(OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers

[Taera]

Hello everyone, first off please keep this topic serious. if it drifts away ill just ask it to be deleted. thanks.

i have some problems... and hope that some of you, at least half of which are more than twice my age, can perharps advice me about.
Some background, in september '02 i immigrated, together with ymm family, to Canada.
Now it've been almost 9 months since then.
I find myself struggling to find friendships. Overally i am a relatively quiet person but this trait is acquired. I know some psychology and know how to deal with problems, and guess i would be able to get past through this - but i would appreciate some advice.

At this moment im very depressed. I spend most of my days home, on the computer. playing games.
While this *might* be okay for someone its not for me - in school (high school, 11th grade) i can not seem to be able to make friendships. As it appears i simply do not know how.

Other side is i happen to like a girl. She's now a friend of mine but im afraid to try anything further... because chances are it'll fail (very social, very nice looking girl, much different from me) i'll lose her as a friend (most likely). this does add up to my depression.

I am also suffering from lack of topics to talk about, with just about anyone (my interests kinda differ).

I am not looking for pity, this is a problem i got myself into. But i want this solved. Any advice appreciated.

And please, do not make me regret i made this post. I do not usually make such things, I simply trust you people to be serious.

Thanks.

[ June 20, 2003, 06:40: Message edited by: Taera ]

[Stone Mill]

It's brave to post about something like this, although I'd take advice on the Boards for what it is worth.

I had a rough time in High School as well, but I did find friends who were considered "nerds" if you please. Some of these geeks are my friends to this day. Find out if these are any gamers in your school or in the local area. That is a way to find friends who share a common bond... if not, find another area of interest, like a sport, for example.

Change your mindset and volunteer for something like Habitat for Humanity, or homeless shelter, or a local community project. You will feel good about yourself, and you can meet people this way as well.

Oh and Last but not least, never be afraid to talk it out with someone. If your school counselor is not your style, find someone who is. Do this IN PERSON. 75% of communication is nonverbal.

Too bad you are bummed out, but sometimes "just getting through" tough times is enough. Give it some time, circumstances will change, and so will your perspective. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[dogscoff]

My teenage years were a lot like this. I assume you're a teenager- I'm not entirely sure what 11th Grade means. Forgive me if any of the following sounds patronising then.

The important thing about meeting people and making friends is to know and be comfortable with who you are, and unfortunately this is rarely something people learn before reaching full adulthood. That's why teenagers have such a rough time emotionally.

Luckily we on the forums know you to be intelligent and creative, and those qualities will help you on your way and will eventually draw people to you. The main problem is that people of your age (man I feel old saying this=-) tend to value shallow things (looks, fashion, wealth) above more profound qualities.

Anyway, my advice would be to diversify your interests a little. I know it sounds like a lame attempt to try to change yourself in order to "fit in", but that's not it at all. There's no harm in trying out some different things. That's what life's all about and you might find something you like.

What you need to do (IMO) then is to take up another activity- one that requires you going out and attending a club or group. Football, chess, martial arts, amateur rocketry, voluntary conservation work... anything that gets you out of the house for a few hours each week. You'll meet people, practise your social skills and maybe find a subject to talk to this girl (and other potential friends) about other than computers/ gaming, which still carry something of a geekish stigma, unfortunately.

You'll also (probably) get a chance to mix with older people a little more, which is a good thing. It's right for you to be looking for friendship among people of your own age, but at the same time I think there are certain social skills you can only really learn from adults.

You might have to try out a number of different activities before you find one that suits you, but that's fine. It's all good experience, and experience is what counts. Eventually you'll find something that you can really get passionate about. Go to local sports and community centres and ask for a list of Groups that use their facilities on a regular basis. Local community websites can be good for this sort of thing as well.

You're doing the right thing talking to us about it as well. Trying to cope with this sort of thing is really not easy, especially if you try to do it on your own.


Other side is i happen to like a girl. She's now a friend of mine but im afraid to try anything further... because chances are it'll fail (very social, very nice looking girl, much different from me) i'll lose her as a friend (most likely).
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's interesting that you describe her here as a friend, but earlier you said that you can't make friendships. You may be better at making friends than you think. Also, don't assume that she won't like you just because you're different to her. Who knows what she likes? Take it easy, spend time talking to her (and just as important, listening to her) and get to know one-another more. If there is any potential for romance it will make itself felt soon enough.

EDIT: I hadn't read stone mill's post when I wrote this, so it seems we've come to similar conclusions independently.

[ May 21, 2003, 16:45: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

[Ruatha]

Hi there Taera, I'll say what I think even though you put some No's in my poll http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

I can recognize myself earlier in life in your description.
All the girls I've been together with have taken the lead, myself I never dared take the initiative.
My wife and I was friends for three years before she asked me what we were actually doing spending all this time together....
So I'm thankful to my Wife http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

What about talking to this girl about your current situation?
About how hard it is to find friends, OR talk to her about how you really like her but don't wanna loose her as a friend... (Don't talk about both, that seems desperate!)

Many have written about activities, if you are going down into a depression the first things one stop with are usually those that are fun, so if you used to do some things that you found fun but don't anymore, do them anyway!!! The activity is propably still fun but the lack of initiative is difficult.

Take some person and use as a test person. See how far you can go without embarrasing yourself, talk about anything, it doesn't matter what, questions are usually a good thing. Ask them what they did this weekend, spin on that, was it fun, have you done it before, the key point is to focus interest on the other person, then they'll really like you! Active listening!

For me my great break through was when I moved to another town and started a new school (17 years old), only two people there knew me as I used to be, quiet and shy. This time I decided to don't care.
If I blushed, so what, girls like it!
I talked and joked and went to discos, where I look like there's a severe case of electrical shocks sent through me, not a pretty sight, but I tried to ingnore the fact that I cared!
I made a fool out of myself several times but I tried to not show that I cared, I tried joking it away, and it got easier all the time. Taking the initiative with girls though was a limit I didn't dare cross, but thankfully somehow I started to get more attractive the more I blushed and made a fool of myself! (I guess it's something with the maternal instinct, take care of the poor sod!)
About at this time I started skydiving aswell, that also gave my ego a real kick and might be why I could do the things I did, I got an identity which I somehow had thought I hadn't had before, I needed an external definition of myself.
(Made 500+ jumps before my first kid came and I stopped, met my wife while skydiving when I was 24 , first kiss in freefall)

Later in life when I got my first kid I got my depression. It was too much with med school, a kid , a wife that was constantly tired and blamed me for everything from the dirty dishes to the cold weather (Tired post-partum women are not fun!).
I had no time for anything fun.

First I didn't know what had hit me but as my wife is a psychologist she saw what was happening.
Then I started talking with most of my friends about how I was feeling, what a lousy person I was, a bad father, a bad student etc. No one backed away! It took a couple of months before it turned, I was never that bad that I had to stay away from lectures but I failed the exam that semester for the only time in my life!

So to sum it up, Activities, things you would have found fun if you weren't sad.
Talk, to your friend and family about how you feel, they can surprise you!.
Talk to others, about anything, it get's easier and easier. (One can always start with something lame; "-I really wanna talk with you but I don't know about what, You tell me what we should talk about!"
If you embarras yourself or make a fool of yourself so what, in a hundred years no one will know. And will embarrasing yourself make things worse than they are today.

What can you gain and what can you loose, is it worth it?

And finaly, don't give up!

Edit again:
One other thing I did that I won't recommend but that bears some thought.
I stopped with computers.
I had spent three years learning all about them, had imported my own Sinclair ZX-81 Amstrad CPC-464 from England and was a computer wizard, thought the teachers alot.
I sold muy computers and started working in an supermarket. I never took advantage of my computer school training.
I worked in the supermarket for a year, impossible not to meet people.
My relatives thought I was mad, giving up a future proof field with good pay checks and becoming a shop assistant.
After that I worked as a helper at a hospital for a year after military service, then I became a nurse's aid and eventually Med school.
Then I talked to my wife about how I'd really liek to get a computer, but the risk is that i'll become asocial.
She didn't udnertsnd that and said "Go ahead and buy it", she really regrets that!
Still I haven't become asocial, but it steals some time from my family so I try to limit my computer time!

About being shy and quiet, after ignoring it for a couple of years it goes away!

[ May 21, 2003, 17:51: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[Alpha Kodiak]

Taera, I know what you are going through. When I was your age, I had a miserable time with relationships of all sorts, and especially with girls. Looking back, there are a couple of things that might have helped me, and a few things that I did do to help myself, that might be helpful to you.

First and foremost, realize that you are not the only person in your school who feels the way you do. There are others who also feel helpless when it comes to relationships. One thing that helped me, even though I wasn't very good at it, was to seek out others with similar interests and similar problems. For me, there were two places that got me going. One was the chess club and chess team at my high school. Not that I got along perfectly with everyone, but it was worth the effort and I was able to make good friends with similar interests to mine. The second place was church, as again, I was able to find people with similar interests to mine.

While the places to find people with similar interests may be different for you, the point is to seek them out and become involved. Take advantage of opportunities at school. You are correct that you shouldn't sit around and play computer games all the time. You need to get out and do things with other people, even though it takes a lot of work at first.

Now to the more difficult topic, girls.... (and especially the one you are interested in.) I just got a little advice from my wife (yes, even the most awkward of us can eventually find the right girl) about this. The most important thing is to not try and force the issue. I drove off a couple of girls I really liked when I was in high school and college by trying to impress them into liking me. According to my wife, the best thing is to be really interested in her (as a person, not as a girl, if that makes sense) and what she is interested in. If you really like her as a person, she will sense that, and like you back. Whether things ever progress beyond that is not for me to say from this distance, but a strong friendship is necessary for the relationship to ever progress further.

If there really seems to be a friendship developing, then try asking her out to a very non-threatening thing, perhaps an event at school. If she says no, do not push the issue and your friendship should stay intact. Just keep building your friendship when you have the opportunity. Do not make the mistake I made and push the issue by telling her how attracted you are to her until the relationship is much further developed. Finally, if the relationship does not develop the way you want it to, it is not the end of the world (though it may seem like it). You are still very young, and there are a lot of girls out there. I met the girl I eventually married when I was 21, and did not convince her to marry me until I was 27. It took that long to build our relationship, but it was worth every day. I am truly fortunate that I did not get one of the girls I pursued before, as I now realize that they were nowhere near the match for me that my wife is.

One thing that I regret is that I did not talk with my dad much about what I was going through in those years. Later, I discovered that he had had many of the same experiences that I had, and could have given me good advice, had I been willing to talk with him. I would recommend talking with your parents. Chances are they have some pretty good ideas of what you are going through. (I did talk some with my mother, whom I was closer to at that time. It was very helpful to get a female's perspective when dealing with girls. The most important thing I learned was that they are just as insecure as the guys are. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

[Chauron]

Dogscoff: 11th grad is usually around age 17...

Taera: I'm in about the same position, have been all my life actually. I'm 17, just getting out of 11th myself.
I had a hard time with friends, most of the time I felt like an outcast around other ppl. I was also an only child for the first 10 years of my life. (the 10 greatest years of my life lol) So I learned how to get along fine by myself. I stopped caring about what other ppl thought of me and I stopped trying to fit in.
It took a while but I eventually found some friends, not many mind you but I did find a few. Just be yourself, like Dogscoff said, look for other comp nuts like us in your school or neighborhood. Trust me they are everywhere http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Looking for new hobbies might help. The other guys said something about community service, like a homeless shelter or something. See if your school has a Key Club.
Key Club is the largest high school orginization in the World. The Carolinas district alone (North and Souther Carolina) has 30 something divisions and 4 or 5 clubs in each one. See if you can get into one...
Church is another good place to meet ppl. I met my current girlfriend at my church. However she lives 1000 miles away from me... I'm still trying to figure that one out myself http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

About this girl... Try talking to her about your situation. If she is a friend worth having she will try and help. Don't be pushy though..
If you need to talk, you know my email...
And remember you've always got us in Legacies http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

EDIT: Ack! two ppl posted while I was writing...

[ May 21, 2003, 16:59: Message edited by: Chauron ]

[Geckomlis]

On Dating
My test scenario:
I would picture myself sitting across from her at the breakfast table, in the morning, on a weekend – 30 years from then. Not at our best grooming-wise, getting older and with no particular plans for the day. Do we still enjoy each other’s company, each other’s conversation? Do we still make the other one laugh? Probably too much strategic/long term thinking for most people, but it worked for me – the girl I married has grown into a wonderful woman and my best friend. Mentally, I had put the relationship into a healthy context from day one.

On Friendship
Get involved in activities you are truly interested in. Other people will respond positively to you socially when you are visibly engaged and enthusiastic.

[dogscoff]

Something else I just thought of, and it might not make a difference to you but there's a chance you'll find it helpful:

One way of building social/ self confidence is through physical contact. I'm not suggesting you go round hugging everyone but certain sports and activities can do wonders for your interaction with others.

Contact sports like judo/ karate/ rugby would be good but they aren't suitable for everyone so if you don't fancy that, consider a first aid course or dancing lessons. In these situations you have to be close to people in a neutral, instructive setting which really builds your confidence. There is no embarrassment involved because everyone understands that the contact is simply required.

Just another idea http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Ruatha]

Originally posted by dogscoff:
consider a first aid course or dancing lessons. In these situations you have to be close to people in a neutral, instructive setting which really builds your confidence. There is no embarrassment involved because everyone understands that the contact is simply required.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Great idea!

And even if you are embarrased, so what? It won't kill you. (You won't sink through the floor, your heart won't stop, everyone won't laugh at you. It just feels that way)
And dancing is really fun! Try rockn-roll dancing or jitterbug, that's hilarious.
Tip!And everyone is so exhausted that they are red in the face anyway so blushing don't show!

BTW: Edited my previous post, so if you've read it, re-read it!

[ May 21, 2003, 18:16: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[Narrew]

Taera,

These are great replies. Many of us are older so can talk from years of experience. I am 40 and I STILL make mistakes (social ect...), but I know that it is the way things are and that things will be ok.

My High School years were the lowest in my life, I didn't have alot of friends either, I was more nerdy I guess. I remember asking a girl to a dance, and she started crying, I found out years later she didnt know how to say no, though it messed me up then, when I got older I wondered why she just couldn't say "No, thanks". So remember this, everyone your age is learning social skills, some will be better than others. In school we are told that not making mistakes is good (ie get good grades), but in "real life" mistakes are the only way we better ourselves (well as long as we learn from them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ).

As Rutha said, if you like computers, perhaps you can go take some classes at a community college (we have fast start or some such that allows HS students to take college class's). Heck, don't limit it to computer courses. The dancing idea is a great one, you will get over being shy when you dance with older women taking courses. My Last idea would be perhaps look into something that you would never think of (or not see yourself ever doing). If you like reading books, join a book group that covers a complety different topic from what you enjoy...

Good luck friend

[Taera]

thanks a lot to you friends, there is some great advice there and just cheering up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

it is very interesting, my mood goes way down every evening to the point of complete amotivation but goes back up to normal. then comes evening.

Ah well, its not evening yet.

I have posted here because i know some of you are of averagely my mindset and might have been through the same things i have right now. i see i was right, and im glad. i dont usually share such information but this time i've no regrets.

just a notice, my situation is much worsened by the fact that this is a still new country to me, radically different from anywhere i lived before.
while i got the grip on the language my spoken part still remains low.

I guess i am lucky i got the right mind, i completely stopped all my fit-in attempts back in grade 5. from a source that isnt relevant i read "if you want others to like you you need to like yourself first. accept yourself as you are because its the only one you can be. only then you can change yourself". been amongst my guidelines since then.

thanks again. i've been doing some things right, some not. there is too much good advice to comment on each. thanks.

[Chauron]

Originally posted by dogscoff:
Something else I just thought of, and it might not make a difference to you but there's a chance you'll find it helpful:

One way of building social/ self confidence is through physical contact. I'm not suggesting you go round hugging everyone but certain sports and activities can do wonders for your interaction with others. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I play soccer myself and let me tell ya, theres nothing like nailing some guy out on the field and stealing the ball http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Getting into Team sports like Soccer/Football/Basketball etc sorta forces you to work with other ppl... now on my team there are several idiots that I don't care to be around but there are a couple guys that I have alot of fun with and we work together rather well...

[ May 22, 2003, 00:02: Message edited by: Chauron ]

[dogscoff]

The amount of ppl who have gone through the same sort of thing is amazing. I wish I'd had you guys around 10 years ago...


just a notice, my situation is much worsened by the fact that this is a still new country to me, radically different from anywhere i lived before.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well then I guess you need to do something that will help you understand the Canadians better. I'm not canadian, so the best I can come up with is to get into ice hockey. I'm sure someone else will come up with a better suggestion soon.

[Narrew]

Originally posted by Taera:
i've been doing some things right, some not. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That the only thing we can do friend. And I am sure that it is hard to believe, but it gets easier as time goes on, and if not easier, then you realize (with age) what is important.

My senior year I was an exchange student to Sweden (ha Rutha). So here I am, an over weight kid that is not popular in school (rual Indiana) and go to Sweden, and guess what, I am popular because I am different, I loose weight, then while the U.S. is doing something in El Salvador there are protestors in downtown Boras against the U.S., well another american and I are walking by them and they try to pass us some propaganda and we told them in Swedish that we were Americans, though we made no threating gestures, they backed off fast http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif So...I was the same person as 6 months earlier, just in a different setting.

I think the hardest thing will be language, more of the slang. I took English in Sweden and barely passed since American English is different from British English. I went to the movie Airplane, there is a spot where they say "its going to hit the fan now" and a pile of cow poo flies through the air and hits a fan, funny to me, but not so funny to my host parents.

I dont know how to help you there, watch movies at home to get the idea of the local humor.

[Narrew]

Originally posted by dogscoff:
Well then I guess you need to do something that will help you understand the Canadians better.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How about them 2 guys that drink beer? The McKinsey Brothers or some such. Strange Brew was one of their movies I think. Is Red Green from Canada, if not, I am sure it is close enough.

Ahh, Canadian humor...got to love it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Taera]

im trying, trying lol tho life in Israel gave me a little radical opinions on this and that lol and i often shock my social studies teacher http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
well i will get used to it, cuz canadians are (quote from a song) "too darn nice" lol
yea, thanks again.
as for ages - this is very funny (to me) but i only find mutual interests with people either younger or older than myself http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Narrew]

Well I think Israel has to be one of the hardest places to live. I can not imagine how people live any kind of normal life there (at least from my american point of view).

Keep a sense of humor when you come accross someone that is clueless about things you have experienced in Israel. A free country does not equal a smart population. There are many ignorant people out there, and as Fyron has pointed out, ignorant does not mean stupid, just lacks the proper information.

It is good to talk about it also, as someone else has mentioned, I too wish I had talked about things at your age.

[TerranC]

One way of building social/ self confidence is through physical contact. I'm not suggesting you go round hugging everyone but certain sports and activities can do wonders for your interaction with others.

Contact sports like judo/ karate/ rugby would be good but they aren't suitable for everyone so if you don't fancy that, consider a first aid course or dancing lessons. In these situations you have to be close to people in a neutral, instructive setting which really builds your confidence. There is no embarrassment involved because everyone understands that the contact is simply required.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is a very good advice to follow; as many people I've met in Calgary are inclined towards sports and the like.

Also, try to get into sports/outdoors minded option classes; as almost any high school in the city will have them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Edit: Taera, on a side note, do you take ESL (English as a Second Language) Classes? If you don't, try taking up an ESL club. You'll find many people who'll understand you there, and you'll get to practice English.

[ May 22, 2003, 01:27: Message edited by: TerranC ]

[Erax]

Taera,

When I was 11 I moved to a different part of the country with my family. My first two years at the new school were definitely the worst period of my life. Later on I made some friends, but I had no luck with dating until I got into college (too shy, I could never think of anything to say to a girl). Here's some activities that helped me along the way :

- Martial arts (for 2 years)
- High school theatre (4 years)
- Pen-and-paper RPGs (started 20 years ago, still haven't stopped)

None of these activities seemed interesting at first, but they gave me some badly needed self-confidence and allowed me to meet people and make some friends. Pretty soon I was enjoying myself, I was still shy but it wasn't terminal any more.

There is a very important epilogue to this story. There was this girl in my class who was very attractive, but we probaly spoke less than 50 words to each other during high school. When we had our 10-year high school class reunion she said something to the effect that she really admired me back in those days. So it's possible we never talked because she thought she had nothing interesting to say to me! Is that ironic or what ?

