What new abilities would you like to see?

[dogscoff]

Most "new features" threads soon degenerate into convoluted lists of peoples' pet ideas, so here's one with a more specific agenda:

What new abilities would you like to see patched into SE4 (or introdced in SE5) for modders to tinker with? I'll kick off:

- Can warp: This ability would be required for a ship to warp, enabling modders to deny warp travel to certain hulls or tech levels by witholding the ability.

-Inflicts X damage on own ship when destroyed: Would enable us to create "volatile" components. (ie one lucky hit to the warp core takes out half the ship)

- X percent chance of being damaged in ground combat: This ability could be given to units and facilities, allowing us to control their chances of surviving ground combat.

- modify ground combat defence by X percent for rock races.
- modify ground combat defence by X percent for ice races.
- modify ground combat defence by X percent for gas races.

The above 3 could be given to planets to give native combatants an advantage. Equally, all three could be given to a single facility to fortify a planet against invasion.

Come on then ppl, let's have your ideas...

[DirectorTsaarx]

I'd add </font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Can tow/carry/etc. other ships/bases </font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Can tow/carry/etc. other ships/bases through a warp point (assuming the "can warp" ability dogscoff mentioned is added) </font><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The ability should have options for being either hull-based or component-based; and should provide a settable limit on number of ships/bases (and/or amount of kT). Or maybe the kT should cause movement penalties (i.e., each 100 kT towed reduces movement by one); this Last bit may require the ability to have "extra" engines - that is, max movement limited to some number, but extra engines can be added that allow the towing ship to compensate for tonnage being towed.

[Andrés]

At least fix the "Planet - Change Ground Defense" ability that does not work.
Splitting it for rock/ice/gas makes sense but that does not only involve combat.
How can my rock planet native poulation live on a gas giant with no solid ground under their feet? wouldn't all those floating platforms for them count as domes? and how is it that no dome is needed in an ice planet that would freeze them to death in seconds?

Components that can generate Research and Intel points

Split the "component can only be repaired by SY" as a separate ability from the "Emergency Resupply" and "Emergency Energy".

A controlled way of the "Ship - Moved" event type would be the best way to simulate starwars-like hyperspace jumps.

I was thinking that the "can warp" and "can be stored as cargo" could be fields on every vehiclesize instead of abilities.

A damage type that deplets supplies from the target.
The ability to define weapon damage types!!

Increase max number of standard movements allowed from 255 to 65k.

[Desdinova]

i like the idea of adding the ability of can warp to a component. you can have a jumpdrive engine that is required to travel btwn systems. this way you could create system defense ships that are not warp capable and would have more room for other components.
i would like to see a feature added to the fleet screen where you can select ships and give them mass orders at once. sort of a calling all cars type command.
also on the construction que be able to multi add build ques other than ships or units. once the game gets going i tend to mass colonize and it is annoying to have to select a planet then add to its que. even using the fill que command it is tedious.

[couslee]

hmm, A racial ability, or advanced ability that gives terraforming to the race type, so no special facilities are needed to improve conditions or change the atmosphere. Could even be staged tech for each planet type provided you had the special ability. Maybe be attached to each of the colonization techs.
1= rock colonization
2= rock planet conditions
3= rock planet atmosphere
or even
3a= rock planet atmosphere hydrogen to home world type
3b= ect..

would be a whole new tech tree for that paticular special ability.

you could even give them a "genesis weapon" for that aspect of a special trait

[ February 12, 2003, 19:40: Message edited by: couslee ]

[Taz-in-Space]

1) The ability for a COMPONENT to store Minerals, etc.

This, along with a component that can generate research, would allow TRUE Nomad races!

2) Ability to have self -destructing weapons.

At present, even if you put component destroyed upon use, the combat engine still will NOT destroy the component!

[Baron Munchausen]

Things that modders can use?

***
1) Research and Intelligence points generation for components. This and resource storage makes true nomadic races possible. Just do it, MM!
***

2) Increase population storage. Why is there a facility cargo ability but not a facility population ability? It should be simple to add.

3) Restore the requirement for special population quarters to move population. (At least as an option.) It seems a bit silly to pack 'people' into empty cargo holds like packing crates. Don't they need heat and air, furniture, cooking facilities, etc?

4) Exploding component -- MM told someone or other he was going to implement the component that did extra damage when it was destroyed, but he hasn't done it yet. Someone remind him. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

5) Restore the Chlorine atmosphere type. It would enhance the 'atmosphere' of the game to have more variety! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif We can think of plenty of races to use this atmosphere type.

6) Restore the ability to colonize asteroids. This would be another good thing with the 'nomadic' races. You could have a space-living race that can't live on planets but requires asteroids.

In fact, change the way colonization works so that any colony on your 'non-native' planet type is always domed just like 'non-native' atmosphere colonies are domed. With no way to change planet types you'd have a reasonable penalty for the rather strange act of colonize gas giants with ground (rock) dwelling races, or vice-versa.

7) Ability to tow/move another ship or base with a tractor beam.

8) A 'units only' space yard type.

9) Warp gates (artificial warp points)

10) Yes, the 'requires ability' ability for warp points needs to be enabled so you can have a 'warp component' to eat up space in star ships and give an advantage to system ships.

11) And of course, all those nifty things listed in the config files but since forgotten... planetary cloak, planetary engines, all those nifty restrictions for ship designs, etc...

[ February 13, 2003, 17:39: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

[capnq]

A "System - Damage" ability. Like "Sector - Damage" but for the whole system.

[Nodachi]

Here's some of my ideas:

1) Not Mountable
2) Reflect Damage
3) User defined "dummy" abilities
4) Area Effect
5) Add a Range field to Boarding Attack
6) Move Planet
7) Disable Target (ion cannon style)
8) Teleportation - Sector
9) Teleportation - System
10) Secondary Damage (definible type and amount)

[AJC]

facilities abilities available for components.
Cloaking planets/stellar objects
Build more than one star in a system
Quadrant maps with warp lines that cross the map.

[ckotchey]

I'm not sure if there is any capability of this kind in the game or not, but if not, I'd like some sort of scanner or ability of some kind to scan and view the cargo and/or facilities on a planet. Maybe make that two different kinds of scans (cargo & facilities) with two different levels each: First level identifies number of facilities or amount of cargo. Level two identifies specific facilities and specific cargo. I would guess that any of this should be rather high-end tech.

[dogscoff]

You can scan ships for components and cargo using the long range scanner component. Planetary cargo and (I think) facilities can be examined uwsing intel. Alternately, send a recon drone into combat and get info that way...

[HEMAN]

Cool ideas like;

1) How about Old reports Tab FEATURE http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif ,example; the star in ? system will blow in 3 years. Ship__ had its orders change/insurected ship__/bomb has exploded on ship__.

2) Make Intel/Counter intel more sophisticated instead of just X no. of counter intel defeats X number of intel. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

3) Additional warp points types http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif . (ie Temporary would be good for simulating warp/hyper drives. Create warp point, go through and next turn it collapses).

4)Tab satilite feature http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif ; Satellites spread all around planet.
These ideas i think are needed , Whata guys think??.

[Jasonsty]

- Can warp: This ability would be required for a ship to warp, enabling modders to deny warp travel to certain hulls or tech levels by witholding the ability.

-Inflicts X damage on own ship when destroyed: Would enable us to create "volatile" components. (ie one lucky hit to the warp core takes out half the ship)

A controlled way of the "Ship - Moved" event type would be the best way to simulate starwars-like hyperspace jumps.

I was thinking that the "can warp" and "can be stored as cargo" could be fields on every vehiclesize instead of abilities.

A damage type that deplets supplies from the target.
The ability to define weapon damage types!!

GREAT Ideas would help me out big time with my mod.

About "can warp" and "can be stored as cargo", say you can't store other ships as storage. You could make it were you need at least one ship in a fleet with "can warp" to use warp points. Ideally for me have "can warp" as a ability and the first value as max number of ships it can bring along in a fleet.
-------------------------------------------------

3) Additional warp points types . (ie Temporary would be good for simulating warp/hyper drives. Create warp point, go through and next turn it collapses).

Also helpful Idea for my mod, but It wouldn't an AI be unable to work with this concept.

[klausD]

-area damage types (free for modding)
-warping without warp holes. certain number of galactic squares even if there is no system on the other side of the jump. Thus can stop in "empty" squares.
-"short" range fighter types without the ability to travel insystem, just in tactical combat (as it was in SeIII)
-multiple space yards on a planet
-ability to manually distribute supply points between ships
-abilty for facilities to be operated by population in order to have a 100% efficiency. If too few people are operating it only 50% efficiency or so is possible
-Satellite Groups can be setup before combat manually.

KlausD

[Graeme Dice]

I would like the ability to separate combat and strategic movement better than it currently is. Right now, you can make the ships much faster in combat, but there's no way to make them move quickly in strategic, but not in combat without using emergency propulsion. That doesn't work well at all in fleets.

[Andrés]

Right allow negative values in the combat bonus ability or add a strat bouns one.

[ZeroAdunn]

I would like to see the ability:

"Can warp" as well.

However, I would like to see it as an ability for both hulls and components. Also, I would like it to have a value, corresponding to a value tagged to warppoints. So you would have to have a level equall to or greater then a warp points to be able to warp through it.

[orev_saara]

It would be very nice to see passive and active cloaking behave like active and passive.

It would also be nice if one component on one ship could provide sensor info to an entire fleet. Sort of an ELINT thingy.

Many abilities in the game would benefit from the scaled approach like cloaking. Scanning. Colonizing. Shielding. Armor. All of those specialty damage types. Allegiance Subverter vs some type of countermeasure? Lots of possibilities here.

Some way of mandating multiple master computers for larger ships or something similar would be nice. Even if it is all computer run, it doesn't make sense to me that you need the same size computer to run an escort that you need for a dreadnaught.

Please, please implement the 'can drop troops' ability!! I want to have drop pods!!!

And do something with the self-destruct model, like give it a failure rate or make it component specific or something!

[Aloofi]

-I would like to get rid of all the warp points. Hyperspace Jumps should be possible only to the nearest system (to the fringes of the system), so you'll still need to make several jumps to reach an enemy homeworld.
-Hyperspacing should be both component and hull based.
-Fighters should only travel as far as to a location where they can be retrieved. Not fighter should be in flight at the end of a turn. And no Hyperjumping, of course.
-Every time a ship or fleet hyperjump there should be a small hyperjump flash and sound, so it doesn't feel like now, when the warp points are barely a door to the next room.
-The ability to limit cloaking to a maximum size. If cloacking could be limited to small hulls the life of such hulls will not only be enlarged, but we could simulate submarine warfare with cloakers capable of launching spies, virus and nuclear bombs on planets without being detected unless the right sensor was in the sector. A cloaked vessel in combat should be detected only when it fires its guns, and then for a brief moment. And the best anti cloacker defense should be another cloaker.
-The ability to retrieve fighters in combat to rearm those "fire rate 30" weapons.
-Fighters shouldn't have shields (too small to fit)
-Some sort of diference between bombers and fighters. Bombers should need escort from fighters.
-Underground facilities and bunkers, that can't be destroyed from orbital bombing.
-Stealth Spy satelites to check on planets. (Deployable by cloakers)
-Exploration: Systems shouldn't be explored by just jumping to it. Visiting a system should only reveal the number of planets, size and location, but not resorce value or ruins. To explore a planet a vessel should visit the planet, and have a planet scanner component or explorer party on board.
-Ruins: should only be a random event happening some time after a colony have been stablished. (to simulate buried ruins that need to be excavated after found by chance by farmers or something)
-Diplomacy: First contact shouldn't mean combat! The lack of treaty shouldn't mean war. To attack a vessel there should be first an state of war, and if not, attacking that vessel would be a declaration of war.
-Trade: we should be able to see what the AI or other players have. And to know how much they want.

Oh my, i forgot that this thread its not for wishes....... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[dogscoff]

I would like to get rid of all the warp points. Hyperspace Jumps should be possible only to the nearest system (to the fringes of the system), so you'll still need to make several jumps to reach an enemy homeworld.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't think it would be a good idea to do away with warp points cmopletely, since they provide interesting tactical situations and they have been at the core of SE for a long time.

However, the option to mod them out in favour of other ftl types or to combine various ftl methods all in the same game would be a good thing.

[Graeme Dice]

Most of these do not actually require new abilities, and can be easily modded with what we currently have available.


-Hyperspacing should be both component and hull based.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A hull can already have just about any ability that a component can have.


-Every time a ship or fleet hyperjump there should be a small hyperjump flash and sound, so it doesn't feel like now, when the warp points are barely a door to the next room.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Special graphics and sounds for routine events are kind of pointless.

-The ability to limit cloaking to a maximum size.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">See the pirates and nomads mod, where all ships have gravitic cloaking based on ship size. Beyond that, there's no reason why cloaking should be limited to small ships, as all ships are small when compared to space.

-Fighters shouldn't have shields (too small to fit)
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Then mod them to not have shields. Of course, if you do so, then you then you are making them pretty much useless without some major changes to their stats and abilities.

-Some sort of diference between bombers and fighters. Bombers should need escort from fighters.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is another modding problem, and not a required ability. It's also a simple one. Make larger weapons that can only fit on larger fighters, then make these fighters easier to hit, and with lower to-hit than other fighters. You now have bombers that need escort.

-Underground facilities and bunkers, that can't be destroyed from orbital bombing.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">For this, all you need to do to create something close is raise the amount of damage needed to kill a unit of population, as facility damage is directly related to population damage.

-Stealth Spy satelites to check on planets. (Deployable by cloakers)<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Put a cloaking device on a satellitte, and you have exactly this.


-Exploration: Systems shouldn't be explored by just jumping to it. Visiting a system should only reveal the number of planets, size and location, but not resorce value or ruins. To explore a planet a vessel should visit the planet, and have a planet scanner component or explorer party on board.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is kind of a pointless and silly requirement. Any group that can send a ship across a solar system in a month can perform spectroscopy on a planet to see what it's made of. Just think of ruins as what Earth would look like with all the cities abandoned.

-Trade: we should be able to see what the AI or other players have. And to know how much they want.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is a terrible idea. Allowing others to see what I've researched or built is the same thing as free intelligence.


Oh my, i forgot that this thread its not for wishes....... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sure it's for wishes, but you should really check out what the game is capable of already supporting before asking for new abilities that already exist.

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by dogscoff:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't think it would be a good idea to do away with warp points cmopletely, since they provide interesting tactical situations
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's the whole point. Eliminating all those warp point defenses.

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
See the pirates and nomads mod, where all ships have gravitic cloaking based on ship size. Beyond that, there's no reason why cloaking should be limited to small ships, as all ships are small when compared to space.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The good thing about cloaking its that it have the potential to make small ships valuables to the very end. When you make large ships capable of cloaking you throw that away.
I just don't like the "bigger it's better" aproach.
Also, big hulls should be desproportionaly expensier than small hulls.
Check out what happened to Battleships after WW2, when they became nothing more than ultra expensive missile launching platforms.
And of course history doesn't repeat itself, and what happened after WW2 doesn't need to happen again.
But its a good balancing twist.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Aloofim:
The good thing about cloaking its that it have the potential to make small ships valuables to the very end. When you make large ships capable of cloaking you throw that away.
I just don't like the "bigger it's better" aproach.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The thing about it is that it's almost universally true that a bigger ship will be better at the same tech level, simply because you can fit more onboard.


Also, big hulls should be desproportionaly expensier than small hulls.
Check out what happened to Battleships after WW2, when they became nothing more than ultra expensive missile launching platforms.
And of course history doesn't repeat itself, and what happened after WW2 doesn't need to happen again.
But its a good balancing twist.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The Nimitz is considerably larger than any of the Battleships floated in WWII. It displaces 97,000 tons, while the Missouri displaces 45,000 tons. Modern ships are nearly twice as large as WWII ships.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Aloofim:
That's the whole point. Eliminating all those warp point defenses.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Warp point defenses are a _good_ thing, and are hardly overpowered as they currently stand. You absolutely need to have some way to defend your territory, and individual planet defense is not possible due to the speeds with which ships have to be able to move to make the game finishable in less than six months.

[Andrés]

SE4 ships are ridiculously tiny when compared with most sci-fi ships.
I feel that there's not enough incentive to build really large ships.

Actually larger ships should REDUCE cost.
Large crentralized systems and reduction of redundant parts allows for a significant reduction of construction and operating cost.
The only cost advantage of small ships is that you can build them one by one, while you cannot build 1/4 large ship.

On the other hand you're right about components such as cloaking devices, you should need a larger more powerful one to achive the same cloaking level in a larger ship.

[orev_saara]

Actually, this is not hard to mod! I've been using this solution to fix the way the same size master computer runs a frigate and a starbase, here's how it works:

1 You make the cloaking device as big as you want for the big ships with appropriate supply usage, etc.

2 You create a series of mounts that make cloaking devices cheaper and smaller and use less supply, but give them all the appropriate maximum size field.

EDIT: Example
Cloaking device costs 5000 minerals, 3000 Rads, uses 100 supply, takes 100kT. Small ship cloak mount reduces cost to 30%, reduces kT space to 30%, reduces kT structure to 30%, reduces supply usage to 30%, has maximum vehicle size of 350kT.

3 The AI uses the lowest applicable mount in the file, so they should go from largest to smallest in this situation.

VOILA!

Hardly ideal, takes a bit of work, but it does do what you're looking for.

[ February 18, 2003, 17:51: Message edited by: orev_saara ]

[Andrés]

Yes I know.
The same concept of mounted engines.
Mounts can have max and min set so only one scaling is available for each size, no matter the order.

IMHO MC should be smaller anyway, it doesn't sound realistic that even if you need to control a whole starbase your computer will be larger than a house.

[ February 18, 2003, 18:49: Message edited by: Andr&eacutes Lescano ]

[Phoenix-D]

"IMHO MC should be smaller anyway, it doesn't sound realistic that even if you need to control a whole starbase your computer will be larger than a house."

It doesn't just have to control the ship; it has to -think- as well. Compared to the sizes of the other components, it's quite reasonable.

Phoenix-D

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
[QUOTE]Warp point defenses are a _good_ thing, and are hardly overpowered as they currently stand. You absolutely need to have some way to defend your territory, and individual planet defense is not possible due to the speeds with which ships have to be able to move to make the game finishable in less than six months.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I always play without defending any warp point, and its far more realistic, cause I have to protect every planet independently and always have a colonial fleet for system defense and counter-strokes. Protecting the warp points is WAY too EASY. And way too cheap.

So yeah, its a problem of taste. Or a diferent concept of realism.

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by orev_saara:
Actually, this is not hard to mod! I've been using this solution to fix the way the same size master computer runs a frigate and a starbase, here's how it works:

1 You make the cloaking device as big as you want for the big ships with appropriate supply usage, etc.

2 You create a series of mounts that make cloaking devices cheaper and smaller and use less supply, but give them all the appropriate maximum size field.

.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's a great idea. Is it possible to limit the size to a maximum, like say, Cloaking can only be used in ships below 300 kts?

[orev_saara]

Yes. You'd have to make the basic cloaking device take up about 5000kT, or something equally unworkable, then put in a mount that shrinks it down to what you want that cannot be used on anything bigger than 300kT

[Andrés]

IMHO it does not make sense to make large ships unable to cloak but that's you can mod whatever you like.
Using the mount method you can make large ships have to spend a similar % of it's tonnage in the cloaking device.

