SJ's Tech Gridder 0.50 - now with ability support!

[Suicide Junkie]

Are you looking to make huge grid techs?
Just want an easy way to make 100 levels of some component? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Try my tech gridder!
Tech Gridder v0.1.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050805348.zip)

Current features:
- up to 255 new component levels
- multi-dimensional grids
- Modify values by addition, multiplication, or exponentiation at each step.
- Supports modifications to all 3 resource costs, size, hitpoints, supply usage.
- Preview graphs show how your current settings will affect the values.

To do list:
- Expand automatic component naming options.
- add support modifying weapon-specific values
- add support for modifying ability amounts.
- and more

[ May 11, 2003, 05:00: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[ZeroAdunn]

Wow SJ, this is just the thing I was looking for, I love making mods, but I am so lazy I just never get around to it, now, with you tech grider, I can make mods from the comfort of my own couch in minutes, thank you SJ.

And now for another testimonial:

Seriously though, this is a great thing, I just downloaded it so I don't know if it works, but I suspect it does, thank you very much!

[narf poit chez BOOM]

sounds good.

[Suicide Junkie]

Tech gridder v0.2.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050851045.zip)

- Added support for Roman numeral naming, and alphabetical naming. Both expanded and compact forms of all three types of naming are available.
- Added .ini file to save directory settings. It will now remember where you keep your se4 mod files http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[tesco samoa]

how does it work ??

[TerranC]

I thought DavidG already made something like this; what makes this one any different? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

Tech gridder 0.2b.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050856749.zip)
- Fixed output for multidimensoinal grids
- Changed preview windows to calculate and display values for the same number of steps as the # of tech levels specified in the tech area tab.
- Added "successful completion" message box, since processing can take some time when working on higher dimensions with hundreds of components.

Terran & Tesco:
---------------
This is a more powerful component creator, designed with multi-dimensional grid techs in mind.

As an example, consider designing an engine.

First, create a basic template component.
A simple "Ion Engine I", with 200 minerals cost, 50 radioactives cost, 10 supplies used, and a size of 10 with 20 hitpoints.

Place this component in a text file by itself (be sure to have a line starting with "*begin*", just like the components.txt

Run the tech gridder, and select this the file above.
For the tech levels tab; fill in: 20 levels, starting at zero, and a tech area of "Engine Manufacturing"
In the cost tab, enter:
add: -7.5 ... multiply: 1 ... exponent: 1 under minerals
Add: 0 ... multiply: 0.95 ... exponent: 1 under radioactives.

Go to the Misc tab, and click "Grid this tech".

After a few milliseconds, the text file you had will now be filled with 10 components.
Ion Engine 1 through 10.
Their costs will range from 200 down to 50 minerals, and the radioactives will go down in cost with diminishing returns.

Now comes the powerful part.
Go back to the tech area tab, and change the tech area to "Engine Durability"
Go to the cost tab, and set the resource modifiers back to default (0/1/1)

Go to the "tonnage" tab, and set the hitpoints modifiers to multiply by 1.5, and exponent by 0.9
Set the initial value on the preview window to 20, and click preview. Observe the nice increasing curve with diminishing returns http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

click "grid this tech" again.

When you look at the text file again, you will find it now has 100 components, forming a 2-D grid.

Repeat the process to get a 5-level dimension that reduces supply use by 1 per level.
Now you have 500 components!

You can add as many dimensions as you like in the same way.

[ April 20, 2003, 17:41: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[ZeroAdunn]

now, if only you added a function so it would do weapon damages too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[pathfinder]

Hehe, my thoughts too ZeroAdunn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

worked nicely getting the costs set.

[Suicide Junkie]

Tech Gridder 0.3.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050871736.zip)
Thanks to ZA's excellent suggestion on IRC, I have a nice start to weapon gridding!

Notes:
- Keep the "lock zero values" checked, or you'll probably end up with range-20 weapons. If you know what you're doing, and put some fractional values into the initial component, you can get good results with it off.
- The modifiers apply to all the weapon's values at the same time.
If you add then divide, you can cause the damage at all ranges to converge on a single value. EG: +3, x0.5, ^1 will make the values converge on 6.
If your weapon originally had damage values of 6 5 4 3 2 1, then this will strengthen the max ranges while leaving the short ranges at the same power!

Use of the Preview window is highly recommended to get these things to work out.

[pathfinder]

Nice work!

Hehe, now if the app could proportionally/incrementally add range.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[TerranC]

Perhaps this should be expanded to mod everything in SE4 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Very cool, SJ. This is the reason why you would be the king of the world, if you weren't in Special ops http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/thumbs.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

Perhaps this should be expanded to mod everything in SE4<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm not out to make a swiss army knife, or replace the se4 modder already available.

This is just for making grid techs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I will expand this to handle facilities too, but I don't see it being useful anywhere else.
I'm also looking for suggestions on how the flexibility can be improved.

[ April 21, 2003, 03:33: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[ZeroAdunn]

SJ: You are my god....

I have built a temple to you in my kitchen....

[ZeroAdunn]

Found a bug, if you have a component that starts with a roman numeral (like Xander, or Lazer) it will chop of the word, leaving only that first letter.

[ZeroAdunn]

oh, and it cuts of seeker damage resistance too.

[Suicide Junkie]

Found a bug, if you have a component that starts with a roman numeral (like Xander, or Lazer) it will chop of the word, leaving only that first letter.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Is that the only word in the name?
It worked fine when I tried it on "Meson BLaster I"

If you're doing a "simple" mode naming scheme, it tries to convert the Last word in the name to an integer (Xander -> 10 in R.N. In the alphanumeric scheme, it would be some horrible number close to 300,000,000 (X->24*26^5) It then uses that number to start off a sequence of names in ascending order for the next components.
If this is the case, you need to just change your starting component to "Xander I" and it'll work.
If you started with "Xander V" then 5 more gridded components would turn out as "Xander V" through "Xander X"

I'm not seeing it cut off seeker damage resistance, though...

[ April 21, 2003, 15:03: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[Suicide Junkie]

Tech Gridder v0.4.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050949103.zip)

- Added support for modifying weapons range.
Note: "Adding left & shift" mode considers the left side to be the minimum range where the damage is non-zero.
If you have a weapon with "0 0 0 5 5 5 ..."
Adding a 10 to the left side gives "0 0 0 10 5 5 5 ..."
If all ranges do zero damage, then it adds damage at range 1.

Note2: "Adding to the Right" will not have ANY effect on weapons that do damage at range 20 (or range 21 for missiles)
So: If the Last number in the damage at range is non-zero, "Add to the right" does nothing.

Note3: Damage modifiers are applied across the weapon BEFORE range is modified.

Note4: If the damage at max or min range is between zero and 1, it will still be considered max or min range. This may have odd effects, resulting in weapons with "gaps" of zero damage between their final max and min range.

Any damage number that goes negative, will be tracked internally, but shows up as zero in the final component output.

[Suicide Junkie]

Tech Gridder v0.45.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050962569.zip)
- Added support for "Seeker Damage Resistance"

[Phoenix-D]

I will expand this to handle facilities too, but I don't see it being useful anywhere else."

Yeah, my plans for a C mod (100 levels of everything to placate the "Research ends too soon" crowd) died a very sudden death when I discovered Krqk's late lamented editior only did components.

If the ship screen had an obselete feature I'd request "grid ships". But unfortunately it doesn't, and neither does the mount screen.

Phoenix-D

[narf poit chez BOOM]

W battleship
W baseship
X battleship
X baseship
Y battleship
Y baseship
Z battleship
Z baseship
i think it would work. the latest would always be at the top.

[Krsqk]

The AI always uses the lowest size/mount/facility/component, so having the latest at the top (easy for us) means dooming the AI to inferiority. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

then reverse it and just tell everyone to go to the bottom.

[dogscoff]

S_J, thankyou from the botom of my pint for this utility.

I'm never going to use it myself, but I expect to benefit indirectly in a few weeks/ months time when a new generation of delightfully complex gridded mods come out.

[Suicide Junkie]

Tech Gridder v0.48.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1051059744.zip)
- Fixed some minor issues with component naming.
Names are now independent of starting tech level
- Added protection against input with component data right up to the End of File.

[tesco samoa]

SJ in the upcoming tech grid mod i wish to set up the components so they get smaller and less expensive...

How would one go about doing that with this modder...

Answer one would be based on the smaller or less expensive

answer two would be based on combining them

Also...

Have you talked to David G about adding this to his Modder program.... As I do see a good fit here and you could help each other out here...

[Fyron]

Take the comps you want to make smaller and cheaper and copy them into a new text file with *begin* at the front of it. Then, open the tech gridder and select that file. Chose a naming scheme and the effects from the various tabs. Hit "grid now" in the Last tab, and it should output everything you wanted. It will create multiple Versions of each comp in the file with appropriate reductions based on tech level reqs.

[Suicide Junkie]

I assume for #1 you want a pair of 1-dimensional grid techs, and for #2 you want a 2-dimensional grid tech. Both applied to a moderatly large set of components.

1) Same as below, except after pressing the "Go" button the first time, copy the results in, and reset the file to be gridded back to just the original components.

2) Take only the components you want to grid, and run them into the Tech Gridder. Choose the appropriate tech area, naming scheme, and number of levels using the first two tabs

Go to the cost tab for the next part:
Since you're doing a lot of varied components at the same time, I suggest using the multiplier, set between .90 or .95 depending on the effect you want. (Be sure to use the preview window to see how the components will compare to each other when picking the exact value)
Use the same setting for all three resources, unless you want variation.

Flip to the "Miscellaneous" tab, and press the button.
Go back to the cost tab, and set the multipliers back to 1.
Change the tech area, and then go to the tonnage tab. Set the size multiplier, probably .90 to .95 again.
Flip to the Misc. tab, and press the button.

Now copy the results into your components.txt

I'm not sure if SE4 cares or not but I noticed there is an extra space between the = sign and the tech name in the tech required field.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nope, SE4 dosen't care. The latest Version should have that cosmetic detail fixed.

Have you talked to David G about adding this to his Modder program.... As I do see a good fit here and you could help each other out here...<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, I haven't, but there's no particular reason why it couldn't work.

[DavidG]

Looks pretty cool!!

I'm not sure if SE4 cares or not but I noticed there is an extra space between the = sign and the tech name in the tech required field.

[tesco samoa]

thank you

[Krsqk]

How's this coming? Any sign of ability value modding yet? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Just thought I'd nag you a little bit. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Fyron]

Did he release Version .50? Cause it does ability modding...

[Suicide Junkie]

Heh... Oopsie.

I've actually had that in for a while now, just forgot to update this thread http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

Tech Gridder 0.50 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1052624500.zip)

Notes:
- Unlike the other tabs, the abilities tab requires you to press the save buttons before the changes will take effect. Watch to see the list of modifiers in the top right of the window change when you save.
- be sure to add ability amount tags into the description of your original component.
EG: "Provides a [-Var1-]% bonus to weapon accuracy"
- do not enable the description change until the Last dimension. Once the description is changed, it will be a lot of work to change it again.
- If the var1 or var2 entry is a text description rather than a number, ensure that the "Do not edit" box is checked, or the value will be changed to an integer.
- The gridder works on the abilities by position.
Adding 5 to ability 1 var 1 has different effects on different components, so keep this in mind.
- If the gridder is told to make changes to an ability # that some particular component does not have, the component will be unaffected by the setting.

[ May 11, 2003, 04:59: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[Krsqk]

Now that's what I call service. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Now I want a bug-free Version of WinXP within the hour. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Krsqk]

Okay, I'm assuming this is a typo, but...When I select a file in the "select a file" box, a dialog box pops up declaring "Now gridding components found in: c:\blahblahblahblah\blah.txt" The odd part is, it says the same thing whether it's a .txt file, an .exe file, a .lnk file, etc...Is it supposed to say "New gridding components" or "No gridding components"?

[Suicide Junkie]

No, it means "Now I will look at the components contained in this file, and grid whatever I see"

Its only once you press the "Grid this tech" button, will it complain about not finding any components...

I should test the file for components earlier.

[Fyron]

And change the message so it is more clear. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Krsqk]

Well, SJ is now #1 on my most-despised people list. I'm up to a 35.4 MB component file--that's for one 6-D tech @ 5 levels each. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif Only 15 or so more to go. At least it RARs down to ~162 KB. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Obviously, I'm going to have to scale this down a little bit.

