Maintenace Value [Archive] - .com.unity Forums

DavidG

January 12th, 2003, 12:49 AM

So is there a bug in the Maintence value for your racial trait?? I just experimented with this and the results you get are clearly not in line with the values you select. ie you would think that if you choose 110% for maintenance you would be 10% better that a race with the default 100%. But this is not the case!!! Could be why I'm getting my but kicked in a PBW game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Fyron

January 12th, 2003, 01:00 AM

It isn't a bug, so much as an oversight. That trait lowers the base maintenance, not the maintenance paid.

You can fix it in mods though. Make the base maint. paid be 100%. Give all ship sizes 75% maintenance reduction, and bases 96% (IIRC). Then, 1 point in Maint Redux actually lowers maintenance paid by 1%. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Of course, then you need to raise max level of Maint Redux and lower its cost and raise the threshhold level, as 10% becomes worth less than 500 points. Look at the Pirates and Nomads mod for an example of a mod that fixes the Maint Redux trait.

Krsqk

January 12th, 2003, 06:41 AM

Right now, you get better performance than what the numbers indicate. A 10% increase in your maintenance trait lowers your base rate from 25% to 15%--a 40% improvement. Some mods, including PvK's Balance Mod and SJ's Pirates and Nomads Mod, seek to address this issue.

Fyron

January 12th, 2003, 06:58 AM

Krsqk, the numbers tell you how much it will lower base maintenance. They lower it by exacty what they indicate. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Krsqk

January 13th, 2003, 06:03 AM

To-may-to or to-mah-to? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

If you're thinking it lowers it from 25% to 15%, you're right. If you're thinking it lowers your maintenance total by 10%, you're getting a better deal than you think.

Fyron

January 13th, 2003, 06:10 AM

I think that it does say it lowers base maintenance costs somewhere official. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Slick

January 13th, 2003, 06:25 AM

To quote my wife...

"...half of one, six dozen of another, it makes no difference..."

Slick.

DirectorTsaarx

January 14th, 2003, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by DavidG:
So is there a bug in the Maintence value for your racial trait?? I just experimented with this and the results you get are clearly not in line with the values you select. ie you would think that if you choose 110% for maintenance you would be 10% better that a race with the default 100%. But this is not the case!!! Could be why I'm getting my but kicked in a PBW game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif So you think you're getting your butt kicked because everyone else chose to reduce their maintenance costs by 10% (i.e., instead of paying 25% maintenance, only paying 15% maintenance)? Or did you modify the maintenance in the wrong direction (i.e., you're now paying 35% maintenance instead of 25%)?

Fyron

January 15th, 2003, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by Slick:
To quote my wife...

"...half of one, six dozen of another, it makes no difference..."

Slick.half of one = .5
six dozen of another = 72

You are telling me that .5 and 72 are the same? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

I think the correct cliche is "...half dozen of one, six of another, it makes no difference..."

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

But anyways, the difference between lowering maintenance paid and base maintenance cost is enormous! Assume the maintenance is 1000.

Lower maintenance paid by 10%, you get 900.

Lower base maintenance paid by 10%, you get:
1000 / 0.25 = 4000 (cost of ship)
4000 * 0.15 = 600

That subtle difference of wording makes quite a big difference! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

DavidG

January 15th, 2003, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by DirectorTsaarx:
[QUOTE]So you think you're getting your butt kicked because everyone else chose to reduce their maintenance costs by 10% (i.e., instead of paying 25% maintenance, only paying 15% maintenance)? Or did you modify the maintenance in the wrong direction (i.e., you're now paying 35% maintenance instead of 25%)?Well the butt kicking is a bit debatable (and could be due to other factors :-) )but my point was that I never realized the effect of changing your racial maintenance value. I think it is clearly a VERY missleading. IE. I had always assumed that choosing 110% Maintenance trait would mean you are 10% better than normal when in fact it is much much higher. I think all the other traits work that way don't they???

As others have not pointed out the math is like so:
100% value = 25% maintenance
110% value = 15% maintenance

I gather there may be something in the manual somewhere that says this is the way it is but certainly there is nothing to suggest this on the race setup screeen

DavidG

January 15th, 2003, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
You are telling me that .5 and 72 are the same? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif
[/QB]Well I think his wife is.

I think Slick was submiting an entry to the "hillareous things our women say" thread. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

oleg

January 15th, 2003, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by DavidG:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DirectorTsaarx:
[QUOTE]So you think you're getting your butt kicked because everyone else chose to reduce their maintenance costs by 10% (i.e., instead of paying 25% maintenance, only paying 15% maintenance)? Or did you modify the maintenance in the wrong direction (i.e., you're now paying 35% maintenance instead of 25%)?Well the butt kicking is a bit debatable (and could be due to other factors :-) )but my point was that I never realized the effect of changing your racial maintenance value. I think it is clearly a VERY missleading. IE. I had always assumed that choosing 110% Maintenance trait would mean you are 10% better than normal when in fact it is much much higher. I think all the other traits work that way don't they???

As others have not pointed out the math is like so:
100% value = 25% maintenance
110% value = 15% maintenance

I gather there may be something in the manual somewhere that says this is the way it is but certainly there is nothing to suggest this on the race setup screeen<hr /></blockquote>In addition to maintenance, happines,reproduction and tolerance are not what one would think of.

[ January 15, 2003, 12:04: Message edited by: oleg ]

Slick

January 15th, 2003, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Slick:
To quote my wife...

"...half of one, six dozen of another, it makes no difference..."

Slick.half of one = .5
six dozen of another = 72

You are telling me that .5 and 72 are the same? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

I think the correct cliche is "...half dozen of one, six of another, it makes no difference..."

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

But anyways, the difference between lowering maintenance paid and base maintenance cost is enormous! Assume the maintenance is 1000.

Lower maintenance paid by 10%, you get 900.

Lower base maintenance paid by 10%, you get:
1000 / 0.25 = 4000 (cost of ship)
4000 * 0.15 = 600

That subtle difference of wording makes quite a big difference! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <hr /></blockquote>I guess the humor was totally lost on you. Ok. Let me explain. The thread was talking about how the maintenance reduction worked. Some people thought it was a flat reduction in total maintanence, but it is really a lowering of the base rate which makes it significantly more effective.

Yes, I understand that "half of 1 and six dozen of another" are different.

Yes, I understand the correct cliche.

Yes, that was a direct quote from my wife and I thought it was funny at the time since she was serious.

Yes, I thought it was funny and applicable to this thread because the two understandings are NOT the same and it DOES make a difference. Maybe not everyone caught the joke.

Slick.

[ January 15, 2003, 15:44: Message edited by: Slick ]

Slick

January 15th, 2003, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by DavidG:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
You are telling me that .5 and 72 are the same? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif
Well I think his wife is.

I think Slick was submiting an entry to the "hillareous things our women say" thread. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif [/QB]<hr /></blockquote>That's right and I got lots more. Here is another one: in reference to a luncheon that she was unhappy about what they were serving "They were only serving these tiny ham sandwiches. It just wasn't Kosher."

I wrote down some of the better ones, but I don't have the notebook with me right now.

Slick.

geoschmo

January 15th, 2003, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by Slick:
Maybe not everyone caught the joke.
No, not everyone. Just everyone except Fyron. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Fyron

January 15th, 2003, 09:31 PM

Must not have been that good of a joke then. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif