Roleplaying Diplomacy

[Aloofi]

I'm playing an Empire that is Warrior/Honorable, and I have a Partnership with both the Krill Dominion and the Xiati Empire, and relations are both in "Brotherly". Now in the Last turn they both went at war with each other and both of then sent me a Demand/request to brake my partnership and declare war on the other.
I know that I can just not answer their request, but I want to play it right. The problem is that the custume race that I'm roleplaying is Warrior/Honorable that apreciate loyalty and family values over anything else and they would never tolerate that I go to war against somebody that haven't attack us, let alone going to war against a loyal ally. I would probably get a Coup D'eta if I declare war http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .
So, what's the honorable path to follow in this situation?
1- Declare war on both because both are declaring war on one of my allies? Of course not.
2- Downgrade the alliance to Trade and Research?
3- Cancel both alliances?
4- Cancel alliance with the one that declared war? But how can I know who started the war?
5- Request of both to cease hostilities? What if they don't listen?

Anything else that I can do?

[dogscoff]

Make angry demands at both of them to cease hostilities. One or both of them will break their treaty with you soon enough.

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by dogscoff:
Make angry demands at both of them to cease hostilities. One or both of them will break their treaty with you soon enough.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, I guess this is the right thing to do.

Is it there a way to find out who was the one that declared war?
And if so, would it be justified to declare war on the one that declared war, even though they didn't have an alliance between themselves?

[JLS]

My guess, would be the krill, Aloofi.

[Hunkpapa]

Does the tone of your response really have any effect on the AI, I realize it changes the tect of the message.

[Aloofi]

I think it makes the AI angry or something.

[Krsqk]

I think it modifies the effect of the message type. I'd have to check the AI files again to be sure, since it's been a few months since I delved in that deep. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ZeroAdunn]

Here is what you do, tell them both to make peace, then cancell your treaties with both, move fleets in between the two empires, so if they want eachother, they have to go through you. The first one that attacks you, you go to war with, the other, you reestablish peace with.

[oleg]

Nay ! You are Honorable Warrior. Honor your word. Say yes to both embassadors and dispatch fleets to fight them both.

[dogscoff]

Does the tone of your response really have any effect on the AI,
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes it does, and


I realize it changes the tect of the message.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">no it doesn't.

[tesco samoa]

is this a real game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif or a game with you against the computer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
is this a real game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif or a game with you against the computer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Against the computer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Well, I sent the Messages asking them to cease hostilities, and the Xiati said that they were moved by my compassion http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif and that they will sue for peace, but the Krill said that their honor prohibit them from ending this war. I don't not what honor because so far they haven't fire a round.
I will keep asking them to stop untill they stop or else.

Now, in new developments, a Krill transport, using the benefits of the Partnership treaty we have, is resuplying in one of my Colonial Spaceports, and a Xiati fleet of 2 Light Cruisers and 4 Destroyers is just to sectors away, aparently going in the same direction. So it seems that a Krill transport its going to be blown out of the sky in one of my colonies....
Should I tolerate this?
What if radiation debris from the transport's engines fall on my civilian population?
I have 3 carriers in the system with a full complement of the latest Hawk class fighters.
Very tenting.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Gryphin]

If I had the time to test the AI responce to the Tone of the message I would set up a game on a map with say 2/3 players.
In the game setup put the choose two Klingons
Send Demanding Messages to one
Send nice Messages to the other.
I don't know if this would tell you very much.

has anyone ever asked MM about this?

I do know that in the Phun Challenge the Toron offered me a Trade Agreement 3 turns in a row. I did not respond. Their mood went from Moderate to Murderous about 3 turns after the Last offer.

