Dips--t AI's!!

[Elowan]

The scenario (of which you are all familiar):

Your civ explores a system and claims it.
Upon exiting via another (unexplored) warp point - your ship detects an alien vessel clear across the system at a warp point.

You back out or exit through another unexplored warp point.

You establish a trade treaty with the aliens.

Meanwhile your explorer ship comes back into sector whence it discovered the aliens in the first place - heading for a planet to refuel.

Message: you have left us no choice ... And the war is on! Chrissake! Wazzup widdat!? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

[ August 19, 2002, 19:42: Message edited by: Elowan ]

[geoschmo]

They don't like you claiming systems next to their systems. And they don't like your colonies next to systems that they have claimed. They won't IIRC claim a system until they colonize it.

It's a defense mechanism given to the AI because they aren't smart enough to analyise the situation and be able to tell if you are a legitimate threat. So they are told to assume you are a threat as soon as you get close.

It's frankly why PBW is so popular. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Geo

[Arkcon]

Originally posted by Elowan:


Message: you have left us no choice ... And the war is on! Chrissake! Wazzup widdat!? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I can't prove it, but I bet they would eventually have declared war anyway if that ship just reversed course and was scrapped. They simply don't want to share space with anyone.

They might have kept the treaty if you had sats on the warp points preventing exploration.

They might have wanted to be peacefull if you had more ships.

They would have been peacefull if they were already at war with someone else.

Or I could be completely wrong -- you mileage may vary.

[ August 19, 2002, 19:58: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

[Arkcon]

Originally posted by geoschmo:

It's a defense mechanism given to the AI because they aren't smart enough to analyise the situation and be able to tell if you are a legitimate threat. So they are told to assume you are a threat as soon as you get close.

Geo<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The question is, does the A.I. have any ability to make a decision like that. It seems to try to match fleet strength to the opponents. And to make other intelligent decisions with regard to mines, weapon platforms, etc.

Can it really not tell the player doesn't yet pose a threat.

I can see that it's a logical choice that the human player will eventually declare war so why not do it first, but do you think some decision-making steps are hard coded?

[Q]

Elowan did you send them some flowers?

No?

Well you don't have to wonder why they declared war on you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

But seriously: it all depend on the anger and politic file of the race involved. There are races that react as incoherently as you described, others that will hate and fight you consistently from the very beginning and others that will love you forever until the mega evil empire event will seperate you.

[Q]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
It's a defense mechanism given to the AI because they aren't smart enough to analyise the situation and be able to tell if you are a legitimate threat. So they are told to assume you are a threat as soon as you get close.Geo<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's not completely true. The AI analyses the score percent and reacts according to its instructions in the politics file.
But almost all standard politics files makes them break treaties and declare war more easily if the other empire is weaker than the AI itself.
But you can modify that!

[DirectorTsaarx]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
They don't like you claiming systems next to their systems. And they don't like your colonies next to systems that they have claimed. They won't IIRC claim a system until they colonize it.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm pretty sure they claim adjacent systems as well... but I could be misremembering...

[Arkcon]

Originally posted by Q:
Elowan did you send them some flowers?

No?

Well you don't have to wonder why they declared war on you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

But seriously: it all depend on the anger and politic file of the race involved. There are races that react as incoherently as you described, others that will hate and fight you consistently from the very beginning and others that will love you forever until the mega evil empire event will seperate you.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Absolutely right, it is very important on first contact to send a gift. 1000 organics or something. As was noted by someone else even angry xenophobes like gifts.

Consider, the 1000 organics is a meal at a really big party held to introduce yourself to another race. Like whenever Voyager met a race and there was a big party hosted by Nelix.

'Tho, if your cultural officer had his personality, you're lucky the ship isn't shot at on sight. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ August 19, 2002, 22:56: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Q:
Elowan did you send them some flowers?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Maybe the AI saw how grumpy he is today and decided they better declare war and attack him first or they were going to get smoked for sure. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Geo

[Elowan]

Originally posted by Arkcon:
'Tho, if your cultural officer had his personality, you're lucky the ship isn't shot at on sight. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually - I'm quite lovable - ask my patients. However - patience is another matter entirely.

Besides - I can be grumpy if I want to! So There! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Krakenup]

In my experience, the most important thing is whether you are the first empire to make contact. The AI's typically declare war on the first alien empire they meet. If you are the second, they are already at war with the first and, therefore, want to be your buddy.

I tested this Last week. I started a game sending out scouts in all directions. I ran into two AI's that were not very far apart. They both declared war on me after a few turns. I restarted the game, and, this time, I colonized my home system first and then sent out the scout ships. The two AI's had met each other and were at war. Within a few turns, they were both warm to me and wanted a Military Alliance.

[Growltigga]

Is there any way to claim a system other than by colonising it?

[Krsqk]

Click on the system in the Borders section of the Empires screen (alien icon). You can also see what everyone else is claiming.

[Growltigga]

you mean icon second from left bottom row that takes you to diplomacy? is that where you can claim territory?

[Krsqk]

That's it. Click that, then Borders.

[sachmo]

Of course they are mad...look at his avatar! It looks like he's offering them a hanful of poo!Only the Rage would not see the insult in that gift.

[Elowan]

Originally posted by sachmo:
Of course they are mad...look at his avatar! It looks like he's offering them a hanful of poo!Only the Rage would not see the insult in that gift.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I wonder about someone who can't tell an apple from s--t.