My advice is similar to everyone else's, try different activities which will make you get out and meet people, even if they don't seem too interesting at first.

Physical activity is especially important at your age because it will give you an overall feeling of well-being, which other people can sense so it will also improve your social life (I wish someone had explained this to me in these terms, my parents wanted me to practice sports but they never got beyond the 'do it because it's good for you' line).

Don't be too hard on yourself. Making mistakes at your age is practically expected (this is something else I wish I had known before).

Edit: Work on your personal life and think less about politics. My personal experience is that people, especially adults, will not listen to what you have to say about politics / economics / religion until you are 30, even if you have been saying the same things since you were 16.

[ May 22, 2003, 02:07: Message edited by: Erax ]

[Taera]

and again, good advice.
and apparently the very fact that i posted it here helped me, surprising me quite a bit. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

for one thing im now trying to maintain a positive attitude, doing 'positive' things - like saying hi to neighbours i dont even know or thanks to a bus driver - things i dont usually do.

it all narrows down to physical activities and i agree that this is important. i, though, have never been active in that area - it simply wasnt the trend in israel -- soccer was but THIS soccer.. no thanks (big, dumb, strong were all the products of this sport. no exceptions. almost.) it is a change in my life that is yet to come but i hope it will.

Re:ESL - i took ESL first few months, as my guidance councellor insisted. was a laugh, i practically did nothing there. my speaking skills are getting generally better with time because i dont speak russian a lot in school and none of hebrew. considering my hebrew experience ill never become absolutely fluent in english but im getting better. and after all, people find my accent amusing which is just fine http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: school activities - im aiming for high-grades and good university. i also only have 2 high-school years instead of three. im missing all phys.ed classes in Canada because i simply do not have space for them -- i have only one subject choice, in the end of grade 12 - and i want psychology there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif always enjoyed psychology...

Re: Church - not a religious person, plus russian-orthodox christianity background. do not go to church, at all.

Re: politics - hehe, i dont care about politics... just some general views on some aspects of life. but your right http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

even if being socail doesn't come natural, you can still learn the rules...and humor's great. just make sure you know what kind of humor your good at. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[dogscoff]

it all narrows down to physical activities and i agree that this is important. i, though, have never been active in that area ... it is a change in my life that is yet to come but i hope it will.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well you have to make that change yourself. Go and try out a few sports. My schools were all focussed on ppl with exceptional talent when it came to sport- anyone who was just mediocre like me was practically excluded. For that reason I hated all forms of excerise throughout my childhood and teens.

Then, after nearly getting beaten up one New Year's Eve- I went to a karate class. I loved it. It really changed the way I felt about myself, and for a short while I had a body like Jean-Claude Van Damme http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif One day I'll find that guy who nearly beat me up and thank him for introducing me to martial arts. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Anyway, I've been doing karate on and off for about 6 or 7 years, and I've now moved on to judo, which is just as good.

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by dogscoff:


Anyway, I've been doing karate on and off for about 6 or 7 years, and I've now moved on to judo, which is just as good.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wow, karate for seven years?
you must have at least a 2nd Dan-jo.
Which style?

I took Karate since i was 12, then I got drafted by the IDF, and while serving I took the 1st Dan-Jo test, just to be able to say that I have a black belt.
But I officially quit, I haven't learn anything since then. I guess I'm never gonna get the 2nd or 3rd Dan. Getting the 1st was hard enough, and I have forgotten a lot of the non-practical tecniques that I had to learn to pass the test.
Joshimon style, by the way.
I've heard that the Shotokan and the ****o-ryu are the most populars in Europe.

.

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by Taera:
considering my hebrew experience ill never become absolutely fluent in english but im getting better. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">On the contrary, you will get a lot better and very fluent, because the more Languages you speak the more fluent you get in all at the same time. You gonna have a fairly easier time with a 3rd language than with a 2nd.

.

[Loser]

I used to dwell on High School, going over it in my mind again and again. I came to the conclusion that, if I had to opportunity to 'go back through' that period of my life know only one thing that I know now, I would want to know how little all the things I worried about ended up mattering.

Once, when I was out with some friends, this specific subject came up and a friend voiced the same opinion I had. I was about to comment on how eerie or meaningful that was when another fellow spoke up to say that he'd rather tell his younger self "Deal coke, not weed"... which completely sidetracked the conversation.

That said, I agree with what so many others here have said: the best step to getting out of depression is physical activity. It changes your chemistry and gives you strength on a variety of levels.

I have always been puzzled by how well others seem to understand each other, always under the impression that they expected a degree of communication in which I simply had no experience. The young lady I'm currently seeing has told me that I have no social sense, no intuitive understanding of others, no connection to the common mind. It is directly because of this that I am a very social person. I have strove to gain an intellectual, conscious awareness of body language, tone, and implications. I have elevated my social skill to the point that I am regarded as odd and amusing rather than frightening or repugnant. Yay.

I believe that the way I have developed would help anyone with any sort of social troubles and it is a simple solution: make people talk. If you are at any sort of gathering (family, social, religious, sacrilegious) and you notice that one person standing, sitting, walking (but not ever dancing) by themselves approach them and try to get them talking. Question their interests, question them about their interests, find out how strange and new things work, ask them about their political interests. The goal here is not to 'talk with' someone, but to get them talking. This will require you to respond on occasion, and to prod fairly frequently. Failure to speak with one of these wall flowers will have little to no consequences; success will result in a raised level of confidence, increase in conversational skill levels, and maybe a new friend or at least a friendly acquaintance.

Next move on to strangers. Pick people doing work that does not require their entire attention, so you have less of a chance of 'bothering' them. Retail floor personnel, street vendors, anyone who looks like their day could use a little more excitement is a good choice. Start with a blunt approach, so they know what you want: "Could I ask you a few questions?" Ask them about what they do, how they got there, if they went to school for it, how they track inventory.

By this time your conversational skill should have advanced to the point that you have a much easier time 'making friends'. Remember the key to being seen as a 'good conversationalist' is to make the other person feel like talking. People like it when someone want to hear what they have to say. Now you should read "How to Win Friends and Influence People", and American self-help book from the early twentieth century. It is targeted for sales personnel, so don't be surprised if some of it isn't exactly applicable, but it is a highly helpful book.

To work on more complicated conversational techniques, play games with strangers. Really this all started with a game: "Make the Stranger Talk".

One I like is "Name Tag Collection", where I try to talk complete strangers into giving me (or selling me) something insignificant but personal, like their name tag. This requires that the person is something of a captive; retail personnel and theme park employees are best really. This is also good practice at talking to girls: males react to this game as though I am threatening them in some way, while girls do not get threatened for some time. Also, since you are laying out your goal immediately, they don't spend as much time wondering what your really after, not right away, anyway. Don't study them before you approach them, as this will give them time to notice you and start wondering, worrying, or calling security (just kidding), just walk up and ask "May I ask you a question? Would you get in trouble if you lost your name tag?"

Another good one is "Get a job". Go into a place of business and ask if they are hiring. You don't really want to work there, you're just doing this for the experience (but don't' tell them that). Ask them what they do, what the hours are like, but don't ask about pay. If they offer you an application, take it, just to keep the game going. Your goal here is to get an interview right away, so ask if there's a manager there to speak with. Now take the interview like you need the job. The great part is that you don't, you don't care. This puts you in a position of power that the interviewer won't be expecting and is great fun. It will also help you develop good interviewing skills, as you're never as secure or ready to learn when you're in the middle of a stressed-up for-real interview.

A good game to help you with inhibitions is "Sing First, Then Sell". When a telemarketer, surveyor, or charity calls on the phone, tell them that you will listen to their spiel, but only after they sing with you. The two of you will have to have a few songs in common for this to work. IF they don't immediately agree (and they never do), talk about what song you could use for a minute. Since they're still not quite ready to sing with you, tell them you'll listen if they join in on the chorus and just start singing. You don't have to know all the words or even have the melody quite right. In fact, if more fun when you aren't singing the song right.

Then pick the areas you want to work on, make up your own games, and stat adding a moment of sureality to some strangers world.

I don't' know if this will help you but I encourage you to give it a try. Talking with people who you will never see again is easy because it won't matter if you screw up, what're they going to do?

[Chronon]

Taera, I had very similar experiences in high school (it seems like many of us did). Now that I'm more than twenty years removed from them, I have a sense of perspective about them, but (surprise) they still hurt. I wouldn't go through those years again if you paid me. So, if it's any help, you're not alone in your experiences.

I'll bet, though, that you have a much better time of it at the university. You'll have a much better chance of meeting like-minded people, and he straight-jacket of conformity is a bit looser there because everyone is exploring their identities a bit more freely. Also, there are more diverse students and lifestyles, not everyone has come from the same place.

So, you have something to look forward to, but that doesn't help you now. You've already got some great advice about that, so I'll just add a couple of things here.

I have just recently started judo, and it's great. The physical activity is excellent for my depressed moods, it gives me a nice sense of mental and physical balance, and I feel more self confident dealing with people. I really should have done this when I was your age, when I really needed it (I was the hallway punching bag when I was 13). There are plenty of good martial arts available, from aikido to taikwondo, with a wide range of styles, levels of aggressiveness, and philosophical/spiritual levels. Just something to think about, anyway.

About your attractive friend - I can't stress enough what others have said here. These things take time, and friendship is an excellent way to begin a Lasting romantic relationship. My wife and I have been together for 18 years, been married for 11 of those, and she's still my best friend. Listen, really listen, to what she's telling you. Trust and good communication are the building blocks for a good relationship, and you'd be surprised at what she'll tell you about her hopes and fears if you are open to them. Eventually you will know her well enough as a friend to know if there's romance ahead. And even if there's not, you'll still be able to discuss it with her because you are good friends.

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, hold on to your dreams. Even if it takes some time, you can make them happen. For those of us who have a tough time in high school, life does get better! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[minipol]

Taera,

first off all (as other people on this forum) i didn't have an easy youth. To much to sum up here but sufice it to say that i can relate to some of your comments.
The impression that i get from your story is that you used to have a nice social life in your homecountry. If that is the case, the problem isn't your social skills rather a problem adapting to the country you're in. And maybe like you mentioned not having mastered the language in such a level so you feel confident to talk to complete strangers.

Anyhow, join a sportsclub, computerclub, chess club anything that makes you leave the house. I for example tend to be a loner yet i like people too. So i drive myself out of the house: i have started my own indoor soccer team (we are playing the cup final in the competition we are in, woohoo http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ) and i took up American Football here (Belgium). Choose something you like and join a club. really. This will let you meet people with the same interests and that will put the focus on the sport, or what the club does and not on say, you not speaking perfect english or whatever. After you have a few friends, you automatically meet friends of those friends and the ball starts rolling.

As for the girl, i wouldn't try anything if you're not at ease with yourself. Make sure you feel allright about yourself before you try anything. Otherwise it will make a relationship harder and i talk from experience. Nearly ended my relationship with the girl that now is my wife http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
But if you feel so super strongly about this girl that it hurts, i would make sure my feelings are genuine ( not a simple crush that goes away after you see another beautiful girl) and then talk to her. If you talk to her, do not immediately say: "i'm in love". Start with something humorous and give little hints that you like her and that you find her beautiful. It will give her time to adjust and not be overwhelmed.
And when you go for her, be prepared to lose her friendship although i know plenty of people who experienced something similar and are still friends with the person that had a crush on them.
So it's possible to stay friends.

Hope this helps

[dogscoff]

Wow, karate for seven years?
you must have at least a 2nd Dan-jo.
Which style?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, seven years on and off, as in "1 year training, 8 months not training > back to white belt > 1 year training > 1 year not training > back to white belt..." ...for seven years. I never got more than about 3 or 4 belts in, and this time when life got too busy to continue training (about 9 months ago) I couldn't face relearning all the same stuff from scratch yet again. So I took up Judo. I'll probably go back to karate eventually, but I need a break, and I need to get fit again.

Oh, and shotokan- always shotokan.

And Loser- Do you really play those games? LOL!

[Erax]

Originally posted by Chronon:
Taera, I had very similar experiences in high school (it seems like many of us did). Now that I'm more than twenty years removed from them, I have a sense of perspective about them, but (surprise) they still hurt. I wouldn't go through those years again if you paid me. So, if it's any help, you're not alone in your experiences.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">[shiver]. Same here, although in my case it was almost entirely verbal abuse. But yes, the memories still hurt, twenty years later.

Hmmm... maybe I should rename a couple of neutral races, scan in some images from my old yearbooks and start a Genocide Game... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Taera]

it is very funny how my thinking differs from time to time - better say mood to mood - i guess thats what they all talk about when saying 'teenagers' http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

yes, obviously this thread helped me.

(notice - the following post is made in one of my good moods. it also has a big load of me talking about myself which is very uncommon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

minipol, your impression is correct. i had a fine social life in Israel but i didnt take the right path ehre and there.. and it had built over a long time and a lot of suffering in school. bad times i dont like to think about http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

for my situation now it seems i've been pretty lucky - untill grade 8 i have almost never been beaten lol (only by big Groups) and then i abandoned all violence from my side because i didnt like it. at all. and i managed to live since then without a single quarrel with people.

and i took to great pains to remove my naturally
high shyness -- and surprisingly for the Last year-and-half ive been very successful. i taught myself not to be shy with girls and been successful so thats not an issue. what is is my lack of experience in beyond-friendship boy-girl relationships but hey, im only recently turned 17 and will have chances to learn, i guess.

just sometimes i feel very bored and very lonely on those evening lol because theres nothing for me to do *sigh* ohwell.

Thanks for the advice regarding karate and stuff. frankly as i said ive been avoiding fights and now dont have any knowledge there should i get into trouble (and my demeanor sometimes takes me to risks lol but ive been lucky till now) and i've always been interested in martial arts... just never took any.

ahh crap thats a lot of positive talking aint it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
that girl... i wont talk about that much... but i usually talk to her every day -- that is, via MSN. she's a rare kind of computer-literate girl http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
we'll see where it goes. for now, i have a good mood http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

EDIT: minipol, thought over what you said (possible fast-forgettable crush) and thought i'd add - what you said, i've considered the option too, doesnt seem so.

[ May 23, 2003, 01:48: Message edited by: Taera ]

[Loser]

Originally posted by dogscoff:
Loser- Do you really play those games? LOL!<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hell yes I do!

Taera, you should try these just for the language work. With a Russian accent you might even have an edge to play that I never would.

I am very proud of my name tag collection. The best is from Lisa in Disneyland; that one took flirting to get. Most actually come pretty easy, or just don't come at all. The rejection is part of the learning experience.

My friends often hand me the phone, should I be at their house when they get a solicitation call. They all love it when I do strange things to strangers, and the person on the other end of the phone usually can't do anything. As soon as all their employers start letting them hang up it will be much more difficult to play this game. I once brought a stop to all other conversation and activity, including corner-necking, at a party with my show-stopping horrid performance of "Sweet Caroline" by Neil Diamond; I don't know all the words (mumble bumble) and make noises for the fanfare (BA Ba ba). It was my finest moment that month.

I originally got the idea for "Get a Job" from "American Beauty". I didn't really want the no-stress McDonalds job, but I decided to see what the interview would be like: what fun! Try it!

There is another good game for learning human behavior and social signals, but it's kind of dangerous: Poker. That'll teach you a few things. Just never play with fools or sharks, never bring money you can't lose, and if you go to a casino never ever play at the table with the local retirees.

The most important game is "Make the Stranger Talk". That's the game that started it all and the one that make it possible for me to talk to strangers today. It has also forged interesting and unexpected bonds with some usfull people. Some...

[edited for content and formatted to fit your screen]

[ May 23, 2003, 03:56: Message edited by: Loser ]

[Taera]

loser, i can see how good those games are but thats not me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif its not my personality-style jokes/games yet still thanks for the advice.

[Loser]

You are quite welcome.

Looking over what I've written, I guess it wouldn't work for anyone who doesn't play the part of the clown.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
Oh well.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

forgive the people you hate...hate over even short periods of time does way more damage to you than to them. i'm doing that, and i'm alot happier.
besides, if your so annoyed all the time that you occasionally growl at annoying people, that's not good. if i went out more, i might have introduced some suriealty into some peoples lives. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Taera]

1 hated person (completely mutual and complete personalities conflict. one thing i dont regret leaving in Israel) since four years ago. i learned that lesson, thanks.

[Taera]

Q: how to deal with amotivation/'lazyness'?

[Erax]

Since you mentioned feeling 'down' in the afternoon, it could just be your daily cycle. Sun Tzu wrote something about the army being ready to fight in the morning and useless by nightfall, so it's nothing new.

Regular physical activity will give you an extra 'zip' which Lasts the whole day, even during the down-part of your cycle (that's what's so great about it, you'll feel better even when not exercising).

Improving some aspect of your situation (making some friends, for example) will reduce frustration and help fight depression.

About the girl... you said she is a very social person, but I get the feeling she isn't dating anyone else. When you feel you are ready, you could begin by asking her just that - 'You have so many friends, how come you aren't dating anyone ?' It's a classic line, it gives her a pretty good idea of your intentions but it doesn't commit you to anything, and her answer will help you decide what to do next.

[oleg]

Andrey, there should be a large Russian/Ukranian/Jew diaspora in Canada.
You can probably find few people with close mentality.
When I lived as a student in US, I had no problem
finding compatriot students !

Cheers, Oleg.

[Ruatha]

Ok, a tip from my wife the psychologist http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Brainstorm what activities you can see yourself doing instead of sitting home doing nothing (well, almost nothing).
I e going to the cinema, library whatever.
Pick one of these activities that you feel is reasonable to to, then plan when you will do it.
For example, "I'm gonna see matrix reloaded, even if I'm going myself", "I'm gonna do it saturday evening" (preferabbly as soon as possible, for example tomorrow.
If you feel like it then ask someone if they want to accompany you but thats not mandatory.
What is mandatory is to do that thing when it is planned, no matter how tired/unmotivated you are.
Then when you come home you check what it was like. Was it better to go or would it have been better to stay home (Preferably you'll end up with - Better to have gone!). Then plan another activity, and so on.

The important part is to do first and feel later.
I e, "I don't feel like going to the cinema" (Crap!) -> Go to the cinema first and then feel if you felt like going after you've been there.

Post here and say how it goes, if you have to do that the chances of you doing it are bigger (or mail me if you don't wanna post public)

So you can post here (or mail);
Tomorrow, movie Matrix
and then the next day;
Went to Matrix, was fun, Tomorrow going biking with (the girl/friend).

[ May 23, 2003, 16:23: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[Taera]

Erax: daily cycle? just as well possible. as for the girl, she isnt dating someone but she has a crush, as it seems, on that guy - some friend of a friend IIRC, from another province. complicates things doesnt it :-/ but yea she broke with her b/f some time ago

Minipol: im too inquisitive and investigative for my own good http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif im trying to put myself into the "act" position tho.
as for amotivation, well, thats the first time in my life im suffering from it. what i mean is complete lack of wish to do anything. no, thats wrong. i _WANT_ to do something but cant get myself to.

Oleg: i dont get along too well with russians as it stands. israeli/russians (i mean, those who are both) have quite a different mentality. i will be though looking into that when a chance arises.

Ruatha: interesting idea, i might start doing it. as i said previously i dont commonly talk about myself too much http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif but maybe. as for matrix i've seen that one, with the same girl http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif what yes, there's the financial problems on my side. i cant burden my parents ATM and im only now starting to look for a job

One thing that stops me from doing some things is that i am not a loner... neither am i a crowd person. i simply cant make myself go somewhere alone, which is a bad thing i know. what i mean tho, i dont like to go outside on my own or go to movies on my own etc.

[minipol]

Hmm. That's a tough one. Getting yourself motivated is the clue. And to get yourself motivated you need to know exactly what you like to do. For instance, you like SEIV and what do we see? You spend a lot of time on this forum and you invest time to play the game. So obviously you're not amotivated or lazy because you do stuff but you probably only do stuff that you like. (who doesn't?)

Get some other interests, set some goals. Doesn't matter what. On the other side, it's kind of normal to feel "amotivated/'lazyness" when you're only 17. That's normal. I think nearly everybody went through that fase. Also, i even have that now and then.

And about girls, like you said, you're 17, you've got plenty of time.

Also, you seem like a person that analyzes a lot of stuff that happens around him. If that is the case, try to not over analyze stuff. Can really start to annoy you. I used to do that and even know and then i have to say: "minipol, stop processing those thoughts over and over and over again and DO something about it rather than thinking about it all the time".
It helps. Sometimes i have to use voilence to make my brain listen to me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[oleg]

Originally posted by Taera:
Oleg: i dont get along too well with russians as it stands. israeli/russians (i mean, those who are both) have quite a different mentality. i will be though looking into that when a chance arises.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Are you sure ? I have two good friends emmigrated to Israel. I feel much more in common with them than with average "christian" russian. But it may be a generation gap. In fact, I'm pretty sad by all the corruption of money lust inflicted on the generation grown later. I can see that the young russian people you can meet are sons of "new russians" (bandits who ran the country now). Of course you can feel sick just talking with them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Taera]

yes and no, most russians here are not from 'russia' but from southern countries like Kazahstan. While its okay i dont have anything in common with them. The 'real' russians are sons of 'new russians' tho. yes.

[TerranC]

Originally posted by Taera:
Q: how to deal with amotivation/'lazyness'?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A: Drink Red Bull. No, seriously. Drink some kind of energy drink; it'll give you that itchy energy that you just wanna get rid of.

[Taera]

haha are those things are realy any good?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

and willpower helps alot. i have 'blah' days or hours sometimes, and i just tell myself 'if i do this, i'll enjoy it.' then i do whatever it is.

[Taera]

EDIT: what i posted was pointless... i edited it to make more sense

i have developed myself a strong willpower over the Last few years that helped me a lot - i often had been able to overcome the, as narf said, 'blah' moods. lately it've been kinda crushed by evening depression - ironically evenings are the time when im doing things, like 3d modelling or doing hw or writing letters or ANYTHING. im a night person, usually my inspirations strike me after 10 o'clock and im motivated to do stuff.

right now i have hard time finding myself anything to do at evenings. i dont know the reason though, i did always spend many of my evenings at home.

[ May 25, 2003, 07:09: Message edited by: Taera ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

maybe your getting bored with your evenings?

[Taera]

maybe

[dogscoff]

I'm not sure I agree with that Red Bull advice. I mean maybe it would work well for you but it just makes me think of this girl I used to know who was utterly dependent on "proplus" caff tablets. She was working really long hours (we all were) and she was unable to function without taking huge doses of this stuff and believe me she was damned scary- an unnatural amount of energy and mood swings like you wouldn't believe. Not good.

[Erax]

Yes, I second 'Scoff's advice. I went through a 'lazy phase' in my teen years and used a native natural stimulant (guaraná) to help me. It worked for me, but I strongly dis-recommend any of that.

[oleg]

What is all this stuff about "power drinks" ?
A pint of bitter and you are fine http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Taera]

i want to thank everyone here. im not yet over my depressions but im getting out of lethargic phase of it. as it always happens, im not moving to a phase where i WANT things to change.

[tbontob]

Originally posted by Taera:
EDIT: what i posted was pointless... i edited it to make more sense

i have developed myself a strong willpower over the Last few years that helped me a lot - i often had been able to overcome the, as narf said, 'blah' moods. lately it've been kinda crushed by evening depression - ironically evenings are the time when im doing things, like 3d modelling or doing hw or writing letters or ANYTHING. im a night person, usually my inspirations strike me after 10 o'clock and im motivated to do stuff.

right now i have hard time finding myself anything to do at evenings. i dont know the reason though, i did always spend many of my evenings at home.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I feel that Ruatha's spouse has made a very good suggestion. Doing something, anything will often get a person out of the rut he is in.

It does sound like you have a lot more time on your hands. Time which would ordinarily be taken up with other activities.

It could be that with the extra time is allowing you to consciously or unconsciously examine yourself. And if the standard against which you are comparing yourself is high, understandably there will be depression and "blah moods" as the discrepancy between "what is" and "what should be" may be wide.

We all need to be gentle and loving to ourselves. If we are lucky, we will have parents who can show us how to be kind to ourselves. Or we may be unlucky and have parents who have shown us how to be critical and condemning of ourselves when we miss the mark, whatever that may be.

But whatever parents we have, we still have a choice. We can either affirm we are of value, have merit and have meaning or we can put ourselves down and degrade ourselves.

Often, we do not know which camp we are in. You can discover which one it is by listening to your stray thoughts in your quiet moments. They will tell you whether you are loving to yourself and others or not.

If you are unable to relax enough to listen quietly to your stray thoughts, that may be an indication of the latter.

What to do if the discovery is negative? Reaffirm your worth to yourself. But also reaffirm the worth of others as climbing on the shoulders of others will not bring about a genuine feeling of worth.

Examine the standards which you have accepted. And when you do not measure up to these self-imposed standards, be kind to yourself. It is all part of being human and the learning experience.

[Will]

Hmmm, just now noticed this thread...

Here's an idea that didn't come up in the other Posts: get into the arts more. My school years were miserable up until the end of my junior year (11th grade). Starting then, I picked up playing guitar (Note, chicks dig: guitarists, scars, guys who can/do cook/clean, guys who listen http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif ). After that, I started leaving the house more, doing things. After that, I went to a summer program in Information Technology that was offered by Pennsylvania's Dept. of Education (I lived in PA then).

Senior year (12th grade), I kept playing guitar, took an art class (sure, I was in a class with all the freshmen, but a friend and I decided we focused too much on academics and we took it together), and just felt a lot better. I also joined the school's tennis team... which was only possible because there was just barely enough interest to keep the program alive, and the team was perpetually in the cellar for the rankings. But, I met people from other schools, and had a good time, even while losing. In fact, to this day I have yet to win a tennis match http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

As for the situation with your female friend, I don't really have any advice to offer, as I'm still working on figuring that out myself. Tried asking a girl out once, and was given a resounding "NO" in a fashion that was quite harsh... never tried again since. I'm just sticking with meeting new people until I find one who I think is worth it.

I hope all this helps you find a solution to your troubles.

[Taera]

im thinking. im yet to figure out a way for myself.

tbontob:
you are absolutely right, i have way too much spare time. this might be the reason, i agree.

and you are more right than you might want to have been. for one i have very critical parents. that says it all. as for standards, it seems that living in Canada affected these - all of Canadians are very successful at social lives and sports. My class of C.A.L.M (Carreer and Life Management) doesnt help there because the teacher builds up high standards for the class.

I do realize I need to reaffirm my self-confidence, and im looking for ways how.

Two more things that are not helping me at all - one, my family is facing some financial problems right now... meaning i cant realy do some things i would, like go to movies more. to add to this ive never had a job before - and now about to start looking for one. That will give me some money to spend... in the future.
Another issue ... i cant recall it, i will get back to it tomorrow.

Will:
your thoughts match mine, and thanks for the advice because you caused me to think it over.
i've been thinking of learning to play a guitar myself... or to play something! and art class... well, ill post my 2nd post following it, read it.

edit: nope, no 2nd post. frankly ive been considering taking art in my 12th grade myself. i guess ill do that, just because i always wanted an art class.

and will, you reminded me of one sport i always liked playing - tennis. i might try to find something here.

thanks a lot everyone.

[ May 27, 2003, 08:25: Message edited by: Taera ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

i think a person should use criticism, if they do use it, constructivly. so, "doing this might be better" good. "what where you thinking" bad. sometimes, "do that to much more and bad things will happen" good to.

[dogscoff]

My class of C.A.L.M (Carreer and Life Management) doesnt help
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Beware of any class that has a clever acronym for a title. When i was at school we had to endure "Skiils For Adolescents" classes. Take a look at the acronym. SFA. I kid you not. It was the most useless class ever, a kind of lame, directionless group counselling session with teachers that knew nothing about counselling and kids who just wanted to get the hell out of there.

(For the English=foreign language ppl here, SFA is a popular acronym for "Sweet F*** All", which you use when you want to imply "sitting around doing nothing")

As for the financial thing- yeah that can be an obstacle to broadening your experiences and enjoying a full social life. Do you have a job? Maybe you should get one, just a saturday job in a shop or something. You'd get some spending money and you'd get to meet ppl as well. It also helps overcome the amotivation because you have to show up for work whether you feel like it or not.
Finally a history of part time work while studying looks good when you leave school/ education and are looking to start a career.

[ May 27, 2003, 09:21: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

[tbontob]

Taera, whether you know it or not, you are on the right path.

You took the first step in acknowledging that you have a problem. A lot of people take years to take this step and many avoid it.

You took the second step in not keeping it a secret. That takes an enormous amount of courage. You deserve to pat yourself on the back.

You took the third step of asking for help. This too is courageous since advice comes in so many types and varieties and often there is no easy way to determine the meaningful from the less meaningful to the harmful. As a result you may feel confused and tossed about with all of it.

This may not make a lot of sense now, but in your dispair, you are being blessed.

Something deep in yourself (whether it be God, your inner self, your higher power, etc) is telling you that you need to examine something.

Only you can determine what that something is.

Only you can make the right choices when you discover what that something is.

Your parents have given you a foundation. It may be a good foundation and little work is required or it may require a lot of repair. In some cases the repairs may be so extensive that the original foundation may no longer be recognizable.

Critically examine everything, including what advice may come your way. Some things may not make sense. If they don't, consider throwing it into the back of your mind with the suggestion that the answer will come to you.

Be wary of giving up your right to choose to others. Making a mistake as a result of free choice is often preferable to making the right decision based on what someone has told you to do. Often the choices we make are the right choices for us. But even if a wrong choice is made, we can still learn from the mistake.

[tesco samoa]

You could always take a few months and work on a cruise ship.

[Ruatha]

Originally posted by Taera:
im thinking. im yet to figure out a way for myself.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">According to a proffesional standing close to me.. You are hitting the right point here.
It's actually you who have to :

a. Define the problem, what it actually is.
-Is it that you have no motivation, then why?
-Is it that you are afraid to be alone, then why?
-Is it that you are afraid of rejection, then why?
-Is it that you don't want to assert yourself (please disease)?
etc...

b, Find a solution.
- What can you do to oppose your problem?
- What is feasible, what do you think is reasonable achivable?

c. Set goals, take it step by step but set goals and ACHIVE them.
-If you set a goal, for example; ask the first person on the classlist today what he/she is going to do this weekend and if possible ask if I can tag along, if not next day ask next person on class list... I'll start this tomorrow!
Then do it.
Then asses it, did it give anything positive? Did it improve my mood? Should I do it again?

(This is my interpretation of what my wife has said while cooking as I was talking to her then, I might have misunderstood something or misinterpreted but I belive in what I've written anyway).

Good luck in solving this yourself (I don't mean to be mean, but YOU are the only one who can help yourself, even if it is asking others for help. Then it is you who are doing something, i e asking for help.
But you need to define the problem better first before you can solve it.)

[ May 27, 2003, 23:07: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[Taera]

Dogscoff: LOL, i think CALM is about the same thing for us Canadians here as SFA is. boring as hell, too.

Loser and TerranC, i view nicotine, alcohol, caffeine and worse things as easy answers with a possible bad outcome. I have never smoked, never drank too much, never wanted to touch any drugs at all. i know its not what you're getting at but its one of the few things i've set for myself, i will not be using anything to help myself if it is of stim type or to build courage or to get away from troubles. While i might be missing some experiences this has built some good qualities in me.

tbontop: thanks, and you can not worry there - im rarely taking advice as granted, im soaking ideas and advices and after processing them i use those that are good.
as for the right path, to be frank, this is the first time i have stumbled upon something too strong for me to simply overcome. i have identified the path for myself several years ago and somewhat effectively dealed with lesser problems. advice helps though.

tesco: wont help, i dont have the time for it. now its school, on summer it'll be work (i want to get some money for myself) and summer school. then its university. but a good idea http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Ruatha: i have given a very throughout thinking for the problems and their causes. i have found many causes all along my lifetime. i dont know did it help me, but i know where things have come from. I am having a problem though with defining exactly what the solution is, and the biggest problem of all is achieving my goals. its another problem im trying to overcome.

[ May 28, 2003, 02:54: Message edited by: Taera ]

[Loser]

Originally posted by TerranC:
Drink Red Bull. No, seriously. Drink some kind of energy drink; it'll give you that itchy energy that you just wanna get rid of.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A stimulant is a stimulant. Caffeine, Nicotine, Ephedrine, Methamphetamine, whatever. Humanity needs to be more careful with these things. Yes, some of them are worse than others, some more addictive, more likely to make your heart stop, more likely to cause cancer, but ain't a one of them good for you.

That said, I'm currently using a stimulant nasal spray (one of those Generic Afrin types you can't use for more than three consecutive days) because it's cheap, it works (nose clear, breathing fine), and the A-FRICKIN'-LERT side effect is a help on this stupid shift. Use them? Fine, sure. But use them carefully.

One thing most people aren't aware of is that grapefruit juice changes the way just about any chemical interacts with the body. Some drugs get their primary effect strengthened, some weakened, some have a side effect blown way out of proportion. This was mentioned briefly in popular media about three years ago when doctors began to study whether drinking grapefruit juice was causing certain seniors to have adverse reactions to their medication (and they take so much, you know). It's not the vitamin C (which I'm sure one-out-of-three people reading this are thinking), it's something else.

In the case of most stimulants, grapefruit juice will lengthen the term of noticeable effect and also decrease the degree to which your body adjusts to the chemical. This is the case for all four stims I mentioned above. In this usage, sweetened grapefruit juice is just watering down the active ingredient: more bitter is more better.

If you are going to use stims, drink some grapefruit juice about ten minutes beforehand. If you want a nice mellow, constant stim don't touch caffeine. Go for nicotine patches. Buy the biggest ones possible and cut them into quarters. But be careful, because you will get addicted. (Never ever smoke while wearing the patch, not only will it put more nicotine in your system that you will like, but it will ruin the 'quit' potential of the patch.)

[narf poit chez BOOM]

i'm going to give some faith based advice skip if you will be offended.

pray, to our heavenly father, thank HIM for all you have first, say what you want, what you feel, what you need. say what you feel you should say, and then thank HIM for HIS help and answers. end, as it says in the bible, in the name of JESUS CHRIST, amen. then, wait and have faith for an answer. and pray persistantly, to show your faith.

now that i've made all the athiests uncomfortable, i gotta go. my craft dinner's getting cold. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
that should clear it up, fyron

[ May 28, 2003, 08:41: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Fyron]

Why do you assume that atheists would be uncomfortable? Most atheists I have ever met or heard of were tolerant of other people's beliefs. It is generally the extremely religious that are the intolerant ones (except for those few extremely anti-religious, but they are just as bad as the extremely religious).

[narf poit chez BOOM]

or, if it doesn't(look at my Last post, i edited it), i don't think that. but, i know i at least, am a little uncomfortable with strong shows of emotion. i think you rate uncomfortable higher than i do. i would rate it from a minor irritant to miner annoying. but lets not start that again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ May 28, 2003, 09:13: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Loser]

Originally posted by Taera:
I have never smoked, never drank too much, never wanted to touch any drugs at all.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is a good thing. Stay away from them forever if you can. I honestly believe we would, individually, be better off without them. But I do hope you are aware of just how much caffeine intrudes on your everyday, commercial, Canadian life.

Today's Fun Auto-prescription Fun Tip from Dr. Wally

For a good time, try aggressively cutting caffeine out of your life for a month. This should include medications and over-the-counter drugs that include caffeine (such as Excedrin), as well as soft drinks and 'diet' pills.

Then, when you're good and clean and have noticed how much better you sleep at night, drink one cup of coffee at ten o'clock on a Saturday night. Do no sip this coffee, rather lower it to room temperature and consume it all at once: "slam it", as the kids say these days.

Eight hours later, when the day-star comes to point out your failure to follow the Normal People Sleeping Rules, compose some poetry.

The advice of Dr. Wally is not meant to be taken seriously: he is not real, and therefore not a real doctor.

[dogscoff]

I can vouch for that. I never drink tea or coffe, and rarely drink colas/ soft drinks. True story:

As a result I am something of a caffeine lightweight.

A few years ago it was trendy to drink red bull & vodka, and some friends and I went out and drank many of these. Many many. In a few hours I had the equivalent of about 12 strong cups of coffee (stimulant), with an equivalent quantity of vodka (relaxant) mixed in. I got home around 4am and went straight to sleep, the two drugs more or less balancing one another out.

My body began processing all the crap I had put in it and worked it's way through the vodka pretty efficiently, leaving only the caffeine.

Even though I was exhasuted from the previous night I was awake by 7 O'clock and cooking dinner by 8am. I was sweating and twitching involuntarily until about midday.

Caffiene bad.

[ May 28, 2003, 14:08: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

[Taera]

to respond to ammount of caffeine in my daily life ill first point out again that im not a native canadian, not even american - north european, russian.

my input of caffeine consists of about a liter of cola drink (whatever brand) and about one cup of coffee every three days. i drink more coffee on weekends simply because i enjoy the strong taste. luckily enough im also not strongly affected by caffeine as i often drink my coffee shortly before going to sleep and it never prevented me from falling asleep normally.

[Taera]

im just thinking, had anyone here else experienced that - when you dont know what to talk to people about? thats a problem i've been having for several years now, desperately trying to find a way around it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

if you can't think of what to say, join a conversation. works for me. still need to learn how to start one, though.

[Taera]

i can start and further, just when its over i need something else to talk about. especially with people who have slightly or realy different interests from me.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

my dad suggets asking them about themselves and, if you know something about them, ask them about something in there lives. taking into account how well you know them. people are always impressed by that. considering how many people my dad knows, it's probably good advice.

[Taera]

hmm, i am doing that - but soon i still run out of topics to talk.

[Ruatha]

Just an idea of my own(c), no wife involved http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
How about meta conversation?
i e when you don't know what to say, say;
"-When you run out of topics in a discussion, what do you talk about then?"
Getting tips from the victims so to say?

[Taera]

LOL thats a great idea there ruatha http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by Taera:
hmm, i am doing that - but soon i still run out of topics to talk.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You can always ask for more details, or for specific details. Also, it sometimes helps to have a list of topics hidden away in your wallet. A sample list (no particular order, far from exhaustive):
</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Work/School - co-workers/other students, employer/supervisor(s)/instructor(s), currently doing at</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The weather - enjoying it, favorite temperature, enjoy thunderstorms</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How did your day go / what's up / what have you been doing recently</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Music - favorite song, artist, genre; recently heard tunes</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Books - favorite story, author, genre; recently read books</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Movies - favorite movie, performer (careful with this one! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif ), director; recently seen movies</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Beliefs (Careful with this Category, but it is a must if you intend anything long term) - religion, politics, philosophy, specific issues
</font><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Note that with any such question, you will also want to ask "why?" in there somewhere. E.g.: If you ask "Do you like Bush being in the Oval Office?" you might get a yes/no response. However, if you follow that yes/no with "Any particular reason?" you are likely to get several sentences, at least.

[tbontob]

Hmmmm....

We all share the feeling of uncertainty, insecurity and awkwardness when we are with new people whose interests are a bit different from ours.

It does help to have a genuine interest in the other person as a person.

On some level this is sensed by the other person who then is likely to open about himself and more forgiving the faux pas we may make.

It also helps to remind oneself that it takes two to make a relationship and that if the other person should decline it, it is not our fault as the choice was not ours alone.

We may make a faux pax but it is always the choice of the other person as to how he is going to respond to it. To blame ourselves for the reactions of another person is taking on far too much responsibility.

This doesn't mean we shouldn't examine the faux pas and think about changing future behaviour. Quite the contrary. But we do need to be gentle with ourselves when we inadvertently make mistakes.

[Taera]

i dont know if anyone realy cares... but had just recently dawned on my, what is the real source of my troubles now.

you might have noticed by now that i have not-the-most-entertaining lifestyle. one might say, geeky or nerdy or whatever word you prefer. and yes it is so, no reason to hide from it. it is though not the way i realy want it to be.

about a year ago, back in israel, i made the semi-unconscious decision to change my life, but then moving to canada happened.

i believe its the fact that i am in a completely different, new and yet partially alien place for myself. in israel, i knew what i needed to do, where to do it, and i had my friends. here, im feeling lost.

it is good that the realization came to me, i guess now it'll be easier to solve the problem.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

This doesn't mean we shouldn't examine the faux pas and think about changing future behaviour. Quite the contrary. But we do need to be gentle with ourselves when we inadvertently make mistakes.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">apologizing also helps.

[Atrocities]

Response to the Original post.

Originally posted by Taera:
Hello everyone, first off please keep this topic serious. if it drifts away ill just ask it to be deleted. thanks.

i have some problems... and hope that some of you, at least half of which are more than twice my age, can perharps advice me about.
Some background, in september '02 i immigrated, together with ymm family, to Canada.
Now it've been almost 9 months since then.
I find myself struggling to find friendships. Overally i am a relatively quiet person but this trait is acquired. I know some psychology and know how to deal with problems, and guess i would be able to get past through this - but i would appreciate some advice.

At this moment im very depressed. I spend most of my days home, on the computer. playing games.
While this *might* be okay for someone its not for me - in school (high school, 11th grade) i can not seem to be able to make friendships. As it appears i simply do not know how.

Other side is i happen to like a girl. She's now a friend of mine but im afraid to try anything further... because chances are it'll fail (very social, very nice looking girl, much different from me) i'll lose her as a friend (most likely). this does add up to my depression.

I am also suffering from lack of topics to talk about, with just about anyone (my interests kinda differ).

I am not looking for pity, this is a problem i got myself into. But i want this solved. Any advice appreciated.

And please, do not make me regret i made this post. I do not usually make such things, I simply trust you people to be serious.

Thanks.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Depression is a horrible horrible thing to have to live with. The only advice I would ever give in public about living with the pit falls of life would be to take it one day at a time and expect it all to come and go. Get a good nights sleep, and if your really depressed, and believe me you will know when that day comes, get help before it becomes to much. Trust me on this.

Thing do work out, and they often work out well.

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Why do you assume that atheists would be uncomfortable? Most atheists I have ever met or heard of were tolerant of other people's beliefs. It is generally the extremely religious that are the intolerant ones (except for those few extremely anti-religious, but they are just as bad as the extremely religious).<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If an atheist experienced what I did this weekend, s/he would be going to church this week.

Some people may have a belief in God, but not in religion, are they considered atheist? I honestly don't know the answer to that question, but I would like to.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

athism referes to a disbelief in god. some people might argue the use of 'disbelief', but not the rest of it. and if your considering joining a religon, pray about it. read the scriptures. and if you get a warm feeling about it, i suggest joining. of course, i'm sure god would be happiest with you in my religon, which is why i'm confident in posting that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Taera]

me, im not an atheist. i believe in god, i just do not feel the need to worship.

[Will]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
Some people may have a belief in God, but not in religion, are they considered atheist? I honestly don't know the answer to that question, but I would like to.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, if you go by the technical definition, "atheist" would be one without religion. But the word is commonly applied to one who has no belief in a deity. And really, the whole entire range of people -- from those who practice "non-belief" to those who believe in some sort of deity/higher power, but without a specific religion -- are generally thrown into a vast grey area labeled "atheist/agnostic".

There are several labels that I have seen to catagorize these areas ("atheist", "agnostic", "humanist", "spiritual", "free-thinker", and on, and on, and on...), and all of them seem to be given different definitions by different people. If you ask someone what the difference between an atheist and an agnostic (the two most common labels), you will find a lot of different responses, like:
</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">"There is no difference worth mentioning, both are heathens that will burn in Hell for an eternity"
</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">"Atheists just don't believe, agnostics are 'still deciding, confused'"
</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">"Atheists are arrogant people who refuse to acknowledge any possibility of God, and agnostics are searching for the true God"
</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">"Athe-what?"
</font><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You get the idea... Personally I just think the whole catagorization thing was doomed since it was thought of in this case, since the range of beliefs in the grey-area equals the number of inhabitants. It's an intensely personal thing that defies any sort of sorting. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
So, to answer the question... it depends on who's definition of "atheist" you use http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Atrocities]

Thank you Will.

I like to believe that we as humans have the right to choose what we will or will not accept or believe in. That to be free is to be free to choose what you will or will not believe in without the fear of being chastized or persacuted (sp) for it.

I am who I am and do not like to be judged for what I think or feel, and I would hope that others would feel the same way. It is not for me to judge poeple, it is for themselves to do.

I choose to believe in God, but not religion. I have my reasons, and I feel that they are good ones. God is with me, and has saved me on many occations. Yet there have been many times when I have left to learn my own lessons in life.

Life is an adventure in knowledge gathering.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

i believe that people would have trouble gathering all the information they needed, so god put religon on the earth.

[Erax]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
If an atheist experienced what I did this weekend, s/he would be going to church this week.

Some people may have a belief in God, but not in religion, are they considered atheist? I honestly don't know the answer to that question, but I would like to.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">According to the Catholic Church, you would not be an atheist but you would be a heretic. But then so would all Protestants. This is a word that you don't hear a lot these days, BTW, but it's still the official definition.

[tbontob]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
This doesn't mean we shouldn't examine the faux pas and think about changing future behaviour. Quite the contrary. But we do need to be gentle with ourselves when we inadvertently make mistakes.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">apologizing also helps.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, I agree.

But with or without an apology, it is still the choice of the person as to how he is going to respond to the behaviour or behaviour/apology.

It is not uncommon for a person to carry a grudge even when all attempts of reconciliation have been tried including apologies.

[Atrocities]

i believe that people would have trouble gathering all the information they needed, so god put religon on the earth.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It can also be regrettibly said that man invented religion as a means to control people. Play upon their fears and use that fear to make the weak minded or fearful do as you wish.

Or one could also say that God tought man religion in order to give a privelaged few the power to control the masses.

Either way you cut it, religion has resulted in abuses of power of people, and in many cases lead to wars, death, and terrorism.

So if a person chose the values of God without the mindless following that is dictated by a religion, one is labled a name by those who control the said religion and therefor will be cast out of heaven.

Ya right, and they have a red phone that links them directly to GOD. They have been empowered to speak for God by god. I don't think so, and I, as a free sole, choose to believe in God, and not religion, and I know that God has not foresaken me because of this. And how dare some one ever emply that he has.

[ June 03, 2003, 15:01: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

[tbontob]

Originally posted by Taera:
[QB]i dont know if anyone realy cares... QB]<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Taera, you may want to take a look at this area.

It has to do with a sense of self-worth.

Some of us get our sense of self-worth from others. If they like us or if they care then we are worthy, of value and deserve to be liked/loved.

In such a case, we are dependent upon others for our sense of worth and well-being.

You may also wish to examine your definition of "caring".

Please do not take the following examples as an attempt to fit you into one of them. They are given by way of explanation only. I often get into trouble when I give examples and they are taken personally. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Some people define it as "listening when I am in real trouble". By this definition, we will find someone who will listen and feel that people care.

If we define it as "listening to me ad nausia", well, there are fewer people willing to do this.

If we define it as "listening to me on demand whenever I want it and have to listen it to ad nausia", we would be very fortunate to find such a person.

And we are in real trouble if we expect most or all people to exhibit the level of care we want.

But it may not be listening at all. It may be something else which you feel falls short of the standard of caring which is expected.

Whatever the standard, it does need to be examined if you feel uncared.

On a somewhat similiar vein, but taking it from the perspective of the care-giver, some of us buy the care we want. So we shower the person with gifts, take them to restaurants etc.

Both parties need to examine the basis of their sense of worth/value.

I saw a poster once. "God loves me because he don't make no junk!"

If we can accept that we are worthy and loveable for all our warts, mistakes, errors and indiscretions, then we will have a sense of worth that transcends all that happens around us.

And this applies to criminals who by societal standards make the most serious mistakes.

Some people go though their whole life without examining this question. Those who do, often find it is a lifetime journey.

[Erax]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
It can also be regrettibly said that man invented religion as a means to control [...]
I know that God has not foresaken me because of this. And how dare some one ever emply that he has.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm sure this wasn't aimed at me directly. For the record, my views are similar to yours. But I decided I would study religious doctrine so I wouldn't be caught by surprise in certain situations.

[Alpha Kodiak]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
If an atheist experienced what I did this weekend, s/he would be going to church this week.

Some people may have a belief in God, but not in religion, are they considered atheist? I honestly don't know the answer to that question, but I would like to.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I hope that what you experienced was good rather than bad, Atrocities. Both types of events can lead one to seek God, but it often seems that troublesome events are more likely to get us searching for something more than ourselves.

As for your question about atheism, a person who believes in God would not be an atheist. In fact that person would not really be agnostic, since agnostic (Greek - "without knowledge") refers to a person who is not sure whether God exists or not.

A deeper question is, what do you do with your belief? I totally agree with you in one of your other Posts that God does not foresake you because you do not believe in religion. I do believe that the main reason we are on this earth is to have a relationship with God. I also believe that I am unable to have that relationship in my own strength, because I am imperfect, but I believe that God has provided a way for me to have a relationship with Him in His strength. Yet believing in something, but not acting on that belief is almost like not believing in it.

Rather than post again about my views of Christianity, with which many who read these threads are no doubt familiar, I would encourage you to honestly ask Him what His will for you is. You know He is with you, and you know He is taking care of you, so trust as well for Him to reveal to you what the next step in your relationship should be.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

religon's of all types have been used by corrupt people. that is why one must have a personal relationship with god. to simply condemn all religons for the corruptions of a few people is a mistake.

[ June 03, 2003, 22:00: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
religon's of all types have been used by corrupt people. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A more general Version of that statement is also true: Orginizations of all types have been used by corrupt people to do evil things.

[Taera]

tbonbop, a small confession here, there were only two people who i'd talk to about my problems, and when they were there i didnt have problems to talk about. those two are left in israel. there is no person right now i'd talk to about my problems, each one having a different reason for me not wanting to.

i have posted it here simple because i have spent a lot of time around the people here, as well as i do believe you to be adult people. (and my belief here was justified)

self esteem... i have problems there im trying to solve now.
what yes, one of my... questions? ... is that i dont want to receive pity. sincere or not, pity is pity... feels and sounds wrong.

regarding this particular post, i saw what i wrote - "dont know if anyone cares". in this context though it was more along the lines of the fact that it is a self-discovery i made that i dont know if anyone is interested in knowing. i still posted it here, to kind-of summarize my previous line of thinking and show you, all of you, that you had helped me at least to understand this.

and i want to respond to the thread of religion. this is a much-debated over topic. i, with my sometimes bitter and critical point of view, and i will disagree with you all. religion is a way to a neverending question of humankind, and soul problems. dont tell me im blaspheming in next sentence. god may exist and may not (my beliefs tend to be towards the former) but the belief had not once given people an answer, a solution or a new life. i speak from a non-worshipper point of view, religion is an incredible invention of humankind that had not once united differnt people, helped persons and Groups and nations to survive or to find an answer.
All you can blame on religion is ultimately the fault of the man. as such you can also say biology is the worst invention of the human race - it is the ultimate killer against which there is no escape whatsoever. a recovering patient would not agree with you.

religion is an answer, not means for anything. some people though take beliefs too far, and it is a common humanly trait. and there are always those willing to use the opportunity. when religion becomes fanatiscism it is not religion. it is fanatiscism. hence the different word. and you cannot confuse or even connect the two.

[tbontob]

Yes and the early Christian church was no exception.

It is a little known fact that when Constantine made Christianity the state religion in the 4th century, the Christians turned around and started to persecute the Nestorians.

Until then, the Nestorians were a legitimate sect of Christianity believing that Jesus was totally human. This changed with the Council of Nicia where the Nician Creed was passed which states that Jesus is both totally human and totally divine.

The Nestorians were an Eastern sect and the persecution went on for centuries. Some scholars believe that they were eventually absorbed into the Muslim faith which believes Jesus is a prophet but not divine.

Many of us think of Christianity as a bush growing out of one central source. Scholars now tend to view Christianity as a hourglass with an early explosion of different forms of Christianity followed by a restriction and then expanding again with Protestantism.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

taera, without the answers and support my religon gives me, i would be in worse shape, even if i beleived in god. i could find out answers to my problems with my own faith in god, but i wouldn't be prepared with them beforehand. and i believe if all people truly loved and cared for each other, our problems would disapear fast. case in point: do you rob or kill someone you love? no. so there's war and theft gone right there. and my religon helps me a lot with that.

[tbontob]

Taera, I hear you.

Pity has a connotation of condescension. That the person is not quite right. That he is defective in some way.

But none of us are perfect beings. And if one of us were perfect, what is he doing here? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

My feeling is we are on this earth to learn something. What each of us need to learn is different for each individual.

I also believe we visit this realm numerous times. Sometimes as a male and sometimes as a female. I may be Jewish in one life, Christian in another and an agnostic in the third. Or something else.

Is it true? I don't know. I certainly cannot prove it. But to my mind it is just as valid as the Christian belief that we have one life and either end up in Hell or sitting on the right hand of God himself. For Christians cannot prove the validity of that belief however much they may point to the Bible.

If you have taken philosophy, you know you can neither prove the existance of God or disprove his existance. So it all comes down to faith.

People often ask me if I am religious. My answer is no as I do not adhere to any religion. I feel all religions have something to teach us.

But I do believe in God/higher power/greater being etc. I believe in the brotherhood of man. And one of the many lessons we need to learn is how to be compassionate to others who have fallen upon hard times.

Still wanting to put me into some sort of Category, they ask or state "You are spiritual". I answer "Yes", but that does not in any way make me special for I believe we are all spiritual beings temporarily cloathed in flesh.

And I hear you about fanaticism. At the risk of offending Christians, I belief Christ was able to convey only a little of what he knew/discovered. Like a child who could not understand Calculus if we tried to explain it to him, we are like children with the mysteries of the universe.

So you are wise to be skeptical of fanaticism. It can be a trap, since fanaticism implies an intolerance of other beliefs.

But lot of people are drawn to it as it overlays the uncertainties we feel in life and can give a feeling of security in an insecure world.

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by Chief Engineer Erax:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Atrocities:
It can also be regrettibly said that man invented religion as a means to control [...]
I know that God has not foresaken me because of this. And how dare some one ever emply that he has.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm sure this wasn't aimed at me directly. For the record, my views are similar to yours. But I decided I would study religious doctrine so I wouldn't be caught by surprise in certain situations.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh dude, no, my comment was in no way directed at you or any member of this forum. Please forgive the generalization of my post. Chief Engineer Erax I honestly am sorry if I made you think that my post was directed at you. It was not directed at any one.

[Taz-in-Space]

..Taz zips in and 'steals' the 100th post!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Taera]

*/me shrugs*
i dont intend it to become the new neverdying thread.

[Suicide Junkie]

Originally posted by Taz-in-Space:
..Taz zips in and 'steals' the 100th post!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Too bad you missed it by one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[tbontob]

Originally posted by Taera:
*/me shrugs*
i dont intend it to become the new neverdying thread.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh no! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

What about the rest of us who gain a sense of worth in your recovery? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif j/k

[Taera]

no reason for party yet

[Erax]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
Chief Engineer Erax I honestly am sorry if I made you think that my post was directed at you. It was not directed at any one.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey, no need to be sorry, I knew your comment wasn't for me, but a third party might read it and get the wrong idea. I'm glad we've avoided any misunderstanding.

Just call me 'Erax' BTW, I added on the title because of the 'Bar Trek' thread (those of you who don't post there should try it sometime). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Ruatha]

Hi there again.
just wanted to emphasize one thing I might already have said.
Do first, feel later.

Don't sit around thinking "I really ought to do this, but it's tiresome, not fun when I'm alone, booring" or whatever.
If you get any idea, "Maybe I should go ut cycling to the park," or anything. Then do it and feel afterwards, don't ponder the issue.

And as many has said, there is an end to it, and if you stick in long enough it's a bright end where things will turn around.

How about those two in Israel that you could talk whith, any contact through the internet, e-mail, ICQ or whatever? You can still discuss with them, they still know you.

[Wardad]

Originally posted by Taera:
no reason for party yet<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">ANNOUNCING the NO REASON TO PARTY party!!!

[Taera]

ruatha, lol, you're hitting the point, im trying to make myself do stuff. with little success but i have some plans im going to do. and i _am_ going to do it. i've been into "yes ill do it... no i wont" too long, about time i stepped over it.
(dont have a bicycle http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif )

and those two people, well, of all people i know in israel they're the only ones who dont have internet at all.

[tbontob]

Do they have access to the net?

Like do they have a friend who would be willing to allow them the use of their computer?

If so, you could chat with them if you can arrange a mutually agreeable time beforehand.

Also the telephone is pretty cheap nowadays if you get on one of the plans. But if there are financial considerations, the net may be the better choice.

[Taera]

theoretically it is possible to get them Online... we have mutual friends who have internet. and also the phone, yes. but... i dont know. for some reason i dont... well, dont know. personally id prefer a face-to-face talk. it.... somehow feels wrong to call someone simply to complain about my troubles.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

call them. there's nothing wrong with it, your not calling collect.

[tbontob]

Originally posted by Taera:
theoretically it is possible to get them Online... we have mutual friends who have internet. and also the phone, yes. but... i dont know. for some reason i dont... well, dont know. personally id prefer a face-to-face talk. it.... somehow feels wrong to call someone simply to complain about my troubles.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Taera, it is the rare individual who goes through life without a crisis of some sort. Some of us have many crisises.

When I had my first one I felt the same way and I have regreted it.

My friends were very supportive but being somewhat independant, I felt I was a burden to them. Later, I learned I wasn't and they wished that I hadn't withdrawn.

A real friend will be there for a friend. Only he knows when it becomes a burden for him. So, if it does happen, let him be the one to tell you that it has become too much for him to handle.

If you are still troubled about this, then be upfront about it. Tell him/her that you fear you may become a burden and when that happens you want to be told. Let them decide on whether it has become a burden for them.

Most people feel good when someone approaches them for an ear.

The major exception may be if they are stressed out themselves about something. Two things can happen then. They tell you it is a bad time and they have little resources available to explore your situation. Or you both really connect and share your difficulties with each other.

[Taera]

there are a couple things pausing me there.

first, as i've put it elsewhere, ive never spilled my troubles before anyone. as a matter of fact ive all too often had been on the receiving end. as such i dont usually feel comfortable telling people my deeper secrets & thoughts. as i said, this topic is a very rare exception because when i posted it i was in a very, very deep depression every evening, and it, well, was driving me crazy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

second... well, that might sound silly, but i like my privacy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif if i call them my talk _will_ get emotional and.. well, there are my parents (to answer the unasked question, i dont give them all my heart secrets). If i get them to talk from someone's ICQ it will ultimately be seen by someone else and, well, i dont feel comfortable when my talk is being watched (very silly but true).

i... dont know. i might follow the suggestion and talk to them. soon.
and yes, i know i myself am complicating the issue http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[tbontob]

Nothing is silly about our feelings. They exist and are very real.

There appear to be barriers. Explore them. "What do I feel about this?" If your stomache tightens or your mind races, ask "What is it about _______that is causing this reaction?" Ask "Is it ________? If your stomache tightens or your mind races you have found something out. Continue asking until you feel you have a handle on the barriers which are preventing you from contacting your friends.

At some point you are going to have to make decision on whether to contact your friends or not. Avoiding the decision is still a decision.

So explore the conditions which will make you most comfortable to call them. Maybe then the first call can be made.

[Taera]

this now is an old topic, and i guess its about time for it to sink into the old threads place... but before it does so i'd like to thank everyone for their support. no, my life isnt perfect yet - in fact not much had changed since but im over my doom moods. i've some plans for the summer that'll get me out and some of my school aquitances might next year come to be friends. likely. i'm counting my blessings, as i usually do. thanks everyone.

an interesting note. no im not trying to spark a discussion in this thread (thats the longest thread ive ever started btw, 8 pages i mean). my computer had fried two weeks ago. it is expected from a person who, like me, spends a lot of the computer, to feel horrible when that happens. i dont. i spend some time on my parents' computers, read through books. i didnt feel anything when it happened, just somewhat annoyed at not getting the right things to do (the other pc's are slower) and... susprisingly some minor relief.

[ June 20, 2003, 06:40: Message edited by: Taera ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

no doom moods sounds like big improvement.
and maybe you need some time off from the computer. sometimes, hobbies can suck up to much time, and then it's time to take time.

[Ruatha]

I belive I've said this before.
I quit with computers in 1987 (sold them) and didn't use one regularly until 1992, the best thing I ever done.
Changed job career and started being much more social.
Now I'm using it regularly again but in a different phase in life so it doesn't have such an impact anymore.

[ June 20, 2003, 10:55: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[minipol]

Well, i'm in the process of finding a new job. I work in IT and it can be a big difference of what company you are in. I'm working in an IT firm that focuses on e-business. But working in an IT firm opposed to a company not in the IT sector (but still being imployed in the IT departement) can be a *huge* difference.

You get to be more social in the latter that in a pure IT firm or you would have to be a sales or support person. That's why i want to move. Starts to tick me off.