This is a pretty nasty racial combo...

[geoschmo]

So I took over this open spot in a PBW game. I am not sure why the guy left. It certainly wasn't cause he was getting beat. Even the AI was holding it's own after a few turns of running things.

Anyway, it was a 5000 racial point game. Not something I am used to playing. I have heard people saying that Psychic religious is a good racial combo. This guy went with one I hadn't seen before. Organic/Temporal. Thanks to the Temporal space yards of course I can build things faster anyway. And the organic tech allows be to design ships that are not so mineral heavy. I am building Organic baseships in 2 turns. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Geoschmo

[tesco samoa]

i use that one.

Also the temporal/crystal is a good combo.

That 30% maintence reduction is great with the temporal ship yards.

[Baron Munchausen]

Well, any combination of racial techs you could think of would be nasty. They are designed around a 'theme' with specific strengths and weaknesses. When you combine two of them you cover or balance the weaknesses of each with the strengths of the other. Temporal and crystalline is an excellent example. Temporal has evil weapons, but no defense enhancements. Crystalline has good defenses but cruddy offensive weapons once shields become decent. I wonder if anyone has played with THREE racial techs? It's doable if you take almost no other bonuses. But you're likely to get stomped before you can do all the required research. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ July 15, 2002, 04:47: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

[Wardad]

I played with Four traits in a Full Tech 10 planet start game.

Religious / Temporal / Physic / Organic

Without the organic facilities I had no population growth because of my point trade offs.
The organic armor was nice, but the 10 starting planets only had 1 farm and 1 radioactive extraction facility each.

I boosted my build rate and the temporal planet shipyards could do 7325.

[Ed Kolis]

Can't top this - Suicide Junkie is playing an armsdealer race in a PBW game and he has ALL FIVE racial tech areas!!! He had to take massive minuses to just about everything even though it's a 5000 point game! Guess he wants to make sure he can sell something that can't be analyzed to everybody, no matter what trait they picked...

[Ed Kolis]

By the way, I never understood what was so great about Organics having supposedly faster build times... Sure, your attack ship might cost 15,000 orgs instead of 15,000 mins... but it would still take just as many turns to build! Or are organic ship components really that much cheaper that I never noticed???

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Ed Kolis:
By the way, I never understood what was so great about Organics having supposedly faster build times... Sure, your attack ship might cost 15,000 orgs instead of 15,000 mins... but it would still take just as many turns to build! Or are organic ship components really that much cheaper that I never noticed???<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">THe point is not the amount of resources but the balance. Assume your space yard builds at a rate of 5000 of each rescource per turn. If your ship costs 30,000 minerals and no organics, you can build one every 6 turns. But if it costs 15,000 minerals and 15,000 organics, the same total amount, you can build one ship every three turns.

Geo

[Fyron]

Which is why organic weapons are so crappy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Baron Munchausen]

Originally posted by Ed Kolis:
Can't top this - Suicide Junkie is playing an armsdealer race in a PBW game and he has ALL FIVE racial tech areas!!! He had to take massive minuses to just about everything even though it's a 5000 point game! Guess he wants to make sure he can sell something that can't be analyzed to everybody, no matter what trait they picked...<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wow... think of how much RESEARCH he's got to generate to get all those techs so he can sell them. He's got to survive for a very long time on sheer diplomacy. A very interesting challenge. It would probably be impossible in a game with any major AI powers. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif The AI would just blithely colonize and grow all over you unless you fought with them, and then you'd be inferior for a long time and probably unable to stop them. Early contact would be a death sentence.

[ July 15, 2002, 23:25: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

[Fyron]

Actually, it is a P&N game, and he is a Nomadic race. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[jimbob]

please don't tell me that it's the p&n 2.6beta test game, I've been waiting for it to start forever... did it start when I was in Arizona?

I checked my email every day, honest!

[Will]

Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
Wow... think of how much RESEARCH he's got to generate to get all those techs so he can sell them. He's got to survive for a very long time on sheer diplomacy. A very interesting challenge. It would probably be impossible in a game with any major AI powers. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif The AI would just blithely colonize and grow all over you unless you fought with them, and then you'd be inferior for a long time and probably unable to stop them. Early contact would be a death sentence.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A while ago, I played a game with all five racials... It was a few months before SJ added all the racial-crossover components (ie, Drop Troop for Religious/Organic) in P&N, not sure exactly when that was. Low tech start, High # of AIs, High Difficulty, High Bonus. All I really had to do was barricade the two systems adjacent to my home system, colonize all three, and start researching. I think I stopped playing at around turn 200, because I had something like 75 fully developed systems, and the two remaining AI had 5 total systems between them. It got boring http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

But I do believe the Temporal/Organic combo is my favorite for balancing racial points and bonuses in other areas. Not only are there the super-fast builds, but the fighters are killers. Combine small Time Distortion Bursts and small Electric Discharges on a design... if you put the TDBs before the EDs, all the TDBs in a stack will fire, either stripping shields or taking out a good chunk of 'em. Then the EDs fire, which is quite deadly if the TDBs took out the shields http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Skulky]

SJ has a great idea going there, finally a use for the Nomads. I'll write up my finalized idea for a PBW run scenario/mod in a bit but this is something i will have to consider.

[Baron Munchausen]

Will, isn't that pretty much true of any game against the AI? All you have to do is 'barricade' yourself into a few systems and research? Even with a bonus the AI is awful at research. It follows a pre-planned script and cannot deviate from it to react to actual need except for one or two things like mine sweepers. If you were playing against at least one human opponent I think your game would have turnd out very differently.

[Fyron]

Jimbob:
No, it isn't that game. It's a different PBW game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

And one in which I am doing almost as well as Fyron, I dare say.

[dumbluck]

I can safely say that I'm definately not doing as well as either of you...

[Skulky]

I would really like to see your .emp or general plan for that type of empire SJ.

[Fyron]

That's only cause SJ offered to sell neat toys to me, so I didn't attack him. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif j/k Well, that, and the fact that I am between his empire and the rest of the galaxy, so it would be rather problematic for others to attack his homeworld (supply related problems).

You know Dumbluck, upgrading our treaty to a T&R treaty would help a little. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ July 18, 2002, 20:26: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Stone Mill]

Quick Question for those who use Temporal:

Do you just head straight for Temporal Space Yards, or do you research Space Yards 3 first? Seems like you would have to in order to build Space Yard ships (I don't believe Temporal has a SY ship component).

It seems like a waste that you have to demolish your SY 3 in order to build a Temporal yard.

I'm just wondering if anyone found it effective (or feasible) to go straight for temporal yards?

[geoschmo]

I have heard of mods that add a temporal yard component, and other mods that make it possible to upgrade a SY3 to a Tempomral Yard without destroying it. In the stock game though you have abou tcovered it. No way around it. You could stay with SY 1 for your ship based yards, but they would be pretty slow.

[Baron Munchausen]

I've moved space yard components to the REPAIR field with repair bays. This saves you having to research space yards just to have the component. Next issue: Should automated repair bays and space yard require computers. Logically, I'd say yes, but it might create some serious problems for the AI to add more research requirements to a basic thing like space yard components...

[Suicide Junkie]

I would really like to see your .emp or general plan for that type of empire SJ. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Unfortunately, I don't have any declassified Versions that will work in public Versions of PBW at the moment.

The recipe:</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Start with a 5000 point P&N game.</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Take all racial tech areas, including grav manip and living ships.</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If available, choose "Endemic Wastefulness" to help balance the books later. Micromanagement and heavy investment in supply infrastructure can typically overcome this disadvantage.</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Take large to maximum negatives on Physical strength, repair rate, happiness, and anything else you feel you can do without.</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Resource Aptitudes should be set to 80% to get the most points at the least cost.</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If normal, be sure to increase maintenance reduction. If nomadic, take smaller negative values on other characteristics. In fact, if you're nomadic, you can probably afford to take a negative on maintenance reduction, which should net you a significant amount of points.