Best Scifi Series ever, canceled! (OT)

[Owlman]

Well folks, Scifi has decided to pull the plug on Farscape, the most inovative SciFi series since the original Star Trek. The show will run out season 4 and be done with it. If you werent familiar with the series, it followed the tale of modern day US astronaught (and fellow southerner) John Crichton, who was shot through a wormhole to a distant part of the galaxy. Apon arriving, he accidently kills a PeaceKeeper and is forced to flee with a group of escaped prisoners. The character of Crichton is more real and three dimensional than all the Star Trek crews combined. We watch him transform from a peace loving scientist, to a brutal, mercyless fighter in only a season. He struggled for his sanity in season 2, fighting a neural clone of his arch enemy inside his head. The sudden cancellation screws the series quite bad, since the "Emergency cancelation" ending was already used mid way in season 3 when it was belived that the series was going to go the distance. With the exception of the X-Files, Farscape was the only Scifi show to actually have many Emmy worthy actors. The show will be greatly missed. It dosen't seem fair that a horrible show like Voyager got to Last 7 years, while this gets canned. Ah well, I can't watch Enterprise to see the half-assed rip off of John Crichton that is captain Archer (except for the fact that Archer is a complete goody-goody compared to JC) Or watch the blatant rip off comming on Fox called Firefly. This is Farscape except with different names and grade D actors. Anyway, this sucks!

[Magnum357]

Hmmm... well that is too bad. I liked Farscape, but I never got a chance to watch the 3rd season. Any reason why they are cancelling it? Bad Ratings? I've been out of the loop for a while.

I do agree with you about Voyager, that show actually could have been a 100 times better, but they messed it up big time. I would have approached the show in a completely different direction. I've never watched Firefly and don't plan to etheir. It looks stupied from the commercials and if its just a ripoff of Farscape, whats the point???

Thats the probablem with Sifi shows now. If any show gets popular, other networks try to copy the idea and see if they can sell it.

[Deathstalker]

"I've never watched Firefly and don't plan to etheir. It looks stupied from the commercials and if its just a ripoff of Farscape, whats the point??? "

Have faith. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Firefly will be anything but a ripoff with Joss Whedon at the helm. (The man who gave us Buffy, Angel and Aliens:Resurrection.) To compare I remember the beginning of B5 when all my friends called it a ripoff of DS9 and the Narn were just Klingon's in bad makeup. (that and Sinclair acted on the same level as Kirk http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

On the original topic I never really got to know Farscape, always worked when it was on (think I caught one episode which I did like).

[dumbluck]

How do you know it's being cancelled? This is the first I've heard of it. Not that I follow it, either. I work during it's airtime, too. Which kinda sucks, because I've heard nothing but good things about the show...

[Owlman]

Farscape writer David Kemper mentioned the that FS was being cancled at a recent chat. The cast had a cancellation party on Saturday and will finish their season (and final) shoot Tuesday. It was not cancled because of Ratings, in fact it is the Scifi channels number 1 draw. My theory is (Take me seriously) that Fox paid USA Networks to cancel the show. Scifi recived the rerun rights to The X-Files, something they usually could not afford. Now Firefly can run on the same time slot that Farscape did. In stead of competing with Farscape, FF is kind of replacing it. The only reason FS would be taken off the air in real life is beacuse of its high production values. Scifi is apparently content to run reruns of the Dead Zone and SG1 and use the FS money to make more really crappy movies or mini-series. Maybe the next Dune series will actually have a desert and not have a painted wall as a back ground for the great desert.

PS. By the previews, FF is very much a Farscape rip off. A smart *** gun slinger, a tough chick, a big tough guy, a ****, a whiney chick out of her element, a priestess, and they are all on the run from an evil military on board a freighter. The commit crimes to stay alive. Yeah, that is the cast, and very basic plot of Farscape. But then I always though B5 was a cheezy DS9 rip off.

[geoschmo]

Conspiracy theories aside, it is entirely possible that the show is the number one rated show on scifi channel and still losing money because of the higher production costs that you mentioned. Since televsion networks are in business to make money, not because it makes them happy just to have people watching their show. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

It may just be that even though the Ratings were good, they weren't good enough to turn a profit.

Geoschmo

[Gandalph]

Originally posted by Magnum357:
Thats the probablem with Sifi shows now. If any show gets popular, other networks try to copy the idea and see if they can sell it.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This holds true with ALL shows these days.

[disabled]

Firefly is this :
A show that takes place in the west where are cast looks like cowboys from the west that travel around the rest via a spaceship out in the west. This is billed as the Anti-Star Trek.

I can see Fox paying off USA to pull farscape. With the X-Files dead, anything in a competing time slot except Stargate and the Simpsons will get utterly destroyed.

I hate Fox.

Also, Sci-Fi channel is supposed to be producing a mini-series based off the games myst and riven.

[ZeroAdunn]

Yah, it is sad to see farscape go, I thought they had renewed it for another season. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif Geuss not. I can't see them wraping it up by the end of this season, I hope they end it good, not with a crappy cliffhanger. I would really like to see chriton get home, but realise his home is space now.

As for Firefly: It could be good. Don't judge things by the billing. I will wait to see it before I judge. I hope it is good.

Sci Fi is dying.... very sad. Very sad indeed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[AeoN2]

Originally posted by Owlman:
...But then I always though B5 was a cheezy DS9 rip off.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually the truth is probably the other way around in many ways.

What happened is that JMS (creator of B5), was going to many different film studios to try and find someone willing to fund and air his series... since they already had star trek, he decided to visit them first (can't remember what they are called on the top of my head though)

So he talked with them about it, and left them his huge "bible" of B5 material to study, which they did for a month or so...

Then they returned it and said they weren't interested in creating competitors to star trek, so JMS continued his search (ending up at Warner Bros.)

Then, some time later... wham... Deep Space 9 suddenly appears from nowhere... now I'm not saying the creators read all the things in JMS's notes and decided to make a star trek copy, but quite "coincidentaly" it has more than a few likenesses to B5 as mentioned, and it was written after the creators had access to JMS's notes...

--
AeoN2

[edit]
And he also considered sueing them for the ripoff actually... but he was more interested in getting his own series aired than starting a huge fight...

[ September 08, 2002, 20:14: Message edited by: AeoN2 ]

[Hiruu]

I'm with the Owlman...I hate FOX and they are underhanded punks. They try to screw Marvel and Tribune with Mutant X...why? Because of Dark Angel...which was yanked after 2 seasons. They 2nd season of the show tried to go the mutant route and got creamed! FOX will resort to any means to get better Ratings, but they are cracking on all front!

[disabled]

Actually, anyshow involved with Tribune gets royally screwed up.

[Baron Munchausen]

Originally posted by AeoN2:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Owlman:
...But then I always though B5 was a cheezy DS9 rip off.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually the truth is probably the other way around in many ways.

What happened is that JMS (creator of B5), was going to many different film studios to try and find someone willing to fund and air his series... since they already had star trek, he decided to visit them first (can't remember what they are called on the top of my head though)

So he talked with them about it, and left them his huge "bible" of B5 material to study, which they did for a month or so...

Then they returned it and said they weren't interested in creating competitors to star trek, so JMS continued his search (ending up at Warner Bros.)

Then, some time later... wham... Deep Space 9 suddenly appears from nowhere... now I'm not saying the creators read all the things in JMS's notes and decided to make a star trek copy, but quite "coincidentaly" it has more than a few likenesses to B5 as mentioned, and it was written after the creators had access to JMS's notes...

--
AeoN2

[edit]
And he also considered sueing them for the ripoff actually... but he was more interested in getting his own series aired than starting a huge fight...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, if you won't say it, I will. DS9 was a sleazy, deliberate and obvious attempt to 'stamp out' potential competition to the Star Drek Cash Cow and it definitely used huge amounts of detailed material from JMS own outline submitted to Paramount when he was shopping around. You can see story after story in the DS9 'arc' that appears just WEEKS before the same episodes in B5 using the same material. They were obviously hoping that most people would see the Trek episode first and think that B5 was the rip-off, since most people don't visit fan websites or go to conventions or anything like that. Too bad nearly all serious SciFi fans already knew that Trek was too brainless to have anything like a 'story arc', and they could put 2+2 together when JMS said in the fan forums on Usenet and at the conventions that he had submitted his story to Paramount before acceptance by WB. Paramount also aggressively recruited all of the actors who were working on B5, and successfully stole some of them -- forcing some minor revisions of the story line to cover the gaps, and they even pressured stations which were showing the syndicated B5 to move it to some graveyard shift time slot away from Trek or they'd pull their rights to show Trek.

If JMS had bothered to sue he'd undoubtedly have won big, not only on 'theft of intellectual property' but on anti-competitve business practices for the pressure on the independent tv stations. He might well have won enough damages to force Paramount into major financial peril, but in order to do that he'd have had to abandon the project itself, which consumed just about every waking moment of his life for those five years. If he'd not been able to hold it together against the constant attack from Paramount I guess he'd have had plenty to do for the next 5 or 10 years while the lawsuit worked its way through the system. I went sour on Trek some years before TNG ended, but when I saw the unbelievable sleaziness of Paramount in their cynical exploitation of both Trek and someone else's creative work I was pretty much guaranteed of never liking anything produced by Paramount again.

[ September 09, 2002, 01:32: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

[The Canuck]

This really F***in sucks. B5 and farscape are or should i say WERE my favorite Sci-fi series ever. and both have gone down in flames... sort of. i really really hope another station picks up FS if thats possible. also has anyone heard anything about B5: Legend of the Rangers becoming a series?

also DS9 is the most blatant copy of another series ive ever seen, both station got upgraded at the same time, both had wars at the same time, i mean come on, really.

[ September 09, 2002, 02:08: Message edited by: The Canuck ]

[gregebowman]

Well, that really sucks about Farscape. I also haven't been able to watch most episodes due to various reasons. Mainly that the wife isn't a big sci-fi fan and is the "queen of the remote"! I bought the first 2 DVD's when they came out, but haven't been able to get the rest of the series yet. I also like B5 better than DS9, but had trouble watching the entire sereis of both shows. I do think B5 was the better show. I didn't know about JMS going to Paramount first, but I'm not surprised that they may have stolen the idea.

Speaking of the Sci-Fi channel, I hear that they are trying to revive some old shows, such as Battlestar Galactica, Quantum Leap (without the original actors) and a couple of other shows. These I will have to watch if they are ever produced. Also, I hear that NBC is trying to revive Lost In Space (God, please let them do a serious show, like they did in the movie. I couldn't stand all of that camp in the original series). Also, Fox is supposed to resurrecting The Time Tunnel, one of my favorite shows as a kid. Can't wait.

[ September 09, 2002, 02:44: Message edited by: gregebowman ]

[disabled]

Time tunnel, there's an old friend long lost.

I heard somewhere johnathan frakes is involved in a remake of the prisoner.

I should point out something here, everything coming out is a remake.

[AeoN2]

Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by AeoN2:
can't remember what they are called on the top of my head though<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, if you won't say it, I will. DS9 was a sleazy, deliberate and obvious attempt to 'stamp out' potential competition to the Star Drek Cash Cow and it definitely used huge amounts of detailed material from JMS own outline submitted to Paramount when he was shopping around.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Paramount... Guess I had subconsciously wiped my memory of that name http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

I had the pleasure to meet Patricia Tallman (plays the telepath Lyta Alexander) at a convention I attended, and she left me with no doubt in my mind that JMS and the cast are all incredibly nice and funny people... Too bad nice guys finish Last...

--
AeoN2

[edit: grammar, it's 6:40 in the morning for gawd sakes]

[ September 09, 2002, 05:43: Message edited by: AeoN2 ]

[dumbluck]

Originally posted by Hadrian Tyrael S. Aventine:
Time tunnel, there's an old friend long lost.

I heard somewhere johnathan frakes is involved in a remake of the prisoner.

I should point out something here, everything coming out is a remake.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh, you noticed that, too? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif It won't be long now before they start making remakes of really campy shows like The Flintstones, Scooby Doo, and.... Oh, wait a minute..... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ September 09, 2002, 09:05: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

[Perrin]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Conspiracy theories aside, it is entirely possible that the show is the number one rated show on scifi channel and still losing money because of the higher production costs that you mentioned. Since televsion networks are in business to make money, not because it makes them happy just to have people watching their show. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

It may just be that even though the Ratings were good, they weren't good enough to turn a profit.

Geoschmo<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is the exact reason that the original Battlestar Galactica was cancelled. The high production costs forced the network to pull the plug. Ratings wise, it was the most watched show of its time. Celebrities were lining up to do walk on bit parts.

Unfortunately, qualtiy television costs money. Trash you can find, in the can outside, for free.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[mac5732]

can you imagine the production costs for a series based on SE4 would be, it would be highly rated like Galactica and some of the others, but would probably be cancelled because of costs, yet I would think with Tech today that graphics would be cheaper due to computers then the older ways

mac

[Captain Kwok]

"Best Sci-Fi series ever"

Hardly.

[Owlman]

Kwok, what do you consider the best Scifi series ever? Name another Scifi show were the ENTIRE CAST could act. Yeah...

TOS: Worse acting and writting than Lost in Space.
ST:TNG: No story arcs at all
Voyager: Sucked
DS9: Best Trek, even if it was a rip off of B5, actually people besides the Captain that could act, story lines were actually connected sometimes.
B5: Could never watch more than five minutes, the damn race of Napoleans freaked me out.

[TerranC]

Originally posted by Owlman:
Kwok, what do you consider the best Scifi series ever? Name another Scifi show were the ENTIRE CAST could act. Yeah...

TOS: Worse acting and writting than Lost in Space.
ST:TNG: No story arcs at all
Voyager: Sucked
DS9: Best Trek, even if it was a rip off of B5, actually people besides the Captain that could act, story lines were actually connected sometimes.
B5: Could never watch more than five minutes, the damn race of Napoleans freaked me out.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Get out of my sight!
And Napoleons? They weren't Napoleons! They were imperialistic!

[TimMcBride]

Originally posted by Owlman:
Kwok, what do you consider the best Scifi series ever? Name another Scifi show were the ENTIRE CAST could act. Yeah...
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You know I always liked "Space: Above and Beyond"......
It probally doesn't qualify for the bgest sci fi but it comes close for me.

_Tim

[disabled]

I did some more checking, did you know Farscape was filmed on Fox Studios Austrailia?

I bet that had a major part in killing it.

As for a SE4 based TV series, I think it would be very affordable if done with all-CGI characters. Live action and puppet contruction would raise costs drastically. CGI is the way to go.

Now another issue with that pops up, most TV markets are strongly against an cgi series geared for intelligent people. This is a result of various high-named actors condemning the movies like Final Fantasy & S1MONE for use of CGI actors. (S1MONe didn't use a CGi actress, but they made everyone think it).

Japan and Korea would be great markets for a CGi SE4 series.

[TerranC]

Originally posted by Hadrian Tyrael S. Aventine:
Japan and Korea would be great markets for a CGi SE4 series.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Why? and Why only the Far East?

Europe and Australia, also Canada will probably take it up a lot. America and others... It's a maybe.

Edit: Simone used a Canadian model.

[ September 10, 2002, 03:25: Message edited by: TerranC ]

[raynor]

I just watched a season one episode of ST:TNG called The Neutral Zone where they rescue some crionically frozen folks from the 20th Century. Picard strongly emphasizes how people in the 24th century don't pursue material possessions anymore.

Bagh!! I'm a big fan of Star Trek. But this philosophy that everyone is going to spend all their time in the future trying to better themselves is just a bit too much to stomach.

I really like Babylon 5. It seems a much more realistic look at the future. Everything is pretty much the same as it is now but the technology is a little improved.

I think B5 should rate as the best sci-fi show simply because of the consistent plot throughout the entire series.

Farscape? Isn't that muppets in space?

The Prisoner was an interesting show. I think it might be interesting to see a modern Version of that.

[dogscoff]

I think B5 should rate as the best sci-fi show simply because of the consistent plot throughout the entire series.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed. And also (as you suggested) becasue it is such a realistic vision of the future. Neither dystopian nor utopian.


Farscape? Isn't that muppets in space?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, but Muppets in Space was a damn fine film. In fact, I'd have to say it was the best Sci-fi film/ show EVER, because everything else sucks and what I like is best.

Sorry http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by raynor:
I just watched a season one episode of ST:TNG called The Neutral Zone where they rescue some crionically frozen folks from the 20th Century. Picard strongly emphasizes how people in the 24th century don't pursue material possessions anymore.

Bagh!! I'm a big fan of Star Trek. But this philosophy that everyone is going to spend all their time in the future trying to better themselves is just a bit too much to stomach.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That was Roddenberry's vision of the future. It does tend to make Trek a little preachey at times. You almost find yourself rooting for the bad guys just because they are so much more interesting.

I hate to say it, and wouldn't dare to say it at a Trek converntion http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif , but I think TNG got better after Gene died. DS9 was definetly better. I even liked Voyager, although that gets a lot of scorn from most people, though I am not exactly sure why.

What I have seen of B5 I liked. It's one of my regrets that I never got to watch it from the begining. In my town it always was getting bumped around to different times, and sometimesz different channels in the early seasons. By the time it settled down and was always on one channel at one time I had missed so much of the storyline that I felt lost.

Maybe somebody will rebroadcast it from the begining some day, or I'll get rich and buy the DVD's. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Geoschmo

[Nodachi]

The reason I love Farscape is that the show is about the characters, not the trappings around them (although Moya does count as a character to me). The show's "don't sweat the details" approach to high-tech is a vast departure from modern scifi, and it worked. The character interaction is what made people fans of the show. Too many scifi shows focus on the gadgets and whatnots. Whenever the Ratings started to slip these shows would have to one-up themselves to pull their audience back in- "Captain our Ratings are dropping! Quick, blow up the ship so we can get a new one!" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Oh well, enough rambling. Suffice to say I'm sadded by the loss of my friends on Moya. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Growltigga]

Hmmm.. speculation aside, I consider that it is interesting to see how people reacted to the various Trek derivatives. I think it is fair to say that DS9 was well received, and those of us who like classic space-opera-esque plot lines with massive battles etc probably found that to be the best one. VOY appears to be universally recognised as the weakest link.

Enterprise has only been on for about 6 weeks over here in the UK but I think the general perception is that it is good. I personally do like the show but do not see how it fits in with any of the "established" history. I mean, IIRC, the first romulan wars were fought with lasers and nuclear missile 'blind' between Earth and the Romulans, neither side knew what the other looked like. Also, wasn't Sol system meant to be attacked 4 times by the Kzinti pre-Federation days? and since when were the Vulcans a horrible bunch of nasty oiks scrapping with the Andorians?

My personal favourite is B5. Good earthy storylines with a bot of ahem, risque/violent overtones and a long running plot. Also, nice to see the humans being one of th weaker races in the galaxy and not a bunch of noble, altruistic heroes

I did like Space: ABAB if only cos it was on late Friday nights just as I got home from the pub. Did they only make 1 series of that? I remeber the Last episode had a peace treaty where Aerotech and the Chigs were going to be shown to have some connection but that is as far as I recall. Anyone clarify this?

[ September 10, 2002, 13:27: Message edited by: Growltigga ]

[Perrin]

Originally posted by Nodachi:
"Captain our Ratings are dropping! Quick, blow up the ship so we can get a new one!" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">More like Quick bring back the Borg.

I believe that B5 was so good because it's plot was a set of designed events leading to end. The was no quest too seek out new seasons. In fact the only times that the plot suffered was when they were going to get canceled early and the creator excelerated the plot line. But then they got renewed so he had to try and slow it back down. In fact to make sure the series ended they scrapped the station in the final episode.

B5 Excalibur was going to be a great series (plenty of complex characters with room to grow) until Turner demanded that the creator sex it up more. The creator said no the series is fine. Turner said if you don't do what I say the series is canceled. The creator replied then I guess I'm cancelled. ( Screw you Turner you couldn't leave a good thing alone)

DS9 was really god too. They didn't have to resort to the Borg like TNG and Voyager (and Voyager had to resort to Busty Blonds in skin tight uniforms. ( Not that there is anything wrong with that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )).

One of my favorite DS9 episodes was when Q shows up on the station.
Q: "You hit me! Picard never hit me!
Cisco: "I am NOT Picard!

Of course DS9 didn't get really good until Cisco Shaved his head and went back to his Hawk persona from Spencer for Hire.

[ September 10, 2002, 14:00: Message edited by: Perrin ]

[dogscoff]

I remeber the Last episode had a peace treaty where Aerotech and the Chigs were going to be shown to have some connection but that is as far as I recall. Anyone clarify this?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Uhhh... vaguely. I had something to do with the Chigs have originated on Earth before humans arrived and/ or evolved there, so they thought they hasd a claim to it.
There was something about treacherous peace-treaty negotiations as well, probably in the same episode, but it was along time ago and I never watched that show sober.

Actually, despite all my whingings about S:A&B, one thing I did like was the fact that very little was known about the Chigs. You never saw under their armour and only at the very end of the series did anyone successfully communicate with them. That was good, and probably quite realistic. If we ever do meet alien life forms it will be very difficult to learn to talk to them. .

[Growltigga]

really? strange how the CHigs originated on Earth when they couldn't breathe oxygen or something.

I liked the spaceships in S:ABAB. The carriers I thought looked very cool and the hammerhead fighter were well groovy with those rear cannon

Anyone see those two episodes with Chiggy Von Richtofen?

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Perrin:
[QUOTE]One of my favorite DS9 episodes was when Q shows up on the station.
Q: "You hit me! Picard never hit me!
Cisco: "I am NOT Picard!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not only was that a very funny line, it had a dark undertone because at the time Cisco was very much still blaming Picard for the death of his wife at Wolf 359. That was one of the best things about DS9 was the characters had so much depth. The writing on that show was just so much better than any other Trek.

Geoschmo

[dogscoff]

really? strange how the CHigs originated on Earth when they couldn't breathe oxygen or something.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Like I say, I was drunk. I think it was something to do with bacteria floating around on rocks in space... the bacteria that evolved into Chigs started on an Earth rock, and the human bacteria originated on Mars.
I think. Maybe. I dunno. It all sounds about right, but it would have been about '97 I saw this, and at the time reeling under the appalling hallucinatory influence of student homebrew lager. That's the Last time I watched any S:A&B though.


The carriers I thought looked very cool
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I remember them looking like modern aircraft carriers in dumped space. I was surprised they bothered taking the propellors & rudders off. Still, no accounting for taste...

[ September 10, 2002, 14:45: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

[Growltigga]

Originally posted by dogscoff:
[QUOTE]
and at the time reeling under the appalling hallucinatory influence of student homebrew lager. That's the Last time I watched any S:A&B though.

I was surprised they bothered taking the propellors & rudders off. Still, no accounting for taste...<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I suspect your homebrew was made out of head and shoulders shampoo and washing up liquid.

and I LIKED THE CARRIERS, they looked like chunky mean rectangular things with a rear bridge and stacks of cannon and rocket launchers... and this critcism from a man who thinks spaceships have horns and dragonheads...

lord knows when you will do a Captain Pugwash or Noggin the Nog race

[geoschmo]

BURN!* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

*King's English translation: "Touche Gt!" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 10, 2002, 15:25: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[ckotchey]

So Farscape gets cancelled, but somehow Lexx continues to live. Life is unfair.

[dogscoff]

spaceships have horns and dragonheads.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">They do. Mine do anyway. I mean, I've never seen a real, live spaceship without horns and dragonheads...

[dogscoff]

So Farscape gets cancelled, but somehow Lexx continues to live. Life is unfair
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm not in any way suggesting that Lexx is superior to FS (I realy liked FS) but I seem to remember watching lexx and thinking that while it definitely had its downside (ie impossible to follow the plot without taking LSD first) it also had a few good things. Some of the alien designs were cool, and it was pretty... umm.. imaginative in general. Again, this was aired in the UK in the Great Memory Lapse of 1995-1999, when I was "studying".

[ckotchey]

Actually, I started watching Lexx sometime near the end of the first or beginning of the 2nd season (?) out of curiosity. I agree with you - it was pretty bad, but there were enough interesting things in the show that kept me watching. Once, I saw the original 4 movies the series was based on, and was actually stunned at how GOOD the first one was. (The other were really bad, as usual). But once they started that new season with Fire & Water and that Prince guy, I couldn't take it anymore.

[Growltigga]

Originally posted by dogscoff:

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">They do. Mine do anyway. I mean, I've never seen a real, live spaceship without horns and dragonheads...[/QUOTE]

hmm, me thinks you are suffering long term effects from that student homebrew of yours, unless it is because you really are a lager wendy.

What do you define as a "spaceship"? I consider the space shuttle to be a 'spaceship' and I haven't seen any horns or dragonheads on that, galileo and voyager were spaceships and were noted for lack of norse paraphanalia..

I didnt see many Farscapes but I did like that D'argo character (how many todgers does he have growing out of his head?) and as for that Aeryn bird, WOOF WOOF WOOOF WOOOF, brunettes in PVC catsuits with laser guns do it for me everytime (especially when she was in that monster movie pitch black)

AWOOG AWOOGA AWOOGA

[ September 10, 2002, 15:39: Message edited by: Growltigga ]

[dogscoff]

What do you define as a "spaceship"? I consider the space shuttle to be a 'spaceship' and I haven't seen any horns or dragonheads on that, galileo and voyager were spaceships and were noted for lack of norse paraphanalia..
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Those are real? I assumed they were just computer generated US propaganda, like the moon landings and Jimi Hendrix.

[dogscoff]

and as for that Aeryn bird, WOOF WOOF WOOOF WOOOF, brunettes in PVC catsuits with laser guns do it for me everytime
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not disagreeing with you, but I think I'd go for the short blue one (not the mystic, dead blue one) every time.


(especially when she was in that monster movie pitch black)<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">V. cool film. Agreed.

Is this going to descend into a fanboy-favourites thread where we all drool over the obligatory T&A cynically crowbarred into Sci fi? I hope so http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Growltigga]

Not disagreeing with you, but I think I'd go for the short blue one (not the mystic, dead blue one) every time.

