AI DEATH MATCH 2 [Archive] - Page 2

Master Belisarius

April 1st, 2003, 12:41 AM

Originally posted by Rexxx:
Yeah, they destroyed the Gron homeworlds. The only Gron system which had no system gravitational shield.
However, at this point (ca. turn 430) the game was already decided. The Orks had twice as many ships as the Gron (turn 255: 329 vs. 204, turn 355: 389 vs. 209). Very slowly that superior strength changed the course of the game. I guess the talisman protected the Gron from being buried much faster. (They still had a higher score for lots of turns but only because of resources/research etc.). However, at a certain point not even the talisman could help. The riots began (some colonies were lost but mainly the appearance of more and more Ork ships caused them). And riots equal being doomed...

A very interesting game affirming two former observations. My AIs don't use the abundance of resources provided by the bonus, at least not to the same degree as other AIs do. And secondly troops are crucial to prevent riots, which especially is true for the contest but for the "normal" game as well. I guess I can't help designing troops for my peaceful AIs... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Agree about the destruction of the Gron homeworld was later in the game, but also they used the Warp Openers to attack this system, and many turns before destroy the system, first they killed some Gron homeworlds with fleets.
Also, the Orks used many times the Planet Destroyers.
Agree 100%, about your point about the Troops. They a must be, and more on this kind of maps, where many planets are placed in the same system.

Master Belisarius

April 1st, 2003, 02:24 AM

Fazrah vs Aquilaeian.

The Aquilaeian defeated the Fazrah before the turn 260. Although the usual problems that my AIs had with intel (specially with this map and settings), they managed to reach the victory.

Here the link: Fazrah_vs_Aquilaeian_C3TB1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1049151249.zip)

Aquilaeian vs Fazrah.

The Fazrah took revenge and defeated the Aquilaeian at the turn 320.

Here the link: Aquilaeian_vs_Fazrah_C3TB2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1049152314.zip)

Because the Aquilaeian won in less turns, then, got the first place.

Master Belisarius

April 1st, 2003, 04:06 AM

Toron vs Narn.

After another boring game (military alliance between both races), the Narn won by points at the turn 500.
Narn 8.8M and Toron 4.1M

Here the link: Toron_vs_Narn_C6TB1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1049162296.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 2nd, 2003, 01:15 AM

Narn vs Toron.

This time, the Toron won by points, at the turn 500.
Toron 6.9M
Narn 4.6M

Here the link: Narn_vs_Toron_C6TB2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1049238653.zip)

Total points after the Tie-Break:

Narn = 8.8 + 4.6 = 13.4M
Toron = 4.1 + 6.9 = 11M

Then, the first place was for the Narn Regime.

Standings in the group C6

Narn Regime 4 Points
Toron 4 Points
Piunond 0 Point

Master Belisarius

April 2nd, 2003, 01:29 AM

Final Standings in the Round 3.

GROUP C1 Points
Space Vikings 5
Khrel 3
Namovans 0

GROUP C2 Points
Pyrochette 4
EEE 2
Sallega 0

GROUP C3 Points
Aquilaeian 4 (Won in less turns the TB)
Fazrah 4
Rage 0

GROUP C4 Points
United Flora 4
Cue Cappa 2
Earth Alliance 0

GROUP C5 Points
Tessellate 4
Orks 2
Gron 0

GROUP C6 Points
Narn Regime 4 (Had more points the Tie-Break)
Toron 4
Piundon 0

Then, the Groups for the Round Fourth are:

GROUP D1
Space Vikings
Orks
Toron

GROUP D2
Pyrochette
Khrel
CueCappa

GROUP D3
Aquilaeian
Tessellate
EEE

GROUP D4
United Flora
Narn Regime
Fazrah

Will play 4 games for every AI.
The 2 First AIs in every group, will go to the next round.

Master Belisarius

April 2nd, 2003, 01:53 AM

First Game in the Round 4.
==========================

Vikings vs Orks.

The Vikings had not problems to defeat the Orks, at the turn 260.

Here the link: Vikings_vs_Orks_D1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1049241029.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 3rd, 2003, 02:11 AM

Pyrochette vs Khrel.

The Pyrochette defeated the Khrel, before the turn 290.
The Pyrochette invaded with success the systems Abrion and Cewandi, and this was the begining of the end for the Khrel.

Here the link: Pyrochette_vs_Khrel_D2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1049328232.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 3rd, 2003, 05:12 AM

Aquilaeian vs Tessellate.

A long game.
The Tessellate won at the turn 432.
Although the Aquilaeian needed to deal with the Talisman and Skip Armor weapons, still they offered a good fight to the Tessellate.

Here the link: Aquilaeian_vs_Tessellate_D3.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1049339531.zip)

mlmbd

April 3rd, 2003, 04:59 PM

Congratulations to all the participants. Win or lose , in Round 3! And much luck in Round 4!

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
Aquilaeian vs Tessellate.

A long game.
The Tessellate won at the turn 432.
Although the Aquilaeian needed to deal with the Talisman and Skip Armor weapons, still they offered a good fight to the Tessellate. The Tessellate's seem to be quite a handful to deal with. How is the AI for them coming? Are you still tweaking them?

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font

Master Belisarius

April 5th, 2003, 12:12 AM

Originally posted by mlmbd:
Congratulations to all the participants. Win or lose , in Round 3! And much luck in Round 4!
I should wrote the same, but was ashamed because I have 3 AIs involved!
Would like to know opinons about what AI probably will win... My personal favorite with this map/game settings, is the United Flora.

Originally posted by mlmbd:
The Tessellate's seem to be quite a handful to deal with. How is the AI for them coming? Are you still tweaking them?
Yes, I did many tweaks, specially into the research tree.
But the problem is that while the games for the tournament are running, I can't test the Tessellate in the right way... then, think will release the new files, some days after finish the AI Contest.

Master Belisarius

April 5th, 2003, 12:22 AM

United Flora vs Narn Regime.

The United Flora (my personal candidate to win!), defeated without problems the Narn Regime before the turn 250. Think will be difficult for the Narn (due the game settings/map), repeat their good performance in the first contest.

Here the link: UFlora_vs_Narn_D4.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1049494933.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 5th, 2003, 12:39 AM

Space Vikings vs Toron.

The Space Vikings defeated the Toron before the turn 310. Like the United Flora, the Vikings are a more strong opponent, playing with "low" bonus.

Here the link: Vikings_vs_Toron_D1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1049495596.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 5th, 2003, 12:50 AM

Pyrochette vs CueCappa.

The CueCappa defeated the Pyrochette at the turn 240. This was the first defeat for the Pyrochette... and they had nothing to do against the CueCappa.

Here the link: Pyrochette_vs_CueCappa_D2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1049496603.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 5th, 2003, 01:15 AM

Aquilaeian vs EEE.

The Aquilaeian defeated the EEE at the turn 440. A long game, and think the Aquilaeian victory was deserved, because during all the game, their had the initiative.

Here the link: Aquilaeian_vs_EEE_D3.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1049497866.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 5th, 2003, 02:13 AM

United Flora vs Fazrah.

The United Flora defeated the Fazrah at the turn 235.
IMHO the Fazrah is one of the best "new" AIs that played this contest, but anyway, the UF killed them very fast!

Here the link: UFlora_vs_Fazrah_D4.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1049501464.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 5th, 2003, 04:02 AM

Orks vs Toron.

The Toron had not problems to defeat fast the Orks. They won before the turn 200.

Here the link: Orks_vs_Toron_D1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1049508029.zip)

narf poit chez BOOM

April 5th, 2003, 04:31 AM

The CueCappa defeated the Pyrochette at the turn 240. This was the first defeat for the Pyrochette... and they had nothing to do against the CueCappa.
huh?

Master Belisarius

April 5th, 2003, 04:37 AM

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />
The CueCappa defeated the Pyrochette at the turn 240. This was the first defeat for the Pyrochette... and they had nothing to do against the CueCappa.
huh?<hr /></blockquote>The CueCappa expanded very fast, but also, the Pyrochette ships had strong problems fighting against the CueCappa ships (due the alliegiance subverter and the combat bonus).

Master Belisarius

April 5th, 2003, 05:36 PM

Khrel vs CueCappa.

The CueCappa defeated the Khrel at the turn 300. Until the turn 200, the game was mostly balanced, but the CueCappa always had the initiative, and the Khrel had problems to colonize all of their available planets.
But at the turn 230, the Khrel lost control over Baksha, and some turns later started to lose more systems... then, the game was decided.

Here the link: Khrel_vs_CueCappa_D2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1049556962.zip)

mlmbd

April 5th, 2003, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mlmbd:
Congratulations to all the participants. Win or lose , in Round 3! And much luck in Round 4!
Would like to know opinons about what AI probably will win... My personal favorite with this map/game settings, is the United Flora!<hr /></blockquote>OK! Here are my picks:

GROUP D1 - Toron

GROUP D2 - Pyrochette

GROUP D3 - Tessellate

GROUP D4 - United Flora

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font

Master Belisarius

April 5th, 2003, 07:06 PM

I agree with you, about what should the winners in the Groups D3 and D4, but think the Vikings will win the first group, and the CueCappa the second group!

Master Belisarius

April 6th, 2003, 06:41 AM

Tessellate vs EEE.

The Tessellate defeated the EEE at the turn 400.
At the turn 290 the game was decided, and the EEE only had the systems Cretirk and Devonshire. But for some weird reason, the Tessellate doesn't used their ships to finish the EEE... They created and disbanded fleets without apparent reasons, for many years.
When finally the Tessellate decided to continue the attacks, they had in Cretirk 2 big fleets with more than 400 ships in total... Well, they destroyed the system with these fleets there and for many turns doesn't sent a new fleet to destroy the Devonshire system.
Thus, more later than soon, they won the game at the turn 400.

Here the link: Tessellate_vs_EEE_D3.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1049603890.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 6th, 2003, 03:39 PM

Narn vs Fazrah

The Narn defeated by point the Fazrah, at the turn 500.

Here the link: Narn_vs_Fazrah_D4.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1049636096.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 6th, 2003, 05:16 PM

Orks vs Vikings.

The Vikings crushed the Orks very fast... they won at the turn 150.

Here the link: Orks_vs_Vikings_D1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1049642134.zip)

[ April 08, 2003, 23:23: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

mlmbd

April 7th, 2003, 03:24 PM

Master Belisarius, very odd about the Tessellate vs EEE match. Have any idea what the delay was caused by?

You are probably right with your selections on who is going to win Group 1 and 2. You have 1000's of times more knowledge about AI than I do.

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font

Master Belisarius

April 8th, 2003, 12:24 AM

Originally posted by mlmbd:
Master Belisarius, very odd about the Tessellate vs EEE match. Have any idea what the delay was caused by?
About the Sun Destroyer, well, the AI never consider how many of their own ships could be inside a system, when decide to blow up this system.
About why the AI disband their fleets, I don't know the reason. It was reported a long time ago, and although think this behavior is less common, still is there.

Originally posted by mlmbd:

You are probably right with your selections on who is going to win Group 1 and 2. You have 1000's of times more knowledge about AI than I do.

