this is a thread to attract SE4 forumers to the first Dungeon Oddessy roleplay thread

[Jack Simth]

Narf - looking forward to it.

SJ - That game is sooo unrealistic; people don't splatter when they fall long distances onto hard surfaces, they hit terminal velocity long before they reach a speed they'd splatter at. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ August 19, 2003, 20:58: Message edited by: Jack Simth ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

don't hold your breath. i'm tired. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
don't hold your breath. i'm tired. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Don't worry - I'm looking backward at it now. Now I'm looking forward to Jack's.

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Dang it, when is that Jack fellow going to post?

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Oh wait, I'm Jack. Back in a bit.

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Edit 1: Okay, I'm back.
As for the tree - I've seen professionals take trees down before; an old maple on my parents' lot. They took it down in three sections, and even with the chunks falling just the distance to the ground, you could feel the ground move under your feet each time. One chunk bounced and brushed the neighbor's truck - just brushed, mind you - and the door handle was pushed flat into the door. Had it actually hit the truck on the way down, it wouldn't have been recoverable. Imagine what an entire tree, dropped from a few hundred feet up, would do to those below. Even if everyone ran out of the way in time, it would have severe psychological impact. 300 feet gives about four or five seconds to notice and get out of the way; 100 yields two or three: Time = sqrt(HeightInFeet/16), roughly in standard Earth gravity, ignoring wind resistance; it would be possible to run out from under, if you were watching the sky. Not that anyone would be - they'd be watching the manor. Well, maybe after the forest incident, they would be. Hm.

Edit 2: You know, we really only need to delay the bandit army until the baron arrives with his men. Once that occurs, the bandit army will will be stuck between a larger army and the mannor's defended walls. Not a very safe location to be at.

[ August 20, 2003, 09:11: Message edited by: Jack Simth ]

[Krsqk]

Once again, Arthur's alter ego seems to have been irretreivably tangled in Real Life(tm). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I've been getting ready this week for our school's open house so I can say hi to all the parents who didn't show up to see their kid's teacher. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif I'll try to get a post in sometime this evening, once I see exactly what Jack's tree is all about. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[edit]This teacher used an apostrophe - s instead of a plural. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif Obviously I have sleep deprivation.
[edit 2]I fixed the wrong apostrophe - s. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[ August 23, 2003, 02:47: Message edited by: Krsqk ]

[Krsqk]

Ok, I've posted. I didn't do anything with the tree, although now it should make a small tidal wave as well as a thump. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif I figured one of you two could have fun with that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

well, it's my turn.
how come nobody used the magic items i gave both sides? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
how come nobody used the magic items i gave both sides? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Two reasons:
1) I had a few things to take care of already (tree and weather suggestion, which made for an average sized post; a good place to stop)
2) I'm inclined to let you do most of the NPC control - you do a very good job of it.

Well, okay - three reasons:
3) I didn't have any good ideas for what to have them do.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

well, it's nice to know i'm good at something. for future reference, if you want to make a magic item, you can always take a normal item an change it. for example: grenades - glass spheres with a fireball inside.
toilet paper - really. long, winding sheets that seek and bind people.
cd's - sharp metal disks that cut through things and return to their owner.

except for the grenades, those are all objects in the room with me. and there's a squeeze tube of something that could be used as a model for an alchemical flame-thrower. ah. bathtub silicon sealant.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Krsqk, i hate to be a bother, but are you sure it would produce a yard of mud?

i really do hate to be a bother.

[Krsqk]

With the castle on a hill, I think it could have a yard of mud if it borrowed some from the hill. I don't remember my post and I need sleep--if it needs editing to conform to that, I'll do it tommorow. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Ahhhhh, sleep....................ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz

[narf poit chez BOOM]

ok, that's what i was thinking. just wanted to be sure no laws of phsysics are broken.

i mean, more than you have to mess with them to include magic.

[Jack Simth]

Krsqk - I believe it is your turn.

[Krsqk]

A post is already in the works...

[edit]It's up. Feel free to satisfy my curiosity about the lead. Arthur could always transmute something. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ August 28, 2003, 06:06: Message edited by: Krsqk ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Arther only has three finger's on his right hand?

[Jack Simth]

He did pretty much say that, didn't he, with "on the three fingers of his right hand".

Krsqk, if you cut the "the" out, that part goes away, and it becomes "on three fingers of his right hand", which does not imply Arthur only has three fingers on his right hand, just that he limited his counting to three fingers. One little word can make a considerable difference.

If you meant to say Arthur only has three fingers on his right hand, leave it in; if you didn't, it can be easily fixed.

Oh, and narf - it's your turn.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

your talking to a guy who spent most of today on his feet. consequently, for some reason, his brain is tired.

ok, you can make jokes now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Krsqk]

Yep, the "the" is supposed to be there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Of course, I did leave open the possibility of a thumb.

[ August 28, 2003, 21:11: Message edited by: Krsqk ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

did Arther ever carry any evil ring of power? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

that joke assumes you've read lotr.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

lead into gold, Jack? i have a feeling i should go 'tsh, tsh', so tsh, tsh. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ August 30, 2003, 08:18: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
lead into gold, Jack? i have a feeling i should go 'tsh, tsh', so tsh, tsh. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As far as Jack is concerned, gold is little more than worthless ash, and he will treat it as such. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Sure, it's pretty and lends itself well to jewelry (holding a harnessed uncertainty jewel on a finger, for example), but beyond that he's just going to bury it as garbage when he's done burning the lead.

Besides, it was an alchemist that discovered the process, and that was the touted goal of alchemy way back when it first started. Of course, after the process was discovered on Jack's world, the goal became turning gold into lead, as that was the new currency metal....

[ August 30, 2003, 08:57: Message edited by: Jack Simth ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

you do realize now where going to have to do a financial revelution as well as a magical one, don't you? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
you do realize now where going to have to do a financial revelution as well as a magical one, don't you? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The transition could be smoother than you might think; at first, the only a few things happen: lead suddenly beocomes very valuable to mages, mages become more powerful, and mages get a new supply of gold. However, it is a destructive use of the lead, so over time there is progressively less lead and more gold in the system, making lead rare and gold common. Moreover, as people catch on that mages, especially the power hungry variety, are willing to pay well for lead (the process would return 95% of the weight of the lead in gold, so they would have much gold available for buying lead) lead is going to go up in value overall as people begin to charge more, and gold down in the same as it becomes more common. This would accelerate as magic becomes more commonly known, and after a while you'd get a gold/lead standard debate similar to the gold/silver standard debate that happened in the US a long while back. However, the above factors would continue to press the issue, and sooner or later people would start switching currencies, although there would likely be a transitional period where both made for perfectly acceptable currency. It could readily be a slow change, rather than a sudden revolution. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Besides, it may not affect MOTMA much; if only a few know the technique, it would cause no more impact than a few productive gold mines. The value of gold and lead would change locally, but globally things would stay about the same for a long, long time, unless the technique spreads.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

a bunch of power-hungry mages won't want to get there hands on a new power source? gonna have to keep it a secret in that case. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ August 31, 2003, 00:58: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
a bunch of power-hungry mages won't want to get there hands on a new power source? gonna have to keep it a secret in that case. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh, they will, but there are some catches - if there are only a small handful of mages that can, the value of lead stays down and the value of gold stays up, both of which are very good financial incentives for that small handful to maintain the knoweledge as a secret. Moreover, if only a small handful know how, that handful can dominate those mages that don't reasonably easily, which grants the mages who know how power over their fellows who don't. There is as strong of incentive for the power-hungry mages to maintain it as a sectet as there is for other power-hungry mages to discover that secret - but the ones in the know have the advantage, as they have a lot more energy to play around with; unless the mindset of cooperation and information sharing is already present or becomes present, the situation would reach equilibrium with a very small number of mages knowing how to burn lead. Most likely, the knoweledge would die with that handful.

Also, there is another catch Jack hasn't mentioned, as it isn't important to him: even if the process is 99.9% efficient, there is still the matter of a waste energy release of the rough equivalent of burning 12,500 gallons of kerosene for every pound of lead converted, or the energy of about 430 pounds of TNT. Jack's immortal - he can just jump in a large body of water, do the conVersion there, and repair the burns that would normally be fatal (the water would absorb much of the energy, but the resultant steam would push away the rest for a bit; anything nearby would still be sorely burned). Those without really good healing skills and the ability to deal with a lack of air or without invulnerability to heat and radiation are going to be at a severe disadvantage when converting lead, as almost nothing could survive the inferno intact. This will sharply limit the energy most could gain by the process.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

a magical nueclear reaction chamber...but still, most mages wouldn't have the power or ability to make one.

[Jack Simth]

A magical nuclear reaction, anyway. The spell that does the conVersion includes the energy harvest, but it can't catch all the energy. The energy that escapes rules out most mages as surviving burning the lead, unless Jack's medium or advanced immortality techniques are known by the mage. It also rules out doing it remotely by enchantment, as the medium the spell is on wouldn't survive. The caster must be present, and must remain throughout, so the ability to ghost is pretty much required. To get good use out of the process, one needs to be able to return from ghost form to living form..

[narf poit chez BOOM]

no, i mean an actual magical nuclear reaction chamber, built like a nuclear reacter.

[Jack Simth]

Ah, you mean to get around being at the center of the bLast? Possibly doable, but modern nuclear reactors don't have internal detonations - they accelerate radioactive decay and use the radiation to heat water in order to drive a steam engine, which is hooked up to an electric generator.

Of course, having the power generation in a building (a fixed location) would be a decidedly limiting factor on how much territory a mage relying on it could control, wouldn't it? Also, it would be a pretty major undertaking, as the physical building needs to be constructed, enchanted to absorb the useable energy, and enchanted to withstand the unuseable energy - likely without a major power source during construction. It would probably end up being a guild installation, not under the control of any one mage.

Interesting thought.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

and if the alchemists and psionic's learn that the mage's guild is going to get more powerfull, they may have problems.

way i've been thinking, mage's are most powerfull in this world, but there's no real reason. on the other hand, two guild's just as powerfull, no real conflict...could be a good solution. both other guild's lean on the mage's to forget the whole thing...at least, until they find out a way to boost there power.

unfortuenatly, the only thing i can think of for psionic's is crystal's and my sense of cliche's doesn't like that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
and if the alchemists and psionic's learn that the mage's guild is going to get more powerfull, they may have problems.

way i've been thinking, mage's are most powerfull in this world, but there's no real reason. on the other hand, two guild's just as powerfull, no real conflict...could be a good solution. both other guild's lean on the mage's to forget the whole thing...at least, until they find out a way to boost there power.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Impregnate a structure with enough damping dust and the mages' guild can scarecly do a thing about it. Coat an explosive potion in damping dust and the mages' guild can't touch it nor see it coming magically.

And remember, the process started out as alchemy, with the full release of energy (5% of the mass - that's about five times the release of a normal nuke, per pound of active material) - the alchemists could take out a reactor quite easily, as it uses the principals of alchemy.

Hang on - Psionicists are immune to alchemical defenses; mages have spells that block psionics, and alchemists make powder that neutralize magic. Skilled/powerful of each can get around the restrictions (mage overloads dust, psi catches mage off gaurd, alchemist uses exploding potions), but still - it's a rock/paper/scissors situation, isn't it? That could lead to a balance quite quickly; psionicists aren't a threat to the mages' guild, but the mages' guild will hire them if need be to get the alchemists off their back. The mage's guild has good reason to keep the psionicists available, and aren't threatend by them. The alchemists' guild isn't threatened by the mages' guild, but will hire them if need by to get the psionicists off their back. The alchemists have good reason to keep the mages available. The psionicists aren't threatened by the alchemists, but will hire them to get the mages' guild off their backs if need be, and so has good reason to keep the alchemists available. Hmm....

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
unfortuenatly, the only thing i can think of for psionic's is crystal's and my sense of cliche's doesn't like that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Some ideas:

Hive mind: similar to a circle of mages, but for telepaths. Increses the functional distance of psionic effects and their power (harder to resist mental influence, more mass can be moved via telekenisis, et cetera), as well as pooling abilities, knoweledge, and skill from those involved in the hive mind.

Mindswap: A forbidden practice used by some skilled telepaths to prolong life. The psi trades bodies with the victim, keeping all abilities of the target based on physiology, but not their skills, memories, nor abilities based on mental ability.

Borrow skill: The psi temporarily borrows a skill from the target. Using the skill requires an active telepathic connection to the target, but it does not inherently alert the target to the psi's presence.

Lend skill: The psi temporarily lends a skill to the target. Using the skill requires an acive telepathic connection to the target.

Learn skill: The psi learns a skill from a target, without the target's knowledge. Requires telepathic contact with the target, but the learned skill is permanent. The time required to learn a skill depends on the complexity of the skill, the skill level of the target, and the skill level of the psi.

Teach skill: The psi teaches a skill to the target. Requires telepathic contact with the target, but the learned skill is permanent. The time required to teach a skill depends on the complexity of the skill and the skill level of the psi.

Rider: The psi can hitch a ride inside another's mind. The psi is limited to their own psionic or magical abilities for information, communication, or action, and does not have access to the target's memories, skills, senses, actions, et cetera unless the psi would be able to do so under normal circumstances via psionics or magic. Hitching a ride on another requires that the target be in telepathic contact with the psi when the ride is hitched; after that, the psi is not present in his/her body, and uses the target as the base for any range determination, including getting back into the psi's original body or jumping to another host.

Borrow senses: similar to borrow skill; the psi sees what the target sees, feels what the target feels, hears what the target hears, et cetera. This is limited to physical senses only; for psionics, see relay.

Lend senses: similar to borrow senses; the target gains access to all the psi's senses that the psi cares to lend.

Relay: allows a psi to act as a relay for another psi's abilities, allowing the distant psi to use their abilities as though they were at the relay's location. Multiple relays can be used. The psi whose abilities are being relayed must be within the relay's range.

Psionic projection: allows a psi to separate from their body, and travel without it. The body is unoccupied while the psi is away. The psi's skill determines how long the psi can go without a body, and how long the psi's body can go without a mind. The psi can rest as a rider, above, if the psi has that ability. While projecting, the psi can only interact with the normal world via psionic abilities or magic, as per rider, above.

Clairvoyance: The ability to see at a distance. Very useful for riders or projectors.

Claiaudiance: The ability to hear at a distance. Very useful for riders or projectors.

Clair(other): Of course there is one of these to match each base sense, but I don't remember all the names....

Psychometry: The art of learning the past of an object, person, or place available to the psi. Skill determines how far into the past the psi can read, power determines how close the target has to be to qualify as available.

Possess: A forbidden practice. The psi takes full control of the target, including the target's senses, skills and abilities (mundane, magic, or psionic). The victim does not remember anything from the moment of possession to the moment of release.

Imprint: The psi can imprint a memory or message into a physical object, which is then easily read by any psi with psychometry (similar to reading and writing, but for psi's only and based primarily on memory; any sense impression or thought can be imprinted).

Dreamwalk: Allows a psi to use any of their abilities normally under concious control while sleeping or unconcious (but not if killed).

[ September 02, 2003, 06:41: Message edited by: Jack Simth ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

hmm...

Hive mind: similar to a circle of mages, but for telepaths. Increses the functional distance of psionic effects and their power (harder to resist mental influence, more mass can be moved via telekenisis, et cetera), as well as pooling abilities, knoweledge, and skill from those involved in the hive mind.

more cliche than crystal's

Mindswap: A forbidden practice used by some skilled telepaths to prolong life. The psi trades bodies with the victim, keeping all abilities of the target based on physiology, but not their skills, memories, nor abilities based on mental ability.

i don't really want to turn psionic's evil.

Borrow skill: The psi temporarily borrows a skill from the target. Using the skill requires an active telepathic connection to the target, but it does not inherently alert the target to the psi's presence.

see above.

Lend skill: The psi temporarily lends a skill to the target. Using the skill requires an acive telepathic connection to the target.

used in a 'hivemind' way, is less cliche. possible.

Learn skill: The psi learns a skill from a target, without the target's knowledge. Requires telepathic contact with the target, but the learned skill is permanent. The time required to learn a skill depends on the complexity of the skill, the skill level of the target, and the skill level of the psi.

still don't want to turn them evil.

Teach skill: The psi teaches a skill to the target. Requires telepathic contact with the target, but the learned skill is permanent. The time required to teach a skill depends on the complexity of the skill and the skill level of the psi.

used in a 'hivemind' way, is less cliche. possible.

Rider: The psi can hitch a ride inside another's mind. The psi is limited to their own psionic or magical abilities for information, communication, or action, and does not have access to the target's memories, skills, senses, actions, et cetera unless the psi would be able to do so under normal circumstances via psionics or magic. Hitching a ride on another requires that the target be in telepathic contact with the psi when the ride is hitched; after that, the psi is not present in his/her body, and uses the target as the base for any range determination, including getting back into the psi's original body or jumping to another host.

well, it wouldn't be evil if the target agrees. somewhat cliche'd

Borrow senses: similar to borrow skill; the psi sees what the target sees, feels what the target feels, hears what the target hears, et cetera. This is limited to physical senses only; for psionics, see relay.

we could include that in skills.

Lend senses: similar to borrow senses; the target gains access to all the psi's senses that the psi cares to lend.

same.

Relay: allows a psi to act as a relay for another psi's abilities, allowing the distant psi to use their abilities as though they were at the relay's location. Multiple relays can be used. The psi whose abilities are being relayed must be within the relay's range.

and if the mage trying to sense the psi sensed the psi who was sending and not the relay's, would make a great stealth attack. might wreck our rock-paper-scisser's. not very cliche. otherwise, fodder. evil.

Psionic projection: allows a psi to separate from their body, and travel without it. The body is unoccupied while the psi is away. The psi's skill determines how long the psi can go without a body, and how long the psi's body can go without a mind. The psi can rest as a rider, above, if the psi has that ability. While projecting, the psi can only interact with the normal world via psionic abilities or magic, as per rider, above.

ok, cliche'd but i like it anyway. more possiblilities: stealth look around and attack, nearly invulnerable, um...can get through most protections. might unbalance rock-paper-scissers. actually, some of this stuff might be more usefull against alchemists. i don't think there's much a psi can do against an alchemist or vice-versa. well, an alchemist could use potions which alter their mind's characteristics. but, while their 'stealthed' in various ways, a psi could unbalance an alchemists potions. maybe telekinisis would be very hard if stealthed to make up for it?

Clairvoyance: The ability to see at a distance. Very useful for riders or projectors.

the psi we were fighting had that; i was calling it clairaudience.

Claiaudiance: The ability to hear at a distance. Very useful for riders or projectors.

ah well. guess she has both.

Clair(other): Of course there is one of these to match each base sense, but I don't remember all the names....

let's not do telling the future. i don't want to do that whole 'fate or free will'.

Psychometry: The art of learning the past of an object, person, or place available to the psi. Skill determines how far into the past the psi can read, power determines how close the target has to be to qualify as available.

sounds good. cliche'd, but i still like it. well, i like cliche'd stuff to, i just try to aviod it if i'm writing the stuff. doesn't mean i'm going to force the rp to avoid it.

Possess: A forbidden practice. The psi takes full control of the target, including the target's senses, skills and abilities (mundane, magic, or psionic). The victim does not remember anything from the moment of possession to the moment of release.

i really don't want to do the whole 'psi are evil' storyline.

Imprint: The psi can imprint a memory or message into a physical object, which is then easily read by any psi with psychometry (similar to reading and writing, but for psi's only and based primarily on memory; any sense impression or thought can be imprinted).

good. not cliched at all, ran into it once i think and less complex Version's a few times.

Dreamwalk: Allows a psi to use any of their abilities normally under concious control while sleeping or unconcious (but not if killed).

good. a little cliche'd.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">and there's me, monosylabic. oops.

[Jack Simth]

Much of the stuff you object to on ethical grounds changes as soon as the psi has permission (as you noticed on the rider); If I obtain permission from you beforehand about borrowing your medical skills every now and then so there will be a doctor nearby, perhaps paying you for the priviledge, then borrowing your medical skills hurts nothing. Ditto for learning a skill in such a manner; it then becomes similar to paying an instructor, but less time consuming for both. Further, it allows for multigenerational preservation of knoweledge, much like writing.

As for those that are unethical under virtually any circumstances, well, some things are forbidden, and only criminals do them. That is one of the primary functions of the psionics guild - enforcing such rules for the protection of those who can't defend themselves, much as modern police enforce 'don't shoot people unless in self-defense' for the protection of those who don't carry guns. It might be interesting to be hired by the guild to help track down a psi in violation. Can you imagine how hard it would be to track down a mindswapper, or a rider who routinely uses possesion? You'd need a police rider with you to scan potential victims.

As for things that are cliche, well, yes, a lot of things are. It's tricky to come up with something that is both new and widely useful. Sure, you can have a geokenetic, who can controls earthquakes, but that is pretty much just destructive, and wide area. About the only thing you can do with it is destroy things, perhaps prevent earthquakes. Great for blackmailing the local nobility and merchants, but that's about it; you can't really risk being caught in your own earthquake.

As for the rock-paper-scissors balance, simply make anything that would be unbalancing as a difficult task limited to the most skilled. For instance, we've already established that enough energy will penetrate damping dust - highly skilled/powerful magic can beat standard alchemy. Jack's mention of the origins of burning lead on his own plane imply that a highly skilled alchemist can indirectly cast spells - perhaps the magical mind block. By psionically projecting, a skilled psi can get past magical mind shielding on an area. Thus, a highly skilled psi can beat a standard mage, a highly skilled mage can beat a standard alchemist, and a highly skilled alchemist can beat a standard psi. The rock/paper/scissors only applies when the skill is about even. A highly skilled alchemist can make a mind block potion, sure, but a highly skilled psi can project in under that defense. However, when a highly skilled psi tries that on a highly skilled mage, the psi discovers that the mage gridded the psi defenses, rather than making it a stationary bubble, so that even after the psi has projected inside, the psi can't do anything as the psi is limited to effects that operate in litttle one inch cubes. A highly skilled mage can overload damping dust, but a highly skilled alchemist can make damping dust that can't be overloaded nearly as easily. At high skill levels, the balance is again restored.