[ May 20, 2003, 17:13: Message edited by: Gryphin ]

[Krsqk]

I don't believe that not responding will affect the AI's mood. Some AIs just need to hear from you fairly often to stay happy (they're like women--communication is a positive, and there's a natural decrease in happiness over time). Some AIs don't want to hear from you, and may even become angry at a gift/tribute offer, but may naturally become happier over time. Then there's those lovable, adorable little fuzz balls that just plain hate everyone all the time, no matter what you do. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by oleg:
Nay ! You are Honorable Warrior. Honor your word. Say yes to both embassadors and dispatch fleets to fight them both.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I'm not that powerful, yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I think that the honorable way would be to do what Dogscoff said and every turn ask them to cease hostility with each other. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by ZeroAdunn:
Here is what you do, tell them both to make peace, then cancell your treaties with both, move fleets in between the two empires, so if they want eachother, they have to go through you. The first one that attacks you, you go to war with, the other, you reestablish peace with.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't think a warrior/honorable race would go along with me breaking treaties...... right?

[Ares]

First thing I would do is immediately downgrade your treaties with both. If they were human, I'd tell them that, although I bear no hostilities toward either of them personally, I cannot allow them to use me to further their war with each other. Remember, they're not just using your supply depots, but also you intelligence points (though I know the AI doesn't use it effectively, but still...), as well as you vision. This war is between the two of them. If they wish to pursue this war for their own honour, you (being both warrior and honourable yourself) must respect that, although you can, of course, refuse to be a part of it. You can (and perhaps should) continue to plea with them for peace, but if they feel they have been dishounored, you must, in the end, give them a chance to reclaim that honour.

[Aloofi]

Yep, you are right. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I will do exactly that.
They have been at war for quite a while now. I sent them Messages several times about making peace and they still "brotherly" with me. Even once they both answer that they would sue for peace, but they didn't, the war continued the same.
Now the Jraenar Empire have entered the picture, so Xiati now have my empire in the south, the Krill (at war) on the right, and the Jraenar on the left. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
The future looks grim for those little Xiati colonies.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

if your not at peace with the jreanor, would attacking them constitute helping the other guy?

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
if your not at peace with the jreanor, would attacking them constitute helping the other guy?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The problem is that I'm roleplaying a Warrior/Honourable race, so I think the first thing to do for such a race is to send a trade treaty offer upon first contact, right?
I did so, and the Jraenar accepted. I finish the Last turn with a trade and research traty with them, and they are "brotherly" towards me. I guess the AI only becomes agressive when there are systems in dispute, and the Jraenar is like 5 systems away from my borders.
The Krill have started kicking some Xiati lower rear, and the Xiati doesn't have any treaty with the Jraenar, so it shouldn't be long untill the Xiati finds themselves fighting a two front war.

Now, what will be the diplomatic implications of this?
The Xiati will ask me to go to war against the Jraenar, and I'm not sure what is the honourable thing to do. I guess I have known the Xiati longer, and a Partnership treaty indeed require to breake any trade treaty with the partner's enemies, right?

SE4 diplomacy might be limited, but it is amazing the moral decissions that we have to make. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

By the way, playing SE4 taking seriously your race's atributes is far more engaging than just trying to conquer the quadrant.

.

[Escaflowne]

Not that I know of Hunk.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

it sounds like your race is honerable/warrior, as you seem to be playing with that trait more important.
your hypothetical situation: maybe, if they ask you to break the t&r, you should first ask the jreaner to stop attacking, tell the ixiatl what your doing, then break the treaty if the jreaner don't stop.

[Ares]

I think Narf's on the right track here. Your longstanding friendship/alliance with the Xiati makes them (essentially) an extension of your own empire. If they are attacked, you should respond the same as if it was you that had been.

[ May 30, 2003, 20:18: Message edited by: Ares ]

[Suicide Junkie]

I guess I have known the Xiati longer, and a Partnership treaty indeed require to breake any trade treaty with the partner's enemies, right?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There is no technical reason why you can't have a partnership with two races who are at war with each other...
Its all politics there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Aloofi]

Yes, The Xiati partnership should be given priority. Honourable means, within other things, that somebody is loyal and committed, so if a partner is attacked the moral thing to do would be to declare war on the partner's enemy. I mean, a partnership is a higher treaty than a Military treaty.

Maybe SE5 diplomacy should include...... alliance wars?

Oh well, the weekend's coming and I'm not gonna be able to play probably untill monday.....
.
.

[ May 30, 2003, 21:44: Message edited by: Aloofi ]