Best Mod for solo play? [Archive]

Gargantua

February 2nd, 2003, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by Omega_Prime:
What is the best Mod for solo play guys?
Or is it best, the first time, to just leave it alone?TDM mode is a must if you want better AI.
Look here (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=008048)

Atrocities

February 2nd, 2003, 08:50 PM

AST Mod (http://astmod.com)

[ February 02, 2003, 19:00: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Omega_Prime

February 2nd, 2003, 08:54 PM

Cool thanks!

couslee

February 2nd, 2003, 09:22 PM

NO! my MOD is better!
No it isn't, your MOD sucks!
No it don't!
Yes it does!
No, You suck!
So does your momma, and realy good too!

A fist fight nearly breaks out, and the involved posters took their anger out on each other in the newest KOTH matchup. Neither has been heard from since.

Slick

February 2nd, 2003, 10:01 PM

My personal recommendation is to learn to play the game unmodded so that you can use that as a basis to see if you enjoy the mods later. Then after you have played using several different styles and racial traits, download the mods of your choice, read their readmes and see if you like them. I can personally say that my first choice was the TDM modpack because it only changes the AI's (adds and makes tougher) and from there the sky is the limit.

Slick.

oleg

February 3rd, 2003, 01:52 AM

I play Proportions mod only and besides few hotseat games with my wife I play it solo. After Proportions I feel unmodded SE is plain silly - no "realism" whatsoever. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Omega_Prime

February 3rd, 2003, 07:26 AM

Thanks guys. BTW, is the simulator entertaining enough by its self to set up and watch? I mean, is it at least as interesting as say, soccor?

Fyron

February 3rd, 2003, 08:19 AM

Proportions is no more realistic than unmodded se4. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Dralasite

February 6th, 2003, 04:01 AM

I like devnull as well for solo. They have Space Monsters http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

One thing you have to watch out for with mods is many of them do not have AIs that work with the mod.

F Te antKe

February 6th, 2003, 01:28 PM

Omega_Prime
Fyron's Quadrant Mod (FQM) is great. It generates a greater variety of quadrants.
Just occurred to me. Which Version of the FQM is the most "AI Friendly"?
I'm sure you have seen reference to the TDM Mod pack and the Image mods. Both are well worth installing.

NAV

February 6th, 2003, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Proportions is no more realistic than unmodded se4. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif There are over 7500000 people that may have a copy of early Versions of Proportions. Thousands of which play it probably every week and receive enjoyment from it. I am one of them. With every new Version release, Peter von Kleinsmid the creator of Proportions has made advancements in the AI abilities. Peter is currently up to v2.53 and we all look forward to his updates.

I am with you Oleg. Proportions concepts do add more realism to the base SE4 game.

[ February 06, 2003, 14:08: Message edited by: NAV ]

solops

February 6th, 2003, 06:02 PM

I really enjoy Proportions and AST. I play TDM, too, but the AIs are a bit out of date. Once they get the new TDM update out of beta, it will be a "must" as well. Side note, I think the AST mod incorporates the FQM mod as well as several others.

geoschmo

February 6th, 2003, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by NAV:
There are over 7500000 people that may have a copy of early Versions of Proportions.http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif This is quite obviously a mistype. Not sure what number you were trying to put here but I feel pretty safe in saying it's going to be a number less than the total number of people that have bought SE4 and SE4 Gold, not more. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Geoschmo

[ February 06, 2003, 16:14: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Suicide Junkie

February 6th, 2003, 06:23 PM

I'd have to reccommend trying Pirates & Nomads http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

P&N V3.1b (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1035243311.zip) The latest solo capable gold Version.

You can also add any AI that was designed for the unmodded game by using this AI Patcher (link) (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/AIPatcher2b.zip) to convert them from regular to P&N.
That includes TDM AIs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Note that playing as a "Normal" will mean the game is no harder than normal, but you will get lots of toys to play with.
Playing as a Pirate or Nomad race is where the big challenges come in http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Don't expect to conquer the universe, think of it as more of an RPG, where you and your party go exploring the universe while fighting off the hordes of Orcs and Phong and finding treasure. But mainly just trying to make a living in a hostile universe http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

solops

February 6th, 2003, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by NAV:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
[qb] Peter is currently up to v2.53 and we all look forward to his updates.

Proportions 2.53? I can only find 2.51. How can I get something newer and shinier?

oleg

February 6th, 2003, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by solops:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by NAV:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
[qb] Peter is currently up to v2.53 and we all look forward to his updates.

Proportions 2.53? I can only find 2.51. How can I get something newer and shinier?<hr /></blockquote>PvK posted a link in some other thread but not on his website. Named "Proportions" I think.

PvK

February 6th, 2003, 07:40 PM

Yes I posted a link to 2.5.3 beta on that thread on Monday. I am going to try to post a new release Version today though which should be better and be good to upgrade existing games (addresses Fryon's complaints about upgrading 2.4.2->2.5).

As for improved realism, that's one of the major goals of Proportions... or at least, to make fit better my own ideas of what would be more realistic and interesting. Not all players would agree, and discussion about that would be best for a different thread (if we even want to devote time to that).

PvK

NAV

February 6th, 2003, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by geoschmo:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by NAV:
There are over 7500000 people that may have a copy of early Versions of Proportions.http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif This is quite obviously a mistype. Not sure what number you were trying to put here but I feel pretty safe in saying it's going to be a number less than the total number of people that have bought SE4 and SE4 Gold, not more. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Geoschmo<hr /></blockquote>Opps, your right... But it is still thousands.
----------------------------------------------
"Space Empires IV is widely considered the grandest Space Empire Building 4X games of all time, the winner of numerous awards and accolades from the Online and print media, with almost $750,000 in sales. Now take your SE IV experience to a whole new level with Space Empires IV Gold! Simply put this is a must have for any fan of 4X games and includes the following new additions to the all-star original"

From Shrapnelgames Press Release...

Dralasite

February 6th, 2003, 10:13 PM

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif if SEIV only cost 10 cents...quite a deal, but Shrapnel might not be doing as well

I didn't realize P&N had AI support, I need to check it out!

Fyron

February 6th, 2003, 10:15 PM

I did not say that Proportions was a bad mod, only that it does not really make the game more realistic. The only way to do that would be to eliminate the ability to travel to other star systems in less than 4-6 centuries, and the ability to make colonies out of your race's home system, period. In reality, space empires are impossible. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I'm with PvK, this should probably not clutter up this thread. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I didn't realize P&N had AI support, I need to check it out! Almost all "finished" mods out there have AI support.

[ February 06, 2003, 20:16: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Rollo

February 7th, 2003, 01:24 AM

I will no use this thread to plug the Devnull Mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

PvK

February 7th, 2003, 01:49 AM

Originally posted by PvK:
Yes I posted a link to 2.5.3 beta on that thread on Monday. I am going to try to post a new release Version today though which should be better and be good to upgrade existing games (addresses Fryon's complaints about upgrading 2.4.2->2.5).
...I just removed the beta link, and posted the new Versions (2.5.2 and 2.5.3).

Fryon, I know some people assess the realism of a game by its most unrealistic element, but the existance of warp points seems like an odd item to focus on, since it's a sci-fi "what if" inherent in the scenario. You can always start a game with no warp points, and/or disable warp manipulation tech in the game startup... Not that that's on-topic in this thread. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

PvK

Fyron

February 7th, 2003, 01:53 AM

It's not just the existence of warp points, it is the basic premis of building an empire in space. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

That has nothing to do with how Proportions is not really any more realistic than the normal game. Some things may appear more realistic with how you have changed them, but they are still not realistic. Populations do not just grow at a constant rate and then stop at some arbitrary point. Even when Proportions slows down the rate of growth, there is still the same unrealistic model of population growth as in the normal game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

PvK

February 7th, 2003, 02:22 AM

Well measurements of realism are subjective in many ways. To my own standards, Proportions is much more realistic. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif For the specific example of population growth, I think of population as a semi-abstract mechanic, and in practice, planets in Proportions are almost never "full" - when they are, it abstractly represents the limit of an environment to support more (abstract) useful civilian elements.

Not that this is on-topic. Maybe an admin could move these Posts to another thread, since they've sidetracked this one.

PvK

Fyron

February 7th, 2003, 05:21 AM

No, they don't move Posts to other threads when they get side-tracked here on Shrapnel. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Aloofi

February 7th, 2003, 10:38 PM

I'm with PvK here. Proportions is FAR more realistic than the unmodded game.
Try transporting a 100 million people in cargo containers for several months and you'll see what you have in there at the end of the trip..... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Fyron

February 7th, 2003, 10:42 PM

No, it is just as unrealistic as the unmodded game. A few items like that might make a bit more sense, but you still couldn't transport 1 million people in a single ship for months on end with no problems. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Suicide Junkie

February 7th, 2003, 10:53 PM

Fyron, how in the world can you admit that the mod makes improvements, while still claiming that the mod is just as unrealistic!?!

