Little bit OT but SEIV related

[oleg]

Introduction: As most people here know, the humanity has greatly increased the knowledge of nearby star system composiotions: Due to the progress in astronomical devices and software development, we can detect massive planets orbiting stars (sorry, I do not have a link in hand but it a very hot topic in SETI today andt somebody else can surely supply the most recent link on the subject). The limitation of our instrumentations restricted us to the detection of very strange systems: planets size of Jupiter or more orbiting star in distance inside mercury orbit, and by Jove, they are all arond us http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif . It does sound something like a place totaly hostile to the life as we know it, but what do we know ?

For example (yep, it is the most "scientific" proof I have), in my Last SEIV Proportions game I started as my "non-canon" Tholian race (crystalline, methane gas giant) just on the top of the star. Here is JPEG picture:

1030890547.jpg (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1030890547.jpg)

As you noticed, my start is fabulious: two "grean star" gas giants !! It promises a very interesting game, but, finally, my question is :

Is is possible that any sort of intelligent life possible in such enviroment ? If you answer yes, be aware that at least a dozen of places for such incomprehensive civilizations exist inside 40 parsecs sphere around Earth ...

[Yama001]

Take a look at David Brin's or Gregory Benford's fiction - great examples of the possibilities for life and/or sentience in unlikely environments.

[Taz-in-Space]

I personally doubt that ADVANCED life is possiable in a system that has a Jovian world so close to the star. Gravity tidal forces in such a system would seem to me to rule it out.
IMHO ADVANCED life would require some stability to evolve.

[geoschmo]

Not even thinking about life, would it be possible for such a planet to exsist so close to the star around which it orbits.

If so I would think it would have to be a very small and weak star, and so perhaps life could eveolve that close actually.

Geoshmo

[Suicide Junkie]

A planet can hold itself together under much harsher conditions than life can.
These Jupiter and bigger planets are nearly big enough to become stars themselves.

[Arkcon]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Not even thinking about life, would it be possible for such a planet to exsist so close to the star around which it orbits.

If so I would think it would have to be a very small and weak star, and so perhaps life could eveolve that close actually.

Geoshmo<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Likewise, a huge planet, called a brown dwarf because it gives off some of it's own energy could be part of a binary with a weak star.

You just can't fight the urge to speculate on such things when you play SE4. There was already a thread on the likelyhood of intelligent life.

Here's something that burns in my brain from time to time:

Many space 4X games have the "colony ship". You use it to colonize other planets. Once the colony is founded, the colony ship disappears -- stripped by the colonists for spare parts, scrap metal, the engines retrofitted into fusion reactors to power the new colony. Ok, that's the standard paradigm^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H model. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

See, I wouldn't design it like that. I'd launch the colony module planetside and keep the ship in space. It's solar cells could transfer power down by shuttleing down fuel cells, or transmit to microwave relay stations. It could function as a communications sattelite. It could survey the rest of the planet or other planets in the system.

Or like the colony ships that left Europe for the New World, they could return home for redepoyment.

Or to keep the SE4 model, every new planet gets a bare bones 300 kt space staion. That you can retrofit with weapons so your new colonys aren't defenceless.

How would you colonize space if you had SE4-like technology?

Do you really need a chuck of a spacecrafts hull as a roof? Would you go anywhere where building materials were that scarce?

This probably all came to me cause I watched that tv show Earth 2, they seemed to have a plan simalar to mine.

[ September 01, 2002, 20:31: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

[Puke]

Originally posted by Arkcon:
See, I wouldn't design it like that. I'd launch the colony module planetside and keep the ship in space. It's solar cells could transfer power down by shuttleing down fuel cells, or transmit to microwave relay stations. It could function as a communications sattelite. It could survey the rest of the planet or other planets in the system. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">who says they dont?

Or like the colony ships that left Europe for the New World, they could return home for redepoyment. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">okay, they clearly dont do this. it would be nice if there was a variable for 'ship destroyed when used.' That way you could have cheap, disposable colony ships, and larger mid-grade colony ships that just have the colony component destroyed on use, and could be repaired at a spaceyard (like stellar manip, where simple repair wont work). and high end spaceyards (truely massive) that could basically plop down colonies at will, as long as there is population available.

Or to keep the SE4 model, every new planet gets a bare bones 300 kt space staion. That you can retrofit with weapons so your new colonys aren't defenceless.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">yeah, thats a good idea too. maybe a little smaller, since some of the ship components would go unused, and bases would require other components. maybe a seperate technology branch would be required that would allow conVersion of derilect ships to bases, through some sort of special hull ability or component.

[Suicide Junkie]

Well, the colony module makes up two thirds of the ship... and you want to land all of that in a month or less.
You would want the big ship engines to slow the descent (even harder than navigating interplanetary space), notwithstanding atmosphere dependent landing techniques like parachutes. All that's left is the Bridge/LS/CQ.
You'd still be using those three items to survive on the surface as your technicians deploy the colony module and set up the domes so you can breathe.

I can imagine an independent colony module which can simply be launched into a system, land and deploy by itself. However it would be pretty wasteful to have the skeletal remainder of the ship return to load another module...
Building a new colony ship is only very slightly harder than building just the module.

A ship which could carry multiple colony modules, and perhaps even be equipped with enough to colonize an entire starsystem simultaneously might make use of the independent modules, but it would be a horribly large cost for one ship, and it would be more vulnerable than an equivalent fleet.

PS: although SE4 would allow you to quickly and easily repair the module, it is totally unrealistic. Its the same as retrofitting a bunch of bases to form a ringworld in two turns. Except without any cost.

Or like the colony ships that left Europe for the New World, they could return home for redepoyment.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">IMO, this is more like having a population transport being able to colonize a breathable, home-surface type world by dropping people on it.
If the environment encourages instant death, say humans in an oxy gas giant (falling), or humans on a vaccuum rock world, this would not be possible.

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Puke:
...just have the colony component destroyed on use, and could be repaired at a spaceyard (like stellar manip, where simple repair wont work).<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Umm... what SM isn't repaired by repair bays? WP Openers and Closers are repaired by repair bays.

[Ed Kolis]

Must have been thinking of emergency supply pods...

[Puke]

yep, must have.

[henk brouwer]

Originally posted by oleg:
Introduction: As most people here know, the humanity has greatly increased the knowledge of nearby star system composiotions: Due to the progress in astronomical devices and software development, we can detect massive planets orbiting stars (sorry, I do not have a link in hand but it a very hot topic in SETI today andt somebody else can surely supply the most recent link on the subject). <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">http://www.extrasolar.net/
Great site, with lots of cool graphics and extrasolar landscapes (and a complete list of all extrasolar worlds and data)