I did some sketches and ran some numbers. The flaw in my proposed method did not take into account that planets could be on opposite sides of a system and could not be defended by one fleet. As such, an unexpected hostile could Glass / Capture several planets near a warp point before your centrally positoned fleet could get there.
Mines at warp points is the only way to go. < phew > That Hurt! I hate conceding, still it is better than getting womped by GrowlTigga.
I guess I will be trying:
Mine warp points
Include Sattelites
Use Ship Capture
Don’t build bases at warp points
GrowTigga, (or anyone), what do you think?

PS: I appologies if any of my previous post came across in a negative way.

Andy Watkins

April 13th, 2002, 01:28 AM

Defend worm holes not planets.

Comments from all that seem helpful, if I have understood them.....

I can put a fleet on a wormhole indeffinitely, it will not use up supplies until it moves/fights.

I could move a space yard ship to a worm hole, then build a space station with a ship yard in it. Then I could use the space station to build mines, or satellites etc to defend the wormhole.

If I am right this is a lot less trouble than keep building satellites and carrying them around the galaxy.

I just make one cruiser with a space yard, and that goes in turn to every worm hole of importance and builds a space station that then builds it's own defences.

Sound neat??

I like to do my own research, don't really like the idea of disabling ships, capturing them etc. As commented upon it would cost a lot for research etc to do that and it's not my style. Likewise I'm not going to use fighters anymore, too fiddly building carriers and fighters and keeping them alltogether.

I haven't ever bothered with fleet and ship training facilities, but I get the impression from others these are a must have feature??

I am trying to use someone elses pictures, (B5 ships) not too bothered about fancy mods etc. Not quite sure how to do it. I have copied B5 pictures into a new race file on the main game in the pictures directory "Earth alliance" it didn't have the 6 or so .txt files so I copied the ones out of "Terran" and renamed them.

Is that enough?

What I want to be able to do is start a new game, add a "New" empire, set all the characteristics up how I like but just use the pictures of Narn, Minbari etc for their ships, otherwise standard game.

Should I do something different??

Thanks

Andy

capnq

April 13th, 2002, 01:53 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr> I have copied B5 pictures into a new race file on the main game in the pictures directory "Earth alliance" it didn't have the 6 or so .txt files so I copied the ones out of "Terran" and renamed them.
<hr></blockquote> Not having the AI .txt files in the race's folder won't do any harm; if the game can't find one of those files, it will substitute one from the AI Default files.

In fact, deleting those files is the quick way to make older shipsets compatible with Gold. A slower way is to follow the instructions linked in my sig. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Growltigga

April 15th, 2002, 09:51 AM

Defend worm holes not planets.

Andy, the decision on this will come down to your own tactical style but keep in mind, I have always been talking about playing the AI - even the Gold AI on the highest settings is hardly a Sun Tzu - IMHO, defending warp points against an AI opponent is simply unsporting, as is using fighters and mines against them

it would cost a lot for research etc to do that and it's not my style

IIRC, the research cost for ship capture isnt really that much, at least not when you take into account what you can get from it, IIRC you research military science (50,000), advanced military science (100,000) and then ship capture (5000) - about the same as level 3 missiles or decent beam weaponry

"it is not your style" is FAR more important, this is a game, it doesnt really matter if you win or lose as long as you enjoy it

I'm not going to use fighters anymore, too fiddly building carriers and fighters and keeping them alltogether.

Aah, this is just experience my boy, my orbital spaceyards will build the carriers (say 7 turns for a light carrier) whilst the colony world builds the fighters but again, it is down to personal preference, I am currently playing a hotseat game and designing a fleet where almost every ship (CL and above) has at least 1 fighter bay - my fighters are all configured for ship-killing - it is an interesting development in power projection

Growltigga

April 19th, 2002, 05:06 PM

bump, I was enjoying the tactical discussions on this thread

Gryphin

April 19th, 2002, 06:55 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>I was enjoying the tactical discussions on this thread <hr></blockquote>
Ok, here is one:
Armor vs Shields
Which do you develope first?
Against Humans?
Against AI?
Against Humans I will develope Armor only as a rapid way to Stealth Armor.
Against the AI I will always go for Armor because I know I can capture ships with Shields.
One Light Carrier with Shields will give me a huge amount of Tech.

DirectorTsaarx

April 19th, 2002, 08:38 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Growltigga:
<snip>
I'm not going to use fighters anymore, too fiddly building carriers and fighters and keeping them alltogether.

Aah, this is just experience my boy, my orbital spaceyards will build the carriers (say 7 turns for a light carrier) whilst the colony world builds the fighters but again, it is down to personal preference, I am currently playing a hotseat game and designing a fleet where almost every ship (CL and above) has at least 1 fighter bay - my fighters are all configured for ship-killing - it is an interesting development in power projection<hr></blockquote>

Tigga: The other trick is to have your deep colony worlds build the carriers (i.e., 3-4 systems away from the front lines) and build fighters at systems closer to the action. Then, when the carriers are ready, they stop off along the way to pick up fighters. If you time it right, you can even launch the fighters and have them waiting in the carrier's path (my favorite is to stack them over the resupply colony, since I like to "top off the tank" before entering contested systems).

Interesting concept with putting fighter bays on all ships; I've toyed with that from time to time. It's similar to the Hydran race style from Star Fleet Battles...

Gryphin

April 19th, 2002, 08:42 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr> It's similar to the Hydran race style from Star Fleet Battles... <hr></blockquote>
And what the Japeniese were trying to build at the end of WWII.

Growltigga

April 19th, 2002, 09:44 PM

Gryphin, you are dead right

IMHO, fighter bays on each ship (just 1 supported by 1 or more cargo bays) is quite cool. Very Star Wars, very Babs 5

there is not enough threat to have whopping loads of PD, but enough to make a good difference, especially armed up to the tens with FRAMS

Bowmark

April 20th, 2002, 12:37 AM

This thread is one of the reasons I bought this game. A lot of damn helpful people. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I have a few points and a question:

In regard to mines, they are a huge AI killer and I see both points to that play style. I like using them at warp points to slow down the really aggressive AI like the Romulans and Cardassians (if you are using those ships)

I am having a problem with sats though. I did not really use them since the patch but I put cloaking armor on them and after I cloak them, even if I decloak them, they will not attack enemy ships unless there is a ship of mine there too. Any ideas on this one or is there something I do not know about sats?

Fighters are a HUGE bonus to your fleets but you need super amounts of patience to do the whole fighter thing right. I prefer fighters at planets more than than WP because they can leave and attack a ship before it even gets there if needed.

Lots of good tactics here, can't wait to try them out in my next game.

Thanks all.

TerranC

April 20th, 2002, 01:02 AM

They can't attack at WILL unless your ships are there.

Satelites are cheap way to guard your planets early on game. Later on, their lack of space and bonuses that other units have makes them worthless, unless you plan to build them to detect hidden ships.

Although satellites will attack as soon as an enemy ships get in there.

mac5732

April 20th, 2002, 06:31 AM

Andy, defending wormholes is probably the best defense, however, remember if your playing human,and they get the wormhole building/closer, (can't remember names off hand) then your wormhole defense becomes far less affective unless you in turn build the system shield that prevents opening and closing wh in that system. So when playing a human player, you may want to research the shield earlier then if playng an ai

be careful, be very very careful
look to the sky
its "THEM"

just some ideas mac

TerranC

April 20th, 2002, 07:30 AM

Wormhole Builder: Gravitational Quantum Resonator

Wormhome Closer: Gravitational Condenser

Sounds like something outta trek to me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

"Captain! the Gravitational Quantum Resonator has created excess amounts of fictons needed! It's created a gateway to another dimension!"

"Logic indicates..."

"Damn your infernal logic! You're dead!"

oleg

April 20th, 2002, 07:57 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Gryphin:

Ok, here is one:
Armor vs Shields
Which do you develope first?
Against Humans?
Against AI?
Against Humans I will develope Armor only as a rapid way to Stealth Armor.
Against the AI I will always go for Armor because I know I can capture ships with Shields.
One Light Carrier with Shields will give me a huge amount of Tech.<hr></blockquote>

Hmmm, I always develop armour first. The reason is simple: both humans and TDM AI races (medium+ bonus) have PPB at turn 30 or even before. Corresponding phase shields need much more research investment.

Growltigga

April 22nd, 2002, 10:48 AM

Andy, defending wormholes is probably the best defense

And again I would make the point that if you are playing ANY Version of the AI, I would consider it unsporting to use mass warp point defence against them, same reason I wouldn't use fighters or mines - it makes it far too easy

Now against humans, anything goes

Now, just to prove that I have no friends whatsoever (my excuse is that I find it hard to find opponents of my calibre!!) - I currently have a game going where I am playing 2 empires. The game is based in a meld of the Starfire/Startrek universes and I have renamed stacks of components to provide a more Starfire feel. The point of this is purely for me to fight two different play styles at once and Andy, I reccomend you give this a go as I have found it very useful for finetuning my designs

Eg one empire is the Solar Federation,a human empire who build a combined arms fleet with a broadly equal match between missile armed and beam armed vessels -

the other empire is the Khanate of Orion, these boys build weird designs and every vessel has fighters

the punch ups have an interesting flavour to them

[ 22 April 2002: Message edited by: Growltigga ]