Fyron

February 7th, 2003, 11:03 PM

It doesn't necessarily make improvements, it makes changes. The changes are not necessarily any more or less realistic.

Aloofi

February 7th, 2003, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
No, it is just as unrealistic as the unmodded game. A few items like that might make a bit more sense, but you still couldn't transport 1 million people in a single ship for months on end with no problems. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Oh come on, you just want to discuss for the sake of it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Transporting 1m instead of a 100m its more realistic, isn't it? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Fyron

February 7th, 2003, 11:18 PM

Transporting people between systems isn't realistic to begin with. So, the specific amount doesn't matter too much.

But taking the unrealistic WPs into account, transporting 1 mil is only more realistic than 100 mil if you assume that there is not much advanced (if any) technology. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Dralasite

February 7th, 2003, 11:48 PM

Fyron,

F Te antKe had asked if FQM was "AI friendly", I didn't see an answer. I'm guessing Standard probably is, but maybe not Deluxe? Can you comment on that?

F Te antKe

February 7th, 2003, 11:56 PM

Dralasite
Thanks, he answered in the thread on FQM.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
The answer is both are good if you use the "Paradise" Quads.

[ February 07, 2003, 21:57: Message edited by: F Te antKe ]

Dralasite

February 8th, 2003, 12:23 AM

Ok, thanks for the info!

Fyron

February 8th, 2003, 07:51 AM

Both are AI-friendly with nearly any quadrant type. Ancient and Chaotic quadrants would be bad for AIs, but most others should be fine. The Paradise is just better for them than normal quadrants. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

oleg

February 8th, 2003, 12:17 PM

Transporting population is not the major improvemnt. It is the population growth rate and the time it takes to develop a new world. In unmoded SE it takes just one year to convert a new baren world into technological base surpusing the homeworld. In proportion, homeworld is always your major asset throghout the game. That's what i like most.

Fyron

February 8th, 2003, 12:52 PM

I never said transporting population was the only change.

Proportions creates too much micromanagement to get those colonies to any relevant level of production.

oleg

February 8th, 2003, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
I never said transporting population was the only change.

Proportions creates too much micromanagement to get those colonies to any relevant level of production.Not true. Just put a city into building queue and you don't have to worry about that planet for 20-40 turns http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Population transportation can be made semiautomatic by assigning "repeat orders". I actually found the level of micromanaging in Proportions much less than in unmodded SE: You don't have to manage a huge empire with 100+ planets. Just focus on dozen or so planets.

Fyron

February 8th, 2003, 01:19 PM

Yes, it is true, especially with all of those upgrade paths. There is a lot more micromanagement involved in getting 1 planet to a worthwhile level in Proportions than there is in unmodded SE4. You have to spend a lot of time and effort to get the population to a useable level, you have to wade through complex facility choices that don't really add much, technologies take way too long to research past the first couple levels, etc. And, managing only a few planets is no fun. SE4 is about empires, not city-states. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

All of these things may tolerable in singleplayer where you can just hit end turn 50 times, but they make the mod a pain in PBW. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ February 08, 2003, 11:21: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Nodachi

February 8th, 2003, 01:41 PM

Since this thread is already hopelssly off-topic. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

If I understood Fyron correctly he takes issue with the warp points in the game. These warp points are really wormholes that are able to shortcut the distance. Look at this (http://www.mkaku.org/black10.html) article. As a matter of fact check out the entire site, it's very informative.

Fyron

February 8th, 2003, 01:54 PM

Yeah, they are probably supposed to be worm holes. Too bad several worm holes don't exist in each system in reality. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Fyron

February 9th, 2003, 12:52 AM

Didn't know that. Oh well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Tenryu

February 9th, 2003, 01:04 AM

Originally posted by Mephisto:
By the way, the AI has an issue with the FQM: There are sectors without a storm that do damage. The Ai will try to clear these with storm destroyers but fail.Hmm, interesting, thanks Meph. More editing to fix that. LOL! That's about all I've done today.