Well, we therefore have the perfect double date, you get the freaky blue bird who looks like the lenor has stained, I get the roughty toughty brunette with biceps and thigh muscles that could crack coconuts - YIPEEE!!!!

Is this going to descend into a fanboy-favourites thread where we all drool over the obligatory T&A cynically crowbarred into Sci fi?

I hope so to, my top 3 would be 7of9 (where does she get those zero gravity hooters and frankly, out of 10, I'd give her one), Wilma Deering from the original Buck Rogers (schoolboy fantasy or what) and I quite like the Andromeda avatar from Andromeda (exotic, erotic and looks like she would do a mean nasi goreng)

[ September 10, 2002, 16:41: Message edited by: Growltigga ]

[Growltigga]

Originally posted by dogscoff:

Those are real? I assumed they were just computer generated US propaganda, like the moon landings and Jimi Hendrix.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Jimi Hendrix was the second best left handed guitarist ni the history of the galaxy, after yours truly

[Perrin]

Originally posted by dogscoff:
Those are real? I assumed they were just computer generated US propaganda, like the moon landings and Jimi Hendrix.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Do not forget the lesson of Galaxy Quest what may be a television show to us may be reality to some alien culture.

[ September 10, 2002, 16:47: Message edited by: Perrin ]

[sachmo]

I'm interested in Firefly. Will it make it? Probably not.

[Growltigga]

Can you north americans give FireFly a bit of support cos' if it gets cancelled, us europeans wont get to see it.

A quick aside, was Farscape anything to do with Australia as a lot of the actors seemed to have antipodean accents?

[sachmo]

Originally posted by Growltigga:
Can you north americans give FireFly a bit of support cos' if it gets cancelled, us europeans wont get to see it.

A quick aside, was Farscape anything to do with Australia as a lot of the actors seemed to have antipodean accents?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'll do my part, Tigga, but I'm afraid that may not be enough. At least I hope it stays on Friday and doesn't try to move to Sunday.

[ckotchey]

Originally posted by Growltigga:
A quick aside, was Farscape anything to do with Australia as a lot of the actors seemed to have antipodean accents?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I do believe it is filmed in Australia somewhere, which is probably why they have so many Aussie accents & such on the show.

[Lemmy]

did anyone post this before?
http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/SAVE_FARSCAPE/
a petition to save farscape.

[Atrocities]

Rumor has it that Farscape my be picked up by UPN or another syndicated network.

Ya right. Sci-Fi just does not have the cash flow needed to keep the series alive. At nearly 1,000,000 an episode Sci-Fi just can't keep producing it when it only gets half that in advertising sales. The rest is made up through re-run sales, and licensing scemes.

Why oh why they haven't made toys, books, PC & Consule games based upon the series one will never know.

I am not a big fan of the Sci-Fi channel because they are a poor cable network.

Farscape is a confirmed success, any other network would be lucky to pick up this franchise and run with it. Lets hope that happens.

[pathfinder]

Just FYI Atrocities: There IS a PC game based on Farscape. it just hit the shelves the Last couple of weeks (seen at Software, etc).

[Owlman]

The only problem about Farscape moving to a network how be the fact that the network would have to edit out alot of the violence, sex, drugs, and language that are a crucial part of Farscape. If the network gave Rockne O'bannon full creative control over it and didn't cut funding, than that would rock. Hopefully Scifi will come to their senses and keep their key show. For every crappy movie they make, they could make a season of FS. But if a network picks it up and dosen't screw with it, then F**k Scifi. Farscape powered by Smackdown!, I love it!

[ZeroAdunn]

You don't watch much network TV do ya? Sex Drugs and Violance is what it is all about....

Cable only throws a little rock and roll in the mix http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Perrin]

Hey with the new mandatory Ratings system you could theoretically have almost anything on TV. Look at South Park for example. It may mean that FS would have to be on later at night but thats why they made VCR's and TIVO.

[mac5732]

How about the original Flash Gordon Series way back when... it was quite popular back in the old days, before computers, graphic enhancements, etc.. (the good old days ) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

mac

[Growltigga]

Yeah, the original Flash Gordon was well swervy - I did particularily like the way someone had stuffed roman candles up the backsides of the rocket ships and then ran a magimix to get the sound effects

[dogscoff]

I'd still love to see a Dan Dare series and/or film, but sticking to the style and spirit of the 50's original, ie rockets full of valves and pipes and things rather than circuitry and computers, and control panels with big levers in primary colours, and blocky robots that look like they've been made out of boxes...

That reminds me. Check out www.robotbastard.com (http://www.robotbastard.com) - 40 meg download but well worth it. It's by the same guy as the excellent "Scud: Disposible Assasin".

[Growltigga]

Originally posted by dogscoff:
I'd still love to see a Dan Dare series and/or film, but sticking to the style and spirit of the 50's original, ie rockets full of valves and pipes and things rather than circuitry and computers, and control panels with big levers in primary colours, and blocky robots that look like they've been made out of boxes...<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You mean like the Flash Gordon movie?

I love that, I am always trying to slip lines from it into polite business conversation... things like 'Gordon's alive??' or 'Squadron 40! DIIIVVVVVEEEEEEEEE'

[dogscoff]

'Squadron 40! DIIIVVVVVEEEEEEEEE'
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Brian Blessed has to be one of the coolest people on the face of the planet, and one of my role models.
How many other people in the Last 100 years can claim to have made a career out of wearing chain mail and shouting?

The coolest thing of all is that he used to be member of parliament, too...

[Growltigga]

I would like to make a career out of wearing chain mail and shouting

"THE PEOPLE OF STOKE ARE REVOLTING, I SHALL BARE MY BROAD BUTTOCKS TO THE BATTLEMENTS OF THE PEOPLE OF STOKE AND ASK THEM TO BULLSEYE THAT'

brilliant, he is absolutely brilliant. I would like to go and get smashed with Brian Blessed, Rory McGrath, Jonathan Woss and Rolf Harris - that would be fun

[dogscoff]

brilliant, he is absolutely brilliant. I would like to go and get smashed with Brian Blessed, Rory McGrath, Jonathan Woss and Rolf Harris - that would be fun
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not sure about Woss but the others wwould be good to go drinking with. Also (sir) Patrick Moore, and any one of about a dozen stand up comics.

There's a bit of an urban myth about Rolf Harris, that one day he left a TV studio to be greeted by the R.H. appreciation society- 20 odd students doing bad impersonations whilst wearing dodgy fake facial hair and sporting home made digeridoos & wobble Boards. The story goes that he found it really funny and went out on the piss with them.

[Growltigga]

I think Woss would be quite a laugh, Patrick Moore could be a scream but also Bob Holness should be there.

Thinking about it, if you had the cast of They Think It Is All Over plus Rolfy and Brian, what a cracking 10 pints, curry and nightclub outing that would be!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I saw Rolf when they opened the Rolf Harris bar at Keele University - brilliant, he was very funny and amusing

[DirectorTsaarx]

Originally posted by ckotchey:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Growltigga:
A quick aside, was Farscape anything to do with Australia as a lot of the actors seemed to have antipodean accents?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I do believe it is filmed in Australia somewhere, which is probably why they have so many Aussie accents & such on the show.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ummm, Hadrian posted a day or so ago that Farscape was filmed at Fox Studios Australia...

[Wardad]

Actually I found that following the series schedule on SCI-FI network was pretty difficult. I do not watch much television, and certainly do not review the schedules on a daily basis.
SCI-FI was moving the times around, sometimes no show one week, sometimes several repeats another. You almost need a computer just to search SCI-FI network schedules.
There were so many damn commercials, I could not be bothered to watch the show live.
I almost wish my computer could down load all of my Cable networks schedules, sort out my Favorites, program my VCR, and edit the commercials.
...Maybe I'll just by the BOXED DVD set when it comes out...

[Captain Kwok]

I hope we're not still crying about this. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Captain Kwok]

Ooh...I just saw something on CNN Headline News, there is some sort of letter campaign/web petition thing going on to save Farscape. What are these people thinking?

[Major Tom]

I think that a letter campaign is a good thing. How else are the REAL viewers of TV supposed to express their desires? If we just let the networks decide what is on TV, all that there will be are Reality TV, Friends and ER. These shows are basically braindead, that appeal to the masses. Nobody really loves these shows, but a lot of people watch them. However, Farscape has a smaller audience, but it is much more loyal. Realistically, letter campaigns are the only way to safeguard quality TV (if there is such a thing). Otherwize, Ratings are all that matters, and quality TV does not bring Ratings.

[Captain Kwok]

I disagree with you statement that a lot of people don't fanatically love the shows you mentioned. There are a lot of people who watched them just as religiously as most of us sci-fi geeks watch our shows.

[sachmo]

Petitions are good for the fans, but to the networks they make very little difference. So far I have seen petitions to save Family Guy, Futurama, Married with Children, and Friends. They do get some media coverage, but they don't mean squat to the network, unfortunately. Now if all of the petitioners put a check for $1, that might make a difference! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Magnum357]

I agree with Caption about a huge group of fans tha watch these sitcoms and reality shows religiously. A couple of months ago, I was working part time at a college with a lot of young teenagers their and they where watching an MTV show (I can't remember what it was called) where young idiots would do anything for money. Their was one part girls in Bikinis where told to eat chopped up worms or kiss some guys butt wearing their own thong bikinis. If they did it, they would get money. All thought it was disgusting, yet these kids loved it! I even asked a couple "why not watch something a little more educational?". I'm 26 and they looked at me like I was some sort of Alien or something. Next day, they were watching the same programs. Maybe I'm starting to get old at the age of 26 but these reality shows (whether its game shows or some stupied "Big Brother" show) seem like a total waste of film.

I've heard that we are copying these shows from some Third world countries like south America! Why the heck are we watching stuff made by third world societies?

[Growltigga]

Bring back Blakes 7

[Atrocities]

If you want to write to someone about stopping the cancellation of FS, then visit this site. It has the addresses and such to do just that.

http://www.pgniteshade.com/exquisiteirony/savefarscape.html

[disabled]

To let you know about petitions, they go into the trash can. Every single one in history has been trashed withuot reading.

You want results, letter writing campaign. Hundreds of billions of letters.

Processing that mail costs money and the studios know that.

Thank Bjo Trimble for proving that.

[raynor]

Babylon 5 Season 1 DVD Pre-order (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00006HAZ4/thelurkersguidet/102-0801757-8379336)

[disabled]

A little update, I found this tidbit to be interesting....

"Hot off the press from our source in the US!!
Stargate is to return for a seventh season on the US Sci Fi channel network. After months of speculation Stargate has been given the green light. Whilst details remain sketchy it appears that most of the cast will be returning. There appears to be no confirmation yet on whether Richard Dean Anderson will make more than a few guest starring appearances. This follows his statement earlier this year of his intention to semi retire from the world of acting to concentrate on his environmental activities.

The seventh season has come at a high cost for Sci Fi channel, they seem to have sacrificed there widely acclaimed series Farscape to help pay for the cost of Stargate SG-1, estimated at $1.3 million an episode.

There also appears to be a renewed interest in a spin off series. "

[LordZon]

Bring back the Doctor! Doctor Who... with out the stupid fox treatment. Half human?!?!

Why doesn't Sci Fi show Blake's Seven and Doctor Who? I'd watch if they would show all the great british Sci Fi. They could even throw Red Dwarf in the mix.

LordZon

[gregebowman]

Originally posted by LordZon:
Bring back the Doctor! Doctor Who... with out the stupid fox treatment. Half human?!?!

Why doesn't Sci Fi show Blake's Seven and Doctor Who? I'd watch if they would show all the great british Sci Fi. They could even throw Red Dwarf in the mix.

LordZon<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hear!! Hear!! I'd love to see a new updated Version of Doctor Who. I must admit I kind of liked that "stupid fox treatment", but making him half-human would kind of explain why he's always meddling in human affairs and has a human or two for sidekicks. But if they do make a new Doctor Who, I hope they have someone who will make sure that all of the script writers keep to the same bible. It seemed like every time there was a new Doctor, that once he went into a future earth society, it was always different from the Last Doctor's visit. Of course, with as much interference into the timeline as the Doctor did, it's not surprising we would see different futures.

Also, I'd love to see more of Red Dwarf. I think that is one of the funniest shows I've ever seen. And they say the Brits don't have a sense of humor! The only thing that would the show more enjoyable would be to know what all of the slang terms they use. I can understand most of what they say, but sometimes something is said that makes me scratch my head and say "Huh?". Does anyone know if there was any more seasons after season 8? I have 1-7 on tape, and even though I want to buy the 8th season, I heard they are finall going to put Red Dward on dvd. So I'm anxiously waiting for that event to happen. Does anyone know anything more about this?

[Perrin]

Originally posted by LordZon:
Bring back the Doctor! Doctor Who... with out the stupid fox treatment. Half human?!?!

Why doesn't Sci Fi show Blake's Seven and Doctor Who? I'd watch if they would show all the great british Sci Fi. They could even throw Red Dwarf in the mix.

LordZon<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">But what then would PBS show?! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[disabled]

Cring in terror, Jerry Lewis telethones

[Growltigga]

And they say the Brits don't have a sense of humor!

Only complete smegheads say that. Normally only people walking round with "H"'s on their foreheads with middle names of Judas say that

[tesco samoa]

http://www.inscifi.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2383

[sachmo]

Don't forget to watch Firefly tonight.

[tesco samoa]

The Shield is on as well

And those with hbo... check out the wire...

Good show...

[Gandalph]

Originally posted by sachmo:
Don't forget to watch Firefly tonight.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Watched it, wasn't impressed. I will, as usual, give a new show more than one episode to prove itself but, like I said, I wasn't impressed by this one.

[Major Tom]

After watching 'Firefly', here are some of my observations...

#1. Cowboys in space. This has been done before, and is actually presently being done. Something called "Donte Montana" is out there on the Space network, which has a very similar cast, except that their spaceship is a bountyhunter vessel instead of a trading vessel, but very similar clothes and universe.

#2. The 'evil empire' is pretty tame. Watching the discussion on that battleship, or whatever, between the military crew, these guys were more casual then the orignal Star Trek crew.

#3. Too many humans of 2 dimensional characters. You have your self centred crewman, your physically strong woman, your mentally strong woman, your weak woman, your smart yet wimpy doctor, your old guy, your pilot, and your tough, yet downright morally good, lead character.

#4. Their ship effects are good, but any show can have good effects.

#5. The episode I saw was a combination of Aliens, Alien Reserection, Event Horizon and The Good the Bad and the Ugly.

#6. Basically, it another "Andromeda", but with 'attitude' and 'proactiveness' (something Simpsons followers might find amusing).

I heard that the show is already in trouble, having even lower Ratings then Farscape (which had a very loyal following).

[sachmo]

Sad to hear the show is already in trouble. I quite enjoy it...at first I thought they were trying too hard, but with the second show, it seems to me that the characters might be deeper than I thought. Or it could be complete crap...I'll have to see more.

[Ruatha]

I really tried to like Farscape, saw the first 4 episodes but was quite bored.
Now Andromeda is pLastic but it's made with humour and it doesn't bore me as much.

Yes B5 was really good, especially the plot, Oh how I miss that one.
OT: SW2 was a really good movie, the best in the series so far http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
Only seen some episodes of LEXX and altough it seemed low on the plot it was quite funny in a Red Dwarf way.

But cancelling Farscape - I won't shed any tears http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ September 30, 2002, 18:44: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[Crazy_Dog]

For me, the best is B5 because is the one that have a real plot, great acting and consistency.

[Deathstalker]

QUOTE:

"After watching 'Firefly', here are some of my observations...

#1. Cowboys in space. This has been done before, and is actually presently being done. Something called "Donte Montana" is out there on the Space network, which has a very similar cast, except that their spaceship is a bountyhunter vessel instead of a trading vessel, but very similar clothes and universe.

#2. The 'evil empire' is pretty tame. Watching the discussion on that battleship, or whatever, between the military crew, these guys were more casual then the orignal Star Trek crew.

#3. Too many humans of 2 dimensional characters. You have your self centred crewman, your physically strong woman, your mentally strong woman, your weak woman, your smart yet wimpy doctor, your old guy, your pilot, and your tough, yet downright morally good, lead character.

#4. Their ship effects are good, but any show can have good effects.

#5. The episode I saw was a combination of Aliens, Alien Reserection, Event Horizon and The Good the Bad and the Ugly.

#6. Basically, it another "Andromeda", but with 'attitude' and 'proactiveness' (something Simpsons followers might find amusing).

I heard that the show is already in trouble, having even lower Ratings then Farscape (which had a very loyal following). "

Just to slightly defend (first off, I am a great fan of Joss Whedon, really like his directing)

1) There are NO original ideas any more. Just original ways to implement them. To take a look at another genre (say comic books) you can say that every hero is just a copy of Superman. (ie. The Flash, both him and Supes have superspeed, it's how the writer/artist pull it off that is different.)

2) Did'nt see the pilot (unfortunately, worked and missed it.) but I did enjoy the second episode. That and the pilot was not the original one that was to be showed (kinda like Star Trek, the first show was considered too 'cerebral' for us poor viewers to 'get it', so the network had Joss do a different pilot for its opener. We may see the 'origin episode' around episode 4 or 5 I think).

3) Again, all shows have basicly the same characters. Compare 'Chicago Hope' and 'ER', same basic characters. Totally different result. Or even take a look at 'franchise'shows like the 2 or 3 Law and Order's that are out there. Same characters really (how many times have we seen a 'slightly bad-good-harrassed but morally right cop'?) but its up to the writers to pull it off (which I think Dick Wolf lets them do nicely).

