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  #1  
Old March 2nd, 2016, 01:03 PM
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Default Lessons Learned from the Rus - Ukr war

Some observations on the war in Ukraine.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bws...vNWNCdVFB/view


The author claims

- the APC/IFV is too vulnerable.
- Ukr infantry often attacks dismounted, or sometimes split up squads into two APCs/IFVs to reduce losses causing higher strain on support services.
- Modern Main Battle Tanks have enough protection against the majority of inf-ATGM/RPG type weapons to again be King of the Battlefild. ("Yom Kippur reversed").
- Russians use massive amounts of drones in combination with heavy artillery strikes. Low reaction times before arty strike. Russian arty supposedly killed of two Ukr Mech Inf Bn's at Zellenopillya within a few minutes(?)
- Ukranian fighting morale not broken despite setbacks and lack of modern gear...
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Old March 2nd, 2016, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: Lessons Learned from the Rus - Ukr war

Sort of confirms what I'd always suspected about IFV's in general. Thanks for this, Wulfir.
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Old March 2nd, 2016, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: Lessons Learned from the Rus - Ukr war

With the proliferation of cheap infantry AT weapons (LAAW, RPG) most APC/IFVs have even less business on the front lines then they did when 37mm AT guns were commonplace.
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Old September 29th, 2017, 05:31 PM
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Potion Re: Lessons Learned from the Rus - Ukr war

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suhiir View Post
With the proliferation of cheap infantry AT weapons (LAAW, RPG) most APC/IFVs have even less business on the front lines then they did when 37mm AT guns were commonplace.
In the game, I have used IFVs: Bradleys and LAV's with success due to the short range of Inf-ATMs, thereby allowing the 25mm cannon on the IFV to hit Inf-ATMs with impunity.

This is true in Soviet era and updated Russian BTG tactics with the use of organic MLRS and FA guns laying down concentrated "fire strikes" in front of advancing mechanized forces.

This works in the game as well. See Pyro's discussion on artillery supporting advancing infantry.

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Old September 29th, 2017, 10:21 PM
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Default Re: Lessons Learned from the Rus - Ukr war

Quote:
Originally Posted by shahadi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suhiir View Post
With the proliferation of cheap infantry AT weapons (LAAW, RPG) most APC/IFVs have even less business on the front lines then they did when 37mm AT guns were commonplace.
In the game, I have used IFVs: Bradleys and LAV's with success due to the short range of Inf-ATMs, thereby allowing the 25mm cannon on the IFV to hit Inf-ATMs with impunity.
Assuming you have an infantry screen, or for some reason can see the AT units, yes, but in most situations when you're going from A to B your first indication AT weapons are present is one of your APC/IFVs blowing up.
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Old September 29th, 2017, 10:50 PM
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Potion Re: Lessons Learned from the Rus - Ukr war

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suhiir View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by shahadi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suhiir View Post
With the proliferation of cheap infantry AT weapons (LAAW, RPG) most APC/IFVs have even less business on the front lines then they did when 37mm AT guns were commonplace.
In the game, I have used IFVs: Bradleys and LAV's with success due to the short range of Inf-ATMs, thereby allowing the 25mm cannon on the IFV to hit Inf-ATMs with impunity.
Assuming you have an infantry screen, or for some reason can see the AT units, yes, but in most situations when you're going from A to B your first indication AT weapons are present is one of your APC/IFVs blowing up.
Read my post completely. Specifically, laying down artillery fires in front of advancing mech formations.

You should not advance more than 3 - 7 hexes a turn after an artillery barrage. With each end of and begining of turn have the leading elements scan ahead of the formation.

Lay your fires one after another on each sucessive turn in front of your mech formation. See Pyros' tutorial.

Additionally, each turn run UAV spotting runs.

An Inf-ATM may get off a shot, but it will be errant due to suppressive effects of the "fire strikes." Once exposed, he will die or tun tail and run following tank gun, auto canon, and arillery reaction fires.

Keep your logistics train close to keep the MLRS and FA guns loaded.

Possible con is the potential for artillery overload.


Last edited by shahadi; September 29th, 2017 at 10:58 PM..
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Old September 30th, 2017, 06:52 AM
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Default Re: Lessons Learned from the Rus - Ukr war

Quote:
Originally Posted by shahadi View Post
Specifically, laying down artillery fires in front of advancing mech formations.

Additionally, each turn run UAV spotting runs.
All well and fine if you have virtually unlimited artillery and/or ammo and opposition AA is relatively ineffective (or you have a LOT of UAVs).

I was thinking mostly about average situations.
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Old March 2nd, 2016, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: Lessons Learned from the Rus - Ukr war

And people moaned that CM artillery is to powerful. This is similar to how I thought US Cavalry formations are supposed to operate. Decimate the opposition with artillery & the ground units stop what makes it through.
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Old March 2nd, 2016, 09:17 PM
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Default Re: Lessons Learned from the Rus - Ukr war

Quote:
Originally Posted by wulfir View Post
Some observations on the war in Ukraine.

the APC/IFV is too vulnerable.
Well, what do you expect when all you have is BMP-2s (14.3 tonnes) and BTR-70/80s (13.6 tonnes) in quantity?

Essentially anything can puncture them.
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Old March 3rd, 2016, 05:46 AM

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Default Re: Lessons Learned from the Rus - Ukr war

I remember when some military expert said in Finnish TV interview 2014 that "it's impossible deal with 80's equipment against modern 2010's equipment"... I think that the greatest error what Ukraine did is going back to T-64 type tanks from T-80 types (during 90's). Just because costs of tank support. And same thing with APC's too. Sad but true.
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