OT - RAM utilities -> XP sucks? -> ME is worse?

[Greybeard]

My computer has really slowed down lately, and isn't using RAM very effectively based on the sound of data being written and retrieved on the hard drive.

Does anyone have a suggestion of a good RAM cleaning utility program? I looked at CNET, and there are so many available. Of course, they all say they are the best!!

Thanks...Greybeard

[ October 24, 2002, 03:02: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[Gandalph]

The absolutely best RAM utility is MORE RAM!!

[mlmbd]

RAM Booster: http://www.sci.fi/~borg/rambooster/index.htm] http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif
It's really good. Another is MemTurbo. Sorry, no URL for it. Hope that helps!

[Grandpa Kim]

Greybeard, I use MemTurbo. It seems to help, but I can't say its the greatest thing since sliced bread. With only 48 MB, I try to run a pretty lean machine and let MemTurbo clean out the deadwood to free up as much RAM as possible. Give it whirl. If it doesn't help, trash it.

Kim

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by mlmbd:
Sorry, no URL for it. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">www.memturbo.com (http://www.memturbo.com)

I found the link for you. Easy enough. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Jmenschenfresser]

I use StartStop.

It gives you the ability to control all of those semi-useless programs which on startup.

It's not super efficient, but it frees up some wasted space.

[DavidG]

I think this depends on your OS. If it is Windows ME. Then the best thing is to get rid of it!

[Rollo]

Ram can be very powerful. The best ram utility IMO is organic armor. (sorry, couldn't resist) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Q]

Originally posted by Gandalph:
The absolutely best RAM utility is MORE RAM!!<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Especially if you consider the low price for it at the moment.
I installed for about 100 US $ 256MB RAM into my old PII 233MHz with 32 MB RAM originally. It is almost as I have a new computer.

[Fyron]

RAM was cheaper than that Last year, actually. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Greybeard]

Thanks for the advice. I'm still using Windows95 for my OS. I know it's old, but not succeptible to most of the current viruses.

Greybeard

[mlmbd]

Ragnarok: Thanks for the help. Guess I'm just getting old!

And, Thank You Rollo!

Q: Wheew, glad I don't live in Europe. 512MB's RAM here, going for about $40.00.

Used 95 for a long time. It is alot more stable than most of the new OS's. Now running 98SE. Pretty good!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[Fyron]

Originally posted by mlmbd:
Used 95 for a long time. It is alot more stable than most of the new OS's. Now running 98SE. Pretty good!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Uhh... no. Win95 is one of the least stable OS out there (besides WinME, anyways http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ). Win2000 and WinXP are very stable OS that normally do not crash.

[Tenryu]

Some other products: winROCKET and RAMrocket at Ascentive.com. You might find these of use.

[Gryphin]

If your system is "slowing down", try to uninstall a lot of the small programs.
Gator, WeatherBug, various add in toolbars for your browser, fancy programable keyboard, mouse and other drivers that don't contribute a lot to performance.
I remove those on a regular basis at work, (where we run Win 95 and Office 2000).
There is another program that changes your desktop everytime you log into the internet.

[mlmbd]

Imperator Fyron: Moddfied 95 to the MAX. It was very stable. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif WinME?? Win2000, almost NT. WinXP, Microsofts RENT an OS, don't think so. No matter how stable it is! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Fyron]

Actually, there is nothing wrong with 2000. It doesn't have the gaming problems of NT. And XP is basically the fisher price Version of 2000 anyways. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Phoenix-D]

"Actually, there is nothing wrong with 2000. It doesn't have the gaming problems of NT. And XP is basically the fisher price Version of 2000 anyways"

Then 2000 has problems too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Every single game I've tried to instal on my new XP laptop (old one's screen imploded) has failed to work right. This is all in compatability mode BTW..

TWE: Gun animations play very slowly.
Worms: Crashes every time it switches resolution. So I can only play in 640x480.
Pinball: crashes, period. (this is somewhat ironic because an inferior Version of the SAME GAME comes with Windows XP, and works)

Phoenix-D

[Fyron]

That's cause fisher price XP has no DOS kernal. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

99% of games I have tried to run on 2000 have run with no problems.

[Phoenix-D]

Not one of those games uses DOS http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Two of them use DirectX, actually.

Phoenix-D

[Fyron]

Well I can't explain all of the crappiness of fisher price XP. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Gandalph]

The best gaming platform remains Win98SE period. Greatest compatability with games and gaming peripherals. Yeah, it is not as stable as XP or 2000, but for a gaming only system it just works better.

[Phoenix-D]

I'd love to instal 98 on this laptop, but I doubt I could find the drivers to do it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Phoenix-D

[Gandalph]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
I'd love to instal 98 on this laptop, but I doubt I could find the drivers to do it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Phoenix-D<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You can almost always find drivers directly from the chipset manufacturer, if not from the laptop maker. Before venturing into this avenue, write down all devices in device manager, then search for their respective Win98 drivers.

