SE4 Editor

[Drax]

I started to make a mod about 3 separate times, but I couldnt be arsed with editing the data files (starting the mod), so I have made an editor for SE4. Currently, it only edits the components, facilities, and tech areas, but I am still working on it, so more capabilities may follow.

If anyone is interested in it, you can download it from here (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andrewballantine/SE4/SE4ModderV0.1.zip) (about 140Kb)

If you want to see the layout first, I made some screenies for you (Although the screen shots are bigger than the editor...hmmm)

Component Editor (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andrewballantine/SE4/ComponentEditor.jpg)
Tech area editor (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andrewballantine/SE4/TechAreaEditor.jpg)
Facilities editor (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andrewballantine/SE4/FacilityEditor.jpg)

If you like this, hate this want something added, please post so I know people are interested. I wont develop this much further if you dont use it, since I am nearly satisfied with it. I havnt actually tried even running a game with data files made by the editor, and remember, there isnt much in the way of safety nets or error handling, so be gentle http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[dogscoff]

Looks nice from the screenshots. There is at least one other well-developped mod-maker program out there, but since I don't do any modding I couldn't tell you whether yours is better or worse or what.

It's always good to see people doing stuff like this though, so well done & keep at it.

What's your mod like?

[Slynky]

Although a bit OT, what I'd really like to see is a better SE Map editor http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif .

Something with a LOT more drag and drop instead of filling in corresponding, reciprocating, and matching coordinates for warplines. UGH !!!

[Drax]

My mod is a load of data files stripped bare at the moment (found a bug in my program - DONT delete all the techareas, components, or facilities, the program will crash). It will get some work done on it later.

A map editor? I will have to at that. How do you make a map normaly?

[dogscoff]

The map files are encrypted, so a user-made map editor is impossible, or at least very very difficult.

It would be nice to see though, so good luck...

You can normally make map files with the map-editor program included with SE4 (well, with se4 gold or with one of the patches if you have classic)

[Slynky]

Originally posted by dogscoff:
You can normally make map files with the map-editor program included with SE4 (well, with se4 gold or with one of the patches if you have classic)<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Only recommended for people who enjoy root canals, have a good supply of alcoholic beverages, a carton of cigarettes, no spouse or children, a few available days off work and food for a similar amount of time, and the patience of Job.

[dogscoff]

C'mon, it's not that bad. I made a map from scratch for my O&C universe, it only took me several hours to do something that should have taken 10 minutes...

The truth is, the map editor is just that- an editor, rather than a map creator. It's designed for tweaking maps already generated by the game (or by FQM or whatever).

[Drax]

Wow...malfador really didnt want people messing around with the maps did they http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

I may have to let that one go http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[dogscoff]

I guess it's to stop in-game cheating, but I'm sure an equally effective solution would have been possible while still enabling players to write their own map editors.

The best you can do for now is to tweak the game's map generation files, keep making maps until you get one that nearly fits your requirements and then save it out and tweak it.

[tesco samoa]

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=006349

DavidG's editor

Edits everything...

[Drax]

hehe, wish I had known about that 3 days ago.

I started looking at the map files. I wouldnt say I am making progress toward a map editor, but I am begginging to see patterns. Of course, that may be the effect of staring at rows of hex for an hour. Still, it worked my I was modding moo2. Moo2 was far kinder to work on map wise.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

somebody managed to make a map generater for stars, so it should be possible.

[Fyron]

I guess it's to stop in-game cheating, but I'm sure an equally effective solution would have been possible while still enabling players to write their own map editors.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As soon as you let people access the code, someone (or many someones) will devise ways to cheat.

[Pocus]

Nice work and layout anyway Drax. Congrats!

[TerranC]

There is one effective way to edit a map:
Use the map editor to make the systems, place the planets, and everything else BUT the warp points.

Save the map and load the map and start a game with it, with tech setting set to high, enable save map in game, enable cheat modes, and load up your race as the only one in the game.

Start the game, and click yes when it asks you if you still want to play the game.

Build a stellar manip ship, and warp away.

After you're done, save and finish! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Drax]

That would probably be less effort than making a map editor, from what I can see. It looks as though each time a map is saved a random number is generated that changes the value of most of the file, so the same map can be a different file size each time it is saved, although there are some similarities. I figured out some of the file format, but I really dont have time to make a full map creator, what with exams looming and a mod to make. maybe in a few months if I am finnished with se4 and I am really board in the summer (which I probably will be, i'm too lazy to get a job http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) I'll grab my labtop and lie in the sun for an hour or six. It is an interesting challenge though. I think i'll dream of lines of hex tonight http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by dogscoff:
I guess it's to stop in-game cheating, but I'm sure an equally effective solution would have been possible while still enabling players to write their own map editors. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There was a game I played a long time ago - VGA planets, I think - that figured out a way around player cheating. The host kept files for everything, and the program generated files from that which were subsets of the total data (only the stuff the player would be able to see). When the turn was run on the host, the host program compared all the changes which were made to the various players' turns, and checked to see if they were possible. If one wasn't, the host would get a message that the player's status was in the red, and the offending materials/supplies/ships/money was destroyed, with the player getting a message along the lines of "1000 credits have been discovered to be counterfit!" or "A ship has spontaneously exploded!" et cetera. Players couldn't open the save files up to get information on their opponents, becuase it wasn't there to get. Players couldn't edit their available resources because the host checked for the possibility of the changes (with very few exceptions, a player couldn't edit the files to do anything that couldn't be done honestly). The host, however, could do anything, as the host had all of the base files that turns get compared to.

