Map editor needs serious help!

[geoschmo]

I couldn't agree with you more Kwok, but we've been asking for improvments to the map editor since it was initially released and it just doesn't appear to be a priority. As frustrating as that can be.

Geoschmo

[Q]

I fully support your demands Kwok.
I was very enthusiastic when the map editor was released, but soon got tired to use it because it is so user-unfriendly.

[Master Belisarius]

Agree 100%!
Also, would like to see some things like copy and paste...
For the contest, create the map was a nightmare... but if I would had the copy and paste feature, I could have done a better map and more fast!

[Gryphin]

I would happily give up all changes for the next 6 months if I could have a Drog and Drop / Copy and Paste Map Editor.

[TerranC]

Blasphemy; it should read my mind rather than drag and drop.

Serious note: hear, hear.

[capnq]

Improve the randomness of map generation <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I've never noticed this to be a problem.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by capnq:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Improve the randomness of map generation <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I've never noticed this to be a problem.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, I don't know if this is what Qwok is refering to, but there is most definetly a problem with the random placement of empires on the map. Probably 90% of the maps I have ever created were randomply generated and I then placed common starting positions evenly spaced through the quadrant. The game just does a terrible job of that on it's own. Five players all crammed in the corner fighting for planets, and one guy way off by himself with noone within five systems of him. Wonder who's going to win that game? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[capnq]

I don't know if this is what Qwok is refering to, but there is most definetly a problem with the random placement of empires on the map. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have seen that problem, but I doubt that's what he meant, since the Set Up screen does that, not the Map Editor.

[geoschmo]

Yeah, good point Capn. Not sure what he meant then.

[Desdinova]

i think what he means is if you randomly generate a map they all are the same. i have just sat and generated maps and the first one is usually the same one each time.

1. open the editor and select a quadrant type. pay attention to what it looks like. generate more maps and just study what they look like.

2. close the editor and reopen it. select the same quadrant type and generate a map. after a while you will notice the same general shape of maps are created.

the only way i have been able to vary the design is to go into the quadranttypes.txt file and either alter the minimum angle between warp points or minimum distance between systems fields.

edit: i dont think the random # generater changes its seed. if the seed is not changed it will generate the same "random" number sequence each time. so if all values remain the same the editor will create the same maps.

edit2: you can generate some pretty unusual maps by changing those two fields. however if you make the angles to large do not make the minimum distance greater than 2 or it will cause the editor to fail.

edit3: also changing the type of placement will affect the map. check out FYRONS QUADRANT MOD it has several good examples in it.

[ November 22, 2002, 20:31: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[spoon]

Originally posted by desdinova:
i think what he means is if you randomly generate a map they all are the same. i have just sat and generated maps and the first one is usually the same one each time. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, this is true. The workaround is to generate a map in the game, then save it, the load it in the editor. The game always generates unique maps. The editor always generates the same maps.

-Spoon

[Captain Kwok]

Desdinova was right in his guess about the randomness problem.

But seriously, SE:IV is winding down and most of the major issues have been dealt with. The changes to the map editor are not dramatic and can be easily done. It will give the game a boost as a whole bunch of new maps and scenarios could be made!!! Maybe even attract a few more buyers.

[Shyrka]

Winding down? Are the SE series going to be abandoned by Malfador? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Edit: Typo with "winding"

[ November 22, 2002, 22:58: Message edited by: Shyrka ]

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Shyrka:
Winding down? Are the SE series going to be abandoned by Malfador? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Edit: Typo with "winding"<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">SE3 wound down before SE4 was produced. There is no reason to think MM won't be starting on SE5 sometime soon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Captain Kwok]

I am tired of dealing with the map editor. It can be made infinately better with a just a few minor additions, such as:

</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Generate Random System</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Generate Random Object (Planet, Asteroid, etc)</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Easy add Warp Points, ie, click on two systems and viola!</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Improve the randomness of map generation
</font><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Those are just a few suggestions. We all know that Space Empires IV Gold is winding down and the next patch or two will probably be the Last, so why not fix up the map editor? It might lead to more maps/scenarios that might help sales a little bit. I know a scenario editor is a little too much ask, but to make the map editor a bit more functional is not.

[tesco samoa]

oh yea... me too...

Open source it... we can fix it our selves ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Shyrka]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
SE3 wound down before SE4 was produced. There is no reason to think MM won't be starting on SE5 sometime soon.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm happy to hear that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Open source it... we can fix it our selves ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That would be perfect!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I can't agree more with this idea.