[Fyron]

I almost never have problems running games under 2000.

[Gandalph]

2000 will run games and supports DX8.1, but it has VERY limited peripheral support. If a game works better with a wheel, joystick, or gamepad, you can forget running it on 2000. That is one of the main differences between 2000 and XP. XP supports most of the latest gaming peripherals. On my XP system, for example, I have a Force Feedback Racing wheel, FF joystick, and a FF gamepad, and all of them work excellently with games that support them. Rogue Sqadron, for instance is very enjoyable when you can feel the missile hit to your X-Wing while chasing down a Tie Bomber.

[Fyron]

Well that requires you to feel that it is necessary to use a lot of peripherals to enjoy a game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

But fisher price XP still sucks in general.

[Baron Munchausen]

Yep, Win98 seems to be the 'sweet spot' for most Users. I have often seen people say on various 'support Boards' that you should not bother with anything after Win98 SE. I wonder what the real statistics are for the current installed base of Windows systems. Is Win 98 still holding a larger chunk of the systems than any of the newer Versions? Is XP going to convince people to upgrade with its combination of Win/NT stability and Win98 compatible 'consumer' features? Or will the 'subscription' features spook people away from it? I think we're reaching a crucial point in the history of the Microsoft Empire. If people are not willing to upgrade to XP there may be an opening for someone/something else. If not Linux then maybe the rumoured "Intel Version" of Apple's OS X.

[Fyron]

2000 looks just like 98 to me, but with added features and more crash-resistance. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif And everything I used on my computer under 98se works fine under 2000.

[mlmbd]

OK, OK, Imperator Fyron. I grant you your point about WIN 2000. I still prefer 98SE.

But, I hope we still agree WIN XP SUCKS!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[Fyron]

Yes, fisher price XP does indeed suck. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Crazy_Dog]

In mi experience w2k sp3 is the most stable of all MS OS.

If you have a machine that support w2k / XP, go for w2k.
If not, go for w98SE

[Mephisto]

I run W2k here and NEVER had any game NOT running on my PC. It's a great OS, the best Microsoft has ever released (except maybe XP, never tried it, but all the others http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif ).

[dumbluck]

Y'all keep saying that XP sucks, but nobody ever tells me why! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

[tesco samoa]

Win XP does not 'SUCK'

Please explain to me how a 8 year old operating system is branded a 'non-suck.'

There are many articles out there that compare the 9x , nt and xp o/s's for gaming...

ANd XP wins.

In 6 years when what ever MS is running then...

You people will say it sucks and XP is good.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[mlmbd]

dumbluck: It sucks because it is a rent to rent OS. Buy it and renew it, hence the term "subscription". You don't ever really own it. Does that help? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Now if that doesn't suck, tesco samoa. I don't know what does. An in 6 years, I will still be running Win98SE or a second party OS system. And XP WILL STILL SUCK!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

tesco samoa: Do you by any chance work for MS??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[Mephisto]

You rent XP in the US? You can buy it over here, but not rent it (at least as a home user).

[Spoo]

Renting XP is news to me. Plus I find it very stable. More stable than win2k even.

[Gandalph]

The thing that sucks is the new license gimmick. You actually do own XP (as far as anyone "owns" any software you purchase, which is an argument in itself)* and you do not need to continually update subscription. You do need to register with Microsoft to "activate" XP and you are good to go, unless you make a serious upgrade to your system or perform a fresh new install.

*You technically do not own any software you purchase. When you buy software, you are buying the right to use said software in accordance with it's licensing agreement.

[henk brouwer]

Originally posted by Q:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Gandalph:
The absolutely best RAM utility is MORE RAM!!<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Especially if you consider the low price for it at the moment.
I installed for about 100 US $ 256MB RAM into my old PII 233MHz with 32 MB RAM originally. It is almost as I have a new computer.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sounds like my system configuration:PII 233 mhz with 64 + 256 MB RAM. but my 256 extra RAM was only 35,- $ http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I've only got limited experience with XP, I worked on a couple of systems (not my own) with XP for maybe three weeks in total (Pentium IV) , and I absolutely loath it. both systems I used it on crashed frequently, and after a near fatal crash I couldn't acces my own files anymore because it didn't want to recognize my username (and I did NOT forget the password), and other usernames didn't have acces to those files... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif that's when I gave up...

[ October 21, 2002, 22:42: Message edited by: henk brouwer ]

[Ragnarok]

XP to me is OK. In fact that's what my machine is using. I did have ME on this thing when I bought it but ME sucked big time so I went to XP for the first time. I got to install some new drivers for my display due to having a blue screen of death at least twice a week. Sometimes once a day.
But I would much rather run 2000. 2000 was/is the best OS that micro$lave has put out IMHO. But that's just me. It may be different for other Users.

