AI CAMPAIGN ; Released [Archive]

JLS

February 21st, 2003, 11:00 PM

~
This thread is for topics related AI Campaign :

Please download it in link below or in the Mods thread� Let me know what you think.

AI Campaign ~ Is optimized for Solitaire Play, Simultaneous Play, and Finite resources. It can be enjoyed in multiplayer LAN or Modem games as well. With its enhanced infrastructure, diplomatic and economic interface, in addition to an improved CHALLANGING and diverse AI. Included are startup choices for the Solo Human Player, which range from very easy to fatalistic.

AI Campaign~ Incorporates-> AI BALANCE MOD 5-8-2002 by John Sullivan. Created specifically for a more challenging AI. AI balance allows the AI and Human Players to have some specific Components, Vehicles, and Abilities. Some examples are: the AI better handles mines now, point to point re-supply, faster ship training, sector scanning, Stellar manipulations, combating Plagues to name a few and does not use our fun stuff like; star liners, low level Master Computers etc.

AI Campaign~ Incorporates-> TACTICAL FIGHTER MOD 12-26-2002 by John Sullivan. Fighters now move in Tactical combat only. On the Strategic map, when launched over a planet or any sector, they remain on combat patrol for that sector until recovered by a Carrier or your planet. This makes for some interesting strategies and designs.

AI Campaign~ Incorporates-> FINITE ECONOMICS MOD 1-2-2003 by John Sullivan. This MOD helps the AI better handle finite play and will enhance greatly the value of building Towns and Cities in AI Campaign. Finite economics mod Introduces Imperial Trade, trade centers and Asteroid Resource Domes.

AI Campaign~ Incorporates-> MULTIPLAYER LADDER HANDICAP MOD 8-8-2002 by John Sullivan. This helps less experienced players in your group by selecting an agreed MP ladder Handicap Level selection or selections from the Traits Menu for a point bonus that can be spent by weaker players before staring a new game. Tested and endorsed by The Strategic Gamers LAN Group.

Any questions on mod or Downloads,
E-Mail me @ Sullivan_JohnL@msn.com

To Download and for updates; click link below

(((> AI Campaign <))) (http://www.johnlsullivan.net)

~

[ February 21, 2003, 23:06: Message edited by: JLS ]

oleg

February 21st, 2003, 11:55 PM

Very intriguing. But are you sure you can make AI work well with finite resourses ? So far it was a chalange. May be it would be better to optimize infinite resourses game for AI sake.

JLS

February 22nd, 2003, 12:20 AM

Originally posted by oleg:
Very intriguing. But are you sure you can make AI work well with finite resourses ? So far it was a chalange. May be it would be better to optimize infinite resourses game for AI sake.Absolutely the AI can keep up, the trick is do you remember how to stay ahead in net resources. I bet its been awhile since you played a Finite Game�
The AI plays extremely well at Infinite resources as well in AI Campaign.

[ February 21, 2003, 22:27: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS

February 22nd, 2003, 12:31 AM

Actually, Oleg you are credited for help with the Temporal and Religious Races for some Components balance.

[ February 21, 2003, 23:19: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron

February 22nd, 2003, 01:50 AM

AIs do not do well in finite resource games at all because they do not know how to balance production versus storage. Generally, after you destroy their main fleet or two, they are dead, because their planets won't hardly be making any resources at all.

JLS

February 22nd, 2003, 02:12 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
AIs do not do well in finite resource games at all because they do not know how to balance production versus storage. Generally, after you destroy their main fleet or two, they are dead, because their planets won't hardly be making any resources at all.http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif I know I have played many mods and Base SE4 since SE4 hit the market�.
AI Campaign is modeled to handle Finite very well, and Fleet replacement of its losses.
We have been building this for months.
~
All I ask is that you try it. It won�t take you long to figure out how I accomplished this thru AI Balance and Finite Mods http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
~
A matter of fact you have some contribution to this Model and you have been mentioned in the credits. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ February 22, 2003, 00:15: Message edited by: JLS ]

oleg

February 22nd, 2003, 03:01 AM

Thanks, John http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Another question before I actually play your mod:
Is it still benefitical to take Religious because Nature shrine can "grow" resources on all colonies ?

JLS

February 22nd, 2003, 03:11 AM

Originally posted by oleg:
Thanks, John http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Another question before I actually play your mod:
Is it still benefitical to take Religious because Nature shrine can "grow" resources on all colonies ?With War Shrine, Death Shrine, Fate Shrine the Time Shrine is great for Resources.

Exactly the nature shrine has been toned down
and I believe the Talisman is what you suggested http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

oleg

February 22nd, 2003, 03:25 AM

First impression: Looks REALLY good ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

First comment: Designnames folder is empty. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif No big deal but anyway. It would be good to include into facility info how many research points Cultural centers generate.

Fyron

February 22nd, 2003, 03:32 AM

Originally posted by JLS:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
AIs do not do well in finite resource games at all because they do not know how to balance production versus storage. Generally, after you destroy their main fleet or two, they are dead, because their planets won't hardly be making any resources at all.http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif I know I have played many mods and Base SE4 since SE4 hit the market�.
AI Campaign is modeled to handle Finite very well, and Fleet replacement of its losses.
We have been building this for months.
~
All I ask is that you try it. It won�t take you long to figure out how I accomplished this thru AI Balance and Finite Mods http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
~
A matter of fact you have some contribution to this Model and you have been mentioned in the credits. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <hr /></blockquote>Umm... sorry for not being 100% clear. My post was mostly referencing this statement:

Absolutely the AI can keep up, the trick is do you remember how to stay ahead in net resources. I bet its been awhile since you played a Finite Game�and the AIs inability to normally handle finite resources games. I did not mean that your scenario/mod thingie wouldn't work. It could, as long as you built a lot of value improving facilities for the AIs when you set them up. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Otherwise, they will eventually die off from not having any more resource production. They do not know how to build enough value improvement plants to keep pace with their resource production. They do not know how to limit ship building when necessary to conserve resources. They do not know how to balance resource producing facilities with resource storage facilities. If you made allowances for this to compensate for the AI stupidity, then they could indeed be able to pose a challenge.

Edit:
And also, might I ask what this means (in the mod's readme):

Imperator Fryon for the inspiration of the Centurion Race and the copy of AICs CCC Image. 

[ February 22, 2003, 01:38: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

JLS

February 22nd, 2003, 03:54 AM

Originally posted by oleg:
First impression: Looks REALLY good ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

First comment: Designnames folder is empty. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif No big deal but anyway. It would be good to include into facility info how many research points Cultural centers generate.SE4 design names default to se4 dir. Although this is were I would like to put your races if you give me the go ahead.
Ahh, This is vague I know, esthetically I felt this was better to leave out some info however you can see the totals and devide the CCs, plus some other reasons in regards to capture� http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
Notice if you play a Specific Race you get some of there specific Culture Centers. In example Crystal Construction, Temporal Construction etc. which allows there specific structures. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ February 22, 2003, 02:06: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS

February 22nd, 2003, 04:02 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Imperator Fryon for the inspiration of the Centurion Race and the copy of AICs CCC Image. <hr /></blockquote>I was inspired by your Ancients Race that is how the Centurion Race was adopted http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

The Colonial Culture center PIC came from your Image Modpack http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[ February 22, 2003, 02:03: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron

February 22nd, 2003, 04:08 AM

SE4 design names default to se4 dir. Although this is were I would like to put your races if you give me the go ahead.If the designnames folder is existant and empty, SE4 will not see any design name files. It is one of those folders that SE4 will not look into the default folder to find files if there is a folder in the mod folder (like Pictures\Races (that folder, not subfolders of the folder)).

I was inspired by your Ancients Race that is how the Centurion Race was adopted Ummm... I see no Centurion race in the mod. Am I missing something?

By my Ancients Race, what exactly are you referencing? I am a little confused. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The Colonial Culture center PIC came from your Image Modpack It is not my image mod pack, though I do host a mirror for it. I guess that image did come from a submission I made to the Image Mod though (a submission of images borrowed from Birth of the Federation). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ February 22, 2003, 02:11: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

