Computer Combat ? [Archive] - .com.unity Forums

Me Loonn

June 23rd, 2003, 07:09 PM

Ahhh...
So, it skips armor and shields but only destroys Master Computer component.
Well, its totally useless weapon then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Well, if the enemy has also bridge etc, like the TDM AIs all do. When i got Psycic trait, anyway.

Fyron

June 23rd, 2003, 08:12 PM

Actually, it is an extremely useful weapon. Why do you suppose those TDM AIs have redundant bridges and such? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

If you have gold (latest patch), then a damaged MC still protects a ship from Allegience Subverters.

Me Loonn

June 23rd, 2003, 09:22 PM

Yeah, thats why its so useless. It would make allegience subverter atleast SOME what usefull if you could first attack MC and THEN use AS on it.
Right now Psycic blows.
I can't think any usefull psycic gadjet worth the 1500 points http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Organic / religious combo is my fav atm.
(coss i got my *** kicked far, far away by flora empire in Last game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif )

[ June 23, 2003, 20:23: Message edited by: Me Loonn ]

Fyron

June 23rd, 2003, 09:41 PM

You need to get the AS faster, before they get MCs. Before the change was made, Comp Virus + AS was way too powerful.

Psychic certainly does not blow. Their training facilities make it so you can get your ships trained while they are moving to the front lines instead of having to wait around for a while. Their Telekinitic Projectors are fairly powerful weapons (nearly on par with APBs, for less research).

[ June 23, 2003, 20:42: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

PvK

June 23rd, 2003, 11:10 PM

Also, against humans, the threat of an AS forces them to put an MC on their ships, and an AS/Virus mix can get them to put MC + bridge/LS/CQ, which is quite expensive.

Psychic also has at least one other evil weapon, IIRC.

PvK

oleg

June 23rd, 2003, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by PvK:
... Psychic also has at least one other evil weapon, IIRC.

PvKMental Flair ? No, it has the same weakness as AS - MC. Mental Singularity is just like firework creaker - lot of smoke and noise but little effect. Small TKP is a very usefull weapon though.

Loser

June 24th, 2003, 12:33 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Before the change was made, Comp Virus + AS was way too powerful.No more powerful than the Talisman, is it? Originally posted by Me Loonn:
i got my *** kicked far, far away by flora empire in Last game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Yeah, they're a good AI (Rollo's), and a pretty shipset (Henk? Is he around?). Give me a run for my money like telling me I'm not ready for humans. Though I wonder about this entry in the TDM ReadMe: 02.02.2003: * deleted master computers from designsWasn't someone just talking about this?

cybersol

June 24th, 2003, 12:53 AM

Originally posted by oleg:
Mental Flair ? No, it has the same weakness as AS - MC. Mental Singularity is just like firework creaker - lot of smoke and noise but little effect. Small TKP is a very usefull weapon though.The Mental Singularity Generator has the same uses as Wave Motion Guns (range 8, plus to hit, big damage but slow reload), but it is much faster to reach research wise. Crack through that crystalline armor at long range with these.

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Their Telekinitic Projectors are fairly powerful weapons (nearly on par with APBs, for less research).Actually, TKP's are almost identical to slightly bulkier meson bLasters (range, damage value, etc). But meson bLaster are cheaper to research.

Erax

July 9th, 2003, 05:26 PM

OK, newbie question time : does a Master Computer prevent capture via Boarding Parties ? I've done a partial scan of the FAQ and I think it doesn't.

Slick

July 9th, 2003, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by Erax:
OK, newbie question time : does a Master Computer prevent capture via Boarding Parties ? I've done a partial scan of the FAQ and I think it doesn't.Unfortunately, no it doesn't. I'll make this clearer in the next update.

Slick.

Suicide Junkie

July 9th, 2003, 05:36 PM

No, MCs have no boarding defense ability.

The troopers will just unplug your MC and reprogram it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Me Loonn

July 9th, 2003, 05:38 PM

Nope.
Those "master" computers have OS on floppy disks (?), so succesful boardin will take ship just the same as one using crew quaters.

A better source than FAQ for SEIV info can be found here (http://www.invirtuo.cc/phpwiki/index.php/master%20computer).