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by orev_saara:
Yes. You'd have to make the basic cloaking device take up about 5000kT, or something equally unworkable, then put in a mount that shrinks it down to what you want that cannot be used on anything bigger than 300kT<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks man, that's a great idea. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Will the AI use it?
Do I have to tinker with AI files to make them use it?
I've never touched an AI file. I'm a newbie, you know. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
The thing about it is that it's almost universally true that a bigger ship will be better at the same tech level, simply because you can fit more onboard.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, better, and unproportionaly expensier to build and maintain.


The Nimitz is considerably larger than any of the Battleships floated in WWII. It displaces 97,000 tons, while the Missouri displaces 45,000 tons. Modern ships are nearly twice as large as WWII ships.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You aren't comparing Carriers to Battleships, aren't you?.
No Battleship have been built after WW2. The Last american Battleships comisioned during WW2 were scrapped and the hulls used for Carriers. The largest warship in any fleet today its a Cruiser size.
The Battleship saw battle for the Last time in the Gulf War, and it was obvious that they have just become an ultra expensive platform to launch missiles, something that an AEGYS Cruiser do far better and cheaper.
Now Carriers, are a completely diferent ballgame. They do something nobody else can do, and they are pound by pound the expensiest floating structure ever build. The cost of one single Carrier is higher than the estimated price that NASA have for a permanent scientific colony on planet Mars. The maintainace of carriers is so high that the UK had to settle for the 3 mini Carriers they keep today.
That's why I believe that in SE4 big hulls have to be desproportionaly expensier to build and maintain, thus giving a chance to small ships to remain effective.

[Erax]

Originally posted by Aloofi:
[QUOTE]Now Carriers, are a completely diferent ballgame. They do something nobody else can do, and they are pound by pound the expensiest floating structure ever build. [snip]
That's why I believe that in SE4 big hulls have to be desproportionaly expensier to build and maintain, thus giving a chance to small ships to remain effective.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You don't need a new ability for that, it can be modded with current capabilities. I agree that SEIV goes completely overboard with the 'bigger is better' way of thinking; QNP mods go a long way towards correcting this.

The 'can warp' ability for components would be excellent, creating many new situations (ships could get trapped in their systems by combat, sabotage or events).

Supply-depleting weapons would also be great, they would act like Star Wars ion cannons.

[JLS]

Originally posted by dogscoff:
Most "new features" threads soon degenerate into convoluted lists of peoples' pet ideas, so here's one with a more specific agenda:

What new abilities would you like to see patched into SE4 (or introdced in SE5) for modders to tinker with? I'll kick off:

- Can warp: This ability would be required for a ship to warp, enabling modders to deny warp travel to certain hulls or tech levels by witholding the ability.

-Inflicts X damage on own ship when destroyed: Would enable us to create "volatile" components. (ie one lucky hit to the warp core takes out half the ship)

- X percent chance of being damaged in ground combat: This ability could be given to units and facilities, allowing us to control their chances of surviving ground combat.

- modify ground combat defence by X percent for rock races.
- modify ground combat defence by X percent for ice races.
- modify ground combat defence by X percent for gas races.

The above 3 could be given to planets to give native combatants an advantage. Equally, all three could be given to a single facility to fortify a planet against invasion.

Come on then ppl, let's have your ideas...<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">-Can warp:
Can be modeled now (per Vehicle hull) in se4, but once opened it allows all size hulls to pass.
Some AI issues here as well.
~~~
-Inflicts X damage on own ship when destroyed: This is (some what) already done with structure size.
~~~
- modify ground combat defense.
Can be modeled in se4.

~
- X percent chance of being damaged in ground combat:
Agreed this is a must. I have not figured away to do this in se4 (YET)
--------------------------
EDIT:
Opps Noticed {Graeme Dice} already pointed most out in latter post.

[ May 03, 2003, 15:18: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by Aloofim:
-I would like to get rid of all the warp points. Hyperspace Jumps should be possible only to the nearest system (to the fringes of the system), so you'll still need to make several jumps to reach an enemy homeworld.
-Hyperspacing should be both component and hull based.
-Fighters should only travel as far as to a location where they can be retrieved. Not fighter should be in flight at the end of a turn. And no Hyperjumping, of course.
-Every time a ship or fleet hyperjump there should be a small hyperjump flash and sound, so it doesn't feel like now, when the warp points are barely a door to the next room.
-The ability to limit cloaking to a maximum size. If cloacking could be limited to small hulls the life of such hulls will not only be enlarged, but we could simulate submarine warfare with cloakers capable of launching spies, virus and nuclear bombs on planets without being detected unless the right sensor was in the sector. A cloaked vessel in combat should be detected only when it fires its guns, and then for a brief moment. And the best anti cloacker defense should be another cloaker.
-The ability to retrieve fighters in combat to rearm those "fire rate 30" weapons.
-Fighters shouldn't have shields (too small to fit)
-Some sort of diference between bombers and fighters. Bombers should need escort from fighters.
-Underground facilities and bunkers, that can't be destroyed from orbital bombing.
-Stealth Spy satelites to check on planets. (Deployable by cloakers)
-Exploration: Systems shouldn't be explored by just jumping to it. Visiting a system should only reveal the number of planets, size and location, but not resorce value or ruins. To explore a planet a vessel should visit the planet, and have a planet scanner component or explorer party on board.
-Ruins: should only be a random event happening some time after a colony have been stablished. (to simulate buried ruins that need to be excavated after found by chance by farmers or something)
-Diplomacy: First contact shouldn't mean combat! The lack of treaty shouldn't mean war. To attack a vessel there should be first an state of war, and if not, attacking that vessel would be a declaration of war.
-Trade: we should be able to see what the AI or other players have. And to know how much they want.

Oh my, i forgot that this thread its not for wishes....... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed

[JLS]

Originally posted by Aloofim:
The good thing about cloaking its that it have the potential to make small ships valuables to the very end. When you make large ships capable of cloaking you throw that away.
I just don't like the "bigger it's better" aproach.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
The thing about it is that it's almost universally true that a bigger ship will be better at the same tech level, simply because you can fit more onboard.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">PvK has done wonders with the scale of Components with Proportions. The way he handled Cloaking for larger ship do appear realistic. With in the confines of se4.

Cloaked ships should always get first to shoot, in se5.

[ May 03, 2003, 15:13: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by Aloofy:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by orev_saara:
Yes. You'd have to make the basic cloaking device take up about 5000kT, or something equally unworkable, then put in a mount that shrinks it down to what you want that cannot be used on anything bigger than 300kT<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks man, that's a great idea. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Will the AI use it?
Do I have to tinker with AI files to make them use it?
I've never touched an AI file. I'm a newbie, you know. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">AI should be fine with this as long as you add cloaking to the Race/ships you want them to cloak.

[Karibu]

I think this has been noticed before, but I have not seen it said anywhere:

When you spy enemy/capture ship, you should have the knowledge of enemy's tech level (at least of those parts you have found out) so that when you propose trade with him, in your trading list of technology are NOT those technologies you already know enemy possess.

For example: I capture enemyship and see "Hey he has Level 3 PD, Emergency supply 2 and ion engines level 2". Then I make peace with him and propose trading. There should be removed those technologies.

Tech trading also needs correction. When I decide to trade with some player, I should be able to give him those techs I want, not the latest tech of that one branch he does not have.

For example: We agree that I trade him Level 3 engines and he gives me level 3 DUC. Naturally I assume that he has Level 2 engines and he assumes that I have level 2 DUC. And I know he has level 5 DUC and he knows I have level 6 engines. Now he has lied to me and he has level 4 engines already and he knows when we trade, he will get the "next engine level" which is level 5. I have been honest and I get level 3 DUC. That was not what I intended to trade. This is the reason I want in the tech trade that I can define explicitly that I give another player level 3 engines and not just "next engine level" to what he possess. This would not be very hard to implement. It would also be more clear when trading.

Same thing with starcharts. The trading list should not include those system maps I know enemy possess. How to define this? Simple: Remove those maps from the list, when enemy ship and my ship has been in the same system so, that I have seen the enemy ship. Naturally I know then that enemy knows this system. Also remove those system charts which include enemy colonies I know of. Also remove those charts when I have seen enemy ship in that system through partnership of another race. There are also few other definitions to this but you know what I mean (I hope so).

[Elowan]

Don't know if this has been mentioned yet but I think that a Space Yard should be able to re-supply as well. It isn't logical that it can't.

[JLS]

Originally posted by Elowan:
Don't know if this has been mentioned yet but I think that a Space Yard should be able to re-supply as well. It isn't logical that it can't.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">YES, Agreed.

AI Campaign uses this, it is very helpfull for the AI all around and when it upgrades its engines, now we and the AI have fuel available to fill up there new retrofit engines.

Otherwise the AI crawls to the nearest depot after a refit http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

[ May 03, 2003, 16:10: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Q]

More abilities for systems:
1.) Maximum speed: no ship can go faster than x sectors per turn.
2.) No stellar manipulation possible (like the effect of a system gravitational shield): no warp points open/close, no star destruction.
3.) Positive/negative influence on happiness and reproduction for all colonies in the system.
4.) Selective non-function of certain weapon types (e.g. missiles, torpedos, beams) in the system.
5.) No effect of all training/racial combat bonus for ships in the system.

[JLS]

Q,
Agreed now those would open great modding opportunities.

[Cyrien]

I wouldn't recomend a specific new ability. But rather a new way of defining abilites. A moddable way.

For instance instead of recomedning a new atmosphere type throw in a text file that allows the user to define atmosphere types. Have settings such as Can it be used by a Race as start Atmosphere := True or False
Can be X Planet Type :=
Where X planet type is defined in another file with default being Gas, Rock, Ice.

Such a system would have less hardcoded and give a great deal more potential for modding. Also it is only an extension of the existing system.

Define new abilities
Ability Name := Damges X only
Does damage to := ALL or a component family number or Shields only.

Instead of defining specifically each thing that can or cannot be damaged in hard code format. Hard code general things and put specific in moddable files.

This can also be better from a programing stand point. Instead of having to code in so many different specific abilities that different people want, code in general areas and allow each user to make what they want.

[ May 03, 2003, 16:56: Message edited by: Cyrien ]

[Cyrien]

To clarify a little more. I would recommend very general abilities.
Example:
Can colonize
Can cloak
Can damage
Can block damage (armor)
Can block damage (shield)
Can regenerate

with specifics in each one not being hardcoded but instead being moddable in specific txt files.

[JLS]

Does any one know a work around for this?

I would like to add small amounts of Space Yard Rates to Towns, Cities thru Culture Center, in that way it may represent the Industrial might of a well infurstrtured planet.

I can do this on the Home World because the Game will load a Space Yard Facility and all the starting Cultures Centers even having SY abilities. They are cumulative and all will work fine http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

But after the game starts, se4 will not let me have any two facilities with SY abilities to be built on the same planet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Is there a work around; so we may have two or more Facilities with Space Yard Ability be Built on a planet?

[ May 04, 2003, 15:40: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Me Loonn]

Originally posted by Aloofim:

-The ability to limit cloaking to a maximum size. If cloacking could be limited to small hulls the life of such hulls will not only be enlarged, but we could simulate submarine warfare with cloakers capable of launching spies, virus and nuclear bombs on planets without being detected unless the right sensor was in the sector. A cloaked vessel in combat should be detected only when it fires its guns, and then for a brief moment. And the best anti cloacker defense should be another cloaker.
-Exploration: Systems shouldn't be explored by just jumping to it. Visiting a system should only reveal the number of planets, size and location, but not resorce value or ruins. To explore a planet a vessel should visit the planet, and have a planet scanner component or explorer party on board.
-Ruins: should only be a random event happening some time after a colony have been stablished. (to simulate buried ruins that need to be excavated after found by chance by farmers or something)
-Diplomacy: First contact shouldn't mean combat! The lack of treaty shouldn't mean war. To attack a vessel there should be first an state of war, and if not, attacking that vessel would be a declaration of war.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Heh, those were about same what i was gonna post here, but ahwell ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Anyway, about them:
- Cloaking, especial hull should be added, somekind of "Space Submarine" ship that gets +1 level to cloaking. With lvl 1 cloaking devise it gets lvl 3 cloaking and not just normal 2. Or another way; larger hulls get -1, or even -2 penalty to cloakin.

This way you cant detect "sub" with lvl 3 cloaking device, unless its 3 sectors or less away from lvl 3 scanner.

Example:
You got lvl 1 scanner (u scan at lvl 2) and enemy has lvl 3 cloaking devise (cloacks at lvl 4).

With formula like this:
"base + scan lvl - cloak lvl = scan distance"
you get :
3 + 2 - 4 = 1,
you can spot enemy from 1 sector away.

But if you got lvl 2 scanner :
3 + 3 - 4 = 2,
you can spot enemy from 2 sectors away.

And with lvl 3 scanner :
3 + 4 - 4 = 3,
you can spot enemy from 3 sectors away;

This should also apply to exploration, only few sectors should be "mapped"; better the sensors, farther it could see. Only huge things such as black hole systems, nebulae etc. could be explored just by entering that system.

[ May 04, 2003, 16:20: Message edited by: Me Loonn ]

[HEMAN]

What new abilities would you like to see?
1)INTELL > Add % to field on the (active intell project) menu.
2)INTELL > Wouldnt it be a good idea to give them flat percentage of success in case of counterintel?.
3)INTELL > Expand Ais Intell reponses trade solutions/ treaty.

4)INTELL > I'd like to see PPP give some sort of warning as the political movement builds towards declaring independence. Surely you would notice the political movement even if there is a 'hidden hand' guiding it that you cannot see?.

5) Plague on planet/Planet will explode ,I would like a tab for all planets with this to identify. Because after 1 turn that message dose not reapear.
All these for se4gold. Whata guys think of these ideas?.

[kalthalior]

edit: This topic has gone quite a ways since I started to reply to Aloofi -- sorry for the delay.

Aloofi said:
No Battleship have been built after WW2. The Last american Battleships comisioned during WW2 were scrapped and the hulls used for Carriers. The largest warship in any fleet today its a Cruiser size.

Actually, no US WW II era BB was converted to a CV, but 2 WWI era BC were ( Lexington & Satatoga ) and served with distinction in the Pacific. Most BB were either scrapped or are floating museums today. There is an initiative to reactivate 1 or 2 Iowa class, primarily driven by the US Marine Corps' desire for a larger fire support platform for Naval landings. I would also note that 2 modernized BB fired over 1000 rounds of 16" shells in Gulf War 1 -- basically destroying 5 Iraqi army divisions in the process. The missile capability is an ADDED feature, not the primary rationale for the modernization of the 1980's.

More BB info (http://www.warships1.com/)

[ May 06, 2003, 17:37: Message edited by: kalthalior ]

[Loser]

I would like to see added the capacity for a component to require certain cargo to work, with the option of destroying that cargo.

"This is the Soul Render, a immensely powerful weapon that requires 30 million souls to power it. These are the newest additions to our empire, the Phong, 30 million of them."

