Anyone think Masters of Orion 3 will be any good??

[Kuroth1]

Will it be better then SEIV Gold???

[Lemmy]

Yes.

Less micromanagement, better diplomacy (GalCiv will have even better diplo), hopefully better AI.
And shiny pwetty 3D combat

[ December 27, 2002, 16:36: Message edited by: Lemmy ]

[capnq]

I am not yet convinced that MOO3 will actually be released before the suits kill it completely.

[Ragnarok]

From what I hear it will suck duck. Last I heard they removed alot of features and so forth. So no I do not think it will be better then SEIV. Actually it will not even come close to being as good as SEIV is.

[oleg]

It will be much better because of <drums rolling> real-time combat ! But wait, that'not enough. I want a first personal shooter element in my 4x TBS game !

[Fyron]

Real-time combat is overrated, and almost always much worse than turn-based combat (as it encourages click-festing).

[Hank]

I bet the MOO3 AI will do very poorly in the micromanagement arena. Enough so that if you are playing against other humans you will have to perform the micromanagement yourself to stay par with a human that is doing the same.

[thorfrog]

I've heard alot of bad things about this product. Here is a list of things taken out:

-Customizing Your Empire's Color
-Customizing Your Ship's Look
-Customizing Your Homeworld's Name
-Customizing Each Star's Name You Conquer
-Seeing Pretty Stars On The Galaxy Map
-Bombs taken out???
-Not Able To Capture/Board Enemy Ships

I don't think I'll be touching this.

[Taera]

MoO3 might be good for SE fans, but thats untill System Wars comes out. we'll see what will be better then.

[thorfrog]

Does System Wars have a web site??

[Thei R'vek]

no, System Wars does not have a website. It is, to my knowledge, an SE-based RTS game in a single system within the SE Universe......

and MOO3 has the one feature that I hate most about SE4: SIMULTANEOUS MOVEMENT. I hate and despise it, it's like a compromise between turn based and RTS. If you want TBS, play TBS, if you want RTS, play RTS but SM is just stupid.

[Fyron]

I think that SE: System Wars has been put on hold.

[gregebowman]

Any idea when MOO3 will come out? Last time I looked in PC Gamer magazine, they said the game had already been released, yet I still don't see it in the stores.

[Lemmy]

First, here's a preview:
http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/previews/0,10869,2902095,00.html

About those feature cuts....do you realise how that most of these features aren't even in SE4, and that most also aren't even worth it.


-Customizing Your Empire's Color
-Customizing Your Ship's Look
-Customizing Your Homeworld's Name
-Customizing Each Star's Name You Conquer
-Seeing Pretty Stars On The Galaxy Map
-Bombs taken out???
-Not Able To Capture/Board Enemy Ships<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Only 2 of those have real gameplay value, there are pleny of other things in MOO3 that aren't in SE4.

Even with all those features cut, there is plenty of game left to play. I think you should look at what is IN the game, not out, because then you could just as well say the SE4 sucks.

You have to keep in mind that MOO3 started as an ambitious project, by MOO fans. So off course, just like on this forum, you'll have a lot of ideas at, all meant to make a better game. QS has done a good job trying to incorporate most of those idea into MOO3, but it would be impossible to keep all of the ideas originally thought of, it would simply be to much, or to complicated, to...well, you get the idea, no matter how hard you try, not all concepts can work together, so some have to go.

Before people start bashing about feature cuts you heard about, i suggest looking at the game itself, and see how many innovative ideas are still in it.


Real-time combat is overrated, and almost always much worse than turn-based combat (as it encourages click-festing).<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In general, yes, but i don't think MOO3 is like this.
From the moo3 site.
Consider: You've got a HUMONGOUS fleet. Bigger than anything you ever saw in MOO2. You've organized into... what? A dozen or so Task Forces. That dozen "pieces" is what you're commanding in real-time. And we're not talking "twitch" real-time, either. No, this is more like HARPOON, Death Star approaching Yavan "cinematic" real-time. Ample for you to think under the pressure and easy for you to issue commands on the Fleet and Task Force level. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">For me it's actually a good sign that QS/IG delayed the release, after what happened with civ3/ptw.