-edit-
Gah !
Just 2 mins too late http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ July 09, 2003, 16:44: Message edited by: Me Loonn ]

Slick

July 9th, 2003, 05:50 PM

*twirls his mouse around his finger with blinding speed then holsters it and tips his hat* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Slick.

Loser

July 9th, 2003, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by Me Loonn:
Those "master" computers have OS on floppy disks (?), ...The term you may be looking for is floppy diskettes. It goes Hard Disks, Floppy Diskettes, Compact Discs.

Fyron

July 9th, 2003, 09:01 PM

Actually, floppy disk is a perfectly legitimate term. Most people do not talk about diskettes, but disks.

Originally posted by Loser:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
[qb]Before the change was made, Comp Virus + AS was way too powerful.No more powerful than the Talisman, is it? [QUOTE]The Talisman is way too powerful. Unfortunately, I do not see any fix for it coming any time soon.

Loser

July 9th, 2003, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Actually, floppy disk is a perfectly legitimate term. Most people do not talk about diskettes, but disks.You're Right and it is and they don't, but he popped that (?) in there so I gave him all the data I could Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Loser:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
[qb]Before the change was made, Comp Virus + AS was way too powerful.No more powerful than the Talisman, is it? <hr /></blockquote>The Talisman is way too powerful. Unfortunately, I do not see any fix for it coming any time soon.<hr /></blockquote>There is a fix: "ya got to have faith, a-faith, a-faith. Baaaby...".

Play it yourself or don't play with it at all?

But seriously, what kind of fix would you recommend? Is making it cost more enough? Is making it less effective enough? What about making the ship easier to hit?

[ July 09, 2003, 20:36: Message edited by: Loser ]

mottlee

July 9th, 2003, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by Loser:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Me Loonn:
Those "master" computers have OS on floppy disks (?), ...The term you may be looking for is floppy diskettes. It goes Hard Disks, Floppy Diskettes, Compact Discs.<hr /></blockquote>The Old 5.25" were FLOPPY! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Loser

July 9th, 2003, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by mottlee:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Loser:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Me Loonn:
Those "master" computers have OS on floppy disks (?), ...The term you may be looking for is floppy diskettes. It goes Hard Disks, Floppy Diskettes, Compact Discs.<hr /></blockquote>The Old 5.25" were FLOPPY! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <hr /></blockquote>The three-and-a-half were floppy too, but you had to break them open to see it.

Before the five-and-a-quarter where the eight-inch diskettes. I have a large number of them I picked up at a surplus store. I have made a mural on my wall of them.

Wardad

July 10th, 2003, 12:44 AM

The 5 1/2" were Sloppy Floppies.
The 3 1/4" are Hard Floppies.

Loser

July 10th, 2003, 12:51 AM

Havn't heard much from you, or your sock, in a while. Nothing to say about the thread implosion?

Oh, and I think you have the fractions mixed up.

Wardad

July 10th, 2003, 01:07 AM

Hello Loser,

I have been busy. If it's not overtime, then it is vacation time.

Take care.

minipol

July 10th, 2003, 01:19 AM

Originally posted by Wardad:
The 5 1/2" were Sloppy Floppies.
The 3 1/4" are Hard Floppies.As loser says it's 5 1/4" and 3 1/2". I found the 5 1/4" funny, you could literally throw them down the room, they would stil work.
I tried it once with a 3 1/2", well, they aren't as "flexible" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Erax

July 10th, 2003, 04:14 AM

Thanks, everybody. I ended up using the Simulator to test boarding ships vs. MC ships. Works like a charm.

Fyron

July 10th, 2003, 09:37 AM

Play it yourself or don't play with it at all?That would be a little hypocritical, don't you think? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I have only played with religious once or twice back when I first got the game (checking out all the traits and such). Never have I used it in a PBW game, and I never will (well, not in unmodded form, maybe in Adamant, as it is more balanced there...).

But seriously, what kind of fix would you recommend? Is making it cost more enough? Is making it less effective enough? What about making the ship easier to hit? I think canning the 100% to hit would be the best idea. Nothing should ever give you a guaranteed 100% chance to hit. A large combat bonus is tolerable (large enough to make a difference, but not large enough to make it 99% to hit). Or perhaps make it into a mount (still not with 100% or 99% to hit though), so you can not use it in conjunction with the heavy/massive weapon mounts. Tradeoffs are always a good thing.

