Will there be a Dominions 4 - Page 9

Gandalf Parker · #81 November 19th, 2010, 07:14 PM

Ive tracked, and still track, many efforts at recreating games. I will give you one tip that I have become quite convinced of. Try very very hard toward recreating the original first.

Ive seen some make it, and Ive seen many fail. And the failures all tend to go too far toward "improving" the game. They end up mired in the changes.

IF someone were to recreate Dom3 from scratch using a modern programming language and libraries then it would be a great start. IF some things that were not considered needed in the original and could not easily be added later such as a database structure, categories, expansive parameters, were included then the size that the game has grown to would not be a problem and would not get in the way of further growth.

IF the game was recreated from scratch and each variable was also builtin as a hook for external scripting then it would allow for expansion. AND (my favorite) IF every choice of speed over better AI was not chopped but was instead set off to a choice switch it would allow for longer hosting times when better results are desired (such as hosting).

THEN and only then should any conversation about changes occur. When a duplicate game has been created from scratch with future desired changes in mind and the code is written to allow those but not implemented. THEN a Dom4 project might be tackled.

Of course this is all just speculation and a pitch Ive given many games. The chances of this happening (legally) with Dom3 are very slim.

TheConway · #82 November 19th, 2010, 07:50 PM

Is there any reason they can't just release most of the game as mod commands? That would go a long way towards freshening up the game w/o requiring any work from the developers.

Gandalf Parker · #83 November 19th, 2010, 07:51 PM

uhhh they did. Much of the additions patched into Dom3 since its release was in modding. As far as I know, much of what is accessable by a command within the game is a switch, map, or mod command

TheConway · #84 November 19th, 2010, 07:52 PM

Yes, but there are still numerous aspects that are unmoddable, ESPECIALLY item modding.

Gandalf Parker · #85 November 19th, 2010, 07:57 PM

As far as I know, thats usually a sign that it cant be easily latched to a mod command.

Zeldor · #86 November 20th, 2010, 05:46 AM

Well, just recreating would be of course illegal.

Doing similar game would be challenging at least.

And I think that most people don't realize how expensive it would be. I don't think you could go below $500k for any reasonable graphics. And it's not something you can just throw on volunteers.

Gandalf Parker · #87 November 20th, 2010, 12:01 PM

It can be done. Ive seen some great remakes come out of SourceForge.net

And some of my favorite MMORPG games now can be run on private servers using player-made recreations of the software. (of course those re-use the graphics and such so its only half a win)

But it would be a huge project. And not likely to be profitable. And OMG the stress! Can you picture every argument we have had here being resurrected as part of a project like this?

Zeldor · #88 November 20th, 2010, 03:11 PM

Why not profitable? Dominion is great, but it has very bad UI, bad graphics and too much complexity. Of course we would not want less complexity, but you can always make 2 modes.

How many project out of sourceforge really get done? 1%? When it comes to 3d games it's probably even way less. And then you accept to have extremely long production cycle, many distractions [everyone has different vision] etc. I don't believe in project like that at all - and I have been involved in some really ambitious.

Gandalf Parker · #89 November 20th, 2010, 04:27 PM

The amount that would have to be put in versus the amount that could be made?
The more "fix" the less profit.

As for SourceForge and 1%, yes you have that pegged. But like I say often, everything has its pros and cons. The idea of open source and program by democracy are wonderful concepts. There are some fantastic success stories. But most dissolve or just fade out from in-group bickering.

Also against going that route is the idea that this projects goal would be to update Dominions. The more people, and the more discussion, the longer it takes to get things done. And time is why Dom is the way it is now that this project wants to fix. By the time an open source project for a Dom4 got done, the "updated UI, graphics and sound" would be as old-hat as Dom3 seemed when it came out. (not for the same reason, but the same symptom would occur)

I think Im an optimist and I love Dom. But I cant feel that what it would take to drive such a project thru in good time would be able to recoup the costs. There are a number of different routes that could be pursued (paying developers, or a big-boy style publisher willing to advance-invest, or both by letting someone with development studios and teams in place take it over) but I cant picture an improved Dom3 or even a Dom4 being a guaranteed result. It would be a gamble to break even.

Just my opinions of course.

weimaar · #90 November 21st, 2010, 09:05 AM

sounds all very reasonable and well thought through. Gandalf, may i ask what you do for a living? Would you want to become the head of a dom4 (dom3 with graphics makover, the way you describe it) project? Can you become the head of a dom4 project?

Woud it be possible to run this part time project based on donations? One can buy different part of the engine perhaps from other games? or use it from other games? Or ask of permission to get it from other sourceforge games?