JLS

February 22nd, 2003, 04:34 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />SE4 design names default to se4 dir. Although this is were I would like to put your races if you give me the go ahead.If the designnames folder is existant and empty, SE4 will not see any design name files. It is one of those folders that SE4 will not look into the default folder to find files if there is a folder in the mod folder (like Pictures\Races (that folder, not subfolders of the folder)).<hr /></blockquote>~Well, the other races design names are in the game, I just loaded my save game and they are coming from se4 default In regards to the AI Player. In regards to Human Players we name them our self�s (At least we do)... When you meet a race in your game you will see... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~When you play a few games you will be understand the Centurion race better. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
~~~~~~~~~~
By my Ancients Race, what exactly are you referencing? I am a little confused. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif [QUOTE]

~No matter, but thanks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It is not my image mod pack, though I do host a mirror for it. I guess that image did come from a submission I made to the Image Mod though (a submission of images borrowed from Birth of the Federation). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ~ Again I thank you and I will give thanks to the Birth of the Federation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ February 22, 2003, 02:40: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron

February 22nd, 2003, 04:45 AM

Ok... maybe SE4 ignores empty folders. But, try putting a few files in there, and see what happens. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

JLS

February 22nd, 2003, 05:01 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Ok... maybe SE4 ignores empty folders. But, try putting a few files in there, and see what happens. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Thanks for the tip, the next release will have a full Complement with new race types. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Fyron

February 22nd, 2003, 05:07 AM

I could upload my design names folder (later). It has tons and tons of files gathered over the years, though it would be credit less.

JLS

February 22nd, 2003, 05:10 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
I could upload my design names folder (later). It has tons and tons of files gathered over the years, though it would be credit less.SURE, THANKS !!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Nodachi

February 22nd, 2003, 06:24 AM

I've been giving your mod a try, so far so good! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

However, that is not the reason for this post.
In the future please refrain from sending e-mails announcing that your mod is availible. This forum is generally good natured but if you spam people http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif watch out for the fallout.

Please consider this a friendly warning. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

QBrigid

February 22nd, 2003, 06:33 AM

I've been playing the MOD, pretty good, so far. Thanks for the heads up, I would not have checked the Boards tonight if you hadn't sent an email--- and I'm off tomorrow!

Suicide Junkie

February 22nd, 2003, 07:49 AM

Ok, how do I go about creating a colony ship when the colony module is more than 10x the size of the colony hull, and there aren't any colony module mounts?

Nodachi

February 22nd, 2003, 07:56 AM

The colony ship hull has it built in.

Lord Kodos

February 22nd, 2003, 08:15 AM

Sure ill test it out soon as my gold Version arrives...

BTW, you may want to send your images in to Suicide Junkies image mod, if you have not already done so.

It saves time on the download, which, if you upload all the DSGNNAMES files, will definately be appreciated.

Cant wait to try it out.

Fyron

February 22nd, 2003, 01:00 PM

Ok... here is a collection of 156 design names files that I have gathered over the years. I know there are more out there that are not in this zip, but oh well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I am not even going to think about trying to make a credits listing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

156 Design Names Files.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1045911522.zip)

oleg

February 22nd, 2003, 01:34 PM

System Gravitational Shield facility is unavailable to human players - it requires human tech. level 2, but only level 1 exist http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Is it by design or mistake (I hope for later !)

Still can not figure out is it better to play finite or infinite resources.

JLS

February 22nd, 2003, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by oleg:
I have an impression that Religious tech is too weak now. Nature shrine must be level 3 to get any resource improvements and it is 1% only, best Talisman is just 20% bonus http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Well, it may be a good idea to get rid of "always hit" but why not add few more levels to reach, for example, 50% at very high research expence ?Nature Shrine (I-III)
Planet Conditions Change � System (1-2-3) unchanged
Planet Value Change � System (was lowered to One; it was very powerful).
Base se4 Talisman :
Some complaints are that it is to large 50 kt and does not fit well on small ships.
Most complain it always allows the ships full weapon complement to hit!

Since it is encouraged to have many small combat ships in your fleet this is why the KT was lowered to 10 and I agree with you 50% is a good to figure� Since Combat sensors and Talisman stack; for example a base Destroyer with talisman 4 and level 5 sensors hit at 53%. With even higher level combat sensors the Talisman combination nears 80 percent hits so there is a slight chance of a miss.

In the LAN group before the Religious changes about 70% plus would pick religious as a secondary trait in 3000 to 5000 point games. Now with the above changes about 20 to 30% take it and swear by it still.

As a test, it seems to be successful here, in our LAN Group. The benefit of stack Combat sensors on smaller ships and still having some punch and addressing the 100% percent to hit complaints.

Yes, the debate continues here still and the guys that use Religious are the first to come to the defense of the new changes.

PS: There is some wiggle room of 15 to 20 added to Hit, but now were nearing the possibility of exceeding 100%.

[ February 22, 2003, 13:48: Message edited by: JLS ]

oleg

February 22nd, 2003, 03:45 PM

I don't like new fighter weapons, Armed Cockpit and Turret guns. I don't like them at all.
When fighter with 1 AC and 2 TG fires on stack of fighters it can kill 2-3 in one shot ! Even if targets have shield. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif I think it is overkill. It is just does not sound right. Also, it is often to have 1-2 spaces left on fighters, Why not to reinstall small armour for fighters ?

The idea of combat-only movement is a good one IMHO.

oleg

February 22nd, 2003, 04:40 PM

Small rocket pods, small parasite and few other fighter weapons use the same family number (2508) It cause mighty confusion during upgrade and not all weapons are listed when you use "only latest" view option.

JLS

February 22nd, 2003, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by oleg:
I don't like new fighter weapons, Armed Cockpit and Turret guns. I don't like them at all.
When fighter with 1 AC and 2 TG fires on stack of fighters it can kill 2-3 in one shot ! Even if targets have shield. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif I think it is overkill. It is just does not sound right. Also, it is often to have 1-2 spaces left on fighters, Why not to reinstall small armour for fighters ?

The idea of combat-only movement is a good one IMHO.Thanks for the endorsement of Tactical Combat movement. This is a good starting point http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

In regards to Armed Cockpit and Turret guns these are optional weapons of choice, and they make a good addition to Interceptors and Fighter-Bombers.

In regards to Air to Air fighter Combat if you have 4 carriers loaded per side ( a few escorts optional) with a good combination varieties.

Some examples:
20% small Interceptors: Cock Pit with Bow Cannon, 2 Turret guns, engines with after-burners and a combat sensor.

30% small Fighter-Bomber: Cock Pit with Bow Cannon, 1 turret gun, 1 multi purpose weapon beam and a combat sensor. No after-burners.

20% medium Fighter-Bomber: Same as above with no turret gun but add a shield and ECM.

20% medium Fighter-Bomber: Same as above loose shield and add rockets or (racial) Torpedoes. Note Anti-Mater Torpedoes are different from others. All torpedoes are primarily anti-ship weapons.

10% large Torpedo Bomber: Same as F-B but include a shield.

Please add the above combination and percentages to your Simulation test with 4 or more carriers full for each side or Carriers vs. Planet with about half as much of the other sides in intercepters Fighters. Should make for an enjoyable show.

Note: Cluster Bombers are for a bombing planets and the unarmed cockpit is so it will not to engage in Air to Air. Optional Cock pit choice for a Kamikaze fighter.

Yes, the Point defense is about half that of a ships level 3 Point-Defense; on the Fighters Bow Cannon and less then half for the Turret guns. These values used to be less but the general consensus was to better the attack on Satellites with a little more bloodier fighter duals.

The main purpose different values, is to scale down the effects of fighters versus ships , considering both offensive and defensive stacking. So if we lower beam weapons to benefit Ships now we need to deal with shooting down fighters and Satellites so that gave rise to the Bow and Turret guns which is just basically point-defense. The same applies to armor in regards to defensive stacking. But armor might be back in the next Version.

All these weapons values are changeable put the premise above is still some what true.

TACTICAL FIGHTER MOD is still in it infancy and will start to make more sense with play and some positive changes, so we can make this better for the next release.

[ February 22, 2003, 15:08: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS

February 22nd, 2003, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by oleg:
Small rocket pods, small parasite and few other fighter weapons use the same family number (2508) It cause mighty confusion during upgrade and not all weapons are listed when you use "only latest" view option.Thanks for pointing that out in regards to multiple racial choice and families, we play tested Fighter Tactical interface for the Last few weeks in 2000 point setups where only one race trait is usually chosen by us and that�s how this got thru.

Many thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif and Consider it changed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ February 22, 2003, 15:17: Message edited by: JLS ]

oleg

February 22nd, 2003, 05:39 PM

There was an idea circulating long time ago but never implemented - give AI a starting atmosphere converter. It should be available from the start to AI, upgradable to "normal" converters and require immense amount of time to convert atmosphere - for example 200 turns. AI constr_facil. file should have it as a first entry for all colonies. It should fix the problem that AI never scrap facilities and for example once it builds 3 mineral miners on domed medium planet it will never scrap one in favor of atm. converter. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

This mod is the first one with dedicated AI tech and should take care of this problem !

JLS

February 22nd, 2003, 05:44 PM

Advanced Design Engineering

Allows the human player some Components that the AI player can�t possibly use yet or is at a disadvantage if you gave it to them� Mostly for AI Balance.
Some examples are:
Drop tanks for fighters so they can patrol a sector longer.
SPACE YARD Ships (the AI is at a real disadvantage here)
Ships Repair Bay Compartment (mostly AI logistics)
Cargo and Supply Niche
Cargo and Supply Compartment
Base Maneuver Thrusters (not recommended for early bases and kept to 1 combat move, so it will not move to soon from the planets protection in simu games). To name a few.
~Hardened Life Support.
~Combat Bridge
~Combat Aux Control
~Represents the research invested to towards the ultimate war ship.

JLS

February 22nd, 2003, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by oleg:
There was an idea circulating long time ago but never implemented - give AI a starting atmosphere converter. It should be available from the start to AI, upgradable to "normal" converters and require immense amount of time to convert atmosphere - for example 200 turns. AI constr_facil. file should have it as a first entry for all colonies. It should fix the problem that AI never scrap facilities and for example once it builds 3 mineral miners on domed medium planet it will never scrap one in favor of atm. converter. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

This mod is the first one with dedicated AI tech and should take care of this problem !Yes, I had tested that ability and it does work good; as well as some others, mainly on the AIs Primary Culture Center and they worked as fine until a HUMAN players captures the Planet or worse the home world. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

However, the AI keeps up really good with Resources in AI Campaign; after a few hundred turns you will see that their doing just dandy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ February 22, 2003, 16:05: Message edited by: JLS ]

Suicide Junkie

February 22nd, 2003, 06:24 PM

There is no need for Colony Modules on Colony ships. (Prevents fast colonizers)
Type Colony ships is now selected from the ship SIZE drop down menu in Create.I would suggest that the colony module component state in its description and/or abilities that it is not required on a colony ship.

I don't quite see what you mean by "preventing fast colonizers"
If you don't want Cruisers carrying colony modules you could either use a colonyship-only mount, or increase the "size" of the colony ship.

Also, you can't use a colony module on a base, since bases have no movement. You need at least 1 MP to land a colony, and even emergency propulsion pods won't help if you've got no movement points to start with.

Argh.
Maybe I'm just too used to QNP, but these engine limits are really annoying. I got all this free space, and I wanna go faster! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

PS:
Your supply storage bays are a little odd (just like unmodded SE4, in fact). They are twice the size of an engine, yet hold only 20% more supplies.
My engineers need a smack upside the head if they can't figure out that they could just cut off the thruster part of an engine, and fit two or three in the space of one supply tank.

PPS:
For the "Small Arms I" troop weapons, the description says "+5 to hit", while the ability says +10.

Design Type "Armored Vehical" should be "Vehicle"

[ February 22, 2003, 16:46: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

JLS

February 22nd, 2003, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by JLS:
[QUOTE]ability and it does work good; as well as some others, mainly on the AIs Primary Culture Center and they worked as fine until a HUMAN players captures the Planet or worse the home world. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

However, the AI keeps up really good with Resources in AI Campaign; after a few hundred turns you will see that their doing just dandy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Speaking of testing abilities on the AIs culture centers, I tried (Resource Reclamation at 200) several months ago and the AI had never dropped in the Negative net resources even when I scraped all but one Culture Center putting the AI in a 4000 maintenance deficit and he never scraped a single ship although he could not build anything new. Sounded good to me, for a worse case AI scenario; until the next mourning when I realized that if captured by a Human Player it could facilitate an neat enterprise of building ships and then scraping them for near 100% Profit. Thats when I took another look at the AIs specific facilities http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Suicide Junkie

February 22nd, 2003, 06:56 PM

Also, the Basic lifesupport component claims "not built to withstand battle damage" and has only 1 hitpoint.

That will almost ensure that the lifesupport is the LAST component destroyed. If it had an armor ability, it would be the first to go, though.

The 20% defense penalty forever seems a pretty harsh effect for just going cheap on the lifesupport.

I'd reccommend having something like +50% defense on lifesupport (with -50% on all hulls to cancel it out).
The ship would operate normally until it gets hit, and loses its ability to dodge when the crew all die from lack of the support systems.

JLS

February 22nd, 2003, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
[QB][QUOTE]Your supply storage bays are a little odd (just like unmodded SE4, in fact). They are twice the size of an engine, yet hold only 20% more supplies.
My engineers need a smack upside the head if they can't figure out that they could just cut off the thruster part of an engine, and fit two or three in the space of one supply tank.http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Yes, I agree with you here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Looks like a good change for the next Version.
~~~
PPS:
For the "Small Arms I" troop weapons, the description says "+5 to hit", while the ability says +10. Design Type "Armored Vehical" should be "Vehicle".