A similar system might allow for editing maps without allowing for the possibility of cheating.

Then again, it might be impossible to implement for real time play.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Taz-in-Space]

Posted by TerranC:
There is one effective way to edit a map:
Use the map editor to make the systems, place the planets, and everything else BUT the warp points.

Save the map and load the map and start a game with it, with tech setting set to high, enable save map in game, enable cheat modes, and load up your race as the only one in the game.

Start the game, and click yes when it asks you if you still want to play the game.

Build a stellar manip ship, and warp away.

After you're done, save and finish! <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's an innovative way to do it. My only change would be to go into the GAME map generator and generate the map there.

This is because the map generator is NOT random.
That's right folks, with the same settings you WILL get an identical map. (or identical series of maps)
Whoever programmed the map editor forgot to ensure a truly random generation. This is easy to do since many programming Languages have only pseudo-random number generator that must be randomized by programming tricks. (Like creating a Seed number based on the system clock's current time.)

[Ruatha]

Originally posted by Jack Simth:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by dogscoff:
I guess it's to stop in-game cheating, but I'm sure an equally effective solution would have been possible while still enabling players to write their own map editors. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There was a game I played a long time ago - VGA planets, I think - that figured out a way around player cheating. The host kept files for everything, and the program generated files from that which were subsets of the total data (only the stuff the player would be able to see). When the turn was run on the host, the host program compared all the changes which were made to the various players' turns, and checked to see if they were possible. If one wasn't, the host would get a message that the player's status was in the red, and the offending materials/supplies/ships/money was destroyed, with the player getting a message along the lines of "1000 credits have been discovered to be counterfit!" or "A ship has spontaneously exploded!" et cetera. Players couldn't open the save files up to get information on their opponents, becuase it wasn't there to get. Players couldn't edit their available resources because the host checked for the possibility of the changes (with very few exceptions, a player couldn't edit the files to do anything that couldn't be done honestly). The host, however, could do anything, as the host had all of the base files that turns get compared to.

A similar system might allow for editing maps without allowing for the possibility of cheating.

Then again, it might be impossible to implement for real time play.

Just my 2 cents worth.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, but it did happen that the dreaded "Tim Continuum" stroke without cause, not often but it did happen.

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by Ruatha:
Yes, but it did happen that the dreaded "Tim Continuum" stroke without cause, not often but it did happen.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I suspect that is why they fixes were disguised as random events, and the host program didn't automatically boot the offending player out of the game.

However, assuming the false positive has the same chance per player (or the same chance per ship/planet processed) then it still makes for a fair game - you just have a new source of random events.

Besides, false positives are just programming bugs or transmission errors, and theoretically could be worked out in a different implementation.

[Drax]

I think I am still going to develop this, but it will be alongside my mod. Since most of the mod will be components, tech areas, and facilities, most of the coding is done. I will continue to upload the latest Versions of my editor every now and again to my web space (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andrewballantine/SE4/). Work on the mod has started, maybe I will post about it soon

[dogscoff]

As soon as you let people access the code, someone (or many someones) will devise ways to cheat.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well there are ways around that... for example:

How about if you could build up a map from text files? You could have a folder containing a stack of such files: One per star system, defining exactly what is in the system, what abilities apply, what graphics to use, where the warp points go and everything. It would be really easy for enthusiastic programmers to create handy map editors if maps could be defined in this format.

Obviously though this format wouldn't be secure at all, and so it would be useless for actual game use. Therefore the clever bit would be for Malfador to give us a "map compiler" that sucks in all the text files and spits out a secure map file exactly like the ones the game currently uses.

We get our easy-to-edit format, Malfador gets to hang on to map security. Everyone's happy. (Even Fyron! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

Technically I can see no reason why this shouldn't work, except that Malfador has more important things to do than code us a map compiler:(

[Krsqk]

Everyone's happy. (Even Fyron! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Let's not jump the gun now or anything... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Krsqk:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Everyone's happy. (Even Fyron! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Let's not jump the gun now or anything... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[TerranC]

Nothing can satisfy the FYRON. Didn't you learn that by now, Dogscoff? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif