which grafix tool is best? [Archive]

pathfinder

October 11th, 2002, 06:25 PM

Simplest 3D modeler is DOGA L3 or L2 (shareware, about $40 USD [DOGA L3]). I use (no longer made) Micrografix Picture Publisher to do graphic touch-up.

URL for DOGA:

http://www.doga.co.jp/english/

Not an artist of graphix person either, just like messing around with it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 11, 2002, 17:35: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

mlmbd

October 11th, 2002, 08:47 PM

Thanks, pathfinder.

I will check it out!

mlmbd http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

D/L V 1. Nice prg. Think I will order V 3.

Again Thanks, Pathfinder!
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 12, 2002, 01:04: Message edited by: mlmbd ]

mlmbd

October 12th, 2002, 01:43 AM

I was wondeering which tool or tools are the best for this game.
Programer I am not. Wanta be artist MAYBE!
Any help would be appreciated. ANY! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

mlmbd

mlmbd

October 12th, 2002, 11:29 PM

There isn't anyone out there with an opinion, beside pathfinder? I find this hard, very hard to believe. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Captain Kwok

October 12th, 2002, 11:33 PM

I prefer to use Moray + POV-Ray for my models and Photoshop for other graphic stuff.

pathfinder

October 12th, 2002, 11:51 PM

Yeah, MORAY/POVRAY allows for more detail, I just found it a bit difficult to use/learn.

mlmbd

October 13th, 2002, 08:02 AM

I just D/L MORAY/POVRAY. Haven't had a chance to use them yet.
Checked out the SITE Captain Kwok. Nice, very NICE! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
I will let you about MORAY/POVRAY. After a have a chance to use them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

KirbyEF

October 13th, 2002, 08:04 AM

I really liked that DOGAL Editor. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

It had several hull and parts to choose from.

I have not tried that Moray... but I will have to take a look. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

KirbyEF

Fyron

October 13th, 2002, 08:40 AM

DOGA is way too limited, IMO. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

mlmbd

October 13th, 2002, 09:05 AM

Don't know. Doga V3. Is pretty sharp! Thanks again pathfinder! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Zarix

October 13th, 2002, 11:27 AM

The best graphic tool is Pov-Ray. Using it without Moray gives impressive results but you have to learn the coding language. Learning it can take a lot of time.

Captain Kwok

October 13th, 2002, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by Zarix:
The best graphic tool is Pov-Ray. Using it without Moray gives impressive results but you have to learn the coding language. Learning it can take a lot of time.The only person I know doing this is Alpha Kodiak, who made the Rage, Azorani, and the Namovan. Too much work for me!

Zarix

October 13th, 2002, 05:19 PM

I have made all my shipsets (Toron, Aquilaeian, etc.) with Pov-Ray. After learning the language it isn't a big job to make a whole shipset. If you have made one ship, you can make another ship with only few changes to the code but still get very different looking result.

Gryphin

October 13th, 2002, 05:48 PM

Zarix ,
Thanks for the Toron and my Sweetheart thanks you for the Aquilaeian. We use those all the time.

mlmbd

October 13th, 2002, 11:30 PM

Pov-Ray, is way over my head. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

I do see what you mean pathfinder. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Zarix

October 14th, 2002, 12:39 PM

Gryphin, it is certainly nice to hear that someone uses them.

Taera

October 14th, 2002, 07:23 PM

The best graphic tool? Why, it is most certainly either Bryce 3d or 3dMax. These are the most powerful graphics 3d tools known to me that can be used by normal Users. Moray+Povray is what i use right now. It is the best program given you are not an experienced artist. It has the _best_ textures all over the place (i know i've been talking to people using 3dMax) but after three years of extensive modelling i begin to find it limited. It is still one of the best programs because it is simple, easy on the PC and powerful on the results. PovRay language offers much greater level of creativity but i do not feel like programming images.

TerranC

October 14th, 2002, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by Taera:
The best graphic tool? Why, it is most certainly either Bryce 3d or 3dMax. These are the most powerful graphics 3d tools known to me that can be used by normal Users.Bryce 3d can be used in conjunction with DoGA so I recommend it.

I'd advise you read this (http://forums.scifi-meshes.com/showthread.php?s=9268d70668f384c1fb23d091e0ee31f3&threadid=318) before choosing 3dmax.

mlmbd

October 15th, 2002, 06:20 PM

TerranC is right 3dmax is expensive. Have been looking for Bryce 3d. To check it out.
No luck as of yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[ October 15, 2002, 18:47: Message edited by: mlmbd ]

rdouglass

October 15th, 2002, 06:52 PM

I kinda' like Strata 3D. Been having pretty good results and IMO a short learning curve. There is a downloadable demo available.

http:\\www.strata.com

mlmbd

October 16th, 2002, 03:05 PM

Bryce 3D, looking for it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Strata 3D, found it. But I don't have it yet! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Shot, my desktop is going to look like a F/X workstation. Guess that's not all bad! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

OH Yeah, thanks for all input!

[ October 16, 2002, 14:07: Message edited by: mlmbd ]

Taera

October 16th, 2002, 03:19 PM

Bryce 3d is a very powerful tool and its creation are realistic. Yet it requies skill to create good images in this program.

3d Max is way too expensive.

chewy027

October 17th, 2002, 04:18 AM

Is Bryce 3D one and the same as Bryce 3, 4, 5 or are they completely diffent programs?

Phoenix-D

October 17th, 2002, 04:37 AM

Bryce 3d is an older Version of the other Bryce programs.

mlmbd

October 20th, 2002, 02:36 PM

Just got Micrografx Suite 2. Looks really nice. Did buy Strada 3D.
Thanks for the tip, rdouglass. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

KirbyEF

October 27th, 2002, 03:49 AM

I have seen Photoshop 7 in an email for $39.95....

It sounds too good to be true.... has anyone ever ordered it @ that price? What it the real thing?

Anyone know how much Bryce is going for?

mlmbd - How do you like that Micrografx Suite 2?

KirbyEF

Captain Kwok

October 27th, 2002, 07:19 AM

I'm sure Photoshop 7 will be going for more than $39.99...it was probably $399 as the Adobe site has advertised.

KirbyEF

October 27th, 2002, 11:29 AM

No really is was thirty-nine dollars and ninty-nine cents. ($39.95) (not $399)

NO TYPE-O.

Thanks,
KirbyEF

Noble713

October 31st, 2002, 10:18 PM

I use 3DS Max 4. However, I don't make shipsets. I tried a few times but in general found the small size of the shipset images to not work well with my style. Max is still my favorite graphics program though.

Gandalph

October 31st, 2002, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by kirbyef:
No really is was thirty-nine dollars and ninty-nine cents. ($39.95) (not $399)

NO TYPE-O.

Thanks,
KirbyEFMy guess would be Taiwanese pirated copy as I have seen the emails, the web pages, and even the products, first hand. Adobe does not sell at that price and would be interested in knowing who offers it.

KirbyEF

November 3rd, 2002, 10:33 PM

I found the linke for you guys to look at:

http://www.optinfreebies.com/cgi-bin/goto.cgi?id=222

It does seem too good to be true.

KirbyEF

mlmbd

November 5th, 2002, 03:34 PM

Strada 3D:

Got it finally! It is most excellent!!

THANKS, rdouglass!!

mlmbd http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

ZeroAdunn

November 6th, 2002, 09:09 AM

I tend to work in spaghetti.

KirbyEF

November 7th, 2002, 10:04 AM

I was told about a really good paint/photo editor program a few years ago.

It is called Ultimate Paint. Currently up to Version 2.82. I use it a lot and enjoy the image enhancing features. The demo Version only works for 30 days, but it's under $100. They also offer and older Version as freeware, but it does lack some of the newer bells and whistles. Available at:
http://www.ultimatepaint.com/

I recently have found another graphics program that I enjoy. You cannot edit other graphics, but you can generate some very nice graphics. The program is called Fractal Explorer (currently v1.23). For those of you who have not played with fractals before, this will be an experience. The faster the computer the better, because fractals are generated using an array of number sent through a formula and the results generate a series color. This is the chaos theory. I don't understand it all myself, but it seem to me that fractals show a pattern in nature thus meaning that math is the basis of the universe. I guess we could ask mlmbd he is a Physicist. So anyway here is the link:
http://www.eclectasy.com/Fractal-Explorer/

KirbyEF

mlmbd

November 9th, 2002, 04:19 AM

I just found a really nice program. REAL-DRAW PRO. Look out PHOTOSHOP, you have some real competition. At 1/10th the cost. NICE, I'm telling you!!

The link to d/l the 30 day trial is here. Check it out!

http://www.mediachance.com/

mlmbd http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Physics, did I hear someone mention Physics??

mlmbd

November 13th, 2002, 08:59 PM

You guys are really missing out if don't give this program a look!!

It is really Nice!!

mlmbd http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

KirbyEF

November 14th, 2002, 07:04 AM

I saw that Real Draw Pro.... It looks even better than Ultimate Paint.... and it costs less?!?