Oh, and a psi could always telekenetically throw stuff around at random to mess up an alchemist. Imagine what happens to the poor alchemist who doesn't have defenses against psionics but maintains exploding potions.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

i'll do a real rundown when i wake up. few hours.

[Krsqk]

New post is up. I had company come Fri. before I was able to get on, so I was delayed. Evil minions of Sauron. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I don't mind having psis be evil. I don't see it as psis with evil powers, but evil psis with powers. Most would be good (or at least restrained/compelled by the good ones/the guild), a few would be rogues and/or criminals, much like our current society. I would classify the psi we just fought as evil, although she might not label herself as that.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

right, rundown.

hive mind: well, wizard's can pool their power. now, how would alchemists pool there power? i'm tired again, and i don't have a clue

Mindswap: given the limitation's on mind-to-mind fight's, possible, very few of the criminal class could manage it with good chances.

Borrow Skill: as long as people have some chance of knowing if someone's doing this, to aviod mob panic.

Lend Skill: nothing more to say.

Learn Skill: see Borrow.

Teach Skill: more Psionic's being scholar's? possibility of the learned skill coming with most of the other person's problem's with that skill? no real, instictual famaliarity untill it's been used for a while?

Rider: nothing more to say.

Borrow Senses: if the person has a chance of detecting it.

Lend Senses: nothing more to say.

Relay: stealth attack at Alchemists?

Psi Proj: nothing more to say.

Clair stuff: nothing more to say.

Psychometry: sounds ok. mage's could do a limited Version and alchemists could do an analysis?

Possess: memories could be recoverable with psi, mage or alchemist help?

Imprint: nothing more to say.

Dreamwalk: would require guards, so wouldn't be to overpowered. especially if timesense was hard to keep track of and power+skill/2 was how long you could stay awake. and, of course, bodily needs.

so, our rock-paper-scisser's looks like alchemists-mage's-psionics.

I'll post tommorrow.

[ September 03, 2003, 06:20: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
right, rundown.

hive mind: well, wizard's can pool their power. now, how would alchemists pool there power? i'm tired again, and i don't have a clue
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">They could pool prepared ingrediants (e.g., if it takes a few days of work to properly dry the mandrake root, properly moisten the chedrack mushrooms, and safely powder the deer antler, then several alchemists could each take a portion of the task, and get it done in less time), or mix potions of the same type to get a larger Version, or just pool finances in getting the best ingrediants. Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:

Mindswap: given the limitation's on mind-to-mind fight's, possible, very few of the criminal class could manage it with good chances.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Moreover, the mages' guild probably sells protective charms.... Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:

Borrow Skill: as long as people have some chance of knowing if someone's doing this, to aviod mob panic.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Perhaps it causes a headache in the target (overworked neurons?), or makes the skill harder for the target while the skill is borrowed/being learned. Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:

Lend Skill: nothing more to say.

Learn Skill: see Borrow.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">See Borrow. Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:

Teach Skill: more Psionic's being scholar's? possibility of the learned skill coming with most of the other person's problem's with that skill? no real, instictual famaliarity untill it's been used for a while?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">All three work for me; perhaps learned/taught skills act more like a local instruction manual - specifics must be "looked up" the first several times a specific is needed, so the one with the new skill won't think of a lot of the uses, as they are harder to reference. Physical skills would require drilling, as a person wouldn't have the muscle memory, appropriet calluses, nor specific muscle strength at first. Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:

Rider: nothing more to say.

Borrow Senses: if the person has a chance of detecting it.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Perhaps a slight headache, or a slight dulling of the borrowed sense? Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:

Lend Senses: nothing more to say.

Relay: stealth attack at Alchemists?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, the relay has to be in range, and there would probably be a limit on how much the Relay can relay at once. Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:

Psi Proj: nothing more to say.

Clair stuff: nothing more to say.

Psychometry: sounds ok. mage's could do a limited Version and alchemists could do an analysis?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Alchemists could double as modern police forensic analyists; mages could, um, use power-hungry entropic regression spells (?) to determine previous arrangements of matter in the area (e.g., determine how the air was disturbed, and where people-sized gaps in the air were at a given instant) - progressively more power-hungry and less reliable as time passes from the event in question, as well as only giving generalities of people doing events (e.g., height, overall body type, but not facial characteristcs [too fine of a detail] nor skin tone [colors wouldn't disturb the air any]). Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:

Possess: memories could be recoverable with psi, mage or alchemist help?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Makes sense - memories are blocked, unblocking possible. Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:

Imprint: nothing more to say.

Dreamwalk: would require guards, so wouldn't be to overpowered. especially if timesense was hard to keep track of and power+skill/2 was how long you could stay awake. and, of course, bodily needs.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The idea was using time more effectively, as psi's have a harder time setting traps against invasion than mages or alchemists do - mages can enchant traps and alarms into stuff, as well as use golem gaurds; alchemists can put tripwires on potions and feed enhancements to loyal pets (giant mantis, anyone?). Without such a skill, a psi is helpless while sleeping. Also, my original intention on this one was that the psi stays resident in the body, using it as a base (unlike projection and rider), being limited to their psionic abilites for action; anything that would wake a person up normally (noise, hunger, thirst, other bodily needs) will wake a dreamwalker (the dreamwalker is in their body), but not a rider or projector (a rider/projector is not in their body, but elsewhere). Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:

so, our rock-paper-scisser's looks like alchemists-mage's-psionics.

I'll post tommorrow.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Looking forward to it.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

ok, the Dreamwalk makes fits right in. ignore my earlier comments, i was thinking they'd actually move from there bodies. perhaps they'd need a bit more sleep? call it Dreamtrance?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

um. sorry, ran into the novelization of the X-2 movie.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

posted. ok, suggested additions to alchemists:

'Although alchemists use the physical properties of elements and molecules, their main use is there psuedo-magical properties, which are generally dirivations of the physical properties. Thus, mercury can be used in a potion to make something change or become more bendable, while sulpher is often an ingrediant in an exploding potion. The flowers of a hardy mountian plant can be used in a potion of endurance.'

'Alchemists can use psyco-reactive and psyco-active potions to detect and block psionic influence, although the result's are as reliable as a mage blocking damping powder. They can also, with a little more success, mimic some psionic abilities.'

Alchemists would store potions. proposal: alchemist healing potion's as good as mage potions, since there's no reasen for them not to be.

proposal, sort of. my mind is foggy and tired.

each class of AMP can mimic the other's abilities, although the imitation's are not as good. not sure how not as good, though. alchemists can use complex potions to imitate complex spells, and use other potions to replicate psionic powers. mage's can cast spells on a container of water to make it act like a potion, or use other spells to imitate psionics. psionics can replicate the effects of spells, but i'm not sure how they would do potions. altering the chemical structure would be to hard. there would also be stuff that would be common to two or three of the classes, like all of them can make someone stronger/faster.

as a suggestion for allowing psionic's to store energy, putting kinetic energy in the molecular bonds of something, then drawing it out. i just realized this could create an explosion, to.

[ September 05, 2003, 08:07: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Krsqk]

That stupid Narp. Jack didn't want the gold, anyway. Let him suffer--he probably doesn't even have a use for money. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Interestingly enough, I originally had Narp ask for the gold, then thought John might be a better fit. D's character is rather hard for me; he was developed so little, and I can't quite get a handle on him. Maybe Jack could attach an enchanted one to him. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Then again, maybe we should enlist the SE4Bot to inject commentary every so often. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

*sticks his tungue out*

D is a wise and mysterious menter. give him wise and mysterious lines. he was David E.G.'s character for a bit.

side note to Jack: did you take the flour most of them have into account?

[ September 06, 2003, 06:03: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
did you take the flour most of them have into account?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I haven't been thinking about it, but Jack did teleported all but flour tagged stuff on one occasion - he's presumably leaving scatterd sacks of flour around the battlefield. If the bandits dust themselves, they can't effectively use the magic items they carry anymore, which removes some of their advantage. Even if they do, all Jack needs to start doing is teleporting rocks and stuff....

By the way, Krsqk - it's your turn.

[ September 06, 2003, 07:00: Message edited by: Jack Simth ]

[Jack Simth]

Krsqk - you okay? It's been your turn for about four days....

[narf poit chez BOOM]

there's a 'ping Krsqk' thread at: http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=009906
has some explanations.

[ September 10, 2003, 07:07: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Krsqk]

Found it. Back on page 4 or 5.

[Jack Simth]

The board puts the meaningful thread navigation variables in the URL, so you can just bookmark a thread if you don't want to lose it, so if you wanted to remember where a thread was - say, the one where my screen name is discussed (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=009965)- you can just bookmark it like normal and have it saved if you ever need it again. I've done this with this thread (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=009207), the roleplay thread (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=60;t=000159), and the jokes and riddles thread (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=009580), to name three, so I don't need to go searching every time I want to read them over.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

well, that explains why looking for 'DO' didn't find it.

[Krsqk]

I have the actual RP thread bookmarked, but there hadn't been any need to hunt for this one. At least, not until I got busy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ October 11, 2003, 01:13: Message edited by: Krsqk ]

[Jack Simth]

Okay. Well, Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

[Krsqk]

Well, I posted. Two days ago, in fact. Was it really so horrid as to make everyone sick for half a week? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I mean, I'm rusty, but I didn't think I was that rusty. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

well, i don't post on sunday. is it my turn?
it was rusty, but still a good post.

[Krsqk]

I'd forgotten about that. Yeah, I think it's your turn.

Probably want to make sure your tetanus shots are up to date before you work off my post too much. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

oh, poor pitiful you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by Krsqk:
Well, I posted. Two days ago, in fact. Was it really so horrid as to make everyone sick for half a week? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I mean, I'm rusty, but I didn't think I was that rusty. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Better than some of the stuff I've typed up for it...

[narf poit chez BOOM]

turkey...
at least, that's my excuse.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

aww, you've ruined my sneak attack. oh well.

[Krsqk]

Narf, it's your turn. I think this could be another Narp-centered battle, although the amulets probably could be overloaded. If they were well designed, though, they would simply redirect/vent the excess energy harmlessly.

We also need to start thinking about a motive. I can see why someone might want to keep the signet ring separated, and why someone might want to control the court wizard and borrow his skills, and even why someone would try to attack the baron's residence; but we kind of need a single explanation/motive for all three. Sounds a little overachieving for your typical baddie. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Maybe they were selling their services to another villain...?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

or dispelled. but i'm to tired right now to do a battle. to tired to even think of a good joke. or a bad one.

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by Krsqk:
[ooc: I'm envisioning some sort of amulet which absorbs incoming magical energy and redirects it, possibly using it to heal the wearer or to power some other artifact. I'm also assuming the plate armor is of good enough quality to stop anything sort of a very-short-range hit from a crossbow or a gravity-assisted hit by a longbow, similar to the late era French and English plate armor.]<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">All armor has chinks - otherwise, the armored person couldn't move. I'm sure Narp's very good at placing his blows, but we might do better with a hasty retreat, as we are sorely outnumbered. Then again, castle keeps were designed with room-to-room, pay-for-every-inch defense in mind.

And of course they need amulets - they can't exactly teleport in with dust....
Originally posted by Krsqk:
We also need to start thinking about a motive. I can see why someone might want to keep the signet ring separated, and why someone might want to control the court wizard and borrow his skills, and even why someone would try to attack the baron's residence; but we kind of need a single explanation/motive for all three. Sounds a little overachieving for your typical baddie. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Maybe they were selling their services to another villain...?<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Suppose, for a moment, that the psi is the Baron's sister, and feels that she rightly deserves the position. However, if she just takes it, the people above the baron will bring their recources to bear against her, which she wouldn't be able to stand against (they would hire the psionics guild, if need be). However, if she proves to them that the Baron isn't fit, they may interceed in her favor. To do this, she needs to be careful not to leave too terribly much in the way of traces - no long-term direct control on major players, no hiring of mercenaries, et cetera.

Oh, and narf - it is still a bit of a surprise; had we been prepared, the door would have been barred.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

but the 'fued' between arther and his brother has been going on for what? 1500 years? i think something like that was stated. and that 'fued' was the Psi's doing. maybe it's the ring that's important. hired by somebody to keep the ring from being reasembled sounds most likely right now. except why the bandit attacks? maybe mr X decided to just grab the peice of the ring.

[Jack Simth]

True, but not everything has to be directly related to everything else - the ring feud and the psi's manipulations of the Barony could be totally unrelated, especially seeing as how, if the psi wanted the ring from someone she could manipulate readily (John), she would have just gotten him to hand it over more directly. There could be multiple schemers running around.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

so, if we have another Psi keeping the ring fued going, why havn't they done anything by now? waiting to see if the first one would kill us off? maybe there's three players - the first one, the one we're fighting, just wants the barony, no clue about the ring. second one, wants the ring. or at least, doesn't want anybody else from having it. third one, either the same or nobler motives. and two and three have been keeping each other from doing anything overt. the only problem i see, although i'm tired and there could be more, is that it's complex.

[Jack Simth]

True, maybe three schemers would cause a bit of a problem.

All right, how's this sound:

The psi is the Baron's sister, and feels that she rightly deserves the position. However, if she just takes it, the people above the baron will bring their recources to bear against her, which she wouldn't be able to stand against (they would hire the psionics guild, if need be). However, if she proves to them that the Baron isn't fit, they may interceed in her favor. To do this, she needs to be careful not to leave too terribly much in the way of traces - no long-term direct control on major players, no hiring of mercenaries, et cetera (Same as before), and is unaware of or uninterested in the ring.

The ring feud is unrelated, and is simply caused by John being sore at Arthur about something, which has now been tempered by time and events - perhaps it is jealosy, as Arthur was always the better mage; or John has recently realized he can't do anything with the ring, and is thus willing to part with it; or, perhaps, he wants to see what happens if/when Aurther tries to probe it (having tried it himself, and not fared too well).

Ring-side motivations will probably need to wait for Krsqk's input, as they most directly involve his character.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

and she's attacking out of desperation. works.

[Jack Simth]

It's not necessarily an attack out of desparation - she saw a reasonable reason to get the baron and army away from the manor (chasing our party) and then sent mere bandits (not a regular army) to loot/capture the place. A manor falling to a better-equipped, more expensive army is one thing, and doesn't say too terribly much about the competence of it's leader. However, if a manor falls to ill-equipped bandits while the baron is out, then the baron "obviously" can't make reasonable decisions, and thus is a bad candidate for managing the recourses present in the barony. Under such circumstances, those above the baron could reasonably see fit to hand the barony over to a candidate that is qualified (with qualifications including descent from whoever the barony was awarded to): the psi. The only real kink in her plans came when we disabled her and went back to the manor to defend it.

[Krsqk]

John and Arthur's disagreement is ~1500 years old, I believe. That makes it unlikely to be originated by the psi in question, but it would be a good tool for the psi to use. The baron's Master Wizard would be the one most likely to detect her/spoil her plans, so she probed his memory for something to distract him. This feud stood out, so she influenced him to obsess about it lately. This coincided with Arthur's recent attempts to persuade John to surrender it, which could explain why the psi chose such an "old" memory to use. With the wizard safely distracted, she could proceed with her dastardly deeds against the baron.