[Fyron]

There is no need to scale it down! Make it as large as necessary. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Krsqk]

Yes, but we little ordinary peons (or PEoN) who have dialup have to suffer through all this. Maybe I'll have to break it up into 5 separate downloads. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Krsqk]

One other suggestion: allow modifying the tech level increase as with the other options. Maybe I want to have something happen every other level (actually, I do). Or every *1.28 levels. Or every ^2 levels. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

If it rars down to 162 KBs, that is not a big download at all.

Originally posted by Krsqk:
One other suggestion: allow modifying the tech level increase as with the other options. Maybe I want to have something happen every other level (actually, I do). Or every *1.28 levels. Or every ^2 levels. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Add .5 range per level. You will get a range increase of 1 every other level. It is stickier with multiplication and exponentials, but addition works for some things that are in whole number values. But having an explicit feature like that would be a good idea.

[ May 12, 2003, 23:27: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Krsqk]

That's an okay workaround, except for the extra Romans and double component size, but I'd prefer the option. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

One other picky thing which would be nice is changing the tab order of the various controls to function in the logical, predictable order. Some of them are actually in reverse (i.e., shift-tab to go forward). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Not high priority, but nice. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

--For those 11 components I've been working on--
Current RAR size at high compression: 321 KB
Current ZIP size at high compression: 737 KB

[Krsqk]

Yet another post by me on this thread... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Do the Seeker Damage Resistance modifiers actually do anything? In v0.50, they don't seem to. In v0.45, the Version in which they were added, they add a single space before the entry instead of modifying it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif The preview doesn't show anything, either. Am I missing something here?

[Fyron]

One other picky thing which would be nice is changing the tab order of the various controls to function in the logical, predictable order. Some of them are actually in reverse (i.e., shift-tab to go forward). Not high priority, but nice.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I already mentioned this, and he said that he did not want to go and rewrite large portions of the code to fix that bug he created. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Krsqk]

Okay, so I manage to combine my new comps into one giant 71 MB Components.txt file. I load SE4 with the Mod Launcher, watch the meter shoot up to 64% and sit...and sit...and sit...and sit... The Task Manager shows the SE4 process consuming larger and larger amounts of memory, up to ~170 MB, then dropping to ~50 MB and climbing again. Page file use steadily climbs, eventually reaching ~565 MB! After 15 minutes of watching this, the hard drive whirrs and chatters, and something finally happens:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">&quot;Unable to load &quot;D:\Games\Space Empires IV Gold\Mods\Data\Components.txt&quot;</pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">71 MB of data and 15 minutes of load time, and I probably misspelled "Name:" on one comp. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif Be my guest if you'd like to look through the file, though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Maybe 256 MB of RAM just isn't enough. Or maybe SE4 just doesn't like files that big. I guess that limits what I'm going to do with this mod, though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

Break the comps file up into smaller parts and see which parts pass SE4's tests. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Spoo]

Isn't there a maximum number of components? (65k?)

[Suicide Junkie]

Possibly...

But 64k components takes up 112 megs of space, so unless you're planning to fill a CD with your mod, you don't have to worry about that limit.

[ June 28, 2003, 23:55: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[TranscendentJedi]

Two questions about the tech gridder:
1. Each time I try and use it it adds four tech area requirements instead of one. How do I fix that?
2. I'm trying to use the gridder to increase the amount of resources a mineral miner makes the same way it increases cost, but it doesn't do anything to the amount of minerals mined (even though it does replace the variable in my description). Yes, I was sure to uncheck the box.

[Suicide Junkie]

The only reason I can think of why there would be four additional tech areas is if you clicked the "grid this tech" button four times...

To adjust the resource production, go to the abilities tab, and select ability 1.
Set the Add to 100 or, whatever you like.
Uncheck the "Do not edit" option, and press "save changes"

Those Last two steps are critical.
The "Do not edit" is important, as it protects non-numeric values from change... such as "Temporal" for the cloaking type.
In order to actually change the value, you need to disable that protection.

[TranscendentJedi]

It works now! I have no idea what I was doing wrong, but I doubt that matters. Thanks!