What a strange world we live in...

KirbyEF

Ragnarok

November 14th, 2002, 07:17 AM

I looked at it as well. I'll probably buy it as soon as I get some extra cash. Which maybe be for another month or so yet. But it looks nice.

It looks like it's rather easy to learn in Real-DRAW. Is that a correct observation?

The more I look at it the more I want it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ November 14, 2002, 05:21: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

mlmbd

November 14th, 2002, 07:38 AM

Rags, the basic are really easy to pick-up. There is alot of it that isn't real basic. But given that PS7B is pretty involved as well. One of the reasons PS7P is so expencieve. I found Real-DRAW much, much easier to learn. It is as good as PS7P (at $400). And at about $50, it is a steal IMO.

mlmbd http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Ragnarok

November 14th, 2002, 04:22 PM

Yeah really. It is a steal if it is easier to learn, just as good, can do just a bit more in it, then you can with PS7P. So I will be buying it ASAP. Thanks for giving the link. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

henk brouwer

November 14th, 2002, 05:02 PM

I'm using gimp for windows ( www.gimp.org, (http://www.gimp.org,) scroll down and follow the link to gimp for windows ). It's has almost all the options of psp and ps, and some others, and the best thing: it's completely free http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . Only problem I found so far is that it doesn't work very well with my graphics tablet

[ November 14, 2002, 15:07: Message edited by: henk brouwer ]

Elowan

November 14th, 2002, 07:12 PM

My faves:

2D:
 PaintShop Pro - most bang for the buck. Layers; color substitution; alpha channels; batch processing; great effects built in (Sculpture for example). MediaCenter - cataloging graphics (and audio and movies)
3D: Lightwave 7.n - splitting modeler/viewer was a good move. Comes with some great plug-ins. Dongle is a PITA however. Rhino - easiest to learn. Imports most formats. Most intuitive interface. Animation Master - best animator bar none. A little buggy but company very responsive to user input and fixes are implemented quickly. Needs lots of RAM. For figure modeling and IK - nothing can touch it.
I have all the rest (my company humors me) but use the above the most.
PovRay, Moray and Doga are not worth the effort - in my view - even if they are 'free' (see below).

Maya is a pain-in-the-a**. Frankly, I think it's over-rated.

gMax is an app that never seems to do right by me. Why doesn't it import Max files? Textures often get 'lost' on importing. Some have had good luck with it and it's free. Much better than Doga et al in my opinion.

3DS Max is a good all-around application but pricey ($3,195.00). I wouldn't let the company buy it - got an older Version off E-bay instead.

Deep Exploration is over-priced but is one-helluva multi-format viewer.

[ November 14, 2002, 17:16: Message edited by: Elowan ]

mlmbd

November 16th, 2002, 03:39 PM

Rags, sure!! And you are most welcome. Yeah, I can't believe just how much more stuff you can do in Real-DRAW over PS7P.

mlmbd http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

TerranC

November 16th, 2002, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by Elowan:

PovRay, Moray and Doga are not worth the effort - in my view - even if they are 'free' (see below).

Why is it not worth the effort? Everything's worth the effort; and DoGA is a good alternative to people that just can't get a grasp of other 3d softwares.

gMax is an app that never seems to do right by me. Why doesn't it import Max files? Textures often get 'lost' on importing. Some have had good luck with it and it's free. Much better than Doga et al in my opinion.

Maybe it's because gMax was made for creating GAME MODELS, not 3d images.

Edit: Just for the sake of it...

Advise for choosing YOUR 3D solutions (by people that know best) (http://forums.scifi-meshes.com/showthread.php?s=9268d70668f384c1fb23d091e0ee31f3&threadid=318)

[ November 16, 2002, 13:59: Message edited by: TerranC ]

Elowan

November 16th, 2002, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by TerranC:

Maybe it's because gMax was made for creating GAME MODELS, not 3d images.
Aren't we talking about a game here? SEIV is a game AFAIK. Texturing is still used to some degree IINM. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

BTW - thanks for the URL. Bares out some of my feelings as well.

[ November 16, 2002, 20:47: Message edited by: Elowan ]

Phoenix-D

November 16th, 2002, 10:50 PM

"Aren't we talking about a game here? SEIV is a game AFAIK. Texturing is still used to some degree IINM."

There is a pretty large difference between a static rendered image and a in-engine model! None of my Bryce ships would work for any known game engine; they have far too many polygons. Se4 however, handles them fine..because as BMP images, polygon count no longer matters.

