Neural Net and Talisman - a question

[jim]

I know that the Neural Net allows every ship in a fleet to use the experience stats of the best ship in the fleet.

I know that the Talisman allows every hit to score. I also seem to note behavior among weapons platforms that suggests that only one WP on a planet needs the Talisman to give them all the 100% to hit chance. It may also be the case for satellites, but I do not use them enough to really tell. (One of my handicaps to the AI non-Gold is to always be the Last player so satellites at Warp points are useless for me.)

My question is if the Talisman's mechanics uses an approach (out of sight in the game engine) that acts like verrrry high experience for to hit probability. In other words, does the Neural Net on one ship in a fleet allow it to access the Talisman on another ship in the same fleet for to hit chances?

[Master Belisarius]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by jim:
My question is if the Talisman's mechanics uses an approach (out of sight in the game engine) that acts like verrrry high experience for to hit probability. In other words, does the Neural Net on one ship in a fleet allow it to access the Talisman on another ship in the same fleet for to hit chances?<hr></blockquote>
Nope. The Neural Net only will transfer the experience of the more experienced ship into the fleet, to all the other ships inside the ship. Nothing more, nothing less.

[oleg]

Originally posted by jim:
I know that the Neural Net allows every ship in a fleet to use the experience stats of the best ship in the fleet.

I know that the Talisman allows every hit to score. I also seem to note behavior among weapons platforms that suggests that only one WP on a planet needs the Talisman to give them all the 100% to hit chance. It may also be the case for satellites, but I do not use them enough to really tell. (One of my handicaps to the AI non-Gold is to always be the Last player so satellites at Warp points are useless for me.)

My question is if the Talisman's mechanics uses an approach (out of sight in the game engine) that acts like verrrry high experience for to hit probability. In other words, does the Neural Net on one ship in a fleet allow it to access the Talisman on another ship in the same fleet for to hit chances?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SE IV treat stack of units (weapon platform on planet, stack of satelites, stack of fighters) as one "ship". This is why you need only one RT to get the benefit for all units in stack.

I wonder, why there are no small talismann for fighters ? AFIK, most fighter pilots (just like any person involved in life-threating activities) have some sort of lucky talismanns with them.

[Wardad]

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
Nope. The Neural Net only will transfer the experience of the more experienced ship into the fleet, to all the other ships inside the ship. Nothing more, nothing less.[/QB]<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">??? Please explain ... what your trying to say. ???

[Wardad]

Originally posted by jim:
...(One of my handicaps to the AI non-Gold is to always be the Last player so satellites at Warp points are useless for me.)...<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In strategic combat the defender goes first. It took a revision or two before it was fixed. Strategic is how PBW is done. Use the combat replay to check it out.

Tactical, Tactical-Auto, and Simulator is done differently.

[Master Belisarius]

Originally posted by Wardad:
Please explain ... what your trying to say. ???<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'll try...
Premises:
1) You have a ship with 50% of experience (Legendary).
2) This ship have the Neural Net device.
3) You have a fleet with green ships (without training or experience).
4) All the ships inside the fleet have the Neural Net.

If you join the ship with the 50% of experience to the fleet with green ships, then, at the next turn ALL the ships inside the fleet will have 50% of experience.

[Master Belisarius]

Originally posted by Wardad:
In strategic combat the defender goes first. It took a revision or two before it was fixed. Strategic is how PBW is done. Use the combat replay to check it out.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I must disagree!
In all of my 1.49 multiplayer games (Lastest pre gold Version), ALWAYS the first player had the first shot.

[ 09 May 2002, 18:22: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

[Bman]

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Wardad:
In strategic combat the defender goes first. It took a revision or two before it was fixed. Strategic is how PBW is done. Use the combat replay to check it out.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I must disagree!
In all of my 1.49 multiplayer games (Lastest pre gold Version), ALWAYS the first player had the first shot.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I believe Wardad was talking about the latest 1.67 Gold.

[ 09 May 2002, 19:03: Message edited by: Bman ]

[PvK]

Originally posted by oleg:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jim:
[qb]...
I wonder, why there are no small talismann for fighters ? AFIK, most fighter pilots (just like any person involved in life-threating activities) have some sort of lucky talismanns with them.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just waiting for someone to mod it, although it would be pretty annoyingly powerful, since it would transfer to all fighters in the same tactical group, so even if it were as expensive as it should be (very), then players would be rewarded for building monster fighter stacks... kinda gamey/annoying, IMO.

As for ship neural net, it doesn't train the untrained ships; it just gives them an effective experienced equal to the highest trained still-existing ship in the same fleet. If that ship dies or breaks formation, neural net ships in the same fleet will fall in effective experience to that of the new most experienced in the fleet (tactical group).

PvK

[eorg]

or breaks formation, <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i think this should be wrong

[PvK]

Maybe not strictly when it breaks formation, but when it leaves the fleet group (like if it gets crippled)... but maybe I'm wrong...

[eorg]

Originally posted by PvK:
Maybe not strictly when it breaks formation, but when it leaves the fleet group (like if it gets crippled)... but maybe I'm wrong...<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">what if i have 2 fleets in this battle? net should enhance both fleets :)

[Master Belisarius]

Originally posted by Bman:
I believe Wardad was talking about the latest 1.67 Gold.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok. But Jim in their original post, was talking about pre-gold AIs.

[jim]

Of course, as I had said, I was referring to the non-Gold Version of the game. In that Version, the player order dictates the combat execution order.

If I have it right, every ship in a fleet that has a Neural Net gets to use the experience stats of the best, most-experienced ship in that same fleet. That is, the experienced ship that is lending its stats to others does NOT need the Neural Net.

The reason for the original question was to explore the possibility that the 20 kt difference between Talisman and the NN might be aboe to be used otherwise. Also, Talisman ships might be preferred ships to capture so that a non-Religious race could use NN to gain that perfedt hit chance.

[Wardad]

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bman:
I believe Wardad was talking about the latest 1.67 Gold.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok. But Jim in their original post, was talking about pre-gold AIs.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oops. I didn't play Simultaneous turn or PBW until GOLD.
I thought another older thread said it was fixed b4 Gold. oops.

[Suicide Junkie]

You may notice that the absolute maximum to-hit that you can get from experience is 99%
The talisman gives you 100%. That tells you these two effects are quite separate, since the experience is applied before the total is capped at 99%, and the talisman applies afterwards.

[PvK]

Originally posted by georgig:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by PvK:
Maybe not strictly when it breaks formation, but when it leaves the fleet group (like if it gets crippled)... but maybe I'm wrong...<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">what if i have 2 fleets in this battle? net should enhance both fleets http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, I think I was wrong now. The ability has no description, but I checked the component and it says, "This ship gets an experience level as high as any of your other ships in combat."

So, if this is accurate, then fleets have nothing to do with Neural Nets.

I don't think Fleets have anything to do with Talismans, either. Fleet experience is different from ship experience, which is different from an ability of a single ship to always hit thanks to a talisman.

So, the only way I would expect the talisman effect to spread to other units, would be if you modded its ability onto a fighter or satellite or troop component, in which case the unit group would probably always hit even if it had only one.

PvK