[b]mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </fonthttp://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I'm not perferct! For example I believed that the Orks would be unable to defeat the Gron, and they did it!

mlmbd

April 8th, 2003, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mlmbd:
Master Belisarius, very odd about the Tessellate vs EEE match. Have any idea what the delay was caused by?
About the Sun Destroyer, well, the AI never consider how many of their own ships could be inside a system, when decide to blow up this system.
About why the AI disband their fleets, I don't know the reason. It was reported a long time ago, and although think this behavior is less common, still is there.<hr /></blockquote>I have no doubt you will track it down. This is one time I really understood AI. I would love to have the ability to figure out what the minor (even a major) problem with the AI.

I really to admire all of you AI designers! I have a little art ability. But what you guys do is just amazing! Just had to say that!

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font

Master Belisarius

April 8th, 2003, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by mlmbd:
I really to admire all of you AI designers! I have a little art ability. But what you guys do is just amazing! Just had to say that!
hehehehe, I admire your work and the others that can create so great shipsets.
To do a decent AI you only need time and patience (trial-error, trial-error), but to create shipsets from scratch, you need to be an artist...

Master Belisarius

April 9th, 2003, 12:11 AM

Khrel vs Pyrochette.

The Pyrochette defeated the Khrel at the turn 330. Although the Khrel did some attacks into the Rove system, most the time the Pyrochette had the initiative and won a deserved game.

Here the link: Khrel_vs_Pyrochette_D2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1049839850.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 10th, 2003, 12:49 AM

Tessellate vs Aquilaeian.

The Tessellate defeated the Aquilaeian before the turn 410. Again, the Aquilaeian offered a decent combat but they never would win an one on one game against the Tessellate...

Here the link: Tessellate_Vs_Aquilaeian_D3.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1049927230.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 10th, 2003, 02:30 AM

Narn Regime vs United Flora.

The UF did it again: defeated the Narn without problems and very fast... They won at the turn 210.

Here the link: Narn_vs_UFlora_D4.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1049933085.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 10th, 2003, 04:31 AM

Toron vs Vikings.

The Vikings had not problems to defeat the Toron. They won at the turn 240, and got the first place in the group D1.

Here the link: Toron_vs_Vikings_D1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1049941799.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 11th, 2003, 12:25 AM

Originally posted by mlmbd:
Seems you were right about the Toron and Pyrochette. I have MUCH to learn! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I could be wrong about the Pyrochette... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Starting in the down side of the map, they defeated the CueCappa by points. But I keep my opinion, because think the CueCappa should win the TieBreak.

Master Belisarius

April 11th, 2003, 12:28 AM

CueCappa vs Pyrochette.

The Pyrochette won by points the game, at the turn 500.
The CueCappa had a better start, conquered one of the Pyrochette's systems, and attacked others. The Pyrochette resisted and later invaded the CueCappa's systems, and won a deserved game.

Here the link: CueCappa_vs_Pyrochette_D2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050013391.zip)

mlmbd

April 11th, 2003, 01:58 AM

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mlmbd:
I really to admire all of you AI designers! I have a little art ability. But what you guys do is just amazing! Just had to say that!
hehehehe, I admire your work and the others that can create so great shipsets.
To do a decent AI you only need time and patience (trial-error, trial-error), but to create shipsets from scratch, you need to be an artist...<hr /></blockquote>OK! I will trade you some of my artistic ability, for some true understaning of AI! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Seems you were right about the Toron and Pyrochette. I have MUCH to learn! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font

Dralasite

April 11th, 2003, 07:53 PM

I predict UF will win the death match 2 title. Not that I really know what I'm talking about, its just a hunch http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Master Belisarius

April 12th, 2003, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by Dralasite:
I predict UF will win the death match 2 title. Not that I really know what I'm talking about, its just a hunch http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I also think the UF will win...

Master Belisarius

April 12th, 2003, 12:50 AM

EEE vs Aquilaeian.

The Aquilaeian won at the turn 340.
The EEE had problems to expand... and the Aquilaeian always had the initiative.

Here the link: EEE_vs_Aquilaeian_D3.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050101361.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 12th, 2003, 03:01 AM

Fazrah vs UFlora

As expected, the United Flora had not problems to defeat the Fazrah. They won at the turn 260.

Here the link: Fazrah_vs_UFlora_D4.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050108541.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 12th, 2003, 03:05 AM

I'm changing the rules for the Semi-Final and Final...
Originally to win the semi-final, I wrote that an AI will need to win 3 times, and for the final, 4 times.
But considering the problem with the starting places, I'll change the rules:
For the Semi-Final.
Will play 6 games.
If both AI won 3 games each, will run a tie-break, like already did.
But if one of the AIs won for example 4 games and the other 0, then, will not run the other 2 games.

The same rule for the final, except that I will run 8 games.

mlmbd

April 12th, 2003, 03:19 PM

Master Belisarius; Why to you, and others, think the UF are so much superior to the other AI? Maybe I can identify something! Not that will really do me much good.

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font

Master Belisarius

April 12th, 2003, 03:42 PM

CueCappa vs Khrel.

The CueCappa won by points at the turn 500. Although the Khrel controled less planets, the difference of points was not so high.

Here the link: CueCappa_vs_Khrel_D3.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050153934.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 12th, 2003, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by mlmbd:
Master Belisarius; Why to you, and others, think the UF are so much superior to the other AI? Maybe I can identify something! Not that will really do me much good.
With the current game settings (one against one, low-bonus), and the custom map that I did (where both AIs can research deep into the tech tree), they can reach all of their potential as Organic/Religious.
Is not easy for others AI races, fight against the Talisman. A human could find a work around, but the AIs can't.
But also does exist other Religious races in the contest: Narn and Tessellate.
The Narn won the previous contest, but currently they have resource problems playing with "low bonus" and this map... also, they already played against the UF and they lost 2 times.
The Tessellate could defeat the UF, thanks their skip armor weapons. But probably the UF would win anyway, because they expand more fast than the Tessellate, and like all my AI races, the Tessellate have problems with research/intel in the current map.

[ April 12, 2003, 14:54: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

Master Belisarius

April 12th, 2003, 04:56 PM

EEE vs Tessellate.

Starting in the upper side, the EEE had big problems to expand... then, the Tessellate won at the turn 170.

Here the link: EEE_vs_Tessellate_D3.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050159351.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 13th, 2003, 02:38 AM

Fazrah vs Narn Regime.

The Narn Regime won by points, at the turn 500. The Fazrah offered a good combat, and most the time was a balanced game.

Here the link: Fazrah_vs_Narn_Regime_D4.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050193813.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 13th, 2003, 03:13 AM

Group D1
Space Vikings 4
Toron 2
Orks 0

Group D2
Pyrochette 3
CueCappa 3
Khrel 0
I will run a Tie-Break to determine the first place.

Group D3
Tessellate 4
Aquilaeian 2
EEE 0

Group D4
United Flora 4
Narn Regime 2
Fazrah 0

Then, the 8 AI that will go to the next round are:

Space Vikings, Toron, Pyrochette, CueCappa, Tessellate, Aquilaeian, United Flora and Narn Regime.
Interesting, but except the Tessellate and CueCappa that have not played the previous contest, the others 6 AIs were under the 8 first AIs in the first contest.

mlmbd

April 13th, 2003, 05:04 PM

Master Belisarius, Interesting, but except the Tessellate and CueCappa that have not played the previous contest, the others 6 AIs were under the 8 first AIs in the first contest. You just wait until I get the AI done for the Puntherraian's (this is never going to happen). They will rise to the top! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Thanks for the info about the UF!

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font

Master Belisarius

April 13th, 2003, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by mlmbd:
You just wait until I get the AI done for the Puntherraian's (this is never going to happen). They will rise to the top! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Why not? As I told you, to me is far more hard to do a nice shipset, than a good AI!

Originally posted by mlmbd:

Thanks for the info about the UF!
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif No problem!
Hey, the Pyrochette won the first Tie-reak game against the CueCappa... then, now is probably that you was right and I was wrong, about who would win the Group D2!

[ April 13, 2003, 20:32: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

Master Belisarius

April 13th, 2003, 10:06 PM

Pyrochette vs CueCappa

The Pyrochette won by points at the turn 500.
The CueCappa attacked the Aargau and Ashadra systems, but the Pyrochette attacked the systems Abrion, Cewandi, Cretirk and Cephedri, then, think they got a deserved victory.

Here the link: Pyrochette_vs_CueCappa_D2TB1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050263623.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 14th, 2003, 03:46 AM

CueCappa vs Pyrochette.

The CueCappa won at the turn 330.
They always had the initiative and the Pyrochette were unable to counter-attack.
Then, the CueCappa got the first place in the Group D2, because they won in 330 turns and the Pyrochette at the turn 500. (Hey mlmbd, at the end, my prediction was right! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ).

Here the link: CueCappa_vs_Pyrochette_D2TB2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050284349.zip)

Then, here are the 2 Groups for the round 5:

GROUP E1
Space Vikings
Tessellate
Pyrochette
Narn Regime

GROUP E2
CueCappa
United Flora
Toron
Aquilaeian

[ April 14, 2003, 02:47: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

mlmbd

April 14th, 2003, 02:19 PM

Master Belisarius, (Hey mlmbd, at the end, my prediction was right! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ). I was close! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Why not? As I told you, to me is far more hard to do a nice shipset, than a good AI! I would gladly exchange a shipset for a working AI. Problem with that is all you AI experts already have shipsets!

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font

Master Belisarius

April 15th, 2003, 12:47 AM

Originally posted by mlmbd:
I was close! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Agree... Also, was more weird, because both races lost when they started in the down side.

Originally posted by mlmbd:
I would gladly exchange a shipset for a working AI. Problem with that is all you AI experts already have shipsets!
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif You know, if some day decide to start a new AI script, first will ask you!
But honestly, only would start a new AI, if feel that can do different AI, but challenging at the same time.

Master Belisarius

April 15th, 2003, 01:10 AM

Space Vikings vs Tessellate.

The Tessellate had not problems to defeat the Vikings, before the turn 180.

Here the link: Vikings_vs_Tessellate_E1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050361540.zip)

mlmbd

April 15th, 2003, 03:16 PM

Gryphin

April 15th, 2003, 05:13 PM

Go Tessellates Go!
Hmm, looks like I better hurry and get a background written for them. I wonder if I can use some of the games for inspiration.

Master Belisarius

April 16th, 2003, 01:09 AM

Originally posted by mlmbd:
Oh I was not looking for an AI maker. I would not turn one down. I was just making a comment. Sorry, if that is what it came accross that way. I remember what you said when you started the AI for the Tessellate.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I misunderstood your words!! Sorry!

Originally posted by Gryphin:
Go Tessellates Go!Hmm, looks like I better hurry and get a background written for them. I wonder if I can use some of the games for inspiration.http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Master Belisarius

April 16th, 2003, 02:06 AM

Pyrochette vs Narn Regime.

The Pyrochette won by points at the turn 500.
The Narn conquered Aaragu and later invaded Ashadra. But the Pyrochette attacked the other side of the map: first Abrion and next Cewandi, Cephedri and Cretrik.
Then, at the end think the Pyrochette's victory was deserved.
Again, is pretty clear that all the Mephsto's races had problems with the combination of this map and "low bonus", and then, don't think the Narn will be fighting for the championship.

Here the link: Pyrochette_vs_Narn_E1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050451150.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 16th, 2003, 03:31 AM

CueCappa vs United Flora.

The United Flora had not problems to defeat the CueCappa, at the turn 196.

Here the link: CueCappa_vs_UFlora_E2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050456623.zip)

mlmbd

April 16th, 2003, 05:18 PM

Master Belisarius, http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I misunderstood your words!! Sorry! It is not a problem. Sometimes I am a bit intense! OK, alot of the time I am to intense!

Again, is pretty clear that all the Mephsto's races had problems with the combination of this map and "low bonus", and then, don't think the Narn will be fighting for the championship. Just goes to show how hard it is to make a really good balanced AI. I think you will agree, Mephsto designs some great AI's!

Gryphin, Hmm, looks like I better hurry and get a background written for them. I wonder if I can use some of the games for inspiration. Yeah, what's the hold up? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font

Gryphin

April 16th, 2003, 06:35 PM

The hold up is my state of mind

Master Belisarius

April 16th, 2003, 11:37 PM

Originally posted by mlmbd:
ust goes to show how hard it is to make a really good balanced AI. I think you will agree, Mephsto designs some great AI's!Agree... Anyway, the Narn and Toron are under the 8 better AIs, on this contest... it mean that under this game conditions, still they're great!

Ragnarok

April 16th, 2003, 11:49 PM

I'm cheering for the Tessellates for the Death Match. I think they will make it to the finals at least; and then they will win it all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Well, I hope they do anyways.

Master Belisarius

April 17th, 2003, 12:43 AM

Toron vs Aquilaeian.

The Aquilaeian had a better start, but slowly the Toron started to counter-attack, and invdaded the Aquilaeian systems.
The Toron won by points at the turn 500.

Here the link: Toron_vs_Aquilaeian_E2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050532017.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 17th, 2003, 02:00 AM

Pyrochette vs Space Vikings.

The Vikings crushed the Pyrochette very very fast!
They won at the turn 150!!

Here the link: Pyrochette_Vs_Vikings_E1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050537279.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 17th, 2003, 04:26 PM

Tessellate vs Narn.

A mostly balanced game. The Tessellate won by points at the turn 500.

Here the link: Tessellate_vs_Narn_E1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050589404.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 17th, 2003, 07:29 PM

Toron vs CueCappa.

The CueCappa defeated the Toron, at the turn 300.

Here the link: Toron_vs_CueCappa_E2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050598537.zip)

mlmbd

April 17th, 2003, 07:56 PM

Gryphin; Originally posted by Gryphin:
The hold up is my state of mindSo, ewhat is wrong with your state of mind?

Master Belisarius; Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
Agree... Anyway, the Narn and Toron are under the 8 better AIs, on this contest... it mean that under this game conditions, still they're great!Yes they are. Even if I do not know enough to design a great AI myself! I can and do see greatness where it is! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font

Master Belisarius

April 17th, 2003, 11:20 PM

United Flora vs Aquilaeian

As expected, the United Flora had not problems to defeat the Aquilaeian.
The United Flora won before the turn 250.

Here the Link: UFlora_vs_Aquilaeian_E2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050614095.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 18th, 2003, 02:28 AM

Narn Regime vs Space Vikings.

The Space Vikings got a deserved victory against the Narn Regime. They won at the turn 230.

Here the link: Narn_vs_Vikings_E1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050625665.zip)

Dralasite

April 18th, 2003, 05:11 PM

I don't know how, but this thread has single handedly convinced me to play some more solo games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Master Belisarius

April 18th, 2003, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by Dralasite:
I don't know how, but this thread has single handedly convinced me to play some more solo games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Still I play solo games, time in time...

[ April 18, 2003, 16:17: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

Master Belisarius

April 18th, 2003, 05:47 PM

Tessellate vs Pyrochette.

The Tessellate defeated the Pyrochette very fast... even starting in the upper side. They won before the turn 140.

Here the link: Tessellate_vs_Pyrochette_E1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050679659.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 18th, 2003, 06:10 PM

Aquilaeian vs CueCappa.

The CueCappa defeated the Aquilaeian before the turn 320.
Looks like on this group, the Aquilaeian will be the AI eliminated...

Here the link: Aquilaeian_vs_CueCappa_E2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050682160.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 18th, 2003, 09:20 PM

United Flora vs Toron

The United Flora won by points at the turn 500. This was the first game on this contest, that an AI resisted a game until the turn 500 against the United Flora! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Here the link: UFlora_Vs_Toron_E2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050693402.zip)

[ April 18, 2003, 20:20: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

Master Belisarius

April 19th, 2003, 02:54 PM

Tessellate vs Space Vikings.

The Tessellate won a decisive game for the first place, against the Space Vikings, at the turn 408.
Around the turn 300, still was a balanced game and the Vikings was strong, but around the turn 350, was clear that the Tessellate will win.

Here the link: Tessellate_vs_Vikings_E1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050756787.zip)

mlmbd

April 19th, 2003, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
Tessellate vs Space Vikings.

The Tessellate won a decisive game for the first place, against the Space Vikings, at the turn 408.
Around the turn 300, still was a balanced game and the Vikings was strong, but around the turn 350, was clear that the Tessellate will win.

Here the link: Tessellate_vs_Vikings_E1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050756787.zip)Seems the Tessellate are on a roll!

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font

Master Belisarius

April 19th, 2003, 07:13 PM

With the current game settings and map, I think the Tessellate and United Flora are the best AIs.

mlmbd

April 20th, 2003, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
With the current game settings and map, I think the Tessellate and United Flora are the best AIs.Which of the two is going to walk away on top?

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font

Master Belisarius

April 20th, 2003, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by mlmbd:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
With the current game settings and map, I think the Tessellate and United Flora are the best AIs.Which of the two is going to walk away on top?

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font<hr /></blockquote>Think the UF probably would be the winners. They expand fast and the Tessellate have problems (like all of my AIs on this contest) to produce enough Research Points and Intel Points.
Anyway, the Tessellate have a great advantage: if they can reach the end game, their Skip armor weapons have advantage over the UF ships.
At the end, still think that probably the UF will win, but can't bet it.

Master Belisarius

April 22nd, 2003, 04:51 AM

Narn vs Pyrochette.

The Narn defeated the Pyrochette by points, at the turn 500.

Here the link: Narn_vs_Pyrochette_E1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050979836.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 23rd, 2003, 02:31 AM

United Flora vs CueCappa.

The CueCappa did some holes into the UF territory, and some attacks... but the UF won again at the turn 360.

Here the link: UFlora_vs_CueCappa_E2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1051057817.zip)

The UF played 18 games on this contest and has not defeats!

Dralasite

April 23rd, 2003, 05:35 PM

I can't wait for the big United Flora vs Tesselate battle.

I'm a little suprised that CueCappa has made it so far. In my solo games, they tend to be middle of the road, unlike say UF. Has CueCappa been updated recently? Maybe I have an old copy. I'll have to check.

Master Belisarius

April 24th, 2003, 05:14 AM

Originally posted by Dralasite:
I can't wait for the big United Flora vs Tesselate battle.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Think I should skip all the other games! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Originally posted by Dralasite:

I'm a little suprised that CueCappa has made it so far. In my solo games, they tend to be middle of the road, unlike say UF. Has CueCappa been updated recently? Maybe I have an old copy. I'll have to check.This is the Version included into the TDM, done by Rollo. Was suggested by Primitive, and I'm glad that him did it!

Master Belisarius

April 24th, 2003, 05:40 AM

Aquilaeian vs Toron.

The Aquilaeian won by points at the turn 500. During a good time was a balanced game, but at the end the Aquilaeian was close to erase all the Toron's systems.

Here the link: Aquilaeian_vs_Toron_E2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1051155587.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 24th, 2003, 06:13 AM

Space Vikings vs Pyrochette.

The Vikings won a deserved game, at the turn 400.

Here the link: Vikings_vs_Pyrochette_E1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1051156942.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 26th, 2003, 12:33 AM

Narn vs Tessellate.

After a long and boring game, the Tessellate won by point after the turn 500.
They had many ships (more than 500), and don't know why... but they decided to do not finish the Narn's planets.
Also, the Narn closed the WP in the Bardron system... and because the Tessellate don't build Warp Openers when the AI is in the Defensive mode, they never attacked this system...

Here the link: Narn_vs_Tessellate_E1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1051309716.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 26th, 2003, 05:06 PM

CueCappa vs Toron.

The CueCappa won at the turn 310.

Here the link: CueCappa_vs_Toron_E2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1051366418.zip)

Aquilaeian vs United Flora.

The United Flora won a fast game, at the turn 180.

Here the link: Aquilaeian_vs_UFlora_E2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1051366827.zip)

Vikings vs Narn.

The Vikings won by points, at the turn 500.

Here the link: Vikings_vs_Narn_E1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1051369461.zip)

Master Belisarius

April 27th, 2003, 09:49 PM

Pyrochette vs Tessellate

The Tessellate won at the turn 345.

Here the link: Pyrochette_vs_Tessellate_E1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1051471965.zip)

Then, the standings in the group E1 are:

Tessellate 6 points
Space Vikings 4 points
Pyrochette 1 point
Narn Regime 1 point

Then, the Tessellate and Space Vikings will be in the next round.
To determine the third place, I will run a tie break between the Pyrochette and the Narn Regime.

Dralasite

April 28th, 2003, 07:33 PM

Think I should skip all the other games! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif The idea had occured to me. But as long as you are willing to continue, it would probably be best to do all the rounds. We wouldn't want to make any other AIs feel left out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

mlmbd

April 29th, 2003, 01:41 AM

Dang! I can hardly wait! Just to let you know. I would like to compliment for your efforts and your AI as well! Bravo, Master Belisarius, Bravo!mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font

Master Belisarius

April 29th, 2003, 02:06 AM

Originally posted by mlmbd:
Dang! I can hardly wait! Just to let you know. I would like to compliment for your efforts and your AI as well! Bravo, Master Belisarius.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Thanks mlbd!
Although know is not possible to run a fair contest for all the AIs, think I did my best effort, and at least now we have some decent elements to say what are the best AIs.

Master Belisarius

April 29th, 2003, 02:07 AM

Originally posted by Dralasite:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Think I should skip all the other games! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif The idea had occured to me. But as long as you are willing to continue, it would probably be best to do all the rounds. We wouldn't want to make any other AIs feel left out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <hr /></blockquote>http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Well... after all I did lots of games, and think some more will not hurt me.

Master Belisarius

April 29th, 2003, 02:28 AM

CueCappa vs Aquilaeian.

The CueCappa won at the turn 500 (but not by points!!).

Here the link: CueCappa_Vs_Aquilaeian_E2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1051575634.zip)

If in the next match, the Toron can't defeat the United Flora, we will need a new TieBreak.

Is pretty clear to me, that with this map and game settings, all the Rollo's AIs are the best.
The Mephistos AI's had problems with the resources, and my own AI's had problems with Research/Intel... then, is not a surprise to me that the Pyrochette/Narn and Toron/Aquilaeian are fighting for the Last place to be in the next round. And my guess is that the Narn and Toron would win (the TieBreaks, of course!).

[ April 29, 2003, 01:29: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

mlmbd

April 29th, 2003, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mlmbd:
Dang! I can hardly wait! Just to let you know. I would like to compliment for your efforts and your AI as well! Bravo, Master Belisarius.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Thanks mlbd!
Although know is not possible to run a fair contest for all the AIs, think I did my best effort, and at least now we have some decent elements to say what are the best AIs.<hr /></blockquote>Agreed! You do set out to make as fair as possible. It would impossible to be totally fair to all the AI's. After all they have different designers. What is good for this one, this time. Could make it bad for the same AI next match!

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font

Master Belisarius

April 30th, 2003, 01:13 AM

Toron vs United Flora.