[Dingocat85]

Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
9) Warp gates (artificial warp points)<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">...Can't you already make Warp Points with Stellar Manipulation? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Originally posted by Loser:
I would like to see added the capacity for a component to require certain cargo to work, with the option of destroying that cargo.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Originally posted by orev_saara:
Please, please implement the 'can drop troops' ability!! I want to have drop pods!!!<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How about a Missile Weapon - Small, Medium, and Large Drop pods? Require 50, 100, or 200 Troops to launch, have lousy range (so you have to orbit a planet to deploy them), very high damage resistance (so any punk with some PDCs can't shoot 'em down before they "land"), and are relatively small - so you could fire, say, 10 Large Drop Pods, if you wanted to deploy 2000 Troops.

[Dingocat85]

My ideas:
1) The option to setup Empires that start on a Sun, instead of a Gas, Rock, or Ice planet.

2) Instead of the "modified ground combat defense by X percent for rock/gas/ice races" as proposed by dogscoff, "modified ground combat offence by X percent" would provide more options. For example:
>>Rock troops get +25% bonus attacking Rock planets
>>Rock troops get -33% bonus attacking Gas planets
>>Ice troops get -95% bonus attacking Suns
>>Gas troops have +10% bonus attacking Rock planets
.....and so on. This would provide a whole nother element to ground combat - you might have to borrow some troops from your different-planet-type ally, if your current troops are extremely weak on the planet you plan to invade.

3) The ability to give components fleet-wide abilities.
Examples:
Provides unlimited supplies for fleet
Gives fleet combat bonus
Gives fleet defence bonus
Reduces fleet maintenance costs by 10%

4) Option to modify existing/add new culture modifiers - maybe it could work on a point system, as do Characteristics?

5) Ability to give a component a negative combat movement bonus

6) Ability to make a component that gives Satellites X movement per combat turn

7) 3 Different Engine types:
Intra-system Engines (can't warp)
Sub-Light Engines (can warp)
Light Engines (Available only to Propulsion Experts, ship can instantly travel to a system X light years away, although the coordinate arrived at in the system would be random, and the ship would likely get damaged)

8) Delayed-action weapons (after identifying target, weapon must 'Charge' for 2 turns before it can fire)

9) Modifier: Weapon cannot fire without sufficient supplies

10) Modifier: Platform/facility cannot function on population 0 planet (i.e. the option to keep Resupply Depots, Weapons Platforms, etc. from working when the population is at 0 - Just like the way you are restricted from building anything on a pop-0 planet)

11) Modifier: Ship cannot move for X turns after firing this weapon

12) Weapons can temporarily disable some components
Examples:
Weapon disables enemy engines for X turns
Weapon disables target's shield generators for X turns - after that, shields are re-activated
Weapon causes target's defense/offense modifiers to be set to 0% for X turns

[ May 07, 2003, 03:10: Message edited by: Dingocat85 ]

[dogscoff]

-Can warp:
Can be modeled now (per Vehicle hull) in se4, but once opened it allows all size hulls to pass.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, you misunderstand. Perhaps a better name for it would be a "can use warp points" ability for ships, units and components.

[Xaren Hypr]

I know that it's probably been proposed many times, but I'd like the ability to mod new abilities into the game, or at least be able to use the existing ones however the modder chooses...like giving a component Solar Resource Generation or Intelligence Point Generation, or making a facility that Cloaks, etc...

Just a thought...

[oleg]

Originally posted by Dingocat85:
6) Ability to make a component that gives Satellites X movement per combat turn

[/QB]<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am not sure, but I think it is posiible to make a component like fighter' afterburner for satellites. I have a fleeting recallection somebody made this for some mod some time ago. Or am i dreaming ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

9) Modifier: Weapon cannot fire without sufficient supplies<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This already happens for all weapons.
When you are totally out of supply, you can only fire weapons that use zero supply.

[Dingocat85]

Originally posted by oleg:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Dingocat85:
6) Ability to make a component that gives Satellites X movement per combat turn

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am not sure, but I think it is posiible to make a component like fighter' afterburner for satellites. I have a fleeting recallection somebody made this for some mod some time ago. Or am i dreaming ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Somebody did, in the Devnull Mod...but in the mod, it says 'this component does not work yet. Please complain to MM' http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Xaren Hypr]

I was thinking of an interesting variation to the ancient ruins that I wouldn't mind seeing...

Derelicts (Space hulks,abandoned ships/stations, odd techie bits of space debris, etc...).

They would be seeded like Ancient Ruins, but would be in open space instead of on a plante's surface. You would probably have to have a particular tech to salvage/detect them, but if you salvage them you would get either a unique/regular tech advance (only working device on board the debris, or something), or you would be able to get another ship or station (but with a tech or two that you wouldn't have) with the option to fleet/use it, or analyze it for the unique/new technology.

It would put an (IMO) interesting spin on the whole "colonize planet with Ancient Ruins, get tech" situation.

Just an idea.....but one that I particularly like... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ May 12, 2003, 10:07: Message edited by: Xaren Hypr ]