Multiplayer RP Scenerio (long)

[Phoenix-D]

Thinking about running a multiplayer role-playing scenerio. The question is, is anyone interested before I go and build this thing?

*Loosely* based on the events in David Weber/Steve White's books Insurrection and In Death Ground.

For those that don't know: In Death Ground was the first book, covering the Fourth InterStellar War against the bugs. The bugs are your sterotypical SF bugs; no respect for their own lives and all. Also completely ruthless, inabile to commicate with other races, and possesing a massive, powerful empire.

Insurrection is the second book time wise. The bugs have been defeated for years, and tensions between the rich inner Terran worlds and the poor Fringe world has come to a head. Civil war erupts.

In the scenerio's timeline, the Civil War breaks out.. and then the _Argive_ stumbles into a Bug system.

Yes, you read that right. The poor old Terrans get to deal with the Bugs and the civil war at the SAME TIME. Or not.. the Bugs may have a turn delay before the attack, giving the Terrans some time to deal with their issues. Assuming the allies don't blunder into them..

Every major race- the bugs, both terran races, the allied races, and maybe a few minor ones- will be represented. They'd all need players- I think I'll be running the Bugs unless someone really really wants that slot. The Bugs are really more of an NPC race; I have to make them powerful for them to display their fleets, but they also have to be STUPID, or the allies will never stand a chance.

The races will have the best aproximate of their respective techs I can give them. Stellar Manip will be disabled. I'm thinking of disabling PD as well. No AIs. Close WPs- yes. (one-way WPs, rather- but maybe, maybe not as the books show them). No drones, no surrender- take them over, blow them away, or force Subjgation. Own score only.

Victory conditions: peace for 1.5 years.

Mod: probably standard SE4 Gold, custom map. I don't want to move it to 1.49 (WP defense issue) but I will if the majority of the players don't have gold.

Interested? Post so, suggestions, and which race you want.

Shipsets?
Terran Core: obvious
Terran Rim: (allied with Core at start) not sure
Terran Fringe: not sure. Using the same shipset would be too confusing.
Bugs: Xi'Chung (organic tech)
Orions: No idea.
Gorm (Orion allies): Drushoka? Can be dropped if needed (propulsion experts)
The bird brains (terran allies): dunno, can be dropped (FIGHTER experts..)
Tangri: Amorki; minor race, can be dropped. Pirates, essentially.

Phoenix-D

[tesco samoa]

I am in.

[Suicide Junkie]

I would like to take the bugs.

It would be my second PBW game, so you don't have to worry about me being using crazy advanced strategies http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Being the bad guys would also take some of the pressure off me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[TerranC]

Kinda sounds like Independence wars, at least insurrection anyways...

If I could I'd like to play the rebels http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Edit: For the shipsets:

Terran 1: Terran
Terran 2: Maybe Sallegans? They look closest to Humans in Standard shipsets, and the ships look a bit shoddy than other races of the galaxy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Bugs: Xi'Chung, or Ukra Tal.
Bird Brains...(?): The Krill?
Orions: Preatorians?

Those are just ideas.

[ 04 April 2002: Message edited by: TerranC ]</p>

[Phoenix-D]

Tesco: you're in. What race?
TerranC: I can't spell that race's name offhand, hence "bird brain". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif They don't look anything like the Krill, though that's the best I've seen so far. For the Orions, the Pratorian shipset doesn't really fit. They look like cats. "Tabbies" or "Whisker Twisters" is the nickname the Terrans give them. Really fond of fighters BTW, though not as good at them as the birds.

A few additions: The resupply tech area will not be allowed. No Quantum Reactors. PD is out- use smaller beam weapons.

SJ: I'll think about it. I have to figure out how I'm doing the bugs first, really.

Some more data on the races, so anyone else interested can pick:

-Terrans (all types): Galaxy's superpower- until the Bugs arrive. Best weapons technology, good R&D. Balanced weapons- energy, missile, fighter. Advanced traits: none. rock/oxygen. Advanced Traits: Nautral Merchants (core). Rebels have slightly better Aggressiveness and Defensiveness due to their more naval background.

Birds: (Opiluchi sp) Galaxy's best fighter pilots. They do look like birds.. big, bipedal predatory birds with hands. (very) Junior partner in the alliance with the Terrans. Small population- dislikes crowding, so no heavily populated worlds. Fighter heavy fleets. ice/oxygen. Racial Traits: whatever racial tree gets the best fighter weapons.

Orions: "Tabbies". Lost the Third Interstellar War to the Terrans. A war right now would come close, but the Terrans would still win. Honor bound culture. Currently allies with the terrans, though not so tight as the birds. Similar fleet as the Terrans, but with more empahis on fighters. rock/oxygen.

Gorm: Heavy-grav world occupants. In a similar situation with the Orions as the birds are with the Terrans, except openly "subservient". Very powerful for a subject power. Mildly telepathic, and a high radiation tolerence that makes their ships the fastest ever built. Bad fighter pilots. Fleet favors close-ranged weaponry. Advanced Traits: Propulsion Experts.

Arachnids/Bugs: Extremely aggressive, xenophobic. Described as a starfish crossed with a tarantula. Views all the other races as cattle (litterally). Impossible to communicate with, thus immune to intelligence actions. Massive fleet; no fighters. Advanced traits: Advanced Power Conservation, Advanced Storage Techniques.

Remeber that you'll be jumping in the middle of all this http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Races available:
Terran (core): available
Terran (fringe/rebels): TerranC
Terran (rim): available
Orion: available
Birds: available
Gorm: available
Bugs: me OR suicide junkie
if suicide gets the bugs, I'll take one of the minor races that aren't listed here, like the Tangri, and/or any race that doesn't get filled up.

Phoenix-D

[tesco samoa]

I'll play the Gorm.


Will there be a history of the game up to that point and some pointers on how each race feels about each other and how to play the race.

I have not read the books.

[geoschmo]

If you need a cat race for the Orions, I uploaded the Leonine to the PBW file library. Someone could use them.

Geoschmo

[Phoenix-D]

"Will there be a history of the game up to that point and some pointers on how each race feels about each other and how to play the race."

Well, the scenerio will include a first-turn "briefing" on the situation. I'll also send the players a more-detailed write up of their race if they request it, assuming we get enough people. It's loosely based on the books but of course once things start, anything goes.

Geo: thanks, I'll check it out.

Races available:
Terran (core): available
Terran (fringe/rebels): TerranC
Terran (rim): available
Orion: available
Birds: available
Gorm: Tesco
Bugs: me OR suicide junkie
if suicide gets the bugs, I'll take one of the minor races that aren't listed here, like the Tangri, and/or any race that doesn't get filled up

So we still need, at the minimum, one more person. I want all the major powers- Orion, Terran Core, Teran Rebels, Bugs- filled before I start. Shouldn't take TOO long to get the scenerio set up, I hope. I'll start making it up tonight, if I have time.

Phoenix-D

[tesco samoa]

phoenix-d sent you private message.

Looks interesting.

I guess I am playing one of the minor powers

[Growltigga]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
PD is out- use smaller beam weapons.
Phoenix-D<hr></blockquote>

Phoenix D, the Starfire timeline did use point defense but to match the values, why dont you double up the hull space used by the pd module

The 'birds' are the Ophuichi (pronounced oh-poo-chee or oh-poo-ki depending on whether you are american or european

to reflect the starfire universe, they should have a small but hi tech industrial base, be carrier driven (fighter gurus) with no other vessels higher than a battlecruiser (so no battleline as such)

the tabbies should be pretty much the same as by the time of the civil war, they were carrier heavy

[ 05 April 2002: Message edited by: Growltigga ]</p>

[Phoenix-D]

"Phoenix D, the Starfire timeline did use point defense but to match the values, why dont you double up the hull space used by the pd module"

The point was doing this WITHOUT a mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif If I do this scenerio with a mod, it'll take longer. Actually, some elements of my current techmod are similar to Starfire- I borrowed the standard missiles, for example. At the current rate it'll take a LONG time to finish though. Techs are in, vehicles are in, I've started on components.. finished missiles, but multi-layered components really, really suck.

Phoenix-D

[Phoenix-D]

First, Last, only bump. Still need one more person minimum here.

Phoenix-D

[tesco samoa]

I picked up 3 of the 4 books this weekend.

I will start reading them when I am finished stalingrad

[Phoenix-D]

Just an FYI, if you're expecting anything other than a shoot em up from In Death Ground.. don't http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Insurrection is slightly better, but IMO they aren't Weber's best work. Still makes a nice setting for this though. Especially since the setting already uses warp points, no workarounds needed.

Phoenix-D

[tesco samoa]

which books by weber do you recommend.

[Growltigga]

Tesco, I personally think Weber's 'Honor Harrington' novels are spiffo - damn fine reads each and every one.

Another couple of books I think are pseudo SEIV in outlook are Niven's 'Motie' books - I think the first was called the Mote in Gods Eye and the second was called the Moat around Murcheson's Eye - really good the pair of them

[Growltigga]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
The point was doing this WITHOUT a mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif If I do this scenerio with a mod, it'll take longer. Actually, some elements of my current techmod are similar to Starfire- I borrowed the standard missiles, for example. At the current rate it'll take a LONG time to finish though. Techs are in, vehicles are in, I've started on components.. finished missiles, but multi-layered components really, really suck.Phoenix-D<hr></blockquote>

Oh right, please accept my profuse apologies. I have spent ages going through my copy of SEIV and changing the names of all the techs to Starfire/BB5 equivalents, for example, APB's are lasers, PPB's are energy beams etc not quite starfire was gives the game the same feel.

I think the SEIV point defence cannon works and gives a starfire-esque feel with regard to both effectiveness and response

[Big Game Hunter]

I'm in... I'm also new. The bird like race is the Orphrichi(spelling). I've read all three of the series. Started with Crusade-Insurrection-In Death Ground-currently reading Shiva Option(part II to In Death Ground). That series of books it what motivated me to purchase SE IV. I will be the Orions(Tabbies) If they are not taken, if so the TFN Corporate worlds fleets. I'm also willing to help out in research or the design process. A friend of mine and I were considering making an StarFire Universe Mod after we became more familiar with game but I ready to go now.

[Phoenix-D]

Growl: IMO the SE4 PD cannons are just too effective, especially en-mass. You can't get a good fighter strike though them with the way the fighter AI works. It doesn't help that they can down a single missile per shot, are smaller than the missiles, and fire faster. I *may* do a small mod for a few things here and there, but nothing massively extensive. It'd mean I would have to run the turns manually on my computer. Not a huge hassle, but it would slow the game down a bit.

BGH: You've got the Tabbies then.

Races available:
Terran (core): available
Terran (fringe/rebels): TerranC
Orion: Big Game Hunter
Birds: available
Gorm: Tesco
Bugs: me OR suicide junkie

The "rim" has been combined into the main body player wise. It didn't go that way in the books, but it means one less player needed.

FYI players I have finals coming up, so if we haven't started before the begining of April we won't until the middle of May. I'm going to start the scenerio building as soon as the new Gold patch comes out (20000 units..mmmmm)

Phoenix-D

[Big Game Hunter]

Ophiuchi-is correct spelling of birds.