The United Flora crushed the Toron, at the turn 150.

Here the link: Toron_Vs_UFlora_E2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1051657470.zip)

Then, the standings in the group E2 are:

United Flora 6 Points
CueCappa 4 Points
Toron 1 Point
Aquilaeian 1 Point

I will run a TieBreak to see who get the third place.

Master Belisarius

May 1st, 2003, 01:50 AM

Pyrochette vs Narn Regime.

The Narn won the first game in the TieBreak, at the turn 500 by points.

Narn = 13.8M
Pyrochette = 1.9M

Here the link:Pyrochette_vs_Narn_E1_TB1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1051745508.zip)

Master Belisarius

May 2nd, 2003, 01:41 AM

Narn vs Pyrochette.

The Narn by points at the turn 500, and then, got the 3rd place in the group E1.

Here the link: Narn_vs_Pyrochette_E1_TB2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1051832347.zip)

Master Belisarius

May 3rd, 2003, 05:45 PM

Toron vs Aquilaeian.

The Aquilaeian defeated the Toron, at the turn 500.

Link: Toron_vs_Aquilaeian_E2_TB1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1051974560.zip)

Aquilaeian vs Toron.
The Aquilaeian won the game at the turn 380. Then, they got the place for the next round.

Link: Aquilaeian_vs_Toron_E2_TB2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1051976442.zip)

Then, for the round 6th, here are the Groups:

GROUP F1
Tessellate
CueCappa
Aquilaeian

GROUP F2
United Flora
Space Vikings
Narn Regime

Master Belisarius

May 5th, 2003, 12:41 AM

Tessellate vs CueCappa.

The Tessellate defeated the CueCappa at the turn 500 by points. Interesting but both races lost their homeworlds!

Link: Tessellate_vs_CueCappa_F1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1052087675.zip)

Dralasite

May 6th, 2003, 12:05 AM

Just curious, how many AIs did we have that lost all matches? Unless you have the info handy, I can look through the old Posts and figure it out.

Master Belisarius

May 7th, 2003, 01:24 AM

Originally posted by Dralasite:
Just curious, how many AIs did we have that lost all matches? Unless you have the info handy, I can look through the old Posts and figure it out.It was in the first round.
Here are the AIs:

Group A1 - Cylon
Group A2 - Romulan
Group A3 - Ekhazan
Group A4 - Sergetti
Group A5 - Corrian
Group A6 - Toltayan
Group A7 - Shadows
Group A8 - XiChung

Upon once time, the Sergetti was the most strong AI in the market!!
Really I think that the AIs scripts are a lot more strong now.

Master Belisarius

May 7th, 2003, 03:25 AM

Two unexpected results! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

United Flora vs Space Vikings

The Space Vikings defeated the United Flora at the turn 160. They expanded fast and the UF had not time to develop their optimal level.

Here the link: UFlora_vs_Vikings_F2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1052263945.zip)

Tessellate vs Aquilaeian.

The Aquilaeian defeated the Tessellate at the turn 500 by points. They won 7.5M vs 7.4M! Think the Tessellate would have win if the game would be played for some more turns.

Here the link: Tessellate_vs_Aquilaeian_F1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1052265800.zip)

Dralasite

May 7th, 2003, 04:17 PM

Wow both top contenders fall to underdogs! Just when I thought I had it all figured out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Master Belisarius

May 8th, 2003, 01:04 AM

Originally posted by Dralasite:
Wow both top contenders fall to underdogs! Just when I thought I had it all figured out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I thought like you...

Master Belisarius

May 8th, 2003, 01:18 AM

Originally posted by Unknown_Enemy:
Hi people,

Would you be so kind to help me ?
I am trying to update an AI. So I run several tests games, and my AI regularly reverse to a very early ship design.

For instance, in place of a nice and mean battle cruiser it reverses to a puny destroyer. Which is really a pain.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

I did read on this thread about this bug, so please could someone explain me why does it happens, and most of all tell me how to avoid that ?

Think this could help you:

Originally posted by Rexxx:
Well, after checking the Gron savegames I have to say again how helpful for me this contest is.
From time to time (every second or third turn) the Gron think of a LC equipped with CSMs as their best short range attack ship (I guess due to a lousy oversight in the design-file). Not the smartest thing a talisman race can do in mid- and endgame when they can have a DN coming with TKPs and the Talisman. Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
I saw this problem with most of the modded AI races...

In other of my Posts on this topic, I wrote the work-around that in my view fix this problem (talking about the problem with the Sergetti's ships).
When does exist several ship designes with different sizes, at some point, the AI start to rebuild their ships using small designes (old designes!).
This start to occur (at least in the cases that I knew), after some time the AI reach the DN size. But think in some way is also related to the weapon that currently is using for the DN.
An example, the Tessellate attack ships.
As most the modders, I did different attack ships, depending of the ship size. Here the DN main design.

Name := Attack Ship
Design Type := Attack Ship
Vehicle Type := Ship
Default Strategy := Maximum Weapons Range
Size Minimum Tonnage := 801
Size Maximum Tonnage := 5000
Num Must Have At Least 1 Ability := 2
Must Have Ability 1 := Weapons Always Hit
Must Have Ability 2 := Quantum Reactor
Minimum Speed := 4
Desired Speed := 6
Majority Weapon Family Pick 1 := 22
Majority Weapon Family Pick 2 := 0
Majority Weapon Family Pick 3 := 0
Majority Weapon Family Pick 4 := 0
Majority Weapon Family Pick 5 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 1 := 30
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 2 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 3 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 4 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 5 := 0
Shields Spaces Per One := 250
Armor Spaces Per One := 10000
Majority Comp Spaces Per One := 200
Majority Comp Ability := Weapon
Secondary Comp Spaces Per One := 200
Secondary Comp Ability := Weapon
Num Misc Abilities := 7
Misc Ability 1 Name := Cloak Level
Misc Ability 1 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 2 Name := Combat To Hit Defense Plus
Misc Ability 2 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 3 Name := Point-Defense
Misc Ability 3 Spaces Per One := 250
Misc Ability 4 Name := Self-Destruct
Misc Ability 4 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 5 Name := Multiplex Tracking
Misc Ability 5 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 6 Name := Extra Movement Generation
Misc Ability 6 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 7 Name := Point-Defense
Misc Ability 7 Spaces Per One := 10000

The weapon "30" is the Shard Cannon.
Well, time in time, after start to build these designes, the AI decided to re-create their attack ships... and had not better idea than build an old CR design, that used their Crystalline Armors and Napal Bombs as weapon... Here is:

Name := Attack Ship
Design Type := Attack Ship
Vehicle Type := Ship
Default Strategy := Ram
Size Minimum Tonnage := 401
Size Maximum Tonnage := 500
Num Must Have At Least 1 Ability := 1
Must Have Ability 1 := Shield Generation From Damage
Minimum Speed := 4
Desired Speed := 6
Majority Weapon Family Pick 1 := 0
Majority Weapon Family Pick 2 := 0
Majority Weapon Family Pick 3 := 0
Majority Weapon Family Pick 4 := 0
Majority Weapon Family Pick 5 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 1 := 13
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 2 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 3 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 4 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 5 := 0
Shields Spaces Per One := 250
Armor Spaces Per One := 0
Majority Comp Spaces Per One := 80
Majority Comp Ability := Shield Generation From Damage
Secondary Comp Spaces Per One := 10000
Secondary Comp Ability := Weapon
Num Misc Abilities := 5
Misc Ability 1 Name := Quantum Reactor
Misc Ability 1 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 2 Name := Combat To Hit Defense Plus
Misc Ability 2 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 3 Name := Supply Storage
Misc Ability 3 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 4 Name := Point-Defense
Misc Ability 4 Spaces Per One := 250
Misc Ability 5 Name := Self-Destruct
Misc Ability 5 Spaces Per One := 10000

Why use this old CR design and at least, don't use the other BC or BB availabe ship designes????

I had an idea: did a paste of the original DN two times, with the idea that maybe the AI could use the second design (that was the same than the first of course!), instead the CR. I was wrong...
Then, remembered that the Pyrochette never had this problem... and remembered that them used 2 kind of DN ships with different weapons.
With this idea, I did a new try: designed a new DN that use the other Crystalline Weapon (can't remember the name... I don't like so much this weapon!!), their weapon family is 31.
This thing fixed the problem!!!!!! The Tessellate started to rotate their ship designes, using the original DN with shard cannon during some time, and time in time, designed the DN with the other weapon as main attack ship.

I had the same problem with the auxiliary ships: Support, Offensive sweepers, troop transport, and even with units. Using the same idea (designes with different weapons for the DN ships), never had again this problem.
IT WORKED TO ME... and think should work to everybody!!!
Hope it will help to create more strong AIs!
Think this post should help you.

Master Belisarius

May 8th, 2003, 01:20 AM

United Flora vs Narn Regime.

The United Flora needed some time, but finally defeated the Narn at the turn 410.

Here the link: UFlora_vs_Narn_F2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1052349553.zip)

[ May 08, 2003, 00:48: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

Unknown_Enemy

May 8th, 2003, 01:32 AM

Hi people,

Would you be so kind to help me ?
I am trying to update an AI. So I run several tests games, and my AI regularly reverse to a very early ship design.

For instance, in place of a nice and mean battle cruiser it reverses to a puny destroyer. Which is really a pain.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

I did read on this thread about this bug, so please could someone explain me why does it happens, and most of all tell me how to avoid that ?

What is this mess about "calling names" ?

Rollo

May 8th, 2003, 03:26 AM

Originally posted by Dralasite:
Wow both top contenders fall to underdogs! Just when I thought I had it all figured out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Hey, who's calling the Vikings underdogs?
*Rollo sharpens his axe http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Yay!, for the Aquilaeian and Vikings.
Two venerable AIs that gave those young upstarts a good and deserved kicking http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif .
(funny that these duels were both between races of the same modders)

Rollo

Dralasite

May 8th, 2003, 08:32 PM

Two venerable AIs that gave those young upstarts a good and deserved kicking
I agree! UF was undefeated until then. It was a nice suprise. Now I'm back on the edge of my seat wondering if UF will be #1 or not. This thread is better than spectator sports http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Master Belisarius

May 8th, 2003, 10:52 PM

Originally posted by Rollo:
(funny that these duels were both between races of the same modders)
Rollohttp://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif And more funny will be the next round, when 3 AIs of the same modder will be there! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Master Belisarius

May 8th, 2003, 10:57 PM

CueCappa vs Aquilaeian.

The CueCappa won at the turn 360 (as I expected), and then, after the first round of games here are the standings in the group F1.

GROUP F1 Points
Tessellate 1
CueCappa 1
Aquilaeian 1

Link to the game: CueCappa_vs_Aquilaeian_F1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1052425107.zip)

Master Belisarius

May 8th, 2003, 11:08 PM

Vikings vs Narn

Another unexpected result... at least to me. The Narn won by points at the turn 500.

Here the link:Vikings_Vs_Narn_F2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1052427925.zip)

Then, the standings after the first round of games are:

GROUP F2 Points
United Flora 1
Space Vikings 1
Narn Regime 1

cybersol

May 9th, 2003, 03:28 AM

De-lurking...

MB - I just want to say that I have read all of this and the Last AI Death Match and they are excellent. Great undertaking for the AI Designers and the players. Thanks.

Rexxx - I noticed the Khrel made it to the top 12 AI's. They and the Tessellate are the only two non-TDM AI's there. So when (or where if already done) are you going to release the Khrel AI/shipset for download inside the forum?

Unknown_Enemy

May 9th, 2003, 09:47 AM

Indeed, your solution is working.

Thanks for it.

Master Belisarius

May 10th, 2003, 01:09 AM

Originally posted by cybersol:
De-lurking...

MB - I just want to say that I have read all of this and the Last AI Death Match and they are excellent. Great undertaking for the AI Designers and the players. Thanks.

Rexxx - I noticed the Khrel made it to the top 12 AI's. They and the Tessellate are the only two non-TDM AI's there. So when (or where if already done) are you going to release the Khrel AI/shipset for download inside the forum?I'm always glad to know a Lurker! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Welcome on board!
About the Khrel files, already I have posted all the scripts involved in the contest, on this forum (but without the images).
Try this: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1047347357.ZIP.

If you want the Khrel images, drop me a mail to jlperyr@adinet.com.uy, and I'll send it to you (don't think Rexxx or Richard Meic would have problems with this).

Master Belisarius

May 10th, 2003, 01:37 AM

Originally posted by Unknown_Enemy:
Indeed, your solution is working.
Thanks for it.http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Cool!

Master Belisarius

May 10th, 2003, 01:40 AM

CueCappa vs Tessellate.

The Tessellate defeated the CueCappa, at the turn 500 by points (again).

Here the link: CueCappa_vs_Tessellate_F1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1052523251.zip)

cybersol

May 10th, 2003, 01:45 AM

MB - It is funny that you suggest that because Last night I was looking through some of the old favorite shipsets threads and ran across the Khrel. So I had just finished doing exactly what you suggested. My only question is whether the original empire files (2k, 3k, 5) are equivalent to new one (2k)?

Just so it is easier for others to get the shipset for the fine AI, here is the link.

Khrel Shipset Link (http://meicosoft.com/thesingularity/khrel/Khrel.zip)

Master Belisarius

May 10th, 2003, 01:59 AM

Originally posted by cybersol:
MB - It is funny that you suggest that because Last night I was looking through some of the old favorite shipsets threads and ran across the Khrel. So I had just finished doing exactly what you suggested. My only question is whether the original empire files (2k, 3k, 5) are equivalent to new one (2k)?

Just so it is easier for others to get the shipset for the fine AI, here is the link.

Khrel Shipset Link (http://meicosoft.com/thesingularity/khrel/Khrel.zip)Here all the Emp. files that Rexxx sent me, were done at the 21/02/03.
Khrel_Emp_Files.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1052524582.zip)

Strongly suggest to use the Khrel scripts that I have posted with the AI other scripts, because Rexxx sent me several updates for the Khrel.

Master Belisarius

May 10th, 2003, 02:47 PM

Space Vikings vs United Flora.

The UF took revenge, and defeated the Vikings fast, at the turn 170.

Here the link: Vikings_vs_UFlora_F2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1052570769.zip)

cybersol

May 10th, 2003, 09:51 PM

Yes, I assembled the shipset from the link I gave with the AI from the death match download and added the empire files that you recently uploaded. So now I have an new AI opponent that was in the top twelve. Thanks.

EDIT: As long as you are providing .emp files, the Tessellate that Gyphin has in his signature does not include these files. Nevermind, I just found these files inside the death match scripts download that you already provided.

The Deathmatch looks exciting six AI's tied after 1 round.

[ May 10, 2003, 21:09: Message edited by: cybersol ]

Master Belisarius

May 10th, 2003, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by cybersol:
Yes, I assembled the shipset from the link I gave with the AI from the death match download and added the empire files that you recently uploaded. So now I have an new AI opponent that was in the top twelve. Thanks.

EDIT: As long as you are providing .emp files, the Tessellate that Gyphin has in his signature does not include these files. Nevermind, I just found these files inside the death match scripts download that you already provided.

The Deathmatch looks exciting six AI's tied after 1 round.http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif You was more fast than me!
Anyway, here are the *.emp files Tessellate_Emp_Files.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1052598205.zip)

Master Belisarius

May 11th, 2003, 04:05 PM

Aquilaeian vs Tessellate.

The Tessellate defeated the Aquilaeian without big problems, at the turn 360.

Here the link: Aquilaeian_vs_Tessellate_F1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1052660082.zip)

Master Belisarius

May 12th, 2003, 03:12 AM

Narn Regime vs United Flora.

The UF had not problems to defeat the Narn very fast. They won at the turn 160.

Here the link: Narn_vs_UFlora_F2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1052700832.zip)

Dralasite

May 12th, 2003, 07:47 PM

The UF took revenge, and defeated the Vikings fast, at the turn 170.
Was this different from when the Vikings won because of starting position?

[ May 12, 2003, 18:47: Message edited by: Dralasite ]

Master Belisarius

May 12th, 2003, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by Dralasite:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> The UF took revenge, and defeated the Vikings fast, at the turn 170.
Was this different from when the Vikings won because of starting position?<hr /></blockquote>Was very similiar. The Vikings won at the turn 160.
The Rollo's races expand very fast, and more when they start in the down side of the map. The UF crushed the Vikings without problems, this time.
But also, remember that the "luck" is very important too, specially when 2 strong AIs are fighting.

Master Belisarius

May 12th, 2003, 11:25 PM

Aquilaeian vs CueCappa.

Another unexpected result... the Aquilaeian won at the turn 500 by points (the CueCappa only kept one system).
During most part of the game the CueCappa was ahead in the numbers and had the inititative, but arround the turns 380-430 the things changed to the Aquilaeian side.

I'm somewhat embarrassed... The Aquilaeian had a lot of luck playing against the Tessellate and winning 7.5M vs 7.4M. And now, they won this game against the CueCappa when I'm sure that the CueCappa is clearly more strong than the Aquilaeian (specially with this map/settings).
I know, I know, the luck is always a factor in any game, and more when 2 AIs are playing... but I'm not sure to be happy that my AI defeated the CueCappa, because at the end I want to see the most strong AIs in the highest places of this contest.

Here the link: Aquilaeian_vs_CueCappa_F1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1052774334.zip)

This was the Last game for the group F1. Here the standings:

Tessellate 3 Points
Aquilaeian 2 Points
CueCappa 1 Point

Then, the Tessellate and the Aquilaeian got places to the Semifinal.

Master Belisarius

May 14th, 2003, 12:47 AM

Originally posted by Rollo:
My poor Cappa, such bad luck http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif . But I suppose they have proven their worth http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .Agree 100% with you.

Master Belisarius

May 14th, 2003, 01:03 AM

Narn Regime vs Space Vikings.

Staring in the down side, the Vikings had not problems to crush the Narn, at the turn 150. Then, they got the second place in the group.

Here the link: Narn_vs_Vikings_G2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1052866798.zip)

The standings in the group G2 are:

United Flora 3 Points
Space Vikings 2 Points
Narn Regime 1 Points.

The two semifinals are:

G1
Tessellate
Space vikings

G2
United Flora
Aquilaeian

I will run a max of 6 games x every AI (3 games staring in the upper side, and 3 starting in the down side). But, if I got a result like 4-0, I will not run all the games.

Rollo

May 14th, 2003, 01:17 AM

My poor Cappa, such bad luck http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif . But I suppose they have proven their worth http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

Master Belisarius

May 14th, 2003, 01:25 AM

Tessellate vs Vikings.

The Vikings won at the turn 230.
This time was not unexpected... because the Space Vikings defeated the Tessellate in the first round.

Here the link: Tessellate_vs_Vikings_G1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1052867491.zip)

TerranC

May 14th, 2003, 03:46 AM

could you post up the standings of all races that has participated in the match and sort them by highest point to the lowest?

Oh, and I'd like fries with that also http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Master Belisarius

May 14th, 2003, 04:33 AM

Originally posted by TerranC:
could you post up the standings of all races that has participated in the match and sort them by highest point to the lowest?

Oh, and I'd like fries with that also http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif If you have excel, you would like this: AI_DeathMatch_2_Fixture.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1052879571.zip)

minipol

May 14th, 2003, 12:50 PM

MB,

could it be possible that you have filled out the score wrong in the excel for the Tessellate/Space Vikings?
The Tessellate have 1 point but they lost to the Space Vikings.

Anyway, interesting file http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I mostly play TDM/FQM solo and for my next game i am going to add some of these races as they are not all in TDM. I suppose i just have to copy the appropriate files into the TDM/FQM mod directory and these races should then be available?

cybersol

May 14th, 2003, 09:28 PM

As long as we are finding errors in the fixture spreadsheet. I believe the Orks won third round C5 Orks vs Gron.

Looking over the results so far, it really strikes me how the AI field is broadly competitive. The top 12 AI's were all extremely good, but somehow the top six take it to an even higher level. I'm just amazed at the great efforts all the AI designers have put into their creations.

Master Belisarius

May 15th, 2003, 12:49 AM

United Flora vs Aquilaeian.

The UF defeated the Aquilaeian without problems, at the turn 270

Here the link: UFlora_vs_Aquilaeian_G2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1052952388.zip)

Master Belisarius

May 15th, 2003, 01:01 AM

Thanks for the fixes Cybersol/Minipol!
(In my discharge must say that the spreadsheet was supposed to be released at the end!)

TerranC

May 15th, 2003, 01:27 AM

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
Thanks for the fixes Cybersol/Minipol!
(In my discharge must say that the spreadsheet was supposed to be released at the end!)whoops... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Master Belisarius

May 15th, 2003, 04:34 AM

Space Vikings vs Tessellate.

This time, the Tessellate won a fast game at the turn 190.
In the early game, the Vikings expanded fastest, but the Tessellate were able to remove the Vikings colonies of their systems.

Here the link: Vikings_vs_Tessellate_G1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1052966005.zip)

Dralasite

May 15th, 2003, 05:25 PM

So far, it looks like Vikings vs Tessellate are evenly matched, and United Flora vs Tessellate is an even match (I believe both Groups are 50%-50% so far for wins losses?)?

[ May 15, 2003, 16:25: Message edited by: Dralasite ]

Master Belisarius

May 16th, 2003, 12:14 AM

Originally posted by Dralasite:
So far, it looks like Vikings vs Tessellate are evenly matched, and United Flora vs Tessellate is an even match (I believe both Groups are 50%-50% so far for wins losses?)?Yes Vikings/Tessellate is a very balanced match... If the Tessellate can reach the mid-game with a decent possition, they can win, but the Vikings can defeat them because they research and expand more fastest.

About UFlora vs Tessellate, don't know. Still they have not played during this contest... but think the UF have advantage.

Master Belisarius

May 16th, 2003, 12:39 AM

Aquilaeian vs United Flora.

Starting at the upper side, the Aquilaeian have even lesser opportunities to win... The UF won at the turn 270.

Here the link: Aquilaeian_vs_UFlora_G2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1053037690.zip)

Dralasite

May 16th, 2003, 12:49 AM

About UFlora vs Tessellate, don't know Oops, I meant to say United Flora vs Vikings, that is also even losses and wins.

Master Belisarius

May 16th, 2003, 12:59 AM

Tessellate vs Vikings.

This time the Tessellate offered a decent battle, but the Vikings won at the turn 360.

Here the link: Tessellate_vs_Vikings_G1B.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1053039303.zip)

Master Belisarius

May 16th, 2003, 01:11 AM

Originally posted by Dralasite:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> About UFlora vs Tessellate, don't know Oops, I meant to say United Flora vs Vikings, that is also even losses and wins.<hr /></blockquote>http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I can see now! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif And agree with you, of course.

Tymy

May 16th, 2003, 08:43 AM

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Unknown_Enemy:
Thanks to the devious mind of Nodachi http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif , the SE4 batch works on windows XP. But I could not get the installer to work.

So I put all the files from setup1.cab in a directory, and reinstalled SE4 to its default loacation.

Then indeed if you don't try to update anything from the SE4 Batch configuration, it is working.

It is probably the same for windows 2000.Great!
To change the SEBatch configuration, you only need to change the values into fields of the file "paramete.dbf", using something that could change these files.<hr /></blockquote>Hi Master Belisarius,
It took me a while to get SE4 Batch running, but finally it did.

When running your programming i saw in Task Manager that it automatically executes SE4.exe.
Does your program make a command line voor SE4 based on the variabels you provide in the mainscreen and in the configuration screen ??

Could you explain if it so what commandlines you are using ?

Furthermore i hope that you will take the time to make SE4 batch again and available for all Versions of Windows. It will most definitly encourage a lot of new AI programmers to join the club.

I for sure am very interested !

Thanks in advance.

gr. Tymy

Dralasite

May 16th, 2003, 04:56 PM

What was se batch written it? Perhaps it can be decompiled? It may be easier to rewrite, I dunno.

Master Belisarius

May 17th, 2003, 12:17 AM

United Flora vs Aquilaeian.

Again, the UF won... this time at the turn 210.
Then, if in the next game they win again (what I can bet 1000 to 1!), they will reach the final.

Here the link: UFlora_vs_Aquilaeian_G2B.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1053123110.zip)

JLS

May 17th, 2003, 12:20 AM

MB, what races are in the finals so far?

[ May 16, 2003, 23:20: Message edited by: JLS ]

Master Belisarius

May 17th, 2003, 12:20 AM

Originally posted by Dralasite:
What was se batch written it? Perhaps it can be decompiled? It may be easier to rewrite, I dunno.Was done in Visual Fox Pro, and yes, could be decompiled, but don't think worth it...
The code is VERY SIMPLE, and could be re-done in other better language, without problems.

Master Belisarius

May 17th, 2003, 12:40 AM

Originally posted by JLS:
MB, what races are in the finals so far?Currently I'm running the semifinals, and are 4 races.

Group 1
Tessellate vs Vikings

Group 2
United Flora vs Aquilaeian

Master Belisarius

May 17th, 2003, 12:44 AM

Vikings vs Tessellate.

Starting in the down side, the Tessellate defeated the Vikings at the turn 350.

Here the link: Vikings_vs_Tessellate_G1B.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1053124339.zip)

I think the luck will decide this balanced semi-final!

Tessellate 2 Points.
Space Vikings 2 Points.

Still need to run 2 more games, but if ater it still we have a draw, I will run a tie-break like did in the past...

Master Belisarius

May 17th, 2003, 01:20 AM

Originally posted by Tymy:
Hi Master Belisarius,
It took me a while to get SE4 Batch running, but finally it did.
At least the workaround was ok for you.

Originally posted by Tymy:
When running your programming i saw in Task Manager that it automatically executes SE4.exe.
Does your program make a command line voor SE4 based on the variabels you provide in the mainscreen and in the configuration screen ??
Yes, you're 100% right.

Originally posted by Tymy:

Could you explain if it so what commandlines you are using ?
I'm using command lines to run SE4.EXE, that is a feature from the 1.39 patch (Check the File link down).

Originally posted by Tymy:

Furthermore i hope that you will take the time to make SE4 batch again and available for all Versions of Windows.
My problem is that my skills programming for windows, are very limited... and do it again in Visual Fox doesn't look very smart to me!

Originally posted by Tymy:

It will most definitly encourage a lot of new AI programmers to join the club.
I for sure am very interested !
Thanks in advance.
gr. TymyIf someone wants to do again this program but in a different language, here an example of how could be the code: HowTodSE4Batch.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1053127180.zip)

Master Belisarius

May 17th, 2003, 03:27 PM

Tessellate vs Space Vikings.

The Vikings had the initiaative during most part the time. The Tessellate destroyed some of their own systems, trying to stop the attackers.

Turn 410.
The Vikings are rebuilding Ab Ova, Aargau and Ashadra.
The Tessellate conquered Abrion and started to attack Cewandi.
At this point, althoutgh the Tessellate is ahead in the numbers, think the game could be for the Vikings too, because they have good fleets inside the Tessellate's territory.

Turn 500.
The Tessellate won by points, although they controled less systems.

Still I need to run a game, and if the Vikings can defeat the Tessellate, then, I will run a Tie-Break.

Here the link: Tesellate_vs_Vikings_G1C.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1053191482.zip)

[ May 17, 2003, 18:13: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

Gandalph

May 17th, 2003, 07:29 PM

MB - I use your map and your batch program to test my revised AI's. In my Last test game, the Corrian opened a warp point to the Game Master system and blew up their star. Interesting behavior and glad to see that they use Stellar Manip so effectively. Also the first time I have seen this happen. BTW, they beat the Rage by points at turn 300. Still need to make them stronger.

Master Belisarius

May 17th, 2003, 07:32 PM

Aquilaeian vs United Flora.

This time, the UF won at the turn 327, and then, they go to the final!

Standings in the group G2 finish with an expressive 4-0 for the United Flora!

Here the link: Aquilaeian_vs_UFlora_G2B.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1053192606.zip)

Master Belisarius

May 17th, 2003, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by Gandalph:
MB - I use your map and your batch program to test my revised AI's. In my Last test game, the Corrian opened a warp point to the Game Master system and blew up their star. Interesting behavior and glad to see that they use Stellar Manip so effectively. Also the first time I have seen this happen.Hey, very cool! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Yes, if the AI have Warp Openers, will use it. But only to open holes to unexplored systems.

Originally posted by Gandalph:
BTW, they beat the Rage by points at turn 300. Still need to make them stronger.http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Very good! Great that you had time to continue tweaking the scripts.

Master Belisarius

May 18th, 2003, 05:10 PM

Space Vikings vs Tessellate.

After a long and balanced game, the Tessellate won by points at the turn 500.

With this result, the Tessellate did 4 points and the Vikings finished with 2 points.

Here the link: Vikings_vs_Tessellate_G1C.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1053268957.zip)

Then this night I'll start the final between the Tessellate and the United Flora.
Will be 8 games (plus a Tie-break if does exist a draw).
Also, if an AI can get a result like 5-0, the final will be over...

Although I did not yet games between both races with this map/settings (I did some with more AIs, when was doing the AI for the Tessellate), my guess is that the UF should win without big problems.

[ May 18, 2003, 16:12: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

Tymy

May 19th, 2003, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Tymy:
Hi Master Belisarius,
It took me a while to get SE4 Batch running, but finally it did.
At least the workaround was ok for you.

Originally posted by Tymy:
When running your programming i saw in Task Manager that it automatically executes SE4.exe.
Does your program make a command line voor SE4 based on the variabels you provide in the mainscreen and in the configuration screen ??
Yes, you're 100% right.

Originally posted by Tymy:

Could you explain if it so what commandlines you are using ?
I'm using command lines to run SE4.EXE, that is a feature from the 1.39 patch (Check the File link down).

Originally posted by Tymy:

Furthermore i hope that you will take the time to make SE4 batch again and available for all Versions of Windows.
My problem is that my skills programming for windows, are very limited... and do it again in Visual Fox doesn't look very smart to me!

Originally posted by Tymy:

It will most definitly encourage a lot of new AI programmers to join the club.
I for sure am very interested !
Thanks in advance.
gr. TymyIf someone wants to do again this program but in a different language, here an example of how could be the code: HowTodSE4Batch.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1053127180.zip)<hr /></blockquote>@Master Belisarius,
Thanks for the information. If i can get Turbo Pascal to work and my programming skills are not failing me i will have a go.

gr. Tymy

Dralasite

May 19th, 2003, 03:38 PM

Then this night I'll start the final between the Tessellate and the United Flora.
Allright, the main event is about to start! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

This means Vikings are 3rd place, right?

Master Belisarius

May 20th, 2003, 12:39 AM

Originally posted by Tymy:
[QUOTE]@Master Belisarius,
Thanks for the information. If i can get Turbo Pascal to work and my programming skills are not failing me i will have a go.
gr. Tymyhttp://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif No problem.
I you want exchange more ideas or a beta tester, drop me an e-mail.

Master Belisarius

May 20th, 2003, 12:42 AM

Originally posted by Dralasite:
[QUOTE]
Allright, the main event is about to start! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Yes, and after so many games, must say that I'm happy to see the light at the end of the tunnel!

Originally posted by Dralasite:
[QUOTE]
This means Vikings are 3rd place, right?Yes. Considering the results of the Semifinal, and the previous results, is pretty safe to say that they got the 3rd place.

Master Belisarius

May 20th, 2003, 12:48 AM

Tessellate vs United Flora.

Although the Tessellate offered a decent challenge, the UF won at the turn 350.
Honestly I think will be very difficult for the Tessellate defeat the UF, even starting in the down side.

Here the link: UFlora_vs_Tessellate_Final.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1053383518.zip)

[ May 19, 2003, 23:49: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

Master Belisarius

May 20th, 2003, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by Unknown_Enemy:
The united flora's combo is deadly. Not only this chipset is beautiful, but this AI is still a groundbreaking one.

To my opinion, the best suited techs to fight the talisman are the organic techs. So when you combine the 2......

I wonder if someone will try to make a temporal/cristaline race. Just imagine warships bearing temporal shield bLasters with cristaline armor skiping.....Agree with you!
But also, please remember that for the AI is VERY important the game settings and map.
With the current conditions, the UF AI is without doubts the best.
But if you remember the fisrt Death Match, although the UF did a very good job, the UF was down of several AIs.
The Narn is the oppossite example... they won the first Death Match withouth problems and in the second, although did a good job too, they were far to repeat their outstanding performances.

One more element to consider is the Bug that makes the AI believe that is lack of resources, when need to decide the Type of Colony: the AI doesn't consider the Bonus to know if is lack of resources or not, then, a colony that should have be used to Research could be used for Minerals... This Bug really hurted the performance of my own AIs (with this map they're always somewhat lack of research/intel).

But regardless the problems, think the 2 Death Matchs helped us to know more about the AIs, and now we have elements to identificate the best AIs. After all these games, I'm sure that some races never will defeat other races... regardless the game settings.

About the Temporal/Crystalline combo, I'm not so sure. After all, think the standard Shield Depleters can eat very well the shields...
After some years playing SE4 and modding/testing AIs, I think the most important racial trait for an AI is the Religious. The Talisman IMHO, although is an unbalanced component, is the best way to make competitive an AI when play against humans.

Unknown_Enemy

May 21st, 2003, 01:21 AM

The united flora's combo is deadly. Not only this chipset is beautiful, but this AI is still a groundbreaking one.

To my opinion, the best suited techs to fight the talisman are the organic techs. So when you combine the 2......

I wonder if someone will try to make a temporal/cristaline race. Just imagine warships bearing temporal shield bLasters with cristaline armor skiping.....

Master Belisarius

May 21st, 2003, 01:30 AM

United Flora vs Tessellate.

Starting in the down side, the Tessellate defeated the UF at the turn 380.
At least the Final will not finish 5-0!

Here the link: UFlora_vs_Tessellate_Final.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1053472663.zip)

cybersol

May 21st, 2003, 07:04 AM

Wow, its been a great second death match. I have read every post in both death match threads.

I downloaded both maps and they are great at balancing things for all atmosphere and colony types. I also like the three dualing channels with the asteroid systems seperating the two sides.

But considering the differences we have seen in this death match between starting in the upper or lower side, I thought there might be a way to further balance the two halves. I am currently working to change the map to incorporate two new ideas. The first idea is that the same planet types and number should be the same distance in game hexes (not systems) from the starting planets for both empires. The second idea is symmetry. If you consider the entire galaxy map with all the system maps inside and do a 180 degree rotation, then the map falls back on top of itself. Player two and three swapped sides during the rotation, but the map (even system maps) look exactly the same as before the rotation. Thus the two players start in absolutely identical situtations.

I am about 3/4 of the way through adding these concepts to your map, but I wanted to know your opinion. Also, what other map changes have considered making but not implemented? Thanks.

Unknown_Enemy

May 21st, 2003, 10:03 AM

I am interested by such a map !

Tymy

May 21st, 2003, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by cybersol:
Wow, its been a great second death match. I have read every post in both death match threads.

I downloaded both maps and they are great at balancing things for all atmosphere and colony types. I also like the three dualing channels with the asteroid systems seperating the two sides.

But considering the differences we have seen in this death match between starting in the upper or lower side, I thought there might be a way to further balance the two halves. I am currently working to change the map to incorporate two new ideas. The first idea is that the same planet types and number should be the same distance in game hexes (not systems) from the starting planets for both empires. The second idea is symmetry. If you consider the entire galaxy map with all the system maps inside and do a 180 degree rotation, then the map falls back on top of itself. Player two and three swapped sides during the rotation, but the map (even system maps) look exactly the same as before the rotation. Thus the two players start in absolutely identical situtations.

I am about 3/4 of the way through adding these concepts to your map, but I wanted to know your opinion. Also, what other map changes have considered making but not implemented? Thanks.Hi SyberSol,

I like your idea. A good balanced map will force the ai to its limits. I�d like to see an area in the middle of the map wich is NOT connected by Warppoints. Let�s say that this area will be about 25% of the total space.

This means that the only way to make first contact is to go around this area. To challenge the ai even further more you can make a corridor to both empires by a couple of systems wich are connected by warppoints with a damage when passing through.

Make the ai to do some work to make first contact and even more work to establih a position �on the otherside�.

Just my thoughts !

gr. Tymy

Unknown_Enemy

May 21st, 2003, 02:31 PM

Hi SyberSol,

I like your idea. A good balanced map will force the ai to its limits. I�d like to see an area in the middle of the map wich is NOT connected by Warppoints. Let�s say that this area will be about 25% of the total space.

This means that the only way to make first contact is to go around this area. To challenge the ai even further more you can make a corridor to both empires by a couple of systems wich are connected by warppoints with a damage when passing through.

Make the ai to do some work to make first contact and even more work to establih a position �on the otherside�.

Just my thoughts !

gr. Tymy I disagree. The goal is to test an AI in its general behavior, here we would test them in a particular case which is rarely relevant to most of our games.

cybersol

May 21st, 2003, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by Tymy:
[QUOTE]Hi CyberSol,
I�d like to see an area in the middle of the map wich is NOT connected by Warppoints. Let�s say that this area will be about 25% of the total space.I will be making the map with all warp points connected to test the AI's in general expansion and combat. However, once you have the map I'm making (which is derived from MB's), it is very easy to load it in the map maker and delete both sides of the six warp points that connect the 3 middle systems of the dueling channels. The warp points are much easier to delete than add in the included editor.

Master Belisarius

May 22nd, 2003, 12:19 AM

Originally posted by cybersol:
Wow, its been a great second death match. I have read every post in both death match threads.

I downloaded both maps and they are great at balancing things for all atmosphere and colony types. I also like the three dualing channels with the asteroid systems seperating the two sides.

But considering the differences we have seen in this death match between starting in the upper or lower side, I thought there might be a way to further balance the two halves. I am currently working to change the map to incorporate two new ideas. The first idea is that the same planet types and number should be the same distance in game hexes (not systems) from the starting planets for both empires. The second idea is symmetry. If you consider the entire galaxy map with all the system maps inside and do a 180 degree rotation, then the map falls back on top of itself. Player two and three swapped sides during the rotation, but the map (even system maps) look exactly the same as before the rotation. Thus the two players start in absolutely identical situtations.

I am about 3/4 of the way through adding these concepts to your map, but I wanted to know your opinion. Also, what other map changes have considered making but not implemented? Thanks.I really like your idea! Please post the map when you could have it!
About the difference to start in the upper or lower side... I don't know why, but the "Colony Ship Bug" always happen in the upper side.
Don't know why an AI decide to build only "Colony Gas" ships, when have lots of Ice planets available to colonize.

Master Belisarius

May 22nd, 2003, 12:22 AM

Originally posted by Tymy:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by cybersol:
Wow, its been a great second death match. I have read every post in both death match threads.

I downloaded both maps and they are great at balancing things for all atmosphere and colony types. I also like the three dualing channels with the asteroid systems seperating the two sides.

But considering the differences we have seen in this death match between starting in the upper or lower side, I thought there might be a way to further balance the two halves. I am currently working to change the map to incorporate two new ideas. The first idea is that the same planet types and number should be the same distance in game hexes (not systems) from the starting planets for both empires. The second idea is symmetry. If you consider the entire galaxy map with all the system maps inside and do a 180 degree rotation, then the map falls back on top of itself. Player two and three swapped sides during the rotation, but the map (even system maps) look exactly the same as before the rotation. Thus the two players start in absolutely identical situtations.

I am about 3/4 of the way through adding these concepts to your map, but I wanted to know your opinion. Also, what other map changes have considered making but not implemented? Thanks.Hi SyberSol,

I like your idea. A good balanced map will force the ai to its limits. I�d like to see an area in the middle of the map wich is NOT connected by Warppoints. Let�s say that this area will be about 25% of the total space.

This means that the only way to make first contact is to go around this area. To challenge the ai even further more you can make a corridor to both empires by a couple of systems wich are connected by warppoints with a damage when passing through.

Make the ai to do some work to make first contact and even more work to establih a position �on the otherside�.

Just my thoughts !

gr. Tymy<hr /></blockquote>Hugh soory Tymy... but I'm with Unknown Enemy here.
With your suggestion, I think the test would be very partial. Also, even the current map is partial: many times an AI start at the side of other AI...

Master Belisarius

May 22nd, 2003, 12:31 AM

Tessellate vs United Flora.

The Tessellate ressisted during a time, but when the UF sent their first strong fleets, the game was over.
The UF won at the turn 250.

Here the link: Tessellate_vs_UFlora_FinalB.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1053556262.zip)

Unknown_Enemy

May 22nd, 2003, 10:20 PM

United floras 2
Tesselate 1

Master Belisarius

May 23rd, 2003, 01:17 AM

United Flora vs Tessellate.

The United Flora won at the turn 310.
A fairly fast victory, considering that they started at the upper side... and looks like the predictions about who would win this final, are accurated.

Here the link: UFlora_vs_Tessellate_Finalb.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1053643527.zip)

Edit: standings

United Flora 3
Tessellate 1

[ May 23, 2003, 00:17: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

Rollo

May 23rd, 2003, 02:11 PM

hmm, this is almost like a tennis match. Starting on the upper or lower side giving you an advantage. If that is so, the UF are one 'break' ahead http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

Rollo

Master Belisarius

May 23rd, 2003, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by Rollo:
hmm, this is almost like a tennis match. Starting on the upper or lower side giving you an advantage. If that is so, the UF are one 'break' ahead http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

Rollohehehehe, from a long time ago, I had the same thought! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
By the way, the UF won the game that was running during the night... and they're now 4-1.

Dralasite

May 23rd, 2003, 08:32 PM

... and looks like the predictions about who would win this final, are accurated.I'm not counting any chickens until they hatch http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

MB, thanks again for doing this death match for us! If I recall correctly, this thread identified at least one bug (the colony bug), and brought up at least 3 or 4 Posts about (distinct) methods for (re)designing AIs. I'd call that a great success.

cybersol

May 23rd, 2003, 10:35 PM

Thanks for the encouragement. I have finally finished the new map I have been working on. This map is based on the system layout of Master Belisarius's Death Match 2 map, but each system map has been completely reworked.

Map Use: To use put a observer as player one in the far away Zitrod system with no warp points, put AI Oppenent 1 as player two in the upper central Aldan system, and AI Opponent 2 as player three in the lower central Sutran system. Change the planet type and atmosphere to match the each players starting colony and atmosphere preferences. If you fail to do this, then some players will get additional planets that ruin the movement point and planet type balance of the map.

Goals/Changes:

A) Balance of planet type and atmosphere changed to be movement point based instead of number of systems away based.
Example: If there is a nice mineral rich rock oxygen planet 8 movement points away from the nearest home planet, then there are also nice mineral rich ANY ANY planets 8 movement points away.

B) Make the overall map symmetric to 180 degree rotation. If you picture the galaxy map and each system map inside and rotate 180 degrees about the central system between the AI opponents, then the resulting galaxy map and each system map looks identical. The AI opponents starting positions have switched sides and the human player now observes from far away on the other side, but the position of objects within the systems looks the same.
Example: If AI opponent one enters a system and turns left to find a nice juicy mineral rich ice methane planet, then AI opponent 2 can enter the equivalent system on his side of the map and turn left and find a mineral rich ice methane planet of the same juicyness.

C) Closely balance total number of facilities available for each planet type and atmosphere so the AI's are on a similar footing. There are 5 medium rock and ice planets, one of each atmosphere in every system. There are also 4 large gas planets, one of each valid atmosphere. Finally there is a tiny rock none and ice none moon like planet in each system. This gives 32 facilities per system (fps) for gas giant players and rock/ice none players, but only 28 fps for rock/ice other atmospheres. There are seven total systems on each players side so that is a 28 facility disadvantage for rock/ice other atmospheres types. So for more facility balance, 4 additional medium rock and 4 additional medium ice planets were added among the seven systems (all the average distance away with the average quality). Now rock/ice other atmospheres have 31.4 fps, gas other have 32.0, and rock/ice none have 33.7 fps. Gas player have to colonize the fewest planets for the same number of facilities while rock/ice none have to colonize the most planets. I think the overall result is closely balance, with slight biases in the same direction as they would be on random maps.

D) Add some variety in planet qualities while maintaining balance. Among the 7 systems near each player are seven types of balanced planet sets:
Planet Type, Mineral Value, Organic Value, Radioactive Value
1, 115, 115, 115
2, 30, 95, 140
3, 95, 140, 30
4, 140, 30, 95
5, 30, 30, 70
6, 30, 70, 30
7, 95, 30, 30
Type 1 planets are all in the single system away from the opponent, while type 2-4 planets are distributed among the three closest systems toward the opponent, and type 5-7 systems are distributed among the three second closet systems toward the opponent. The distribution occurs like this: rock type 2, ice type 3, and gas type 4 are in one system; then ice type 2, gas type 3, and rock type 4 are in another; and finally gas type 2, rock type 3, and ice type 4 are in the Last of the set.

E) Changed the system names so player 2(3)'s home system starts with A(S), those one away start with B(T), and two away start with D(X). The middle asteroid systems start with M.

AI Dueling Map (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1053721907.zip)

[ May 23, 2003, 21:36: Message edited by: cybersol ]

Master Belisarius

May 24th, 2003, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by Dralasite:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />... and looks like the predictions about who would win this final, are accurated.I'm not counting any chickens until they hatch http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

MB, thanks again for doing this death match for us! If I recall correctly, this thread identified at least one bug (the colony bug), and brought up at least 3 or 4 Posts about (distinct) methods for (re)designing AIs. I'd call that a great success.<hr /></blockquote>http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Thanks.

Also, we discovered here other nasty bug: the AI doesn't consider the Bonus to know if need to ignore the AI_Planet_Types.txt or not

Really hope that at least this bug could be fixed... but I'm starting to believe that will not exist more SE4 patches.

Master Belisarius

May 24th, 2003, 12:33 AM

Originally posted by cybersol:
Thanks for the encouragement. I have finally finished the new map I have been working on. This map is based on the system layout of Master Belisarius's Death Match 2 map, but each system map has been completely reworked.

Map Use: To use put a observer as player one in the far away Zitrod system with no warp points, put AI Oppenent 1 as player two in the upper central Aldan system, and AI Opponent 2 as player three in the lower central Sutran system. Change the planet type and atmosphere to match the each players starting colony and atmosphere preferences. If you fail to do this, then some players will get additional planets that ruin the movement point and planet type balance of the map.

Goals/Changes:

A) Balance of planet type and atmosphere changed to be movement point based instead of number of systems away based.
Example: If there is a nice mineral rich rock oxygen planet 8 movement points away from the nearest home planet, then there are also nice mineral rich ANY ANY planets 8 movement points away.

B) Make the overall map symmetric to 180 degree rotation. If you picture the galaxy map and each system map inside and rotate 180 degrees about the central system between the AI opponents, then the resulting galaxy map and each system map looks identical. The AI opponents starting positions have switched sides and the human player now observes from far away on the other side, but the position of objects within the systems looks the same.
Example: If AI opponent one enters a system and turns left to find a nice juicy mineral rich ice methane planet, then AI opponent 2 can enter the equivalent system on his side of the map and turn left and find a mineral rich ice methane planet of the same juicyness.

C) Closely balance total number of facilities available for each planet type and atmosphere so the AI's are on a similar footing. There are 5 medium rock and ice planets, one of each atmosphere in every system. There are also 4 large gas planets, one of each valid atmosphere. Finally there is a tiny rock none and ice none moon like planet in each system. This gives 32 facilities per system (fps) for gas giant players and rock/ice none players, but only 28 fps for rock/ice other atmospheres. There are seven total systems on each players side so that is a 28 facility disadvantage for rock/ice other atmospheres types. So for more facility balance, 4 additional medium rock and 4 additional medium ice planets were added among the seven systems (all the average distance away with the average quality). Now rock/ice other atmospheres have 31.4 fps, gas other have 32.0, and rock/ice none have 33.7 fps. Gas player have to colonize the fewest planets for the same number of facilities while rock/ice none have to colonize the most planets. I think the overall result is closely balance, with slight biases in the same direction as they would be on random maps.

D) Add some variety in planet qualities while maintaining balance. Among the 7 systems near each player are seven types of balanced planet sets:
Planet Type, Mineral Value, Organic Value, Radioactive Value
1, 115, 115, 115
2, 30, 95, 140
3, 95, 140, 30
4, 140, 30, 95
5, 30, 30, 70
6, 30, 70, 30
7, 95, 30, 30
Type 1 planets are all in the single system away from the opponent, while type 2-4 planets are distributed among the three closest systems toward the opponent, and type 5-7 systems are distributed among the three second closet systems toward the opponent. The distribution occurs like this: rock type 2, ice type 3, and gas type 4 are in one system; then ice type 2, gas type 3, and rock type 4 are in another; and finally gas type 2, rock type 3, and ice type 4 are in the Last of the set.

E) Changed the system names so player 2(3)'s home system starts with A(S), those one away start with B(T), and two away start with D(X). The middle asteroid systems start with M.

AI Dueling Map (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1053721907.zip)A very interesting map, thanks Cybersol!
I'll do some test later, and will let you know how it worked to me! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Master Belisarius

May 24th, 2003, 01:31 AM

THE UNITED FLORA IS THE NEW CHAMPION!
=====================================

Congrats Rollo!!!! ( http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif Again you defeated me! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif )

The UF defeated the Tessellate 2 more times (turn 260 starting in the down side and turn 360 starting at the upper side), and then, they won the Final 5 vs 1.

Here the link to both games:
Tessellate_vs_UFlora_FinalC.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1053729875.zip)
UFlora_vs_Tessellate_FinalC.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1053730965.zip)

Is evident that the UF victory on this second Death Match was more than deserved (they have played 34 games and only lost 2!).

This contest doesn't wanted to reach the absolute truth (as was demonstrated before, the game settings never are fair to all the AIs), but regardless this problem and the bugs, after the 211 games of this contest (in the first Death Match I runned 73 games), I think we have some more elements to know the most competitive AIs.

Here a link to the excel file, with the matches and results (hope I have killed all the mistakes!): AI-DEATH-MATCH-2-RESULTS.zip.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1053735976.zip)

The AI DEATH MATCH II Final standings here!

======================================
ROUND PLACE POINTS
======================================
Final 1 United Flora 32
Final 2 Tessellate 27
SemiFinal 3 Space Vikings 23
SemiFinal 4 Aquilaeian 15
Round 6 5 CueCappa 16
Round 6 6 Narn Regime 15
Round 5 7 Pyrochette 15
Round 5 8 Toron 13
Round 4 9 Fazrah 9
Round 4 10 EEE 7
Round 4 11 Khrel 7
Round 4 12 Orks 5
Round 3 13 Gron 6
Round 3 14 Rage 4
Round 3 15 Namovans 3
Round 3 15 Earth Alliance 3
Round 3 17 Sallega 2
Round 3 17 Piundon 2
Round 2 19 Klingon 2
Round 2 20 Teslik 1
Round 2 20 Drakol 1
Round 2 20 Azorani 1
Round 2 20 Praetorians 1
Round 2 20 Colonial 1
Round 1 25 Cylon 0
Round 1 25 Corrian 0
Round 1 25 Romulan 0
Round 1 25 Toltayan 0
Round 1 25 Ekhazan 0
Round 1 25 Shadows 0
Round 1 25 Sergetti 0
Round 1 25 XiChung 0

[ May 24, 2003, 01:26: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

Unknown_Enemy

May 24th, 2003, 01:54 AM

United floras 3
Tesselate 1

cybersol

May 24th, 2003, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
A very interesting map, thanks Cybersol!
I'll do some test later, and will let you know how it worked to me! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Please I would love to hear your thoughts on the map.

And congratulations on finishing the running of the second death match. I thought it was an awesome undertaking, with loads of potential value to the modders and the players. Thanks so much!

Rollo

May 26th, 2003, 01:15 AM

yay! hooray for the Flora!
Thanks a lot for running this extensive contest MB http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

And also congrats to you and all the other modders.

Rollo

Master Belisarius

May 26th, 2003, 03:22 AM

Originally posted by Rollo:
yay! hooray for the Flora!
Thanks a lot for running this extensive contest MB http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

And also congrats to you and all the other modders.

Rollohttp://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Thanks!

Master Belisarius

May 26th, 2003, 03:25 AM

Originally posted by cybersol:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
A very interesting map, thanks Cybersol!
I'll do some test later, and will let you know how it worked to me! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Please I would love to hear your thoughts on the map.

And congratulations on finishing the running of the second death match. I thought it was an awesome undertaking, with loads of potential value to the modders and the players. Thanks so much!<hr /></blockquote>Thanks Cybersol!
I was running some games with your map. Really liked your job... it's more balanced than the map that I did. Would liked to have this map to run the contest! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
But thanks anyway, because will use it in my game test...

PS: the "colony bug" still happen to the races that start in the upper side...

[ May 26, 2003, 02:26: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

cybersol

May 27th, 2003, 01:41 AM

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
Thanks Cybersol!

I was running some games with your map. Really liked your job... it's more balanced than the map that I did. Would liked to have this map to run the contest! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
But thanks anyway, because will use it in my game test...

PS: the "colony bug" still happen to the races that start in the upper side...I'm glad you like it. I was inspired by the Death Matches, SE4Batch, and your Version of the map. So it would not exist without you. You can use it for the next Death Match if your computer ever recovers from this one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I uploaded it right when I finished it and I'm running SE4Batch on an OLD machine, so I've only done 4 games on it my self. 2 on each side for the Sallega vs. Gron. The Sallega definitely tend to experience the colony bug when on the upper side. But the Gron do not really.

Only two trends I noticed. One was that the Sallega use LR Colony ships with no cargo storage and these tend to end up filled with all sorts of mines and fighters. The gron use much higher capacity colony ships and although they sometimes get some non-population cargo, they rarely get completely filled. Does the colony bug correspond with the amount of trash taking up space in a races colony ships? The other trend was that races like the Gron and United Flora that only use a very limited number of colony ships tend to have less severe effects from the bug. Has your vast experience with this bug told you anything?

[ May 26, 2003, 13:14: Message edited by: cybersol ]

Dralasite

May 28th, 2003, 04:47 PM

Also, we discovered here other nasty bug: the AI doesn't consider the Bonus to know if need to ignore the AI_Planet_Types.txt or not

Really hope that at least this bug could be fixed... but I'm starting to believe that will not exist more SE4 patches.

Sadly I think you may be right. Certianly I wouldn't expect any patch until Star Fury is out. After that maybe SEV will be started? Who knows?

Master Belisarius

May 29th, 2003, 02:38 AM

Originally posted by cybersol:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
Thanks Cybersol!

I was running some games with your map. Really liked your job... it's more balanced than the map that I did. Would liked to have this map to run the contest! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
But thanks anyway, because will use it in my game test...

PS: the "colony bug" still happen to the races that start in the upper side...I'm glad you like it. I was inspired by the Death Matches, SE4Batch, and your Version of the map. So it would not exist without you. You can use it for the next Death Match if your computer ever recovers from this one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I uploaded it right when I finished it and I'm running SE4Batch on an OLD machine, so I've only done 4 games on it my self. 2 on each side for the Sallega vs. Gron. The Sallega definitely tend to experience the colony bug when on the upper side. But the Gron do not really.

Only two trends I noticed. One was that the Sallega use LR Colony ships with no cargo storage and these tend to end up filled with all sorts of mines and fighters. The gron use much higher capacity colony ships and although they sometimes get some non-population cargo, they rarely get completely filled. Does the colony bug correspond with the amount of trash taking up space in a races colony ships? The other trend was that races like the Gron and United Flora that only use a very limited number of colony ships tend to have less severe effects from the bug. Has your vast experience with this bug told you anything?<hr /></blockquote>Sorry for the delay... but right now I'm out of my country and will come back to my house (and computer!), the next week.
About my experience about the colony bug, really I don't know. The Gron have a different problem with the colony ships: they only can have 5 colony ships at the same time... it makes that if the AI built 5 Gas Colony ships, will not build more colonies if doesn't exist available planets to colonize. And because they doesn't send ships over minefields, usually they have problems because will not build more colony ships until lose a Gas planet (the example were Gas Colony ships!), or some of the Colony ships was destroyed.
All the Rexxx races have this problem, and I saw them work worst starting in the upper side (at least with the old map).

Really I'm not sure about the reason.