Phoenix-D

mlmbd

November 17th, 2002, 01:23 PM

Elowan, your points are well taken. But not everyone has the luxury of a company supporting their desires, with respect to FX software.

I don't imagine most of the people here can afford software ranging from $200 to $15,000. So they grab the best thing they can afford. For some that is free. And DOGA isn't free. Only the crippled Versions of DOGA L2-L3 are free, Registered $40. To your company and your habit, that might not be much. But to majority of us that's alot. For some even that $40 is to much.

And given ALL that the images here are pretty impressive. IMHO

If I remember right gMax doesn't support bmp's and gif's. So that might be the problem you are having with it.

mlmbd http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

KirbyEF

November 23rd, 2002, 08:19 PM

I agree most people don't have a lot of money to spend on computer stuff.

Professional tools are just that.... and they cost a bunch of weeks of allowance (or burgers flipped, etc.).

DOGA is good. I have talked about a couple that are under $100 bucks.... more in the price range for the average user...

I looked at the Real Draw Pro.... very powerful!

KirbyEF

[ November 23, 2002, 18:51: Message edited by: kirbyef ]

KirbyEF

December 5th, 2002, 05:02 AM

Has anyone tried System Mechanic?

It has some nice features and for a reasonable price...$59.95

For example the registry program finds problems, even Norton WinDoctor doesn't find... The two utilities compliment each other.

Another tool in it is the connection wizard, for optimizing your internet connection, for both modem or DSL/Cable....

Several other features... you can even trial it for 30 days... check it out.

http://www.iolo.com/

KirbyEF

[ December 05, 2002, 03:03: Message edited by: kirbyef ]

mlmbd

December 5th, 2002, 05:42 AM

kirbyef, I didn't know that "System Mechanic" was a grafix tool. I mean who knew?

mlmbd http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

KirbyEF

December 5th, 2002, 05:44 AM

Originally posted by mlmbd:
kirbyef, I didn't know that "System Mechanic" was a grafix tool. I mean who knew?

mlmbd http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif Oh yeah..... you can edit the startup & shutdown graphics for windows with System Mechanic.

opps.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

KirbyEF

mlmbd

December 6th, 2002, 03:27 AM

kirbyef, WOW, that's way cool!

mlmbd http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

KirbyEF

January 15th, 2003, 07:34 PM

oh yeah... it is .. it even works in XP... (so it says)... but from 95 to XP you have a great utility to use!

KirbyEF

mlmbd

January 15th, 2003, 07:34 PM

Seems to be a bunch of 'New' shipset and 'Artist' out there. So I decide to bring this thread back.

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

KirbyEF

January 15th, 2003, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by mlmbd:
Seems to be a bunch of 'New' shipset and 'Artist' out there. So I decide to bring this thread back.

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif I like that purple.... good graphics... hehe...

KirbyEF

[ January 15, 2003, 17:36: Message edited by: kirbyef ]

mlmbd

January 15th, 2003, 07:37 PM

Guess I should have waited a minute, before I 'bumped' the thread!

So, some else knows HTML! I see.

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Ragnarok

January 15th, 2003, 11:13 PM

Originally posted by mlmbd:
Guess I should have waited a minute, before I 'bumped' the thread!

So, some else knows HTML! I see.

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif HTML isn't too hard to know. I learned the basics in about a week. Learned all the advanced stuff in about a month. If even that. 

[ January 15, 2003, 21:13: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

mlmbd

January 16th, 2003, 03:10 PM

rags, so why don't you ever use it? I mean the possibilities are staggering!

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Ragnarok

January 16th, 2003, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by mlmbd:
rags, so why don't you ever use it? I mean the possibilities are staggering!

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif Oh I don't know... I guess when I work with it all day long I try to avoid it when I don't have to use it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

mlmbd

January 18th, 2003, 12:42 AM

rags, one should 'love' what they work at.

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Ragnarok

January 18th, 2003, 06:26 AM

Originally posted by mlmbd:
rags, one should 'love' what they work at.

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif Oh don't get me wrong I love building web sites. Its just when I don't have to mess with the code I try not to.
When you're coding a page all day long it can get frustrating at points if the code isn't working correctly or some other problem arises with it. So I just save that frustration for the job and keep the forums simple. But that's just me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
But I do love working with the code and everything.

mlmbd

January 18th, 2003, 05:20 PM

rags, OK! I can see how you might like a break from the work scene. I myself find it hard not to use what I know. Not that I know that much! That's just me!

I am glad to hear that you are doing something you love! Even if it is frustrating, from time to time.

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif