Empire specific components, tech - possible?

[Elowan]

This question may have been fielded before but damnficanfindit.

Short of adding a Racial Trait - is there a Q&D (quick & dirty) way to make a component/tech/what-ever specific only to your empire?

Changing a Racial Trait prevents the game loading other empires by name without you resaving all the emps.

[pathfinder]

I may be wrong but make a new tech in techarea.txt and ONLY that race researches it in the AI_research.txt file. You'll probably have to make some kind of component pics, make a list of the component/tech levels in AI_component.txt plus put pics of the component in the component pic file.

[geoschmo]

Elowan, what you are trying to do is the definition of a racial trait, and it is impossible without changing the racial traits file.

However you are slightly incorrect. You can change the racial traits all you want, you just can't add or subtract racial traits form the file without redoing all the .emp files. You could make severl dummy racial traits that have no value and give no tech, and then change them later and set them up the way you want and it won't cause problems with the .emp files.

Geoschmo

[Elowan]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
... However you are slightly incorrect. You can change the racial traits all you want, you just can't add or subtract racial traits form the file without redoing all the .emp files. You could make severl dummy racial traits that have no value and give no tech, and then change them later and set them up the way you want and it won't cause problems with the .emp files.

Geoschmo<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes - I could. But #1 - after adding those dummy traits - I'd still have to save the other emp files. Yes?

Also #2 - that racial trait - dummy or no - would have to appear (actually would) appear in the selectable traits at game start. Yes?

[Elowan]

Originally posted by pathfinder:
I may be wrong but make a new tech in techarea.txt and ONLY that race researches it in the AI_research.txt file. You'll probably have to make some kind of component pics, make a list of the component/tech levels in AI_component.txt plus put pics of the component in the component pic file.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmmm - I'll look into that.

I did look at that file and you may be right! How about it Geoschmo? Anyone try that?

[ August 18, 2002, 18:05: Message edited by: Elowan ]

[Suicide Junkie]

#1: Yes, but you would have to redo the EMPs anyways. This way, you get it out of the way once, and don't have to re-redo the EMPs next time you want to add racial traits.

#2: Yes, but just have them do nothing, and say "This is a mod expansion slot. Do not choose."

[gregebowman]

Speaking of .emp files, how do you create them? I recently downloaded some race files, and they didn't have the .emp files included? HOw do I go about creating them?

[Suicide Junkie]

1) Start a game with randomly generated AIs.
2) Click the Clipboard menu (top left), click players, and uncheck all the AIs.
3) During each AI player's turn, Click the Clipboard menu, and "Save Empire". Don't bother saving the ship designs; the AIs will always overwrite them anyways.
4) When saving give the file a good description, such as "Rage 5000 rp"

[geoschmo]

Elowan and Pathfinder, The AI_research file only affects the way that the AI behaves. You could in fact keep an AI from ever researching a basic tech by simply excluding it from the AI-Research file, but you won't be able to prevent a human player from researching it that way.

Geoschmo

[Baron Munchausen]

Warning:

The AI_Research file is used first by the AI. Once it gets to the end of that file it seems to go and research anything and everything it can find. I have no idea what 'plan' it uses but it does seem to gain tehcs it was not programmed to research. Most of you don't obsessively play games into the late stages so you probably haven't seen this... But I have. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[gregebowman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
[QB]1) Start a game with randomly generated AIs.
2) Click the Clipboard menu (top left), click players, and uncheck all the AIs.
3) During each AI player's turn, Click the Clipboard menu, and "Save Empire". Don't bother saving the ship designs; the AIs will always overwrite them anyways.
4) When saving give the file a good description, such as "Rage 5000 rp"

That's another question I have. For each race, there are 3 .emp files. Why is that, and if using the above method, how do I know which number to use?

[Phoenix-D]

"That's another question I have. For each race, there are 3 .emp files. Why is that, and if using the above method, how do I know which number to use? "

Different racial point levels, depending on how your game is set up the 5000 one may be too high (invalid, not useable) the 2000 one too low (unspent points, PAIN) and the 3000 the correct one.

[gregebowman]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Different racial point levels, depending on how your game is set up the 5000 one may be too high (invalid, not useable) the 2000 one too low (unspent points, PAIN) and the 3000 the correct one.[/QB][/QUOTE] <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ok, let me see if I got this right. Depending on how many racial point levels I use, I can save the race using that number. But I still don't understand why each race has the three different .emp numbers. Can anyone expand on this issue?

[Elowan]

Originally posted by gregebowman:
Ok, let me see if I got this right. Depending on how many racial point levels I use, I can save the race using that number. But I still don't understand why each race has the three different .emp numbers. Can anyone expand on this issue?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Because in multi-player (MP) games - not all will be played at 3K or 5K. Hence modders will often save different emps for different MP game levels.

There's another issue. If you try - using Add Existing - to load a 3k RP game - SE will give you an error msg. It will load a 2k Version of the empire - because 2K is the default. Then you can set the RP's load the desired 3K empire and remove the other. Of course - you can set the RP lvl BEFORE attempting to load your 3K empire.

This error msg is/was the subject of the current thread ; A puzzlement ...

[ August 20, 2002, 18:30: Message edited by: Elowan ]

[capnq]

On the Game Setup/Player Settings screen, there are four options for Racial Points for New Players: 0, 2000, 3000, and 5000.

That's where the three numbers come from. (Too few people play 0 point games to bother making an .emp file with that value.)

Higher starting totals let you give a race more Advanced Traits and/or higher Characteristics. (Another reason why 0 point games aren't popular.)

[ August 20, 2002, 23:52: Message edited by: capnq ]

[gregebowman]

I understand that. But Last night, I started a new game. I recenlty downloaded some race files, which had everything but the .emp files. So I tried to load one of those races as an existing race. None of them would come up on the list. But interestingly enough, when I saw the list of AI races, one of those races was showing up as one of my opponents. I don't understand how the computer could use that race, but I couldn't. How can I save those new races with .emp files when I can't even get them to show up on the list of playable races?

[Pax]

Originally posted by gregebowman:
I understand that. But Last night, I started a new game. I recenlty downloaded some race files, which had everything but the .emp files. So I tried to load one of those races as an existing race. None of them would come up on the list. But interestingly enough, when I saw the list of AI races, one of those races was showing up as one of my opponents. I don't understand how the computer could use that race, but I couldn't. How can I save those new races with .emp files when I can't even get them to show up on the list of playable races?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The computer can use them because "designcreation.txt" (IIRC) is a set of instructions on how to create an EMP -- instructions for the computer to do so, in fact.

NFC how to save them yourself; IMO the best idea would be to hand-build them yourself, while reading the design-creation file as a guideline on where to spend points, etc.

[dumbluck]

OK. In the game where you got the empire you want to save a .emp for:

</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">go to the Game Menu (upper left hand corner of the screen).</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Click on Players.</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">UN-dot the empire in question. This will put it under human control (namely, you).</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hit End Turn</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The turn will run until it gets to the empire in question, then you can play it's turn. Instead, click on Game Menu.</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Click Save Empire. Don't bother saving the shipsets, the AI will overwrite it for every game.</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Give the new .emp file a nice name, like Empire 3000, for a 3000 point .emp file.
</font><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Does that clear it up?

EDIT: Of coarse, you could also just make it yourself, as previously suggested.... But this way the AI will pretty much work how the author intended... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[ August 21, 2002, 14:47: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

[geoschmo]

You have the right idea Pax, but the file actually used is the AI_General.txt file.

It has the basic information of the race in question, as well as what characteristics and advanced traits are to be used for 2k, 3k, or 5k racial point games.

If you want to have one of these as an empire file simply click the "Game Options" icon in the upper left, then click "Players" and turn off the green dots by the empire you want. Green dot on means its under compouter control. Then hit end turn on your empire and it will bring you to that empire. If it asks for a password it's probably 'master', then same the empire and you will now have an .emp file to use the next time you play.

Geoschmo

[dumbluck]

Or you could just do it how Geo suggested...
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Hey, wait a minute here... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[geoschmo]

Yeah DL, I type slower. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[gregebowman]

Ok, guys, thanks for the info. I'll try these suggestions when I get home tonight.

[capnq]

I recenlty downloaded some race files, which had everything but the .emp files. So I tried to load one of those races as an existing race. None of them would come up on the list. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The reason you couldn't load them is that "Load Existing Race" just looks in the Empires folder and lists all the .emp files that are already there.

[God Emperor]

Elowan,
Have been away several weeks and only just saw your post.
There is a way of making components race specific without screwing around with the racial traits.

The answer is to do as I did with my Borg variant. That is edit the TechArea.txt file to incorporate a new Tech Area (mine was called Borg Technology) which at different levels allows access to components of different levels. You then add this technology as a research area to the AI_Research.txt file.
As the race is the only one with the tech area in its research program, no other AI race can/will research it.
The only downside is that human players can research it (house rules apply!) and that it occaisionally will pop up on one of those tech planets/ruins as the bonus tech. If an AI player discovers it, there is no problem though as their AI_DesignCreation.txt files will not allow them to incorporate the components (provided that you have not just copied the Weapons/ Component numbers and have created new numbers instead).

As I said earlier, check out my Borg variant in the Race Archive to see an example of how it can be done.
Regards,
GE

[Crazy_Dog]

Originally posted by God Emperor:
Elowan,
Have been away several weeks and only just saw your post.
There is a way of making components race specific without screwing around with the racial traits.

The answer is to do as I did with my Borg variant. That is edit the TechArea.txt file to incorporate a new Tech Area (mine was called Borg Technology) which at different levels allows access to components of different levels. You then add this technology as a research area to the AI_Research.txt file.
As the race is the only one with the tech area in its research program, no other AI race can/will research it.
The only downside is that human players can research it (house rules apply!) and that it occaisionally will pop up on one of those tech planets/ruins as the bonus tech. If an AI player discovers it, there is no problem though as their AI_DesignCreation.txt files will not allow them to incorporate the components (provided that you have not just copied the Weapons/ Component numbers and have created new numbers instead).

As I said earlier, check out my Borg variant in the Race Archive to see an example of how it can be done.
Regards,
GE<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This let build any item specific for the race you want ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[God Emperor]

yup (SE4 is a great game for modders!)

[God Emperor]

PS: The only "core" files that you have to edit are the TechArea and Components files...

[jimbob]

I personally prefer this approach over separate racial trees because then when you capture an enemy vessel (i.e. the borg capture the enterprise or vis-versa) you could disassemble the ship to reverse engineer the technology/components. As long as the players are honest and don't cheat by researching that branch further, you can get some fun assimilated/hybrid ships floating about the universe.
But with strictly exclusive tech trees, the Borg (or any other race) can only hope to assimilate the most mundane (common) components, like engines, shields... the boring stuff that everyone researches in common.