~Thanks I will fix that typo http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

Suicide Junkie

February 22nd, 2003, 07:12 PM

It also seems like a lot of your weapons
(including DUC and defense cannons) have the to-hit notes in the small-font description instead of the bullet-point Ability descriptions.

Merely an interface issue, but I think it would be nice to have it listed as an ability in bright white text.

Small transport ability says "Size and lack of agility result in a 50% to hit modifier"
It dosen't mention whether that is positive, or negative, and dosen't say whether it affects offense or defense or both.

[ February 22, 2003, 17:20: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

JLS

February 22nd, 2003, 07:18 PM

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Also, the Basic lifesupport component claims "not built to withstand battle damage" and has only 1 hitpoint.

The 20% defense penalty forever seems a pretty harsh effect for just going cheap on the lifesupport.The Basic life support is cheap and faster to build and fits well with Transports, starliners and other none combat ships and bases. I feel -20% is justified. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif However thanks for the Tip how dos this sound for the "Description := Mechanical means to generate a livable atmosphere on a starship. This component is not built for compactness and will not be an asset in a battle; but is less difficult to manufacture".

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Wow SJ thanks for the help http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ February 22, 2003, 17:44: Message edited by: JLS ]

Suicide Junkie

February 22nd, 2003, 07:26 PM

I do agree that non-combatant ships should have a large negative combat modifier, but I just don't think the lifesupport should make any difference in combat ability (until its destroyed, at least)

Does the civilian grade lifesupport system fail to pump stimulant drugs into the air when the ship goes to battlestations or something? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

JLS

February 22nd, 2003, 07:32 PM

Regarding description and other text spelling, grammar even content and possible lack there of has to be looked at still.

My first goal was get the package to work, test it as extensive as possible and then release it� To correct all the text needed prior to releasing this first Version would of required another month of testing to check for any inadvertent collateral data change.

I must say the Last few weeks, I have had a strong desire to release it even with the Tactical Fighter Mod still in beta.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ February 22, 2003, 17:32: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS

February 22nd, 2003, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Does the civilian grade lifesupport system fail to pump stimulant drugs into the air when the ship goes to battlestations or something? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I Like It

Suicide Junkie

February 22nd, 2003, 07:43 PM

So, do you want spelling/content/etc reports made anyways, or should they be ignored to keep this thread shorter?

In "Population Life Support Module",
you have "Combat To Hit Defense Minus" listed twice as abilities.
I reccommend finding a single ability to use for comments, and keep all of the abilities with effects strictly for that purpose.
"Star - Unstable" works quite well for that purpose.
Stating clearly that it gives a -100% to defense would be useful. Due to the way SE4 combat modifiers add, the exact value could be important.

In fact, I think I'm going to double check my own mod for any abilities that don't have exact details...

JLS

February 22nd, 2003, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
So, do you want spelling/content/etc reports made anyways, or should they be ignored to keep this thread shorter?

In "Population Life Support Module",
you have "Combat To Hit Defense Minus" listed twice as abilities.
I reccommend finding a single ability to use for comments, and keep all of the abilities with effects strictly for that purpose.
"Star - Unstable" works quite well for that purpose.
Stating clearly that it gives a -100% to defense would be useful. Due to the way SE4 combat modifiers add, the exact value could be important.

In fact, I think I'm going to double check my own mod for any abilities that don't have exact details...No, no Keep them coming Please... I was just explaining why did not get the text done sooner.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Truly I want the help and the advise.

JLS

February 22nd, 2003, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
In "Population Life Support Module",
you have "Combat To Hit Defense Minus" listed twice as abilities.
I reccommend finding a single ability to use for comments, and keep all of the abilities with effects strictly for that purpose.
"Star - Unstable" works quite well for that purpose.
Stating clearly that it gives a -100% to defense would be useful. Due to the way SE4 combat modifiers add, the exact value could be important. In fact, I think I'm going to double check my own mod for any abilities that don't have exact details...http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Your right! opps, I�m on it, consider it done!

[ February 23, 2003, 17:45: Message edited by: JLS ]

Suicide Junkie

February 22nd, 2003, 07:56 PM

I notice you have "Double Damage To Shields" as the damage type of the Antiproton beam.

Since it is antimatter, it interacts almost normally with energy fields, but will annihilate matter, such as armor or your hull.
With that in mind, I reccommend using "Quarter damage to shields" and pumping up the damage by 2 to 4 times.

Suicide Junkie

February 22nd, 2003, 08:04 PM

IIRC, for the long range scanners, I believe an ability value of 1 allows you to only scan objects in the same sector as you, making it pretty wimpy, and making the description of "scans ships one sector away" a bit misleading.

Quantum reactors, and in fact supply storage of any sort is useless on satellites. Best not to clutter the sat design window with those components.

I am also curious as to why in the world so many components have cargo storage values close to 2, when they do not seem to relate in any way to cargo storage.
If you only want them to count as cargo for the design restrictions, you can set the amount to zero, and they will still work. You just need the cargo ability.

"Ability 1 Descr := Can launch and recover satellite Domes from space. One satellite Dome can be launched per game turn."
One satellite Dome per turn, or just one satellite? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ February 22, 2003, 18:07: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

JLS

February 22nd, 2003, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
I notice you have "Double Damage To Shields" as the damage type of the Antiproton beam.

Since it is antimatter, it interacts almost normally with energy fields, but will annihilate matter, such as armor or your hull.
With that in mind, I reccommend using "Quarter damage to shields" and pumping up the damage by 2 to 4 times.You are referring to the Small Anti - Proton Beam for the fighters.

Thanks, I will give 'Quarter damage to shields' a test.

Suicide Junkie

February 22nd, 2003, 08:18 PM

Sorting your components by type in components.txt would be nice as well; you've currently got WP armor at the top of the file, and AFV armor at the bottom.
That makes the location of armor in the design screen inconsistent between vehicle types.

If you arrange things so that components are always in the same order between bases, ships, troops, etc it makes designing things easier and faster. Placing similar categories together can't hurt either, such as shields being placed right beside the armor.

RE: Ionic Shield Generators.
Regular shields provide protection against engine destroying weapons as of the latest patch, so these aren't really required anymore. They could be abused as armor components, given their huge hitpoints and low cost.

Re: Small arms troop weapons.
They all have incorrect accuracy modifiers, not just the first one.

Re: Heavy weapons (troops).
They have the accuracy ability descriptions accurate, but fail to mention the accuracy bonus for just that component.
IE: Weapon Modifier := 20

[ February 22, 2003, 18:24: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

JLS

February 23rd, 2003, 02:06 AM

Originally posted by oleg:
System Gravitational Shield facility is unavailable to human players - it requires human tech. level 2, but only level 1 exist http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Still can not figure out is it better to play finite or infinite resources.Thanks, Oleg it is a TYPO and consider it corrected.

JLS

February 23rd, 2003, 02:08 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Ok... here is a collection of 156 design names files
156 Design Names Files.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1045911522.zip)Thanks, getting them now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

JLS

February 23rd, 2003, 02:11 AM

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Ok, how do I go about creating a colony ship when the colony module is more than 10x the size of the colony hull, and there aren't any colony module mounts?There is no need for Colony Modules on Colony ships. (Prevents fast colonizers)
Type Colony ships is now selected from the ship SIZE drop down menu in Create.
~
A Colony Module is furnished and this could be used by some early Base strategies and late game Base ship options. Colony ships have differant tonage i.e. Rock 105, Ice 106 and Gas 107 this is for human player drop out purpases in a multiplayer game.
~
Thanks SJ. I amplified the text for the colonizer in Vehicle File and the Base Design Module in the components file...

[ February 22, 2003, 12:21: Message edited by: JLS ]

oleg

February 23rd, 2003, 02:18 AM

I have an impression that Religious tech is too weak now. Nature shrine must be level 3 to get any resource improvements and it is 1% only, best Talisman is just 20% bonus http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Well, it may be a good idea to get rid of "always hit" but why not add few more levels to reach, for example, 50% at very high research expence ?

oleg

February 23rd, 2003, 05:55 AM

Originally posted by JLS:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
I notice you have "Double Damage To Shields" as the damage type of the Antiproton beam.

Since it is antimatter, it interacts almost normally with energy fields, but will annihilate matter, such as armor or your hull.
With that in mind, I reccommend using "Quarter damage to shields" and pumping up the damage by 2 to 4 times.You are referring to the Small Anti - Proton Beam for the fighters.

Thanks, I will give 'Quarter damage to shields' a test.<hr /></blockquote>I think 4X damage to shields should remain a unique feature of Temoral Tech !!

oleg

February 23rd, 2003, 05:59 AM

Are you sure Gestation vats work as you intended ?
30% bonus to GV 3 does _not_ increase reproduction by 30%, it gives reproduction rate of 30%. Thus if you have normal reproduction on your homeworld of 15%, with GV3 it will become 45% New homeworld in few years !!!

[ February 23, 2003, 04:00: Message edited by: oleg ]

Phoenix-D

February 23rd, 2003, 06:07 AM

"I think 4X damage to shields should remain a unique feature of Temoral Tech !!"

They're talking about quarter damage to shields. As in, 1/4, not 4. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

oleg

February 23rd, 2003, 09:57 AM

What AI bonus suppose to be ?? I'm playing with medium bonus now and got mighty deppresed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