The appearance of the party seemed at first to fall right in with her plans. The telekenesis attack in the tower could have been an attempt to kill John, or perhaps it was just done to force the party's hand. Jack responded with some fairly spectacular (by the standards of the peasantry) magic, then spirited everyone away. The baron, and especially his men, were fairly easy to persuade to chase after them, given things such as the wall floating above the tower.

The psi didn't count on 1) the link with John being broken in the process, or 2) the party being able to track her down so quickly, relying mostly on Arthur's previous hunches about her location. She wouldn't have been overly concerned, though; she had the mantis and shelves full of damping flour, not to mention guards well-equipped with it. Few mages in this plane seem to be well-acquainted with time-space bending, let alone versed in it, and no one had any knowledge of capacitors or Harnessed Uncertainty Gems (Jewels?); so it was quite reasonable to assume that a party primarily consisting of mages would be easily defeated. The mages would be nearly harmless once hit with the flour, and the lone fighter should be easily dispatched by her pet. Jack's access to the extra-planar technologies proved to be the hidden flaw in her plans. The rest, as they say, is history. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The previously given reasons for the psi to attack the baron seem solid to me; perhaps she is an older sibling, or even was originally the heir (some noble families did permit titles to devolve on the oldest heir, whether male or female) but was passed over for some reason.

Sound good so far?

[edit]
All armor has chinks - otherwise, the armored person couldn't move. I'm sure Narp's very good at placing his blows, but we might do better with a hasty retreat, as we are sorely outnumbered. Then again, castle keeps were designed with room-to-room, pay-for-every-inch defense in mind.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The armor would have chinks, but it's difficult to place a bow shot there in close quarters (thus my examples of point-blank crossbow/ballistic-fired longbow). I wasn't negating the effectiveness of Narp's sword work; I just didn't think he'd like to take on the twenty-to-one odds, especially when several of the enemy have polearms or longer two-handed swords.

You know, it might be possible to end the speed/strength enhancement by faking our deaths. Jack stated in the first mage cave that the spell runs until it stops detecting a threat, and even Arthur's Version burnt out almost as soon as the need for the spell ended. If the detection portion of the spell can be spoofed, the massive hangovers would kick in, making the fight a lot easier. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Of course, that's up to you two to work out. Another means might be just as fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ October 16, 2003, 21:30: Message edited by: Krsqk ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

well, the psi could always be insane. nice, neat reason for her to be passed up. i think we have our explanation.

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by Krsqk:
You know, it might be possible to end the speed/strength enhancement by faking our deaths. Jack stated in the first mage cave that the spell runs until it stops detecting a threat, and even Arthur's Version burnt out almost as soon as the need for the spell ended. If the detection portion of the spell can be spoofed, the massive hangovers would kick in, making the fight a lot easier. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Of course, that's up to you two to work out. Another means might be just as fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That would be tricky, wouldn't it?

Some other possibilities:
There is still all that flour lying around in John's workroom. Jack could bring it back the same way he sent it in, which could null the magic on the bandits, leaving them near-collapsing from the weight of armor they don't wear when not using strength enhancements. He'd want to levitate the casters in the party out of the way first, however.

Also, there should still be some dust sticking to Narp's shield (Jack's been careful not to disturb it when teleporting the party around) - a shield bash could be devastating to the first bandit or two, couldn't it?

Alternately, it should be possible to teleport the bandits - they were teleported in, after all. There might be some hoops to jump through (aligning spell frequencies or some such to convince the amulets it is a friendly teleport) but it should be possible.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

unless, like your gems, the enchantment is buried. but it still wouldn't be able to function. on the other hand, the strength and speed could be a potion. we've seen a fair amount of alchemy.

harking back to previous stuff, mages can cast spells and enchant. if we let psionics store activatable energy patterns in items, then they'd have a personal power and an item power. but alchemists only have an item power, so as a proposal, how about alchemists being able to take on characteristics from there environment?

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
unless, like your gems, the enchantment is buried. but it still wouldn't be able to function. on the other hand, the strength and speed could be a potion. we've seen a fair amount of alchemy.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Quite possible. Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:

harking back to previous stuff, mages can cast spells and enchant. if we let psionics store activatable energy patterns in items, then they'd have a personal power and an item power. but alchemists only have an item power, so as a proposal, how about alchemists being able to take on characteristics from there environment?<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Possibly - perhaps they could also produce adreneline activated potions that hang around as an inert substance until activated - drink one, and then next month when some drunk throws a punch at you, the potion activates, and grants a temporary strength boost, speed boost, or whatever, all under the nose of any watching mages. They could possibly be made to run on other triggers as well - massive injury (shock triggered), illness (elavated white-blood cell count), strenuous exertion (lactic acid buildup), et cetera. Then an alchemist could store potions inside the alchemist's own body, where they can't be readily removed. They'd just need to make sure it wouldn't react with anything else they ingest....

Also, don't forget about alchemically modified pets! Who wouldn't want to be the master of a 2-ton dog, trained to be totally loyal to its master, saturated with anti-magic dust and below the intelligence threshold needed for telepathic influence to operate? Or a cat, or a bug, or a bird, or a _________(fill in blank)? Sure, it might be expensive to maintain (how much would a 2-ton dog/cat/bird/bug/______ eat every day?), but it would be quite an impressive war-beast.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Possibly - perhaps they could also produce adreneline activated potions that hang around as an inert substance until activated
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">true, but a mage can provide effect-activated spells. what alchemists don't have is a personal power. and mages and psionics could create a 2-ton bug to, by manipulating glands and things like that.

[Jack Simth]

There is that.

What mechanism though? How does an alchemist go about aquiring personal abilities that are an aspect of their domain?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

well, if an alchemists manipulates and enhances alchemical qualities, an alchemist could enhance and apply the air around him to float, or a rock to harden his skin. beyond that, i'm not to sure.

[Jack Simth]

That could work - the air could be thickened, slowing a combatent down, or even locking one in place; not to mention what they could do to the armor a person is wearing - enhance the oxidizing properties of oxygen and all that steel turns into so much rust.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

*catch the lightning bolt*

just poppod into my head. alchemist with a jar in a thunderstorm.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

posted.

[Krsqk]

Originally posted by Jack Simth:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Krsqk:
You know, it might be possible to end the speed/strength enhancement by faking our deaths. Jack stated in the first mage cave that the spell runs until it stops detecting a threat, and even Arthur's Version burnt out almost as soon as the need for the spell ended. If the detection portion of the spell can be spoofed, the massive hangovers would kick in, making the fight a lot easier. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Of course, that's up to you two to work out. Another means might be just as fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That would be tricky, wouldn't it?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It would all depend on the complexity of the spell's threat routine. A spell optimized for use in a group setting could easily reduce the level of monitoring, relying instead on the individual's sense of threat (which would likely be accurate, since it would interact with that of his companions). For that sort of spell, something such as teleporting the party but leaving illusions behind to be killed could be enough. The illusions would be reasonably complex; they would need to provide resistance to weapons (not just thin air) and realistic death effects. Once the bandits "finished" their job, they should relax, ending the spell.

I realize it's somewhat complex and bordering on gamey, if that term can be applied to a roleplay. I just thought it was unique after a few rounds of Posts in a more traditional battle style. You know, flying golems and falling trees and exploding force walls. This would be something new and exciting. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

We still don't know if they have a signal to be teleported back when they win, and there really is no way to tell what flavor of enhancement spell they have. We do know that they are down to 19 now, thanks to Narp's head jab. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif If we make them chase us down into the tower, they may split up (especially if they see us--or illusions of us--splitting up). Divide and conquer?

[ October 17, 2003, 21:36: Message edited by: Krsqk ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

they'd provide more of a challenge if the enhancements where alchemical, as it is, Jack would probably figure out some way to counter them.

as for divide and conquer...sounds like a plan.

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
posted.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">ditto.

[Krsqk]

Ooooh! Me too! Me too!

[narf poit chez BOOM]

i'll be busy most of today; expect me back monday.

[Krsqk]

I'll be gone Sun. PM through Tues. late PM.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

ok, here's a theory of mine: any character so powerfull that they cannot be taken out by either an angry mob or a skilled team of professonals makes itself redundant. for example: spiderman is not to powerfull. either a mob or a team could kill him. the silver surfer is to powerfull. i only saw the cartoon and read a book, but he can take out an entire defence system. why are silver surfer type character's bad? because they tend to generate ever more powerfull character's, since the easiest way to make a nemisis is to make a more powerfull character.

so, if a character is superpowerfull, it should be because of the support system of their civilization - the effort of many.

yep, Jack, i'm wondering how you feel about a limit on your character's powers, since your's is the closest to transforming to a silver surfer. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

as always, the above is up for debat.

[Jack Simth]

Actually, a team of professionals could take him down - he'd be back, given time, but he could be taken down - it would take something/someone putting a damp on energy conduits; a 'circle breaker' of some kind. Arthur or D would scarecly notice - they are used to drawing on their own energies. Jack, on the other hand, would suddenly find himself a spectator.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

so, your limit on the jems is Jack not having much of a personal power pool?

wouldn't be nessasary, if using more than a certain number of them required equipment that required a technical base - large number's of people needed to equip a character to deal with large number's of people. plus, it would eleminate 'monolithic' character's.

that's just my opinion, though.

didn't Krsqk say he'd be back yesterday?

[ October 23, 2003, 04:20: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Jack Simth]

Oh, he's got a normal personal power pool (not normal for a mage - it hasn't been exercised - but normal for a person) - it's just that he isn't used to power conservation. Someone who has all the power production of the Hoover Dam available to play with, from a society where a great many people have comperable supplies, won't even know what a flourescent bulb is, much less how to build/use it. If such a person is suddenly reduced to a generator hooked up to a bicycle, they are going to have problems.

As to limits on how many can be accessed at one time, Jack has already hinted at it a few times - he called his second ring a "spare" when he lent it to Arthur; the implication being that it isn't in active use. He mentioned that he maintains a connection to his Master's gem - a connection isn't necessarily an active conduit, just the possibility of one. He mentioned a safety mechanisim to prevent overloading the conduit; a single mage is limited to however much energy that mage can safely channel. More than that, and they go boom, much as a modern electrical transformer will when overloaded (there is one near my house - I've heard it go boom on a few occasions). More mages can channel more power, but they can't send it through one mage to shape; instead, they must turn it seperately to the same task. For burning the lead, Jack is actually planning on going boom, building a spare body to inhabit beforehand. In the short interum till he returns to the new one, he won't be able to channel much; it's difficult to affect the physical world when one is dead.

Yes, Krsqk did mention he'd be back yesterday, didn't he? It could simply be timzone differences combined with very tired after getting home late. Nothing to worry about for a few days.

[ October 23, 2003, 05:27: Message edited by: Jack Simth ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

looks like you have a better handle on it than i do. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

i guess my problem is i don't think about these things untill there staring me in the face.

[Jack Simth]

Actually, I hadn't thought about it until you mentioned it; it's just that the seeds of the fix were already there. Had I not specifically mentioned the hints, they could have meant anything, and been safely ignored. For example, "spare" only means that it isn't in use, not that it can't be in use at the same time. Likewise, maintaining a connection doesn't imply that the connection isn't being used any more than it implies the connection is being used. Jack had mentioned the safety on the conduit, but it could be any kind of conduit as stated in the thread, including an external energy conduit that doesn't cause much of a problem when overloaded. Hints can go in multiple directions quite easily. Jack had been planning on losing the flesh to burn the lead, but that was initially due to energy capture efficency problems discussed earlier in this thread.

In short, keep mentioning them when you see them. I don't actually have too terribly tight of a grip on things - I'm just good at grabbing them whenever the need arises. Untill that need surfaces, I just let them float in case anyone else would like to grab one.

[Krsqk]

I is back. I is "tarred." I is bizzy tonight entering about four weeks' worth of grades which I has been procrastinidating fer a while. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif *smacks self* Bad me. *smack smack*

However, I am sure I'll find some excuse to take a break and...uh..."refresh my mental energies" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif and get a post done. Kind of like I'm procrastinidating right now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Krsqk]

Okay, so the only mental exercise I had Last night was patting my wife's head and telling her she'll be feeling better soon and pretending to be able to fix headaches. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif ( <-- That's for both her and me.) I'll try again tonight.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

well, sunday will hit this forum soon, so i should probably get going.

oh, ok, hour and half left.

gotta go. cya.

[ October 26, 2003, 00:07: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Jack Simth]

Krsqk - you okay? Your post in the MOTMA thread is about 16 hours old and still lists "in progress"

[Krsqk]

Nope. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif The first chance I get to post in days, and the power goes out as I'm wrapping up. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif I'm going to have to start posting first and proofreading second. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I'm headed there now to finish my "progress."

[Krsqk]

Okay, I've posted. Not much action; just narrative and description. I'm in more of a Monet mood tonight, rather than a Jackie Chan mood. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

who's Monet?

i just read it. my responce: *clap* *clap* *clap*

very good writing.

[ October 31, 2003, 04:58: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Krsqk]

Monet's an Impressionistic artist. Not usually my cup of tea, but at times, it's nice to take in the mood rather than the details.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

definitly my cup of tea.

did i mention i don't like tea?

my post coming sometime today.

[ October 31, 2003, 17:39: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

ok, i posted. not much and not as good as Krsqk's. didn't seem like there was much for Narp to do but slump against a wall and be releived he's out of the rest of the battle.

you know, i need to come up with more for Narp to do. i need to get more discriptive. i mean, he's a scholar and a fighter. he's got to have some interesting thought's.

and i havn't gone to sleep yet, so it can't be tommorrow. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ November 01, 2003, 07:29: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Krsqk]

ok, i posted. not much and not as good as Krsqk's.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's hard to follow a masterpiece. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif j/k http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

didn't seem like there was much for Narp to do but slump against a wall and be releived he's out of the rest of the battle.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think that's a reasonable reaction. After all, he'd already fought whole battle when he suddenly had to jump right back into things with those nasty teleporting bandits. The speed/strength spell is probably about due to wear off, too.

you know, i need to come up with more for Narp to do. i need to get more discriptive. i mean, he's a scholar and a fighter. he's got to have some interesting thought's.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'd be thinking about food and sleep right now, if I were in his shoes.

and i havn't gone to sleep yet, so it can't be tommorrow. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh, one of those nights. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Oh, one of those nights.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">not really. it wasn't that late and i went to sleep right after. gotta get up in time to watch the interesting cartoons. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Jack Simth]

Posted. Nobody else was doing much with the bandits on the tower, so I stopped the fight.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

you know, i've been thinking with all the flour being thrown around there maybe is an alchemist around somewhere.

[Jack Simth]

It would seem reasonable that there was one or more alchemists around, yes. So far, any alchemist has stayed in the background, as has the blacksmith(s) who has made all the swords & armor we've encountered. Or the farmers who grew all the food to feed the barony. There are a lot of implied people we haven't encountered.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

their's no implication the alchemist is directly involved, however. ie knows about the situation.

i got a new job, and due to that, well, you can expect a post when i post. i guess it's my turn for an absence. hopefully, i'll adjust soon and it'll be a short absence.

[Jack Simth]

Good luck with the new job.

True, no posting about direct involvement, just major purchases of damping dust and some combat potions.

Oh, and I think it is Krsqk's turn.

[ November 04, 2003, 03:15: Message edited by: Jack Simth ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

thanks.

[Krsqk]

I think we can reasonably assume he is a *very* wealthy alchemist. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

not nessasarily, just powerfull. a powerfull alchemist could automate the process, just provide the nessesary alchemical 'juice' and use cheaper ingrediants for the same result. although arming how many bandits are we up to? with so much flour does, now that i think about it, indicate a project.

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by Krsqk:
I think we can reasonably assume he is a *very* wealthy alchemist. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">... unless he was slaving away under mind control. Lots of that going around recently.

[ November 05, 2003, 02:22: Message edited by: Jack Simth ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

oh, from selling the stuff. wealtheir, at least. depends how much he makes from elixer's of extra life and the like. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

and some alchemists may have a whole setup, with multiple apprentice's churning away, making easy potions to sell by the dozens. or at least the half-dozens.

[ November 05, 2003, 02:24: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

grades? *pokes Krsqk. lightly.*

[Krsqk]

*twitches nervously, fearing Narf is an angry parent*

*mechanically reaches for telephone*

"Hola. No, el senor no hay aqui. Lo siento, no hablo ingles. Good bye." *click*

*returns to cowering position in secret compartment in locked closet and fields parents' phone calls*

*RIIIIIIIING*

"Hello? No, I'm sorry. He's not at home today except to agents of the Lower Slobovian government on official business." *click*

"Hello? No thanks, I'm happy with my current long distance provider." *click*

*checks caller ID* "Good evening, Mrs. Alderman, I am pleased to offer you the latest in home entertainment technology." *click*

"Domino's Pizza, how may I help you?" *click*

"Umm, could you send me a copy of Space Empires: Starfury? I misplaced my CD." *click*

*click*

*click*

*click*

...

At Last! Parent-Teacher Meetings are finally over! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Endless days and nights of explaining the virtues of self-motivated home study and doing one's homework and conducting one's self in a civilized fashion in the classroom to adults who spend so much time away from their children they have an uncontrollable impulse to bury them in money/toys/food and defend them at all costs against that teacher who just doesn't understand their child. Never mind that the teacher is with their child about five times more than they are. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I finally have nothing to grade, and my wife is pulling my arm to get me out of the house. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I'll try to post before I leave.

Let's have a posting marathon! I have plenty of monsters to kill, all named after children and parents of mine! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Oops.

[ November 07, 2003, 21:28: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Narf is sick. posting marathon? lucky if i can post.

congrats on surviving PTM.

[Krsqk]

*looks for that blessed potion of extra healing, but is unable to locate it*

Sorry to hear about your illness, and best wishes for your speedy recovery.

Oh, and I've posted some rot.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

[ooc: Done, but not great. It seems like a FF scene before a major battle where every character feels obligated to say something before they go fight. ]
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">i may have played one FF game a bit that a friend brought over. so i wouldn't know.

and i've posted rot to...and never remembered to look it over later.

thanks for the wishes. maybe i'll use them to have fishes.

Dr. Suess mood i guess.

[ November 08, 2003, 05:49: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by Krsqk:
[ooc: post in Progresso http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif ]
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">How does an arrangement of anti-positrons avoid significant entropy during immersion in dihydrogenated monoxide with a high proportion of mixed organics and inorganics designed for consumption by homo sapients?

...

sorry, couldn't resist.
Originally posted by Krsqk:

[ooc: Done, but not great. It seems like a FF scene before a major battle where every character feels obligated to say something before they go fight. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ] <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Characters in the FF series also have a habit of doing that after combat - and during combat - and at random plot points - just about any time they feel like it, really.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Characters in the FF series also have a habit of doing that after combat - and during combat - and at random plot points - just about any time they feel like it, really.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">sounds like DBZ, but people say FF is good...

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
sounds like DBZ, but people say FF is good... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm exaggerating considerably; conversation only happens at prepared locations (otherwise, the program wouldn't have a script to follow) and mostly only during plot points. Conversation in the middle of combat is pretty rare, and is usually a simple matter of discussion of the interface very early on, a tutorial, essentially. Occasionally there is some conversation that has no impact on the plot, but mostly conversation is wherever they feel like it because the games in the FF series are long games - VII was a three CD set while VIII was a four CD set, as was IX. There is a lot of plot to go through, and it is scattered around the game globe.

Also, there is much more conversation in DBZ than there is in the FF series, and it helps that you are controlling the characters (for the most part) in the FF series, rather than just watching stuff happen on a TV screen.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

well, that's good.

since one person so far has expressed interest in an occasional character appearance...do we need any ground rules for OCA's? the RP is, i think, very free form and with, so far, only one person who might drop in, plus the general level of maturity on these forums, i don't think we need to worry about random poster's spoiling it. that is, if we get any. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Jack Simth]

I think the main issue with more posters is just one of identifying those who will only post occasionally rather than in a turn sequence so we don't wait on their turn for a month. Other than that little tidbit that people might not think of, the general level of politeness on these forums should take care of things.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

yes, and it sounds like we need to make it more interesting. we just defeated a couple hundred bandits. admittadly, the gaurds and the manor walls helped, but...

[narf poit chez BOOM]

so, three questions face us.

do we continue, in the face of an audience smaller than the probable one for the theatrical realease of 'twenty minutes of a wall'?

if we do continue, how do we make it more interesting? my suggestion: make shield spells take more of a hit from arrows or give arrows a chance to penatrate. either one would have made the Last fight more difficult. cheap light spells would also have helped.

whaddya looking at me for? i can never remember number three.

bear with us, our minute audience. we're RP newbie's. and we're creating an entire new world. there's bound to be some problems.

oh, yes. i posted. a bit out of practice.

[ November 18, 2003, 03:14: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

ooc:[so, should we try to bluff the bandits down, wait for the baron's men so it isn't a bluff, be open with the bandits and alert them to both circumstances, or something else?]
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Narp would wait for reinforcements. of course, no one has to tell the bandits the golems are down.

[Krsqk]

Arthur`would`take`the`direct`approach`which`would` be`to...I`don't`really`know`what`that`would`be.`If `the`debate`goes`on`for`too`long,`though,`he'll`ta ke`the`direct`approach`to`endi ng`the`debate.` http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Sorry`for`the`horrible`spacing`I`just`found`out`my `space`bar`isn't`working.`Time`for`a`new`keyboard. ` http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif ` http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Krsqk]

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay! I have a keyboard! Of course, it's taking a bit to get used to, since it's not a "clicker" and the backslash key is now in half of the space of the old backspace key, instead of the outer third of the right shift key. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Boy, it's beginning to look a lot like Christmas--at least as much as it can in wretched Orlando. *wishes on twelve falling stars for some real cold weather--not this "lows in the 50's" stuff*

[Krsqk]

Oh, since I just got my 1199th post, I thought I'd go ahead and get my 1200th right now. Just to save everyone the trouble of holding their breath. Sorry, Fyron--I can't turn that post count off. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

did you read my other post? i was wondering how we might make the RP more interesting.