[Phoenix-D]

OK players.. the patch for Gold is out. Get it!

I'll begin setting up the scenerio. Unit and ship limits are set to max. May take a bit, because I've got to get a decent map, tweak for effect, and then play EVERY empire into their proper places and starting techs, and create/test the mod listed below.

There WILL be a few minor mods to the data files. The game will run on PBW, but I'll download and process the turns manually. This will slow the game down slightly, and delay the start a bit.

I'll go into the changes in a minute. But first- we still need new players!
Races available:
Terran (core): available
Terran (fringe/rebels): TerranC
Orion: Big Game Hunter
Ophiuchi: available
Gorm: Tesco
Bugs: suicide junkie
If no one else joins, I'll be taking the Terran Core. If one person joins that wants the core, I'll take the Ophiuchi. If TWO people join, I'll be happy and bow out.

Changes include:
-Quasi-newtonian propulsion
-Military and civilian grade engines. The military grade engines are faster, but they are also power hogs compared to the civilian drives. So the civi drives can in the long run go faster in places where resupply isn't available.
-Population size doubled.
-No happyness bonuses for troops (too easy to exploit)
-PD will be made slightly less effective by dropping their to-hit bonus down. AFHAWKs will be added though.
-Standard missiles will be added. Half the range of standard missiles, but much smaller in size.
-FM2s and FM3s added. Rocket Pods renamed to FRAMs. FM2s and FM3s are seekers, FRAMs are direct fire.
-Fighters will be a bit harder to hit
-Gunboats (larger-sized fighters) added. Easier targets than fighters, but they'll pack a mean punch.
-Fighter weapons will be changed. Some weapons will be unable to target ships- fighters and seekers only. Vice versa for other weapons.
-SBMHAWK pods and ABAM pods have been added. These cannot be stored in ships however http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Essentially they are very small hard to hit ships that can only be loaded with a single component. That component will serve as a Master Computer, 1 move engine, and fire a single missile. I recommend that you build these on-site. I need the players to excersise come restraint here- don't put these components on your regular ships. I thought about using drones, but they don't fit the real use of SBMHAWK pods, which is a prelude to a warp-point assult.

Some technologies will be dropped out of the data files because they don't really fit the setting as I see it. The Bugs will have the Organic trait, for example, but it will be re-named and NOT have organic armor. No quantum reactors either.

That's the end of the regular data file changes.
New Racial Trait:
Fighter experts, for the Ophiuchi. Their fighters are faster and their pilots are better. Harder to hit, higher modifers TO hit. No, the Orions don't get any fighter bonuses. They LIKE fighters, but they aren't inherently superior at using them. The Ophiuchi are.

Oh, and I won't be designing the races according to a "fair" point system, rather trying to capture their relative strengths and weaknesses.

Closed warp points: those of you who have read the books know that there is a kind of warp point that is "closed" and can only be seen from one end. You can transit through the "closed" end, but only if you know where it is.

To simulate this, I'll do two things. First, I will make some one-way warp points in the map editor. Second, I'll have an observer ship parked on the enterence to that WP, invisible. When someone transits the closed warp point, the closer ship will close that WP. Then, the next turn, the WP opener ship will make another WP to the original system. The resulting WP may or may not be in the same spot as the original WP exit, and it will be visible to all players.

[tesco samoa]

looks good. I am looking forward to playing the game.

Hey Big Game Hunter. WE're Allies.

[Big Game Hunter]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Hey Big Game Hunter. WE're Allies.

<hr></blockquote>

Yep

[tesco samoa]

I am starting to guess that I am playing one of the weaker races. Is this true? I do enjoy a challenge.

[TerranC]

I think I am the weakest.

I don't like the Terran Core, that means I don't like their allies, and then I don't like the bugs as they try and try to wipe me out...

We Colonials and Fringe folks are just suicidal aren't we? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Phoenix-D]

At the start of the civil war, every race is officially neutral. Yes, even the Ophiuchi. The scenerio will start about two months into the war; no Bugs on the scene yet.

Tesco: your race is essentially subserviant to the Orions. There's a nice quick summery somewhere in On Death Ground, but I don't remember exactly where.

Phoenix-D

[Phoenix-D]

OK, this is going to take a bit to set up. Finals.

Phoenix-D

[tesco samoa]

that's ok. good luck.

[geoschmo]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
There WILL be a few minor mods to the data files. The game will run on PBW, but I'll download and process the turns manually. This will slow the game down slightly, and delay the start a bit.
<hr></blockquote>
If you have the mod, I can put it on PBW so you don't have to run turns offline.

Geoschmo

[Phoenix-D]

Don't have it yet.. haven't built it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Didn't really want to bug you for a mod that's really only a single-game thing.

Phoenix-D

[tesco samoa]

what do you take again Phoenix-D

[Sinapus]

Nit: The Orions didn't lose the 3rd Interstellar War, the Rigelians did. If you want some extra work, you can always put a single world in some remote system with ships blockading it to represent the few survivors of that race. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Hm. For the Gorm, I'd make them a different atmosphere from the Orions and Terrans, to simulate the effects of their heavy-world origins. (In Starfire, they breathe oxygen but in Terran and Orion environments they require a compressor to match the air pressure differences.)

Pity the Shiva Option can't be used as a game effect. (Why yes, I hope the Arachnids are blown to smithereens, thank you.) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Horrified Realization: This Civil War will happen while Ivan Antonov is still alive?! Eeeeeeeeeeee.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[Phoenix-D]

OK, so I got my wars mixed up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The gorm will be different atmosphere. Probably CO2. Haven't decided what to do about the birds yet..maybe yet another atmosphere change.

"Horrified Realization: This Civil War will happen while Ivan Antonov is still alive?! Eeeeeeeeeeee...."

Yes, yes it will http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Anyone have anything approaching a map? In Death Ground has some, I think Insurrection has a few, but I'm not 100% sure on the details of which important system (all others get whatever name SE4 gives them) is which.

tesco: If no one else joins, I'll be taking the Terran Core. If one person joins that wants the core, I'll take the Ophiuchi. If TWO people join, I'll be happy and bow out.

[geoschmo]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
Don't have it yet.. haven't built it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Didn't really want to bug you for a mod that's really only a single-game thing.

Phoenix-D<hr></blockquote>That's not a problem. I got DSL so I can be much more efficent at working on these things now. About the only thing I would stay away from is a mod that gets changed all the time.

Geoschmo

[tesco samoa]

That question was for the final's

[Phoenix-D]

tesco: oh http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

at the moment I'm taking ASL I and a few other clases.. ASL is the problem child. 20 minute presentation, interview, AND a final. Ug. All in the next few weeks. So I'm not really in the mood to spend what little free time I have left working on a mod or scenerio.

Phoenix-D

[tesco samoa]

ASL as in American Sign Language ??

[Big Game Hunter]

If we're playing during the "Insurrection" timeline, Ivan "The Terrible" is dead.

[Growltigga]

Phoenix,

Having seen the level of changes you are proposing to 'mod' this game, why dont you just prepare a Starfire mod ?

I agree with a lot of what you were doing on the modifications. I like the idea of changing the emphasis on the point defense so that, for example, it can massacre seekers as useful but is less effective against fighters - you can then build a specialised "Di" style point defense battery which goes the other way

....and then you can start implementing the 'missile box' technology from the Crucian Star Empire!!

[Sinapus]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
OK, so I got my wars mixed up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The gorm will be different atmosphere. Probably CO2. Haven't decided what to do about the birds yet..maybe yet another atmosphere change.

"Horrified Realization: This Civil War will happen while Ivan Antonov is still alive?! Eeeeeeeeeeee...."

Yes, yes it will http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Anyone have anything approaching a map? In Death Ground has some, I think Insurrection has a few, but I'm not 100% sure on the details of which important system (all others get whatever name SE4 gives them) is which.

tesco: If no one else joins, I'll be taking the Terran Core. If one person joins that wants the core, I'll take the Ophiuchi. If TWO people join, I'll be happy and bow out.<hr></blockquote>

The Ophiuchi, Orions and Terrans can use the same life support, they just are uncomfortable in other races's preferred climates.

"The Shiva Option" has a map of the battle area in the book, and maybe at Baen Webscription's entry for it. I'll have to check.... and yes it does have maps of the area in "Chapter 37".

[Phoenix-D]

"Having seen the level of changes you are proposing to 'mod' this game, why dont you just prepare a Starfire mod ?"

Because I don't want to go any further than I have to http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif That and I don't have a lot of info on starfire other than the books anyway.

Phoenix-D

[Growltigga]

oh right, well I have all the rulebooks and unfortunately, dont have the technical ability to 'do' the mod

[Growltigga]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
[QB]Quasi-newtonian propulsion
-Military and civilian grade engines. The military grade engines are faster, but they are also power hogs compared to the civilian drives. So the civi drives can in the long run go faster in places where resupply isn't available.
-PD will be made slightly less effective by dropping their to-hit bonus down. AFHAWKs will be added though.
-Standard missiles will be added. Half the range of standard missiles, but much smaller in size.
-FM2s and FM3s added. Rocket Pods renamed to FRAMs. FM2s and FM3s are seekers, FRAMs are direct fire.
-Fighters will be a bit harder to hit
-Gunboats (larger-sized fighters) added. Easier targets than fighters, but they'll pack a mean punch.
-Fighter weapons will be changed. Some weapons will be unable to target ships- fighters and seekers only. Vice versa for other weapons.
-SBMHAWK pods and ABAM pods have been added. These cannot be stored in ships however http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Essentially they are very small hard to hit ships that can only be loaded with a single component. That component will serve as a Master Computer, 1 move engine, and fire a single missile. I

Fighter experts, for the Ophiuchi. Their fighters are faster and their pilots are better. Harder to hit, higher modifers TO hit. No, the Orions don't get any fighter bonuses. They LIKE fighters, but they aren't inherently superior at using them. The Ophiuchi are.
<hr></blockquote>

Phoenix D, can you send me a PM with how you have made these changes?

Cheers

[Growltigga]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
[QB]Quasi-newtonian propulsion
-Military and civilian grade engines. The military grade engines are faster, but they are also power hogs compared to the civilian drives. So the civi drives can in the long run go faster in places where resupply isn't available.
-PD will be made slightly less effective by dropping their to-hit bonus down. AFHAWKs will be added though.
-Standard missiles will be added. Half the range of standard missiles, but much smaller in size.
-FM2s and FM3s added. Rocket Pods renamed to FRAMs. FM2s and FM3s are seekers, FRAMs are direct fire.
-Fighters will be a bit harder to hit
-Gunboats (larger-sized fighters) added. Easier targets than fighters, but they'll pack a mean punch.
-Fighter weapons will be changed. Some weapons will be unable to target ships- fighters and seekers only. Vice versa for other weapons.
-SBMHAWK pods and ABAM pods have been added. These cannot be stored in ships however http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Essentially they are very small hard to hit ships that can only be loaded with a single component. That component will serve as a Master Computer, 1 move engine, and fire a single missile. I

Fighter experts, for the Ophiuchi. Their fighters are faster and their pilots are better. Harder to hit, higher modifers TO hit. No, the Orions don't get any fighter bonuses. They LIKE fighters, but they aren't inherently superior at using them. The Ophiuchi are.
<hr></blockquote>

Phoenix D, can you send me a PM with how you have made these changes?

Cheers

[Phoenix-D]

Growl, finals. I haven't DONE it yet. I'll send you a copy when I'm finished. None of it's out of the realm of the possible, it just needs to be done and made sure it isn't totally unbalancing.. something I haven't had time for.

Sorry guys http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif It'll get done eventually.

Phoenix-D

[Phoenix-D]

New plan: mod would take too much time, we're using Proportions 2.1. Any objections?

Phoenix-D

[PirateRob]

I have a Starfire Mod in the works.. its currently at Version 0.10 and in the testing phase. So far, the changes are pretty simple. Here is the short list.

1. Slightly modified vehicle sizes to match Starfire (10kt = 1 hull space)
2. Using a modified Version of Quasi-Newtonian movement. Big ships need more engines to move 1 space. Ships still have a built in Speed Limit but its dependent on hull type. IE: Escorts can move 8 spaces... Super Dreadnoughts (Base Ship) moves 4
3. Renamed a lot of the weapons to starfire equivalents. Example: Anti-proton beams became Force beams, etc. The basic properties of the weapons remain unchanged though. This is to preserve balance and not mess up the AI too much.
4. Changed the emphasis on ship building from ground based facilites to space based facilites. This MIGHT mess up the AI.. I will know after testing it.
5. Modified a FEW of the components.. mainly to give the Laser Cannon (meson bLaster) shield skipping ability. The Energy Beam (phased poleron beam) now skips armor instead of shields. To compensate for lasers, players now get Armor at the start of the game. Players should have shields by the time they they research Energy beams. All the weapon Groups remain the same though so the AI should just pick up the new weapons without modification. Research AI might need a tweak to emphasize armor a bit more since lasers are a common weapon.

I havent actualy REMOVED any of the SEIV technologies yet but I suggest playing with the Stellar Manipulation and Stellar Harnessing techs turned off in the game setup. Those two techs are Starfire busters. The Quantum Reactor has been disabled as well.. Actualy did that by reducing the maximum tech level of Resuply tech to 4.. quantum reactor is 5. The AI should handle that just fine. Master Computers are now a racial specific tech limited to the Cybernetic Race trait. All normal races will need to have REAL crews http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Eventualy Im going to add Starfire Races.. and along with that I will be adding some new racial traits.. Cybernetic Race (for J'Rill) Fighter experts, etc... Havent delved into that yet though. Then I might play around with changing all the tech areas and components to better reflect the Starfire Technology tree. (as seen in Starfire 4th ed.) That will definitely require a complete overhaul of ALL the AI files... not a small undertaking Im afraid http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Im going to see how "Stafire Like" I can get the game without modding the AI's... or with VERY MINIMAL AI mods..

Currently, my Starfire Mod is based on the TDM Modpack v3.10 I used TDM as a starting point with the idea that the better AI's in that modpack would handle the changes better than the standard AI's. We will see. I also like the additional shipsets http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (Klingons are my favorite)

So far, all my mods are to files in the "Data" directory. TDM does not mod those files so there should be no conflict. I should be able to release an Alpha Version very soon.. this weekend I think. I will NOT be including the TDM modpack in my release though.. I will just be releasing the "Data" subdirectory...

Rob

[Phoenix-D]

If you did QNP, you HAVE to rework the AI no if ands or buts. At least with something like the AI Patcher.

Phoenix-D

[PirateRob]

Yup, have to mod the AI to handle ANY kind of variable engine scenario. Now I just need to figure out how to get it to work OK.. I looked at the QNP mods in the Pirates & Nomads mod.. and tried that. I quickly found out that the AI puts the minimum number of engines on a ship to start.. then ADDS engines in a random fasion. This is BAD since you end up with Battleships that cant move (they take more than the minimum number of engines to move) or you end up with NO ship designs because your min engine number is too high (so the AI cant make small ships)

The only solution looks to be to have an entire entry in the AI_DesignCreation file for EACH HULL SIZE to account for the different engine requirements of each size range. What a pain.. I think the Starfire mod just lost its Newtonian movement system... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif for now. Dang.. and that so neatly solved the engine damaging weapon problem.. you know, the one where a destroyer loaded with engine damaging weapons could immobilize an entire fleet of Dreads without breaking a sweat.. since each ship only has 4 to 6 engines REQUARDLESS of size... what a crock.

Rob

[Phoenix-D]

Oh and if you're expecting major accuracy on this.. don't http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif The map editor is just too tedious for that, so I'm playing fairly fast and loose (besides, I don't have data for like 95% of the systems anyway).

Phoenix-D

[Chrowl]

Hi all, I'm very new to the game (not the genre) and am a long-time fan of the Starfire series (both paper play and fiction). I would be very interested in joining your game as the Ophiuchi. My reason being, I am not experienced in PBW, I am not experienced with Strategic combat (or simul. mov.) yet, and I am just getting ready to explore the awesome sounding Proportions mod. I wouldn't want to hamstring the war effort too much when my carriers start ramming Arachnid cruisers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . Seriously though, If your timetable is to start in mid-May, then I might have enough under my belt to at least keep the fighters flowing.

To get the story straight, this will be an alternate timeline where the fringe rebels from the Federation before first contact with the Arachnids correct? Wow.

I have two other quick questions. Will the Ophiuchi still get a fighter bonus with the Proportions Version? and can foreign fighters launch from allied carriers?

Oh, I have an extensive Starfire system map .bmp somewhere. I'll see if I can't dig it up and send it along.

One more thing, wouldn't drones make awesome stand-ins for Arachind gunboats?

[Phoenix-D]

grr. I tried to post earlier, but it ate it.

You've got them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Interesting idea on the drones..

"To get the story straight, this will be an alternate timeline where the fringe rebels from the Federation before first contact with the Arachnids correct? Wow."

Specifically what happens: first contact is delayed, so the Federation doesn't have the "pressure release" of the Arcachnid war, and the civil war boils over early. The scenerio starts one month after a sucessful nuclear strike on Galloway's World- all the units that would rebel have done so, but the fringe is still unconcentrated. Meanwhile, First Contact with the bugs hasn't happened. Yet.

"I have two other quick questions. Will the Ophiuchi still get a fighter bonus with the Proportions Version? and can foreign fighters launch from allied carriers?"

Yes, and no. I've got a couple surprises I'll throw in with PvK's permission. I need to find out how to manage two empires at once on PBW, for one.. if I can't, the closed warp points go down the toilet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Phoenix-D

[Skulky]

If there are any more spaces left i would love to join as a small neutral or pirate empire that woudl just sit by and add diplomacy and other stuff to the game

chocolatefro@angelfire.com

[Phoenix-D]

There aren't any small.. hmm. I suppose I could make up the Tangri. They IIRC a slight annoyance. Pirates with delusions of grandure from what I can tell.

Phoenix-D

[Sinapus]

I just had an idea for simulating military vs. commercial drives. Use the solar sail for commercial drives and combat movement ability for the military drives.

[Phoenix-D]

PvK already has efficent vs normal engines in his mod. The efficent engines have much better "gas milage" but produce less overall thrust.

Phoenix-D

[Phoenix-D]

The game will probably start about the time PBW gets moved and back ready to go, from what I can tell.

Phoenix-D

[AJC]

One way to deal with the engine damaging weapons is to make the engines regenerate. Basically self repairing systems. In a cybernetic mod I have created (but never posted) - engines regenerated 2 points each- and were a bit tougher in order to absorb the damage. the end result was a ship could get hit by ionic weapons and still move- unless it was hit with overwhelming fire power..

here is an extract from my mod,

Name := Ion Engine IV
Description := Standard Ion Engine for sub-light inter-system travel. Nano technology incorporated into the engine enable self repair.
Pic Num := 9
Tonnage Space Taken := 10
Tonnage Structure := 25
Cost Minerals := 300
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 70
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base\Drone
Supply Amount Used := 10
Restrictions := None
General Group := Engines
Family := 9
Roman Numeral := 4
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Propulsion
Tech Level Req 1 := 3
Tech Area Req 2 := Cybernetic Technology
Tech Level Req 2 := 4
Number of Abilities := 4
Ability 1 Type := Standard Ship Movement
Ability 1 Descr := Generates 1 standard movement.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 1
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Supply Storage
Ability 2 Descr := Can store 500 units of supply.
Ability 2 Val 1 := 500
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Movement Bonus
Ability 3 Descr :=
Ability 3 Val 1 := 0
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0
Ability 4 Type := Armor Regeneration
Ability 4 Descr := Regenerates 2 points of damage per combat turn.
Ability 4 Val 1 := 2
Ability 4 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

[ 30 April 2002: Message edited by: AJC ]</p>

[Chrowl]

Hello again, I've a few more questions and comments regarding this up-coming game (I can't wait).

&lt;LONG POST ALERT!&gt;

My main question is, How exactly does PBW work? Do you sumbit a turn a day or do you all pre-arrange a suitable time and play through as many turns as possible? I searched on it but "PBW" turns up a lot of irrelevant hits.

Secondly, how do you go about setting up this kind of game? Is there a scenario editor that allows you to place and populate colonies and such? I think I heard you (Phoenix-D) mention that you play each empire into position? That can't be right...

What sort of tech level will the players be starting at? Will new techs be available for discovery during the course of the game? Any specific exclusions (I think you mentioned a couple before).

As for comments, I had a few thoughts about some things that seem applicable to the game situation. Feel free to reject any of these as irrelevant or ignorant as I am still very new.

Role-Playing: It goes without saying for this type of game, but players who are at all familiar with the circumstances surrounding ISW-4 KNOW what we're in for. Since I believe you said there will be a short calm before the swarm (ha! get it?) the non-civil war races shouldn't start building up for the invasion on turn one or making other such preparations. Also, I might suggest slight alterations in the points of contact (if you were going to be that specific), I and also I'm sure Big Game Hunter, are familiar with both books covering this and would be hard-pressed to not (even subconciously) exploit that knowledge.

Finally, I have a few suggestions regarding empire set-up, but I can e-mail those to or PM you later. I don't mean to step on your toes or anything since I'm sure you have a pretty fair idea of how you want this all to run (and I've been playing all of 3 weeks), but I get a lot of time to think on the subway and have just come up with a few ideas that I thought might be cool. Anyway, thanks for listening and I look forward to your reply.

[Phoenix-D]

"My main question is, How exactly does PBW work? Do you sumbit a turn a day or do you all pre-arrange a suitable time and play through as many turns as possible? I searched on it but "PBW" turns up a lot of irrelevant hits."

http://seiv.pbw.cc Essentially it does all the work that the game host would need to do in a play by email game. The turns can be sent in anytime, and it can be set to go to the next turn if a player takes too long.

"Secondly, how do you go about setting up this kind of game? Is there a scenario editor that allows you to place and populate colonies and such? I think I heard you (Phoenix-D) mention that you play each empire into position? That can't be right..."

It is. Patience and lots of it. The map editor helps.

"What sort of tech level will the players be starting at? Will new techs be available for discovery during the course of the game? Any specific exclusions (I think you mentioned a couple before)."

Don't know, yes, yes. Excluded: quantum reactors, drones (probably), emergancy resupply, solar sails (NOT panels).

"Role-Playing: It goes without saying for this type of game, but players who are at all familiar with the circumstances surrounding ISW-4 KNOW what we're in for. Since I believe you said there will be a short calm before the swarm (ha! get it?) the non-civil war races shouldn't start building up for the invasion on turn one or making other such preparations."

Actually there's a built in excuse for this. I have an event happening that will take care of some problems, and make most empires mighty parinoid..

"Also, I might suggest slight alterations in the points of contact (if you were going to be that specific), I and also I'm sure Big Game Hunter, are familiar with both books covering this and would be hard-pressed to not (even subconciously) exploit that knowledge."

Maybe, maybe not. The exact system configurations will be different, but probably not the points of contact. OTOH, I may have a few NEW points of contact..

"Finally, I have a few suggestions regarding empire set-up, but I can e-mail those to or PM you later."

Email! Email!

"I don't mean to step on your toes or anything since I'm sure you have a pretty fair idea of how you want this all to run (and I've been playing all of 3 weeks), but I get a lot of time to think on the subway and have just come up with a few ideas that I thought might be cool. Anyway, thanks for listening and I look forward to your reply."

Go ahead and send it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

[Sinapus]

Possible role-playing hazard: the Orion player must use his race's actual name in diplomatic communications. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

["The Zheeerlikou'valkaaaneee... *cough* *gasp* *need oxygen*"]

[Big Game Hunter]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Sinapus:
Possible role-playing hazard: the Orion player must use his race's actual name in diplomatic communications. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

["The Zheeerlikou'valkaaaneee... *cough* *gasp* *need oxygen*"]<hr></blockquote>

I am quite fluent in the tongue of tongues...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Cylapse]

Ok, before I start to read this entire thread - Has this game started yet? I been wanting to jump into an RP game and wanna ask that question before I start the long process of reading this thing *lol* Im sure my question will be answered as I read, but I appreciate any insight. Thanks.

[Phoenix-D]

No, it hasn't started. ATM on in the process of building the map for the scenerio. Then I'll start playing the various empires into position. All the 'major' empires are taken, though I suppose I could stick a one-system neutral or pirate here and there..

Phoenix-D

[Sinapus]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Big Game Hunter:


I am quite fluent in the tongue of tongues...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif <hr></blockquote>

Good. Luckily, the Bug player has the easiest. Just type unintelligible garbage to anyone foolish enough to send a message to him. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Phoenix-D]

Some background posted in another thread:

http://www.starfiredesign.com/starfire/index.html
If you want to know about the history and the races read this link
http://www.starfiredesign.com/starfire/encyclopedia/index.html

At the FTP site you can get a copy of the starfire tech tree.
ftp://ftp.localhost.com/pub/starfire/

zIt all started around 1976.. amazingly enough I still have all the original micro games plus 2nd edition.


Phoenix-D

[Big Game Hunter]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Sinapus:


Good. Luckily, the Bug player has the easiest. Just type unintelligible garbage to anyone foolish enough to send a message to him. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <hr></blockquote>

Right or reply with this "-------"

[tesco samoa]

So I have finally read up on the Gorm. They look like an intersting play.

Is the description from http://money.cnn.com/2002/04/30/news/enron_lay/index.htm

an accurate description of how each person should play there races???

[AJC]

Hey Pheonix - I feel like am going insane - do you remember where you got my Starfire links post from? I could have sworn I posted it in this thread since I was so fascinated by this StarFire Rp idea... I would have loved to have joined in - but I was too late to the dance ....


<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
Some background posted in another thread:

http://www.starfiredesign.com/starfire/index.html
If you want to know about the history and the races read this link
http://www.starfiredesign.com/starfire/encyclopedia/index.html

At the FTP site you can get a copy of the starfire tech tree.
ftp://ftp.localhost.com/pub/starfire/

zIt all started around 1976.. amazingly enough I still have all the original micro games plus 2nd edition.


Phoenix-D<hr></blockquote>

[Phoenix-D]

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=23&t=005437

looks like there's enough people that want to try it out to get a SECOND game going once I get this finished. No pressure LOL.

Phoenix-D

[AJC]

THANK YOU ! argh... anyway - I am considering creating a starfire mod also - I have already incorporated some of the sf tech into my cybernetic mod.

I am really interested in joining the next game.

[Phoenix-D]

Actually, I've kind of lost interest in actually PLAYING this game, so if anyone wants to take over the main Terran Federation, you're welcome to http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Also, in light of the concerns about exploiting prior knowladge and the general !@%!% of the map editor (to say nothing of my own lack of good info) I'm dropping all but a few custom systems from the map. Namely, the home systems.

Oh, and I found a way to impliment closed warp points easily, so expect some sprinkled around (actually expect a lot sprinkled around). It's not without it's cheating risks, but oh well. If they're THAT lame..

Current race status:
Terran (core): available
Terran (fringe/rebels): TerranC
Orion: Big Game Hunter
Ophiuchi: Chrowl
Gorm: Tesco
Bugs: suicide junkie

Phoenix-D

[ 08 May 2002: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]</p>

[Dan]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Phoenix-D:

Current race status:
Terran (core): available
Terran (fringe/rebels): TerranC
Orion: Big Game Hunter
Ophiuchi: Chrowl
Gorm: Tesco
Bugs: suicide junkie

Phoenix-D

[ 08 May 2002: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]<hr></blockquote>

I'm wondering about the Thebans (how would those Samurai sleds be done?) and Rigelians. It would add more players and flavor to the game.

Dan

[Phoenix-D]

I don't think either would add much, since they're both basiclly single-system move-and-you're-dead conqured races by the time the scenerio starts.

Phoenix-D

[TerranC]

What's the status so far on the Scenario?

[Phoenix-D]

Map essentially finished; mod in-progress.

So far I have the some of the special Bug traits done and the Ophiuchi traits done. If all goes well, I'll have the mod (of proportions 2.2) done tonight or tommarrow. Then I start playing things into position.

Should be ready about the time PBW comes back up, if they stick to their original estimate (1 week).

EDIT: hmm. Hit a small sticking point. I need names for the leaders, and I can't find any.

Phoenix-D

[ 08 May 2002: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]</p>

[Growltigga]

Phoenix D, the names of the leaders are probably tricky to pin down - as I recall, they were as follows

The Gorm had no overall Il Duce leading them but had an "Assembly of 200" and then an executive 'Council of 20". No use to you I guess but their main admiral in the Khanate-Gorm war was "Force Leader Hanaku"

The Opuichi also had no single individual granted with the executive mandate. One of their admirals was called 'Admiral Haraanaatha" is that helps

The Khanate is easier. Khan Lihaarnow (ie Lihaarnow the Great) would be your main man
(I dont know who the Khan was at the time of Insurrection and the Bug War)

You will need to read the books to find out who led the Coreworld and Fringe elements of the Federation as I cannot recall

Hope this helps

[tesco samoa]

Are the Rim by thenselves ??? or part of the core?

[Chrowl]

Tesco,

I think that the Rim was originally separate, but was combined with the Core (or 'rump' if you prefer) due to lack of players. Maybe Phoenix will reconsider this point since we've had a surge of interest.

Phoenix,

I guess you've finished with the map, but I still have the complete Starfire map if you're interested. It's on an un-integrated hard drive so it might have to wait until the weekend though. Perhaps you could use it for any future games? Also, if its not too late, I think I'd like the Amon'krie (green fleet I think) for the OADC.

[Phoenix-D]

"I guess you've finished with the map, but I still have the complete Starfire map if you're interested."

In SE4 format? I have a map of the regions in question, but it's system names and relations only. No data on what's IN the system, and frankly the map editor is too much of a pain to build more than a few systems by hand. Hell, I'm not even doing most of the warp points that way! I'm just using my GM race to open/close warp points where needed.

I'll use the Amon'Krie for the birds, then.

Yes, the Rim was combined with the core. If someone wants them, I'll see if I can work them into things.

Phoenix-D

[tesco samoa]

I was just wondering since i am reading the books now. I am still in the first one. I am enjoying it. Only humans so far and 2 mentions of the orions and a couple of passing comments on the 3rd interstellar war.

[Phoenix-D]

Current status update:
Mod finished. Map finished. Playing the empires into position.. and MY is this a PITA.

Anyone want the Terran Federation? Still open.

Phoenix-D

[Growltigga]

I'll take the Terran Federation if no one else will

[Phoenix-D]

Ooo good! OK, all slots filled now. That solves one of my problems..

Terran (core): Growltigga
Terran (fringe/rebels): TerranC
Orion: Big Game Hunter
Ophiuchi: Chrowl
Gorm: Tesco
Bugs: suicide junkie

playing the races into position now. Sorry for all the delays..

Phoenix-D

[Phoenix-D]

*sigh* I'm sorry guys. This just isn't going to work.. I royally underestimated just how difficult this is.

Playing every race's turn is bad enough, but I'm looking at three or four HUNDRED turns here. Restarting every 5 turns or so because SE4 doesn't like being opened at shut repeatedly on my system.

I tried to speed it up by increasing production, reproduction, engine speed, etc.. but I keep running into Range Check errors and having to turn the avantage down. Still looking at way too much time; SEV would be out by the time I got this finished.

All talk and no walk I guess http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Once again, I'm sorry.

Phoenix-D

[TerranC]

The important thing is that you've tried, tried then tried again and finally accepted that this way off just like the Omnimod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

No biggie http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

*Gives a big round of applause to Phoenix*

[ May 19, 2002, 22:56: Message edited by: TerranC ]

[PDF]

Phoenix, did you post the mod/map/scen you planed to play ? Perhaps someone else can take on the flag ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Phoenix-D]

uploaded it; check the data files forum as this one is barfing on my link.

The unfinished Starfire Scenerio. This is a modifed Version of Proportions 2.2. I asked PvK earlier if posting this on PBW would be OK; hopefully that also applies here.

You need Proportions 2.2 to use this, as I've deleted the pictures to cut down on download time. Just copy the pictures directory over from Proportions 2.2. Do NOT overwrite any of the files in the planets directory; they're needed for the closed warp point.

this isn't much useful on it's on, posted by request. Will not be updated nor supported, and I'm not 100% sure the new elements are balanced correctly.

Includes:
-map (sf2e is the one I intended to use, after manually opening some more WPs with the GM race)
-new techs: Allied Tech, OF, Bug Engineering/Weapons, Gunboats.
-modifed the racial traits to better represent the Bugs and Opolichi populations.
-.EMP files for all major races plus the "GM" race; text used for description is from the Starfire website.]

Phoenix-D