[DavidG]

XP Sucks? Well depends what you compare it to. To win98 then maybe. Compared to winME though it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. The fact that certain software (such as Roxio Direct CD ver 4) no longer work in XP really sucks too. Especially if you use it daily like I do. And how big a scaam is it that the built in CD support that comes with XP and is made by Roxio is a way scalled down Version.
Here is a good one. How to get my printer to work after a reboot on XP. Go to the system Hardware settings, go the to LPT1 properties and change the 'use Interupt' setting. Printer works. After next reboot change it back to previous setting to get printer to work. How wierd is that.

[Mylon]

Normally I don't have problems with my ram. When I do, that's when a good format/reinstall of Windows is in order and makes everything run nice and smooth (including 45 second boot times!). Otherwise, I use Maxmem by AnalogX (www.analogx.com). The bad part about memory cleaners (all of them!) is that they actually _increase_ disk usage to some degree. That is, you dump out everything in the RAM, and then have to wait while your computer reloads everything it was actually using, while the dead weight is (hopefully) gone until the program that caused the mem usage or mem leak is loaded/used again.

As for OSes, I use Win98 first edition on my main computer (I don't have SE and I'm too damn cheap to get it). WinXP has a bad habit of consuming a large portion of RAM (I'm pretty sure this is why most gaming articles on the issue I've read denounce XP and cite benchmark tests to back it up).

Now, I remember back in the day where we had 64 megs of RAM and we were happy. Nowdays you need 256 before your computer can crash without giving you an out of memory error for trying to load the blue screen of death!

[Askan Nightbringer]

Well as I run Visual Studio.Net I'm limitied to either one of two operating systems - XP or 2k.
Ran 2k since about 2000 (coincidece?...maybe not http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ) and I liked it except Warlords Battlecry patch 1 didn't work and the thing took forever to boot (although I only rebooted once every 2 months but it still pissed me off). XP boots lightning fast, you can turn all the annoying visual effects off to boost performance and its really stable.

I won't upgade to XP patch 1 yet thou, coz I don't like the "Microsoft reserves the right to screw with your machine and make things not work whenever the feel like it" clause. Yep, your computer will automatically patch itself (when connected to the net) and until I find a hacking too to turn it off then I'm not upgrading.

Askan

BTW - WinMe blows. At our office we've got so sick of it we've decided to say our software not longer supports it.

[Will]

Hmm... for everyone who's saying that Win2000 is more stable than Win98SE... I don't really think so. I usually end up having the 2000 machines here hang (hang meaning I have to wait a few minutes for Ctrl-Alt-Del to let me log off) about once every two hours on average here. My Win98SE machine at home I would get a BSoD about once a week (and that was about 30 hours of use). The only thing that's really "stable" about 2000 is you can usually get away with logging off, and logging back in (USUALLY... I've had to cut the power a few times).

XP Pro, while I haven't used it for as much time as the others, I haven't crashed yet. And I've tried a few times http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif XP Home, I've managed to hang quite a few times for the short amount of time I was playing with it.

But, overall, I still prefer Win98SE. I don't know of any programs where you can run it on one of the newer OS, but not on 98SE. I know where most of the settings/customization is (I won't say all, because there's probably some obscure thing that I would never use that I don't know about), and it's easier to change settings than the other ones. After all, "user-friendly" implies methods to prevent "user stupidity", even if they really did mean to change that setting.

[Captain Kwok]

I'm going to upgrade to WinXP when I get some extra money to spend on the computer. I don't buy a lot of criticism here because most haven't used it enough to make an accurate comparision to the programs they're familiar with. I don't anticipate any major problems when I switch.

Fyron - You can always change the desktop to look like previous windows editions...if that's you're only beef http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

[KirbyEF]

MS Windows XP EULA states that you have to renew EVERY TWO YEARS.

Here are a couple of links have the Windows XP EULA and that statement (even one for the UK)
http://www.cw360.com/bin/bladerunner?REQSESS=Jc28AN7 S&REQAUTH=0&2149REQEVENT=&CARTI=105872&CARTT=2&CCAT=2&CCHAN=19&CFLAV=1 (http://www.cw360.com/bin/bladerunner?REQSESS=Jc28AN7S&REQAUTH=0&2149REQEVENT=&CARTI=105872&CARTT=2&CCAT=2&CCHAN=19&CFLAV=1)
http://www.microsoft.com/uk/licensing/programmes/open/
http://www.empower.gb.com/pdf_guides/How%20does%20Microsoft%20licensing%20work.pdf
http://216.239.33.100/search?q=Cache:3O7MTG4QJP8C:www.empower.gb.com/pdf_guides/How%2520does%2520Microsoft%2520licensing%2520work. pdf++EULA+two+years+%22windows+XP+%22&hl=en&ie=UTF -8

But you get to buy it at a "discount".

Thanks, buy no thanks.

98SE or 2K is good enough for me... or there's always Linux....

Kirby

[Phoenix-D]

"I don't buy a lot of criticism here because most haven't used it enough to make an accurate comparision to the programs they're familiar with."

Uh, they don't work and they did under 98. That's a fairly simple comparision. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif An upgrade that breaks what you want to do with the computer isn't much of an upgrade..

Phoenix-D

[Captain Kwok]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
"I don't buy a lot of criticism here because most haven't used it enough to make an accurate comparision to the programs they're familiar with."

Uh, they don't work and they did under 98. That's a fairly simple comparision. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif An upgrade that breaks what you want to do with the computer isn't much of an upgrade..

Phoenix-D<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Woops...I should have been more clear...I meant OSs they are familiar with. I don't use lots of older or obscure programs, so I'm not concerned about that kind of stuff. I'm sure lots of crap didn't work with Win95 that did with Win3.1, things change.

[Spoo]

MS Windows XP EULA states that you have to renew EVERY TWO YEARS. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No it doesn't. What you're refering to is if a business or organization wants to buy several copies of winXP. They have the option to rent it for two years for less than it would cost them to buy it.

Home Users get to use winXP for as long as they care to.

[edit = grammar]

[ October 22, 2002, 19:38: Message edited by: Spoo ]

[Instar]

Honestly winXP is the best OS I have ever used (lots of experience with 95, 98, some with 2000, and some with unix stuff)
The biggest problem that Ive ever had with XP was that SP1 downloaded crappy drivers for my GF4 Ti so I had to go to nvidia to get good ones so I could play NWN and others again. Other than that it is kicking *** for me. Every patch installed, and a good virus scanner on a kick *** machine, I am good to go.
Honestly, XP will crash, but so much less than 98 did for me that I do not care, and I do cause most of the crashes by doing dumb stuff.
But Windows Media player 9 beta sucks ***, it totally got ruined, the new features sound cool but mostly they dont work

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
Fyron - You can always change the desktop to look like previous windows editions...if that's you're only beef http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That isn't my only beef with XP. The fisher price comments refer to more than just the desktop theme. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[DavidG]

My real beef with MS OS's is that if you want to run your software you have no choice but to get an MS OS. Now if MS had got to this lofty position by producing good quality software that the competition couldn't then fine. But they got there through ruthless (and I believe now proven illegal) practices.

[Tenryu]

I've been using XP, both Home and Professional editions, for about 6 months now. Previously, I'd used 98SE as well as ME on various office computers and laptops. I have experienced no problems at all with XP. It has worked fine for me and has been completely stable.

[Fyron]

Going from ME to nearly anything is a huge improvement! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

If you haven't used 2000, you won't see the glaring problems with XP qutie as much, cause you won't know what to look for. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Thermodyne]

I run 1 box with 98SE, 1 box with XP pro, 5 boxes with 2000 server, and 4 boxes with 2000 pro. They range from 200 MHz up to 2.90GHz, and all of them run 24/7 with no problems. Most lock ups and BSD’s are caused by poorly written software and drivers. Games are also a big problem; again this is do to poorly written code.

[Phoenix-D]

"Most lock ups and BSD’s are caused by poorly written software and drivers. Games are also a big problem; again this is do to poorly written code."

I would argue that an OS that must be rebooted after a software crash is itself not written well. Unless the software is something like an installer that needs access to system files.

Now I just have to figure out why my laptop locked up today. With nothing opened but the pre-installed stuff (and not all of it, DIE messanger, DIE).

Phoenix-D

[Tenryu]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Going from ME to nearly anything is a huge improvement! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL! No arguement there!

Regarding the XP VS 2000 issue, 2000 is fine if you're happy with it, I was responing more specifically to the "XP sucks" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif comments.

[Fyron]

XP still sucks though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[rdouglass]

Originally posted by Thermodyne:
I run 1 box with 98SE, 1 box with XP pro, 5 boxes with 2000 server, and 4 boxes with 2000 pro. They range from 200 MHz up to 2.90GHz, and all of them run 24/7 with no problems. Most lock ups and BSD’s are caused by poorly written software and drivers. Games are also a big problem; again this is do to poorly written code.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">OT: So thats how you screamed past me.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Back on-topic: I've been using 2000Pro and it has been (as far as MS standards go) bulletproof. My machine I'm typing this on has been running crash-free for over 2 weeks without a reboot or logoff. And no, I don't just type on it - I do some relatively serious ASP / VB development most of the time and write SQL Server front-ends the rest of the time (and of course SE4!!!).

Reguardless of that, a lot of people love to bash MS. Of course, a lot of people love to bash the 'winner' of anything. Look at a car race: they take the winner's car and break it down to every Last bolt to see if they're cheating (noone gives a s#*t if the loser cheats!!). That goes for business, sports, you-name-it...

I'm not at all suggesting that MS is great and puts out the best product it can. ANd lets be real - marketing and 'strongarm' tactics can only take you so far in the real world. The reality is that most people and businesses voted (with their wallet) that Windows was the best OS around. That is NOT my opinion but pure fact....

LET THE FLAMES BEGIN!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

</$.02>

[Fyron]

As crappy as windows is, it is much better than Mac OS. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Don't know about Linux, as I've never used it before.

[Phoenix-D]

"The reality is that most people and businesses voted (with their wallet) that Windows was the best OS around. That is NOT my opinion but pure fact...."

The reality is that most people buy PCs, not OSes. And the reality is ALSO that most software doesn't work on a non-MS OS, so there isn't much of a choice if you want to run that software.

PHoenix-D

[TerranC]

Linux is small, efficient, free, and customizable; but heard that it is a pain to install and that MANY software doesn't work under it.

[Thermodyne]

Originally posted by rdouglass:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Thermodyne:
I run 1 box with 98SE, 1 box with XP pro, 5 boxes with 2000 server, and 4 boxes with 2000 pro. They range from 200 MHz up to 2.90GHz, and all of them run 24/7 with no problems. Most lock ups and BSD’s are caused by poorly written software and drivers. Games are also a big problem; again this is do to poorly written code.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">OT: So thats how you screamed past me.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Back on-topic: I've been using 2000Pro and it has been (as far as MS standards go) bulletproof. My machine I'm typing this on has been running crash-free for over 2 weeks without a reboot or logoff. And no, I don't just type on it - I do some relatively serious ASP / VB development most of the time and write SQL Server front-ends the rest of the time (and of course SE4!!!).

Reguardless of that, a lot of people love to bash MS. Of course, a lot of people love to bash the 'winner' of anything. Look at a car race: they take the winner's car and break it down to every Last bolt to see if they're cheating (noone gives a s#*t if the loser cheats!!). That goes for business, sports, you-name-it...

I'm not at all suggesting that MS is great and puts out the best product it can. ANd lets be real - marketing and 'strongarm' tactics can only take you so far in the real world. The reality is that most people and businesses voted (with their wallet) that Windows was the best OS around. That is NOT my opinion but pure fact....

LET THE FLAMES BEGIN!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

</$.02></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL; I wouldn’t call it screaming past, but it was one of my goals. 10K is up next. Most of the speed comes from the over clocks, and a few arcane tweaks here and there.

And since you mentioned ASP, we might have some work for you over on the SELadder, so long as you are willing to take your pay in ladder credits http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 24, 2002, 23:14: Message edited by: Thermodyne ]

[Thermodyne]

Originally posted by Greybeard:
My computer has really slowed down lately, and isn't using RAM very effectively based on the sound of data being written and retrieved on the hard drive.

Does anyone have a suggestion of a good RAM cleaning utility program? I looked at CNET, and there are so many available. Of course, they all say they are the best!!

Thanks...Greybeard<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sounds like it is time to defrag the drive, and perhaps run it past some diagnostic software.

[Redshirt]

The old OS debate. That's what got me to register. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I dual boot because 2K and Linux let you run apps that are either MS-only or Unix-only. There is a program for Linux called wine that runs some Win32 apps, but only a handful. Interestingly, it runs SE4 well (the combat screen does slow down a bit), though I had to install (1.0 on CD) and patch (to 1.49) under Windows since wine choked on the installer and the patch.

The only drawback to dual-booting is that Linux can't write to NTFS partitions, so my 2K installation is on a FAT32 filesystem.

[Thermodyne]

Do any of you guys use FreeBSD?

[DavidG]

Originally posted by rdouglass:

Reguardless of that, a lot of people love to bash MS. Of course, a lot of people love to bash the 'winner' of anything. Look at a car race: they take the winner's car and break it down to every Last bolt to see if they're cheating (noone gives a s#*t if the loser cheats!!). That goes for business, sports, you-name-it...
</$.02><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hehe what an interesting comparison. Especially since MS's 'car' was broken down and what do you know?! They were cheating! Unfortunaly unlike the car race there is little we can do about it.

[DavidG]

Originally posted by rdouglass:

My machine I'm typing this on has been running crash-free for over 2 weeks without a reboot or logoff.
</$.02><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ooooooo 2 whole weeks!! Wow! Am I the only one that finds this amusing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I mean yea that is pretty good but it is amusing that we live in a world were it is deemed acceptable if your computer only crashes once every two weeks. Good thing the same logic does not apply to cars or airplanes.

[Fyron]

Cars and airplanes don't use windoze. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Thermodyne]

A lot of the MS vs. open source argument would disappear if MS suddenly said that their software was free. The MS operating systems actually work well when properly administered, they just cost to damn much. A lot of people like me picked up licenses during the demise of the Dot Coms. Now MS is trying to find a way to expire these licenses. They feel that they were some how cut out of the loop. I say they could have been there bidding with the rest of us. Another big problem with MS is the need to install multiple layers of software. I would like to deploy an ISA server, but that would require an additional per/CPU license for ISA server on top of the base server license. It has been in the news that MS will begin charging for security. It seems to me that they have been doing it all along. $1100 to $6000+ for ISA server is paying dearly for security in my book.

[mlmbd]

DOZEing is left for the cockpit/bushbox crew, i.e the pilots. Either male or female!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[tesco samoa]

No but your navy uses Win NT... and 2000....
Me thinks this conversation will occur some time.

"Sir. Double Boggie on 6"
"Tracking...Tracking... "

GPF error at 324932648926145.dsaofdlj3.3349d... has caused the ........

"Sir, the screen is blue....

"Sir , my machine is asking for us to reboot..."

"Sir, my machine has locked up...."

Damn we should have stayed with Unix.......

I use 2000 and NT at work.
I use XP and SUSE at home.

[rdouglass]

Originally posted by Thermodyne:
And since you mentioned ASP, we might have some work for you over on the SELadder, so long as you are willing to take your pay in ladder credits http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What do you need done? PM me and we'll talk.

As to the other comments, I'm definitely not saying MS has the BEST product around, its just that however it happened MS has 'taken over the world' (at least as far as OS's are concerned - Evil Empire or not) and we were discussing Xp vs. ME (at least that was the topic title).

And when it comes to MS's software - YES, running for 2 weeks IS a significant timeframe for an MS desktop OS. Just check around and look at the multitude of forums out there based around this subject. Check out reliability for all the flavors and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Just remember to leave Linux/Unix and MacOS out of the picture. Yes, I DO agree that they are better and more stable OS's; its just that the majority, repeat majority, of the business world still runs on MS.

[KirbyEF]

I run windows because there are applications that have been written for windows that I want to use.

When a flavor of Linux gets a really good program that runs win32 applications well and I would consider switching to it! Less money in "Uncle Bill's" pocket the better!

I'm sorry, I didn't understand about the homeuser not required to renew their license.... The issues with MS requiring updates/upgrades and privacy control seems worse than having to pay them again for their license....

billg the visionary? He has been quoted in saying, "640KB is all the memory you will ever need" and him revising his "visionary" book "The Road Ahead" to include the internet.... come on.... He's just a bully and wants to win "AT ANY COST"... people dying and companies going out of business, no bother..... I've been messing about with computers since '81 and I don't liked MS, because what I have seen happen... Watch the movie "Antitrust" (the names have been changed to protect the guilty), it's based on real life practices of that "friendly" (fiendly) company in Redmond, WA (vs. the one in the movie Portland,OR).

[dumbluck]

Man you've got a lot of N.E.R.V. bringing up that movie. (Or was it spelled N.U.R.V.? I can't remember)

[Crazy_Dog]

Is N.U.R.V. and is a great film http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[dumbluck]

Well, I'd lean more towards "mediocre" in my review, but to each his own! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Daynarr]

Ok, time for a long one from me, and I haven't done this in a looooong time.

First to make something clear, I work as a Computer Technician and part of my job is to assemble, configure, maintain and repair Personal Computers (PC's http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). That means, that everything I say here will be based on my working experience only (about 5 years altogether). My native language is not English and I never worked in any English company so the terms I will use may not be 100% accurate if read by some American/English Technicians. I'll just try to translate them the best I can and simplify it so that anyone can read and understand what I am saying.

I would like to answer the original question first (the one about RAM). As far as RAM goes more is better, but to the limit. It heavily depends on system you use on your PC. In general, older (M$) systems have worse RAM management then the newer ones. So if you use WIN 95, WIN 98, WIN 98SE you will have much worse performance from your RAM then you would get from WIN 2000 or WIN XP. Let me explain something on how WIN 98(SE) uses RAM. By default (meaning if the program running doesn't instruct system otherwise) the applications that are no longer active are not unloaded from RAM and still take space. So, sooner or later (depends on you amount of RAM) you RAM will be filled and the virtual memory usage (large disk access and slowdowns) will pop up. So, a 128 MB RAM system will get, after a while, lots of Hard Disk activity and slowdowns. OTOH a 512 MB of RAM system will still get large HDD activity and slowdowns, but it will take much longer for that to happen. On WIN95-98 system adding more ram will effectively just buy you more time before you get slowdowns. This is definitely not good memory management, and this is mostly the reason why you occasionally need to reboot your system to get better performance.

There is a utility I have come across (no I don't work for that company of for the Microsoft http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). Its called Cache Manager. This utility fixes that memory management problem I was talking about. It frees up memory from inactive applications, shows you available RAM, manages your system Cache (closely connected to system performance) and defragments your RAM so that it is utilised more effectively. It also doesn't take any significant (noticeable) system resources since it is small, and mostly inactive (it just monitors your current available RAM and activates itself only when available RAM drops below a point). The usage is very simple as well. The wizards handle most of the functions, and all you need is just to use the defaults in order to get going. This little program works on all systems but is almost essential for those that use WIN 95-98. I use this one for more than a year and I NEVER had any problems with it (I used it on WIN 98SE and WIN XP Pro at my home).
The link is: http://www.outertech.com

As far as system discussions go, in my experience Win XP is the best M$ system so far (sorry Fyron http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). For home Users second best is Win 98 SE.
Win ME I would recommend to my enemies, and only to my enemies. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .
Win 95 is so old and is in no way better then Win 98 SE so all Win 95 Users should upgrade their systems, unless they have any special reasons for keeping it (like having some custom applications that are specifically designed for Win 95). It's hard for me to compare Win 2000 and Win XP since I am not Network Administrator and my knowledge there is limited, but I personally prefer Win XP since it has much better multimedia support and is completely 32bit based system (that can be both good and bad, depends on the programs you use and personal preferences), even more then Win 2000. As far as I can tell change from Win 2000 to Win XP is evolutionary more then revolutionary. I am using Win XP for a few months now on my home PC and I am more then happy with it (meaning I will not get back to Win 98SE I had installed before).
Btw. AFAIK (from other sources) the difference between Win XP home and professional Versions is just in network security so any other comparisons for common user (gamer) seem pointless. OS may not cause all the lockups and slowdowns. Mostly, the lockups are caused by hardware malfunction or hardware incompatibility (2 PC components may not work together), or just by bad driver or program (Warcraft 3 is perfect example. The original Version from CD would cause Win XP to reboot occasionally, so they issued a patch that fixed it. This was programs fault, not OS fault). So if you have system that locks up with Win 2000, it may be some other reason then OS. At work I DID have LOTS of problems with Win 2000, but they were mostly caused by bad driver support from manufacturers.

There, my rumble ends. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Fyron]

XP is only slightly different from 2000, and the changes are not agreeable to me. I haven't seen any lack of support for the stuff I use with 2000. XP has more problems running older software than 2000. And, the network security options in XP are just plain stupid (for the Home Version, at least). So, I will never get XP. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Baron Munchausen]

As with all Microsoft products, you don't want to get the newest edition of Windows. Using the first release of MS products is participating in the public beta testing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif When XP is patched a hundred times and the next Version is about to come out it will probably be safe to acquire and install XP. And by then lots of third-party software will be using 'special' features not available in Win98, too, so Win98 will be truly obsolete.

So I have learned that migration to the second generation just as it becomes the second generation is the best strategy. I call it 'live on the trailing edge' as opposed to 'live on the bleeding edge'. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[tesco samoa]

Fryon your off on that comment.

2000 is from the NT family.

XP is not.

[Fyron]

2000 is a blending of NT and 98.

And, that is a part of the problem with XP. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Wardad]

NT systems were not designed to be backward compatable with DOS based programs (read: DOS games, Win3.1 and Win 95 games).
Even NT 4.0 did not support USB, so the peripherial support was hell too (again it is bad for gaming).
NT is a more secure system, with (unix like) permissions being controlled by an admin. You could not break NT security by trying to boot it from a DOS disk.
Windows 2000 is built from the NT core. It is definitly better than NT. It supports USB and multi media functions.

I use win98se at home. I have not had a reason to run down to the store and spend $150 on some anal opsys that won't let me swap out a hard drive.

If linux could run my libary of DOS and WIN games I'd dump M$ in a heart beat.

[Gandalph]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Fryon your off on that comment.

2000 is from the NT family.

XP is not.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, 2000 is an upgrade of the NT kernel and XP is an offshoot of the upgraded (ie win2000) kernel. The basic core technologies of windows 2000 and XP are the same.

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Gandalph:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Fryon your off on that comment.

2000 is from the NT family.

XP is not.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, 2000 is an upgrade of the NT kernel and XP is an offshoot of the upgraded (ie win2000) kernel. The basic core technologies of windows 2000 and XP are the same.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[KirbyEF]

Once again Microsoft (the Evil Empire) has pulled a fast one on the masses.... XP is to 2000 as ME is to SE....

I'll stick with SE... and maybe 2000 for a server.

KirbyEF

[Fyron]

Originally posted by kirbyef:
Once again Microsoft (the Evil Empire) has pulled a fast one on the masses.... XP is to 2000 as ME is to SE....

I'll stick with SE... and maybe 2000 for a server.

KirbyEF<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Here here! All hail kirbyef, soothsayer of great wisdom! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif j/k

[Thermodyne]

Windows 2000 is NT-5. They just used the turn of the century as a marketing ploy. And XP is just 2000 with some add-ons. A few new wizards and some new policies. Then it was wrapped in a GUI that they thought would be more attractive to the home user. Oh, and lets not forget the new registration policy. If you spend some time in the registry, you will see that they are the same operating systems. XP home is another story. It was intended for the untrained masses, so many of the old configuration tools are missing or hidden. While it is hard to screw it up, it is also hard to reconfigure it away from a base install. And some time in the registry will turn up a few differences from the pro OS’s.

[KirbyEF]

Has anyone played with Linux?

I have used Red Hat and a couple of others...

KirbyEF

[mlmbd]

yes..................

mlmbd http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[Instar]

You can play with linux, just use a good WinE

[PvK]

Just chiming in on topic. Yes, XP sucks. Actually it's an emoticon (smiley) for eyes squinched in pain and tongue sticking out - very appropriate!

ME sucks too, but deciding which is worse is a little bit like comparing the unmodded Graviton Hellbore to the unmodded Planetary Shield Generator - they both suck, but in different ways.

Personally, I feel the only semi-OK Versions of WinDOS are:
Win 95 OSR 2.0
Win 95 OSR 2.5
Win 98 SE
Win 2K Pro

I'd probably recommend Win 98 SE as the best choice. Win 2K Pro is more crash-resistant, but does far more unwanted BS than I usually want my OS to be doing.

PvK

[dumbluck]

OK, then. I have WinXP, and although I will readily admit to not being very computer savy, I have no complaints. However, it seems that practically everybody else HATES it, yet they can't really come up with any reasons why, other than that it's made by microsoft.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm no Microsoft fan. But this is striking me as a bit...odd. So I have a question for all you XP haters: what OS do YOU use?

[ November 18, 2002, 09:58: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

[DavidG]

Originally posted by dumbluck:
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm no Microsoft fan. But this is striking me as a bit...odd. So I have a question for all you XP haters: what OS do YOU use?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well I'm not sure I'd call myself an XP hater (since I upgraded from ME and that really sucks, MS can't even get it's own software to work right on ME) but one of the things that sucks about XP is that some of your current software no longer works. Such as Norton Anti virus or Direct CD. It's kind of annoying to ugrade your OS and then find you have to shell our more cash to upgrade other vital software.

[mlmbd]

DavidG, it isn't so much that XP itself sucks, it does, but the way the Evil Empire MS markets it. Renewable license. Mandatory updates. Imagine you just bought a new car. The car dealer says; "Now you have to bring this car back every 6 weeks for tire rotation. If you don't, we have installed a GPS system in it. And we will permanently disable your car." Would you stand for that? I don't think anyone would.

As I posted earlier, I use 98SE modified.

mlmbd http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[DavidG]

mlmbd http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif Believe me I'm no fan of MS. Heck I used to have a computer with OS2 and Linux on it but eventually came to the realization that if I want to run certain Apps you've got to have Windows.

Mandatory Updates?? What's up with that? I hadn't heard that about XP before.

[PvK]

Many things suck about XP, but a few examples are more bloatware, the licensing scheme, the fact that it doesn't actually run faster than earlier OS's, the automatic upgrades and system changes from Microsoft, and the general dumbing down and removal of control from many parts of the operating system, and probably the worst part of all: the included .NET framework bloatware cr&p.

Not to mention annoyances like the Start menu not coming up immediately, the perverted wizard for the search engine, the incompatibilities with old stuff, etc.

I said the flavors of WinDOS I prefer in my post. Win 98 SE is I think my favourite (fast, with relatively low BS), though it's main weakness is the registry, which you have to limit how much crud you install or it will get jammed full of system-slowing nonsense.

PvK

[Fyron]

Originally posted by dumbluck:
OK, then. I have WinXP, and although I will readily admit to not being very computer savy, I have no complaints. However, it seems that practically everybody else HATES it, yet they can't really come up with any reasons why, other than that it's made by microsoft.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm no Microsoft fan. But this is striking me as a bit...odd. So I have a question for all you XP haters: what OS do YOU use?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, I believe I have already said why I don't like XP. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Kamog]

I don't like Windows XP either... Some of my old DOS programs that I used to use don't work at all under XP, and the ones that do work are so S-L-O-W... However, the one good thing about it is that it hasn't crashed on me yet. Windows 95 and 98 crashed at least one or twice a day... I still prefer 98, though! ME is OK except for the weird glitches in the networking feature.

[Fyron]

2000 doesn't crash on me, and it runs nearly every old game I have tried just fine. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[mlmbd]

From what I have heard 2000 is very stable. If I was ever thinking of another OS, it would between 2000 or Lindows! I think Lindows is up to v3.something.

mlmbd http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif