Trade Federation Role Play for Neutral non AI Player [Archive]

Gryphin

June 7th, 2002, 08:27 PM

The purpose of this thread is to discuss the various aspects of a non AI player acting as the leader of the "Trade Federation"
This Role would be as:
Swiss Bank, Broker, Negotiator, Scrap Dealler, Resource Storage, Arms Dealler, and who knows what else.
I posted an early Version of my ideas in the "extremely silly quesiton" thread.
Above is a refined Version. Here is a link to the same one at my web site. I will update it as ideas come in here or email.

http://www.windingstream.com/se/trade_federation.htm

I'd like to thank dmm who came up with the idea for the "Trade Federation". Since it was his idea, I asked him if he would like to start the thread or if he minded if I did.

Gryphin

June 7th, 2002, 08:28 PM

Trade Federation? Ideas for SE
I. Purpose:
a. To trade / sell Resources, Technology, Intel, Ships etc to / with other races.
b. To store Resources at a fair, ”Storage Charge”
c. To be “Gifted” ships that have run out of resources.
II. Racial Makeup:
a. Ancient Race
i. Would give knowledge of the Quadrant.
ii. Would give knowledge of “Ruins”
1. These could be Exchanged
b. Traders = Gives 5 percent more Trade Revenue
c. Political Savvy - As many points as possible
i. Would Increase Revenue from Trade
With those settings and 5000 Racial Points there are 1500 points left over. This allows some customizing for the FT player
III. Possible Rules:
a. May not initiate war
b. Can cancel treaties with other races for any reason
c. Can refuse to deal with races
d. Can refuse any Trade
e. Can apply a ”Storage Charge” up to 2 percent per month. (Just a random number pulled out of thin air) Ideas Anyone? On what the “fair ”Storage Charge” would be?
f. Would be allowed to colonize and develop any planet that had Ruins on it.
g. It could not claim the system. FT could Sell the planet if it chose to.
i. An agreement to return the existing population to the FT or pay for their “Consulting services” on a planet.
ii. Restrictions to this may be: Planets in question could not contain: Mining, Intel, or…. Ideas Anyone?
h. When Gifted ships that have run out of supply
i. An additional “Covering Cost” may be charged to cover the expense of Retrieving or destroying the ship in question.
ii. Ship could also be Traded or Sold to another race “As Is” or after repair.
i. FT could act as a “Broker”, (for a charge of course), in trades between two untrusting races.
i. It would be gifted the items in question
ii. Only pass them on if it was correct.
j. FT could maintain a “Repair / Refuel” fleet of “Tenders”
i. They would go to a “Gifted” ship
ii. Repair or refuel
iii. Gift it back.

Some thoughts:
This looks like it will be a lot of actual “Spread Sheet” work for the FT player.

More ideas anyone?

Batman

June 9th, 2002, 11:00 PM

Sounds like the Bentusi from Homeworld/Homeworld Cataclysm.

The Bentusi were nomadic (I think); maybe your Trade Fed should be too.

Also, the Bentusi were near unattackable but had a very detached, serene demeanor. Maybe something that should be encouraged for the TF?

dmm

June 10th, 2002, 08:43 PM

Lots of good ideas. Would allow very quick exploration of galaxy if you could pay the TF to allow your ship to refuel at TF planet/base. Maybe you would have to "gift" it to TF (along with payment), who would fleet it with a base to refuel it, then "gift" it back.

Actually, I wish you could make agreements with a player to allow refueling or safe passage for a specific ship/fleet. This would be more realistic. As it is, you have to get a Military Alliance, which gives total access to each other's space -- something you both are usually opposed to. So the TF helps with this.

dmm

June 10th, 2002, 08:48 PM

I think only the "storage charge per turn" would lead to spreadsheet. You could make it instead a one-time charge per storage transaction. Then you just have to add and subtract from player and TF accounts, which you could do with pencil and paper.

The main thing that TF needs is galactic email to set up deals.

Gryphin

June 11th, 2002, 02:23 PM

dmm and folks,
A one-time charge would be easier.
It would still be nessasary to track who gave how much.
I guess it would be up to an agreement between the FT and all of the players how much detail to track.
I will implement this and see how it works.

Update:
So far with my “Assistant” playing the FT and 1 Race while I play two races the FT is able to stay ahead of the curve. For the most part she is learning a lot about the game and how to use a spread sheet.

geoschmo

June 11th, 2002, 02:49 PM

I have lost track of the previous thead you all were discussing this in, so sorry if I am repeating something someone else has already said.

Another useful service the TF could provide would be repair/upgrade services for ships that are not near a space yard. This would have the side benefit of being a way for the TF to accquire tech as the contracting race would need to supply the TF with the technology so they could repair/upgrade the components on the ship.

This of course could present problems with Racial techs, unless you devise a way that allows the TF to have access to all the racial traits. It might be possible by allowing them to spend 5000 racial points at startup, and decreasing a lot of the other characteristics. The other players would still be limited to 2 or 3 K, whichever the game is set to. If this doesn't work you can use mod files at startup for this, or use a mod that allows racial tech to be gifted/traded/stolen, but not researched.

Is the idea that the TF would be super powerful to prevent attack, or just make it economically stupid for another race to attack them?

Geoschmo

Gryphin

June 11th, 2002, 03:48 PM

geoschmo,
You need never apologies to us. Without you, I’d still be losing to the Phong, (Ok, I still lose to the Phong but not as often).

“Another useful service the TF could provide would be repair/upgrade services for ships that are not near a space yard. This would have the side benefit of being a way for the TF to acquire tech as the contracting race would need to supply the TF with the technology so they could repair/upgrade the components on the ship.”
Great idea, this will be implemented.

In terms of Racial Traits it could be premised they are beyond the capacity of the TF to research. It would be a “Limitation”.
I guess others could mod it but it is beyond my ability.
Anybody?
Repairs could be made to standard items such as Engines so the ship could get back to base. The other option would be to Gift a ship with Repair Bays to the race in question. The Service Ship would be gifted back

Artificial Rules Section:
It would be an understanding by all players not to attack the Trade Federation.
All races would be required to Gift FT Comm Channels to all races they make Contact with regardless of Treaty status =>. “Non Aggression” treaties to be established => Reduce / avoid accidental combat

geoschmo

June 11th, 2002, 04:38 PM

Ok, here is my suggested racial setup for the Trade Federation. This can be done with no mod files, but it requires 5000 racial points. You don't have to have a 5000 point racial game though. You set the racial points to what you want in game settings, add in all the players to verify they haven't exceeded that, and then you change the racial settings for the game to 5000 and add in the Trade Federation race.

Advanced Traits:
Natural Merchants, Advanced Storage Techniques, and ALL FIVE racial tech traits.

Physical Characteristics:
Physical Strength - 50% The Trade Federation will not make war. If attacked it will use it's considerable economic influence to bring the other empires of the galaxy to it's defense.

Intelligence - 50% The Trade Federation will not need to research, as it will accuire technology though trade and gifts frmo the other races of the galaxy.

Cunning - 50% See Strength

Environmental Resistance - 50% The only negative effect this will have is on reproductive rate, which will not be an important factor fot the Trade Federation.

Reproduction - 91% The Trade Federation will have colonies all over the galaxy, but not very many. Their object is to have widely dispersed cololonies. Population levels are not important. But if additional population is needed they can be accquired from other empires.

Happiness - 110% Needed to offset the lack of ships and defenses the TF will have. Plus, wouldn't you be happy with all that money? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Aggresivness and Defensivness - 75% for both. See Strength

Political Savvy - 123% This is their bread and butter.

Vocational Aptitudes:

All of these at 100%, except Refining at 99% because I needed 25 more points.

Of course this is just my suggestion. I also suggest they be a race that breaths the none aptmosphere. This will allow them to maximize the use of the moons for their outPosts, which seems appropriate IMHO.

In fact I think it would be appropriate that the TF player strive to achieve a widely scattered "empire" of tiny planets, moons and bases in strategic locations and abandon their homeworld. Or at least get to the point where the homeworld becomes unimportant to the survival of the TF overall. This will be their greatest defense against attack. Since no one will be storng enough to attack them everywhere at once and wipe them out before political pressure of the other empires can be brought to bear.

Of course there will come a point in the game where one empire may get strong enough that he is immune to this pressure and thus can pressure the TF. But that's life. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Geoschmo

geoschmo

June 11th, 2002, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by The High Gryphin:
Artificial Rules Section:
It would be an understanding by all players not to attack the Trade Federation.
All races would be required to Gift FT Comm Channels to all races they make Contact with regardless of Treaty status =>. “Non Aggression” treaties to be established => Reduce / avoid accidental combatI would be more flexible on these points personally. Allow players to be hostile if they choose to the TF, but if they so choose they will have to face the consequences of their actions. Either by loss of TF services, embargo, or outright military intervention of the other empires.

I would also not require races to gift the TF contact to everyone. Let them bargin with this if they prefer. It is a valuable commodity. Let them sell this access if they can get a price for it. The TF will be attempting to reach every other race but it will take some time. This is one way races could get an advantage over each other by interfering in this process.

Sure the races that start next to the TF would have an early advantage, but this advantage would not Last all that long and wouldn't be all that great becasue the TF would be starting out at the same tech level as the other races. And the TF could pressure them to allow the access to be granted as well.

Would make the game a little less passive, a little more interesting. IMHO

Geoschmo

[ June 11, 2002, 15:55: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Gryphin

June 11th, 2002, 05:17 PM

Good point Geoschmo,

Optional Artificial Rules / Game Mechanics Section:
< See my post of “June 11, 2002, 14:48” >

<See Geoschmo’s post of “June 11, 2002, 15:46:” >

Gryphin

June 11th, 2002, 05:18 PM

A controversial idea: (Spawned by the other threads on the subject)
Would players be allowed to “Surrender” or “Gift” their empires to the Trade Federation? This has a lot of implications.

geoschmo

June 11th, 2002, 05:33 PM

I would think no, but I guess it would be something the players in the specific game should decide. That would be a way for empires to "bow out" without changing the balance of power tremendously for the remaining empires. The TF would of course be free to sell some of these planets to the attacking race who caused the race to surreder, or simply put them up on the open market. Doesn't really fit the TF profile though to keep them. Well maybe a few. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

My impression of this is that the TF either has no real game winning objectives, or at least doesn't have the same objective as the other races. They are there to assist in making the game more interesting for the players, and hopefully interesting for the TF player. Like a "Dungeon Master" sort of, but with less control of course. Otherwise it will be tough to find people willing to do it. A lot will depend on the person and how well they can get "in character" of the TF and avoid taking a personal interest in the conflicts going on around them.

Geoschmo

Gryphin

June 11th, 2002, 06:11 PM

Folks would say I have been role playing since, well let's not go there.

Have to put surrender options into the "Optional Rules" section.

Victory for me would be: "Too Have Fun"

geoschmo

June 11th, 2002, 06:33 PM

Ok, well I finally found the original thread. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=005791

I think maybe I have missed the point with my Posts here. I was leaving out the factor of the scarcity of minerals. Is that to be a huge factor? That would require some modding to acomplsh, but not a tremendous amount. The settings.txt file contains the values for planets. You could very easily tweak that and then all planets would be scarce in minerals. Then simply make the resource converter a racial tech that only the TF has access to, and suddenly they control the means of production. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

With my suggestions the TF would have what to offer? I guess later in the game it would be a source of technology. It could also be good for fast acquisition of funds or ships in case a war breaks out. Repayable at with interest of course. And a method of disposal for ships that are damaged, depleted and out of range of assistance. That would require time for TF to get it's infrastructure in place though.

They could also construct and sell various racial technology ships and planets that players may consider valuable.

And without modifying the resource model that does leave being hostile to the TF as an option. In the original idea that would be economic suicide as you could not build or support any ships without the minerals provided by the TF.

Geoschmo

[ June 11, 2002, 17:34: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

dmm

June 11th, 2002, 06:51 PM

Geoschmo,
I'm glad you "missed the point" with your earlier Posts. It allowed you to come up with some more good ideas. I never thought of giving the TF all of the racial traits. (So, they are what? empaths?) That opens a lot of possibilities. So you could buy ships (at a high price) with racial tech that you don't have. What a nice surprise for your opponent!

The scarce minerals idea was a way to force players to deal with the TF rather than just ignore them. If players don't deal with the TF on a regular basis, then the person playing the TF is going to get very bored.

dmm

June 11th, 2002, 07:16 PM

I originally thought of the TF as an ancient race or as a multi-national trade conglomerate. So I had the game starting with the TF already spread out over the galaxy, one planet per system, with lots of storage III facilities. And I made them "non-attackable" to prevent people from getting pops of TFs, planets full of resources, planets with resource converters, etc. Especially if you start the TF out in one spot, you have to have something to prevent someone from taking them over right at the beginning. Perhaps with the upcoming patch you could give them race-specific weapons platforms, really cheap, with super bonuses.

geoschmo

June 11th, 2002, 07:22 PM

(So, they are what? empaths?) That opens a lot of possibilities. So you could buy ships (at a high price) with racial tech that you don't have. What a nice surprise for your opponent!Yep, and you could contract with the TF to build racial facilities on you planets. Temporal vacation facilities, organic gestation vats, psychic training facilities. Since these are all things that you cannot accquire the tech for unless you have that racial trait, they would provide a steady flow of trade bait for the TF.

Of course players can do that without the TF, but there isn't always an empire with that tech handy, and you may not be on good terms with them of course. A player might hesitate to provide these items to another that might turn on them later. But the TF would not have such political considerations, only whether or not it was a good deal.

I don't know what you would call the TF. Empaths is as good as any. Since for the most part they wouldn't be researching but accuiring technology through other means, you could just say they were master traders.

Geoschmo

[ June 11, 2002, 18:23: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

geoschmo

June 11th, 2002, 07:30 PM

Originally posted by dmm:
I originally thought of the TF as an ancient race or as a multi-national trade conglomerate. So I had the game starting with the TF already spread out over the galaxy, one planet per system, with lots of storage III facilities. And I made them "non-attackable" to prevent people from getting pops of TFs, planets full of resources, planets with resource converters, etc. Especially if you start the TF out in one spot, you have to have something to prevent someone from taking them over right at the beginning. Perhaps with the upcoming patch you could give them race-specific weapons platforms, really cheap, with super bonuses.Well, first of all, to answere your earlier question, capturing a planet with resource storage facilities does not give you the resources stored there so that's not really a problem. It only increases your empires storage capacity, and decreases the empires that lost the planet.

If the TF starts out as a low tech empire like the others, there is really no advantage to a player in jumping them quickly, and you would earn the wrath of the other players as a result. Lots of downside for little or no gain. Better to nurture the TF and attempt to benefit from it and position your self as it's "protector". But also be in a position to possibly control access to it, if done with care and subtlty.

But if someone does get uppity and decide to pop them, the game would just proceed normally without the TF. That is why the TF's objective is to spread as far and wide as quickly as possible. To ensure that no attack is a death blow and allow it to remain in the game and have an influence of some kind.

But if you want to give them race specific uber-platforms, that can be done now. No need to wait for the patch.

Geoschmo

[ June 11, 2002, 18:33: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

geoschmo

June 11th, 2002, 07:40 PM

Something else I just thought of. Even though I have the TF's inteligence characteristic at the minimum, that only affects the TF's research facilities. The TF would gain research points from any empire it has a T&R or better treaty with, and it gets a bouns to that becasuse of it's savvy characteristic. 4 or 5 T&R treaties ans all of a sudden the TF has more research points every turn than anybody else in the game, on top of any tech it accquires through more direct means. They should be sufficently advanced not too long into the game to defend itself if needed even considering the hefty combat penalties.

Geoschmo

Gryphin

June 11th, 2002, 08:06 PM

I guess I’m a bit na�ve.
The best “protection” for the Trade Federation would be a “Invitation Only” game where the players knew each other by reputation if naught else.

the other ideas are great! I'll re-write them and add them to the page. (um, that is not violating copy write here?). I will repost the full set when I am finished.

geoschmo

June 11th, 2002, 08:43 PM

Originally posted by The High Gryphin:
I guess I’m a bit na�ve.
The best “protection” for the Trade Federation would be a “Invitation Only” game where the players knew each other by reputation if naught else.By all means Gryph, if there was a house rule that the TF was not to be attacked, then it would be poor sportsmanship for anyone to do so. What I was trying to suggest were some rules of engagment whereby the TF would not be strictly immune from attack, or so powerful that any attack were irrelevant. I was thinking that this would give more of an uncertainty to the game, and keep it more interesting for the TF player. Hopefully thereby increasing the attractivesness of what could otherwise be a bit of a drudgery. Of course in real life, the guy with all the money has lots of fun, but who would want to play a game of Monopoly and just be the banker for example? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Geoschmo

Gryphin

June 11th, 2002, 10:19 PM

“who would want to play a game of Monopoly and just be the banker for example?”
Good point geoschmo.

I can think of a few options for the TF in the event of an attack. None of them would ensure survival.
No matter what stage of the game, militarily the FT is likely to be at a disadvantage.
It would behoove the other players not to let the TF fall into the hands of an “Evil Empire”.
The possibility of the TF giving free Tech and Resources to Allied empires should be cause for caution on the part of a predatory player. Then again, it could be a “Feint with in a Feint” and the TF could end up giving Tech to a “pre planned’ future Ally of the EE.
Destroying / Capturing the FT would be like “Killing the Goose that Laid the Golden Egg”
Yes, I like the uncertainty.

Business Ideas Section:
I could also see an initial “Transaction Fee” for opening an account such as Gifting a planet.
I personally would not do it but I could see an FT player running a “Slave Trade” where they would trade in “Atmosphere Breathing Types”. I would never “sell” my population for any reason. Come to think of it. Ethics was sorta what got this thread started. What to do with out of supply ships => what to do ethically => dmm’s idea of a Trade Federation.
Which generates another thought.
The FT could play more than one race. That would
Avoid the modding issues
Make them a formidable opponent
There would be a lot of interesting Ramifications.

geoschmo

June 11th, 2002, 10:26 PM

Dont' think of it as a Slave Trade, think of it as a Employee Placement Service.

"Need Workers for that airless moon mine colony your empire just established? Call 1-800-TRADE-FED and we will get you in contact with the workers you need. The increased production will pay for itself before you know it."http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

dmm

June 12th, 2002, 12:09 AM

THG suggested "The TF player could play more than one race."
That's a great idea! That would spread them across the galaxy right away, and essentially give the TF several turns for everyone else's one turn. That would also help with complicated deals. (Example: TFa receives gifted ship from EEE. Refuels it. Gifts it to TFb. TFb receives gifted ship from TFb. Gifts it to EEE. So EEE can get its ship refueled and returned in 1 turn instead of two.)

Plus, gives them twice the return from TR alliances. Although everyone else would also get 2X return from the TF, it wouldn't help them reciprocally because the TF wouldn't be producing as much. (Example: Let R stand for "research points." Suppose TFa has 100 R, TFb has 100 R, 5 other races allied with the TF [but not each other] each have 1000 R. With 20% research sharing, TFa+TFb gets [200+200]*5 R = 2000 R, but each of those races only gets [20+20] R = 40 R from the TF. If there were only one TF race, then TF would get 1000 R and other races would get 20 R.

BUT!!! This makes it even more imperative that TF's victory condition be radically different from everyone else's!

dmm

June 12th, 2002, 12:21 AM

How about this suggestion for a possible TF deal? A player "gifts" the TF a ship. The TF then takes it across hostile territory to a predetermined location, and trades it back for a big profit. The TF-immunity courier service! Use it for all your warzone shipping needs!

Geoschmo: My strange child likes playing only the banker in Monopoly! But if the banker could make all kinds of deals like this, I might want to be the banker too!

geoschmo

June 12th, 2002, 12:50 AM

Oooo. Player A gifts a CLOAKED fleet to TF, who then moves it into position over Player B's homeworld, bypassing minefields. OUCH! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Each game will want to set some guidlines on that sort of thing I think.

Geoschmo

Gryphin

June 12th, 2002, 02:35 AM

dmm, geoschmo,
You guys are reading my mind. My sweetheart is standing here appauled (and wearring a big grin).

Looks like we are thining along the same lines and yes there would have to be a self imposed agreement not to use / abuse the TF's "Diplomatic Imunity" to move through war zones. The TF could however deliver said ships to a clients "Zone of Control" even if this meant moving through said warzone.

geoschmo

June 12th, 2002, 02:50 AM

Of course if an empire were extermely paranoid, they could simply cancel their treaty with the TF during the war.

Geoschmo

Krsqk

June 12th, 2002, 03:26 AM

(Example: TFa receives gifted ship from EEE. Refuels it. Gifts it to TFb. TFb receives gifted ship from TFb. Gifts it to EEE. So EEE can get its ship refueled and returned in 1 turn instead of two.)In simultaneous (PBW) games, won't this take two turns per gifting?
[edit--fix quote code]

[ June 12, 2002, 02:29: Message edited by: Krsqk ]

Gryphin

June 12th, 2002, 04:35 AM

The paranoid race could cancel the treaty but it would probably cost them more in trade and research than it would be worth.
This will surely add a new dimension to the game.
I better get these "Ideas" fleshed out.

I wonder how many others it apeasls to.

[ June 12, 2002, 12:26: Message edited by: The High Gryphin ]

dmm

June 12th, 2002, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by The High Gryphin:
...there would have to be a self imposed agreement not to use / abuse the TF's "Diplomatic Imunity" to move through war zones. The TF could however deliver said ships to a clients "Zone of Control" even if this meant moving through said warzone.Yes, I think so too. There's a big difference between ferrying stuff through a war zone, and ferrying stuff into a war zone. The latter is an obvious act of war; the former is "just doing business." Perhaps even the rule could be that combat ships are not subject to immunity. But you still would have to watch your back. Maybe that noncombat fleet being ferried to the system behind you has a lot of minesweepers and spaceyards. Or maybe it has a colonizer and cargo ships filled with mines/sats/platforms. So people would be wise to have a ship with good long range sensors stationed in each system. Perhaps people could be allowed to attack "immune" fleets but be forced to pay a hefty war indemnity -- especially if the fleet turned out to belong to someone with whom they were not formally at war.

Gryphin

June 12th, 2002, 05:24 PM

Not all of the following apply directly but they do involve respecting territorial rights, weapon sales and transportation,
I’m thinking of the Barbary Pirates who demanded tribute
The Lusitania.(sp)?, (Passenger ship sunk by the Germans who claimed it was transporting weapons)
The Patrol boats paid for by Israel, built by but not delivered by France for political reasons, (Israel sent in commandos and “Picked them up at the Factory”
The “Pueblo Incident” where an admitted spy ship was captured by North Korea because it was “Inside Territorial Waters”
Our enforcing the “Three Mile Limit” off the coast of North Africa
The mining of Vietnams harbors
Being forced to fly around the Air Space of several European nations when attacking targets in the Middle East. I have forgotten what war.
Our boarding of Frieghters and fishing trawlers in the name of “National Security”
I guess if you were to move “innocent looking” BattleCrusier size ships through my star system clearly going to my enemy, I would object.
After considering the above and the points below:

Perhaps an even stricter rule should be used.
Since no Empire should allow their rightful territory to be used to transport weapons to their enemy
Since to prevent the TF from doing so would force them to declare war on the TF
Since declaring war on the TF would be economically detrimental
The Trade Federation must respect the “Sector Space” and “Warp Point Limit” in star systems controlled by all players. To attack such a convoy would force a player to declare war on the TF. That would be realistic but not “fair” in game terms as it would weaken the player declearing war.

geoschmo

June 12th, 2002, 06:12 PM

Yeah, that's probably a good suggestion. Perhaps the TF should not be ferrying ships at all. THe only movement of TF ships would perhaps be to move them from where they were picked up to the nearest repair/resupply facility, where the TF will either dispose of them, or return them to the original owner.

Gryphin

June 12th, 2002, 06:48 PM

Another possible job for the Trade Federation

Enforcing “The Galactic Convention”
It is in the TF’s best interest to prevent the “Glassing of Planets” the “Closing of Warp Points”, “Exploding of Suns” etc. as these would reduce the income from those sources or cut off communication with other races.. The TF could make very clear that “Sanctions Will be Imposed” in the event of a violation.

Random Thought
Using Stock SE IV Gold
Is it possible to create a ship damaging storm?
If so,
Is it possible to create a ship damaging storm? in a warp point?
If so,
If so, if you created one on a ship damaging warp point would it be cumulative?

dmm

June 12th, 2002, 07:00 PM

Grrrr, I see what you're saying about having to break treaty with the TF in order to attack their ship. We're being limited again by SEIV's diplomatic model. You should be able to attack any ship you want -- enemy, neutral, allied, partner -- without being forced to change the diplomatic status. This happens all the time in real life, and countries don't necessarily declare war. Sometimes the neutral is embarassingly exposed as a gun runner and apologizes. Other times the agressor is shown to be in the wrong; sometimes he pays reparations, sometimes not. But it doesn't always lead to war.
Example: Chinese fighter pilot critically damages US surveillance/spy plane that was flying in what most countries consider international air space. Chinese fighter and pilot are lost. US plane lands without permission at Chinese air field, thus violating their territory. Chinese refuse to give plane back and hold US crew prisoner. Net result? Everyone yells. A few months later the US even lets China join WTO.
Regardless of your viewpoint on these events, they prove that SEIV's diplomatic model is too simplistic.

dmm

June 12th, 2002, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by The High Gryphin:
Using Stock SE IV Gold
Is it possible to create a ship damaging storm?
If so,
Is it possible to create a ship damaging storm? in a warp point?
If so,
If so, if you created one on a ship damaging warp point would it be cumulative?I know that you can make ship damaging storms. The damage accumulates and will eventually destroy a ship. I know this because I have seen it. I've never seen any map objects except planets sharing a sector. Maybe you can do it with the map editor. But I'm sure that SEIV is programmed to prevent it from generating maps like that.