[Lemmy]

Originally posted by gregebowman:
Any idea when MOO3 will come out? Last time I looked in PC Gamer magazine, they said the game had already been released, yet I still don't see it in the stores.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Rumors are late january at its earliest, other say 28th february, i'm thinking it will be 28th february

[Phoenix-D]

"and MOO3 has the one feature that I hate most about SE4: SIMULTANEOUS MOVEMENT. I hate and despise it, it's like a compromise between turn based and RTS. If you want TBS, play TBS, if you want RTS, play RTS but SM is just stupid."

IMO simulatious is the BEST way to go about things. No excessive time pressure like in a RTS, and you avoid the "my men are sitting there doing nothing and dying" issue with turn-based.

Phoenix-D

[Lemmy]

ah, here is the cutlist:
http://moo3.quicksilver.com/official/cutlist.html

I actually agree with most of the reasons they give for cutting these features, wether it is the best solution or not, it isn't just random axing.

[PvK]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
"and MOO3 has the one feature that I hate most about SE4: SIMULTANEOUS MOVEMENT. I hate and despise it, it's like a compromise between turn based and RTS. If you want TBS, play TBS, if you want RTS, play RTS but SM is just stupid."

IMO simulatious is the BEST way to go about things. No excessive time pressure like in a RTS, and you avoid the "my men are sitting there doing nothing and dying" issue with turn-based.

Phoenix-D<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm with Phoenix-D on this, although the SE4 system could be improved with more orders (such as pursuit, join fleet, and engagement/retreat parameters).

PvK

[Phoenix-D]

"such as pursuit, join fleet, and engagement/retreat parameters"

The first can be done. Use the attack command. If they can't fight the target for whatever reason, they follow it. (works on allied ships- your ships park in their sector and follow them if they leave)

Phoenix-D

[Mephisto]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
I think that SE: System Wars has been put on hold.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't think so. I think they changed the name, thats all.

Originally posted by Thei R'vek:
... and MOO3 has the one feature that I hate most about SE4: SIMULTANEOUS MOVEMENT. I hate and despise it, it's like a compromise between turn based and RTS. If you want TBS, play TBS, if you want RTS, play RTS but SM is just stupid.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think it is a great way to get the best of both worlds.

[Captain Kwok]

I think that MOO3 will be a decent game.

For me though, it would be fun for a little bit, but then I'd get tired out of it because I wouldn't be able to customize it, just like MOO2. I enjoyed that game at first, but after awhile I was like "I wish I could change this..." and so on. My favourite part of SE:IV is that I can make it anything I want. Since I cannot program my own game, it's the next best thing. I'd take that over better AI diplomacy anyday.

If I see the MOO3 in the discount bin next year, then I might pick it up.

I don't like RTS because I have trouble trying to keep up with everything that is going on. I like to be involved! Imagine trying to manage a 200 planet empire at war with several other races? Yikes! RTS tactical combat would be fine with me, but not the entire game!

[PvK]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
"such as pursuit, join fleet, and engagement/retreat parameters"

The first can be done. Use the attack command. If they can't fight the target for whatever reason, they follow it. (works on allied ships- your ships park in their sector and follow them if they leave)

Phoenix-D<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh, yes, of course. It would be nice though if you could tell your units to engage if/when new threats appear during a turn. The unit launch/recovery system also suffers some loss of control during simultaneous mode games, because the interface doesn't offer enough control over the types and numbers of units to launch and recover (i.e., I can't launch 4 fighters and 6 bombers from a carrier, unless I have another ship to shuffle units back and forth, since Launch All Fighters is the most detail I can do in Simultaneous mode.).

PvK

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Mephisto:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
I think that SE: System Wars has been put on hold.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't think so. I think they changed the name, thats all.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, the game was SE: Quadrant Wars, and it has been put on hold.

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
I don't like RTS because I have trouble trying to keep up with everything that is going on. I like to be involved! Imagine trying to manage a 200 planet empire at war with several other races? Yikes! RTS tactical combat would be fine with me, but not the entire game!<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Isn't the only part of the game that is real time the combat engine?

[DarkHorse]

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
I think that MOO3 will be a decent game.

For me though, it would be fun for a little bit, but then I'd get tired out of it because I wouldn't be able to customize it, just like MOO2. I enjoyed that game at first, but after awhile I was like "I wish I could change this..." and so on. My favourite part of SE:IV is that I can make it anything I want. Since I cannot program my own game, it's the next best thing. I'd take that over better AI diplomacy anyday.

If I see the MOO3 in the discount bin next year, then I might pick it up.

I don't like RTS because I have trouble trying to keep up with everything that is going on. I like to be involved! Imagine trying to manage a 200 planet empire at war with several other races? Yikes! RTS tactical combat would be fine with me, but not the entire game!<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The game has some interesting ideas. One of them is 'imperial focus' points. Basically the game only lets you micromanage to a certain point, then you HAVE to rely on ministers to do everything else. You can shift your 'focus' around from turn to turn, but overall you can only do so much.

[Phoenix-D]

"The game has some interesting ideas. One of them is 'imperial focus' points. Basically the game only lets you micromanage to a certain point, then you HAVE to rely on ministers to do everything else."

I'd be much more OK with this if AIs weren't A. idiots and B. not mindreaders

An AI cannot know what I'm planning, and it will never be as good as a human player. That and I don't even get the satifcation of poling the minister when he screws up royally..sheesh. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Phoenix-D

[Fyron]

I thought the Imperial Focus Points system had been cut...

[Atrocities]

I am not yet convinced that MOO3 will actually be released before the suits kill it completely.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I had not heard about this, could you elaberate?

I played MOO2, and thought it was ok, but no where near the game play of SEIV. I have seen a lot of pictures of Moo3, and read a lot about it. It sounds like it will be a fun game, but to compare it to SEIV would be like comparing Apples to Oranges IMHO.

SEIV has so much to offer in regards to modding, expandability, depth in playing, etc that to compare it to Moo3, which has yet to be released is pointless.

Moo3 will be a game in its own class much the same as Stars and SEIV are now.

The game that I think will rock is Stars Genisis Super Nova if it will ever be released.

[Lemmy]

For me though, it would be fun for a little bit, but then I'd get tired out of it because I wouldn't be able to customize it, just like MOO2. I enjoyed that game at first, but after awhile I was like "I wish I could change this..." and so on. My favourite part of SE:IV is that I can make it anything I want. Since I cannot program my own game, it's the next best thing. I'd take that over better AI diplomacy anyday.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually MOO3 will also be quite moddable, all the data where to be in files that can be opened by Excel with no problems.

SEIV has so much to offer in regards to modding, expandability, depth in playing, etc that to compare it to Moo3, which has yet to be released is pointless.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Modding is possible, maybe not to the same degree as in se4, but the fact that the data can be opened by somthing other then an ordinary text viewer says a lot. Expandability = modding?
DeEpth, i think MOO3 will offer a lot more depth then se4 actaully, you'll have "real" minister for example, with their own background. Your ships have captians with more stats then just experience that define the combat outcome.
Your planets have regions, each region can be specialized.

Moo3 will be a game in its own class much the same as Stars and SEIV are now. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">To an TBS outsider, MOO3 and se4 are just clones, just like DOOM and Counterstrike are the same to me, any FPS fan would seriously disagree with me on that though.

I thought the Imperial Focus Points system had been cut... <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes it has, the thought behind it was that the player shouldn't be forced to leave things to the AI, but the AI should be good enough so that the player would want to leave things to the AI.

[ December 28, 2002, 09:54: Message edited by: Lemmy ]

[Mephisto]

Actually, the game was SE: Quadrant Wars, and it has been put on hold.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think it is called SE: Starfury and it has not been put on hold - definitly.

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Mephisto:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, the game was SE: Quadrant Wars, and it has been put on hold.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think it is called SE: Starfury and it has not been put on hold - definitly.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, Starfury is a different game than Quadrant Wars. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Thei R'vek]

Starfury is an SE-based game that is eaither FPS or RPG(depending on what rumours you want to listen to) whereas SE: System Wars(which was formerly named Quadrant Wars) is a system-level SE-based RTS game in which the RTS engine is supposed to form the base for SE:V. All this can be found out simply by emailing Malfador and asking them, I've never had any trouble with them they have been quite open with me and I would assume them to be so with all their fans.

[mlmbd]

Well I think that MOO3 is going to be good. Even if the reviewers trash it. I am going to buy it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[Rojero]

Here is my two cents...I have played a lot of wargame genres...and I prefer the Space Themed one...My first few were...and man i am dating myself..
Imperium Galactica by SSI
Reach For the Stars by SSG
and finally..
Master of Orion

What I hope wont happen to MOO3 is what happened to Reach for the Stars II came out...it had so many possibilities...and but...was somehow gave me that empty feeling..graphics can only go so far...but damn replaybility...and most importantly
TIME! if my time is wasted...i would be very disappointed...but then again it would not be the first time.
Anyway...I read it..don't know till it comes out on the 16 Jan 2003..and I have a reserved copy...sheesh...wish all of us wargamers luck! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Mephisto]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
No, Starfury is a different game than Quadrant Wars. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[capnq]

I am not yet convinced that MOO3 will actually be released before the suits kill it completely.

I had not heard about this, could you elaberate?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, you have to consider that this is a cynical, pessimistic, burnt-out ex-computer programmer speaking. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I have not followed MOO3's development very closely, in part because I've only played MOO and not MOO2. I tried reading some of the material posted on the Web site, and got put off by a number of things.

Virtually everything I have heard about MOO3 since I gave up on the site has been negative. Multiple release delays, the most innovative new features cut, the lead designer leaving the company, bad blood and attitude problems between the remaining developers and some of the fans. Things that are being touted as strengths make the game even less attractive to me. (You need Excel to mod the data files!?! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif )

I haven't actually heard any rumors that management might cancel MOO3, but everything I have heard in the Last year or so sounds like the game is experiencing Death By A Thousand Cuts.

I frankly expect that whatever form it's finally released in, it will provoke as sharply divided opinions as Civ III did.

[Lemmy]

Things that are being touted as strengths make the game even less attractive to me. (You need Excel to mod the data files!?! )<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You don't need Ecxel, it's just that the format is compatible with Excel.

[ December 29, 2002, 22:06: Message edited by: Lemmy ]

[TerranC]

Originally posted by Lemmy:
You don't need Ecxel, it's just that the format is compatible with Excel.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Then what else is it compatible with? If the answer is just excel, You've only said that a car is a four-wheeled vehicle.

[Fyron]

Probably Notepad.

[DarkHorse]

Originally posted by Lemmy:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I thought the Imperial Focus Points system had been cut... <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes it has, the thought behind it was that the player shouldn't be forced to leave things to the AI, but the AI should be good enough so that the player would want to leave things to the AI.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Figures, the one innovative idea they have gets cut. Ah well, they probably wouldn't have implemented it well anyway. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Lemmy]

Originally posted by TerranC:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Lemmy:
You don't need Ecxel, it's just that the format is compatible with Excel.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Then what else is it compatible with? If the answer is just excel, You've only said that a car is a four-wheeled vehicle.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry, should've been more clear, they'll be text files, though i'm not sure if they will have a .txt extension, but any text editor should be able to read the files.
They are compatible with Excel by seperating all the fields by a fixed character, usually tabs or comma's..

[Mephisto]

Originally posted by Lemmy:
Sorry, should've been more clear, they'll be text files, though i'm not sure if they will have a .txt extension, but any text editor should be able to read the files.
They are compatible with Excel by seperating all the fields by a fixed character, usually tabs or comma's..<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, I think this is a good feature and I wish SE4 had a comma-separated file format, too. It's that much simpler to mod large list this way.