4) True, any show can have good effects. But we as fans really are to fault here. One of the best and longest running sci-fi shows is Dr. Who (IMO of course, but running 20+ years IS a major feat). But if you put out a show with it's effects/budget tomorrow it would die a horrible Ratings death really fast! I mean, really, would you watch your favorite sci-fi show it they had effects that looked like that? (or if say the new Star Trek movie came out and you could see the strings holding up the ship {which you could in an old episode IIRC} how upset would you be no matter how good the acting?)

5) Whedon wrote Aliens:Ressurrection, so its natural he may want to carry over some of his 'themes'. Look at 'Buffy' and 'Angel'. Both his shows, both can be argued as the same (one evolved from the other) but actually watching them you see they are totally different. (he must be doing something right, for a mid season replacement 'Buffy' just started its 7th season!).

6) Don't watch Andomeda so I can't comment.

7) the show is in trouble? where exactly did you find the figues? (I'd love to see them out of curiositys sake).

Personally I'm just gonna trust a writer I admire and watch the characters develop over the next season to make my full judgement (just like I'm saving my final view of the current Star Wars trilogy till the next one is done, when viewed as a whole even Jar Jar might make some sense!)

(hope I dont sound like a flame, just trying to defend the show somewhat. Even if I did only see one episode).

[ October 01, 2002, 10:24: Message edited by: Deathstalker ]

[Captain Kwok]

Originally posted by Crazy_Dog:
For me, the best is B5 because is the one that have a real plot, great acting and consistency.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Great acting is always relative in Sci-Fi TV... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Major Tom]

Here is a link to another BB that I found, which does discuss posted information on some Internet news sites.

http://trekbbs.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/012606.html

Basically, it states the history of Fox dumping shows that require time in order to gain a following. Sci-Fi shows are never ever going to give you a high loyal following right away. They require years of individuals watching in order for them to really become fans. Having the show on Fridays is a definite bad sign, as ever since TGIF bombed, TV watching on Friday nights is one of the lowest. They moved the show 'John Doe' to Mondays, when it was on Friday. The longer that Firefly stays on at 8:00 on Friday, the better chance that it has in dying off. It would have a much better chance in surviving if it was given a place on Sunday night TV, where FOX makes its killing.

Basically, FOX has a history of cancelling shows that do not immediately show financial promise. They have one of the highest rates of TV cancelling, close to ABC, and they have probably the highest rate of cancelling quality TV. Indeed, there is a lot of hype around this show being a good seller primarily because Joss is involved in it. However, it took a long time before Buffy the Vampire Slayer became a hit, and it was primarily a hit because there was nothing else like it, and it was very well written (however, the Last few seasons have been dragging on...). Firefly may be well written, but I don't think it will get enough time in order to develop into a good seiries, given FOX's track record.

FOX basically wants every show to be as immediately popular as comparable shows. When the Family Guy and Futurama failed to meet the same following as the Simpsons, they were cut, even though it took the Simpsons years to get to the point that they currently are. The Lone Gunmen was cancelled when it did not grab the attention of the entire X-Files community, even though the X-Files did not become a major hit until well into its second season.

Recently, I am noticing more and more television shows flopping year after year, with more reruns being put in their place. I think that TV corporations are getting way too greedy in that they expect that if a show is not immediately a hit, it will never be. Most of the great television, especially Science Fiction, requires years of development before they gain a large and loyal audience.

Star Trek the original series, was cancelled after 3 years, primarily because of the same problem that Firefly is facing, it was put in a bad timeslot. Firefly may make it, if they are given enough time to develop, and a better time in which to show it.

It is amazing the number of high quality Science Fiction television shows that we get up here on the Canadian Space Channel, like G. vs. E., Harsh Realm, Third Wave, etc.. that when we get them they were already in syndication because they were cancelled in the US. Seeing what was cancelled by FOX in the past, it really does not give Firefly much of a fighting chance, unless Joss uses his clout to keep the show afloat (however, even Chris Carter, the creator of the biggest FOX moneybag show, was unable to keep Lone Gunmen and Millenium on TV).

[ October 01, 2002, 15:30: Message edited by: Major Tom ]

[Major Tom]

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Crazy_Dog:
For me, the best is B5 because is the one that have a real plot, great acting and consistency.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Great acting is always relative in Sci-Fi TV... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This may just be my ignorance, but I just found out that Bruce Boxleitner (Captain John Sheridan of B5) and Melissa Gilbert (Captain John Sheridan's dead wife on B5, and Little House on the Prarie star) are actually married. Just found out on a preview of Melissa Gilbert's biography the other day. You learn something new all the time...

[Major Tom]

The other reason why I do not think Firefly will Last very long on Fox, is due to its unoriginal subject matter.

When the Simpsons, X-Files and Buffy the Vampire Slayer (even though this is on WB) came out, there really was not anything on TV like them. Because they were really individual shows, without comparison or real competition, they were able to flourish much better then shows that have a lot of competition over similar subject matter.

Firefly has a lot of competition out there. Enterprise, Farscape (especially due to the fact that 50% of the already completed episodes have yet to be released in many areas), Andromeda, that Montana show, along with the recent memory of DS9 and B5, the theme of a science fiction show based around a crew on a spaceship is heavily covered. Something really new has to be done with this show in order for it to Last in the face of an already swamped theme. For its first few episodes being very clicheish and with topics that have been done before (even though they were done by the same artist), Firefly does not currently offer its viewers anything they cannot get from any other show out there.

[Arkcon]

Originally posted by Major Tom:
I think that TV corporations are getting way too greedy in that they expect that if a show is not immediately a hit, it will never be<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">IMHO, the blame doesn't completely belong to the networks. Some TV shows have gotten way too expensive. Early in the run of Farscape the special effects were more immaginative than visually dazzling. Heck, even the first two seasons of Next Gen had pretty simple sets and spaceshots.

Years ago there was some show that was about teenagers in a high school. They were canceled after a year, depite critical acclaim. Basically they said at some ridiculus price, IIRC 1.2 million an episode, they couldn't take it to the networks or PBS, and the cable network (HBO I think) didn't want it anymore.

And I thought "1.2 million?!? The teen actors are unknowns, the set is hallways and classrooms, what is money for. Was the catering that good? I know an episode of NextGen doesn't cost that much -- not early in it's run. Are the writers and directors really worth that much?"

[Major Tom]

One also might assume that it is the fault of the show that becomes entirely reliant on its success primarily due to particular actors. Indeed, certain actors do a very good job, but, the sign of a good show is to survive the loss of some of your main actors. NYPD Blue lost actor after actor, but still remains a top show. Law and Order does not have a single original actor left, but is still very well done.

However, 'ER' will bust after losing all of its actors due to the hype placed on the importance of its actors in the success of the show. Just like 'Friends' would never survive the loss of just one of its cast members.

The problem arises is when the 'Shelly Long' syndrome arises. When a successful TV actor then believes that they are great because their show is successful. They then demand extraordinate amounts of money, hoping to break their contract and end up in movies where the big money and fame is. However, most tend to flop, and end up on the latest CSI spinoff.

It sort of reminds me of the show "News Radio", which was an awesome piece of Television. When Phil Hartman was murdered, the show lost a lot of its already small audience. However, the quality of the show really didn't suffer, and was as funny in its Last episode as it was in its first. The problem is, is that the individuals of shows are hyped well beyond the actual show itself.

Indeed, good shows do get expensive to run. But where are all of the Francis Ford Coppolas? The guys who spend all the money they make on blockbusters (Godfather series) on works of movie/television art (Apocalypse Now). It seems like all of the profits of television corporations are to be spent purely on making even more profits, and not using these profits to provide good programming that may not earn you a lot of money, but earn you a very loyal fanbase.

[Wardad]

I heard it was canceled because it was not canon.

No, please, put down that rock. Eeeehhhhh!!!

[Arkcon]

Originally posted by Major Tom:
The problem arises is when the 'Shelly Long' syndrome arises. When a successful TV actor then believes that they are great because their show is successful. They then demand extraordinate amounts of money, hoping to break their contract and end up in movies where the big money and fame is. However, most tend to flop, and end up on the latest CSI spinoff.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Meh, I just figure they get bored. Hollywood is always very interested in generating buzz for their movie by hireing TV stars opposite their favorite cinematic standbys.

Maybe some actors, producers, media moguls and other people just like killing TV shows to show how powerful they are.

[Crazy_Dog]

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Crazy_Dog:
For me, the best is B5 because is the one that have a real plot, great acting and consistency.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Great acting is always relative in Sci-Fi TV... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, is great acting reporting to Sci-Fi (not like Hamlet) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[TerranC]

I have the solution!

Get 5 sci-fi shows from writers all across the nation, put them under vigorus Effects test and private paneling, then showcase them in front of a jury and let the viewers choose what they want!

Le's call it Starwars-Wannabe!

... nah. can't do that. Won't make enough money.

[pat]

hi

just my opinion but the original outer limits,

who can take any sci-fi seriously where the aliens all talk like american yuppies,

i thought star trek had to be the one of the dummest shows ever.
harlan ellison said they managed to screw up the few episodes he wrote for them.

outer limits was very fresh and original then and still hold up well.

[Kimball]

Canuk:

Try the newsgroup

rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated

It has a pretty knowledgable and loyal following. You can find out the answers to most or your B% questions.

[Deathstalker]

Just finished watching tonights episode of 'Firefly'. I havn't laughed that much in a loonnng time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Man this is a fun show.

Anyone else liking this show at all (was kinda fuzzy on the second ep I saw but this third one has me really liking the characters).

[capnq]

I like Firefly so far. Some people think it's too much "Western" and not enough "Science Fiction".

[disabled]

I'm kinda disturbed bu the huge lack of racial diveristy on the show.... of course, most sci-fi series are that way to avoid pissing off the demographics....

[capnq]

I'm kinda disturbed by the huge lack of racial diveristy on the show <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's the first I've heard that particular criticism; I don't see it. Two regular characters are African-American, and I'm uncertain of the ethnicity of the "companion" character (I'm terrible with names). There were Asians and an Eastern European in the first episode, and I'm told that the language the characters sometimes shift to is some dialect of Chinese.

[gregebowman]

Unfortunatley, I still haven't seen an episode of Firefly. I'd like to see it before Major Tom's prediction comes true. I only got to see one episode of The Lone Gunmen, and was disappointed when it was cancelled. Hopefully that will be released on DVD soon. Anyway, Major Tom is right about Friday nights. Even if I am home, rarely is the remote control in my hand, and as I've stated before, my wife isn't a sci-fi fan. So I don't get much opportunity to watch any of these sci-fi shows. The only exception is Enterprise, because my wife knows I'm a Trekkie and I won't be denied my dose of new Trek. I still haven't seen a complete episode of Andromeda, just snippets, so I can't make a judgment there. I finally saw my first episode of Mutant X the other day, and not being a big X-Men reader (don't get me wrong; I loved the movie, but I just don't read too many Marvel comics. I'm a DC fan from way back), I couldn't really get into it since I didn't who these characters were. I'm just glad we do have all of these choices, because for those to young to remember the 70's and 80's, we didn't have much of a selection to watch sci-fi or fantasy. And if a show did exist, it usually didn't Last too long. There were exceptions, like the Six Million Dollar Man, which Lasted 5 or 6 seasons. And the Incredible Hulk, which Lasted almost as long. But most shows, like V, Battlestar Galactica, etc., just didn't Last too long. At least networks are now willing to gamble and create a sci-fi series. Hell, you don't know how long I wished for a channel like the Sci-fi channel. It's still a disappointment, because it looks like suits are running the show and there are a heck of lot of shows that could be on there that are not. And I just wish they would get rid of Crossing Over. That is not even in the neighborhood of science fiction, yet it's on and wasting the time slot that could have a Star Trek episode, or a (original) Twilight Zone episode or some other real sci-fi show.

[Deathstalker]

" I'm kinda disturbed by the huge lack of racial diveristy on the show "

Not a flame but....

Don't see this as a problem considering the show has a mixed race couple which I don't remember being a staple of T.V. these days. That and it's still the first few episodes we have been shown (actually the latest one was supposed to be the 7th episode, Fox just messed with the numbering again...). Joss's other shows (Buffy, Angel) have a history of being very diverse in their casts (blacks, hispanics, Lesbians, Wicca in 'Non-Satanic' roles, women in the 'power role'), I mean the whole theory behind 'Buffy' was the point of the man (Luke Perry) being the 'Damsel in Distress'.

At least it seems natural, not like Star Trek where they sometimes did things to make a point (and to the point of being preachy). (IMO...sometimes).

Edit, just a sidebar but I seem to remember a sci-fi book (or show, can't recall which one) where they said that in the far future, with the continuing 'mixing' of human races (inter marring etc) that most likely the human race would have a 'blended' look. With the most prominant features being vaguely oriental (or dark skinned) since the human population is dominant in that side in shear numbers (ie, China and the '3rd' world countries.). Esp with their prediction that once China is thrust into the 'current age' it will become a major super-power. Wish I could remember what series this was...think it might have been a 'Battletech' novel or something.....ah well, too many tangents again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[ October 07, 2002, 03:33: Message edited by: Deathstalker ]

[disabled]

I'm hoping that it does start to show more ethnic Groups, many sci-fi shows have been narrowing down and even editing out some of the other ethnic Groups represented.

[Deathstalker]

One other point, I am actually quite excited by this season of T.V. Don't really watch much but I find myself seeing some really good shows (and a few of them are actually 'sci-fi' http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

Ones I'm looking forward to (no particular order)

Buffy,
Angel,
Haunted (quite strong, X-Files meets 6th sense)
Birds of Prey (bring on The Batman!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )
Firefly
C.S.I (not that horrible Miami one, ugh!)
Crossing Jordan (though the new beginning is pure crap!)
Smallville (if I can actually find it on when I'm not working!!)

heh, non-computer time, who'd a thunk it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Major Tom]

I actually really liked the Last Firefly. It was well written, acted, and had some humour. However, I hope that they don't keep on pushing cowboys in space. Seeing the 'cowboy planet' where everything is completely 1880's, down to the music, really detracted the possibility for reality. I read an article by Joss, who said that he is not including alien life, because he does not believe that there is alien life out there... But we will revert our society to copy the late 19th Century in the US West exactly...

However, leave it to me to finally really like a show and find that it is cancelled. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

The lineup this year has a lot of potential winners, and a lot of losers.

Shield looks good (even though it is HBO or something)

Boomtown as well

Buffy and Angel are still on the decline, and getting absurder and absurder. The School gets destroyed by a big worm, and there are still those in denyal... I guess we will have to see how this series ends, maybe Buffy will start fighting Vampires again, instead of Robots, Giant Worms, Gods, Computer Geeks and various ugly demons.

Birds of prey reminds me of this horrid show, I think it is called Black Scorpion, or something like it. I have not watched this yet, as I am not that desperate to watch TV.

If you like C.S.I., I would recommend you to get a hold of some episodes of "DaVinci's Inquest", a Canadian production based out of Vancouver. The funny thing about C.S.I. Miami is that a substantial number of the cast are individuals who left successful TV shows and failed in their solo TV and movie careers. The next member of the CSI Miami crew will be someone from Seinfeld.

Crossing Jordan has let me down for another year. Competing against all of those new forenzic shows (C.S.I. #1 and #2, DaVinci's Inquest, as well as Monk), this show is not individual enough to Last. Unfortunately there was nothing else worthwhile on after Third Watch Last year.

Haunted is probably the only Television show on in a while that actually made me jump in my seat. I am amazed that nobody has tried to do this yet on TV.

Smallville, now there is a total winner. It is on at the same time as Buffy here, and I am constantly drawn to watch it as it is still early in the series to be fresh, new, and with great writing.

[Major Tom]

I don't necessarily see the need to change the cast of Firefly, as you cannot necessarily include everyone from every type of individual, or else you would need a cast of hundreds.

There are 4 Girls and 5 Guys, so it is gender equal. Even still, 3 of the Girls and 3 of the Guys look to posess 'strong' personalities, so it will not be a show where the guys do everything to save the girls.

There are 2 African Americans, 6 European Americans, and 1 Canadian. Try to pick out who? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

To add an Oriental would be the next obvious choice, possibly a Hispanic, but would that really increase the demographics? I watch the show "Sex and the City", even though there are no lead male roles. I don't necessarily believe that every show must have equal demographics with its main cast. However, should the minor cast (i.e., eposidic cast or frequent guests) not represent a realistic demographic, then there is something up. You might not have a major character being White when you are dealing with an African-American family sitcom, but you do have reocurring characters who are.

I feel that Firefly will probably continue with the introduction of different cultures intermixing in space, hopefully not representing itself in a total historic context (like the US 19th Century west!!!!!).

[Captain Kwok]

How about we start a re-launch of Seaquest DSV?

From what I remember, that was a fine a piece of entertainment...

[ October 07, 2002, 06:39: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[disabled]

All I'd like to see is more ethnic Groups on the series overall, not as the leading roles. Give the show a bit more diversity.

As for Seaquest, HELL NO! I don't want to StarTrek the Next Generation under water.

[Major Tom]

Originally posted by Hadrian Tyrael S. Aventine:
All I'd like to see is more ethnic Groups on the series overall, not as the leading roles. Give the show a bit more diversity.

As for Seaquest, HELL NO! I don't want to StarTrek the Next Generation under water.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It has just ran its 3rd Episode, so I think that in time the will be able to do this. Realistically, when individuals emigrate to other places they tend to do it with people they are familiar with, who tend to be from their same culture, so you will probably expect to find many ethnically restricted planets.

[Captain Kwok]

Originally posted by Hadrian Tyrael S. Aventine:
As for Seaquest, HELL NO! I don't want to StarTrek the Next Generation under water.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I was being sarcastic...

[disabled]

You don't joke about the bastard child of StarTrek:TNG and 20,000 Leagues.

[Puke]

Originally posted by Major Tom:
Realistically, when individuals emigrate to other places they tend to do it with people they are familiar with, who tend to be from their same culture, so you will probably expect to find many ethnically restricted planets.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just what the future needs. La Terre Francaise.

[Major Tom]

Originally posted by Puke:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Major Tom:
Realistically, when individuals emigrate to other places they tend to do it with people they are familiar with, who tend to be from their same culture, so you will probably expect to find many ethnically restricted planets.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just what the future needs. La Terre Francaise.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Either that or every planet is populated by.....

AMERICANS!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Puke]

Only if you're lucky http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

If you're not, we might end up with (blindly spins globe to find a country to descriminate against) OCEANIAIANS!

hmm, all those tourism dollars must translate into a sizeable budget for space travel, in the future. either that, or they are the only survivors when the rest of us nuke each other in 1995. Oh wait, that didnt happen. DARN YOU, SARAH CONNER!

[capnq]

Ooh, there's an idea: a show set in the universe of Keith Laumer's "Corps Diplomatique Terrestrielle" (or however it's spelled).

Probably have to be animated; most of the alien races Retief encountered weren't even vaguely humanoid.

[disabled]

Now here is a serious, but mute, complaint about FireFly. Why haven't we scene more alien enviroments. Sure planets will develop along similar lines, but at different rates and try different things naturally. The argument against this is that humans like to extinct native species and move our own junk it.

Eviction of the weakest indeed...

[Captain Kwok]

Originally posted by Hadrian Tyrael S. Aventine:
Now here is a serious, but mute, complaint about FireFly. Why haven't we scene more alien enviroments. Sure planets will develop along similar lines, but at different rates and try different things naturally. The argument against this is that humans like to extinct native species and move our own junk it.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The biggest problem with creating exciting aliens and alien environments is COST. Unfortunately our favourite Sci-fi shows rarely have large enough audiences to bring in that kind of money.

[gregebowman]

my main complaint about sci-fi shows, especially Star Trek, is that everyone knows the same language. I know on Star Trek the universal translator is supposed to be on and that's why everybody understands each other on a first contact situation. Bull!! If the computer has never encountered the language before, how can it understand it? At least on Enterprise they're trying to show how it's supposed to be done when encountering a race for the first time. I just wish more of these shows would pay attention to that kind of detail.

[Suicide Junkie]

Well, if you have a galaxy chock full of aliens, then;
1) Many Languages would be derivatives of others, and thus fairly easy to extrapolate to.
2) You meet a race, exchange language knowledge, and then both your translators will work with many races you haven't met yet. Meet one of these new races, and do the same thing. Pretty soon you have all the translation info for the major races, and most of the minor ones too.

There were a few episodes on untranslatable Languages, and some where the delay for sampling & extrapolation was critical to the plot.

[ October 09, 2002, 20:12: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[Major Tom]

Tonights "Enterprise" proved to me that they are just going to the old enemies of TNG, VOY and DS9. I was thrilled when they were talking to the Telerites, the guys who disappeared after TOS, but then was dismayed to realize by the end of the episode that all they are doing is to reintroduce another group of dangerous enemies, that got really tiresome in Voyager.

I won't give away more for fears of spoiling the episode for someone who has it on TV later in the week.

[Captain Kwok]

Originally posted by gregebowman:
my main complaint about sci-fi shows, especially Star Trek, is that everyone knows the same language...<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">But not many people want to site through a show that is potentially half-subtitles. Nor do the producers/writers/etc want to come up with a new alien language every week. I'm willing to suspend a little disbelief here and there...

[Wardad]

Dogscoff,

I think the Morman Fanatics http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif would create their own colonies if given the chance. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[dogscoff]

Realistically, when individuals emigrate to other places they tend to do it with people they are familiar with, who tend to be from their same culture, so you will probably expect to find many ethnically restricted planets.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Personally, i think it is more likely that ethnicity will eventually cease to exist if globalisation continues at its current rate. Space colonisation would probably accelerate the process.

As more and more babies are born with parents of different races, completely white/ completely black/ completely {insert ethnic grouping here} people will become more and more of a minority compared to the growing group of mixed heritage somewhere-in-the-middles. Eventually, dozens or hundreds of generations into the future, everyone will be the same colour.

Looking at the proportions of ethnic groupings in the current world population (ie the vast majority of the human race being in China and the 3rd World), you can try to guess at what the final colour of humanity might be. All those white supremacist arseholes are in for a shock http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Granted, loads of people, for whatever reason, find people of their own colour more attractive or at least more available, but eventually globalisation will change this.

This might one day spell and end to racism, which can only be a good thing, but the loss of diversity saddens me. Then again, by that time we'll have the tech to modify our bodies' colour as easily as changing our clothes. Being black or white might one day be nothing more than a fashion statement=-)

It also makes you wonder whether 200 generations ago there might have been racial Groups and genetic features which have been bred out altogether now...

[Major Tom]

I think that there is enough cultural paranioa in just about every society to keep 'the cultures separate'. Look in any society, and 'intermixing' is looked down upon, even in very liberal societies. You can force equality in law, but never force it in thought, unless some brainwashing machine is used, and that would require a lot of quarters.

(on a side note here, I never understood why different types of people are called different 'races', as you do not call a poodle to be of a different race then a schnauzer. Indeed, isn't there just one race of humans? The Human race?)

[Captain Kwok]

In Toronto, I'm glad to see a lot more inter-racial couples nowadays. It should be really interesting in about 20 years when a lot of the recent immigrant's children begin to move away from a lot of different traditions etc...

[Deathstalker]

"(on a side note here, I never understood why different types of people are called different 'races', as you do not call a poodle to be of a different race then a schnauzer. Indeed, isn't there just one race of humans? The Human race?)"

Amen. I just wish more people would realize this, eveyone is human (even lawyers....or tax collectors http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). People just put too much emphasis on race (both for and against). We're people. Lets just leave it at that and get on with our lives.

[TerranC]

Originally posted by Deathstalker:
"(on a side note here, I never understood why different types of people are called different 'races', as you do not call a poodle to be of a different race then a schnauzer. Indeed, isn't there just one race of humans? The Human race?)"<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There is only one human SPECIES. Race is more like nationality. Of course, some people living in different environmnents have some unique adapatations that are normally not found anywhere else.

Edit: Yes some racial Groups are "extinct". Some ethnic Groups in siberia are now gone, Native tribes were almost entirely killed off, and some of the first nations/ethnicities are gone, hauled off by a stronger power or massacred http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ October 11, 2002, 17:56: Message edited by: TerranC ]

[Wardad]

Originally posted by TerranC:

Edit: Yes some racial Groups are "extinct". Some ethnic Groups in siberia are now gone, Native tribes were almost entirely killed off, and some of the first nations/ethnicities are gone, hauled off by a stronger power or massacred http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif [/QB]<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The pure blood Hawians are few in number. The rest either intermarried or died of disease.

So there are natural forces at work besides one tribe of monkeys beating another one with sticks.

[gregebowman]

I'm living in the South (Florida in particular),and believe it or not, I see a lot of interracial couples. Sure, we got some rednecks down here who probably still have their sheets hanging in the back of their closet, but from what I've seen since I've lived here is that it's not such a big thing anymore.

[Major Tom]

Hate to beat a dead horse, but here in Ontario they just put Farscape on syndication with ANOTHER set of TV stations.

So far, that makes 3 stations showing Farscape in Ontario (all of them are at different points in the series).

We get Farscape on TV on Monday at 8:00pm, Friday at 8:00pm and 9:00pm (twice with 2 different stations showing different episodes) Saturday at 3:00pm and Sunday 2:00pm (however, one Friday, Saturday and Sunday show the same episode).

I really believe that this show is finally taking off, 'Ratings' here are fairly high (as it is given very favorable timeslots). Unfortunately I beleive it will do a 'Star Trek' and really only take off after its cancellation. However, this might lead to what happened with a few other shows.

Star Trek started to go to the movies (possibly the Farscape season finale will be finished in a movie, or made for TV movie).

A Canadian show called Nikita (based off of the French la Femme Nikita) ended after so many years, but the fan base responded with a letter campaign that had them do another 1/2 season to finish off the show right, instead of the quick ending they had before.

So, Farscape may not be saved as it is, but it could come back if it does very well in syndication in different forms (movies, a short season to end the show, or a new series).

[Rich04]

For those that are interested-

http://www.strangehorizons.com/2002/20021014/farscape.shtml

[disabled]

Another thing to keep in mind is that every planet is different posing different sets of enviromental challenges. These in turn trigger a degree of evolution.