Message to TDM race designers [Archive]

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Samurai99

July 18th, 2003, 04:49 AM

Hi,

First off, you guys are great. The TDM races are terrific.

Two important observations I've made:

1) It doesn't seem any of the races build anywhere near enough baseships in the later stages of games. I'm running roughshod over AI fleets because I have a lot of baseships. I believe some of the races don't even have pictures for baseships, though I haven't looked at them in a while.

2) Some of the races build waves and waves of fighters on their planets, but unfortunately they are loaded out with Ground Cannon. This makes them really weak against planet-invasion fleets.
Two races I clearly remember doing this are the Praetorian and the Jraenar. Maybe some other races also do this.

It would be really great if you guys could address these issues.

Thanks for all you've done so far.

TerranC

July 18th, 2003, 05:19 AM

Originally posted by Samurai99:
2) Some of the races build waves and waves of fighters on their planets, but unfortunately they are loaded out with Ground Cannon.I'm no TDM AI designer, but I can tell you one thing: that's impossible. Ground Cannons are only available on troops.

Perhaps you're confusing DUCs with Ground Cannons?

Master Belisarius

July 18th, 2003, 05:20 AM

Originally posted by Samurai99:
Hi,

First off, you guys are great. The TDM races are terrific.

Two important observations I've made:

1) It doesn't seem any of the races build anywhere near enough baseships in the later stages of games. I'm running roughshod over AI fleets because I have a lot of baseships. I believe some of the races don't even have pictures for baseships, though I haven't looked at them in a while.

2) Some of the races build waves and waves of fighters on their planets, but unfortunately they are loaded out with Ground Cannon. This makes them really weak against planet-invasion fleets.
Two races I clearly remember doing this are the Praetorian and the Jraenar. Maybe some other races also do this.

It would be really great if you guys could address these issues.

Thanks for all you've done so far.Thanks!
About the BA, well, I think currently the only AI for the stock game that use BA, are the Tessellate (I'm ashamed).
I will include BA for the Aquilaeian, but I'm not sure about the Pyrochette...
Anyway, still never received any input, about how the Tessellate's BA performed playing against humans... my experience testing them with other AIs, was that the crystalline armor is very good (and cheap!) using it in massive numbers.

Samurai99

July 18th, 2003, 06:37 AM

To Belisarius: It's been my experience the Tessellate do build baseships, but only in limited numbers. They build lots of dreadnoughts (very powerful, very well-designed -- my compliments.) One other note, I find the mini pictures of Tessellate fighers disorienting: it often looks like they're flying upside down or sideways.

To TerranC: I don't dispute what you're saying. However, at the time I could have sworn they were Ground Cannon. I wish I had a saved game I could check. But in looking at the unit design section, it's also possible I mistook Ground Cannon for Phased Polaron Beams -- the pictures are quite similar. At any rate, these fighters are *extremely weak.* I was taking out literally hundreds with just a handfull of dreadnoughts and/or battlecruisers. By contrast, I was losing these same ships to large numbers of United Floral fighters.

So I guess the bottom line is that I'm hoping some of the TDM guys can try to beef up their fighter designs.

[ July 18, 2003, 16:43: Message edited by: Samurai99 ]

Master Belisarius

July 18th, 2003, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by Samurai99:
To Belisarius: It's been my experience the Tessellate do build baseships, but only in limited numbers. They build lots of dreadnoughts (very powerful, very well-designed -- my compliments.)
Thanks for the compliment!
But the Tessellate will build ONLY BA, if first you kill their DN ships!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Yea... the AI doesn't scrap ships to replace old designes (just scrap when believe is out of resources), and then after reach the limit of ships that can build (based on his number of planets) only will build more if first lose ships...

Originally posted by Samurai99:

One other note, I find the mini pictures of Tessellate fighers disorienting: it often looks like they're flying upside down or sideways.
Hehe, maybe it's a tactic to make trouble! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Seriously, I never had this problem... because always play simultaneous (even against the AI).

[ July 18, 2003, 16:08: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

Fyron

July 18th, 2003, 08:19 PM

My only complaint is the poor artwork with the Vikings - I hope that they get upgraded at some point. They are meant to have a hand-drawn look to them.

TerranC

July 18th, 2003, 08:23 PM

Originally posted by Thantis:
My only complaint is the poor artwork with the Vikings - I hope that they get upgraded at some point.What's wrong with the Vikings? I think it's a nice and original break from those run-of-the-mill 3D shipsets.

Loser

July 19th, 2003, 01:15 AM

Originally posted by Samurai99:
...these fighters are *extremely weak.* I was taking out literally hundreds with just a handfull of dreadnoughts and/or battlecruisers. By contrast, I was losing these same ships to large numbers of United Floral fighters.I do not have the exact numbers in front of me, but the Fighter Weapons exclusively available to Organic races outdo all other Fighter Weapons but a great deal. They're really incredible and something one must take advantage of if one is playing an Organic race. This is probably the reason for the disparity you noticed.

[edit: oh yeah, and I'd like to add my appreciation for the TDM races to that already expressed by M. 99. TDM, its contents and its creators all rock like a station wagon parked on a metropolitan overlook.]

[edit: minor sig change test]

[ July 20, 2003, 19:20: Message edited by: Loser ]

Thantis

July 19th, 2003, 01:45 AM

I absolutely love the TDM upgrades & races. They really give me a run my for money on a regular basis.

In my current game, the AI opened up four new warp points into my core systems & proceeded to flood the area with superdreadnoughts. I'm still in the process of containing that little mess.

My only complaint is the poor artwork with the Vikings - I hope that they get upgraded at some point.

deccan

July 21st, 2003, 06:05 AM

Are the Tessellate part of the standard TDM distribution or are they a separate download?

Fyron

July 21st, 2003, 06:33 AM

Weren't they made after the Last Version of TDM was released?

Master Belisarius

July 21st, 2003, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Weren't they made after the Last Version of TDM was released?Yes. They will be in the next TDM Version (thanks Mephisto!).
Then, the only way to get them is here:

Tessellate update AI to 1.0: Tesellate Version 1 Update.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1055630473.zip)

Tessellate Complete 1.0 Version: Tessellate Version 1 Complete Files.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1055630817.zip)

oleg

July 21st, 2003, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by Loser:
[QUOTE]...I do not have the exact numbers in front of me, but the Fighter Weapons exclusively available to Organic races outdo all other Fighter Weapons but a great deal. They're really incredible and something one must take advantage of if one is playing an Organic race. This is probably the reason for the disparity you noticed.

I don't think so. smal TKP (physhic weapon) is as good as small electric discharge. But the best fighter weapon by far is small time distortion bLasts. Especially in late game when ships have 1000+ shielding.

Loser

July 21st, 2003, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by oleg:
I don't think so. smal TKP (physhic weapon) is as good as small electric discharge. But the best fighter weapon by far is small time distortion bLasts. Especially in late game when ships have 1000+ shielding.I'd need to see damage and tonnage. I think, though I need the numbers to be sure, that the Small Electric Discharge has a lower mass, and that's the reason it's better than the Small Telekinetic Projector.

You do have a point about the Small Time Distortion Burst, but by that point in the game your opponent will have noticed your affection for fighters and his ships will have many PDC.

[edit: specifically I believe the SED puts out four-fifths the damage that the STKD does, but at three-quarters the mass.]

[ July 21, 2003, 16:52: Message edited by: Loser ]

oleg

July 21st, 2003, 05:58 PM

Yes, but fighters are not ships - smaller size does not allow you to pack more weapons. You may be able to put extra armor. I think small TKP fits better to space restrictions.