Did 1.84 screw over support craft in fleets?

[Shoujo]

Hello, I noticed that the most recent patch mentioned how ships in a fleet would not follow their individual orders. What I'm imagining will happen is that if I say pick wall formation, and send a fleet out, the unarmed and unarmored support craft (repair, construction, supply) would basically become cannon fodder because they'd be forced to stay in formation. If I put weapons on my support craft, then that means the AI will target them. If I don't put weapons on them, then that means that an opponent with half a brain would switch their targeting priorities to best target my support craft, and slow down my fleet.

Leaving them behind with minimal defense means again they'd be a sitting duck. Leaving a significant defense force would mean the main fleet may suffer. Taking them along doesn't seem like much of an option either.

*sigh* I wish the double wall formations could be configured so that support craft would at least stay behind the armed ships.

Am I being worried over nothing, or is this a valid concern?

[couslee]

I have a fleet with both armed ships and PDC only transports. the fleet order does not include "don't get hurt, but the transpots have capture planet as primary, and don't get hurt as secondary. Right off the git, the transports make a corner run. so a fodder idea still won't work. I feel it is either NOT fixed, or I have some setting wrong. I am trying to find what that setting may be, but with each different test battle, the the always break formation. so I am beginging to thing the previous is more correct than the latter. (read, it's not fixed).

[Ragnarok]

couslee, I replied in another thread this problem. But put a single weapon on your PDC ships. Until you do they will run for the corner. If you have a weapon on the ship it will stay and defend your fleet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[couslee]

lol. Ragnarok, we are cross posting all over the place

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by couslee:
lol. Ragnarok, we are cross posting all over the place<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Indeed we are. lol

Now if we start posting answers before the question is asked then I will be worried. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ January 31, 2003, 22:44: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

[Phoenix-D]

The ships aren't supposed to run to the corner anymore UNLESS you tell them to break formation. Personally, I always tell them to do that.

Re: PDC ships: the problem here is a ship will run away unless it has something to do. If you are fighting only fighters, your main ships should run and the PDC ships attack (assuming you main ships can't hit fighters and have no PDC)

If you're fighting ships, the PDC only-ships run because they can't hurt them. Then they run toward the missiles when they are fired, only to run away again when the missiles hit or are destroyed.

Phoenix-D

[Shoujo]

Phew. Thank goodness ships can still break formation. That's all I wanted to hear. Thanks for the replies http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[geoschmo]

Troop transports are handeled differently. They will run for the corner until the weapons platforms are gone, period. It doesn't matter if you put PDC on them or any other weapons. They don't approach even to shoot at missles. They run for the corner until the WPlats are gone. Also doesn't matter what the secondary strategy is becasue this is part of the insturctions built into the primary strategy of "capture planet".

You could get them to stay with the fleet by changing their primary strategy to optimal, or max range or something. But if you do this they will not drop their troops under any circumstances.

This behavior is hard coded and cannot be changed by any combination of weapons or strategies.

Edit: And this is how it was before and with 1.84. It was not affected by the patch.

Geoschmo

[ February 01, 2003, 00:22: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[Puke]

I think that if they are ALONE, then they will attempt to rush the weapon platforms and drop their troops. I really wish this was configurable, sometimes you really dont want to shoot at the planet. or in an early game of porportions, sometimes you CANT damage the planet, but you have enough troops or infantry to take it.

[capnq]

This is at least the third time this has come up.

As Mephisto said in early November: (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=007383;p=2)

'People, keep cool. The fix doesn't change anything except fixing the bug that ships in a fleet with "Don't get hurt" orders and "Don't break formation=true" were not retreating but instead fall back to their ship strategy (i.e. in most cases they did attack).'

[DavidG]

Originally posted by capnq:
This is at least the third time this has come up.

As Mephisto said in early November: (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=007383;p=2)

'People, keep cool. The fix doesn't change anything except fixing the bug that ships in a fleet with "Don't get hurt" orders and "Don't break formation=true" were not retreating but instead fall back to their ship strategy (i.e. in most cases they did attack).'<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Except that I don't think this bug is fixed. Ships still do not appear to obey 'Don't Hurt me' orders. They do in the first turn of combat then move in for the attack.

[oleg]

In a 1.84 game I currently playing, ships with "do not hurt" startegy break up from attack ships and run away during the battle. I do not notice any difference from what was before. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[PvK]

Originally posted by Puke:
I think that if they are ALONE, then they will attempt to rush the weapon platforms and drop their troops. I really wish this was configurable, sometimes you really dont want to shoot at the planet. or in an early game of porportions, sometimes you CANT damage the planet, but you have enough troops or infantry to take it.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah. How about if you send in ships with orders not to to target planets, to take out enemy ships/fighters/sats, and then have them leave in the same turn, and the transports move in alone afterwards? Seems like it should work, except if some of your strike ships get immobilized over the planet, or something else interferes with the plan.

PvK

[DavidG]

Originally posted by oleg:
In a 1.84 game I currently playing, ships with "do not hurt" startegy break up from attack ships and run away during the battle. I do not notice any difference from what was before. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's not the ships orders but the Fleet orders that don't work. If you put ships in a fleet and give the fleet 'don't hurt me' orders they attack anyway. (or I should say revert to thier ship class orders) The only way around this is to give the ships a don't hurt me strategy too. Which is often not desirable since you may have other similar class ships attacking that turn.

[Phoenix-D]

"It's not the ships orders but the Fleet orders that don't work. If you put ships in a fleet and give the fleet 'don't hurt me' orders they attack anyway. (or I should say revert to thier ship class orders)"

You are having them stay in formation right? IIRC the fix only applies if you have everyone stay in formation..

Phoenix-D