I got the Monster Blues.

[Taz-in-Space]

Has anybody else that downloaded the Devnullmod Mod had trouble with those darn Space Monsters?

I finally downloaded the Mod with monsters and started a game. Well as luck would have it, I was placed close (2 systems away) from the monster homeworld. Before I knew it I was knee deep in tiny and small monsters. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
I managed to fight off those (with loss of a few colonys) and was congrating myself when I was attacked by even larger ones...
Well, I must admit that a fleet of SEVEN monsters glassed my homeworld. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif
After a few more battles, I am now down to a few colonys in system farther away from the monster homeworld. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
Anybody ever beat those monsters?
How can they build so fast? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[PvK]

They're simply MONSTROUS, huh?

[Taz-in-Space]

Late breaking news: I just tried to resettle my homeworld...fleet strenght: 1 colony ship,2 transports filled with weapon platforms and satellites,10 destroyers,2 frigates. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
As I entered the system saw 1 large dragon,2 squid
and 1 huge worm. (worm 10mt http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif )
Fleet destroyed dragon and 1 squid enroute and settled planet. losses: 1 frigate and 2 destroyers killed. 3 destroyers damaged.
WORM SPOTTED HEADING FOR PLANET!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
Worm reached planet but wouldn't attack! (ran for corner) Fleet did not engage. (scared to!!!)
Worm then destroyed planet with planet destroying weapon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif Planet in bits!!!
Remainder of fleet retreats in disgrace. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
I SAY AGAIN, DID ANYBODY EVER BEAT SPACE MONSTERS?

[dogscoff]

Haven't beaten them yet, but soon will. I intend to detonate their home systems in a few turns=-)

I was lucky and started on the opposite side of the map. All the AIs have gone MEE on the monsters and have formed a massive alliance against them.

I've found that the monster PD can be fairly easily overwhelmed using external mount missiles. Once you get to about cap missile IV you can out-range them as well.

Oh, and watch out for monster intel, it gets really irritating...

I've yet to take on a worm, but I've seen the design and they look practically untouchable... thousands of shield points, thousands of armour points, regeneration ability... maybe with a few massive mount WMGs, but I think I'll just vapourise their homeworlds and watch them starve when their maintenence is cut off:)

[Growltigga]

Monster Blues??

[cue muddy waters guitar riff]

Da da da da dum

I woke up d'is morning

Da da da da dum

My woman was dead

Da da da da dum

Monster came down d'at ol' chimney

Da da da da dum

And bit off her head

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Growltigga:
Monster Blues??

[cue muddy waters guitar riff]

Da da da da dum

I woke up d'is morning

Da da da da dum

My woman was dead

Da da da da dum

Monster came down d'at ol' chimney

Da da da da dum

And bit off her head<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Man, you got some serious skill there man.......Ok, well I lied, you don't, but I tried to be nice! But please, whatever you do, don't quit your day job!!! lol http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Just had to bug you about that one.

[PDF]

For an easy game,
Play the monsters ... (and look at their techs !!) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Growltigga]

Ragnarok, many thanks for those kind words.

I hope that your haemorroids fail to clear up and that that annoying rash you have had behind your knee develops into something horribly unhygienic and smelly.

As my Morroccan chum Mustapha would say, "may the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpits"

[ May 17, 2002, 17:10: Message edited by: Growltigga ]

[Rollo]

"Anybody ever beat those monsters?"

Yes, I did beat them. Okay, I admit that it might be easier for me, because I created them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif .

Taz,
did you change the base cost for monster tech to 150k or 200k like I suggested in the Devnull and Monster threads? Or did you play with the unchanged value (50k) as in the download. From what you describe (worms flying around while you have frigates and destroyers) it sounds to me that you are playing with the original settings. The settings in the download are too small and the monsters will advance too fast. Sorry, that is my bad http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif .

I would be interested in what kind of setup you used (number/size of start planets, race points, tech cost, AI bonus) and by which turn you spotted the worms.

"How can they build so fast? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif "

They "cheat" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif .

"I've found that the monster PD can be fairly easily overwhelmed using external mount missiles. Once you get to about cap missile IV you can out-range them as well."

Yep, missiles are good against monsters.

"Oh, and watch out for monster intel, it gets really irritating..."

Yeah, they are not supposed to do that (see other thread). Sorry about that. I'll fix it.

"I've yet to take on a worm, but I've seen the design and they look practically untouchable... thousands of shield points, thousands of armour points, regeneration ability... maybe with a few massive mount WMGs, but I think I'll just vapourise their homeworlds and watch them starve when their maintenence is cut off:)"

I have killed two or three worms using different tactics. It takes a good fleet of (very roughly) 20 battleships or 10 Superdreadnoughts to kill a worm. One of my Favorites is the "Zap Brannigan Tactic" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (not exact quote: Under my command there are only suicide missions):

SPOILER
P
O
I
L
E
R

It takes 2 or 3 "Zap Brannigan" Class Superdreadnoughts (each carrying 5100 "ready to die" space marines, -&gt; 51 boarding parties V) and a fleet of Shield Depleting ships. Lower the shields of the worm and send the marines in. The marines will overcome the "immune system" of the worm and trigger the self-destruct. The self-destruct, however, will not completely destroy the worm, but "merely" cause 10k damage, so you need more than one ship. When the worm is badly damaged you can finish it with whatever other weapon you have brought along. Because the marines will not destroy the worm in one take, I will lower the amounts of immune systems for the worm in the next Version of the monsters. After that 4100 marines (that can be fit into a Dreadnought) will be enough to trigger self-destruct.

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

END OF SPOILER

Hope you like the monsters anyway, even though they are tough to beat. They provide a different challenge. In my game I had finished the monsters by turn 280. Now I am facing a massive Viking empire with a score of 8.5M. That is something that would have not come to pass, if I wasn't so busy dealing with the monster threat.

Oh, BTW Dogscoff, the monsters will not have maintenance problems if you destroy their worlds. Each monster will not cost, but produce resources. However, the monsters (unfortunately) will become inactive, I think, and just sit in space after their worlds are destroyed.

Phew, long post...

Rollo

[Taz-in-Space]

Rollo, I did use the default Monster tech setting as you surmised. As for my settings...Hmmm...Large galactic edge galaxy,Me - Monsters - and about 10 other empires,hard AI,low AI advantage,the rest standard. I encountered the first tiny monsters in about 15 - 20 turns, maybe less. The worm was about 80 turns in.
I think I will modify the monsters as you suggested since I used all my tricks (even tactical combat) and only delayed the monster horde. (That or give myself a Sphereworld start! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )


Can't spell worth a darn...

[ May 18, 2002, 06:30: Message edited by: Taz-in-Space ]

[jimbob]

I'm really looking forward to playing this mod, monsters from space! How can you beat that?!

Oh, and speaking of beating that, what Version should we download for the changed research and intel values, thereby making the monsters (potentially) beatable?

[Taera]

Eh, so bad i dont have Gold. Only the monsters itself, from what i read here, are making it worth to buy the game. I would, if i could (lol).

Is there any Version for the classic SE?

[Rollo]

Originally posted by jimbob:
I'm really looking forward to playing this mod, monsters from space! How can you beat that?!

Oh, and speaking of beating that, what Version should we download for the changed research and intel values, thereby making the monsters (potentially) beatable?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Version 1.61 (or later) of the Devnull Mod. You can find it here. (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=50;t=000002)

Rollo

[Rollo]

Originally posted by Taera:
Eh, so bad i dont have Gold. Only the monsters itself, from what i read here, are making it worth to buy the game. I would, if i could (lol).

Is there any Version for the classic SE?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nope, sorry. The Monsters were made for the Gold Version, but I bet someone could make a Monster Mod for classic SE4. If anybody is up to it, just copy/paste/change anything you like. Drones would have to be removed of course.

Rollo

[Taera]

I might try, if you dont mind.

[Rollo]

Originally posted by Taera:
I might try, if you dont mind.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In fact I would welcome it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . Let me know if you need any hints.

Rollo

[Taz-in-Space]

I decided to try to be a monster. (If you can't beat them...join them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )
Anyway, I am having a fairly good time actually.
But you must really load up the AI advantages.
I used Hard AI, Max AI advantage,all computer vs human setting,5000 point AI's vs 2000 point Monsters,No tactical combat,no colonizing for Monster race(it is possible).

[Puke]

Originally posted by Taz-in-Space:
I decided to try to be a monster. (If you can't beat them...join them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )
Anyway, I am having a fairly good time actually.
But you must really load up the AI advantages.
I used Hard AI, Max AI advantage,all computer vs human setting,5000 point AI's vs 2000 point Monsters,No tactical combat,no colonizing for Monster race(it is possible).<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">how do you do the no colonizing thing (except for not building colony ships)? im guessing that even with the hardest AI (I think Tampa Gamer made a mod a while back that gave AIs huge cultural modifiers in all categories, i still have it somewhere) you would dominate as monsters.

you can sector cloak your home planet, and even other sectors if you dont let the AI design and build all your ships for you. as long as you controll your own ships, you should be able to attack with coordinated fleets of worms once you have built up, and there is no fear of reprisal since the AI probably wont get it together to blow up your sun, and you should be able to stop them if they try.

now if you refrained from building sector cloaks, it might be harder. if you scrapped half of your monster habitats, it might almost be fair.

[Taz-in-Space]

The no colonizing is just not building colonys.
I also will build no vehicle that the AI design minister doesn't design for me. So far it has made a few dumb moves - example is designing base spaceyards without any spaceyards!! Unless the design minister designs some with spaceyards in them I will only have my one planetary spaceyard. It's keeping my output of monsters limited to one per turn!
I recently lost 9 tiny monsters to a homeworld defence force, so I am collecting a full dozen for the next strike. Maybe I will eventually have an easier time once I get larger monsters.
(yes I do have giant size ones, but so far the minister only created 'mine layer' ship not an attack one. - another dumb decision?)
I agree without these artificial limitations I would wipe the galaxy clean too easy!

[Rollo]

Hi Taz,

re: base space yards - see my answer in other thread

re: "mine layers" - you probably mean mine sweepers, no? That will make sense when you play against the monsters.

Thanks for all the feedback. Keep it coming.

Rollo

[Rollo]

Oh, and BTW: be a man and play against them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif .

I suggest the following setup: one average start planet, small galaxy, three to four other handpicked AI, high difficulty, low or medium AI bonus, 2000 or 3000 race points.

With more than one start planet it is probably a good idea to further increase the cost of monster tech. You can do this in .../Devnullmodgold/data/techarea. Monster tech is the Last entry in this file.

Have fun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ,
Rollo