[ July 10, 2003, 08:39: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Rojero

July 10th, 2003, 10:02 AM

quote:Originally posted by Wardad:
The 5 1/2" were Sloppy Floppies.
The 3 1/4" are Hard Floppies.

As loser says it's 5 1/4" and 3 1/2". I found the 5 1/4" funny, you could literally throw them down the room, they would stil work.
I tried it once with a 3 1/2", well, they aren't as "flexible" Wow you guys had those? hehe I had the old commodore Vic 20 with a drive reader that was a tape recorder!
That took FOREVER to load!

[ July 10, 2003, 09:02: Message edited by: Rojero ]

Me Loonn

July 10th, 2003, 12:50 PM

A better source than FAQ for SEIV info can be found here (http://www.invirtuo.cc/phpwiki/index.php/master%20computer).
Hmm...
Some code is misselled on that page or something.
Well, only refressh the page and it works fine.

1FSTCAT

July 11th, 2003, 10:05 PM

Well, since we've gone off on a Talisman tangent, why not make the Talisman cost supplies? If it ate 200 supplies a turn, just to be installed on a ship, that would be a trade-off, wouldn't it?

--Ed

Fyron

July 11th, 2003, 10:23 PM

Yes, but not much of one. It would essentially just make it 70 kT, as you would add a solar collector to offset that.

Loser

July 14th, 2003, 02:36 PM

I like the idea of making the Talisman make ships easier to hit. Or make the thing terribly expensive, as that will inflict cost during construction but also cost during usage.

Hell, you could make the thing make every ship in the fleet easier to hit, every ship in the system if you wanted to. It is possible to penalize the Talisman, but will that ever balance it?

geoschmo

July 14th, 2003, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by minipol:
As loser says it's 5 1/4" and 3 1/2". I found the 5 1/4" funny, you could literally throw them down the room, they would stil work.
I tried it once with a 3 1/2", well, they aren't as "flexible" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif I jumped in the pool once and forgot I had a 3 1/2" floppy in my pocket. I had to do a transplant to another case because once the little paper filters get wet the media can't turn freely anymore. But suprisingly the data was recoverable.

Even so I check my pockets just to be sure... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Geoschmo

oleg

July 14th, 2003, 09:54 PM

Originally posted by geoschmo:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by minipol:
As loser says it's 5 1/4" and 3 1/2". I found the 5 1/4" funny, you could literally throw them down the room, they would stil work.
I tried it once with a 3 1/2", well, they aren't as "flexible" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif I jumped in the pool once and forgot I had a 3 1/2" floppy in my pocket. I had to do a transplant to another case because once the little paper filters get wet the media can't turn freely anymore. But suprisingly the data was recoverable.

Even so I check my pockets just to be sure... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Geoschmo<hr /></blockquote>That's nothing to the hazards of my occupation - it involves 600MHz NMR spectrometer. Any kind of magnetic media inside 1.5m is erased. My bank should charge me extra for all credit cards it had to replace http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif And yes, I once had to reload some Atrocities' shipsets because I had the Zipdisk with me while loading samples http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Fyron

July 14th, 2003, 09:55 PM

Well it is just a magnetized piece of metal after all. Why would water damage that? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Loser, no. It is not really possible to ever truly balance a 100% guarantee.

Phoenix-D

July 14th, 2003, 09:59 PM

Fyron, if everyone else had a to-hit of 99%, the Talisman wouldn't be unbalanced. 1%. Whoopdido. It is possible to balance, just tricky (since the nastier the opponents ECM, the better the Talisman gets in comparison to combat sensors)

Erax

July 14th, 2003, 10:42 PM

Make it bigger. Around 200 kT, off the top of my head. That way you trade weapon space for that 100% chance to hit.

Fyron

July 14th, 2003, 10:50 PM

Or better, make it a mount so that you do not get every advantage. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Fyron

July 14th, 2003, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
Fyron, if everyone else had a to-hit of 99%, the Talisman wouldn't be unbalanced. 1%. Whoopdido. It is possible to balance, just tricky (since the nastier the opponents ECM, the better the Talisman gets in comparison to combat sensors)It is possible to balance it in some situations, but there will still be situations in which it is extremeley unbalanced.

The scenario where everyone has a 99% to hit is technically balanced, but is a very bad situation to set up as it makes the game even more of a statistical calculation instead of having random chance as a factor.