JLS

February 23rd, 2003, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by oleg:
What AI bonus suppose to be ?? I'm playing with medium bonus now and got mighty deppresed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif Oleg, what do you mean by AI Bonus ? When you say your playing med bonus I assume you took Just the top human player trait.
Currant human Player options are from Traits Menu:
-
-
TOP: *Human Player MUST SELECT here first* Description :=This choice alone delivers a moderate game. Human Player may mix options below.
-
1: Human Player Opt 1
Description := Add for Easiest level: Increased Production and Point Bonus.
-
2: Human Player Opt 2 Description := Add for Easy (Do Not use with Finite Games): Higher Proportions of Resources.
-
3: Human Player Opt 3
Description := Moderate: Human players MAY take this for a game requiring more logistics.
-
4: Human Player Opt 4
Hard: Human players MAY take this for 20% less recourses.
-
Above options may be mixed for your enjoyment. NOTE: BE sure to take at least *Human Player MUST SELECT*
~~~~~~~~~~
Oleg, Just the top selection will give you a moderate game , as is stated. With your experience you could take this choice. Option 1 and option 2 are for easy to extremely easy games.
What trait setup did you use, did you pick any Human Player options? How many AI players are in your game? What turn are you in, if you choose just a moderate game (TOP Only) and you are for example:
Less then 100 turns I doubt you could be ahead of the AI Players and just starting to pass the AI neutrals by then. By about turn 150 to 200 you should start moving towards the middle of the AI Player pack. Depending how many AI Players (game menu/players) are in your game you may never get to First place. Note: AI players not Nuetral players.
Of course this is subject to many Variables. In example: Who is at war, What strategic state the AI may be in at the time you checked the score, does the gas AI have Gas planets near, is your exploration halted by a stubborn or Violent AI, etc. If you had a poor random startup give it another start!

Will this be the prozac for your depression? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif If there is another issue, let me know by post or email.
~
Guys, if you want a basic Moderate player game just take the top selection. (*Human Player MUST SELECT here first*); Description :=This choice alone delivers a moderate game.

I hope you did not pick the AI choices by accident...

However, do not choose :
AI 1 thru 4
Description := !ONLY AI SHOULD TO TAKE THIS TRAIT! Gives AI Balance Tech
Or
NEU
Description := !ONLY AI SHOULD TO TAKE THIS TRAIT! For Neutral AI Pre-Game Point Set up.

Excerpt from AIC Readme; �Now pick any racial traits that you desire. MP Level ladder Handicap choices are generally for Multiplayer games. In addition, take note that (AI 1 thru 4)! ONLY AI SHOULD TO TAKE THIS TRAIT! Please do not choose this, unless you want to get some funky results�.

[ February 23, 2003, 18:38: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS

February 23rd, 2003, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
"I think 4X damage to shields should remain a unique feature of Temoral Tech !!"

They're talking about quarter damage to shields. As in, 1/4, not 4. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-DI also agree and TEMPORALS are absolutely the only race that has "Quad Damage To Shields" in AIC Campaign

[ February 23, 2003, 14:14: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS

February 23rd, 2003, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by oleg:
Are you sure Gestation vats work as you intended ?
30% bonus to GV 3 does _not_ increase reproduction by 30%, it gives reproduction rate of 30%. Thus if you have normal reproduction on your homeworld of 15%, with GV3 it will become 45% New homeworld in few years !!!Gestation vats

This may be high but please help me with the math.

AI Campaign:
Gestation vats III ; Organic Technology 6
Modify Reproduction � System :=30
Reproduction Check Frequency := 10 (every 10 turns)
Empire Starting Percent Reproduction := 11 (Base Settings)
Starting colony: 1 POP
Poulation increase every 10 turns

It may take a centuries to get it up to Homeworld populations, not a few years as you stated. (1 year equals 10 turns)
~
Now lets take a look at stock SE4:
Replicant Center III: Organic Technology 6
Change Population � System := 40
Empire Starting Percent Reproduction := 11 (Base Settings)
Starting colony: 1 POP
Populations in this system will increase by 40M per turn
=
Which will reach a higher population in a few years ?

-----------------
We know that a higher population equals a higher production rate.
I felt a per turn increased in a mod that enjoys the a Population mass of 1000 is to great a stress on any non organic races, so by increasing Modify Reproduction to greater value the organics will still benefit from there cultural ways.

So Replicant Center in this release is not in play, but a the large bonus that we discussed above was added to Gestation vats to offset. The Organic weapons tech is also lowered 25% (easier) start research to that of Crystal Weapons (relatively) to what you might be used to.

This is my intent http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ February 23, 2003, 17:04: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS

February 23rd, 2003, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Sorting your components by type in components.txt would be nice as well; you've currently got WP armor at the top of the file, and AFV armor at the bottom.
That makes the location of armor in the design screen inconsistent between vehicle types.

RE: Ionic Shield Generators.
Regular shields provide protection against engine destroying weapons as of the latest patch, so these aren't really required anymore. They could be abused as armor components, given their huge hitpoints and low cost.

Re: Small arms troop weapons.

Re: Heavy weapons (troops)."RE: Ionic Shield Generators".

History: Version 1.70: 7. Changed - Engine Damaging Weapons no longer skip shields.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Again thanks, this is good advise! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .
~
"RE:Sorting your components by type in components.txt Re: Small arms troop weapons".

Absolutely housekeeping on the Text file descriptions are in order. I probably will be vague still on AI specific component and facility abilities still as to add a little in Game mystery for the players that don�t want to peak at the Data files http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ February 23, 2003, 16:59: Message edited by: JLS ]

oleg

February 24th, 2003, 01:06 AM

Originally posted by JLS:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by oleg:
Are you sure Gestation vats work as you intended ?
30% bonus to GV 3 does _not_ increase reproduction by 30%, it gives reproduction rate of 30%. Thus if you have normal reproduction on your homeworld of 15%, with GV3 it will become 45% New homeworld in few years !!!Gestation vats

This may be high but please help me with the math.

AI Campaign:
Gestation vats III ; Organic Technology 6
Modify Reproduction – System :=30
Reproduction Check Frequency := 10 (every 10 turns)
Empire Starting Percent Reproduction := 11 (Base Settings)
Starting colony: 1 POP
Poulation increase every 10 turns

It may take a centuries to get it up to Homeworld populations, not a few years as you stated. (1 year equals 10 turns)
~
Now lets take a look at stock SE4:
Replicant Center III: Organic Technology 6
Change Population – System := 40
Empire Starting Percent Reproduction := 11 (Base Settings)
Starting colony: 1 POP
Populations in this system will increase by 40M per turn
=
Which will reach a higher population in a few years ?

-----------------
We know that a higher population equals a higher production rate.
I felt a per turn increased in a mod that enjoys the a Population mass of 1000 is to great a stress on any non organic races, so by increasing Modify Reproduction to greater value the organics will still benefit from there cultural ways.

So Replicant Center in this release is not in play, but a the large bonus that we discussed above was added to Gestation vats to offset. The Organic weapons tech is also lowered 25% (easier) start research to that of Crystal Weapons (relatively) to what you might be used to.

This is my intent http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <hr /></blockquote>Hmm... Yes, removing of replicant centers makes 30% replication bonus reasonable. Now Organic races must build race-specific buildings in Home World system only for maximum benefits, reducing overall bonuses of Organic race. Yes, the numbers make sense. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

oleg

February 24th, 2003, 01:13 AM

Originally posted by JLS:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by oleg:
What AI bonus suppose to be ?? I'm playing with medium bonus now and got mighty deppresed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif Oleg, what do you mean by AI Bonus ? When you say your playing med bonus I assume you took Just the top human player trait.
-
-
<hr /></blockquote>I meant the AI bonuses from race start-up menu: medium is the one that gives AI 3X for production/research/construction. My estimate is that without any bonuses AIC AI have about 60% edge over humans. With medium Ai bonuses it translates into "high AI bonus" (5X )in normal SE.

For myself I took "medium difficulty" (penalty for supply) and "supply geezers" (30% supply penalty) The gameplay remainds me our current space exploration status: Mars expedition uses all oil reserves http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ February 23, 2003, 23:17: Message edited by: oleg ]

oleg

February 24th, 2003, 01:30 AM

Still, I have grave reservations about Armed cockpit/turret cannons. Missiles are already useless in late game. Now with fighters shhoting down seekers... I just don't know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

I understand that you tried to give variety to fighters design - intersepters, bombers, etc. But in fact you reduce it ! All players, regardless of race set-up, are forced to produce hordes of identical interceptors. There is no variety in anti-fighter design whatsoever ! I might be wrong, but whoever has more 1AC+2TC interceptors will win all fighter battles. This is just my first impressions of course, did't have much time to test it.
____

Description of Atmosphere converter III should list 10 years, not 105 ! I almost freaked out looking on it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ February 23, 2003, 23:32: Message edited by: oleg ]

JLS

February 24th, 2003, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by oleg:Now Organic races must build race-specific buildings in Home World system only for maximum benefits, reducing overall bonuses of Organic race. Yes, the numbers make sense. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif True, as with most race-specific buildings in the Home Worlds system for maximum benefits. Except the word Only may not apply.
Clearly all the Organic facilities and most other race-specific facilities will greatly enhance Systems out side home: Gestation Vats will multiply population much faster then a non organic race.
Medical Labs will help prevent plagues and in general keep the population happier.

To name a few.

[ February 24, 2003, 13:42: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS

February 24th, 2003, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by oleg:
AI bonuses from race start-up menu: medium is the one that gives AI 3X for production/research/construction. My estimate is that without any bonuses AIC AI have about 60% edge over humans. With medium Ai bonuses it translates into "high AI bonus" (5X )in normal SE.I assume you are referring to the Computer Player Bonus. New Game/Game Setup Menu; Bottom Right. (non, low, med, high)
I encourage you to test this; it currently may have none to very little effect on AI long term.
Also notice that the time for the AI to build a Colony Ship or any Vessel is the same regardless of the Computer Player Bonus.

We usually play Computer Player Bonus at its default (none).

However you have a good Point. Future MM upgrades will have to be recognized.

[ February 24, 2003, 14:30: Message edited by: JLS ]

oleg

February 24th, 2003, 04:41 PM

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

You mean it is designed to have a challenging AI opponent when played with "none" bonus !!???

And I tried it with "medium"...

AFAIK, you are wrong about bonus effect on ship building : "bonus" multiplies production, research AND construction rate by a factor of 2(low), 3(medium) and 5(high).

Even if AI homeworld build cheap ships one per turn, what about base space yards ? The also receive construction bonuses.

JLS

February 24th, 2003, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by oleg:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

You mean it is designed to have a challenging AI opponent when played with "none" bonus !!???

And I tried it with "medium"...

AFAIK, you are wrong about bonus effect on ship building : "bonus" multiplies production, research AND construction rate by a factor of 2(low), 3(medium) and 5(high).

Even if AI homeworld build cheap ships one per turn, what about base space yards ? The also receive construction bonuses.If referring to the Computer Player Bonus. New Game/Game Setup Menu; Bottom Right. (non, low, med, high)
I encourage you to test this; The effect on AI long term.

Yes, We usually play Computer Player Bonus at its default (none)...

However if you feel the AI needs to get an additional boost, then by your means, go for it. But it may just hurt the AI in Finite Games!

But it is best to start AI Campaign with defaults, (finite on or off optional), to see what its about.
At default the AI will build gradual as the Designer intended with the Vehicle Construction files. The non default setting you are referring to also does not directly help the AI in other Abilities that AI Campaign is accomplishing. Some examples are: the AI better handles mines now, point to point re-supply, faster ship training, sector scanning, Stellar manipulations, combating Plagues, low level Master Computers to name a few.

JLS

February 24th, 2003, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by oleg:
Still, I have grave reservations about Armed cockpit/turret cannons. Missiles are already useless in late game. Now with fighters shhoting down seekers... I just don't know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

I understand that you tried to give variety to fighters design - intersepters, bombers, etc. But in fact you reduce it ! All players, regardless of race set-up, are forced to produce hordes of identical interceptors. There is no variety in anti-fighter design whatsoever ! I might be wrong, but whoever has more 1AC+2TC interceptors will win all fighter battles. This is just my first impressions of course, did't have much time to test it.
____

Description of Atmosphere converter III should list 10 years, not 105 ! I almost freaked out looking on it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif RE:This is just my first impressions of course, did't have much time to test it".
~
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Believe me, I do appreciate you taking the time to test and to help with this. The TACTICAL FIGHTER MOD is new to AIC and is in its infancy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
_______
Re:Description of Atmosphere converter III".
~
Absolutely, I am working on the housekeeping now as we speak http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ February 24, 2003, 15:39: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS

February 24th, 2003, 09:30 PM

Revised the Items that were posted by Oleg and Suicide Junkie and Mail.

I am Testing patch now and will be available Wednesday PM./Edit: End of week.
The Patch will Not break existing games!
___________
1: System Gravitational Shield facility (human tech 2 to 1)
2: Nature Shrine weak (enhanced slightly)
3: Fighter Torpedo Weapon Families (different families)
4: Tweaked AI to better utilize Computer Players Bonus options!
Thanks Oleg http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
~~~~
5: "Population Life Support Module�, "CDM" listed twice as abilities.
6: Ionic Shield Generators (Obsolete)
7: Removed Cargo of 2 from most Components!
Thanks SJ http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
~~~~
8: Lowered Point-Defense on the Turret Cannon.
9: Added higher Levels to Talisman tops at 50%
Thanks Oleg and Emails http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
10: Space Yard Facility cost lowered substantially. Inline with SE4 Base.
11: Research increased slightly for Communities and Cities.
12: Revised Pre-reqs for Recourse Sats.
13: Added Organic Replicant Center
14: Resource Dome Compartment (reduced space taken)
Many Thanks Mailers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Tidying up many descriptions.

Thanks for the E-Mails, Keep them coming!
Sullivan_JohnL@msn.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I really would like more of your input on The Tactical Fighter Mod, Please�.
Concept?
Weapons?
Armed Cockpit (Point-Defense)
Turreted Cannon (Point-Defense)

I would be grateful, thanks.

[ February 26, 2003, 21:50: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron

February 24th, 2003, 10:17 PM

AFAIK, you are wrong about bonus effect on ship building : "bonus" multiplies production, research AND construction rate by a factor of 2(low), 3(medium) and 5(high).AI bonus givs 2x, 3x, 5x multiplier for resources. It also gives 1.5x, 2x, 3x multiplier for SY rates for the AIs.

JLS

February 24th, 2003, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />AFAIK, you are wrong about bonus effect on ship building : "bonus" multiplies production, research AND construction rate by a factor of 2(low), 3(medium) and 5(high).AI bonus givs 2x, 3x, 5x multiplier for resources. It also gives 1.5x, 2x, 3x multiplier for SY rates for the AIs.<hr /></blockquote>If referring to the Computer Player Bonus. New Game/Game Setup Menu; Bottom Right. (non, low, med, high)

Yes, We usually play Computer Player Bonus at its default (none)...

~But it is best to start AI Campaign with defaults, (finite on or off optional), to see what its about.
At default the AI will build gradual as the Designer intended with the Vehicle Construction files. The non default setting you are referring to also does not directly help the AI in other Abilities that AI Campaign is accomplishing. Some examples are: the AI better handles mines now, point to point re-supply, faster ship training, sector scanning, Stellar manipulations, combating Plagues, low level Master Computers to name a few.

However if you feel the AI needs to get an additional boost, then by your means, go for it.
Although I don't expext it will.
It may just hurt the AI in Finite Games!

Thanks, John.

[ February 24, 2003, 20:45: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron

February 24th, 2003, 10:42 PM

Why did you repeat most of an earlier post? It has nothing to do with my post, except that you seemed confused as to what AI bonuses entailed. I was just confirming what Oleg said (well, not his values). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

JLS

February 24th, 2003, 10:47 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Why did you repeat most of an earlier post? It has nothing to do with my post, except that you seemed confused as to what AI bonuses entailed. I was just confirming what Oleg said (well, not his values). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I was repeating the reply I gave Oleg.

You do not think it is best to start AI Campaign with defaults, (finite on or off optional), to see what its about?
At default the AI will build gradual as the Designer intended with the Vehicle Construction files.

[ February 25, 2003, 13:16: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron

February 24th, 2003, 10:51 PM

I know what you repeated, I just can't see any point to doing that.

I voiced no opinion on how it would be best to start your mod. I merely addressed the issue of what the AI bonuses do.

JLS

February 24th, 2003, 11:00 PM

My apologies Imperator Fyron !!!!

I thought you were suggesting it was ok that new games add Computer Player Bonus to this Mod.

I wanted to explain to use the Default settings so The AI won�t be overbearing for new players to the Mod. As it may have been in Olegs game.

[ February 25, 2003, 13:28: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron

February 24th, 2003, 11:00 PM

No worries. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

JLS

February 24th, 2003, 11:02 PM

Kool http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ February 24, 2003, 21:04: Message edited by: JLS ]

oleg

February 25th, 2003, 03:32 PM

Well, however good is AI it still needs a bonus to stay in touch with human who has some idea what he is doing. Normally it is accomplished by selecting appropriate AI bonus when starting the game. In AIC mod, AI has a build-in bonus and can be played with "none" option. All by itself this is not a really important feature of the mod: if I can play , say Proportions with medium AI bonus for a challenge, why playing AST with "none" is any better ? In fact I found the AST gameplay very slow. I suggest to up human race trait a bit and aim at "low" AI bonus as a best option.

JLS

February 25th, 2003, 04:06 PM

Please explain how AST game play being very slow relates to AIC?

Why do you suggest to up human race trait a bit and aim at "low" AI bonus as a best option?

oleg

February 25th, 2003, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by JLS:
Please explain how AST game play being very slow relates to AIC?

Why do you suggest to up human race trait a bit and aim at "low" AI bonus as a best option?Oh dear... AST is a typo, I always mean AIC ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

It takes too long to reasearch any interesting technology in AIC. I would like it to be a little bit faster and also faster ship building. AI will need to do it faster too, that why I want low AI bonus. Nut may be I should just play with "low technology cost" ?

JLS

February 25th, 2003, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by oleg:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JLS:
Please explain how AST game play being very slow relates to AIC?

Why do you suggest to up human race trait a bit and aim at "low" AI bonus as a best option?Oh dear... AST is a typo, I always mean AIC ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

It takes too long to reasearch any interesting technology in AIC. I would like it to be a little bit faster and also faster ship building. AI will need to do it faster too, that why I want low AI bonus. Nut may be I should just play with "low technology cost" ?<hr /></blockquote>Not necessarily but you can play at "low technology cost", I admit, we also have in some face to face LAN games with many human players (+4 people), to speed things up a bit.
The research production from the Home World may be less then mod you play, but the starting research production in the AIC Home World is almost double that of SE4 base game and you can still add a couple more research facilities if a player wanted. So with most of the basic Tech cost the same and some lowered; early you should get thru low level techs as fast or faster when compared to the BASE SE4 game.

[ February 25, 2003, 15:40: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS

February 25th, 2003, 05:17 PM

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif WOW: OVER 74 downloads of AI Campiagn since Friday nights release! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ February 25, 2003, 17:36: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron

February 26th, 2003, 02:23 AM

If you write a shorter description for me, this can be placed on the Mods page on Malfador.com. It would be best to have shorter descriptions for all the mods with long ones, so I think I will set about shortening the longer ones soon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ February 26, 2003, 00:31: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

JLS

February 26th, 2003, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
If you write a shorter description for me, this can be placed on the Mods page on Malfador.com. It would be best to have shorter descriptions for all the mods with long ones, so I think I will set about shortening the longer ones soon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Thanks, Imperator Fyron I would like that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif sure I will condense the description and Email it to you �. I would like to have AIC knocked around for a little bit more by the Pros here on the forum; then test and Implement there suggestions for a while first.

[ February 26, 2003, 11:56: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron

February 26th, 2003, 01:54 PM

Actually, the mods list will have a link to the mod homepage. The mod is not actually hosted on Malfador.com.

JLS

February 26th, 2003, 11:55 PM

Below is what is being Tested for the first patch and will be available End of week.
The Patch will Not break existing games!
___________
1: System Gravitational Shield facility (human tech 2 to 1)
2: Nature Shrine weak (enhanced slightly)
3: Fighter Torpedo Weapon Families (different families)
4: Tweaked AI to better utilize Computer Players Bonus options!
Thanks Oleg http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
~~~~
5: "Population Life Support Module�, "CDM" listed twice as abilities.
6: Ionic Shield Generators (Obsolete)
7: Removed Cargo of 2 from most Components!
Thanks SJ http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
~~~~
8: Lowered Point-Defense on the Turret Cannon.
9: Added higher Levels to Talisman tops at 50%
Thanks Oleg and Emails http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
10: Space Yard Facility cost lowered substantially. Inline with SE4 Base.
11: Research increased slightly for Communities and Cities.
12: Revised Pre-reqs for Recourse Sats.
13: Added Organic Replicant Center
14: Resource Dome Compartment (reduced space taken)
15: Reduction in production for Lower level OutPosts, Stations and Organic Domes.
Many Thanks Mailers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Tidying up many descriptions.

Thanks for the E-Mails, Keep them coming!
Sullivan_JohnL@msn.com

oleg

February 27th, 2003, 12:30 AM

I still do not understand why you discarded the idea of AI-only build-in atmospheric converter. There is no danger humans can get this tech and the time it takes to convert atmosphere can be made close to the one we expect would require humans to research and utilize AC I Say, for example 300 turns ? Or even more if neccesary.

JLS

February 27th, 2003, 12:52 AM

Originally posted by oleg:
I still do not understand why you discarded the idea of AI-only build-in atmospheric converter. There is no danger humans can get this tech and the time it takes to convert atmosphere can be made close to the one we expect would require humans to research and utilize AC I Say, for example 300 turns ? Or even more if neccesary.I think your Idea of the atmospheric converter is a good one, I did not discard it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I am just concerned that some important AI specific facilities won�t change play balance if the planet is captured by a Human Player; in Human Multiplayer games. Actually I was thinking Last night that some Engineering races for example Praetorian and Toltayan even Possibly Norak could be directed on a fast track toward your suggestion!
What are your thoughts?

[ February 26, 2003, 22:58: Message edited by: JLS ]

oleg

February 27th, 2003, 02:07 AM

Well, suppose human capture a planet with such facility. So what ? It either would take years and years before atm. change (early-middle) game or human' atm. converter is likely to be researched and at most you save its construction cost. The key is to calculate the non-unbalancing conVersion time. Sorry, I don't know that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

JLS

February 27th, 2003, 02:15 AM

Originally posted by oleg:
Well, however good is AI it still needs a bonus to stay in touch with human who has some idea what he is doing. Normally it is accomplished by selecting appropriate AI bonus when starting the game. In AIC mod, AI has a build-in bonus and can be played with "none" option. Aim at "low" AI bonus as a best option.Agreed and thanks. I tested your suggestions, made some tweaks to the AI specifics and yes the AI does play better and gets tougher with; gradual steps in concert with Computer Player Bonus levels that the human player desires to set him/her self, within New Game Setup...

I am really impressed with the result and really; thanks again Oleg http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif
It will be release with patch.

[ February 26, 2003, 12:56: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS

February 27th, 2003, 02:36 AM

Originally posted by oleg:
The key is to calculate the non-unbalancing conVersion time. Sorry, I don't know that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif With Computer Player bonus set at None.
The AI resources nets starts to degrade well after 2000 turns for some, but really starts about 3000 to 4000 turns for most AI's. Degration depends on available planets for that AI to still colonize, what the AI Strategic State is or has been for that AI player at that specific time frame along with some other variables.
It usually starts with races that are not Resources oriented, for example the Eee AI, who does well by virtue of Research but after 2500 turns; Eee starts to drop from the leaders, this however doesn�t imply that the Eee will get exceptionally weak though. Eee, also uses Stellar manipulation quite well and if it gets the opportunity, may peacefully bounce back.

There are ways to retard degradation, by use of late and well timed AI Urban Center upgrades along with alternate Planet Colonization also lowered maintenance on there late high end ships is an option that I really am trying to stay away from, but is a viable late game throttle. Of course, all this would be after Extraction upgrades have been exhausted.
To name a few.

[ February 27, 2003, 05:44: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS

February 27th, 2003, 07:04 AM

Another draw back with a General AI-only build-in atmospheric converter would be that AI-Gas and to a lesser degree AI-Ice type races may be at a disadvantage since they may have less planets early, not realizing the numerical sudden facility impact as the AI-rock type races.

Our challenge as I see it, is to have the AI Player not too dynamic but more diverse.
In other words:
Eee relies on science hence stellar manipulations for its late growth.
Xiati is a schemer so we could get there settings and political files to pounce on there unsuspecting allied much weaker empire in more games.
Engineer races to exploit Planetary Utilization for there late gains.
Merchants and Politicians to some degree, to stay with growth curb thru trade (Political Savvy=high) so as they and there partners grow they all share in that growth.
Violent races take what they want when they want and more when needed.
Xenos purge and re-colonize.

Suggestions and elaborations on above examples are encouraged.
~
There are other race culture types that require a doctrine as well.

What about Zealots, Artisans and Renegades what kind of doctrine should we assign them.

[ February 27, 2003, 05:50: Message edited by: JLS ]

QBrigid

February 27th, 2003, 06:57 PM

What about Zealots, Artisans and Renegades what kind of doctrine should we assign them.I believe Renegades should have personalities and doctrines like TROLLS! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Grand Lord Vito

February 28th, 2003, 06:58 PM

What do you mean by AI Strategic State is in?

oleg

February 28th, 2003, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
What do you mean by AI Strategic State is in?AI strategic state describes what protocol from AI files (research.txt, construction.txt, etc) it will use. At what strat. state is AI at any particular moments depends from is it at war, are there are other players nearby and many other factors. It is knid of mysterios and cryptic, at least for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

JLS

February 28th, 2003, 09:19 PM

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
What do you mean by AI Strategic State is in?Oleg is correct.
Also to elaborate on what I was posting:

AI State: Prepare to Attack (A nearby system is ripe for takeover. Prepare a fleet and get ready to attack that system)
Systems conquered -> Infrastructure State
Build Up system not valid -> Infrastructure State
Enemy in Territory -> Defend Short Term State
Target System cannot be conquered -> Infrastructure State
Not enough ships to attack -> Infrastructure State
Target system not good anymore -> Infrastructure State
Forces ready to attack -> Attack State
Too long preparing -> Infrastructure State

If the AI in the above example goes back into the Infrastructure state at a late point in attack ship construction and does not actually make its attack then it may have put itself in a deficit until it starts taking ship loses or starts/upgrades a new resource colonies!

In that post I mentioned Resource degradation: What I meant by this, was to try to answer the players question on when the AI cant compete. At some Point in SE4 where the AI is really stuck: the best example would have been when the AI gets 20 to 30 kt maintenance per turn Dreadnoughts and Base ships, where there are no more facility upgrades to support such a large fleet.

Now with AI Campaign I can give a (no maintenance cost) to ALL AI ships and with this the AI can build practically unlimited amounts of ships. but this gets real tricky with play balance. Example: Lets say a ROCK AI starts building Cruisers and this would be based on (Planet Per Item Entry), as it is now; his Last limiting factor is maintenance. At many points in a game the AI will go into and out of a Resource deficit similar to a Human player.
(Actually the very Last overall limiting factor is total game ship count from setup)

AI Campaign can and will address the LATE game wows of Resource deficit with more play testing and Player input� I can have the AI make 100 Baseships at no cost but that would do little for play balance. I feel I helped the AI in Finite resources, at least well enough were he can now compete, but I did not address Combat Ship maintenance to a large degree yet.

In AI Campaign I wanted to address some AI issues in regards to better handling mine fields, point to point re-supply, faster ship training, sector scanning, Stellar manipulations, combating Plagues and Planetary weapons. To help make the AI challenging but not where it cant loose. This in its self gets tricky, I kept it a little challenging this way most can enjoy it, when the experienced players wants more of a challenge beyond (Computer player bonus), they know how to tweak the AIC files to there tastes.

[ February 28, 2003, 19:43: Message edited by: JLS ]

Grand Lord Vito

March 1st, 2003, 08:47 PM

I noticed you droped the output of the Resource Domes, owww, that cost me a chunk of money...

No biggie, I just set up Level 3 Mining OutPosts, and I am in the money now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Grand Lord Vito

March 4th, 2003, 01:55 PM

I like what you done to the AI, they waisted there first fleet to my mines field with a group of escorts, Scouts and a few firgates in an attack on a warp point leading into one of my systems, they lost there intire fleet but I lost more than half my mines. They came in again about a dozen turns later with over 20 destroyers and took out the rest of the mines {no more stupid kamikazi AI ships attacking and loosing ship after ship trying to pass thru a mine field} http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif , but it did not report they took any loses, I have regained the warp point but I don't think I can get the mines up to 100 again before they return.
WOW, they have almost {60 THOUSAND units}, and 227 ships, is this right, I thought you could only have 20000 units in this game? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Well today I go back to work. I took off 2 days Last week and yesturday with the Flu just to play your mod. Nice job JLS. Real nice. I can't wait until I get home to play more http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 04, 2003, 11:57: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

JLS

March 5th, 2003, 02:34 AM

Thanks,
You might want to change your strategy though, in AIC, as the AI gets closer to Light Cruisers, its ability to deal with mines are getting better and better. You might try going with a comparable fleet with a mix of 30 ships and a good mix of satellites Missile and Beam weapons. However the AI will soon be attacking with Fighters on Carriers which will deal with the satellites quite well so make some Point-Defense Sats to at least shoot some of the fighters down not to mention a few CVs of your own. Get a SYS built (SPACE YARD SHIP) and send it to the warp point and make a Defense Base (with Thrusters) if possible, but this takes a lot (LOT) of time in AIC so think ahead and defend that SYS ship as it is building the warp Defense base.

Can you Email me the turn and how the game is going? Is this your Home System? Are you playing Solo or Multiplayer? How is the rest of the AI doing?

Thanks.
You better get pack to work and I am glad this game helped during your convalescence http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ March 04, 2003, 16:35: Message edited by: JLS ]

Grand Lord Vito

March 5th, 2003, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by JLS:
Thanks,
You might want to change your strategy though, in AIC, as the AI gets closer to Light Cruisers, its ability to deal with mines are getting better and better. You might try going with a comparable fleet with a mix of 30 ships and a good mix of satellites Missile and Beam weapons. However the AI will soon be attacking with Fighters on Carriers which will deal with the satellites quite well so make some Point-Defense Sats to at least shoot some of the fighters down not to mention a few CVs of your own. Get a SYS built (SPACE YARD SHIP) and send it to the warp point and make a Defense Base (with Thrusters) if possible, but this takes a lot (LOT) of time in AIC so think ahead and defend that SYS ship as it is building the warp Defense base.

Can you Email me the turn and how the game is going? Is this your Home System? Are you playing Solo or Multiplayer? How is the rest of the AI doing?

Thanks.
You better get pack to work and I am glad this game helped during your convalescence http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif TURN 2454.6
Three systems from my homeworld
Playing solo
2nd place AI player has 84 planets in 14 systems with 71.918 units NOW? and 251 ships

I am in 3rd Place 53 planets in 24 systems about 3000 units and 182 ships

4rh place has 22 planets in 6 systems near 65.000 units and 236 ships

Last place AI has 12 planets un 6 systems 20.298 units and 115 ships

Game started with 6 Computer players and 4 independent computer players. But has grown to 9 more independent players?

I also had 3 warps close in my map?

I hope this helps.

oleg

March 5th, 2003, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
WOW, they have almost {60 THOUSAND units}, and 227 ships, is this right, I thought you could only have 20000 units in this game? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Limit is only for units in space, like minefields and satelite Groups. 95% of AI units in AIC mod is infantry (lowest level troops).

JLS

March 5th, 2003, 04:06 PM

Response to new SE4 player Email

This is true other people mark (Empire) them as 2,3,5k and is still needed in AIC so you may choose AI opponents directly as opposed to just random as it is in AIC currant stage�. But some other people do not have a Easy level choice thru hard on traits menu and/or have completed there Mod some time ago. So this still has to be worked out in AI Campaign.

Yes, you can play this in a 2,3,5000 Point game just give the yourself the appropriate points, however if you choose a 3000 or 5000 point game the AI also gets the increase of 3000 to 5000 points; allowing them to be much more powerful; at jump, as well. I hope this helps.

I wanted to release AI Campaign early to get input on ideas to complete the (window dressing, TAC Fighter mod and General Play balance), so some aspects may not be clear to a new SE4 player at this juncture.

I set up 2 Empires as a choice for beginners and as an example to experienced players on how AIC utilizes the Traits menu.
Phong is there for the people, right off the SEIV tutorial. With a Beginners level and Moderate level.
Terrans are a non-specific race and there is a Beginning level and a moderate level for them as well.

Yes! feel free to create your own race and play any style game you prefer, AI Campaign will/should adapt automatically to your startup selections.

I think I am going to post my reply (only), this is a good question and there may be some confusion on this.

Thank you very much for your input and I look forward to your comments, please continue your Emails http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

John.

[ March 05, 2003, 14:20: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS

March 5th, 2003, 10:06 PM

Oleg; I copied this very informative operation that you posted; wiliest helping a new Player with Adding other Empires

Originally posted by HercMighty:
I loaded in JLS mod and it works great. I have tried to load in Atrocities files but I get an unable to load error. I put the .emp files into the empire folder. I had unzipped the rest of the files to pictures\races folder and moved the one text file to the design folder. The races that came with the mod work fine. If I change the directory to the standard directory and try to load a empire that came with the game I get the same error. Any help thanks.
In many cases .emp files created for one mod will not work with another. There might be a problems with AI as well. JLS' mod is very weird http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (in good sense) no AI from other mods will work with it. If you want to add some new race for youself only (not for AI) simply make a new folder in pictures/race directory and move files there. If you want to add race to be played under AI control, you will have to borrow AI files from another JLS' race. Simply copy all AI files and rename them. Take care about AI_general file - that one keeps unique race description, you may want to keep them but you will have to adjact racial traits, they are unique in JlS' mod. Copy and paste should help. Few trials and fails and it will become easy.

[ March 05, 2003, 20:09: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron

March 5th, 2003, 10:29 PM

So did you ever write a description for use on the MM mods list page?

JLS

March 5th, 2003, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
So did you ever write a description for use on the MM mods list page?Sorry, Fryon.....
I am on it now!!!
Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

JLS

March 5th, 2003, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by JLS:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
So did you ever write a description for use on the MM mods list page?Sorry, Fryon.....
I am on it now!!!
Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <hr /></blockquote>Fryon, I condensed description on the sticky Mod List, is this ok?

Mod List (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=007983)

JLS

March 6th, 2003, 12:22 AM

Originally posted by oleg:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
WOW, they have almost {60 THOUSAND units}, and 227 ships, is this right, I thought you could only have 20000 units in this game? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Limit is only for units in space, like minefields and satelite Groups. 95% of AI units in AIC mod is infantry (lowest level troops).<hr /></blockquote>Grand Lord Vito,
Do you know how to check/Log in to the AI players?
Are you playing Simultaneous or not in this game?

My guess looking at the AIC unit construction file; Unit break down could be something like this for the AI: +-10%
Infantry (Planet and onboard) 60-70%
Fighters (Planet and onboard)30% Plus
Weapons Platforms .01-5%
Sats and mines 5-20% (depending on race)
Drones .001-5% (depending on race)

[ March 05, 2003, 22:41: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron

March 6th, 2003, 02:44 AM

Originally posted by JLS:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JLS:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
So did you ever write a description for use on the MM mods list page?Sorry, Fryon.....
I am on it now!!!
Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <hr /></blockquote>Fryon, I condensed description on the sticky Mod List, is this ok?

Mod List (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=007983)<hr /></blockquote>That is condensed? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif It looks as long as the original post was. Maybe you could just say what the mod itself does, and not what all of the sub mods do, as that is kind of redundant (esp. since none of those sub-mods are released). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

JLS

March 6th, 2003, 03:35 AM

I have further condensed the description to what I believe is the minimum coherent explanation of what I have achieved http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I am willing to compromise with you, however the sub-mods are a part of AI campaign, and as such were released with the original release of AI Campaign. The sub-mods may be removed from AIC or added/Removed to other mods if desired by others.

Please let me know what your thoughts are on the size, it now looks smaller than some, so I expect you will be satisfied. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Mod List (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=007983)

[ March 06, 2003, 01:55: Message edited by: JLS ]

Grand Lord Vito

March 8th, 2003, 02:06 AM

Originally posted by JLS:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by oleg:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
WOW, they have almost {60 THOUSAND units}, and 227 ships, is this right, I thought you could only have 20000 units in this game? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Limit is only for units in space, like minefields and satelite Groups. 95% of AI units in AIC mod is infantry (lowest level troops).<hr /></blockquote>Grand Lord Vito,
Do you know how to check/Log in to the AI players?
Are you playing Simultaneous or not in this game?

My guess looking at the AIC unit construction file; Unit break down could be something like this for the AI: +-10%
Infantry (Planet and onboard) 60-70%
Fighters (Planet and onboard)30% Plus
Weapons Platforms .01-5%
Sats and mines 5-20% (depending on race)
Drones .001-5% (depending on race)<hr /></blockquote>Turn 2465.1 2nd place AI race now in third with only 95 ships, just over 69000 units, he has only one war, I guess he is loosing.

AI Homeworld
4512 Infantry
1148 Troopers
1224 Elite Troopers
420 Large Fighters
31 Small Weapon Platforms
3 Medium Weapons Platforms
no sats ot mines on home world
AI does 21 in a group over the homeworld
with 10 BASES

Almost all established colonys the same, but less troopers and a whole lot more fighters, about 100 to 200 per planet.

I tried to count all the units, way to many...

They have tons of Infantry and Troopers....
several hundred mines in about 30 plus mine fields. About same with satilitte fields.

They have about 12 medium carriers all full with assorted fighters mostly small and some med.

4 Base ships (skow they only go 5)
3 dreadnoights
8 Battle Cruisers
4 Large troop ships (cruisers carrying 677 crapy level one and two infantry)?
10 Attack Cruisers
10 Destroyers
7 Defense frigate
and about a dozen Support ships some with fighters

The rest are transporst and few colony ships

I hope this helps

I am playing simu

For the record, this AI plays just like a human http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

JLS

March 9th, 2003, 04:55 AM

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
[QUOTE]Turn 2465.1 2nd place AI race now in third with only 95 ships, just over 69000 units, he has only one war, I guess he is loosing.

AI Homeworld
4512 Infantry
1148 Troopers
1224 Elite Troopers
420 Large Fighters
31 Small Weapon Platforms
3 Medium Weapons Platforms
no sats ot mines on home world
AI does 21 in a group over the homeworld
with 10 BASES

Almost all established colonys the same, but less troopers and a whole lot more fighters, about 100 to 200 per planet.

I tried to count all the units, way to many...

They have tons of Infantry and Troopers....
several hundred mines in about 30 plus mine fields. About same with satilitte fields.

They have about 12 medium carriers all full with assorted fighters mostly small and some med.

4 Base ships (skow they only go 5)
3 dreadnoights
8 Battle Cruisers
4 Large troop ships (cruisers carrying 677 crapy level one and two infantry)?
10 Attack Cruisers
10 Destroyers
7 Defense frigate
and about a dozen Support ships some with fighters

The rest are transporst and few colony ships

I hope this helps

I am playing simu

For the record, this AI plays just like a human http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Grand Lord Vito,
I just noticed you posted:

Almost all established colonys the same, but less troopers and a whole lot more fighters, about 100 to 200 per planet.
Are you sure you don't have this reversed, seems like to way many fighters !!!!

In your [AI Campaign/Savegame] folder , you will find you newest save game files ????.GAM can you Email me this group of files�

This will help with some Q&C Balance.

Thanks

Sullivan_JohnL@msn.com

Grand Lord Vito

March 16th, 2003, 04:23 PM

More infantry then Troopers, but they have a many fighters on their planet, to answer your question.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif It is turn 781 and I just went into first Place http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Abbidon was taken out early in this game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
Durshka has been the Main Power since it took out the Abbidon early.
Drushka has also been at war with the Phong for along time in this game, so between Phong and having no treaty with the Terrans they have been getting crunched in-between. It seems like the Phong would just nip at the outer Systems of Drush and the Terrans would scoope up any Planets that where empty. After a long time with no treaty the Terrans and the Drushka are at war now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Me on the other hand, have had peace with all Computer Players except with the Kithra and they are not a threat.

Most races have 45000 units except the now 3rd place Drushska who have now 76036 units and there Ship count is increasing fast and with a lot of BASESHIPS, so who knows, they might get back in this thing.

The Terrans now moved to 2nd Place with many ships, 199 ships total mostly Battleships and Carriers. They have 47734 units and a hole lot of Fighters.

Phong is in 4th Place and with 129 Ships and 44675 units and I think they are fighting the Crystals.

Although it is turn 781, I have not made contact with the Crystals.

This is the best se4 game I have ever had. I lost my first 2 games early to the Hive and the Piondon. I have NEVER, EVER lost at SE4 Solo, {EVER before}.

I guess the trick is to get along with the Computer Players http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

You did a nice job with AI Campaign Sully, thanks.

[ March 16, 2003, 14:46: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

JLS

March 18th, 2003, 05:34 PM

AIC players, Please note:

AIC is currently recommended for experienced players; especially in moderate play mode.
~

AI Campaign currently, is not compatible with most mods and add-ons.
Unfortunately, this is inclusive to any Mount Mods and Fryons most popular and awesome FQM Mod. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

However, as soon as, AIC is past its infancy and growing pains. I would like the opportunity to work with the individual Moders, for the best way to adapt their accredited base mod to AIC.

Thanks, John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 18, 2003, 16:05: Message edited by: JLS ]